asked the Minister of Works whether, in view of the delays which will be involved in acquiring premises in the Bridge Street area for the future use of this House through the medium of the planning powers of the London County Council, he will proceed instead by special Act of Parliament.

While my present view is that little or no time would be saved by special legislation, I would be prepared to consider it later if it appears advantageous.

Would the hon. Gentleman, when he thinks again about this matter, bear in mind the history of such legislation? I believe that until the London County Council was in being, this Parliament always proceeded by special Act in order to increase its precincts. The hon. Gentleman may remember that Parliament Square was altered by special Act in 1949. I am advised that the deliberations in the London County Council might well take up to three years. Above all, will the hon. Gentleman think about the dignity of this House? Generally speaking, this House should plan the precincts around it and not necessarily leave that matter to a special committee of a local authority?

Of course, all these factors will be taken into account, but whichever way we do it there must inevitably be a lot of other people to be considered. Whatever we do, it will take time.

Will the hon. Gentleman bring this suggestion before the ad hoc Committee which, I understand, the Government have agreed to set up to pilot through this new development in our accommodation so that the Committee can decide which procedure it thinks would be advantageous to the interests of the House?

That is rather a quick one. I will certainly think it over. I doubt whether it will be right to put this point to that Committee.

asked the Minister of Works whether he will have plans and models prepared setting out his ultimate objectives for the future development of buildings for the use of Members of this House.

asked the Minister of Works whether he will place in the Library copies of his plans for making additional secretarial accommodation available under the roof of the Palace of Westminster.

I hope to exhibit a model, plans and other particulars of the scheme for providing additional accommodation in the roof space over the Committee Rooms after the Easter recess. In due course, I will also provide information about long-term proposals for providing additional accommodation for hon. Members, but I cannot yet say when I shall be in a position to do this.

While I thank the Minister for that Answer, may I ask him how, after having exhibited the plans or drawings, he proposes to take the sense of the House on this matter? Are we to set up a committee within the House itself to advise the Minister, or does the right hon. Gentleman think that, after all, the Commissioners as envisaged by the Stokes Committee would have been the best means for us to adopt?

I think the answer to the hon. Gentleman lies in the undertaking which my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House gave during the debate, to discuss with Mr. Speaker and through the usual channels the best method of enabling the House to express its view. This committee will be set up, and I think it will be the one to consider the matter.

Will the right hon. Gentleman use his influence with his right hon. Friend to ensure that the committee is set up immediately after the Easter Recess.

I am sure that note will be taken of the hon. Lady's words.

asked the Minister of Works what steps he is taking to provide additional accommodation for the research department of the House of Commons Library.

I have received no requests from the authorities of the House to provide additional accommodation for this department.

Is the Minister satisfied that two rooms and a typist's table are sufficient to meet the research needs of 630 Members of Parliament?

The hon. Gentleman should put his point to the authorities of the House.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Presumably the Table passed my hon. Friend's Question, and if the Table passes a Question it is assumed that the Minister takes responsibility for it. The right hon. Gentleman answered the Question, but he can hardly run off on a supplementary question with the idea that, although the original Question was properly asked, the supplementary question was not one for him. During the debate referred to the right hon. Gentleman opened on this subject.

The Minister may be right or wrong, but I do not think his error is a point of order for me.

I hope I am right, Mr. Speaker.

asked the Minister of Works when he expects to be able to provide a filing cabinet for each Member supplied with a desk.

I supply filing cabinets at the request of the authorities of the House, who are responsible for their allocation. Twenty cabinets were provided last month and a further fifty are now on order for delivery in about six weeks' time.

Who is the authority in this respect to whom an hon. Member can apply?

The hon. Gentleman would find that his best method would be to apply to the Serjeant at Arms, who acts for Mr. Speaker in these matters.

But the Serjeant at Arms and the Deputy Serjeant at Arms do not answer Questions in the House. Is it not a fact that the Minister is able to take refuge behind this fact when he has failed to meet the needs of hon. Members? Ought we not to alter the system, as we proposed in the recent debate, and instead have a House of Commons Commission, the vice-chairman of which could answer such Questions as these in the House?

I do not think it necessarily follows that that is the best method. There are ways of getting these points aired. The hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Mr. Hayman) has found an admirable way of doing it, and other hon. Members can use the same method.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that I at any rate do not want either a desk or a filing cabinet? Is he aware that this attempt to increase the accommodation for hon. Members is nothing more than a ramp on the part of the Left wing to inflate its importance at the public expense?

No, Sir; I regret that I cannot agree with my hon. Friend's opinion, but there is no need at all for him to have anything that he does not want.

Will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that one of the fifty filing cabinets is sent to the women's room so that we can at least keep our filing up to date, if not our education?

I rather thought that there was ample filing accommodation in the Ladies' Room already from what I have heard.

asked the Minister of Works when he last reviewed the problem of acoustics in the Chamber and Upstairs Committee Rooms of the House of Commons; and if he will make a statement.

Reviews have just been completed of the acoustics in the House of Commons Chamber and in Committee Room No. 14. I am satisfied that in the Chamber the amplification system works well.

No.

Hon. Members have heard perfectly well what I said or they would not have made that interruption.

Is not the real trouble mumbling Ministers?

Is the Minister aware that from the bench where I sit it is impossible to hear my hon. Friends the Members for South Ayrshire (Mr. Emrys Hughes), Oldham, West (Mr. Hale) and Nelson and Colne (Mr. S. Silverman)? [An HON. MEMBER: "YOU are lucky."] In view of the technical advances in reproduction which permit one to have high fidelity in the home, is it too much to ask that we should at least have good reproduction in the House? Has the right hon. Gentleman consulted the medical profession about the effect on the health of hon. Members through the appalling posture which they have to adopt, with one ear by the amplifier in the bench behind them and one eye on the hon. Member who is speaking? While we welcome the news that the Minister is taking the opportunity to look at conditions in Committee Room 14, will he also have a look at Committee Rooms 10 and 11, where some hon. Members have difficulty in hearing the proceedings in Standing Committee?

I will certainly consider the difficulties in the other Committee Rooms to which the hon. Member refers. With regard to this Chamber, I do not, seriously, believe that any hon. Member really thinks that if hon. Members spoke up they would not be heard everywhere.

Would the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the advantage of not being able to hear speeches is one of which some of us would not willingly be deprived? Will he tell us who are the Officers of the House to whom he must refer questions relating to acoustics or Library accommodation, where they are to be found, and what he is paid for?

I do not want to waste the time of the House. The hon. Gentleman will find that question amply dealt with by myself and others during the debate on accommodation.

With regard to the Committee Rooms upstairs, is it not a fact that the Press has very little difficulty in hearing what goes on?

asked the Minister of Works if he will consider removing the statue of George Washington from its site near the National Gallery to a site nearer Westminster.

No, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that American visitors to this country do not understand why George Washington, the man who never told a lie, is kept so far from Westminster, and would he consider removing the statue nearer Downing Street or the Foreign Office so that their inhabitants might get inspiration at moments of difficulty?

I think that on the whole it is probably better to leave Washington where he is. He is only a little way down the road from George III, who has, in fact, turned his back on him.

asked the Minister of Works what provision is made to deal with fire hazards in the lifts of the House of Commons.

In general the lifts and the lift shafts are constructed of fire-resisting or non-combustible material and I am advised that the fire hazards are negligible.

Does that apply to the older lifts as well as the newer lifts? Will the right hon. Gentleman at the same time take into account that smoking in the lifts, although it may not be a fire hazard, makes it very uncomfortable for some hon. Members who have respiratory complaints?

I am sure the House will have listened to the last point made by the hon. Member, which is perhaps not quite one for me. With regard to the condition of some of the older lifts, it is true that one or two of them contain some timber, but even these have a two-hour fire resistance. It would certainly, I think, be desirable to get them all up to the highest standard.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress is being made in the field of cancer research; and to what extent his Department is assisting this work.

Research is, of course, proceeding in many parts of the world, and findings are published in the professional journals. Primary concern in Scotland, as elsewhere in Great Britain, rests with the Medical Research Council under the auspices of my noble Friend the Minister for Science. Much useful research work is, however, also done in the ordinary course of hospital services financed by my Department, or with support from the Scottish Hospital Endowments Research Trust.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House if the results of cancer research in America are made known to his Department? Is he aware that there is very considerable disquiet in Scotland about the degree of charity upon which cancer research depends? Does he not think that it is time he took personal responsibility for helping to find a cure for this dreadful malignancy?

The findings of all research work published in professional journals are carefully studied by the responsible officers of my Department. I can assure the hon. Member that no worth-while research project in Scotland need be frustrated by lack of funds, which can be made available from a number of sources.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the number of air-raid shelters still standing in Scotland, with particular regard to the City of Aberdeen; if he is aware that many of them are insanitary, are eyesores, occupy ground needed for drying greens and playgrounds and block out natural light; and if he will state Government policy relating to them, and take steps to have them removed.

Approximately 14,300 shelters are still in existence in Scotland, including about 2,750 in the City of Aberdeen for which the Corporation is responsible.

As a general principle, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that in this nuclear age these contraptions are no longer shelters but, on the contrary, are dangerous because they harbour hostile germs which are a danger to the population? Will he take steps to have removed those that are left, for the reasons indicated in my Question?

No, Sir. I could not agree with the first point in that supplementary question. Some shelter is better than none. Outside a devastated area these shelters could give useful protection against radioactive fall-out.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he has taken during the last 10 years to survey the structural and topographical suitabilities for their present purposes of Her Majesty's prisons in Scotland; and if he will now make a detailed report on them, indicating Government policy with regard to them.

The facilities available for the detention of offenders are kept under constant review, and an intensive scheme of modernisation and expansion to meet present day requirements is in progress. I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT a note of the changes made and in contemplation.

Again as a matter of principle, does the Secretary of State agree that these old-fashioned prisons make it very difficult for the governors, warders and prison reformers to carry out the ideals of the present age, and that these prisons are so out of date that they should be quickly changed into modern buildings?

I am always wary about answering a supplementary question covering wide general principles. If the hon. and learned Gentleman will study the details which I am circulating he will realise that progress is being made.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will extend the range of awards available to Scottish students wishing to undertake post-graduate study or other forms of further training in England and abroad.

I intend to review this matter in the light of the Report of the Committee on Grants to Students, which is expected shortly.

I thank the Secretary of State for that reply, but may I ask whether he will bear in mind two very serious weaknesses of the present system of post-graduate awards which enable Scottish students to study in England or abroad? First, there are many subjects in which no awards are given. It is easy to get an award to study classics outside Scotland but very difficult—almost impossible—to get an award for medicine, science, technology or economics. The second weakness is that a student requires a first-class honours degree or a very good second in order to qualify for a post-graduate award to study in England or abroad. This excludes many people who would benefit from post-graduate work of a slightly less academic type, such as social work or teacher training.

I will carefully note what the hon. Member has said, but I think he will agree that we should await the Report of the Committee on Grants to Students to which I have referred.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will consult with the Scottish chief constables, with a view to introducing legislation to establish a regional crime squad, to be made available to police forces throughout Scotland.

I understand that Glasgow and certain neighbouring forces are considering the establishment of a small squad to operate throughout their areas, and I very much welcome this example of co-operation between police forces which does not require legislation. Consideration of the possible extension of local arrangements on these lines is a matter for the chief constables concerned.

Would the right hon. Gentleman state that any further extension would probably have his co-operation, because the object of the extension would be to recruit the best professional skill that we have in Scotland for the purpose of criminal detection?

Certainly, when we have some experience of this scheme study would be given to the possibilities of extension.

The right hon. Gentleman's Department set up a central criminal register for Scotland which seemed to go part of the way towards the establishment of this department, for which some of us have been asking for some time. Could not the right hon. Gentleman go further and not leave it to his chief constables but himself take action in this matter and make this force available to any part of Scotland?

That is another question. I remind the House that the basis of British policing is local organisation. The larger forces are always ready to assist the smaller, and I do not think that a change of the kind the hon. Member is suggesting is very desirable. It would require a very great deal of thought.

Will the proposal to set up a central C.I.D. for Scotland be within the purview of the Royal Commission?

I should like notice of that supplementary question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now review his previous policy and approve the granting of licences by licensing magistrates in areas where hitherto he has permitted only State public houses to exist.

No, Sir. The considerations before the licensing court in dealing with an application for a certificate and before me in considering an application under Section 82 (1) (b) of the Licensing (Scotland) Act, 1959, are not identical.

Is it not quite fantastic that a member of the present Government should ask this House on repeated occasions to re-enact this Socialist Measure against the wishes of both the licensing magistrates and the local authority?

I think my hon. Friend is raising the whole question of the future of State management districts, which is not one I can deal with properly in question and answer.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that State beer is cheaper than private enterprise beer?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many applications he has received for Improvement Orders, and how many he has made, arising from the Land Drainage (Scotland) Act, 1958.

Ninety-six applications for improvement orders have been received. Of these twenty-eight have been withdrawn by the applicants. One order has been made and the remaining sixty-seven applications are at various stages of consideration.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this Act is quite inadequate to meet many of the flooding and drainage problems throughout Scotland? It applies only to agricultural land and excludes the prevention of flooding where other subjects are involved, such as factories or residential property. Could he give any hope that he will take the bit in his teeth and bring forward some legislation so that we can attempt to remove many of the flood problems?

It is too early to pass judgment on the operation of the Act. The other matters raised by the hon. Member go far outside this question. I am considering the possibility of legislation to deal with some parts of the problem.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will consider amending the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1936, to provide for the granting of large burgh status to new towns on their attaining a population of 30,000 without the necessity of their promoting a provisional order.

No, Sir. I think that the amendment the hon. Lady has in mind would have to be to the Local Government (Scotland) Act, 1947. I would point out that the Jeffrey Committee, whose Report was the basis of that Act, took the view that questions arising in regard to the formation of a large burgh are so complicated and so important that the matter can be dealt with satisfactorily only by special legislation.

Would not the Secretary of State agree that there is a strong case for treating new towns, which have arisen as a result of deliberate action by the Government, in a rather different way from existing communities which seek to change the nature of their existing burgh status? Would he not also agree that the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1936, does make it possible for a new town to achieve large burgh status but only by rather elaborate machinery involving considerable cost? Will he look further into this matter from the point of view of the new towns in Scotland, which are so dissatisfied with their existing local government structure?

I am not entirely certain about the validity of the hon. Lady's remark that the new towns are all dissatisfied with the position. I would require further information about that. I have considered this general question and I do not think that questions which would arise in the case of a new town would be any less complicated or less important than in the case of a small burgh or other populous place. I would be reluctant to go beyond the recommendations of the Jeffrey Commission on this matter.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I will seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, since the work upon Peterhead Harbour, which has provided employment for 70 years, is now completed, to what extent he has considered using good conduct prisoners from Peterhead for other public works, including urgently needed repairs to harbours of refuge at Stonehaven and Gourdon in Kincardineshire and to the docks at Montrose.

At present prisoners at Peterhead are fully employed inside the prison, and for security reasons it would not be practicable to employ them on works outside the immediate vicinity of Peterhead.

Has my right hon. Friend had his attention called to a speech made in Glasgow by the Governor of Barlinnie Prison recently, in which he is reported to have said that many young men entering prison had never been in work since they left school? Would it not be a good thing to help them to find employment later on— which is the second point made by the Governor—if they could be given useful work while serving their term of imprisonment?

I have not had that article drawn to my attention, but I have noted what my hon. Friend has said.

I hope that the Secretary of State has noted that his hon. Friend thinks that the only way to get a job in Scotland is to go to prison.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in view of the greater amount of forest planting in Scotland compared to the rest of Great Britain, he will encourage the Forestry Commission to set up a research station in Scotland.

The Commission has a research sub-station in Edinburgh at present, which investigates forestry problems peculiar to Scotland and also taxes part in researches common to Great Britain. So far as I can judge, the existing Scottish needs are adequately catered for by these arrangements.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give an assurance that he will not refuse permission to any local authority wishing to make a contribution to the Lord Provost of Glasgow's Relief Fund for the dependants of the firemen who lost their lives in the recent disaster.

I have great sympathy with the thought behind the hon. Member's Question but he will appreciate that, being bound in relation to rate-borne contributions by the terms of Section 339 of the Local Government (Scotland) Act, 1947, it is not possible for me to give the assurance for which he asks. I am advised that the terms of Section 339 will allow me to approve contributions only if people living in the area of the authority concerned are going to be helped by the fund. I should add that, as I stated on 22nd February, I am in consultation with the local authority associations about the possibility of amending Section 339.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that that Answer will be taken as being miserable and mean and frustrating to many people in Scotland who want their local authorities to be associated with such a fund? The right hon. Gentleman has had time to move in this matter since the Auchengeich disaster. If it is his intention to introduce legislation, when will he do so? If not, will he allow facilities to a private Member who introduces such a Bill?

I do not accept for one moment that my Answer should be taken as being miserable or mean. It was an Answer stating the statutory position by which I am bound.

Then do something about it.

I have already been in consultation with the local authority associations about this matter, which is not something on which one should move without full discussion with the local authorities concerned.

Has not the time come when the Government should consider setting up a proper national fund? While we welcome all the generous donations which are made, they come in circumstances of spectacular loss, and there are many less spectacular incidents which bring as much hardship as the spectacular ones. Should we not cease to depend on charity and have some national way of dealing with these terrible disasters?

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that there are other disasters which do not attract the same emotional response throughout the country, but which produce equally deserving cases for help. The wider question of a national disaster fund is difficult and it is very doubtful whether there would be the response from individuals to a vague general fund which one gets with specific disasters.

Can the Secretary of State tell us how soon we can expect a decision from his consultations? Is he not aware that the Auchengeich disaster occurred at the beginning of October and that much ill-feeling was engendered by his decision, and that he has had since then time in which to make decisions and to amend the law?

I have not yet received replies from all the local authority associations concerned, but the hon. Lady will appreciate that the question of what can properly be put upon the rates is not simple, no matter how much one sympathises with the objective which various local authorities have in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is satisfied that adequate powers are possessed by his Department, or by local authorities, to enforce proposals made by firemasters for improved fire precautions and protection for life and property in their area; and if he will make a statement.

I have no general powers to enforce proposals made by firemasters for improved fire precautions and protection. Local authorities and Dean of Guild courts have powers of control over plans of new buildings; and local authorities will have additional powers extending to existing buildings when the new building code comes into force under the Building (Scotland) Act, 1959. In the particular case of factories, further powers will also be available to fire authorities and to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour when the relevant provisions of the Factories Act, 1959. come into operation.

Does not that Answer mean that at the moment there are no powers and have not been powers to see that suggested improvements are undertaken? Will the right hon. Gentleman go a little further and make inquiries of local authorities about who is the responsible official in their areas? Is he not aware that in some places it is the fire-master, in others it is the master of works, and in still others it is the police? Will he look into that aspect of the matter and clear it up?

As the hon. Gentleman obviously realises, the position is complex. The Dean of Guild courts have very clear powers in this respect. I will carefully think over what the hon. Gentleman has said.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, in view of the four recent disastrous fires at Hawick, he is satisfied with the standard of fire-fighting equipment of the Burgh; and if he will now consider the appointment of one or two permanent firemen to augment the voluntary force and to advise the mills in respect of their internal fire precaution arrangements.

The question of manpower and equipment for fire fighting in Hawick is primarily a matter for the South-Eastern Fire Area Joint Committee and I am discussing with the Committee the possibility of employing whole-time firemen in the Burgh. I understand that the Committee intends this year to replace some of the fire appliances there with more modern types which will nearly double the pumping capacity available. Manufacturers in the town have been reminded that the brigade is always available to give advice about fire precautions and I hope that they will take full advantage of this.

I thank my right hon. Friend fox his Answer. I hope that he has well in mind the full import of the anxiety in Hawick resulting from the last four serious fires in mills in that town. Will he ensure, so far as he is able, that the firemaster of the authority to which he has referred will take action as promptly as possible?

I think that my hon. Friend will realise from my Answer that I have this matter very much in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is aware that there is road-making plant lying idle and in Scotland ample labour; and whether he will use these for an attack on major road problems in Scotland.

I am aware that the civil engineering industry in Scotland could do more work on roads and I shall authorise that work as quickly as the necessary funds can be made available.

Is it not foolish to allow the lack of funds to stand in the way of employing thousands of people who are now unemployed in Lanarkshire where a great road from Edinburgh requires to be put into a proper condition? Is it not the case that much plant and civil engineering machinery is lying idle and rusting? Is it not sensible to put the idle men and machines to work and to see that funds are provided?

The right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the amount of employment given by modern road making is relatively small in relation to the capital expenditure involved. He will also appreciate that the funds available must be allocated without competing with other demands on national resources.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman regard a through-road between the Forth and Tay Bridges as commanding high priority in any new road programme which he proposes?

There is another Question on the Paper dealing with that.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland why he has withdrawn financial aid from the Scottish Milk Records Association; and whether, in view of the contribution made by milk recording to the efficiency of the dairy industry, he will restore the grant.

The decision, which was taken in 1955, to run down this grant progressively over a period of four years ending March, 1960, was in line with general Government policy that grants of this nature should provide an initial impetus for the activity concerned rather than give it permanent support.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in England and Northern Ireland grants are made for this purpose? Is he not aware that in the Rhins of Galloway the cost of milk recording has nearly doubled in the last few years, with the result that far fewer farmers are now recording? Will he have another look at the matter?

I cannot add to my reply. My hon. Friend will realise that the termination of this grant was discussed in 1955 and it was as a result of those discussions that it was decided to taper off the grant for four years and enable the Association to adjust itself to the new situation.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that certain Scottish counties are among the foremost in the world in their production of dairy produce and milk from tuberculosis-free herds? Surely he is not arguing that in this connection we should have a status lower than that of England or Northern Ireland. Surely we should retain what we have and not throw it away as though it were worth nothing.

The hon. Gentleman is quite wrong in interpreting my Answer in that way. The Answer does not affect the general record of T.T. production in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that recently in fairly close sequence there have been three serious fires in bonded warehouses in Glasgow with consequential loss of life and property; and, in view of these facts, if he will hold an inquiry to see what steps can be taken for the future protection of the public against such outbreaks, and what connection there is between them.

Yes, Sir. I fully appreciate the anxiety that has been caused by the three serious fires in warehouses in Glasgow in the past few weeks. The circumstances in which they occurred are still being investigated by the fire brigade and by the police, and a public inquiry will be held under the Fatal Accidents Inquiry (Scotland) Acts into the deaths that occurred in the course of the third fire. I shall review the position when the investigations and inquiry referred to have been completed.

The public inquiry which the right hon. Gentleman has indicated is not the type that I had in mind. Will he assure us that at the public inquiry which he has suggested there will be a full investigation into the causes of this fire, and any relation between it and the others? Will he also tell us whether methods of prevention, such as insulation, proper fire-fighting applicances, and so on, will be inquired into? Further, as we have the breathalyser for estimating the quantity of alcohol in the human body, will he say whether there is any instrument which will estimate the amount of alcohol vapour in a bonded warehouse?

As I said, the public inquiry to which I referred is under the Fatal Accidents (Inquiry) Scotland Acts, and it will take its course. I cannot dictate the course of that inquiry, and I think that it would be wise to wait for the result of that inquiry, and other inquiries to which I referred, before going into further detail on this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will indicate the total number of new students enrolled at the central institutions in Scotland for the sessions 1957–58 and 1958–59.

As the Answer consists of a table of figures, I shall, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I take it that the right hon. Gentleman has taken steps to ensure that in future the correct information is provided?

Yes. We have asked all the institutions concerned to prepare their figures in rather a different way in future.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland his reasons for not ordering a public inquiry into the proposed development of George Square, Edinburgh.

As I said in reply to the hon. Member for Edinburgh, Central (Mr. Oswald) on Friday, my reasons have been fully explained in published letters. I am sending copies of these letters to my hon. Friend.

I wish my right hon. Friend would be a little bit more forthcoming. Does he realise that there are misgivings, which are quite pronounced, in Edinburgh, and for a fair distance round about? He has stated that he has taken advice on this matter from his own technical experts. Will he give an assurance that he called in the technical and structural experts who are advising the National Trust in Scotland and other amenity societies, and that he gave the fullest consideration to their views?

If he looks at the letters I think my hon. Friend will realise that I have gone into this matter in great detail. I was, of course, in close consultation with my own technical officers after the meeting that I had with the amenity societies.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is satisfied that on the approach roads to the Forth Road Bridge, British Standard No. 340 kerbs are the best now available for visibility; and whether, before final decisions are made, tests will be carried through to ensure that those making for greatest visibility and safety are used.

British Standard No. 340 concerns itself with the size, shape, quality, strength and colour of precast concrete kerbs, channel edgings and quadrants, and any type of kerb must comply with it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that reply was most unsatisfactory? Is he aware that this bridge may be a very great hazard to people driving across it in fog? Is there any sensible reason why we should not have the greatest visibility possible? Is he prepared to look into the manufacture of kerbs personally to see that the best kerbs are provided, that there is the best visibility, and the greatest range of visibility, on this bridge and its approaches?

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman about the importance of visibility on this bridge. I emphasise that it is open to the highway authorities, to whom we must leave something in this matter, to provide kerbs of the type the right hon. Gentleman has in mind provided, if they decide to do so, the kerbs are in accordance with the specifications in other respects. We must leave some responsibility to the highway authorities in this matter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman saying that we are to endanger life that can be saved merely to save £54 a mile, which I understand is the extra cost of these visibility kerbs? Is he not prepared to appoint some authority to go into this to ensure that the maximum visibility is provided on this bridge?

As I said in reply to the right hon. Gentleman some time ago. my Department is in constant touch with the Road Research Laboratory of the D.S.I.R., and I am sure that the most modern advances will be taken advantage of by the highway authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received from the Edinburgh Corporation regarding a grant from his Department for the purpose of carrying out a survey of the origin and destination of traffic approaching the City; and what reply he has sent.

The answer to both parts of the Question is "None, Sir."

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are many people who are somewhat mystified at the way he feels unable to appreciate the importance of a by-pass round the City of Edinburgh? Is he also aware that my constituents in the Western Division of Edinburgh regard the by-pass round Edinburgh as much more important than even the Forth and Tay Bridges?

I think my hon. Friend realises that a number of people in different parts of Scotland have different views on the relevant priorities of a great many things.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he proposes to take to extend the present measures for the prevention of pollution of rivers in Scotland to their estuaries.

I can make no forecast of future policy until I see what happens to the Clean Rivers (Estuaries and Tidal Waters) Bill in another place.

Will my right hon. Friend exercise his good offices with the Opposition to see that if Amendments extending this useful Bill to Scotland can be added in another place there will be no opposition from the Opposition when the Bill comes back to us for consideration of Lords Amendments?

I agree that the extension of the Bill to Scotland would make for administrative simplicity and stimulate the progress that we would like to see, but I am aware that extension is opposed in certain quarters. If my hon. Friend can help me to overcome that, I will be very grateful.

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us what progress is being made in implementing the provisions of the Act of 1951 with the Tay River Purification Board, which is the Board covering the constituency of the hon. Member for South Angus (Sir James Duncan)? Will he also say whether or not this is a matter that he could properly refer to the Scottish River Purification Advisory Committee?

The answer to the first part of the supplementary question is, not without notice, and the answer to the second part is that I should like to consider it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much additional expenditure on roads will be incurred in Scotland during 1960 to assist in providing employment.

I estimate that Government and local authority expenditure on the maintenance and improvement of trunk and classified roads in 1960–61 will be about £18 million as against £15·6 million in 1959–60.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that is not really an answer to the Question? I asked how much additional expenditure is to be undertaken to assist unemployment in Scotland. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, in spite of the jobs that we have promised in the pipeline, tens of thousands of Scotland's people will not be able to get jobs for a considerable period of time? Does he not think that this would be a good way of assisting them?

A simple calculation will show the increase in expenditure over the two years, but, as I would point out again, because of modern methods of construction the direct contribution made by road works to employment is relatively small. I am fully aware of Scotland's employment problems, and I am considering them all the time.

Is the Secretary of State aware that, no matter how few may be the number of jobs provided, every single job is of importance when we have over 90,000 people unemployed?

I certainly agree with that. I merely emphasise that roads themselves are not great employment producers.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what proposals he has for expanding the programme of public works, other than roads, in Scotland to assist in providing employment.

The programme of works in Scotland for which I am responsible is already expanding and I expect that this year it will continue to expand.

Once again this is dodging the issue. Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that now that we have nearly 100,000 unemployed he ought to be expanding our housing programme, our forestry programme, our road programme, and all the things that would help to reduce that number?

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's point, but I have pointed out that the programme is expanding.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make it a condition of the award of public authority contracts in Scotland that the firms obtaining such contracts employ an adequate number of apprentices and provide approved training facilities by way of day-release education or otherwise.

It would not be justified to ask public authorities to restrict the award of contracts in this manner as the general rule is that public contracts should be awarded after open competition.

Is the Secretary of State aware that Scotland still lags behind a great deal in the provision of day-release facilities, and that one of the most urgent needs of Scotland is to provide the maximum number of skilled jobs? I appreciate the difficulty of this suggestion, but would it not be an encouragement to firms applying for public contracts if public authorities had some discretionary powers in this matter?

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman appreciates the difficulty of his original suggestion. It is a very awkward one indeed, for obvious reasons. On the question of day release, as I have said in a number of speeches in Scotland, I think it is very desirable that the number of day-release students should increase.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much was paid out by Fife County Council in improvement grants in each of the last four years.

The sums paid by the County Council in each of the four years up to 15th May, 1959, were £39,707, £46,128, £38,583 and £53,322 respectively.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this represents a quite intolerable burden on the ratepayers in Fife? Further, is he aware that, for instance, Sir John Gilmour has had in the last four years £5,110 in improvement grants, and Major Sir Robert Spencer Nairn has had £4,496, and that they are both prominent Tories? May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, in the interests of the ratepayers, he will ask the county council, or give it authority, to ask these people to apply to the National Assistance Board so that they get improvement grants on the same basis as the old-age pensioners get theirs?

I would be very glad if the hon. Member would ask the people living in the houses which have been improved whether they resent the improvements done to them, and I would further point out to him that 540 dwellings have been brought up to date and given a further lease of useful life for the average expenditure from public funds of £330 per dwelling. I consider that to be really valuable work.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how and why the houses got into such a deplorable condition?

The hon. Member knows very well that during the time his own party was in power, nothing like enough was done to repair this kind of property.

Has the right hon. Gentleman so far forgotten himself as not to realise that these grants are provided under an Act passed by a Labour Government—the Housing (Scotland) Act of 1949?

Yes, Sir, but what I regret very much is that much more use was not made of it during that Government's period of office.

In view of the very unsatisfactory nature of the reply, and in order to save public money, I give notice that I shall endeavour to raise this matter on the Motion for the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has for the provision of either a new road or improvements of the existing roads between the North end of the Forth Road Bridge when constructed, and the South end of the projected Tay Road Bridge.

I have nothing to add to the Answer which I gave to the hon. Member for Dunfermline Burghs (Dr. A. Thompson) on 11th April.

I read that Answer, and, of course, it was not very satisfactory. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that part of Fife is now on the list of the Board of Trade precisely because there is a considerable degree of unemployment in the area, which is likely to get worse? Will he therefore speed up his efforts to attract industry and reduce the number of unemployed?

In spite of all that the hon. Member said in reference to the previous Question, I will gladly sit down with him with a map and explain to him the reasons for my priorities in Fife.

asked the Prime Minister if he will instruct all Departments that when in future they give to the Press, with or without an accompanying statement, the Answers to Questions down for written reply, they should also make them available to all hon. Members by putting copies in the Vote Office so that they can be obtained on request.

I should be reluctant to change the existing arrangements which have, I believe, worked satisfactorily for a number of years.

May I ask the Prime Minister if he is aware how undesirable it is that outside bodies can have information before Members of Parliament? Is he aware that a recent Question was put down by the hon. Lady the Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward), in which a number of other hon. Members were interested, but there was no method of getting to know what the Answer was until next morning by reading it either in the Press or in HANSARD? Does not he agree that this is not a good thing?

This practice has gone on ever since I have been a Member of the House of Commons, and I have never heard it questioned before. If there is any feeling about it, no doubt it can be taken up through the usual channels. The only object is to meet the convenience of Members as far as possible.

Is not the complaint of my hon. Friend not so much that it is the practice to inform the hon. Member who put the Question down, but of prior information being given to the Press so that it appears there before it appears in HANSARD? Will the Prime Minister look into that point?

It is that practice which has always gone on and I had never heard it challenged before. The Answer is supplied to HANSARD at the same time as it is supplied to the Press. If there is any feeling, it is entirely a matter for the House to decide.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in this particular instance this is not a repetition of a long-established practice at all, but this is the first time it has happened? It happened in the case of the Local Employment Act, when a great many people were interested in knowing what areas were in the list and what were added from time to time, and this procedure effectively prevents Members of Parliament from knowing what was going on.

It prevents them from knowing what is going on until the next morning.

It is too late then.

As this Question was stated in general terms, I had no knowledge of what was the particular point raised. If a Question had been put down on any particular point I would have been glad to look into it.

May I ask my right hon. Friend if he is aware that I have some sympathy with the point raised by the right hon. Gentleman opposite, because it would have been helpful if the information had been in the Vote Office? Therefore, if he could look into the matter, I am quite certain that it would be helpful to do so to both sides of the House.

Of course, I will look into it. Perhaps, it would be easier to discuss it, because there are other consequential things which may follow; for instance, Questions not raised or not reached which are normally printed, and so forth. We shall have to look into quite a considerable reorganisation of the present system, and I think I could not do that without some inquiry.

asked the Prime Minister the terms of the telegram sent to him recently by the Ayrshire Committee of the National Farmers' Union calling for the resignation of the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food; what reasons were given for this demand; and what was the nature of his reply.

I can find no trace of such a telegram having been received.

Is the Prime Minister aware that that must be the fault of the Postmaster-General, because it was reported in the Scottish Farmer, a Conservative paper, that this telegram was sent? Is he aware that farmers in Scotland are so disgusted with his policy that even the hon. Member for Edinburgh, West (Mr. Stodart), one of his supporters, has described the Government's policy on sheep as "disastrously myopic"? What would his Arran ancestors think about that?

I do not know whether the sheep or the shepherd are said to be myopic. I thought the hon. Member was too old a hand to believe everything he reads in newspapers. What I suppose happened was that they thought better of it, and did not send the telegram.

May I ask the Prime Minister whether he is aware that on the tape an hour ago it was stated that there was a "New Prime Minister at Downing Street" under the heading "Prime Minister at Memorial Service"?

asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement on his discussions in Washington on European economic problems and on the question of a unified Western Europe.

asked the Prime Minister what discussions he had during his recent visit to the United States of America with President Eisenhower, Mr. Secretary Herter or any other member of the United States Government concerning the danger to the United Kingdom of certain economic and political developments towards common action in Western Europe.

I have nothing to add to what I told the House on Friday, 1st April.

Is it not a fact that the Prime Minister in a reply last week referred to the fact that he deplored the possibility of a split in Europe? May I ask him, therefore, whether, in view of this serious threat of a trade war, he would consider proposing a meeting between President de Gaulle, Dr. Adenauer, Mr. Erlander, the Swedish Prime Minister, and himself with a view to securing a basis of co-operation between the Economic Community and the European Free Trade Association?

I should like to take the opportunity of repeating that the United Kingdom welcomes the establishment of the Six as a contribution to the consolidation of Western Europe. It is to our interest that Western Europe should be strong and united, but we do feel that if the unity of the Six can be achieved only at the cost of doing economic harm to other countries of Western Europe, we might have averted one danger only to create another. The exact methods are at present being discussed in the various committees, and the Governments are in touch with each other. Perhaps we had better leave it at that for the moment, because the present situation is that a broad committee representative of the member-Governments of O.E.E.C, the United States, Canada and the European Commission is now considering this matter.

Without wishing to embarrass the right hon. Gentleman in any way, may I ask him if he will bear in mind that if what he was trying to convey was the general anxiety in this country about a limited union in Western Europe dominated by Germany, he will find support in many unexpected quarters? Does he not consider that any such union, desirable though it is, would be much safer if it were more broadly based?

The first part of that supplementary question is hardly carried out by the second part. I did not make any reference—I repeat—to any question of domination by this or that country, but to the hope that we would be able to unite Europe on an economic basis as far as possible, without in any way doing anything that might damage the creation of the Six as part of the unity of central Western Europe.

In view of the serious consequences which may follow from the exclusion of Britain from the Common Market, and of the growth of two separate economic blocs in Europe, as well as the urgency of the matter, may I ask the Prime Minister whether this subject was discussed during the visit to Britain of President de Gaulle, and whether, as a result, we may expect any modifications in policy on the part of Britain or of France?