asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will instruct his representative in the United Nations General Assembly to propose that the Assembly refers to it's International Law Commission the question of the custody of documents relating to Nazi war crimes, with instructions to prepare a draft international agreement for the lodging of all such available documents with, and their preservation by, the United Nations, together with suitable regulations for permitting access to such documents.

This is not a matter for the International Law Commission, which is concerned with the codification and the development of international law and not with making arrangements of the kind proposed for the custody of documents.

Nevertheless, will the Joint Under-Secretary of State give an assurance that he will approach the United Nations with a view to securing some kind of custody of these documents in order to lift the issue of Nazi war crimes out of the day-to-day diplomatic wrangle between East and West and to avoid the situation whereby Nazi crimes are forgotten or remembered according to the expediences of the cold war? Will he give us an assurance that we can have an impartial body for the custody of these documents so that they may be available to genuine scholars and for the ascertainment of the technical incidence of guilt in cases to which reference is made?

I am not sure that the hon. Gentleman is quite aware of the facts. His Question refers to war crimes and records. The records of the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal covering the trials of the major German war criminals are already deposited with the International Court of Justice at The Hague and are available for inspection. Our copies of the proceedings have been deposited at the Public Record Office where they are available to the public. In the case of minor war criminals, the records of many of these have already been published in the War Crimes Trials series.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell us, for the record, whether the archives referred to in this Question do in fact deal with war crimes or whether they are just lists of party members?

No. In this Question reference is made to war crimes and my Answer dealt with war crimes and war criminals.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs when he expects to be able to announce a date for the conference to draw up a peace treaty to end the war which started in 1939.

I cannot say. The answer will depend in the first place on the progress of our forthcoming negotiations with the Soviet Government. But I should add that so far as Her Majesty's Government are concerned the formal state of war with Germany came to an end in 1951 and no peace treaty is required in order to confirm this.

Do the Government realise that during this long delay in negotiating a peace treaty, festering sores are developing, such as the question of the Oder-Neisse line, which should be dealt with before they cause further trouble?

None of these matters can be finally dealt with until there is a peace treaty, and that must depend on having a unified Germany.

If there is to be discussion on a peace treaty, will the right hon. Gentleman recall that the war started in 1939, and that the Soviet Union at that time was not our ally but the ally of Hitlerite Germany? For the Soviet Union the war did not start until 1941.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, in view of the dangers to peace resulting from continuing conflicting claims regarding the eastern frontiers of Germany, what steps he is taking to secure an early peace settlement that will include the retention of the Sudetenland within Czechoslovakia.

A final peace settlement cannot be concluded until it can be freely negotiated by a Government representing the whole of Germany. Meanwhile, Her Majesty's Government's view is that no consideration should be given at a peace settlement to any changes in Germany's frontier with Czechoslovakia effected in 1938 or subsequently.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, but may I ask whether he has seen the recent demands by Herr Seebohm, a Federal Minister, and others, for the return to Germany of Czech Sudetenland, and also that German Czechs should stir up trouble? This is closely similar to demands which Hitler made before the war. Would the right hon. Gentleman indicate his disapproval of such demands?

Such statements do not accord with what I understand to be the view of the Federal Government. I have made clear what Her Majesty's Government's views are.

Would the right hon. Gentleman tell the House exactly what he means by the use of the phrase "a unified Germany"? Do the Government consider that it covers the "lost" territories now under Polish control?

I do not think I can add to what I have said in my Answer. If the hon. Gentleman will look at it he will find it quite clear.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what action he has now taken to remove the misunderstandings of the German Federal Government regarding the policy of Her Majesty's Government to aspects of European Economic Community political policy; and what further conversations have been or will be held between these governments in respect of the relationship between the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation and the European Free Trade Association.

Her Majesty's Ambassador in Bonn saw Herr von Brentano on 2nd April and, on my right hon. and learned Friend's instructions, drew attention to the statement which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made to the House on the previous day. I hope that this statement has cleared up any misunderstandings in the Federal Republic and elsewhere which may have been caused by the Press reports of my right hon. Friend's talks in Washington. As regards the second part of the Question, I would refer the right hon. Gentleman to the reply which my hon. Friend gave on 11th April to the hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. Kershaw).

May I ask the Minister whether a public statement is likely to be made in order to remove misunderstandings on this matter, misunderstandings that have not been confined to the German Federal Government?

There will be no further public statement than that which my right hon. Friend made to the House.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if it remains Her Majesty's Government's policy to prohibit the possession by Germany of a strategic air force.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in view of the fact that the 660 supersonic fighter-bomber aircraft which it is proposed to procure for the German air force are capable of being equipped to deliver missiles against strategic targets within the territories of neighbouring countries, he will call for a further revision of the Brussels Treaty to prevent any such development.

As I said last week these are tactical aircraft. They are required by the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation plans for the common defence. These plans and N.A.T.O. force requirements do not call for the possession by Germany of a strategic air force. And, like all other German operational forces, these aircraft will be under N.A.T.O. control.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that he is the only person who has commented on this matter who thinks that they are for tactical use? Is he aware that all the air correspondents of the Press who have commented on the 660 supersonic fighter-bombers have said that they are capable of long-range use and therefore they constitute the nucleus of a strategic air force? Is it not simply quibbling to say that they are for tactical use?

It is not a quibble at all. These aircraft have a range of about one-third of our V-bomber force, and they could not attack targets in Soviet territory.

Does the hon. Gentleman disagree with the view of the Secretary of State for War, that it is the target which determines whether the use of a weapon is for tactical or strategical purposes? The right hon. Gentleman made that view clear in discussing the Army Estimates last year. Does not the hon. Gentleman take into account also the danger which is being created by the provocative speeches of responsible Ministers in the Bonn Government about the reunification of Germany, if necessary by the use of force? I am talking about people like Seebohm and Oberländer. Does he not have misgivings about putting into the hands of the Germans at this time what in fact appears to every expert committee to be a highly mobile striking force capable of attacking strategic targets deep inside neighbouring countries?

A great deal of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is not for me in any event, but if, unhappily, these aircraft were used, they would be used in accordance with SACEUR's tactical plans and no other.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what proposals the British representative on the Ten-Power Disarmament Committee has made concerning force levels for States other than the United States of America and Russia in stages I and II of the Western disarmament plan.

Stage I of the Western plan proposes that appropriate force levels should be agreed for certain States other than the United States of America and the Soviet Union. This means those other members of the Ten-Power Committee who are willing to enter into such an agreement. Stage II includes a larger Disarmament Conference to fix force levels for all other militarily significant States.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask whether we may have an assurance that, in view of the rundown of conventional forces in some of the countries involved, the Government are concerned that the force levels which are fixed in accordance with Cmd. Paper 981, section 1, subsection (d), will not be greater than the actual size of the military forces at the time these levels are fixed? Otherwise, the absurd situation will exist that countries, to reach the force level, will have to increase their armed forces rather than reduce them.

I had better content myself by saying that discussions at the Geneva Conference have not yet reached a point at which it would be practicable for us to put further proposals about the force levels of other States.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is now in a position to make a state- ment on the Ten-Power Disarmament Conference.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs why Her Majesty's Government has refused at Geneva to accept, as a basis for discussion on disarmament, a plan for. total world disarmament.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether total world disarmament at the earliest practical date remains the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

As my right hon. and learned Friend said on 30th March, the conference has been studying the Soviet and Western proposals. They have not yet discussed details. I hope that this stage will soon be reached.

In view of the difficulty in getting information about the conference, could the right hon. Gentleman state to what extent common ground has already been reached? Will he publish a White Paper in the next week or two containing the points of agreement and disagreement at the conference?

There has been a certain amount of common ground. If the right hon. and learned Gentleman will look at the two plans together he will be able to discern them for himself. He suggested the publication of a White Paper. Agreement has now been reached about verbatim proceedings being published at regular intervals, subject to ten-Power agreement on each occasion. Details will be announced before long.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say why the idea of total disarmament is reckoned to be unrealistic by the Foreign Office? Many-people thought that it was a universally accepted principle that these discussions started with the aim of achieving total disarmament under effective international control. Have the Government retreated from that?

No. There has been no retreat at all. The hon. Gentleman knows OUT final aim. The term "total disarmament" suggests the abolition even of such reduced forces as will remain necessary for the maintenance of internal security and the fulfilment of obligations under the United Nations Charter. That is unrealistic.

The right hon. Gentleman's original Answer did not answer Question No. 17 at all. That Question asks whether total world disarmament at the earliest practical date remains the policy of the Government. Does not the right hon. Gentleman remember that when Mr. Khrushchev made his proposal there was a General Election going on in this country, and the Foreign Secretary made a speech on television in which he welcomed that proposal and promised cooperation in achieving it?

Our objectives are very clearly stated and set out in the Western Plan. For the sake of the hon. Gentleman and of the House, so that there shall be no misunderstanding and no aspersions cast, I shall read it:

"The ultimate goal is a secure, free and peaceful world in which there shall be general disarmament under effective international control and agreed procedures for the settlement of disputes in accordance with the principles of the United Nations Charter."

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in order to break the deadlock of the Ten-Nation Disarmament conference, he will propose that the levels to which armed forces shall be reduced during the early stages of the disarmament plan shall be those proposed in the Anglo-French Plan of 1954 and accepted by the Soviet representatives in 1955.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in order to break the deadlock on disarmament, he will at the forthcoming Western Foreign Ministers' Conference propose the inclusion in the first stage of the Western disarmament plain of the same ceiling figures for United States, Soviet, Chinese, British, French, etc., armaments, as those fixed in the original Anglo-French proposals of 1953–54, endorsed in the Soviet proposals of 10th May, 1955; and whether he will further press for acceptance of the Soviet proposal that the powers taking part in the Summit Conference should undertake never to be the first to resort to nuclear weapons.

I do not agree that there is a deadlock at this conference. As for the levels of forces proposed in the Western Disarmament Plan, I would refer the hon. Gentlemen to the Answer my hon. Friend gave in reply to a Question by the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mr. Swingler) on 4th April. As for the last pact of the Question by the hon, Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Zilliacus), the answer is "No, Sir."

I am glad to hear that there is no deadlock at the disarmament conference, but how does the right hon. Gentleman expect world opinion to take seriously the Western Powers' claim that they desire disarmament when they put forward proposals which involve, at least in the first two stages, a great deal of control and practically no disarmament?

I cannot accept what the hon. Gentleman says. What we are trying to do is to proceed to disarmament by stages, with control and disarmament going together at each stage.

Is it not a fact that the Soviet Government have objected to the first stage of the existing plan on the ground that the level of 2·5 million is slightly above the existing levels, and therefore the plan asks for control without disarmament? Would not that objection be met by going back to the 1954 figures? Furthermore, is it really the Government's contention that we propose to reject the plan not to use nuclear weapons first, and that we still stick to the line that we will use them first even if it means suicide?

The force levels proposed in the Western Plan are those agreed with Soviet Union in the 1957 disarmament negotiations.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what positive proposals he is advancing at Geneva to meet the difficulty as to whether disarmament or control should come first.

I have little to add to the reply my hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member for Bristol, Central (Mr. Awbery) on 4th April, except to say that the present difficulty is not so much that described by the hon. Gentleman as the definition of what constitutes general disarmament and how it should be achieved.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that whatever proposals are advanced in the discussions at Geneva some risks must be taken? Would he agree that fee must either take the risk of showing some measure of confidence in the Russian proposals or run the infinitely greater risk of involving this nation in nuclear warfare? Will he assure us, for our comfort, that he will not take the second risk?

I can best assure the hon. Member by saying that "No disarmament without control and no control without disarmament" is now common to both sides.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will instruct the British delegate to the United Nations to table a resolution to ensure that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, passed by the Assembly on 10th December, 1948, is observed, that everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work, and to protection against unemployment.

I do not think that a resolution on the lines proposed by the hon. Gentleman could have any greater effect than has the Universal Declaration itself. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, the Declaration was proclaimed by the General Assembly as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the things that have happened since then in South Africa? Does he appreciate that the Declaration refers to the right to work, that the right to work also involves the right to refuse to work, and that not since the late eighteenth century has it been legal in this country to force a man to work? But in South Africa last week, in certain towns, after the time of 8 o'clock in the morning, men were driven to work either with clubs or whips. It is for this reason that I think that the Government, as head of the Commonwealth, should lay down a standard of civilised conduct with which the rest of the Commonwealth should agree. Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that when this sort of thing happened in Hungary we were very anxious to rush in. Will he agree that evil is indivisible?

That is a very ramified supplementary question and rather far from the original one, which is directed towards the United Nations, and which I have tried to answer.

On a point of order Mr. Speaker. The right hon. Gentleman is questioning my bona fides in asking this supplementary question. I sent him a letter of explanation why I was asking the Question before I asked it.

I am not criticising the hon. Member's bona fides. I am saying that his supplementary question is rather far from his original Question. I am sure that the hon. Member realises that the whole problem of Hungary was entirely different, as there was invasion by foreign forces. This Question deals with the United Nations, and my answer is that no resolution of the Assembly can "ensure" anything, because all such resolutions are merely recommendations.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what consultations his representative at the United Nations has had with the Secretary General of the United Nations in regard to the implementation of the recent resolution of the Security Council concerning the racial policies of the Union of South Africa.

My right hon. and learned Friend spent the night of 10th April in New York on his way to Washington. In the course of that evening he and Mr. Hammarskjold had a general talk on current questions affecting the United Nations, including the South African question before the Security Council and disarmament. Sir Pierson Dixon was present.

Though the Government abstained in the Security Council on this question, will the Minister give an assurance that the Government accept the decision taken by the United Nations without any vote against? Will the Government use their good offices to implement that part of the Security Council resolution that calls for consultations between the United Nations and the Government of the Union of South Africa?

The resolution did not call on other nations. The Council did not call on its members to take any action. The Council called on the Secretary-General. Mr. Hammarskjold, in a Press conference, said that he wants to play this hand "as the Secretary-General" and

"as an independent organ of the United Nations."

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what progress has been made by the United Nations in respect of negotiations with the Government of the Union of South Africa about their responsibilities, as a mandatory power, for the administration of South West Africa, particularly with regard to their recognition of human rights in that territory.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what consultations the representative of Her Majesty's Government at the United Nations has had with the Secretary General of the United Nations with regard to the possibility of negotiating with the Government of the Union of South Africa concerning their responsibilities, as a mandatory power, for the administration of South West Africa.

As my right hon. Friend, the Home Secretary, informed the House on 31st March, the position is that at its recent session the General Assembly adopted a resolution inviting the Union Government to enter into negotiations with the United Nations through its Committee on South West Africa or any other committee which the Assembly might appoint. The Assembly also requested the Union Government to formulate, for consideration at its fifteenth session this autumn, certain proposals for the administration of South West Africa.

Is the Minister aware that the inhibitions which the Government feel about interfering in the internal affairs of another Commonwealth country should not operate in respect of South West Africa, which is essentially a United Nations question? Will the Government, therefore, correct the unfortunate impression created by their abstention on the South African resolution before the Security Council by taking the initiative within the United Nations on this question of South West Africa to try to get negotiations going which will put an end to the racialist policies being operated there?

The United Kingdom is not a member of the Committee on South West Africa and it would be inappropriate for Her Majesty's Government to intervene in its affairs.

Will the Minister agree that there is an obligation on the United Nations, and therefore on Great Britain as a member nation, to ensure that the original mandate which the International Court recognised is carried out? In view of the appeals that have been made by the Herero people and the evidence that the terms of the mandate are not being observed, will Her Majesty's Government be prepared to support any proposal for international supervision of this territory?

No, Sir. We have always thought that the only possible way of securing a solution to this problem was by getting the co-operation both of the Government administering the territory and the United Nations.

Is it not the case that the United Nations has asked the South African Government on at least three occasions, if not more, to account for their administration of the area? As the South African Government consistently flout that decision, although this territory is not theirs, although they are the trustees for it—and as other countries including the United Kingdom have accounted for their mandates in other territories—why should not the Government now reverse their previous position and be ready to support some move to take back from the South African Government responsibility for this territory?

This matter is in the hands of the responsible committee of the United Nations and we must leave it to that committee to work the thing out.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will give details of the efforts made on and since 6th April at the Second United Nations Conference on the Law, of the Sea now sitting at Geneva to bring about a compromise agreement on distant water fishing and territorial waters acceptable to the United Kingdom, the United States of America, Canada and the other States represented there; if he will indicate in detail what obstacles to agreement now remain; and to what extent agreement has so far been reached between the nations involved.

The United States and Canadian proposals to which I referred last week have been withdrawn and a new joint proposal substituted. This provides for a six-mile territorial sea plus a further six-mile contiguous fishing zone in which fishing States with historic rights would be allowed to continue to fish for ten years. We have supported this proposal.

Is the Minister aware that the Icelandic delegate has rejected the American-Canadian compromise, on the scientific ground that it would prejudice the spawning grounds and thereby damage the fishing interests of all nations concerned? Will he tell us what is the scientific answer to that, and whether that scientific answer has been put forward at Geneva? What are the prospects of getting an agreement which is satisfactory to all the nations concerned?

As these negotiations are now in a very tricky stage, it would be as well for me not to anticipate. We believe that the plan most likely to succeed is that which we have supported.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will ask the Belgian Government to contribute to the cost of maintaining and resettling refugees from the Belgian Congo in Uganda.

There are no refugees from the Belgian Congo in Uganda. I assume my hon. Friend is referring to refugees from Ruanda-Urundi. Many of these have now returned. The Uganda Government are in touch with the Belgian authorities about expenditure incurred, which so far amounts to £800.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many thousands of Africans may be killed in political unrest in the Belgian Congo and Ruanda-Urundi this year? Is he also aware that many potential refugees have been turned back at the frontier and that a substantial flood of refugees may be expected later in the year? Is he aware that the Belgian Government bear moral responsibility for the fate of these refugees?

I certainly hope that my hon. Friend's fear does not materialise. We see no reason to think that it will. An assurance has been given that a permit to stay will be given to any refugee who goes to Uganda if he can establish that, if he returned, he would be in danger of victimisation or would be tried for an offence of a political character.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what representations have been made to the Belgian Government about the restrictions now placed upon the convertibility of Belgian Congo currency, in view of the difficulties caused to traders in Western Uganda.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies is in touch with the Government of Uganda to discover the extent and nature of the difficulties experienced by traders in Western Uganda. If, after establishing the facts, an approach to the Belgian Government seems justified we shall make one. Meanwhile, we have made sure that the Belgian authorities in Leopoldville know of the Government of Uganda's concern in this matter.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that a substantial number of traders in Western Uganda face ruin from the action taken by the Belgian Government in this matter?

We would like to establish the facts first. As I say, we are prepared to take up the matter with the Belgian authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the visit of the Governor of Aden to the Yemen included diplomatic contact and conversations between him and representatives of the Yemeni Government; and what improvements have recently taken place in the relationship between the United Kingdom and the Yemen.

The Governor's visit was unofficial and he and Lady Luce were guests of Her Majesty's Charge d'Affaires in Taiz. He did, however, have private conversations with the Crown Prince and Yemeni officials. Relations between the United Kingdom and the Yemen have since improved and there has been local co-operation to minimise the effect of inter-tribal incidents on the borders of Yemen and the Aden Protectorate.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that Answer. May I ask him whether incidents have ceased for some time past along the border between the Protectorate and Aden, and whether this situation is likely to continue?

Yes, that is correct. I hope very much that it is likely to continue.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs why Her Majesty's Ambassador in Paris is described in official documents issued by the Embassy as Ambassadeur de l' Angleterre; in how many other posts the Ambassador is similarly described; and whether he will instruct all representatives abroad to use the expression United Kingdom, or its translated equivalent, in their official style.

I have made inquiries about this, and, as far as I can discover, no official documents issued by the Embassy describe Her Majesty's Ambassador in Paris as Ambassadeur de l' Angleterre.

Is the Minister not aware that there are other parts of the United Kingdom that have long connections with France? So far as Scotland is concerned, if the Government wish their Ambassador to be described as Ambassadeur de l'Angleterre they might arrange for an Ambassadeur d'Ecosse. I am willing to volunteer for that. I think that it is very bad for the education of people abroad that this kind of description should be used. My attention was called to this matter by visiting Members of Parliament from France last week. They were surprised and I was surprised, and I hope that other embassies will have their attention called to this matter so that the description can be accurate to show that this is an educated country.

Being a Scot myself. I am aware of the earlier points made by the right hon. Gentleman. I will draw my right hon. and learned Friend's attention to this point. Although he is an Englishman, he had a Scottish education and therefore is well fitted to judge in this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make a further statement on the Cyprus negotiations.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement about the negotiations regarding Cyprus.

I have nothing to add to the Answers I gave on 6th April, except that the discussion in Cyprus will, of course, be adjourned for the period of Easter.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how the Foreign Secretary's final terms are faring in these negotiations?

The negotiations are still in progress. There is no question of a breakdown. This morning, my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies held meetings, first, with Archbishop Makarios and then with Dr. Kutchuk. I have not yet had a report of the outcome.

Is it the case that we started by saying that we could not manage with less than 170 miles, that the Archbishop said we could not have more than 36 and that then we came down to 120 and he went up to 80? Now he has come up to 93. Does not this process of Eastern bargaining bode rather ill for the future of our base in Cyprus? Can the Government give an assurance that there is a determination on their part to ensure that there shall be a satisfactory settlement, and, in so far as they are able to comment, can they also give us an assurance that the Archbishop is willing that there should be a base of a proper size established there?

The Archbishop is willing that there should be a base. He is negotiating, as we are, under the London and Zurich Agreements. I cannot quote figures about the size of the sovereign base areas, but I think that I can say that the gap certainly has been narrowed. With regard to the final situation, I hope that the House appreciates that this is not merely a question of numbers of square miles. The United Kingdom has responsibilities and obligations which we cannot abrogate.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what recent proposals he has received from other member-nations of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation that Spain shall be admitted to the Organisation.

None, Sir.

In view of the recent statement of the German Foreign Minister that there is growing opinion in favour of the admission of Spain to N.A.T.O., will the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that Her Majesty's Government do not share this view?

Membership of N.A.T.O. is a matter for all the members of the Organisation together.

Will the hon. Gentleman answer my supplementary question? Will he give the assurance for which I ask?

My right hon. Friend dealt with this matter fully in answer to recent Questions. He said:

"I am certainly not going to make any such declaration in advance."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 7th March, 1960; Vol. 619, c. 27.]

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to what extent it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government that a limited number of nuclear tests are essential to the projected research into the detection of small underground tests; and whether he will make a statement.

As the right hon. and learned Gentleman may remember, the idea of a joint series of experiments underground, on which an effective control system might be based, was put forward by my right hon. and learned Friend the Foreign Secretary in his speech in the House on 29th October last.

Does the Minister's reply mean that during the period of the moratorium no underground tests will take place except for the express purpose of reseach work, and that they will be held under the joint responsibility of the three Governments?

Yes, that is so.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement about the latest developments in the nuclear tests conference.

At the meetings of the Conference during the past ten days, questions have been put by the Soviet delegation about the joint statement of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and President Eisenhower of 30th March, and explanations have been given by the Western delegations.

Is the Minister aware that on 7th April—after the Prime Minister's visit to Washington—it was reported from Geneva that Britain and America were insisting that some nuclear test explosions were still necessary? Why is this? Is the Minister aware that there would be widespread dismay if the test talks failed either on this account or over differences with regard to the number of inspections to be held annually?

The number of inspections to be held annually is something which is to be discussed in detail later, but I can assure the hon. Member that the talks will not fail for the reasons he has suggested.

Is it not a fact that the Russians have accepted the proposal for joint research into the problem of small explosions, which necessarily involves explosions taking place in the process of that research?

Yes. I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman was here, but I answered that question earlier this afternoon.

TO ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether he will take the initiative at the forthcoming Summit Conference to propose, as a means of lessening international tension and the danger of war, a non-aggression treaty in which all nations in the Warsaw Pact and the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation would join.

Mr. Silverman.

Before asking Question No. 23, Mr. Speaker, may I ask for your guidance, and, if possible, assistance. You will see that the Question asks the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will take a certain initiative. I never asked any such Question. I asked the Prime Minister, who is alone able to take the initiative at the Summit Conference, that Question, and I heard on Monday morning that the Prime Minister had transferred it to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs.

I should like to think about what could be done. I do not wish to make a mocking answer, but as the question of transfer is not a matter for me I suppose that every hon. Member has to frame his Question in such a form that it is immune to vitiation by transfer. I will think about the matter, if I may. I gather that the hon. Member wants to ask his Question, nonetheless.

Since I am in no way interested in any initiative which the Minister of State obviously will have no power to take at the Summit Conference —because he will not be there—and which the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs will have no power to take, even if he is there, I beg to ask leave not to ask the Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the practical measures of international co-operation in the Continent of Antarctica in which Her Majesty's Government have participated since the signing of the international agreement relating to that Continent.

The Treaty has not yet been ratified by any country although Her Majesty's Government hope to do so soon. In the meantime, apart from an increase in the free exchange of general and scientific information, discussions are being held in Washington about the form future co-operation should take.

Have not Her Majesty's Government practically agreed to some measure of neutralisation in the Antarctic Continent, with a view to providing security for the penguins there? Is it not time that they adopted the same attitude towards Europe, which is more highly populated?

My right hon. and learned Friend has already referred to the neutralising of the area, but in negotiating the Treaty we did not have to consult the penguins, which are not political animals—fortunately for them, perhaps.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if, in view of the threatened split in Europe, he will now apply for British membership of some of the functional organisations in Western Europe.

Her Majesty's Government are members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation and the Council of Europe. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the political and the economic reasons which have prevented us from becoming members of the supranational Communities of the Six. Our policy is to establish the closest possible association with them.

Do I take it that the Minister is in disagreement with his right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, who has said it is a pity that we did not join the Coal and Steel Community?

I hope that I am not in disagreement with my right hon. and learned Friend. I was answering the Question which the hon. Member put down.

What steps are the Government taking to heal this split in Europe, beyond rather plaintively putting forward a point of view which has been rejected by Europe for the last three years?

We have established formal relations with all three Communities, and have accredited a representative to them.

asked the Minister of Labour when a Ministry of Labour Training Centre will be established in the Northern Region.

My right hon. Friend is at present reviewing the need for a local centre.

Will my hon. Friend convey to his right hon. Friend the fact that the whole of the North will be awaiting the outcome of this review? Will he also bear in mind that he has an opportunity to implement the statement of good will towards the North East Coast? I am sure that my right hon. Friend will implement his pledges, but will he please get on with it, because we are fed up with waiting?

I will certainly convey to my right hon. Friend what my hon. Friend has said, but she should bear in mind that, before taking any final decision on this matter, my right horn. Friend will require to know the attitude of local trade associations, and consultations with this object in mind are now taking place.

asked the Minister of Labour what action he is taking to deal with the serious unemployment of boys under 18 years of age in the northern region.

The Government have shown their anxiety to help deal with this problem by designating several areas in the region as development districts under the Local Employment Act. Youth employment officers in the region will continue to do all they can to place boys in suitable work.

That reply does not give a great deal of comfort to the 1,640 boys under 18 years of age in the northern region, which is one of the worst regions in the country in this respect. I believe that Scotland is closely associated with it. For those 1,640 boys there are only 604 vacancies. Can the hon. Gentleman do something in the North East, in order that these boys who recently left school may have an opportunity of employment?

I appreciate what the hon. Member has said. The difficulty here is very much tied up with the difficulties of the general employment situation. It was for these reasons that parts of the northern area, to the extent of 28 per cent. of the insured population, were put on the list under the Local Employment Act.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that, because of the policy recently adopted by the National Coal Board, 45 per cent. of those employed in the small mines in the Merthyr Tydfil constituency have been rendered unemployed; and what action he will take to ensure suitable employment for these men.

In the last three months, twenty-one men have ceased for various reasons to be employed in licensed mines in the Merthyr Tydfil area. Two of them are still registered for employment, and my officers are endeavouring to place them.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in that very area the unemployment figure has varied from 4½ per cent. to 5 per cent. for the last four to four-and-a-half years? Will he also take into consideration that most of these miners now displaced from the small mines, by reason either of age or injury, will not be able to take up work in the deep mines?

I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman has another Question on the Order Paper dealing with the disabled and that in those matters there will be some difficulty. Of the twenty-one men referred to in my reply, all but two have secured employment and we are hoping to place these two.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that, of those engaged until recently in the small mines in South Wales, 20 per cent. were partially disabled miners from the deep mines, and that, because of the conditions imposed by the National Coal Board, these partially disabled miners are now being rendered unemployed; and what action he will take to restore these men to employment.

A small number of disabled are among those who have become unemployed in areas where these mines are mainly concentrated. My disablement resettlement officers will do their best to find alternative work for those whom the National Coal Board cannot engage.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, owing to the uncertain and contradictory policies of the National Coal Board, particularly with respect to mining in South Wales, a great deal of confidence in the Board has been lost? Is he aware that I hope he will have something to say to the Coal Board so that it will not continue to discourage people from working in the mines?

Negotiations between the National Coal Board and the Federation of Small Mines continue, and I prefer not to comment at the moment.

indicated dissent.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of men over 21 years of age registered as unemployed at the Bideford employment exchange at the last count; and how this compares with the figures at the same time last year.

There were 231 aged 18 and over at 14th March, 1960, compared with 238 at 9th March, 1959. Figures are not available for age 21 and over.

Will my right hon. Friend draw the attention of the President of the Board of Trade to these figures and, in view of their similarity, suggest that he might include this area in his new list?

I know that my right hon. Friend has given consideration to this point, but I am afraid that he has not found it possible to include the area in the list.

asked the Minister of Labour what representations he has received from the trade unions concerned asking for his help in securing recognition of the principle of collective bargaining for the staff employed in the Palace of Westminster.

I have received representations from one organisation, some of whose members are on the staff of the House, that arrangements should be made for negotiation and joint consultation. I propose to inform Mr. Speaker as Chairman of the Commissioners for regulating the offices of the House of Commons of this suggestion.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Palace of Westminster is the only Royal Palace where the full rights of trade union recognition are denied to the staff? Is he aware also that representations for the setting up of joint negotiating machinery have been made by the appropriate trade unions to the authorities of this House in the past and have been rejected? In view of this very bad example that we are setting, will the right hon. Gentleman go further and see that we have, under his leadership, the establishment of proper joint negotiating machinery?

It is not possible for me, as Minister of Labour, to introduce joint consultation machinery into any particular industrial organisation for which I have not direct responsibility. I think that the best procedure in the case of these representations is to adopt the method I mentioned in my Answer.

When all the parties in this House believe in collective bargaining, surely it is anomalous that there is not this procedure in the Palace of Westminster? Surely there are some steps which the Minister can take to bring his influence to bear in this matter?

I am sure that the Commissioners responsible for the House will note the exchanges on this Question.

asked the Minister of Labour what machinery exists under his Department for dealing with the representations of officers or servants of the House in the event of disputes concerning their conditions of employment.

None, Sir.

Will the right hon. Gentleman, first, appreciate that most of the Commissioners of this House do not know they hold the job—they do not even know they exist? Will the Minister bear in mind that the statement of the Leader of the House that most members of the staff of this House are satisfied with the present set-up, is not borne out by the representations made to me since the right hon. Gentleman made that statement? Would it not be rather to the credit of the House that we should all use all the efforts we can to have the rights of collective bargaining recognised in this place as they are recognised in every other place outside the Palace of Westminster?

I think that a very important point, but whether the machinery should be under my Department or not is a different question.

asked the Minister of Labour what proportion of Great Britain's total of men under 20 years of age who had been wholly unemployed for six months or more were registered in Scotland, and the Midlands, respectively, at the latest convenient date.

In Scotland 37 per cent. and in the Midlands 1·6 per cent. at 7th December, 1959.

Is the Minister aware that these two regions have, broadly speaking, the same population, and do not the figures which he has announced show the great need for much more vigorous action on the part of the Government to stimulate employment north of the Border?

I agree that these figures show that the Midland area has a high level of employment and that Scotland has great difficulties regarding employment at the moment. For these reasons, as well as others, 61 per cent. of the insured population of Scotland is now in areas which have been listed under the Local Employment Act.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that he could do much to alleviate the situation as it applies to the group between the ages of 15 and 18 years, which is comprehended in the figures given, and also that he could encourage his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland to go ahead with day-release schemes and apprenticeship schemes to cater for these lads not in employment at present? Is he aware that by the greater use and expansion of the youth centres it would be possible to engage more fully the activities of those boys and youths still unemployed?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Our Department is doing everything it can in these matters.

asked the Minister of Labour the ratio of boys under 18 years of age registered as wholly unemployed to the number of unfilled notified vacancies for boys in Scotland, and the Midlands, respectively, at the latest available date.

On 14th March, for every 100 boys registered as wholly unemployed, there were 36 unfilled notified vacancies in Scotland and 1,888 in the Midlands.

Does not this show the really shocking contrast between two parts of the United Kingdom? Will the Parliamentary Secretary take it from hon. Members on this side of the House that the measures which have so far been adopted by the Government are far from showing any likelihood of meeting this problem? Will he urge on his right hon. Friend, and upon the President of the Board of Trade, that much more stringent measures than those so far taken are needed to meet the shocking conditions which exist in Scotland?

My right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade continues, as he said he would, to refuse industrial development certificates in these congested areas, except in the most exceptional cases. There has been a great improvement in the figures regarding unemployment among boys under 18 in Scotland.

asked the Minister of Labour the ratio of boys under 18 years of age registered as wholly unemployed to the number of unfilled notified vacancies in the cities of Glasgow and Birmingham, respectively, at the latest convenient date.

On 14th March, for every 100 boys registered as wholly unemployed, there were 37 unfilled notified vacancies in the City of Glasgow and 2,849 in the City of Birmingham.

Is the Minister aware that the population of these two cities is, roughly speaking, the same in size? Is he aware of the social problem which lies behind this difficulty, that a youth in Birmingham has a reasonable opportunity of living a full life, but that a youth in Glasgow faces the humiliating prospect of being unable to get a job after having received a reasonably good education?

I appreciate the social problem and I can assure the hon. Gentleman of my pleasure that Glasgow has been made a development district under the Local Employment Act.

asked the Minister of Labour the ratio of boys under 18 years of age registered as wholly unemployed in the County of Lanark, at the latest convenient date, to the number of unfilled notified vacancies.

On 11th April, there were 22 vacancies for every 100 wholly unemployed boys.

Does the Minister realise that that Answer and others which have been given today show the state of the employment position for young people in Scotland? Is he also aware that his Government must bear fullest responsibility, because of their actions since 1951? May I ask him if he has ever seen any of these youths going from factory to factory from morning to night trying to find jobs, and coming back home at night weary and disheartened, feeling that nobody in this world is interested in them?

Yes, I can assure the hon. Lady that I have seen boys in these circumstances, and I fully appreciate the difficulties and the social implications. The hon. Lady is aware, of course, of the vast area in Scotland which is now listed under the Local Employment Act, and of the projects in the pipeline, and I hope that the general employment situation, which we hope will improve soon, will assist in the employment of boys.