asked the President of the Board of Trade what recent steps have been taken by his Department to call the attention of industrialists to the trade and employment prospects in the mid-Northumberland area, in view of the growing difficulty of finding employment by the disabled and able-bodied in the area.

Four firms have recently been shown locations in this area.

It is encouraging to know that four firms have been invited, and I hope that results will follow, but is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the promoters of the Hovercraft experimental project are making inquiries for facilities apart from where they are at the moment? Will he look at the possibility of the County of Northumberland, with its wide coastline, its reservoir of skilled workers and its training services, being considered in this respect? Further, is he aware that it is reported that Accrington R.A.F. camp is to be closed? If that report is correct, will he carefully consider the possibility of establishing there a training centre for apprenticeship and, perhaps, a place to provide work for disabled workers?

I shall certainly bear those points in mind when that firm or any other approaches us and requires permission to expand its activities.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what measures he has in view for the provision of industry in the new town of Peterlee and in the adjoining area where a substantial number of former mine workers are unemployed.

The Board of Trade will continue to bring the advantages of Peterlee, including the industrial sites available, to the attention of firms seeking a new location. The inclusion of the town and adjoining area in the development districts designated under the Local Employment Act should be a further encouragement to industry to go to the locality.

That is all very well, but I have had the same answer for the last five or six years, and very few industries have come to Peterlee. Those that have come, as the right hon. Gentleman is now aware, provide some employment for female labour. What about redundant mine workers? Cannot anything be done to help them? The matter is becoming very alarming.

We shall continue as we have in the past to point out to people who wish to expand the advantages of doing so in this area, but, of course, we depend upon the number of people coming forward with expansion projects.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what plans he has for restoring and increasing the traditional trade and commerce between Aberdeen and the Scandinavian countries in order to counterbalance the loss and damage inflicted on the North-East of Scotland by the Outer Seven Agreement.

The establishment of the European Free Trade Association will stimulate our exports to all the other member countries. It will thus help to further our policies for promoting economic activity in all parts of the United Kingdom. I do not accept the suggestion in the Question that the North-East of Scotland will be damaged.

Is the President of the Board of Trade aware that, in response to letters I have sent to the Scandinavian countries, I have received replies showing that people there are very willing to trade with Aberdeen? Further, is he aware that his answer is lacking in de-finiteness, and will he do something concrete to encourage Aberdeen-Scandinavian trade?

I am delighted to hear of the hon. and learned Gentleman's correspondence, which appears to show that 1ihe expansion of trade between Aberdeen and Scandinavia is primarily the responsibility of those who live in Aberdeen.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will state in detail how far he has used the powers given to him by the Local Employment Act to build factories and attract trade and industry to the city and county of Aberdeen; what are his present and future plans in this respect; how many feet of factory space are or will be involved; what inquiries he has received for the utilisation of those factories and that space; and with what result.

The Local Employment Act came into operation on 1st April. Applications for assistance under the Act for projects in Aberdeen City and county are under consideration and will be dealt with as expeditiously as possible.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that "under consideration" is no answer to the Question, which asks for details of plans? Is he aware that this Act was passed on representations to this House that quick benefit would follow and that yet he has no plan? What are his plans?

I am sorry if I have not made complete plans in the course of the last three weeks, but since the Act was passed we have been considering applications from people who may, we hope, go to the Aberdeen area.

Has my right hon. Friend asked local authorities for information in regard to sites prepared or ready to be prepared, and chambers of commerce for lists of existing firms who are interested in securing fresh contacts and markets or perhaps opportunities to manufacture under licence?

I think our regional organisation normally has very good contacts with the local authorities, and also wide knowledge of what sites are available. In so far as concerns existing firms wanting to expand their businesses, the Board of Trade is always willing to help when it can, but, by and large, this is a matter for the enterprise of the individual firms themselves.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he has seen the report on flammability of children's nightwear in the Consumer's Guide, a copy of which has been sent to him; and what action he proposes to take to impress on the public the dangers of these garments and to prevent the manufacture of children's nightdresses from flammable materials.

I have seen the report and welcome the wide publicity it has received. In reply to the second part of the Question, I would refer to the Answer I gave yesterday to my hon. Friend the Member for Hornsey (Lady Gammans) concerning the Interim Report of the Committee on Consumer Protection.

I apologise to my right hon. Friend for the fact that I used the words "Consumer's Guide" in the Question; it should be "Shopper's Guide."

This is a very important Report. We have only just received it. We are studying it carefully, and I will certainly bear in mind what my hon. Friend has said.

rose—

I hope the hon. Lady will not regard her question as a precedent for another one. It was rather on (he long side.

Would it not be very helpful to have more rigorous prosecution of manufacturers who put misleading labels upon their products? Further, could help be given to those reputable manufacturers who are getting near to the standards which we want?

I will certainly bear that in mind when considering the Report.

Is there not one recommendation in the Interim Report on Consumer Protection which could be applied almost right away? Would it not help at least those who have already done a tremendous amount of research in producing the right kind of materials and safeguard many small children who may otherwise be burned if manufacturers were forced to put an appropriate label on all materials?

I am very grateful indeed for these suggestions. We shall take them carefully into account in studying the Report.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, in view of the recent official announcement that 6,000 new jobs are to be provided on Tyneside and Wearside, if he will now give details of the factories concerned.

The estimate of more than 6,000 new jobs to accrue in South Tyneside and Wearside is to a large extent based on confidential information provided by the firms concerned. The projects expected to provide the jobs include those recently announced by Pressed Steel, Patons and Baldwins, Jackson the Tailor, Sigmund Pumps and Smith's Delivery Vehicles.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we will watch these announcements, when they cease being confidential, very carefully? Is he aware that we welcome these jobs and are grateful for what he has done, but that in face of the actual problem in the North-East, and much more so the potential problem, we can regard this only as a small beginning? Is he further aware that, in view of the contraction in coal mining and the recession in shipbuilding, and more so in ship-repairing, we feel that some big industry should be brought to the North-East? While we welcome what has been done, we can regard it as only a small beginning.

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's welcome of what has been done. I agree that it is only a beginning, but it is not quite as small as all that. Certainly there is a long way to go yet.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will enumerate the number of industrial projects which are proposed to be established in the administrative County of Durham during the next twelve months.

Twenty-eight industrial building projects of more than 5,000 square feet are under construction in the administrative County of Durham. According to the estimates of the firms concerned, these projects should provide over 2½ mililon square feet of new factory space and over 4,000 new jobs.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that what he has said merely touches the skin of the whole problem? Is he aware that there is greater uncertainty in the County of Durham now than ever before, so much so that many people are leaving the area in search of jobs? Will he study the problem and make a further attack on the problem of unemployment in the county and see that there is more expansion of factories in the area?

I am well aware of the difficulties in the county. I agree, as I have already said, that there is a very long way to go yet, but I hope in exchange that the hon. Member will not underestimate the fact that quite a lot has already been done.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will make a statement on the development and production of Hovercraft in the United Kingdom; and if he will state the extent to which British industry is now participating in and contributing towards the finance of the Government-sponsored project.

Responsibility for the development of Hovercraft based on the principle demonstrated in the S.R.N. l. prototype rests with Hovercraft Development Ltd. in which the National Research Development Corporation holds a majority interest. I understand that several United Kingdom concerns are cooperating with that company in investigating the possibility of collaboration in future development programmes.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that we are proceeding as speedily as we can in the development of this important industry? What is the position with the various schemes for such development?

This is a matter which is being handled by the National Research Development Corporation. Therefore, I obviously cannot deal with day-to-day management any more than I could in the case of a nationalised industry. However, I have been very impressed with the keenness and imagination which the Corporation has shown on this project and I am confident that it is not overlooking any possibility which might arise.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Minister of Transport made a speech yesterday saying that we were on the verge of having Hundreds of these Hovercraft coming into this country and having transport by monorail and so on. Does he support the idea that we are just on the brink of travel by Hovercraft? Does he share those views?

I always support my right hon. Friend's speeches.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he can now say when he will introduce a new weights and measures bill.

I regret that I cannot add to the reply given to the hon. Member for Dartford (Mr. Sydney Irving) on 28th January.

That was a very vague reply. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a number of traders and manufacturers who want to introduce new methods of packaging and selling their products are having difficulties in doing so under the old legislation? Is it not about time that this new legislation was speeded up, since the Labour Government started the thing in motion more than ten years ago?

I am not sure that that is necessarily a recommendation. I express regret that it has not been possible to introduce the Bill in this Session, but I very much hope that it will be possible to do so in the next.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that three years ago his predecessor said that a Bill was to be introduced in the next Session? Can he tell us what has gone wrong?

I think that the consultations with the interests involved— local authorities and so on—have been rather prolonged and complicated, also the pressure on Parliamentary time has been considerable.

asked the President of the Board of Trade when he intends to publish the results of the Survey of Shopping Habits.

I have decided that, although the Report provided some information of technical interest, it did not contain sufficient conclusions of general interest to justify publication.

We were told earlier that to some extent the new Bill would be based on the evidence from this inquiry. If that is so, is it not desirable that we should have all the evidence before we get the Bill? Without the evidence to bring the Hodgson Committee up to date, we would be in difficulties through dealing with an out-of-date report.

I think publication would not be justified, but I would be very glad to consider putting copies in the Library, if that would help hon. Members.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what stage the extension of Cummins Diesel Engine Company's factory, Shotts, has reached.

Missives have been exchanged for the acquisition by the Board of Trade of the necessary land. Detailed plans are still under discussion between the Cummins Engine Co. and the Industrial Estates Management Corporation for Scotland.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it was in November, 1958, that this firm first applied for land for extension? Does he not realise that there has been undue delay? What promise can he give us that very soon the people of this stricken area will see another industrial building going up?

I understand that "missives have been exchanged" is the Scottish equivalent of a signature of contract, so that the Board of Trade has signed a contract for the acquisition of land. I agree that there have been delays, but there have been reasons for them, and I think that the scheme will now go ahead.

asked the President of the Board of Trade when a decision will be given on financial assistance to the hosiery firm which proposes setting up business in Shotts.

I hope that the Board of Trade Advisory Committee will be in a position to consider this application for assistance at its meeting next month

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that for years Tory Presidents of the Board of Trade have been telling me that they appreciate the very great needs of this area? Is he aware that this is a firm which, because of its associations with the area, was desperately keen to get to it? Is he not afraid that the long delay might put this firm off?

I do not think that the delay has been any fault of ours. The firm made its preliminary inquiry on 25th July last. On 5th August, it was asked to fill in the normal questionnaire which it returned to the Committee on 2nd December. Information for the accountant's investigations was not received from the firm until 26th March. I think that we can go ahead now, but the Board of Trade cannot accept blame for the delay in this case.

As practically all Scottish hosiery firms are extremely prosperous and extremely well off, why should this firm require public assistance? How much does it want? How many people will it employ? What sort of production will it indulge in? Why does it want public money when the industry is in such a prosperous state?

No doubt those are matters which the Committee will consider, but the principle of the Local Employment Act is that the provision of assistance to firms which will go to these areas is not confined to companies in a needy or impoverished state. The principle of the Act is that if people go not to areas of their own choice but to areas of substantial unemployment, they are entitled to some State assistance in the process.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make it clear to his hon. Friend the Member for Louth (Mr. C. Osborne), who seems to be ill-informed, that this assistance will be by way of loan, which will be an investment from the Government point of view and not an outright grant of public money?

I cannot anticipate what form the assistance will take until I get the recommendations of the Committee.

Will the right hon. Gentleman inform his hon. Friend, who is extremely ignorant about this matter, that this is a small firm and that two brothers have shown very great initiative and any help that can possibly be given to them will be serving a very useful purpose?

I do not want to enter a discussion about the affairs of a particular firm. I think that my hon. Friend can take care of himself. He usually does so very well.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will supply details of the inducements offered to encourage new industry to come to Northern Ireland to every firm which replies to the letter sent out by his Department on 31st March to 47,000 manufacturing establishments relating to prospects for industrial expansion in the United Kingdom.

No, Sir. As my hon. Friend said on 14th April, the Northern Ireland Government circularised these firms about a year ago giving them the information in question.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—may I ask whether he is not aware that conditions have changed here a great deal in the past year, particularly with the passing of the Local Employment Act, and that there is a great deal of concern in Northern Ireland at the very high rate of unemployment there? Will not my right hon. Friend again consider this matter and particularly the fact that all that is requested is that firms which reply to the circular should be informed of the facilities which are available in Northern Ireland? I ask this particularly in view of the assurance which my right hon. Friend gave me during the debate in the House on the Local Employment Act.

I think that we have a subsequent Question on the Order Paper on Northern Ireland, but on the question of providing information about the Northern Ireland Government's own schemes, I think it is probably better to leave that to them; and they have already made this information available.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that people in Northern Ireland will be very pleased that some pressure is being applied by representatives of Northern Ireland following my visit and my speech there? Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether, in connection with any inducements that may be offered to get new employment into Northern Ireland, the question of the excessive transport charges for the removal of goods produced there will be looked at in order to find out whether anything can be done about them?

I am sure that Northern Ireland will welcome another doughty champion in these matters. As for inducements provided to firms going into Northern Ireland, that is a matter for the Northern Ireland Government and not for me.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will bring to the attention of every firm which is refused an industrial development certificate under the provisions of the Local Employment Act the facilities made available to new and expanding industries in Northern Ireland.

Yes, Sir. We will endeavour to do so.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his reply, may I ask him whether he will also consider the position of these 47,000 firms? Is he aware that we are not satisfied that circulars sent out a year ago by the Department of Commerce in Northern Ireland are sufficient to draw the attention of these firms to the excellent facilities which are available in Northern Ireland? May I ask my right hon. Friend to consider again the position of these 47,000 firms, because the conditions in England have entirely altered since the original circular was sent out by the Department of Commerce in Belfast?

This question is a little different from that of providing details of the Northern Ireland Government's own scheme. The Board of Trade always calls attention to the possibilities of Northern Ireland, and recently we have made new arrangements whereby when firms wishing to expand give permission we also give their names and details to the Ministry of Commerce in Northern Ireland. Therefore, I think that the liaison between us is good on these matters.

asked the President of the Board of Trade when negotiations on trade with Poland in 1960 will be resumed.

I hope it will be within the next few weeks.

What is holding up the negotiations? Is it not a fact that they started to run at Christmas-time and that there has been a long delay? Is the Minister aware that several million £s worth of very important industrial orders are involved and that these would mean many jobs for workers in concerns like English Electric? Could he not expedite these negotiations?

I agree that they are very important negotiations. The point is that we have a temporary arrangement to carry on until the middle of this year. The new arrangements will determine the pattern of trade as from 1st July. Therefore, it is important to start them in the immediate future.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many new jobs were provided in Scotland in 1959; and how many it is expected to provide in 1960.

Completed industrial buildings for which industrial developments certificates were granted were expected to provide approximately 6,000 new jobs in 1959 and, as far as at present can be estimated, over 7,000 new jobs will be provided in 1960.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that Scotland needs 12,500 jobs every year just to keep pace with England, never mind deal with the unemployment situation? Will the right hon. Gentleman deal with the matter much more urgently than the Government are dealing with it at present?

I agree that we have a long way to go in Scotland. I am glad to say that the unemployment figures there have improved recently, but there is a great deal more to be done.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what proposals he now has for seeking to relieve unemployment in Scotland by the establishment of State-sponsored industries.

I am not sure what the hon. Member has in mind in referring to State-sponsored industries, but the Board of Trade will continue to use their powers under the Local Employment Act to encourage industrial development in Scotland.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we mean public industries? In view of the fact that Governments have been trying to induce industry to come to Scotland for 15 years and that his own Government have been trying to persuade industry to go there for almost 10 years and that at the end of all this we are worse off than we were at the beginning, would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that it is time that the Government really tried to apply a few new ideas? Is he aware that the unemployed in Scotland do not mind whether they work for public industry or for free enterprise?

The fact is that nationalised industries are by and large basic services which are located naturally, for example, coal mining where there is coal and transport where there is the requirement. It is far more difficult to get basic industries and services to operate on a location policy than it is in the case of manufactures.

asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) what proportion of the total output of Great Britain's chemical and allied industries was produced in Scotland in 1948 and in 1959;

asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) what proportion of the total output of Great Britain's engineering and electrical goods industries was produced in Scotland in 1948 and in 1959;

asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) if he will state the percentage increase or decrease in output of the shipbuilding and marine engineering industries in Scotland between 1948 and 1959; and if he will compare Scottish growth or decline over this period with that of the rest of the United Kingdom;

asked the President of the Board of Trade what proportion of the total output of the vehicles industries was produced in Scotland in 1948 and in 1959;

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will state the percentage increase or decrease in output of the Scottish paper-making, printing and publishing industries between 1948 and 1959; and if he will compare Scottish growth or decline over this period with that of the rest of Great Britain.

asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) if he will state the percentage increase or decrease in output of the Scottish manufacturing industries between 1948 and 1959; and if he will compare Scottish growth or decline over this period with that of the rest of Great Brtiain;

asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) what proportion of Great Britain's total industrial output was produced in Scotland in 1948 and in 1959;

asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) what proportion of the total output of Great Britain's textile, clothing and footwear industries was produced in Scotland in 1948 and in 1959;

asked the President of the Board of Trade what proportion of the total output of the paper-making, printing and publishing industries of Great Britain was produced in Scotland in 1948 and 1959.

With permission, I propose to answer Questions Nos. 24 to 39 together.

On a point of order. Is it in order for a whole group of Questions dealing with quite separate matters to be taken in this way?

Being apprised of this intention, I had a look at the precedents this morning. I do not think we are in a position to stop it. [Interruption.] It is very interesting, but I believe that is right. I hope that, on any view, the hon. Gentleman would bear this in mind; I do not know at all what the Minister's intentions are, but it presumably means that he has prepared one answer to all these sixteen Questions. If we were to deal with them singly, I suppose he would be entitled to repeat the same answer sixteen times, which really is not very much help. [Interruption.] No. There is no question of hon. Members' rights being infringed if that were to happen, because if a comprehensive answer in these circumstances failed to answer properly or fully some points in any of the sixteen Questions, the matter would be open to further questioning by hon. Members. I think that is right.

Could you, Mr. Speaker, clarify the use of this phrase "With permission"? Does it mean with your permission, Mr. Speaker, or that of the hon. Members who put the Questions down, or the permission of the House? If it is not just a question of the permission of the Chair, could we be told what steps have been taken to obtain the necessary permission?

I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman asked me that. I did not know, and I have looked at the precedent this morning. I find that my immediate predecessor declared that in this context it is merely a courtesy phrase. It does not mean that there is a requirement of the permission of anybody.

Further to the point of order that has been raised. I appreciate the difficulties that you are in at the present time, Mr. Speaker, but will you bear in mind the fact that we have put a series of very similar questions on other industries to other Ministers who are responsible for these other industries and that we have got individual replies to individual questions, so that we got a complete picture industry by industry, which has been helpful to hon. Members generally and helpful, I think, to students of the development of the economy of Scotland? If the President of the Board of Trade is now going to lump together some sixteen Questions raising the question of the development of many different industries, it may cloud the issue and frustrate the intentions of the hon. Members in putting those Questions down in the House?

I quite follow the point which the hon. Gentleman is putting to me, and I hope I have made the position clear. I think that is strictly right. We do not know what is in the Minister's answer, if anything. Supposing the answer does not sufficiently cover any particular point in the sixteen Questions, that particular factor remains unanswered and is subject to further questioning hereafter. I do not think that I can help the House further.

On a question of principle, is not this a case where the power of the Crown has increased, is increasing and ought to be diminished? What steps can we take to prevent Ministers answering a whole bunch of Questions about different industries in one reply?

I am not going to rule on a hypothetical point like that, otherwise we might reach the point where it is said that the Order Paper was not being used for questioning but began to look like a campaign.

Further to that point of order. If this is really a courtesy phrase and not a discourtesy phrase, is it not probable, Mr. Speaker, that if you were to invite the President of the Board of Trade to do what my hon. Friends obviously desire he would meet your wishes?

I will not speculate about what any Minister might do. This does not mean that I accuse the Minister of discourtesy. I hope we can get on now.

You indicated, Mr. Speaker, that we had no prior knowledge of what the answer would be to the various Questions, but we know that they cover a fairly wide range of industries and different aspects arising out of the economic weakness of those industries. You said that if the answer did not meet our point we could put down another Question, but the right hon. Gentleman will have departed to the bottom of the list of Questions and we shall not be able to get at him for another period of time —[HON. MEMBERS: "Sit down."]

Order. The hon. Member is making a perfectly sensible point of order. Yes, I have the point. I do not think that the Chair is in a position to help the hon. Member about that. I appreciate that if the answer were to be inadequate some delay in catching up might be involved.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I suspect from the amused demeanour of the President of the Board of Trade that he is having a bit of a joke with us—

Order. Proper points of order are all right at Question Time. Rather dubious ones just consume time. Can we now get to this answer?

I regret that the detailed information needed to make these comparisons is not available. I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT the best information we have.

If the information is available, could we not have had some of it in the Answer of the right hon. Gentleman? Also, is it not a fact that the information which is available demonstrates that Scotland is failing to gain her corporate share of the expansion of the United Kingdom economy, particularly in the new and expanding industries, such as the chemical industry, which were the subject of my Questions? Further, is it not particularly important that Scotland should get an increasing share of those new and expanding industries?

I have endeavoured, in what I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT, to explain the rather complicated statistical background to these matters, which I thought was the best way I could assist the House. I do not know the appropriate share—that is a difficult phrase to understand—but it is true that the expansion in many industries in England has been much greater than in Scotland, and this is why the Government, through the Local Employment Act, are trying to help Scotland.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. If the information in answer to these Questions is already available in the "Index of Production" and other documents, should it not be the duty of the Table Office to refuse to accept these Questions? As far as I know, the practice is that if an hon. Member takes a Question to the Table Office and the information is already available, the Question is not accepted for the Order Paper.

That may be right. I do not claim infallibility for the Table Office, which cannot read every mortal publication.

Further to that point of order. We on this side deplore such slurs on the working of the Table Office. Is it not a fact that it has always accepted Questions which involve the calculation of proportions? If it is a question of reading a figure out of a published table, that is different. Otherwise Questions are accepted, and that is the information for which these Questions ask.

The right hon. Member may be right. I would prefer to look at the point, because I am anxious to make some progress with Questions.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many more statistics are available to the Government than are available to hon. Members in the published documents to which he referred? [HON. MEMBERS: "NO."] Of course, because it is the Government who pre- pare those documents on the basis of the fuller information which they have, and we could not get the information we have sought in these Questions from the published documents.

The hon. Member is well aware that the main problem of Scotland is the relatively high reliance of Scottish industry on the basic industries of coal, shipbuilding and heavy engineering, which have not shared in the general boom as compared with the rest of the United Kingdom.

Is the President of the Board of Trade aware that we are seeking here to find out whether those problems apply only to the basic industries? We have asked about the chemical, footwear and paper-making industries. It would seem to me that the President of the Board of Trade is simply avoiding making an effort to answer those questions. From what information we can get, which it seems to us is not accurate, it appears that in almost every respect Scotland emerges very badly indeed. Will he not look at those modern industries, as distinct from the old industries?

I am always glad to answer questions, but I cannot answer questions for which the information is not available.

Would the right hon. Gentleman take into consideration the fact that there is a great possibility that within the next two or three years the advantages of creating new employment by Government action may be offset by a decline in employment and the loss of jobs in Scotland, due to contraction in shipbuilding, the greatest industry of Scotland and England? Will he, therefore, impress upon his colleagues in the Government the necessity for immediate action to replace ships that have been serving the nation for a quarter of a century and get those ships laid down on the Clyde?

I am well aware of the importance to the Scottish economy of Clydeside shipping. I have been glad to see recently that Clydeside has been securing good orders in competition with other European shipbuilders.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the past five years, from 1954 to 1959, in the vehicle industry in Scotland there has been a reduction of 22 per cent. as against an increase of 31 per cent. in England? Does not this show that the Government are largely to blame for the present heavy unemployment in Scotland, and will the right hon. Gentleman admit that the much boosted Local Employment Act at the last General Election is completely ineffective in dealing with the unemployment position in Scotland?

I am not sure offhand whether those figures are accurate, but they certainly do not show that the Government are to blame.

In an earlier answer, the President of the Board of Trade indicated that even in the modern industries in Scotland progress was much slower than it was south of the Border. It is exactly that problem with which we are faced to which we want to try to find the answer. Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether in his view the lack of initiative is due to the Scottish businessman or to the lack of Government support and the lack of co-operation? We are anxious to know the facts so that we can do something to remedy the position.

I think the right way of looking at the situation is that there are considerable natural disadvantages suffered by Scottish industry, largely due to the distance from the main centres of consumption in this country, which must be and can only be overcome by the joint effort of industry, trade unions and Government, which is what we are trying to achieve.

As in his answers so far the right hon. Gentleman has clearly shown himself to be aware of the difficulties of Scotland in this regard, would he make representations to his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer that in any restrictions he imposes to restrain inflation amongst the over-industrialised population of England, such restrictions will not affect Scotland's industries, and that he will introduce relaxations there to stimulate development?

I think there is a relevant Question to my right hon. Friend on the Order Paper.

The Minister has failed to answer the Question dealing with textiles, footwear and clothing. If the consumer population in Scotland is to have its purchasing power maintained, surely we are entitled to a reasonable distribution of the items that can be consumed in terms of providing some of the production units in Scotland. We have had a specific reference to Jackson the Tailor, four example. After all, we use shoes and clothes in Scotland.

I am disappointed that the consumer industries are not stronger than they are in Scotland. I am sure that the market is there, and I believe that with an effort those industries could be expanded in Scotland.

May I raise a question concerning Question No. 39? Can the President of the Board of Trade give the assurance that the statement which he circulates in the OFFICIAL REPORT will include comparison concerning the paper-making industry, which has to face new competition as a result of agreement with the Outer Seven? I should like to know the position of this industry relative to its capacity in England.

When the hon. Member sees my answer, he will understand the reason why such information is not available.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some of us are getting rather tired of this "Gimme a dime, stranger" attitude, that we do not want to go cap-in-hand to the Government for everything and that we in Scotland are ready to stand on our own feet and make our own way in the world without Government assistance or help except when it is needed?

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many firms are licensed to import Swiss watches; when they were selected; and on what basis.

Three hundred and nine firms are licensed to import Swiss watches. They were selected in 1946 on the basis of their imports of watches from all sources in the year 1st September, 1938, to 31st August, 1939.

Is is not a quite ridiculous state of affairs that this decision should be frozen on a 1938 basis? Is it not time for the wind of change to blow away this cobweb? What has happened to the principles of Tory freedom? When is this business to be thrown open to all who wish to take part in it and not be limited to a few firms who are bribed into parting with their allocation to enable other people to import these watches?

The hon. Member has quoted one of the classic arguments against controls of all kinds, and the sooner we can get rid of them all, the better I shall be pleased. As to the more expensive watches, they will be all on open general licence in the near future— in fact, they are already—and progressively we are increasing the quotas for other watches. But as long as we have quotas it is difficult to find a satisfactory alternative to a licensing system.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he will find from his files that between 1945 and 1951 we removed a very high proportion of these controls based on a past period because we felt even then, 12 years ago, that 1938–39 and 1941–42 were too remote? Is it not time now in 1960 for the President of the Board of Trade to work out a more up-to-date system?

The only up-to-date system was that on the last occasion when there was no control.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what was the outcome of his recent meeting with the Dutch Foreign Minister; and whether he will make a statement.

Dr. Luns invited me to have an informal exchange of views with him, as one of the series of talks which he is holding with Ministers from various countries following the meeting of the Trade Committee held in Paris in March. These meetings were the result of a personal initiative by Dr. Luns to assist him as Chairman of the Trade Committee.

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us a little more? For example, is the President aware of the speech made by the German Chancellor yesterday in answer to a colleague of his who was present, stating that the Common Market Rome Treaty was based mainly on political considerations? Therefore, does the President, after his talk with Dr. Luns, think that it is still possible for some arrangement to be made economically between the Seven and the Six?

The right hon. Gentleman's question was about my discussions with Dr. Luns, which, as I have explained, were of a confidential character. My own conviction remains, that not only is it possible to have an arrangement between the Six and the Seven economically, but it is essential.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what was the total amount of hire purchase at the last convenient date; how this compares with a similar date in 1959; by how much it has increased since 1st January, 1960; and what consideration has been given to keeping the transactions in this sphere within reasonable proportions.

Hire purchase debt at the end of February, 1960, is estimated to have been £889 million compared with £596 million at the end of February, 1959; and it increased by £32 million in the two months since 1st January, 1960. The Government keep the amount of private credit extended in this and other ways under review, and are ready to take such steps as may be necessary to keep it within reasonable proportions.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that, as a consequence of the threat in the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 4th April, the stock markets have been affected ever since, and that there is a very, disturbing influence amongst shopkeepers, who really feel that the Government must make up their mind about this and not appear to take delight in tantalising people on a matter of great importance?

I appreciate the hon. Member's concern for the Stock Exchange, though I think it may be a little exaggerated. So far as retail trade is concerned, I cannot believe that such uncertainty in the retail trade exists, at the moment. I think it is going very well indeed.

What proportions has the right hon. Gentleman in mind, and on what basis does he arrive at them?

By calculations of judgment.

Could my right hon. Friend say how far he thinks this £300 million increase in the hire-purchase debt in this country is sucking goods into the home market which ought to be exported, and how far is it affecting our balance of payments position? Does he not think that something ought to be done pretty quickly about it?

I think it is certainly having some effect, although it is impossible to estimate how much. I believe that there is a later Question on the Order Paper to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on these matters.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he proposes to request the Monopolies Commission to inquire whether monopoly conditions exist in the manufacture of bicycles and allied products.

New references to the Commission are still under consideration and no decision has yet been taken.

Is the President of the Board of Trade aware that the chairman of Tube Investments Limited, which has been mainly responsible for the centralisation of bicycle production, has been invited by the Government to advise on the decentralisation of the railways, and does he think that this is a happy choice?

I do not quite see how that arises out of the Question. The flexibility of private enterprise is, to my mind, one of the assets of this country.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this flexibility has been shown by Raleigh Industries bringing out a new model, a super lightweight sports model, which is about to be launched on the market under the title of Blue Streak?

rose—

Order. There is some point where it is necessary to resume order.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the failure of the Commissioners responsible for regulating the pay, pensions and terms of service of the staff of this House to recognise and enforce the rights of trade union negotiation, he will take powers to transfer the duties of the Commissioners to a body more representative of the Commons as a whole, as recommended by the Select Committee on Accommodation.

No, Sir. We debated these matters as recently as 31st March.

Is the Prime Minister aware that, recently, one trade union at least has written to the Minister of Labour complaining that it is denied normal representative arrangements in dealing with House of Commons staff? Is the Prime Minister also aware that in the evidence before the Stokes Committee, Mr. Speaker Morrison agreed that a body established in 1812, such as the Commissioners were, was due for some sort of revision and reconsideration? In view of this, will not the Prime Minister take seriously the fact that our arrangements in the House of Commons for dealing with the staff are feudal and out of date, and will he, therefore, carry out the recommendation of the Stokes Committee?

No, Sir. This matter was discussed in the House only a few weeks ago. My right hon. Friend the Leader of the House said on this matter that the Commissioners

"meet sufficiently often to give confidence to the staff"

"The staff of the House have confidence in them, and I should prefer their constitutional duties not to be altered."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 31st March, 1960; Vol. 620, c. 1650.]

Is the Prime Minister aware that the only way of finding out the feeling of the staff is by allowing the staff normal methods of trade union organisation and representation? Is it not typical of the mediælval paternalism of the Government's attitude on this matter that they presume to say what the staff think without giving the staff facilities for trade union organisation to express their views?

I admire the eloquence of the hon. Lady, but I do not think she has advanced the argument any further than when it was debated a few weeks ago.

asked the Prime Minister what progress has been made towards securing the release of Miss Stanton and other citizens of the United Kingdom and British-protected persons detained without trial in South Africa; and whether he will now make direct representations on behalf of those still in detention to the Prime Minister or deputy-Prime Minister of the Union of South Africa.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement on the result of his undertaking to do all that he can to help and protect United Kingdom citizens now under arrest in South Africa.

The United Kingdom High Commissioner has remained in close touch with South African Ministers and has been informed that Miss Stanton would be released on the undertaking that she would leave South Africa without undue delay. The question of her eventual return to the Union would be considered in the light of conditions and circumstances at the time when she applied for leave to return. Miss Stanton has, however, stated that she feels unable to give this undertaking to leave South Africa.

Why should this remarkable—indeed, noble—woman be kept in prison because she refuses to be deported from the land and from the work to which she has dedicated her life? Is there any charge against her? Why is she still in prison? Does the Prime Minister remember saying a fortnight ago that this matter would not be allowed to drag on?

Yes, Sir. We made strong representations and this offer to Miss Stanton was made. She took time to consider it and arrangements were made that she should have the opportunity of discussing it with her lawyer, with her brother and with the assistant warden of the Tumelong Mission. She has now decided not to accept release on these conditions. We are, therefore, continuing our efforts to press that she should be either released unconditionally or charged.

How long does the Prime Minister think that this process will continue? Does he realise that it is a month since these people were imprisoned without charge and that almost a fortnight has passed since he undertook to do his best? What would the Prime Minister have done if the circumstances had arisen in a foreign country? Would he be content merely to continue to say that somebody was keeping in touch? Would he not demand immediate action, and should he not do so now?

We are, of course, demanding that action should be taken. It is only within the last few hours that I have heard that Miss Stanton had refused this offer of release on leaving the country which we had obtained.

Will my right hon. Friend take the opportunity next week of discussing this case with Mr. Louw when he is here? Will my right hon. Friend mention to him that as the representative of this lady in my constituency, I have received fifty letters from all over the country testifying to Miss Stanton's character and mentioning, in particular, that she is of a most peaceful disposition and not likely to be mixed up in any violence? Will my right hon. Friend therefore press Mr. Louw to see whether a charge could not be brought so that she could have the opportunity of facing trial?

Yes, Sir, of course. Naturally, had the Prime Minister himself been able to come, I would have discussed it with him. As Mr. Louw is coming, I shall certainly discuss these and other questions and will have the opportunity to do so within a day or two. I or my friends concentrated on the High Commissioner's trying to get the lady released. Then, there was the condition of her leaving the country. She considered it for some days and then decided—I admire and understand her reasons—not to accept it. We are, therefore, now pressing that she should be either charged or released without conditions.

Without in the least wishing to minimise the importance of the case of Miss Stanton, whom many of us revere, do I understand the Prime Minister to say that no citizen and no protected person under British care has been arrested? Will the right hon. Gentleman examine this matter again? Are there not thousands of protected persons from the High Commission Territories in Johannesburg? Have they not been open to arrest in the same way as other people in Johannesburg? Will the Prime Minister look into the matter so that we may be sure of the facts?

Of course, I will make further inquiries, but I have given the information which has been given to us from the High Commissioner. There is the case of Dr. Letele, with whom we have been in close touch, and we are urging that he should be either released or charged as soon as possible. We do not know of any other case of a British-protected person being detained. Four citizens from Basutoland have been arrested and charged.

As I have pressed this matter on several occasions, may I say that we welcome the Prime Minister's undertaking to take up this matter with the representative of the South African Government? May we take it that when he has done that, he will make another statement to the House of Commons?

I am grateful for the forbearance of the right hon. Gentleman and his friends. He will, I think, realise that what one tries to do is to get the results. Whether one is dealing with a Commonwealth country or a foreign country, mere protestation and statements are not always enough. What we want to try to do is to get the results. I welcome the chance in the next ten days while he is here of discussing the problem with Mr. Louw and trying to point out to him personally how much it would help in the reduction of tension on other matters if he could help us over these matters.

I asked the Prime Minister whether he would then make a statement to the House, or must I put down another Question?

Perhaps it would be simplest if the right hon. Gentleman would get in touch with me to know whether it is easier by Question or by statement. Often, a Question at Question Time is more convenient than statements after Question Time. I or one of my colleagues will keep in touch with the right hon. Gentleman and we will use the most convenient method. When the conference of Prime Ministers ends, I have to go to Paris, so it may be necessary to ask one of my hon. or right hon. Friends to make a statement on my behalf.

Will the Prime Minister reconsider his statement in reply to the last question that the release of this lady would reduce tension on other matters? Does he mean that to do common justice to this lady, either by charging her or by releasing her, would reduce tension on the policy of apartheid, which should be condemned and abhorred by every decent citizen in this country? I am sure that that is not what he means.

I hope that the hon. Member wil not take away the value of some of the arguments which I might use in order to obtain what I want.

Mr. Harold Wilson. Business question.

On a point of order. May I ask your advice Mr. Speaker? My hon. and learned Friend the Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hector Hughes) has put down Written Question No. 6, which appears on today's Order Paper. I assume that that Question will be answered today. How is it possible for hon. Members, on either side of the House, to obtain the Answer to that Question without having to wait until tomorrow morning until they read it in HANSARD or the daily papers?

The answer is that it is not possible for hon. Members to obtain the Answer until the OFFICIAL REPORT is available to them.

On a further point of order, Mr. Speaker. Are we not to have a statement from the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

The time for a statement is after the business question, which I have called.