asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty the cost of construction of H.M.S. "Jaguar"; what mechanical defects have been found in her; whether these have been repaired, and at what extra cost; and what the future use of this ship is to be.

As was shown on pages 226–227 of the current Navy Estimates, the estimated building cost of H.M.S. "Jaguar" was £3,772,000.

Shortly after commissioning the lubricating oil proved gritty, and her main engines were contaminated. The necessary repairs are being put in hand but, pending further investigation, no estimate of the cost is at present available.

When repaired H.M.S. "Jaguar" will resume here place in the squadron which provides the frigates on the South Atlantic and South America station.

Could the Civil Lord say whether a court of inquiry into this strange mishap has been held and what the findings of that court were?

A board of inquiry has been held and we are at present considering its findings.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty how much will be spent, and how many employed, in the improvement of Admiralty houses and related services in Scotland in the current year.

We expect to spend over £50,000 in the current year on the improvement, repair and redecoration of existing Admiralty houses in Scotland. We shall employ approximately 75 men, including supervisors, directly on this work.

Is the Civil Lord aware that there is some appreciation in Crombie, in my constituency, of what has been done in the way of housing but, in view of the unemployment which is still quite considerable there, will the hon. Gentleman undertake to re-examine the possibility of increasing the number of personnel employed on improvement work, particularly on the outside environment of the houses?

I will certainly have a look at that, but we have a programme already going ahead on improving the houses in Crombie and Beith, and I will write to the hon. Member on the matters which he raised recently in a letter to me.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty how long he estimates that it would take British dockyards to complete a nuclear-powered missile-firing submarine in the event of Polaris missiles being obtained from the United States of America.

It is impossible to give a reliable estimate. The "George Washington" will have taken about three years from keel-laying to become operational. We should take considerably longer partly because for us this would be a new type of ship and partly because there is no shift working in British shipyards.

Could not the time be reduced by fitting Polaris to a conventional submarine? In any case, would not my hon. Friend agree that such a submarine is likely to be in commission before our bomber force is likely to be equipped with Skybolt and would it not be cheaper to do this than to re-equip our bomber force?

I cannot answer that rather hypothetical supplementary question but, on the matter of comparative cost, I will look into my hon. Friend's point about the possibility of fitting Polaris in the conventional type of submarine.

How can the Civil Lord say that building a nuclear submarine will take us longer than it took the Americans? As they were doing something new, is not their experience available to us to enable us to build a submarine in less time than it took them to build one?

Yes, but when another nation takes on a very original form or new type of ship it is also likely to have to learn certain new techniques and, as I have said, we have no shift-working in Britain, while the Americans in their crash programme worked shifts throughout.

But has not a decision been taken to lay down a new submarine for this purpose?

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty how many apprenticeships were available, and accepted,

As the Answer involves a number of figures I will, with permission, circulate it in the Official Report. As I told the hon. Member on 30th March, we are increasing the intake of apprentices at Rosyth from 71 to 96—an increase of over a third.

Is the Civil Lord satisfied that, despite that increase, Rosyth is getting a fair proportion of the total available. Has his attention been called to the number of unemployed boys in the Cowdenbeath-Dunfermline area and the fact that there are no vacancies whatsoever available for them? Will he take that into account when possibly he reviews this matter?

In terms of dockyard industrials, Rosyth has 11 per cent. of the industrials in our four naval dockyards and will have 12 per cent. of our apprentices next year. Therefore, it is getting its fair share, but I will make a note of the point which the hon. Member has made.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty what steps are being taken to protect British trawlers fishing on the high seas off Iceland.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty what arrangements are being made, following the breakdown of the Geneva Conference, for protecting British trawlers fishing on the high seas outside territorial waters recognised by Her Majesty's Government.

I would refer my hon. Friend and the hon. Member to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food on 28th April.

Would my hon. Friend make it quite clear that if a British trawler is fishing up to the four-mile limit and is interfered with by an Icelandic patrol vessel, she has the protection of Her Majesty's Navy?

I cannot make that clear. If my hon. Friend refers to the original statement, he will see that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food said:

"The action of Her Majesty's ships will be decided on the spot. Naturally, if our vessels are seen by Her Majesty's ships to be molested by Icelandic gunboats, it will be up to Her Majesty's ships to take the necessary action." —[OFFICIAL REPORT, 28th April, 1960; Vol. 622, c. 406]

I cannot go further than that at this stage.

Does not that suggest an innovation of very great constitutional importance? Is it not a basic constitutional right that our ships when on their lawful occasions on the high seas have a constitutional right to the protection of the Royal Navy, and is it being suggested that that right will be denied and taken away in this sort of off-hand way by a statement of the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food?

We are not taking away any right. In an effort to create good will and to work towards a solution of this very difficult problem, following the Geneva Conference and the breakdown of that Conference despite the most patient and far-reaching desire of this nation to reach a solution, we are patrolling outside the 12-mile limit as an earnest of good will, and I hope that our gesture will be matched by a gesture on the other side.

This is as constitutionally serious as suspending habeas corpus.

In view of yesterday's news that a British trawler has been allowed into Reykjavik and the fact that the Icelandic Government have dropped their own prosecutions for fishing offences during the dispute, might we not hope that at the present time there is some sign of a better understanding between Iceland and this country?

I think that it is encouraging that, for the first time, there has been a move in that direction, and I am sure that the Royal Navy, with its good sense and statesmanship, will continue to try to engender good will as it has done in the past.

Would not the Minister agree that, while we all regret the breakdown of the Geneva Conference and appreciate the more tolerant attitude shown by Iceland, pending some further conference and clarification it is essential to British interests that the Admiralty should assert its constitutional right to protect British trawlers without the three-mile limit?

We have made this gesture in an effort to create good will. It is a worth-while gesture and it is encouraging that yesterday we received a gesture on the other side.

Is it right that Ministers should say that the commanders of these naval vessels will exercise their discretion if there should be any incident between the three-mile and twelve-mile limit? Have not the commanders of these vessels the right to expect that some advice should be given to them by Her Majesty's Ministers as to what action they should take in the event of there being any trouble within this limit?

In a case like this it is probably some advantage not to make all these facts publicly known. These are complicated matters of international law, the rights of hot pursuit and so on, and I do not think that they can be dealt with very easily by Question and Answer.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty the number of civilians employed by the Admiralty in Scotland at the latest convenient date.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty what percentage of civilians employed by the Admiralty in the United Kingdom is employed in Scotland.

On 1st January the total number of civilians employed in Scotland by the Admiralty was 15,755. This represents 13·5 per cent. of the total Admiralty civilian manpower employed in the United Kingdom.

I take it that the Minister is aware of the abnormal unemployment in Scotland. In view of the figures which he has just given, can he give us an assurance that the maximum concentration is being made to provide Admiralty work in Scotland?

I have shown by my answer now—and had the earlier Questions Nos. 2, 3 and 4 been called I would have been able to show by them, too— that Scotland is getting a very fair and in fact more than fair proportion of the total amount of naval work.

I hope that the Minister will appreciate that Scotland has suffered considerably from naval reorganisation and centralisation in the past. In one place of heavy unemployment, Greenock, we lost over 400 jobs. In any further centralisation of naval organisation will he centralise some of these establishments in Scotland instead of outwith Scotland?

I agree that the Torpedo Experimental Establishment moved in order to concentrate our under-water research at Portland, but that run-down is more than made up by the tremendous expansion of work going at the Dounreay Experimental Establishment, so, in gross, Scotland has gained immeasurably over the years as the result of Admiralty work.

Can my hon. Friend state the proportion of Scottish population as to the rest of the United Kingdom? Is it not in the region of 10 per cent.?

I think that Scotland's population is 10 per cent. of the United Kingdom population, so on a purely proportional basis I suppose one would expect 10 per cent. of the work to go to Scotland.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty how many naval training establishments are in Scotland; and what proportion of navy trainees, in any one year, receive their training in those Scottish establishments.

There are at present three training establishments in Scotland. Figures are not readily available of the proportion of the trainees who receive their training in these establishments during the course of a single year, but at the latest date for which figures are available 8 per cent. of all officers and ratings under training on shore in the United Kingdom were under training in Scotland.

Is the Minister aware that a very small proportion of the total personnel is being trained in Scotland and that, as private enterprise is failing to provide employment, the Government could influence these affairs to see that Scotland gets more than its share of public services and public work?

The figures I gave were of the naval training establishments to which the Question refers. I thought that it was right to concentrate on establishments which undertake training only. There are in addition establishments like Lossiemouth and H.M.S. "Safeguard" at Rosyth and the submarine training at Faslane, all of which have training responsibility as well as other responsibilities. In all, the percentage I gave would be swollen by these extra figures.

Can the Minister say what the percentage would be without the three establishments he has just mentioned? I think that the figure would be small and would not give us a parity with training establishments in England.

I am afraid that I cannot, because not all of these people at the other establishments are undergoing training. There is a strong element of training, especially in places like Lossiemouth.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty what proportion of navy stores and provisions purchased in the United Kingdom is purchased in Scotland.

I am sorry that these figures are not available.

Will the Civil Lord give an assurance that, in view of the fact that private enterprise is not playing its part in the development of Scottish economy and in particular in the production of consumer goods and manufactured goods, a proper phasing of the programme is done, so that the best possible bias is given to the purchase of these goods in Scotland?

I will certainly bear that point in mind. The last time we took a check was in 1953, when it was estimated that about 10 per cent. of United Kingdom purchases of all naval equipment and stores were in Scotland. It is impossible to break down the figures to find out exactly what is being done with food and other commodities.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty what proportion of the United Kingdom total of Admiralty expenditure on shore installations is spent in Scotland.

Approximately 15 per cent. during the last financial year, including expenditure on repairs, maintenance and married quarters. This represents an expenditure in Scotland last year of over £2 million.

Will the Civil Lord bear in mind that in this connection Scotland is not to be thought of in terms of 10 per cent. of the population? Scotland covers more than one-third of the total surface of the British Isles and the coastline which has to be protected must be nearly half of Great Britain's coastline. Further, since these are the northern waters, which are considered open waters, we would expect that there would be very much more work done than is being done. Will the hon. Gentleman see what more he can do?

I must say that I admire the hon. Gentleman's ingenuity when, in the face of the most devastating facts which I have given, he finds a new yardstick with which to argue that Scotland is not getting its share. However, his argument will not bear examination.

Will my hon. Friend say what proportion of Navy recruits comes from Scotland and what proportion from the south of England?

The best come from Scotland.

I am afraid that I cannot answer that supplementary Question without notice.

Is it not a fact that more than one-third of the surface of HANSARD is covered by Scottish Members?

Does the Civil Lord realise that Scotland has 22 per cent. of the unemployment in the country as a whole? Does he also realise that Scotland's share of the shipbuilding industry as a whole is very much larger than its share of the work he has announced this afternoon?

In a more serious vein, of course we understand. Various members of the Government in the last week have made it clear that we understand, sympathise with and are taking action about the problem of unemployment in Scotland. The outstanding figure for the Navy is that in 1950 in shipbuilding—this is tremendously important —Scotland got £2·8 million of work and this year is to get £15·1 million of work, which is a tremendous improvement.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the recently announced expansion of the naval station at Lossi-mouth in northern waters and the building programme there in the next three or four years have been welcomed by the local community, particularly as similar stations in England have recently been closed down?

indicated assent.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty what proportion of clothing for the Royal Navy, in terms of cost, is purchased in Scotland.

The bulk of our purchases in this field are for made-up clothing, but of the 50 Scottish firms on our list 31 make hosiery and only 12 contract for made-up clothing; this represents 2½ per cent. of the total United Kingdom list. At present our orders in this field are much reduced because we are using up surplus stock, but nevertheless Scottish firms are taking 3 per cent. of our total clothing orders which in the last financial year represents £28,000 spent in Scotland.

Is not that percentage very low? Will the hon. Gentleman accept is as a principle that, in common with other Government Departments, the Admiralty should set an example in these matters and as far as possible place orders in areas of high unemployment, keeping Scotland particularly in mind in that respect?

Is the Civil Lord aware that many women in Scotland are unemployed and that the proportion is far greater than in any other part of the United Kingdom? Does he appreciate that, if the Admiralty would give at least a fair share of those orders to Scotland, many of these unemployed women could be employed in clothing firms?

If there are Scottish firms which are able to supply our needs but which are not on our list, I hope that they will apply to be put on the list, when they will receive offers to submit tenders for the clothing which we need.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty when H.M. Yacht "Britannia" is due to return to the United Kingdom from the voyage commencing on 6th May.

No date has yet been fixed.

That is a rather surprising reply. In the circumstances, may I reserve critical comment on this Government expenditure until the honeymoon is over? Meanwhile, may I wish bon voyage to all who will be sailing in "Britannia" this week, not forgetting the 257 naval officers and ratings in whose welfare, of course, the Civil Lord is profoundly interested?

May I make it clear that the 257 officers and ratings to whom the hon. Gentleman referred would be there in "Britannia"—in the same numbers if not the same personnel—and have had to be there ever since the decision was taken to build the Royal Yacht. The use of the Royal Yacht does not in any way affect the numbers and the pay going to these sailors.

Since this voyage is to cost at least £1,000 a day, is it not possible that, if it goes on for an indefinite period, the Chancellor will have to have another credit squeeze? Does not the hon. Gentleman think that he could make some money if after this much advertised ship was free of this venture it was put on the New York-Miami-Caribbean sea route, where it would be very popular among American millionaires who would be able to pay the cost of the ship?

The hon. Member believes that by constantly repeating the figure he will be able to make it appear accurate and believable. However, his figure is absolutely wrong. It would be just as logical to ask what the cost of the salaries of the House of Commons staff was and then to charge it to the hon. Gentleman.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the ship's company of Her Majesty's Yacht "Britannia" deem it an honour to show the flag so effectively in the Caribbean?

indicated assent.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty the total of British naval expenditure in Korea from the commencement of the war in Korea until the end of 1959.

It is estimated that the cost of Royal Naval operations in support of the United Nations in Korea was about £11 million. No costs were incurred after the Armistice in 1953.

The hon. Member used to say that the Labour Government were responsible for this, and I opposed it at the time. Can he say, now that Mr. Syngman Rhee's régime has disappeared, what we have got for this money?

I should have thought that this was one of the most successful United Nations actions which had been instituted. It was brought to a success-full conclusion and tended to show that invasion and flagrant disobedience of international law do not pay.

asked the Secretary of State for War what contribution is made by the Bank of England towards the transport and pay of the military picket provided for the Bank.

asked the Secretary of State for War on how many occasions during the month of April the military picket has marched to and from the Bank of England; what alternative methods of transport were provided; and to what extent such transport is paid for from public funds.

The greatcoats and personal kit of the Bank picket are taken by a lorry in which the men also ride in wet weather, as on three occasions in April. The cost of the petrol is borne by public funds.

The Bank of England do not contribute to the pay of the guard, but make a separate allowance to the N.C.Os. and men.

While one appreciates the ceremonial functions of the Brigade of Guards being necessary, is it not quite wrong that the cost of this guard, which must be £10,000 a year in pay alone, should be borne by the War Office and not by the Bank of England, which, after all, is a commercial concern?

No, Sir. The men are needed at all events and it is wrong to suppose that they are employed only by virtue of the fact that a Bank picket is needed. The Bank makes an allowance to the men on picket, which is much appreciated by the men. My attention has been drawn to a diary of a field officer of the Brigade of Guards, who, writing in 1800 about this remuneration, spoke of "effusions of liberality" and

"a gratuity flowing from the spring of beneficent minds venting themselves in munificence."

We do not want to know about what happened in 1800. When is the right hon. Gentleman to make an end of this nonsense? Did not the Secretary of State hear the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday making a pledge to curb State spending? Could we not make a start with this balderdash?

The only expenditure which would not take place anyhow is the cost of the petrol of the lorry which takes the men's kit to the Bank of England, and that is not very great.

asked the Secretary of State for War when it is intended to restore the Royal Garrison Church, Domus Dei A.D. 1200, at Portsmouth which was bombed in 1941.

The Royal Garrison Church has had a long association with the Army and it would be the wish of many serving and retired soldiers that it should be restored. But only a small number of troops will be stationed in Portsmouth in future and I have concluded with regret that the heavy cost of rebuilding a garrison church for so few people could not be justified. We shall continue for as long as possible the arrangement whereby an Army chaplain conducts services in the surviving chancel of the building.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that only last week a burial service was held in this roofless church? Could not a claim be made under war damage at least for the church to be re-roofed, even if it is not restored?

No, Sir. As this church stands on Crown land, it has no claim, for war damage.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will publish a comprehensive list of the lands held by his Department inside the Shrewsbury constituency of Shropshire, and the use which is made of this property.

Yes, Sir. I will circulate a list in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Secretary of State for War why his Department refuses to consider the labour shortages of particular firms, jeopardising their production programmes, as grounds for releasing skilled men from the Army, whereas such grounds are considered adequate by hardship tribunals for granting deferment of call-up.

The circumstances set out by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour in his Answer on 14th March may justify postponement of call-up. They do not justify a man's exemption from National Service. Neither do they justify the release of men serving, unless some element of exceptional hardship has subsequently developed which might warrant a compassionate discharge.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is not a question of exemption from National Service but of permitting the premature release of men who have served some time, in view of the urgent need for them in industrial production? In view of the fact that the Army is being put on a voluntary basis, and that the Ministry of Labour is becoming more liberal in this matter, would the right hon. Gentleman reconsider this matter when it is clear that a man's skill is urgently needed by a particular firm?

Yes. Where a new situation developed after the call-up, which was not in existence at the time when the Minister of Labour said that the man could be called up and should no longer be deferred, then certainly we would bear these considerations in mind.

In view of the ending of National Service, would the right hon. Gentleman now consider early release for people who wish to start their university careers this October?

I should require notice of that question, but at present we could not do that.

asked the Secretary of State for War if, in view of the reduced activity at the Royal Ordnance Factory at Fazakerley, he will state his intentions regarding the full utilisation of the facilities at these premises.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer which I gave on 29th April to my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Mr. Matthews).

Could my right hon. Friend say how many of the employees at this factory are established and how many are unestablished?

About 750 are established and about the same number un-estabablished. I have not the exact figures with me, but they are of that order.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is yet in a position to make a statement on the report of the Hutchison Committee.

The report is being studied and I will make a statement as soon as I can; but because of the amount of detail this may not be for some weeks.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is increasing anxiety about the volume of work being done at Woolwich Arsenal? Could he give an assurance that no action will be taken without full consultation with the trade unions?

Yes, Sir. All interested parties will be consulted before the Report is implemented.

asked the Secretary of State for War the total British military expenditure in Korea, from the commencement of the war in Korea until the end of 1959.

The War Office share of the Korean Operations Pool Account was about £85 million.

Can the right hon. Gentleman assure us that we shall not throw away any more money in Korea?

There are at present eight British soldiers in Korea.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps he is taking to bring to the attention of the public the fact that compensation will only be paid for loss of money in the post where that money is dispatched in the registered envelope specially provided by the Post Office for this purpose.

This information appears in notices about the registration service exhibited at all post offices, in the Post Office Guide, and on the back of the certificate of posting given to people who post registered packets. It is also given publicity from time to time in books of stamps and in Press and broadcast notices; and I am arranging for these means of publicity to be used more often especially at Christmas time. I also intend to have a special poster displayed at post offices.

Is the hon. Lady aware that I am very grateful to her for the action which she has taken in this matter arising from a case in my constituency, in which a constituent of mine was not aware of this provision? I believe that a large number of the public are not aware of it, and I certainly was not. Could she make sure that supplementary means of publicity are used and that her poster, when it is produced, is very large and very clear?

I am very glad to give the hon. Lady that assurance. I agree that this is a matter which should have the most widespread publicity possible.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will review the present system of collecting mail in the urban district of Darfield, near Barnsley, so that a collection of mail can take place at 8 p.m. or thereabouts from Monday to Friday, inclusive, and at 6 p.m. on Saturdays and Sundays.

The services provided in the Urban District of Darfield are comparable with those in similar areas. I am sorry that I would not be justified in providing later collections on the lines suggested by the hon. Member.

I regret that reply. Does the hon. Lady realise that Darfield has a population of 6,500 and that it borders on Barnsley and Wombwell which have a collection three hours later than Darfield? Could the hon. Lady reorganise the route of the collecting van so that when it goes from Barnsley to Wombwell it can make a later collection at Darfield?

Perhaps the hon. Member does not know that people wishing to post letters later than 5.20 p.m. on Monday to Friday can do so at the box at Low Valley sub-post office which is near Wombwell, three-quarters of a mile from Darfield sub-post office. Very few people use that box. The number of letters posted in Darfield boxes from Monday to Friday after the last collection and before they are cleared next day averages nine at Darfield sub-post office, and two at Doncaster Road. We do not feel that the expenditure is justified.

Does the hon. Lady realise that the post office at Low Valley is right on the fringe of Womb-well and some way away from the centre of Darfield? Does she also realise that letters that are written in the evening are not posted until next day in Darfield because it is needless so to do, and that the collecting van which comes from Barnsley to Wombwell could easily be diverted round Darfield? [Interruption.]

I regret that I cannot add anything to my reply.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will direct that all telegrams sent to an address, as opposed to a telephone number, be delivered by hand in a sealed envelope in the interests of privacy.

When either the sender or the recipient specifies hand delivery, telegrams are delivered in sealed envelopes. Other telegrams are delivered by telephone when this is quicker or cheaper than by hand. This practice has been followed for many years and is, I think, in the best interest of users of the service.

As telegrams are now very nearly the most expensive form of communication, does not my right hon. Friend realise that sometimes confidential and important news does reach the wrong ears, and that it would be much better if this news could always go to the addressee by hand, rather than to a telephone number?

It is true that telegrams are expensive but if they were always delivered in sealed packets they would be even more expensive.

asked the Postmaster-General, in the light of the recent visit of the Assistant Postmaster-General, in company with the hon. Member for Leicester, North-West, to Mowmacre Hill, Leicester, and their discussion of the difficulties encountered by old-age pensioners and persons drawing family allowances arising from the lack of suitable post office facilities there, whether he will now give permission for another sub-post office to be opened.

I have carefully thought over the points made by the hon. Member when we met, but for the reasons I gave him then, and have explained to him previously, I should not be justified in doing as he asks.

I gratefully acknowledge the walk which the hon. Lady took with me on Mowmacre Hill, but I would ask her to realise that the conclusions she formed on that occasion are not acceptable to the residents there. I appreciate her anxiety about the possibility of a case of mistaken identity. Was that really her reason for not pushing the twins up the hill, or was it because she realised that it would convince her that there is a case for a sub-post office in the constituency?

The hon. Member and I have discussed this case fully. I regret I cannot add more to what I have already said. As for the twins, they had no need to come down the hill and there was therefore no need for them to be pushed up it.

asked the Postmaster-General why the excavations in Great George Street, Parliament Square, are proceeding at such a slow pace, with no more than one or two workmen on one part of the job at a time only, and working only during normal hours, thus prolonging a major bottleneck at a point where traffic conditions are always difficult.

I share my hon. Friend's concern at the interference with traffic in Great George Street. This work has consisted mainly of tunnelling; as many as fifteen men have been employed on-it, mostly below ground. Work has gone on during evenings and weekends. After a suspension for the Royal Wedding the work will continue round the clock, and I expect it to be finished by the end of next month.

asked the Postmaster-General what progress is being made in his experimental work on stereophonic broadcasting; and if he will make a statement.

This is rather a long-term matter, but the British Broadcasting Corporation has been studying the problem for some years and has been making experimental stereophonic transmissions— which the public can hear by using in conjunction a television and a sound receiver—since October, 1958.

The industry is also experimenting with various systems and the Television Advisory Committee is studying the question. The biggest technical problem is to find a system capable of transmission on a single broadcasting channel which could be satisfactorily received on both stereophonic and ordinary receivers.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many people in the radio manufacturing industry confidently anticipate a stereophonic broadcasting system? Is he also aware that some manufacturers are already producing and selling equipment capable of being adapted for stereophonic reception? Will he keep the trade acquainted with any developments that take place?

Yes. I agree with what the hon. Member says and I will do as he indicates.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is yet in a position to announce the membership and terms of reference of the proposed committee of inquiry into the future of broadcasts.

No, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that it is now some months since he agreed that much needed to be done by way of legislation and the inquiry itself before the B.B.C. charter runs out and the Television Act expires? Why is there this delay? Is it true that he is having difficulty in finding people of standing who are not strongly opposed to commercial broadcasting?

I appreciate all the considerations which the hon. Member has in mind, but at this moment I am not in the position to add to what I have said.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that it is only about ten years since we had a Royal Commission on this matter, whose advice was not followed? It would therefore seem unnecessary to have another full-scale inquiry. Further, if inquiries are in the air, will my right hon. Friend consider an inquiry in regard to the report in today's Daily Telegraph that the B.B.C. is usurping the functions of the I.T.A. in holding an inquiry into the financial structure of the television broadcasting companies, which is not the Corporation's business at all?

So far as I am aware, there has been no suggestion of a Royal Commission. As for the report in this morning's newspapers about the activities of the B.B.C, that does not arise out of this Question.

Do I understand from what the right hon. Gentleman has said that, although he is not yet ready to make an announcement, he will be ready to make it next week?

I am not prepared to go that far, but I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that we are not allowing the grass to grow under our feet.

Is it not true that all the facts in this field, technically and otherwise, are now very well known, and that the decisions involved are political, which means that there is no need even for a committee of inquiry?

I only wish that what my hon. Friend has said was true. I have found the greatest differences of view among the experts, even on technical questions.

asked the Secretary of State for Air when the Royal Air Force Station at Acklington, Northumberland, will be closed down; what future is planned for the station; and whether he will make a statement.

We have at present no plans to close Acklington. We are examining the possibility of using it for another task when the fighter squadron now stationed there is disbanded in the autumn.

asked the Secretary of State for Air (1) where the University of London Air Squadron will be carrying out their training this year; and when this training will take place;

(2) why the training of British Overseas Airways Corporation pilots for Boeing 707 aircraft at Saint Mawgan Royal Air Force airfield has caused other forms of flying training under Royal Air Force auspices at this airfield to be cancelled.

The only training affected by the B.O.A.C. activities at St. Mawgan is that of the University of London Air Squadron, whose flying could not conveniently and safely be carried out at the same time. The squadron will hold its summer camp at the Royal Naval Air Station, Brawdy, during June and July.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that it is most unfortunate that the University of London Air Squadron has had to go, especially as it was very desirous of going to Cornwall, and especially as the Royal Air Force in Cornwall was quite prepared to work out arrangements whereby both types of training could be carried out at the same time? Will my hon. Friend consider the question again?

This B.O.A.C. training is a matter of considerable national importance. Since there were no formal Royal Air Force objections, we were able to agree to the Ministry of Aviation's request. As for the matter of disappoint- ment, Brawdy was the second choice of the squadron in question, and I am sure that it will have a good and useful time there.

asked the Secretary of State for Air the number of civilians rescued by Royal Air Force helicopters from the English Channel last year.

Thirteen, Sir.

Does my hon. Friend realise that this service is very much appreciated by coastal resorts? May we have his assurance that we shall have a similar Good Samaritan service this year?

The Services are proud to give what help they can in these emergencies. There will still be a Royal Air Force detachment in Felixstowe and a Royal Naval detachment at Portland to do this work, but the primary job of Royal Air Force research and rescue helicopters is to rescue air crews, and we have to employ our rather limited resources with this fact in mind. After reconditioning the aircraft removed from this station, we shall take steps to reestablish the unit there as soon as possible.

Does not the Minister think that there is likely to be more assistance from helicopters round our coast this summer than in previous years? Surely the number of helicopters in this service is increasing?

Yes. There are eight helicopter detachments round the coast. We have no reason to expect that the work coming on to them will be any greater than in the past, but if it is they will still be capable of fulfilling it.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how many men have been trained in the operation and maintenance of the Thor missile.

About 1,700.

Since the only plausible justification for Thors was the rôle they had in training people to operate Blue Streak, would it not be wise to cut our losses now and stop the Thor programme?

Not at all. The Thor missile is at the moment a valid and useful part of the deterrent. The argument against Blue Streak is on quite a different time scale.

Does my hon. Friend agree that, however vulnerable Thor may become in the future, it is at present a very useful and effective weapon? Furthermore, it is a good example of interdependence in the alliance, which so many hon. Members desire.

I agree with my hon. Friend. I go further and say that the protective shield of Fighter Command means that Russian bombers could not count on knocking out Thor on the ground.

asked the Minister of Transport when he expects to receive the report of the Jacks Committee on Rural Transport.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply my right hon. Friend gave to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Lewes (Colonel Beamish) on 30th March.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, pending the receipt of the report, many firms are finding considerable difficulty in knowing where they are? Will he expedite things as much as possible?

I am aware of the difficulties of rural bus firms. The Committee is making extremely good progress now, and still hopes to be able to present its report in the autumn.

asked the Minister of Transport when he plans to complete that part of the north-south motorway through Lancashire which will link the Preston and Lancaster by-passes.

The objections to the draft scheme for this length of motorway are being considered. After I have made the scheme the other statutory processes and the acquisition of land inevitably take many months. Construction will be put in hand as soon as this preparatory work has been completed and the necessary funds are available. I cannot yet forecast a date for this.

Can the Minister give any date for the next statutory publication he is to make? Does he not agree that conditions in this area are now very bad? Can he give an assurance that there will be no unavoidable delay in the necessary process through which he has to go?

Yes, I can give that assurance. But Parliament has laid down the length of procedure which I am bound to obey.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he expects to be able to announce his next five-year highway development plan before the Parliamentary Summer Recess.

I would refer to the national plan for roads announced by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence on 30th July, 1959. As to the size of the road programme, I have nothing to add to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to the hon. Member for Bolton, West (Mr. Holt) on 26th April.

In view of the serious conditions on our roads, has the Minister nothing further to add about his intentions for dealing with this terrible situation in respect of accidents of which this is one of the causes, if not the whole cause? Does he not realise that his plans will be subject to careful inquiry by those concerned with deaths and accidents on the road? So that he may be assisted in dealing with the problem, will he give us a further statement on this later?

I am bound to point out that this year we are spending £13 million more on roads than last year. The hon. Gentleman wants increased expenditure, but I notice that four weeks ago he voted against increased taxation, which is necessary for increased expenditure.

We can cut out all this partisanship. The Minister himself said that the real answer to the problem was a new approach to spending money on roads and the building of roads. This needs a great deal of imagination on the part of himself and the Ministry. Have we not the right to expect from him in the very near future some idea of the plans that he has for dealing with this terrible problem?

My predecessor announced a very comprehensive road plan for about 8ve years. We are now engaged in completing that. We are spending more now than ever before in the history of this country.

Will the Minister agree that the programme means spending between £60 million and £70 million a year for the next few years? Will he agree that when he went to the Ministry he went with the idea of spending a great deal more money? Can he confirm whether he has asked the Cabinet for more money, and is it true that he has been refused?

Even if I could confirm it, I would not.

In view of the figures the Minister has quoted of his expenditure, will he recall that the cost of congestion on the roads is now estimated at £500 million a year, and that the cost of road accidents is at least another £200 million to the nation? Will he calculate the capital sum on which £700 million is the annual interest?

Many people make these calculations, and I notice that there is an astonishing variation between the highest and the lowest cost. I do not accept them at their face value.

In view of the unsatisfactory Answer, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Transport what study has been made, and what further study is being contemplated, of accident-proneness in relation to road safety.

Investigation of the question whether any relationship can be established between the characteristics of individual drivers, and the number and type of accidents which they sustain, is on the long-term programme of the Road Research Laboratory. Some limited studies have been made by the Laboratory in collaboration with the Medical Research Council.

We will look into the possibility of an extension of research in this field by the appropriate bodies.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there have been investigations in the United States of America and in Germany which tend to show that about 20 per cent. of drivers are responsible for about 80 per cent. of accidents? If, in collaboration with the insurance companies, this could be confirmed in this country, it might be that we could put corrective measures on the 20 per cent. who are responsible for the great majority of accidents.

I am aware of the American experience in this matter. It is by no means conclusive, but we are asking the Road Research Laboratory to look into the possibility of further research in this country.

asked the Minister of Transport if, in the interests of traffic, flow and safety, he will issue instructions that all minor obstructions and minor road works on the carriageway of trunk roads should be completed and cleared away by the Whitsun holidays.

I am sure that the need to avoid unnecessary obstruction of trunk road carriageways during Bank holiday week-ends is well understood by the local authorities who act as my agents, but I am arranging for all concerned to be reminded again before Whitsun.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that reminder will be much appreciated by the thousands of people held up by minor obstructions during the Easter holidays?

Yes.

Are we not between now and Whitsun to get from the Minister some indication of his intentions to try to avoid the problems that will otherwise necessarily arise during the Whitsun holiday period?