asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how the figures for offences of murder of persons aged one year and over, attempt to murder, threats or conspiracy to murder, and manslaughter, other than those concerned with the use of motor cars, for the year 1959 compare with similar figures for the years 1955 to 1958, inclusive.

I will, with permission, circulate a detailed table in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for the promise of further statistical detail, may I ask him if he can say whether, in his view, these figures show if there has been any increase or not in the number of deaths due to criminal violence since the passing of the Homicide Act in 1957?

The figures for the five years in question are, of course, all remarkably stable. As far as the offence of murder is concerned, involving victims aged one year and over, there was an increase in 1959, but the figure is still below that for 1956 and 1957. Therefore, the answer must be in the negative.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the total number of prisons, Borstals, approved schools, detention centres and other penal establishments in England and Wales; the average number of such penal establishments in each administrative county of England and Wales; and how many penal establishments are already existing in Dorset.

The total number of prisons, Borstals, detention centres, approved schools and remand homes in England and Wales is 250. The average number in each administrative county is 4·3. The number already existing in Dorset is three.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the presence of these establishments causes a certain amount of inconvenience in the neighbourhood, owing to the activities of the people who escape from them, and is a burden on the local police forces? Would not my right hon. Friend agree that a small county like Dorset should not have any further penal establishments introduced into it?

My hon. Friend may have in mind, of course, the open Borstal at Shaftesbury whioh has just been approved. I do not think that the number of these establishments in Dorset is excessive compared with neighbouring authorities, but. of course. I will bear my hon. Friend's point in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has yet received the replies from all the organisations he consulted on an extension of Summer Time; and if he will take measures to extend Summer Time until the end of October this year.

Five of the 176 organisations consulted have not yet replied. As regards the second part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply whioh I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Sir A Hurd) on 12th May.

Is the Minister aware that his reply will be disappointing to millions of people? In addition to the pleasure that an extra hour of daylight would bring to them, it could be a big factor in reducing the terrible toll of road casualties. Surely that should make the Home Office make up its mind?

The Home Office has come to no decision on this matter. All that I said was that we have had an extraordinarily mixed bag of replies in response to the questionnaire. They by no means conform to any one pattern, and therefore we must have a little more time for consideration.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a vast majority of people outside the organised bodies which he has consulted would very much like more hours of summer sunshine during the year?

We have, of course, consulted all the organised bodies which represent the public—local authority associations, chambers of trade, and so on. The variety of replies that we have received is surprising, and they cextainly do not all point to the conclusion to which, in fact, my hon. and gallant Friend has himself come.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there is a great deal of popular feeling on this subject, a lot of which obviously does not manifest itself through any organised channel? I think that most hon. Members will agree that there is probably an overwhelming body of opinion which thinks that Summer Time could with advantage be extended. Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the very valid observations of my hon. Friend the Member for Feltham (Mr. Hunter) about the effect this might have in reducing road accidents?

Yes, certainly, I think there is much in what the hon. Member says, but I think that, in view of the conflicting reports, we must consult every Department concerned. I should not like the hon. Gentleman to think that we could necessarily make any change this autumn.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will instruct governors of prisons to provide facilities to enable prisoners wishing to do so to give oral evidence to the Royal Commission on the Police with regard to their treatment in the police stations before being charged and before conviction.

Prisoners who wish to send written representations to the Royal Commission may do so; and I shall authorise the production before the Commission of any prisoner from whom the Commission wishes to hear oral evidence.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that it is not altogether satisfactory for prisoners to tender written evidence, and that these prisoners are in an unique position to give evidence about what has happened to them in police stations before their conviction and that they ought not to be prevented from doing so by reason of the fact that they have subsequently been convicted?

No, but I fail to see how I could have given a more generous and whole Answer than I have, because I have said not only that prisoners can give written representations, but that I shall authorise them to appear before the Commission when it wishes to hear their oral evidence. I hope that the hon. Member will feel satisfied that the latter assurance covers his supplementary question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the total estimated cost to Her Majesty's Government of the imprisonment of those persons who recently engaged in civil disobedience activities at Foulness.

About £1,000.

Is not this an unnecessary burden on the taxpayers, caused by severe sentences which are disproportionate to the offence? Could not the Home Secretary intervene to ensure less rigorous action against those who feel so deeply about nuclear annihilation that they engage in non-violent disobedience?

My right hon. Friend replied to a Question by the hon. Member for Gloucestershire, West (Mr. Loughlin) on the principle of this on 12th May, and I would not want to add to that reply—

Why not?

—but the people concerned were first inflicted with a penalty which they chose not to accept, and the choice of imprisonment was the consequence of their refusal.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will consider introducing some payment for loss of time for justices of the peace serving outside London.

The Justices of the Peace Act, 1949, in accordance with the recommendations of the Royal Commission, provides for the payment to justices of travelling expenses and allowances for overnight lodging. Last year, the Trades Union Congress represented that compensation should also be paid for loss of earnings. The Magistrates' Association and the Central Council of Magistrates' Courts Committees, whom my right hon. Friend has consulted, are opposed, by a majority, to this suggestion which my right hon. Friend is now considering further in consultation with my noble Friend, the Lord Chancellor.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider taking evidence from bodies other than the two he has mentioned, because there is mounting evidence to show that a number of people can do this important work only at considerable personal sacrifice and that there is a large number of younger men and women who cannot hope to serve and help the community by doing this very important work? Will the right hon. Gentleman have another look at this matter?

I should like to consider that suggestion. The hon. Gentleman will see that there is a conflict of opinion in the evidence contributed so far.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that that is the view of the Magistrates' Association and those who are justices of the peace now, but that there must be many thousands of people in the country who are not justices of the peace who would like to be justices of the peace if only they could afford to be? Will he reconsider this matter to see that those many people, who would be extremely helpful, particularly in juvenile courts, are given a chance to serve in this way?

That is just what we are doing. We are considering this matter. The point raised by the hon. Lady is certainly a very relevant one which my right hon. Friend and my noble Friend will take into account.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether he has had any representations from individuals who, on being invited to become magistrates, have refused because they have been unable to meet the expenses?

I am afraid I could not answer that question without notice.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) if he is aware that a motorist in England who fails to stop and report an accident can be fined only £20, and that, during 1958, the average fine imposed was 56s., whereas in New Zealand a similar case involving injury can be punished by a £500 fine or five years' imprisonment; if he will repeat the advice given by the then Lord Chancellor and circulated by his predecessor to magistrates after the passing of the Road Traffic Act, 1956, and urge magistrates to impose greater fines in such cases; if he will introduce legislation to increase the maximum penalties; and if he will make a statement;

My noble Friend the Lord Chancellor suggested in the course of the debates on the Road Traffic Bill of 1956 that magistrates might be well advised to review the scale of the penalties which they customarily impose in motoring cases. He has since repeated this advice and I have no reason to think that magistrates are unaware of it or of the importance which Parliament attaches to this problem. I believe that courts have been reviewing their penalties and I understand that when figures for 1959 are available they will show some increase in average fines and in the use of disqualification.

In the first place, does my right hon. Friend agree that it would be much better to impose heavy fines than to send men to prison for short sentences? Secondly, does he agree that the fines which have been imposed are rather footling? In view of the fact that the value of money has fallen so much since the maximum fine was imposed years ago, will he urge the magistrates' courts to make use of the maximum penalties now in their hands?

Yes, the Lord Chancellor is seized of these matters. This is why I referred in my Answer to his initiative. With regard to the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I cannot interfere with the administration of justice, but on the whole I would rather people did not go to prison.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department in view of the delay in dealing with court cases in Yorkshire due to the large increase in the number of such cases, if he will consider introducing legislation to establish a Crown Court in Yorkshire.

My right hon. Friend is aware that the increase in the number of cases committed to the superior courts for trial has caused difficulties in Yorkshire and elsewhere. The problem is under examination by the Interdepartmental Committee on the Business of the Criminal Courts and my right hon. Friend would prefer not to comment on the hon. Member's proposal until he has had the opportunity of considering the Committee's report.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the Magistrates' Association, in submitting to the Streatfeild Committee its evidence, has established that there should be a Crown Court where there is a case-load of over 700 per year? Will he bear in mind that it would ease the very heavy pressure which now exists during brief periods in dealing with a large number of cases?

Yes, it was the Streatfeild Committee to which I referred. I am quite certain that it will have regard to the hon. Member's point of view.

Can my right hon. Friend indicate when the report of the Streatfeild Committee will be available?

No. I should not like to comment on that, except that I believe it has more or less completed the taking of evidence. I certainly hope that the report will be available before the end of this year.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department on how many occasions since the passing of the Homicide Act, 1957, persons originally charged with murder have been found guilty, but had this charge reduced to one of manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility by virtue of a plea made under Section 2 of this Act.

Since the Homicide Act was passed on 21st March, 1957, there have been 66 persons who were originally charged with murder but were found guilty of manslaughter by reason of diminished responsibility under Section 2 of the Act.

In view of this really considerable number of people, will my right hon. Friend watch the operation of the Section carefully, as it seems that in some instances, such as the recent Birmingham murder, the more horrible the crime the lighter is the penalty inflicted through the operation of that Section?

Yes, provided by hon. Friend realises that the law is now being interpreted as passed by Parliament, and the only way of altering it would be fresh legislation. I will certainly watch the situation, but I would rather not give any undertaking about fresh legislation at the present time.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department to what extent plans for Grendon Underwood penal establishment have been modified since its original conception; when construction is expected to start; and if he will make a statement on the proposed function of this establishment.

The concept of a psychiatric prison originated a number of years ago and has been developed in the light of modern penal methods. Construction has already begun. The prison will provide psychiatric treatment for prisoners who, though not insane or mentally deficient, are recommended for this by prison medical officers following observation.

Does that Answer mean that all the prisoners in this establishment will be drafted from other prisons? Is the Home Secretary aware that there is now some confusion, since the passing of the Mental Health Act, as to what is the appropriate form of treatment for a criminal psychopath as between a penal and a hospital setting?

Yes, Sir. There is this difficulty. People will not be drafted direct to this prison and will have to go there on the recommendation of the prison medical officer concerned. We must work on the difficult and delicate point which the hon. Gentleman has raised in the light of experience gained in the early days of this prison.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many citizens of the West Indies entered the United Kingdom during 1959, during the first four months of 1959, and during the first four months of 1960, respectively.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the number of immigrants into the United Kingdom from the West Indies, India and Pakistan for the four months ended 30th April, 1960, as compared with the same period of 1959.

I will, with permission circulate the figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will my hon. and learned Friend agree with recent Press reports that the number of West Indian immigrants into this country this year is likely to be a record? If so, will he say whether he feels satisfied that in that case the opportunities for them to get housing accommodation and employment will be adequate in cities such as Nottingham to which they can be expected to go?

My hon. and gallant Friend is quite right in saying that the figures for the first four months of this year are higher than in any previous year —indeed, very much higher. The second part of his supplementary question raises broad and separate issues which I could not very well answer at this moment.

Will my hon. and learned Friend make further representations to the countries concerned to restrict emigrants from those countries to the United Kingdom, since it appears that the arrangements now made are proving quite ineffective?

That is a question for my right hon. Friend the Colonial Secretary.

Is it possible in these figures to distinguish between men and women and children, since it may be that the larger numbers now coming in consist much more of women and children of the men who have come before? If it is possible for him to give such figures, perhaps I could put down a Question, but I do not want to do that if it cannot be answered.

I should be grateful to the right hon. Gentleman if he put down a Question

Will the hon. and learned Gentleman be careful to see that in any steps which he takes there is not even a shadow of racial discrimination?

Yes, indeed.

Can the hon. and learned Gentleman say how these figures of immigration from the West Indies compare with the figures for immigration from Ireland?

Not without notice.

Why is it thought unnecessary to apply any of the provisions of the Aliens Act to these people while it is thought necessary to apply them to Western Europeans? Is not that an anomalous situation? Is not it anomalous that large numbers of people from backward countries should be admitted to the United Kingdom without any of those complicated procedures which are applied to Western Europeans?

The simple answer is that all these people from the West Indies are British subjects while the people from Western Europe come under the Aliens Act.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the association between the crime wave and undesirable clubs in the London area, he will expedite legislation for the better control of such clubs.

Consultations are proceeding with a view to introducing legislation to amend the law about registered clubs as soon as practicable.

That is a very vague Answer which we have had before. Is not the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the club problem is becoming an outrageous scandal? Would it not help to check these breeding grounds of crime and corruption if a short Measure were introduced quite quickly so that the police had the right to go before the local magistrates and oppose a club's application for a 5s. registration and were given the right of entry such as they have in respect of public houses? Has not the time come to take effective and immediate action?

I do not think that that would be a complete solution to the problem which we have in mind. On Tuesday my right hon. Friend received a London County Council deputation upon this subject. The hon. Gentleman must know that consultations are proceeding rapidly and we are anxious to reach an early solution.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will order an inquiry into the failure of the Metropolitan Police to protect witnesses in the Pen Club case from intimidation.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will introduce legislation to increase the powers of the courts and the police with regard to the protection of witnesses in criminal cases.

I am assured by the Commissioner of Police that in cases in which it is known that witnesses may be intimidated, protection is provided when it is possible and thought necessary to do so. In the case referred to by the hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey), police protection was in fact provided for two witnesses. It was also offered to a number of other witnesses who declined it.

While I recognise the very serious physical and even legal difficulties under which the police are operating in this case, may I ask the Home Secretary whether he is aware that there is very widespread public concern and even alarm over the circumstances in which such cases have been heard? Can he assure the House that he will take some special measure to ensure that there does not remain a section of the population which seems to be entirely immune from the normal processes of British justice?

I am rather anxious not to go any further in relation to this case, since an appeal is pending, and I have chosen my words so as to avoid all possibility of prejudice. But that does not mean that I am not aware of the very serious nature of the statement made by the hon. Member and the importance of watching the situation. The courts have power to subpoena witnesses and, in some circumstances, to attach for contempt persons who disobey those subpoenas. I am considering whether those powers are adequate and I am otherwise watching the situation.

I am grateful for the Home Secretary's assurance that he is considering the matter further. Will he now look further into the question of the adequacy of the police force and whether we should not take further steps by raising their pay, and so on, so as to increase their numbers? Secondly, can he assure the House that the overriding consideration in these matters is not whether witnesses want protection, but whether it is desirable in the public interest that they should have it?

The great difficulty has been causing witnesses to come forward. I think that it would be very difficult to obtain powers from Parliament to bring into protective custody persons believed able to assist, and that is precisely our difficulty in dealing with this gang warfare and the present situation with which we are now dealing. That is why I have been watching it from the angle which I mentioned to the hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey). I am looking forward eagerly to the Interim Report of the Royal Commission on the Police and I am well aware of the need for looking after the police and increasing their numbers.

Will the right hon. Gentleman in due course let us know how his thoughts are going in this matter? While we recognise the difficulties and do not want witnesses in this country to be arrested, as they can be in the United States, for instance, nevertheless, the course of justice may be in jeopardy because of witnesses being intimidated and even disappearing as a result of intimidation. Might not the answer be in there being greater power in the courts, and not the police, to cause witnesses to appear?

The interests of justice and the very serious situation which has arisen out of this case and which, alas, is prevalent in similar cases, must be carefully watched by Parliament and myself.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether the Metropolitan Police authority has now decided to prosecute the printers and publishers of a periodical entitled the Ladies' Directory, which advertises facilities for prostitution.

The Commissioner informs me that the police have not yet completed their inquiries.

Now that prostitutes have been advertising their services in this periodical for many months—and eight issues have appeared to date—will the Home Office send its copies to the Inland Revenue or to the Income Tax authorities so that they can ask for returns in respect of these flourishing business activities?

The Commissioners of Inland Revenue may well be interested in the hon. Member's useful suggestion. I am not sure how far it is proper for a Government Department to prompt the Inland Revenue in the way suggested, but I will bear the suggestion in mind.

Can my hon. and learned Friend inform us how the hon. Member for Brixton (Mr. Lipton) gets hold of these interesting periodicals? Can he inform us whether it is from the Home Office, the Sunday Pictorial, or the News of the World? One would like to know.

rose—

I do not know whether the Under-Secretary wishes to answer the hon. Member for Ayr (Sir T. Moore).

I did. The hon. Member for Brixton (Mr. Lipton) did not get a copy from the Home Office. Indeed, I do not know whether he has one, but I can make discreet inquiries for my hon. Friend the Member for Ayr (Sir T. Moore) if he wants one.

Would it help the hon. and learned Member and the hon. Member to know that this publication is openly on sale in the West End and that the hon. Member will have no difficulty in getting as many copies as he likes?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in the interests of road safety, he will prepare a comprehensive analysis of the police prosecutions in respect of motor accidents taken before the courts of summary jurisdiction, on the lines of the local statistics published by the police authority in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

I am not aware of any comprehensive analysis of prosecutions in respect of motor accidents in Newcastle-upon-Tyne. My hon. Friend may have in mind an analysis of the causes of road accidents contained in the annual report of the Chief Constable to the police authority. My right hon. Friends the Minister of Transport and the Secretary of State for Scotland publish each year a volume of statistics relating to road accidents which contains comparable information on a national basis.

While thanking my hon. and learned Friend for that reply, may I ask him if the Home Office is aware that the Minister of Transport has stated that the new analysis of accidents which he has undertaken is the first of its kind? Does not my hon. and learned Friend think that it is most extraordinary that we should have been talking about road accidents for years and years without any proper analysis whatever having been made of what prosecutions there were, and what followed from those prosecutions? Does he not also think that the whole basis of this examination has been deplorably neglected?

I would not accept the extreme statement which my hon. Friend has just made. These analyses are necessarily very elaborate and involve a great deal of research. The research upon which my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport is engaged is, I understand, of a limited character, and even so it will take some time. Nevertheless, we are anxious to have as much evidence as possible about the causes of accidents.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he will complete his study of the present system of registration and notification laid down in the Aliens Order, 1953; what changes he proposes to introduce; and the reason for the long delay.

This is a complex and difficult matter involving many consultations. My right hon. Friend will make a statement as soon as possible.

Can the hon. and learned Gentleman give any indication when the statement is likely to be made? Although no one wants to diminish the rights of British citizens to enter British and Commonwealth Territories freely, is it not anomalous that we draw a distinction between people from Malaya, the West Indies and Africa, and people from Western Europe and elsewhere? Is it really necessary to subject the latter to a complicated rigmarole which compares very unfavourably with immigration regulations in force in nearly every other country in Europe?

The hon. Member is trying to fire his second barrel at the same target, but the target has not been erected on this occasion. His supplementary question is quite irrelevant to the Question on the Order Paper.

In order to clarify the mind of the hon. and learned Gentleman, I beg leave to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department in whose custody the fingerprints and photographs of Mr. W. J. Darby, 17, Cleo Road, Dudley, which were obtained without statutory authority, are held under the provisions of Section 6 (2) of the Prevention of Crime Act, 1871.

Criminal records held at New Scotland Yard under Section 6 of the Prevention of Crime Act, 1871, are in the custody of the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis. Statutory authority is not necessary for the taking of fingerprints and photographs with consent.

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that I am not asking whether these fingerprints are in custody but where they are and who has them, for they are certainly within the custody of an officer appointed by the Home Secretary? Surely we can be told who has these documents?

My right hon. Friend's responsibility is limited to ensuring that the central registrar kept by the Commissioner is in the prescribed form. He has no responsibility with regard to the records sent to it or the destruction of records kept at it.

That is not the point. This is a humble citizen who now seeks redress in the courts. May I take it that the Home Secretary will accept service of a writ? If so, I will see that he is obliged.

Most certainly not. I do not think that any writ served on the Home Secretary in the way that the hon. Member suggests would be of any legal effect.

Although it is possible to take fingerprints without statutory authority if consent is given, is there any statutory power to keep them if that consent is subsequently withdrawn?

I understand that there is statutory power for those who have custody of these fingerprints to keep them once they have been given consent.

Will the hon. and learned Gentleman reply to the simple question: who has custody of these fingerprints?

I can only answer questions on matters for which my right hon. Friend is responsible. He has no responsibility for the custody of any particular evidence.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he is expecting the report of the Departmental Committee on the probation service.

I am not yet able to say when the Committee will report.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what special steps he proposes to take to deal with the gang warfare and protection rackets which exist in London.

I am in close touch with the Commissioner of Police and am satisfied that the Metropolitan Police are doing everything possible to suppress organised crime in the Metropolis.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a great deal of public concern about recent incidents? Has his attention been drawn to the incident this week in the Edmonton district in which a gang entered a street and terrified its inhabitants? It is not now what might be called the underworld which is being affected by this gang warfare but ordinary people in London.

What about corporal punishment?

I am aware of that incident. I am also satisfied that the police, by setting up a new criminal intelligence section, and in other ways, have had considerable success against these dangerous gangs. I can assure the hon. Lady that not only by the improvements in the conditions of the police that we hope to effect but also by increasing their numbers, and in other ways, we hope to combat this very serious wave of crime.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that doctors in some National Health Service hospitals are charging £4 4s. for the signing of a cremation certificate, despite the recommendation of the British Medical Association that £2 2s. is an adequate fee for this purpose; and whether he will now exercise his statutory powers to regulate the fees that doctors may charge in these cases.

The Home Office is reviewing the Cremation Regulations, including the question of prescribing fees for cremation certificates.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask if he is aware that there is a great deal of social injustice involved when hospitals within the same city charge different fees for the production of these certificates? The sooner action is taken the better.

At present there is a voluntary arrangement in effect through the co-operation of the British Medical Association, and generally it has worked well. The question now arises whether some compulsory condition should be imposed. I should be grateful to the hon. Member if he would send me particulars of individual cases where a fee of more than two guineas is charged, and I will look into them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department why school-crossing patrols in the Metropolitan Police area had a day's pay stopped on the occasion of the royal wedding.

Under their conditions of services, patrols are not paid for days when the schools are closed. But the day of the Royal Wedding was an exceptional occasion, and arrangements are being made to pay patrols in the Metropolitan Polict District for that day.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will amend the Magistrates' Courts Act of 1952, to ensure that whenever the justices decide not to sit in open court they shall not make public the names of the accused persons without making public their addresses also.

The whole question of the reporting of proceedings before examining justices was recently considered by the Departmental Committee of which Lord Tucker was Chairman. I have noted my hon. and gallant Friend's proposal for consideration with the recommendations of the Committee, but the matter is a difficult and controversial one and I cannot at present give any further undertaking.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that when the Work-sop Magistrates' Court adopted this procedure on Tuesday of last week and disclosed only the names and nothing else of ten men jointly accused of an unspecified offence, one of the names was Mr. John Storey, that there was another John Storey, who was a candidate in the Nottingham City Council election two days later, and that, although I am glad to say he is now Councillor John Storey, he suffered great embarrassment during his campaign? As a result of that case alone, would my right hon. Friend give urgent consideration to the Tucker Report with a view to amending the Act.

I will undertake to give this further active consideration. This case was brought to my attention.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he has received the Report of the Departmental Committee on the issue of subpoenas for the purposes of disciplinary tribunals of professional bodies.

Yes, Sir. The Report has been laid before Parliament and will be available in the Vote Office at four-o'clock this afternoon. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland and I should like to take the opportunity to express our indebtedness to Lord Simonds, the Chairman, and to Lord Morris and Lord Thomson for their valuable services.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) what reply he made to the representations made to him by the deputation which he recently received from British Actors' Equity Association on the regulation of backstage accommodation and conditions;

When I received the deputation on my right hon. Friend's behalf, I promised to consider carefully what the deputation had said and to convey its views to my right hon. Friend.

Arising from Question No. 29, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that although it is eleven years since the Gower Committee on Health, Welfare and Safety in Non-Industrial Employment reported on the deplorable conditions in which the entertainment industry works, if anything conditions have got worse since then, particularly, according to Equity, in commercial television and B.B.C. rehearsal rooms, where sanitary conditions are deplorable, both sexes change in the same dressing room and toilet accommodation is non-existent? In connection with Question No. 30, is the Joint Undersecretary aware that the main reason for these representations is that managers who employ actors frequently have a financial interest in the agency which acts as the intermediary and that when an actor pays 10 per cent. to the agency he is paying it back to the employer for the privilege of working for him?

I told the deputation, which I saw partly at the invitation of the hon. Member, that the Government would consider the subject of the hon. Member's first Question in the light of any consequential legislation following upon the passage through the House of the Offices Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Greenwich (Mr. Marsh). The subject of the hon. Member's second Question is a technical matter of some complexity on which there are different opinions, but I promise to consider it further.

asked the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations what consultations he has had with representatives of the Commonwealth concerning suitable joint celebrations on Commonwealth Day to mark the significance of the Commonwealth as a multiracial society founded on racial equality.

None, Sir, for the reasons given by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer in reply to a Question by the hon. Member for Islington, East (Mr. Fletcher) on 3rd May.

Would the Undersecretary of State reconsider this suggestion? Does not next Tuesday provide a first-class opportunity for making clear throughout the Commonwealth and the world that the Commonwealth, as an association of independent nations, depends upon the recognition of racial equality and the rejection of policies based on racial discrimination?

Yes, Sir, but one of the problems here is that Commonwealth Day is not observed officially in any member country of the Commonwealth other than the United Kingdom, and I think that the emphasis given at the end of the communiqué to this very point, to which the hon. Member referred, is a sufficient statement of the importance attached to it.

asked the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations whether, in view of the fact that the Mayor of Vereeniging has now opened a fund in aid of the dependants of those killed at Sharpeville, including British protected persons, he will make a contribution to this fund.

The High Commissioner has been asked to ascertain and report whether any of the dependants of Basuto who were killed are citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies and are suffering hardship and, if they are, to consider whether they could appropriately be helped through the Basutoland Government.

Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that the Mayor of Vereeniging showed great courage in opening this fund and that he hoped that it would aid British protected persons if any were found to have been injured? Will the Government show equal courage by supporting the Mayor with a contribution to this fund?

The point is that if we can help any of our own people's dependants who have been put in distress we should try to do it on the basis that we help them and not give help in an indiscriminate way.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Her Majesty's Government have helped funds in various countries in which British protected persons were not involved and will he not help this fund in the same way?

I think that the proposal I have made is preferable in this case, because it would direct any assistance that is forthcoming to the proper kind of recipient.

asked the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations whether he has completed his inquiries into the arrest of United Kingdom citizens and British protected persons in South Africa; and whether he is satisfied with the arrangements which exist for obtaining information from the South African Government.

As I informed the House on 5th April, the South African Prime Minister has assured the United Kingdom High Commissioner that as soon as any person arrested as a result of the emergency has been identified, to the satisfaction of the Union Government, as being not a South African citizen but a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies, or a British protected person, the High Commissioner, or his representative, may have access to him.

asked the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will request the United Kingdom High Commissioner to seek the permission of the Government of the Union of South Africa for the inspection by the International Red Cross of prisons and detention camps in which British subjects and British protected persons are detained.

No, Sir. As my hon. Friend informed the House on 5th May in reply to the hon. Member for Islington, East (Mr. Fletcher) so far as is known, only two citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies are at present detained in the Union of South Africa under the Emergency Regulations, and the High Commissioner has reported that neither has any complaints about conditions of detention.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that information has been reaching this country that conditions in many of the South African gaols are disgustingly primitive? Is he further aware that there was a very serious typhoid epidemic in the Fort Prison in Johannesburg a year ago when it was substantially less overcrowded than it is today? In view of the fact that the International Red Cross inspected detention camps in Kenya, will he not do what the Question asks?

It is perfectly true that the international committee has, with the agreement of the Colonial Office, and also with the agreement of the British Red Cross, inspected detention camps in Cyprus and Kenya, but it has no right to investigate conditions in any country, and can do so only with the agreement of the Government concerned.

asked the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations what reply was given by Her Majesty's Government to the request from the National Democratic Party for a constitutional conference on the future of Southern Rhodesia to be held before any amendment of the Constitution or withdrawal of the reserve powers of the United Kingdom.

When my noble Friend the Secretary of State received a deputation from the National Democratic Party on 28th April, he told it that he did not know if any amendment of the Southern Rhodesia Constitution would be made; or if the circumstances in which that might be considered would be such as to make it desirable to call a conference; or, if a conference were called, what its composition might be. The attention of the National Democratic Party has since been drawn to my statement in this House on 9th May.

Is the Minister aware that the deputation of the National Democratic Party is much appreciative of the courtesy with which it was received by the Secretary of State? But, in view of the direct relationhip which exists between the United Kingdom and the Africans of Southern Rhodesia who enjoy the protection of the United Kingdom, would it not be far more satisfactory in the consideration of any amendment of the Constitution for all parties to be consulted rather than that direct negotiations should take place between the United Kingdom and the Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia, who represents only a minority of that country's population?

I do not think that the hon. Member would argue Chat it is not right that discussions on this important question should take place first between the Government of the United Kingdom and the Government of Southern Rhodesia. What might be the composition of a conference on the constitutional future of Southern Rhodesia is a matter which I have previously explained would be for decision at a later stage.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there is to be a constitutional conference in Nyasaland and it is surely entirely reasonable that Her Majesty's Government should draw the attention of the Southern Rhodesia Government to the desirability of a conference in Southern Rhodesia at the present time?

This is a matter on which I have answered a number of Questions on a previous occasion. I explained to the House on that occasion that, as a result of the last discussions which had taken place between the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia, various ideas were under discussion and thought at the moment, and that until those had been properly analysed and studied it would not be possible to make a decision on the matter.

The right hon. Gentleman says that matters are under discussion. Will he not indicate that it is desirable that after those discussions have been completed a constitutional conference should be held?

Until we are quite certain what matters will come before a constitutional conference it would be premature to make an announcement on that subject.

asked the Minister of State fox Commonwealth Relations how Her Majesty's Government propose to assess the interests and opinions of Africans in Southern Rhodesia in consideration of changes proposed in the Constitution of the Colony.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer given by my hon. Friend the Under-Seeretary of State to the hon. Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan) on 3rd May, and also to my statement of 9th May.

Is the Minister aware that the overwhelming mass of Africans in Southern Rhodesia are opposed to any amendment of the Constitution which would remove the protective clauses? Will he bear in mind that the chiefs in Southern Rhodesia are civil servants, and as such are subject to the directions of the Prime Minister of that country and therefore are in no way representative of public opinion?

I am not aware on what evidence the hon. Gentleman bases his statement, but, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said, in the event of any change being made in the Constitution of Southern Rhodesia the interests of Africans would be given full weight, and that undertaking remains.

How?

My hon. Friend is aware how thorny this subject is. Will he at any rate undertake to sound opinion in this House, either publicly or unofficially, before any final decision is taken?

As I think has been the practice for many years, the opinion of this House with regard to any great move that may have to take place is invariably ascertained at the appropriate time.

Cannot the Minister be a little more forthcoming? Is he aware that public opinion in this country is generally anxious about this matter, as there are no African representations at all in the Legislature of Southern Rhodesia, and no constitutional change should be made there without rinding some means of ascertaining the opinions of Africans?

As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has said, the views of the Africans will be given full weight, and therefore it will be necessary to make sure of their views at that time.

How exactly will the opinions of the Africans be obtained?

That is a matter which will have to be considered at the appropriate time.

Are we to understand that the Minister and the Secretary of State have given no consideration to this problem of how to ascertain the opinions of Africans? If they have given consideration to it, cannot we be told what their plans are?

I explained to the right hon. Gentleman on a previous occasion that we were still in the preliminary stages of the discussions and consideration of the subject. When the due time comes for these matters to be raised in concrete form, naturally I shall have great pleasure in telling the right hon. Gentleman and the House what they are.

asked the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations if he authorised the Proclamation for Swaziland which empowers the Government to expel any immigrant without the right to appeal to the courts and which gives absolute discretion to the High Commissioner to grant or to refuse residence permits and to attach any conditions when they are granted.

Normal immigration into Swaziland is governed by the Swaziland Immigration Proclamation, 1956, and the African Immigration Proclamation, 1959. The High Commissioner, with my noble Friend's approval, has recently taken powers to grant, in his absolute discretion, special permits for entry and residence if satisfied that the circumstances of any particular case so require. These special permits may be cancelled by the High Commissioner at any time without assigning any reason, and it is provided that the grant, refusal or cancellation of such special permits cannot be made the subject of legal proceedings. These special provisions are for use in exceptional cases only; the provisions of the 1956 and 1959 Proclamations regarding normal applications for entry and residence remain in full force. These provide a right of appeal to the courts in certain circumstances when persons are deemed to be prohibited immigrants.

While recognising the non-discriminatory character of this Proclamation and that in that respect it is an advance on the present practice, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it would not be desirable to say that there should be a right of appeal to the courts in all cases and whether he can give us an assurance that political refugees from 'the Union of South Africa will not be returned to Chat country?

The hon. Member is aware that there is another Question on this subject later, on which I hope to answer the right hon. Member for Middlesbrough, East (Mr. Marquand).

Is it not now clear that the continuation of the office of High Commissioner within the Union of South Africa makes it virtually impossible both for the political refugees in these Territories and for the inhabitants of the Territories to exercise the constitutional right of access to Her Majesty?

No, Sir. By no means. The position of the Resident Commissioner in each of the Territories is a very important one and their positions and responsibilities are often overlooked by hon. Members in this House.

The hon. Gentleman said that I was aware that there was a Question to be asked later covering the point that I made in my supplementary question. I am not aware that there is any Question to be asked later covering the point of an appeal to the courts.

I have already given an Answer to the hon. Gentleman on that, but I assure him that this does not depart from the provisions of the existing Proclamation with regard to entry and residence in the Protectorate. There is no appeal from decisions on those matters to the courts, except, as I said in my Answer, in circumstances where persons are deemed to be prohibited immigrants.

asked the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations how many full-time agricultural officers are now employed in the Bechuanaland Protectorate.

In the Bechuanaland Protectorate there are five posts of agricultural officer, of which one is at present vacant. The vacancy has already been advertised. There are also seven agricultural and livestock officers, all of whom have diplomas in agriculture, and 108 agricultural demonstrators.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Does he believe that this is an adequate number to be able to deal with the agricultural problems in the Bechuanaland Protectorate? Will he do everything in his power to see that that number is increased?

We are certainly very alive to this problem. It is proposed to increase the number of agricultural demonstrators to 113, and other proposals are also under consideration.

asked the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations whether he will designate a suitable town within the Bechuanaland Protectorate as the capital, so that the capital may lie within the borders of the Protectorate.

Whilst there would be some advantage in having the headquarters of the Bechuanaland Protectorate Administration located inside the Protectorate, a move would also involve some disadvantage, in particular substantial capital expenditure and higher recurrent expenditure than at present. My noble Friend considers that other objects deserve a higher priority.

I again thank my hon. Friend for his reply, but may I ask whether he realises that this is the only country in the world where in fact the headquarters of the Government are outside their own territory, and that there are certain people living in the territory who are in fact emigrants who are not allowed into South Africa and therefore cannot go to the capital of their own country?

I appreciate the force of my hon. Friend's contention. As I have said, a move would undoubtedly have advantages, but the Government have inherited the present position which arises from past history, and we have to consider the matter in the light of the finance available to undertake various desirable projects, and the Protectorate needs every penny it can get at this time for economic development, improved education, and health services.