asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will use his influence to see that the Richard Thomas and Baldwins capital issue is made in all ordinary shares, so that no part of the company's capital remains in either preference or debenture stocks, which would be less easily sold.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the Answer which I gave him on 26th January.

But a lot of water has gone under the bridge since 26th January. Can my right hon. Friend tell us how big the issue will be and when it will be made? Does he not agree that it would be unfair to the taxpayer for the public to have the equity shares, which can rise to a premium, and for the Government Department to be left with the preference and debenture stocks which will stand at a discount?

I agree it is most important that a big sale of assets of this nature should be made under conditions which will give the best return to the taxpayer. Of course, the responsibility for deciding on and recommending the best method lies with the Iron and Steel Holding and Realisation Agency. I think that I must leave it to that body to give me its advice.

:Is the Chancellor aware that we do not accept that the responsibility lies with the Agency? It lies with the Chancellor and the Government. At the moment, there is no problem because 52 million people own all the capital of Richard Thomas and Baldwins, and they are getting a terrific return on the capital of this most efficient unit of the steel industry. It is returning great profits to the nation every year, and it does great credit to the whole concept of nationalisation. Only the vandals doing this kind of thing are responsible for this kind of nonsense.

Most of the rather long supplementary question which the hon. Gentleman has asked deals with the policy of denationalisation, which is not raised in this Question. As regards the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I did not say that the responsibility for action or decision lay with the Agency but only the responsibility for deciding the best method and recommending that to me.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is because of Government policy that this great problem with which his hon. Friend is confronted arises at all? Can the right hon. Gentleman advance any reason at the moment to show that it is not working efficiently in the interests of the nation? Is it not a fact that where any big steel combine has been denationalised the only thing that has happened is that the majority of the capital has stayed in public hands and that all that has been denationalised is the profit?

The reason for our present policy in this respect is the welfare of the nation at large.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman two questions, to which I would like an answer? First, on the merits of the case, is there any single word to be said for denationalising this firm? Secondly, since the workers have played a very considerable part by skill and service, can they be consulted?

The answer to the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is "Yes". The answer to the second part is that this step will also be in the long-term interest of the workers.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what are the main tax reductions that have taken place since the Budget of April, 1951; and how much greater he estimates that the taxation revenue would be for the current year if the 1951 taxes still operated.

I am circulating a brief summary of the main changes in the OFFICIAL REPORT. As regards the second Dart of the Question, it is estimated that the yield from Inland Revenue duties would be about £1,300 million higher in the current year if the 1951 rates and allowances were in force. No worth-while comparable estimate can be made of the yield from indirect taxation because it is impossible to assess the effects on consumer spending of the higher level of direct taxation in 1951 and because with 1951 rates of indirect taxation the pattern of consumption would probably be different.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the £1,300 million per annum which he and his Conservative predecessors have taken from the shoulders of the taxpayer is an action for which we are very grateful, that some of us hope that the newspaper reports to the effect that he will not reply to Questions are wrong, and that he will continue to give us his good news for many years to come?

I think the nation as a whole is well satisfied with the progress made in this direction.

Is the Chancellor also aware that the amount that he is actually taking in Inland Revenue duties from the taxpayers exceeds that of 1951 by over £31,000 million a year?

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that the reason for this is that the real income of the nation as a whole has risen so greatly?

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what has been the annual revenue since April, 1955, from the Excise duty on British wine; how much has been contributed to the total each year by cider and perry of an alcoholic strength of 15 degrees of proof or more; and what are the estimated yields in each case for 1960–61.

As regards the revenue from the Excise duty on British wines, a number of figures are involved and I will, with permission, circulate them in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Separate figures for cider and perry, strengthened to 15 degrees of proof or more, are not available.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the firms producing cider or perry of 15 degrees of proof or more number less than half a dozen, and that their accounts have been published which show that the revenue paid on the strengthened cider or perry is less than £100,000 a year? Will my right hon. Friend agree that this amount, while of microscopic proportions if looked at on the national scale, is a heavy burden on the firms concerned?

I am not quite sure about "a heavy burden" because the firms have the alternative of either paying the duty or reducing the strength of their beverages below 15 degrees. Apart from the revenue returned, I have also to consider the question of fair treatment in competition with British wines.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will set up a capital investment board to advise him on the priorities and appropriate scale of capital investment which has to be financed by the Treasury.

No, Sir. The general question of Exchequer financing of capital investment is an integral part of Government's responsibility for the national economy as a whole and could not usefully be referred to such a board though Government may wish to take independent advice on specific issues. In my view the existing arrangements are adequate.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that, as the Government are now responsible for a wide field of capital expenditure, and as Parliament should be in a position to comment on this matter in an informed manner from time to time, it would be an advantage if such a committee were set up and published a report, which the Government could then refuse to abide by or otherwise, but at least Parliament would have an opportunity of commenting on it?

The question of Parliamantary control is rather a separate one, but the Government consider this is an integral and very important part of the control of the economy, and it is our view that the responsibility must be ours, and ours alone.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in view of the fact that Her Majesty's Government is the biggest shareholder in Eastman Kodak Company Limited, which has a majority shareholding in Kodak Limited, what control the Government exercises over the policies of these companies; and if he will make representations to the board of directors in favour of the recognition of trade unions.

It would be contrary to long-established practice to disclose details of the assets of the Exchange Equalisation Account, and I am therefore not prepared to say whether the hon. Member's assumption is correct. But in any event Her Majesty's Government exercises no control over the policies of these companies. The question of the recognition of trade unions is one for Kodak Limited to decide.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that one of the directors of the Eastman Kodak Company Limited recently told a gathering of workers of the firm that the Government were the biggest shareholder? Therefore, I take it that I can continue to act upon that assumption. If that assumption is correct and the Government have this important influence in the firm, in which there is a dispute about the recognition of trade unionists, will not the right hon. Gentleman use his influence, even if it is only temporary, in favour of getting trade unions recognised?

The answer to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is "No". As to the second part of the question, the hon. Gentleman is entitled to make what assumptions he likes, but I have neither confirmed them nor denied them.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will state the net sum paid in Income Tax by farmers in respect of their farms in each year since 1947; and what proportion of the subsidy paid to farmers in each year is represented by the tax paid by farmers in that year.

I regret that this information is not available.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that the total sum paid in agricultural support prices in the current year is approximately equal to the estimated total net income of all farmers for that year? Would he further agree that a substantial part of the sum paid to the farmers in support prices is returned to the Treasury in the form of taxes paid by farmers?

As to the first part of my hon. and gallant Friend's supplementary question, I would say from memory that the net income of the industry is rather higher than the total cost of agricultural support. With regard to the second part of the supplementary question, I sincerely trust that an appropriate part of the income is returned to the Treasury in taxation. I would confirm that it amounts to a substantial sum, but what proport on it represents I am not, unfortunately, in a position to tell my hon. and gallant Friend.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he intends to allow overseas visitors to bring their motor cars to England for the current holiday season without the formal Customs documents hitherto required and now abolished by most Western European countries on the temporary importation of foreign motor cars.

Our situation is different from that of other Western European countries. The present arrangements safeguard the high import duty and Purchase Tax charges on imported road vehicles without undue inconvenience or delay to overseas visitors. While therefore I cannot hold out any hope of dispensing with the Customs documents to which the hon. Gentleman refers, I should be ready to consider any alternative scheme which would provide effective safeguards for the revenue.

Surely the Chancellor agrees that this would be valuable to the tourist industry? Surely, on the face of it, it ought to be easier for Britain to control the import of cars, with a sea crossing and so on, than it is for a Continental country? Will the right hon. Gentleman have another look at it and see what can be done?

I will keep on having a look at this, because the more we can get rid of restrictions of this kind the better is will be. So far, however, a satisfactory alternative way of protecting the Revenue has not been found. We have to remember that the number of cars coining into the country is rising every year now. Our peculiar conditions are a high rate of import duty and a high rate of Purchase Tax, and, as has been said, there is the sea crossing. In these circumstances, it has so far been found difficult to devise an alternative way of protecting the revenue, but I will most gladly consider any suggestion which may be put to me.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that certain other countries—Belgium, in particular—have that problem and have overcome it and that we appear to be very old-fashioned and somewhat ridiculous in this regard? Does not this warrant a much closer examination? Only Spain and Portugal are left, apart from ourselves.

I think that some of the other countries have had to do it almost faute de mieux because they could not control the passage of cars across their land frontiers. That is the reason why their problem is different from ours. Still, I recognise the desire and will continue to look at the matter. As I have said, I will consider every practical alternative suggestion that is put to me.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if, in view of the increasing difficulties juveniles are experiencing in finding apprenticeships, he will allow suitable tax concessions to those firms who are prepared to employ apprentices supernumerary to their normal establishment.

I am afraid that I could not see my way to propose special tax allowances in the circumstances to which the hon. Member refers.

Is the Chancellor not aware that this problem is becoming very much more difficult, and will get more difficult as time goes on, and that the Industrial Training Council is making very little headway? As it is consistent with Conservative policy to give a substantial concession to something which is thought to be in the interests of young people, will not the right hon. Gentleman have another look at this matter and see what can be done?

I recognise the importance of encouraging more apprenticeship schemes. All legitimate expenses incurred on such training are already allowable for tax purposes. The hon. Gentleman is really asking for a sort of double allowance, and that would open the door very wide and raise very great complications and have repercussions in other instances of equally desirable expenditure.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will make available a copying machine for the use of hon. Members and their secretaries, in view of the greatly increasing burden of clerical work which their constituency and parliamentary work now demand.

I am advised that a copying machine is already available in the Fees Office for use of hon. Members and their secretaries. If hon. Members find existing facilities inadequate, they may care to make representations in the first instance to the House authorities.

While my hon. Friends and I and, I suspect, some hon. Members opposite are glad to have this information, which they did not have previously, may I ask the Chancellor whether he will look at the matter again, because on inquiry I have found that this facility, which is widely available in every kind of office elsewhere in the country, is available to hon. Members only if they pay 6d. per foolscap copy and 4d. per quarto copy? Is not this a rather ridiculous arrangement? Will the right hon. Gentleman look at it again and see whether we cannot have this facility freely available to us?

I do not want to deny hon. Members reasonable facilities. I agree with what the hon. Gentleman says about the utility of this type of machine. I do not think that if I had to provide another one it would entirely destroy the basis of my public investment expenditure programme. Therefore, I will pay attention to any representations which the House authorities might care to make to me.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will now state the outcome of his consultations with representatives of the trustee savings banks on the proposal for a limited cheque system.

My hon. Friend the Economic Secretary met representatives of the Trustee Savings Banks Association to discuss this proposal on 28th April. It was agreed that a number of points raised would be further examined by the association and that discussions would be resumed in due course.

Is the Chancellor aware that the trustee savings banks have been waiting for fifteen months to put this public service into operation and that the staff are very impatient to get on with it? Will he assure us that he will not be influenced by fears from commercial banks of competition from this public service?

There are a good many aspects of the problem to be considered. The administrative arrangements involved will be quite formidable and will need careful examination. Legislation will also be required before any change of this kind can be made.

Will the right hon. Gentleman also take into account that the trustee savings banks lend him £800 million at 3 per cent., which is much less than he has to pay now on Treasury bills?

I am most grateful to them for all they do.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what complaints he has received about the burden of mortgage interest rates; and what replies he has sent.

The Treasury has received 30 letters since the beginning of the year about the rate of interest charged on building society mortgages. The reply has been that the rate of interest on mortgages must remain a matter for settlement between a society and its borrowers.

Is the Chancellor aware that many of the 3¼ million borrowers from building societies are getting a raw and rough deal, the more so in the light of the Government's airy talk about encouraging a property-owning democracy? If the right hon. Gentleman intends to look at this building societies problem at all, will he have a searching inquiry made into their management costs? They are the only moneylenders who can alter a contract when it pleases them—very quickly when the Bank Rate goes up and very slowly when the Bank Rate goes down.

In response to the rather critical tone of the hon. Member's question, I must say that I think the building societies do a very fine job. It must be remembered that they have to borrow before they can lend. [An HON. MEMBER: "Why?"] The rate at which they can borrow must be related to the demand on and supply of capital, and they cannot be insulated from the effect of market prices.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how many of these letters of complaint he has received from local authorities in Scotland? Is he aware that local authorities in Scotland would provide local work for the unemployed if the rates of interest were not so high? Is he further aware that there is a great deal of indignation because high rates of interest make the housing problem more acute?

But even then the fact must be faced that the rate of interest on money borrowed must be related to the supply of capital available.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what consideration he has given to the joint report of the British Association for the Advancement of Science and the Association of British Chambers of Commerce on the conversion of coinage to the decimal system.

I am studying this interesting report but have no statement to make at present.

Does the Chancellor not think that, in view of the very large number of reports which have been issued on this subject over the years and of some of the statements made in the Hodgsor Report on Weights and Measure; Legislation in 1951, at least some steps might be taken towards consulting the Commonwealth on this problem, which will have to 'be faced in the near future?

It is a problem of great importance in the long term, and therefore I think that the Government would welcome most strongly an expression of public opinion on the whole matter.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in view of the importance of extending the Scottish tourist industry, if he will state his proposals for making loans, on favourable terms, for the building, extension, and improvement of hotels in Scotland.

More good hotels are desirable in Scotland and in this country as a whole. But a case has not been made out for giving assistance from public funds.

Does the Chancellor not realise that high unemployment, depopulation and beautiful scenery all combine to make the suggestion in the Question a desirable one and that in neglecting the north of Scotland he is repudiating promises made by his Government during the General Election? If the right hon. Gentleman has self-respect, will be get his Government to rectify this?

I hope I have self-respect, and it is for that reason that I should like to quarrel most strongly with the hon. and learned Member's statement that the Government are neglecting Scotland. [HON. MEMBERS: "oh."] The truth is exactly the opposite.

Of course they are.

Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the most effective way in which he can help the hotel and tourist industry in this country, as represented to him continuously in the last two or three years by the representative body, is to reduce the excessive rate of Purchase Tax on the equipment they require in these hotels?

As my hon. Friend knows already, I think that the interpretation of the Purchase Tax Schedules acts quite generously towards the equipment of hotels.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what, under the existing grant scheme for the publication of Welsh books, was the average amount paid for each book published; how much this represented per copy; and what is the intended amount, similarly, of payment under the increased grant already announced.

It is the University of Wales Press Board that is responsible for the detailed administration of the grant scheme. I have asked the board to let me have periodical information as to the working of the scheme. In the light of such information I hope to be in a position to make a report shortly.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that statement, may I ask whether that report will be published? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that at the moment there is no provision for giving a grant for the reprinting of Welsh books, hundreds of which are now out of print? Will he give further consideration to some provisions by way of loan for financing the stocking of books so that a sufficient number can be printed at one and the same time so as to avoid this difficulty? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some Welsh publishers in the past have refused a grant or returned it as inadequate and have requested the University Board to lump two or three grants together and reallocate the money in respect of one book?

This was a generous addition to the grants for the publication of Welsh books. I cannot hold out any hope that it will be extended, but I certainly intend that the report shall be available to the public and I will send the hon. Member a copy.

Is not the sum now being paid pitiable? Will not the right hon. Gentleman discuss with the Minister of Education the possibility of giving assistance to the publication of Welsh schoolbooks which, as the right hon. Gentleman should know, are in very short supply?

The sum involved has been trebled this year.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs approximately what proportion of local authorities still dispose of their household and trade refuse by tipping or other means without first recovering any metal, glass, paper or textiles from it.

My right hon. Friend has information from 464 authorities, including most of the large ones. Forty-five do not recover any of these materials.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many villages in the Mitford and Launditch Rural District Council area, Norfolk, are without a piped water supply.

I understand that 31 parishes in this rural district are without a piped water supply. Eight of these may soon have piped supplies as a result of schemes which the council have under consideration.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that only one-third of the villages in this area have a piped water supply? Would he not agree that it is a thoroughly disgraceful state of affairs in 1960 that so many people living in rural areas should be denied a decent water supply? I realise that it is the local authorities' responsibility, but could not the Parliamentary Secretary instruct the slack local authorities in their responsibilities and impress upon them the importance of providing a decent piped water supply to people in such areas?

My right hon. Friend would like to see more progress in this area. No doubt the regrouping proposals now being considered will help.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what regulations he makes to control the terms of contracts for goods or for works placed by local authorities.

I have no power under the law to make any such regulations.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the form of tender for the supply of police gloves issued on 15th March, 1960—[HON. MEMBERS: "Reading."]—by the city council of Newcastle-upon-Tyne had attached to it a condition, and here I quote:

"None of the articles"—

I have to insist upon the rule about quoting. Perhaps the hon. and gallant Member can summarise the facts.

The condition was that none of the goods supplied in respect of the tender should be of South African origin. [HON. MEMBERS: "Reading."] Is my right hon. Friend further aware that this idiotic boycott, thought up by the party opposite, is likely to do greater harm to innocent people, including Africans—[HON. MEMBERS: "Reading."]—and others—

Order. If there be less noise there might be more progress.

—and others who deplore racial discrimination than to those responsible for racial policies in South Africa?

Without entrenching upon responsibilities wider than my own, I must tell my hon. and gallant Friend that I deprecate any such conditions in a tender for issue by a local authority, but I have no power to forbid it.

On the facts of the matter, is the Minister aware, and will he convey it to his hon. and gallant Friend, that the boycott did not originate with the party here? The request for this boycott came from those people in South Africa, many of whom are now in jail without trial, who wanted some moral succour in their distress?

My sole concern is with the action of local authorities, and, as I say, I do not think it is proper for local authorities to encourage boycott conditions of this kind, but I cannot prevent them.

Whether he thinks it is proper or not, would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that this is a matter on which local authorities ought to be entitled to please themselves, because a great many people feel as strongly in favour of the boycott as the hon. and gallant Gentleman feels against it, and it enjoys the support of people of a good deal greater distinction than the hon. and gallant Gentleman?

The duty of local authorities is not to please themselves but to please the people who elect them.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what response has been made to his Deparment's circular sent to local authorities concerning the planting of more trees, and the cleaning of industrial cities and towns; and what further action he intends to take in this connection.

It is difficult to measure the response to the circular issued in 1956 about planting more trees, but there are indications of increasing interest. As regards cleaning industrial cities and towns, local authorities for many industrial areas have sent my right hon. Friend their plans for establishing smoke control areas, and he will be publishing this information shortly.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary agree that when it comes to a question of the need to increase productivity and increase output, which means that the working classes must work harder, there is great drive at modern jet speed, but that when it comes to improving the localities where they live we travel at stage coach speed? Will he consult his right hon. Friend with a view to sending out another circular in order that this matter can now be treated as one of extreme urgency and so that we can keep pace with the way the world is moving in improving the areas where people live and work?

I think as useful as a circular is the example given by Norwich and by the hon. Gentleman's own area of Burslem where, as a result of local initiative, the city centres are being cleaned up.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what action has been taken by the local authorities on clearing or improving colliery slag heaps and land; if he is satisfied with the progress made and the speed of the action taken; and what are the prospects in north Staffordshire and Lancashire.

A number of schemes for reclaiming old spoil heaps for other uses or for improving their appearance have been carried out or are now going ahead. My right, hon. Friend would like to see much more done; but progress does appear to be quickening in many districts, including Lancashire and Staffordshire, whose planning authorities are keenly interested in this work.

No one appreciates that sympathetic Answer more than I do, but here again, does the Parliamentary Secretary agree that we are moving at a very slow speed? In view of the large resources lying derelict which could be improved with very little expenditure, will the Parliamentary Secretary consult his right hon. Friend with a view to speeding up this matter?

My right hon. Friend sent out a circular last year and has just asked for a progress report from all local authorities.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will now announce his decision with regard to the development of the Café Monico site.

My decision was announced on 19th May.

May I take this opportunity of congratulating the right hon. Gentleman on a wise and courageous decision taken firmly in the public interest? May I also congratulate his inspector on an exceptionally lucid and imaginative report? May we now take it that the Minister and his Department will give every assistance to the London County Council in drawing up a comprehensive development plan for this area?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he said about my inspector and myself. Planning control often makes people angry, but if it did not exist I think things would happen both in town and country which might make them angrier still. It is certainly my desire to collaborate as effectively as possible with the London County Council in securing the drawing up of a comprehensive development plan which I hope will give general satisfaction.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what correspondence he has sent to the St. Pancras Metropolitan Borough Council with regard to its decision to close the public gallery during the next three council meetings; and whether he will make a statement.

I have sent no correspondence. I have no statement to make.

Is the Minister not going to deprecate the activities of this Tory-controlled authority in excluding the public from meetings, in the same way as he deprecated the action of a Labour-controlled authority in excluding the Press from meetings last year? Would he not agree that his statement on 6th July last year should apply equally to Tory-controlled as to Labour-controlled councils?

I understand that in this case it has been necessary for the council to adjourn on several occasions while interrupters were removed, and that on the last occasion eggs were thrown from the public gallery and demonstrators chained themselves to their seats. I can understand the council authorities wishing to take some effective action in such circumstances.

But does the Minister consider that local authorities ought to exercise a right of collective punishment over their electorates, and will he draw the attention of St. Pancras Council to the words he used a little while ago in answer to a supplementary question of mine, that councils are elected not to please themselves but to please their electorates?

It is extremely doubtful whether the demonstrators are pleasing anybody but themselves.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether, in connection with the anti-litter campaign which is to be put into effect, he will issue a circular suggesting to local authorities and all those providing outdoor entertainment, such as race meetings, that more litter baskets should be set up, in view of the fact that, although many people wish to keep litter off the ground, there are no receptacles, and in view of the difficulty of carrying about such litter as banana skins and orange peel.

Repeated recent circulars to local authorities and a campaign guide, by the Department and the Keep Britain Tidy Group this year, all include this advice.

Will the hon. Gentleman give more publicity to these circulars with a view to seeing that baskets are provided? Is he aware that the public would be glad to have an opportunity of putting its litter in the proper places, but that receptacles are frequently not available?

The number of bins has been increased, but no amount of bins can cope with same occasions. We must hope that the public will arrange to carry its litter away until it can dispose of it.

Carry it to where?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what general rule he follows as to the interval which must elapse before he will agree to hold a further local inquiry into an appeal for planning permission for residential development on land not so zoned in a development plan, and where there has been no material change in the facts of the local situation.

Whenever an appeal is made to my right hon. Friend against the refusal of planning permission, he is obliged to give the applicant and the local planning authority an opportunity of being heard. Whether in the circumstances envisaged by the hon. Member he should hold another local inquiry, or arrange for a hearing, or invite the parties to agree to the appeal being dealt with on the basis of written representations, would depend on the facts of the particular case.

Cannot this be regularised in some way? Is it not the case that in connection with an area on the South Coast the Minister recently turned down an appeal relating to a small piece of land three times in two years, after all the paraphernalia and expense of a local inquiry, and even at the end he refused to award costs against the appellant? Should not it be made quite clear that these continuous re-appeals should not he made in respect of land the future of which has already been decided?

My right hon. Friend has powers to award costs if he thinks appeals have been brought frivolously or vexatiously.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he will make a further statement on the future of Euston Station.

I cannot yet add anything to my reply to the hon. Member's Question a week ago.

Has not the British Transport Commission said that although it will pull down the Doric Arch in such a way that it can be re-erected, it does not propose to provide the money to re-erect it? Is it not the case that only the Minister can now save this historic building which everybody with any interest in the matter—including the Royal Fine Art Commission—is anxious to preserve?

I understand that negotiations will go on between the British Transport Commission and the London County Council on this matter.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs in view of the increasing problems and hardships facing gipsies in finding places where they can live in caravans within the law, and the difficulties that arise in providing accommodation for those who are prepared to make the change, if he will make a statement in respect to the application made to him by the Kent County Council for his approval in setting up a permanent gipsy encampment, giving details of the main features of the proposal.

My right hon. Friend has amended the Kent Development plan, on the application of the county council as local planning authority, and after a public local inquiry, to allocate land at Great Chart in West Ashford Rural District for a caravan site for gipsies and other travellers, and to designate it for compulsory acquisition.

I thank the Parliamentary Secretary for that reply, and also the West Ashford Rural District Council for its courageous and humanitarian decision, which is in marked contrast to the shameful treatment of gipsies in other parts of the country. Will he do what he can to develop this idea, especially for the sake of the children involved, so that in future this country will be in a much better position to criticise the treatment of coloured people in other countries?

My right hon. Friend has already welcomed the efforts made by this local authority to provide for the needs of these people.

Does my hon. Friend appreciate that it is widely felt that this picturesque and harmless community is in danger of being crushed out by a rather soulless bureaucracy? Will he pay a little more attention to its interests in future?

This example is one that may be followed.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will initiate discussions with local authorities about the possibility of agreeing standards of play-space for children in all housing schemes in which development takes the form of flats.

The hon. Member will, I think, be pleased to know that this matter is already under consideration by the Housing Standards Subcommittee of my Central Housing Advisory Committee, which is taking evidence about it from local authorities and others.

Will the Minister give an assurance that when he receives the report from the Committee he will do everything he can to speed this up? The high cost of land and the shortage of it is compelling many families with children to live in blocks of flats, and often they have no place outside where they are allowed to play. In view of the fact that this is essential to happy childhood and that many planning authorities already require the provision of space for cars, is it not equally important that playing space standards should be provided as quickly as possible for children in new housing schemes?

The sub-committee is proceeding with its work as rapidly as possible and will report to the main committee in due course, but I hope it will present a report which I shall be able to commend warmly to local authorities.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware of the number of empty houses in big cities where there is a serious housing shortage; and if he will introduce legislation requiring landlords to pay rates on empty houses.

The numbers are not reported to me, nor could one attach significance to them without information about the reasons why the houses are empty and the length of time they remain so. I do not consider that to impose liability for rates on empty houses would materially affect the numbers.

Surely the Minister knows that, because rent control is removed when a house is vacated, many landlords exploit the housing shortage by holding out for high rents and high prices? Would not the levying of rates help to restore the balance in the tenant's favour and also reduce the waiting or empty period?

I am not aware of any exceptional percentage of houses standing empty at the present time, at any rate in England and Wales, and it does not seem to me that the owner of a house who thought he ought to be able to get a certain price and was not getting it would be likely to hurry to sell it simply because it was made liable to rates.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the owners of empty properties are benefiting all the time from various services which local authorities supply and that it is not unreasonable that they should make some contribution to them?

I would be reluctant to encourage the idea that rates ought to be charged according to the benefit received from local services.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what were the reasons for dismissing the application of the Willesden Borough Council to build dwellings in Oman Avenue.

The land in question is a small part of a large freehold estate; and as the owners are able and willing to build flats on it themselves I did not consider that the use of compulsory powers was justified to enable the Willesden Borough Council to build in their stead.

In view of the fact that the local borough council is responsible for building 750 dwellings for slum clearance, 402 for the clearance of prefabricated dwellings and 47 for rent evictions, is it possible for the Minister to reconsider his decision?

No, Sir. I have given my decision on this matter. It emerged at the inquiry that the council had enough land for its own building for five years ahead, and in the circumstances it seemed to me that the owners of this site, who wished to redevelop it themselves for flats, should be allowed to do so, rather than that it should be compulsorily taken from them.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he will consider the housing programme of the Willesden Borough Council up to and including the end of March, 1961, in order that delay in loan sanction shall not prevent the building programme which has been already agreed upon by that council.

I know of no reason for departing from the present practice of basing housing programmes on the calendar year; it is well understood by local authorities, and certainly need not lead to delay in the granting of loan sanction. I have already approved the Willesden Borough Council's housing programme for 1960 and shall be ready to consider any proposals for 1961 which it may put forward later this year.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. Is he aware of this gap between the fiscal year of the Borough Council and the calendar year to which the right hon. Gentleman works? The Willesden Borough Council hopes to start on 180 dwellings in the interim period, from January to March. Will he be prepared to give the borough council further sanction for these dwellings before the end of this year?

Yes. The council submitted its programme for 1960 to me on 28th April, and I approved it in full six days later. I would have been prepared to take it into consideration if it had been sent in six months earlier than that.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether his attention has been called to the proposal of the Monmouthshire County Council to subsidise steelworkers' houses to the extent of £30 a house for sixty years; and, in view of the resultant claim on public funds, what steps he has taken to satisfy himself of the need for this proposal.

The county council does not require my authority to make such a contribution to district councils in the county. I am given to understand that no payment will be made by the county council for any house in respect of which any subsidy from the Exchequer is paid.

Is my right hon. Friend quite happy to see the rents of well-paid steel workers subsidised in part by the Chancellor of the Exchequer and in part by other householders, who are often in much poorer circumstances? Is it not time that he and the Chancellor put their heads together to stop the squandering of public money?

I do not think that the Chancellor of the Exchequer comes into this matter. I am not aware that there will be any subsidy from the Exchequer in such cases. On the contrary, the money will come from the ratepayers of Monmouthshire. It is the law that county councils can exercise their own discretion in such cases. It seems to be a matter between county councils and their electors.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the case of Monmouthshire there is a subvention from the Treasury to assist the rate fund, so that the Exchequer, public funds and the poorer ratepayers will have to pay the rents of these well-paid steel workers?

Whether or not the county council is wise in what it is doing, I am not quite clear, but the law gives me no responsibility in the matter.

Since public money has been invested to a very large extent—without any protest from the benches opposite—in building the steel works at Llanwern, is it not appropriate that some money should be used to provide houses for the workers as well?

I am not going to commit myself. I believe in local authorities having discretion. Sometimes they use it wisely and sometimes less wisely.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the fact that estate and property invest- ment companies, dealing with working-class domestic property, have offered financial inducements to controlled tenants to vacate their dwellings, and that in such instances rents have subsequently been raised for new tenants of such dwellings by 100 to 150 per cent., if he will introduce legislation to protect new tenants in such circumstances.

No, Sir. To reimpose control on houses or flats which have become decontrolled would be a sure way of bringing it about that when next they fall vacant they would be sold and not let.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware of the letter that was sent to him by the Lea Bridge Tenants' Association—in my constituency of Leyton—about an investment company operating in this way? Surely it was not his desire or intention that the rents of decontrolled houses for working-class tenants should rise by 150 per cent. or 200 per cent.? Cannot he take some action in this matter?

What matters is not the percentage increase in the rent but its level now. If the owners ask for an excessive rent they will not get tenants.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a comprehensive statement of his plans for the development of representative and democratic institutions in the countries of East Africa for which he is responsible.

As has been made clear on a number of occasions, Her Majesty's Government's policy in respect of the East African territories is to build self-governing nations within the Commonwealth based on representative parliamentary institutions and on a general acceptance that every race and community have the right to maintain their homes there and to play their part in public and economic life.

In Tanganyika there will be an elected majority in the legislature following the September elections and, with effect from 1st October, a new Council of Ministers with ten unofficials, including a Chief Minister, with two Civil Service Ministers and a Deputy Governor. Her Majesty's Government's aims for Kenya are set out in Cmnd. 960. As regards Uganda. I would refer the hon. and learned Member to the Governor's statement in the Legislative Council on 22nd February, 1960, copies of which are in the Library.

A Commissioner is at present conducting a review of the present constitution of Zanzibar.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that his clear and detailed description is bound to do a great deal of good in clearing the air in East Africa? I thank him for it.

Is the Colonial Secretary able to add to his statement in regard to Uganda? Will he use this opportunity to make it absolutely clear that the advance towards a fully democratic constitution will in no way be impeded by the vested interests of feudal and tribal authorities?

I do not know on which point the hon. Member would like me to amplify my statement in relation to Uganda, but next month I am going to receive a representative deputation from the Legislative Council of Uganda, and I have also invited representatives of the rulers to come to see me, if they wish to do so. I think it only right to hear all points of view in considering this important advance for the country.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies on whose authority the police instructed youths to remove the Labour Party ties they were wearing when attending the May Day demonstration in Malta on 1st May, 1960.

I am making further inquiries into this incident and will communicate with the hon. Member.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I was there on 1st May and saw these Labour Party ties being removed from boys in the City Square? [Laughter.] While hon. Members on the other side may laugh, is it not time that these "Animal Farm" stupidities were ended under the dictatorship in Malta, where they bring ridicule on the Government even in the minds of the children?

It is a splendid tie. I cannot remember of which school tie it is a copy, but it is an excellent tie. I should like to look closely at this. The wearing of political uniforms is subject to an ordinance, and we all know that in this country and in other countries the wearing of shirts, for example, can obviously come within the definition of a political uniform; but I think that to apply that to ties would be taking it a little far.