asked the Postmaster-General how much money has been lost in each of the last three years, respectively, through Post Office robberies; how many robberies have taken place; if he is satisfied that the new steps he is taking to prevent robberies are adequate; if he is satisfied that the punishment which may be imposed upon those caught and convicted is sufficient to deter others; and if he will make a statement.

The amounts lost through robberies at Post Offices were £2,017. £7,290 and £5,421 respectively; and the numbers of robberies were 6, 28 and 17. The numbers of unsuccessful attempts at robbery were 20, 29 and 49. While the last-mentioned figures indicate that we are perhaps having some success in preventing robberies, this is not to say that we are satisfied with our security arrangements. I would assure my hon. Friend that we intend to go on trying to improve them. The question of punishment for offenders who are caught is not one for my right hon. Friend.

In view of the rather alarming figures of the attempts to attack Post Office workers, and thinking especially of the village and rural postmasters and post-mistresses, may I ask my hon. Friend to contact her right hon. Friend the Home Secretary to see whether more severe punishments can be imposed on these men, who have caused a great deal of trouble to people in rural districts?

The punishment is not a question for us, but we are prepared to do anything which will help in this matter.

Do the figures given by the hon. Lady include sub-post offices as well as Crown offices? Do they not indicate a rather widespread laxity in at least sub-office areas?

They relate mostly to sub-post offices, and only two relate to Crown offices.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a full statement on the consultations which have taken place between his officers, the British Transport Commission and the City of Stoke-on-Trent over the new Post Office headquarters in the City; what stage the plans have reached; whether it is intended to provide the most modern building and machinery including an underground electronic conveyor; and if the site will be laid out with trees, shrubs, and turf.

The scheme for a new main sorting office in Stoke-on-Trent has been cleared with the local authority. Close contact has also been maintained with the British Transport Commission, and the plans were referred to them some weeks ago. Building should start about a year from now and be completed two years later. The building will be a modern one. The equipment will not include an underground conveyor, as this would be uneconomic. The site will be laid out attractively, retaining existing natural features wherever possible.

asked the Postmaster-General when it is intended to provide a new modern post office for the increasing Meir area in the City of Stoke-on-Trent, and adequate telephone facilities for the Fenpark Road area of Fenton.

I am sorry but I should not be justified at present in building a new office to replace the Meir sub-post office which is giving a satisfactory service. I am reconsidering the question of providing a sub-post office in the adjoining Wood Farm estate and I will write to the hon. Member about this as soon a; possible. There are no people waiting for telephone service in the Fenpark Road district. An additional telephone kiosk is to be installed in Vivian Road within the next two months.

May I say how grateful the people of that area will be? Although it is in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South (Mr. Ellis Smith), I met the previous Postmaster-General on this subject when my hon. Friend was ill, and at that time we thought that there was no hope at all of achieving what we wanted. The people of this estate will be very grateful for that reply.

asked the Postmaster-Genera l whether, in view of the continuing concern of old-age pensioners and others at the lack of proper facilities for Post Office services at Mowmacre Hill, Leicester, and in view of the plans for future building there, which have now been put in hand, he will now provide a sub-post office suitably situated there.

I understand that the planned building development is not likely to start for some years. I can assure the hon. Member that when the time comes the question of providing a further sub-post office will be considered; but in the meantime I should not be justified in doing as he asks.

Could not the hon. Lady reconsider her decision about this not being justified? Does not she agree that if she provided for the minimum needs—that is what it amounts to—of the people at present at Mowmacre Hill, ultimately when the buildings go up the services would be available for the new people as well as for those who are there now? Does not she realise the difficulties?

I accept the hon. Gentleman's persistence, but I cannot accept his arguments. The land in question will be lying fallow for about eight years. It is the site of a disused sewage farm, and we cannot expect development on the land for seven or eight years.

In view of the many Questions arising in the House about the siting of sub-post offices, would not the hon. Lady consider a review of the arrangements for sitings, especially having in mind the hilly terrain and the situation of the residences of a number of old-age pensioners?

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's point. With the ever-increasing changes in our community life, we often find that the siting of post offices is not as good as we would wish. We are keeping this matter and the standards which we employ in deciding whether we need sub-post offices constantly under review.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps his Department is taking to commemorate next year the centenary of the Post Office Savings Bank.

It is certainly my intention that this centenary, which falls in September next year, shall be suitably commemorated; and I will make a statement as soon as I can.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. In view of the great services which the Post Office Savings Bank has rendered to this country for nearly a hundred years, will the right hon. Gentleman consider issuing a special stamp to mark the occasion and also providing extra facilities for its 22 million depositors?

I will give the hon. Gentleman's second suggestion consideration. In answer to his first suggestion, a commemorative postage stamp is now under way.

Would not the best way of commemoration be to give the loyal depositors in the Post Office Savings Bank a little more interest?

Having regard to certain concessions, they do not do too badly at the moment.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will provide more automatic machines selling books of stamps.

Yes, Sir. My aim is to provide machines selling 2s. 0d, books of stamps at Crown post offices generally. We hope to have a large number in position by the end of this year.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Is she aware that Acton Post Office warmly welcomes the prospect of having one of these machines installed, in the belief that it will ease the burden on the counter staff and will also help to reduce queues? Would she agree that she should be selective about the siting of these machines and that perhaps what is good for Acton is not necessarily good for "Little-Bindingin-the-Marsh"?

I agree that we have to be very careful about the siting of all our post offices.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will make arrangements to provide simple postal facilities, on a self-service basis, at conferences, exhibitions, and so on.

Yes, Sir. Two transportable suites of self-service machines selling stamps, stamp booklets and letter cards are now available for use at conferences and similar events. A posting box is incorporated in each suite. If they prove popular we shall provide more of them.

Is my hon. Friend aware that her reply will cause a great deal of satisfaction? May we have an assurance that a similar service will be available in the provinces?

Yes, certainly.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will establish a sub-post office at 4, Station Approach, London, S.W.6.

There are two post offices within half-a-mile of No. 4, Station Approach and three more within three-quarters of a mile. I am sorry, but I should not be justified in opening yet another office in the area.

Does the hon. Lady realise that this is a very populous area and that her reply does not sufficiently consider the very heavy pressure at the Putney High Street office which would be alleviated if this proposed office were established? Facilities in the Putney Bridge area, which are described in a letter to me as being of a good standard, are decidedly inferior to those in the Lower Richmond Road area. May I have an opportunity of discussing this matter further with the hon. Lady or with her right hon. Friend?

I would welcome a discussion on the matter, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman that it has been gone into very fully indeed.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will give details of the steps his Department has taken to study the application of space research for the long-distance telephone system.

The Post Office is in regular consultation with other Departments concerned with space research and is participating actively in the work of the International Radio Consultative Committee. My officials have also had exploratory discussions with other Commonwealth telephone authorities and with the American Telephone and Telegraph Company about the possible application of earth satellites to long-distance communications.

In view of that monumental labour by the Post Office, can the Postmaster-General say what conclusion the Post Office has reached so far?

Only in a very general sense. I am convinced, on the basis of technical advice which I have received, that there is a future in this field, and I believe that technically it is possible; but we have a great deal of further work to do on the financial and other implications.

Is not this problem becoming more and more urgent in view of the congestion of the existing cables and the high cost of replacing them with new cables? Would it not be better to make an early decision to go ahead with space satellites for this purpose?

I assure the hon. Gentleman and the House that there will be no delay in coming to decisions. At the same time, I should like to make it clear that, even if this form of communication should materialise in the relatively near future, it is still the view of all the principal administrations that we should require to maintain submarine communications as well.

asked the Postmaster-General what arrangements he makes for an independent costing of contracts given to manufacturers for the supply of telephone equipment.

The Post Office employs its own professional accountants and technical costs officers to investigate the books and the methods of production of contractors. We have complete freedom to decide which contractors shall be investigated and the extent of the investigation. We then negotiate prices as closely as possible in accord with the costs of the most efficient producers. The prices so fixed are paid uniformly to all the suppliers.

Is the Postmaster-General satisfied that that arrangement works satisfactorily in view of the statement made recently by Mr. Stanley that equipment could have been supplied at lower cost if this manufacturers' ring was not in operation? If Mr. Stanley's statement is correct, does it not seem that the taxpayers have been overpaying for a considerable time and that we might have lost millions through supporting this manufacturers' ring.

Mr. Stanley has made a lot of statements in recent weeks, not all of which have been completely accurate. At the moment, I am satisfied that our existing practice is right, that our cost accountants are most careful to ascertain the actual costs of production and that the lowest costs are applied to all Post Office supplies. In regard to the assertion that Continental costs of production are lower than in this country, I have been at some pains to collate evidence on that and I find that the cost of the French handset is rather more expensive than the corresponding article in this country. The German handset is cheaper than that produced in this country, but I should add, in fairness to the Post Office, that the total cost of the handset and of installation in Germany and in this country are almost identical.

Can the right hon. Gentleman enlighten the House and say what profit margin is allowed within his costing arrangements with these companies?

If the hon. Member would care to put down a Question about that. I should be glad to answer it.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will arrange for indicators, similar to those provided on pillar-boxes showing the next collection of mail, to be provided on the outside of all main post offices, so that members of the public will know, especially as regards the later collections of the day, whether they have posted in time for a particular collection.

We are already providing indicators at some of our Crown post offices and I will certainly look into the possibilities of providing them more widely. If my hon. Friend has in mind any particular office or offices at which he would like to see such indicators, I shall be glad to consider what can be done to meet his wishes.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply and for the advancement in this field, may I ask if she is aware that I have no particular post office in mind and ask whether she is further aware that it is most frustrating not to know whether an important letter catches the night post and that it might also at times be useful as the post office would be able to sell a night letter telegram?

We are always anxious to help our customers as much as possible and I will certainly consider what my hon. Friend has said.

asked the Postmaster-General at what offices he is experimenting with a reorganisation of counter duties based on counter staff handling all types of business.

Trials at Walsall, Watford and Weston-super-Mare were started earlier this year. They have lately started at a further thirteen offices including Brentwood, Clacton-on-Sea, Folkestone, Neath, Newark, Pontypool, Southall, Weymouth and York. Arrangements are now under way for them to begin at a further eleven offices. I am circulating the names in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Can my right hon. Friend give any indication of the reaction of the general public to the new arrangements when using these offices?

So far, the general reaction of the public has been very favourable indeed. I hope that we shall reach final conclusions on this changed method of working by the autumn. I am satisfied that, with the loyal cooperation of the Post Office staffs, we shall be able to make a substantial improvement in Post Office services

Whilst I have no objection whatever to the Post Office experimenting at all times to improve the service, may I ask whether the Postmaster-General is aware that, after a fairly long association with duties of this sort, I am inclined to the opinion that complete non-specialisation will in the long run be a bad thing for the Post Office and for the customer? I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman two supplementary questions. At the end of the experimental period, will he give serious consideration to the point which I am putting, because I put it in good faith? Secondly, has the right hon. Gentleman had any firm estimate yet of what would be the additional cost, for instance, in balancing time and so on, if his scheme of complete non-specialisation is introduced?

I cannot give an exact figure of what this change in our method of working will amount to, but I should say off the cuff that it will probably cost at least £¼ million a year. If, however, as I believe, by means of spending this money we can succeed in doing away with queues in post offices, it will be money well spent. I will certainly take note of the general considerations to which the hon. Member has referred.

asked the Postmaster-General what estimate he has made of the effect of the recent take-over bid by Pye of the Telephone Manufacturing Company upon the ordering of telephone and telephonic communications equipment by his Department; whether any reduction in prices of telephone instruments can be expected; and whether a fresh agreement will have to be negotiated with the new company concerned.

The Post Office does not have a separate agreement with the Telephone Manufacturing Company, which is a party to the bulk supply agreement for the supply of telephone apparatus. The transfer of control of the Telephone Manufacturing Company will not, of itself, require a new agreement, or a change in the system of ordering.

On the question of production prices, may I take it from the Minister's reply, and particularly from what he said earlier to my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mr. Darling), that he has no confidence whatever in the statement of Mr. Stanley that he would be responsible for reducing prices? Is it not a fact that members of this ring are in a privileged position and that only they can enjoy Post Office contracts? How does the Postmaster-General know that we are getting value for money when ordering this telephonic equipment When no other firm is allowed to compete?

The second part of that supplementary question is not quite true. If the Post Office is satisfied that it could profitably use the services of a company outside what the hon. Member calls the ring, it would be possible to order 10 per cont. of our annual requirements from such company or companies. If any of the companies which are party to the bulk supply agreements are able to manufacture equipment, whether telephone, cabling Or anything else, more cheaply than is done at present—that could conceivably happen in the new circumstances—that would lead to a saving all round to the Post Office.

How many times has the Postmaster-General contracted out in the past three years while the agreement has been in being?

There was one occasion about twelve months ago when the Post Office invited firms outside the ring to contract for cabling. No tenders were received. At present, we are considering the advisability of going out to tender for another bulk supply.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will consider referring to the Monopolies Commission the Temco system of providing telephonic communications equipment to the Post Office.

The Post Office has no agreement with Temco as an individual company. It is one of the eight companies with which the Post Office has a composite agreement for the supply of telephone apparatus. The question of a reference to the Monopolies Commission is a matter for my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade and I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer given by my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade to my hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Mr. Gresham Cooke) on 19th July.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that it was he who referred that Question to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade after it had been addressed to the Postmaster-General? Is not this a monopoly? In view of the pressure from both sides of the House concerning the existence of this ring, which is in a monopoly position, is it not time that we had either a reference to the Public Accounts Committee or an independent investigation by an outside body?

The question which my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade referred to me was a supplementary question as to whether a Government Department was being held to ransom in this matter, and it had nothing to do with a reference to the Monopolies Commission or with making a reference to the Restrictive Trade Practices Act.

Is it not a fact, whatever else may be said about this bulk supply agreement, that it has been in force for many years and during the whole time when the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Ness Edwards) was Postmaster-General?

That is perfectly true. This agreement has been in force for a period of about thirty years under Governments of varying political complexions, and, what is more, as I said last Wednesday, these arrangements have been vindicated both by the Public Accounts Committee and various other bodies during that time.

Is not the truth of the matter that the Post Office, having regard to its own experience and the experience of foreign post office companies, has come to the conclusion that competition is a thoroughly bad thing?

That, of course, is precisely where the hon. and learned Gentleman and I differ. I am prepared, as, indeed, are my hon. Friends on this side of the House, to look at these questions on their individual merits, and not to be doctrinaire.

Is not the position applying in the ring that the Standard Telephone Company is doing something in this country which by law it is prevented from doing in the United States and will not the right hon. Gentleman have regard to this fact, that a new agreement has been made within the last three years and that this agreement has never been under consideration by any Committee of this House?

I am not responsible for the laws which are on the statute book in the United States of America. I am concerned with the position in this country.

asked the Postmaster-General why the application of an ex-Post Office servant to be allowed to take employment with a non-ring firm was refused, whilst application for permission to join a ring firm was allowed.

I assume that the right hon. Gentleman is referring to two separate persons. I am satisfied that to authorise the second person to accept an appointment with the Marconi Group was proper and consistent with the principles which govern these matters. The Post Office has no bulk purchasing agreement with this Group and the specific intention of the appointment is to help in developing the export side of the Group's activities.

Is not the allegation made by Mr. Stanley in the document he has circulated that the Postmaster-General has given preferential treatment to the employment of an ex-Post Office official by the ring people and that they have excluded or kept out for two years another official who wanted a job with someone outside the ring who wanted to engage in the export business? Is he really satisfied that there is no basis for the allegation by Mr. Stanley?

I have not, I must say, seen the paper to which the right hon. Gentleman refers, although I have heard of it, but if the suggestion is that the second gentleman referred to in my Answer has been permitted to take up an appointment with a firm or group which is party to a bulk supply agreement with the Post Office, that suggestion is wholly without foundation.

asked the Postmaster-General what plans he has for providing a two-way television link between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

None, Sir. I have not been asked to provide a link by the broadcasting authorities.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that Northern Ireland is the only region of the United Kingdom which cannot televise programmes in the national network? Is he, further, aware that many first-class cultural and sporting events take place in Northern Ireland and that viewers in Britain would greatly appreciate being able to see them? Is he aware that it is vital to televise programmes from Northern Ireland if we are to play our full part in the progress of television in Great Britain and the Continent of Europe?

I am in no doubt at all about the high cultural value of television programmes in Northern Ireland, but it is the fact that the B.B.C. sets up its own temporary link when it wants to relay programmes back to this country. I have had no request from the I.T.A. for a link back from Northern Ireland to this country.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps he is taking to ensure an improvement in the reception of the British Broadcasting Corporation television programmes in north Cornwall.

The B.B.C. plans to build further low-power television stations in later stages of its satellite station scheme. It has in mind the need for improved reception in parts of North Cornwall.

Can my right hon. Fiend give me any indication when these new stations will be built? Is he aware that at the moment reception is quite appalling in many parts of the West Country, particularly north Cornwall, where the programmes are not received at all? Will he also bear in mind that the residents of north Cornwall pay exactly the same licence fee as those elsewhere in the country and should have exactly the same service at as early a date as possible?

I am aware that reception in north Cornwall is not as good as it ought to be, but it is too early yet to give my hon. Friend a definite date when the B.B.C. will move. I will gladly bring my hon. Friend's point of view to its attention.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps he proposes to take to improve the television and broadcasting reception over the whole of Yorkshire.

The B.B.C. has recently opened an experimental low-power television station at Sheffield and will increase the power later this year. It intends to provide a V.H.F. sound station at Sheffield and a television station at Scarborough. The I.T.A. has it in mind to plan for additional stations but I do not yet know its detailed plans.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask whether he appreciates that programmes received in that region are received in a very lukewarm way and that we feel that as a province we are being neglected? Will the right hon. Gentleman recognise that a county extending from the North Sea to within nine miles of the Irish Sea deserves far mire consideration than it is having from the British Broadcasting Corporation?

I have a great affection for Yorkshire and I should like the British Broadcasting Corporation and the Independent Television Authority to do all they can to help viewers in that county. I am satisfied that both authorities are doing all they possibly can.

Did I understand the right hon. Gentleman to say that this low-power station is in operation in Sheffield? I can assure him that my constituents' reception has not improved yet.

I said that the B.B.C. has recently opened an experimental low-power station which needs higher power. It will get higher power this year.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) if he will take steps to encourage research into the impact of television broadcasts on children;

I welcome some intelligent research on the influence of television on children, but I do not think it is for me to direct either the B.B.C. or the I.T.A. to undertake it.

Is the Postmaster-General aware that we have as yet no real means of knowing to what extent children can be harmed by the kind of television programmes criticised by this committee? Should not a lot more research be done on this? Meantime, is it wise to brush aside the strong recommendations of this committee for precautions?

I realise that there are differing views in different parts of the House on this question, but the view of the British Broadcasting Corporation and of the Independent Television Authority is that they do not believe that the needs of children should be allowed to determine the content of programmes during peak viewing hours. I am bound to say that I personally am in agreement with that view. They also point out that this is largely, though not wholly, a matter of parental control of children in the home. I think it is dreadfully easy to exaggerate the supposedly evil effects of television on children. I myself think that children are very much more intelligent and much wiser than some of us give them credit for. As for research, a good deal of research is going on, and the Granada Organisation is sponsoring research at two provincial universities at the present time.

Will not my right hon. Friend agree that there has been an increasing tendency both in the legitimate theatre and in the cinema to dwell on subjects which have sexual sadism as their theme? Is not this creeping into television entertainment as well? Has he not some responsibility for this? It is not only a question of the effect on children but the effect on viewers as a whole.

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend—

Then what is the right hon. Gentleman doing about it?

that there has been a tendency in that direction in the cinema and the theatre in recent years, but I do not believe that it has been so extensive on the television—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—as my hon. Friend would indicate. But I am perfectly prepared at any time when any Member of this House wishes to complain about any programme which features what my hon. Friend referred to as sadism and sex to make representations to either of the broadcasting authorities.

The right hon. Gentleman may leave it too late.

If the right hon. Gentleman is going to carry out his promise he will have a full-time job of complaining both to the B.B.C. and the I.T.A. Is he not satisfied now that the needs of the advertisers are determining the contents of the programmes and that that really has led to this degradation?

I think that that is a very unfair allegation to make against the Independent Television Authority. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh"] It is very easy to make loose accusations of this sort, but I am bound to say that my contacts with the Independent Television Authority have convinced me that it is a responsible body trying conscientiously to do a decent job of work.

Has the right hon. Gentleman read both last week's report and the Nuffield Report which led to it, and, if so, in view of the evident differences of opinion to which he has referred, why does he not positively encourage the research which is demanded in that report?

Because it is not my function to encourage research. That is the job of the British Broadcasting Corporation and the Independent Television Authority, and I am quite convinced that both authorities are responsible bodies which will give due and sufficient weight to those recommendations as they ought.

rose—

We cannot debate this at Question Time

asked the Postmaster-General what is the charge for a three-minute telephone call from Larne to Belfast; and if he will reduce this: charge.

The present charge is 1s. 0d. throughout the 24 hours. As from 1st September next, and in accordance with the tariff changes I announced on the 6th July, this charge will be reduced to 9d. for calls made between 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. and on Sundays.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for the slight reduction which he is offering, may I ask him whether he will consider reducing the charge of the calls from Larne to Belfast to the ordinary 3d. tariff charge? There is a number of places very much further from Belfast than Larne where one can make the ordinary 3d. call, and one can also make the 3d. call over greater distances elsewhere. The high charge of telephone calls is a definite disincentive to businesses opening up in Larne.

I will gladly look at this matter, but, as my hon. Friend knows, I should find it very difficult to meet his point of view without departing from the basis of charging, which applies in Northern Ireland and in the United Kingdom, on a group basis.

asked the Postmaster-General to what extent the system of timed local calls in Bristol and elsewhere has been successful; and what additional revenue has accrued thereby.

I believe that the public are well satisfied with the system. They are making more calls. About three-q carters are costing only 2d. instead of 3d. as previously. Local call revenue has so far remained about the same.

Is the Minister aware that this system is found by many people to be a rather burdensome imposition, especially when they telephone large organisations, hospitals and so on, and they are kept waiting on the line until the right person is found to produce the required information? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some hospitals ask callers to leave their telephone number and then telephone back, so that the Postmaster-General gets paid for two calls?

I should like to think about the point concerning cost to hospitals. On the general question, however, I think that the House would agree that it is wholly a good thing that people who are prepared to make short telephone conversations should get them more cheaply.

asked the Secretary of Slate for Air what action he proposes to take in respect of the complaint of bad food and the conditions in the Royal Air Force canteen in Nicosia, details of which have been sent to him by the hon. Member for Erith and Crayford.

The building in question is a temporary one which we hope to give up early next year. It is not ideal, but I cannot agree that the food or the conditions are bad. I am writing to the hon. Member about the detailed complaints in his letter.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for part of what he said about building, may I ask whether he can say why Service men in Cyprus continue to be served week after week with dehydrated potatoes that are most unpalatable?

Order. That is a matter trespassing on the next Question.

On a point of order. I am discussing Question No. 23—

I hope that I was not wrong in thinking that what the hon. Member appeared to be asking seemed to be trespassing on the next Question. I did not have much time to think about it, but if it is so, his supplementary question is out of order.

I should like to put it to you, Mr. Speaker, that in my letter to the Secretary of State for Air I particularly complained about the serving up of powdered "Pom" week after week.

However delightful is the phraseology in the hon. Member's letter, his supplementary question is out of order because it anticipates the next Question.

On a point of order. I am asking about food. If it is necessary in future that I stipulate all the items that I want to raise on the Order Paper may I take that I shall be permitted to do so? As I have said, I am talking about food and, believe it or not, Mr. Speaker, powdered "Pom" is looked upon as food.

I cannot adapt the rules of the House to each individual Member. Mr. Gresham Cooke.

asked the Secretary of State for Air why National Service men in the Royal Air Force are still fed on reconstituted potato powder instead of natural potatoes.

Potato powder is included in our emergency reserve stocks. Its storage life is limited, and in order to turn it over we issue it occasionally to all ranks—usually twice a month.

Is my hon. Friend aware that my constituents—I do not know about those in Erith and Crayford—are very fed up with this constant issue of reconstituted "Pom"? Will he give a categorical assurance that the R.A.F. is not using up war-time stocks of "Pom"?

The warranty for the life of this product is for two to three years. Therefore, I think that I can say categorically that we are not using up war-time stocks.

Why give it to the men?

My hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Mr. Gresham Cooke) made a distinction between National Service men and others. I can assure him that there is no such distinction.

Will the hon. Gentleman explain why in Cyprus week after week the men are getting powdered "Pom" which is most unpalatable? Is he aware that from both sides of the House yesterday there were bitter complaints about the dumping of potatoes from overseas into this country? Why cannot we divert them to Cyprus? I beg the hon. Gentleman to understand the revulsion felt by troops in Cyprus. Will he speak to the Chairman of the Kitchen Committee and ask him to arrange for some of this powdered "Pom" to be served for several weeks in the Members' Dining Room?

I can only say that the menus and messing generally in the R.A.F. are very satisfactory. I commend all hon. Members in all parts of the House to visit R.A.F. stations to see what is being served. As for Cyprus, in twenty-six days in June there was a choice for the midday meal between hot and cold dishes. "Pom" is used on two days only a month, as I said in my original reply.

Is this entirely an Air Force matter or do the "Pommies" get powdered "Pom" too?

We get the "Pommies" from the War Office.

asked the Secretary of State for Air, in view of the demonstration outside the Brize Norton air base on 16th July, what requests he has received from the United States Air Force authorities for additional security measures there.

None, Sir.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the American authorities are taking the law into their own hands, notably by photographing and cataloguing the faces of each of the hundred marchers, who were committing no offence? Does the hon. Gentleman approve of that and, if not, will he ask the American authorities to destroy the film, as certain British chief constables have been induced to do in similar circumstances?

There is nothing in the Question about photographs. I must look into that, but the question of security generally at R.A.F. stations used by the Americans in this country is a matter for the American Air Force authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will make a statement about the dismissal of the Reverend William Raine, who was until recently Free Church chaplain at Lindholme Royal Air Force Station.

Mr. Raine courteously told our Principal Free Church Chaplain last month of his intention to take part in a march of protest against nuclear weapons. In the course of very friendly correspondence and discussion he accepted the view that this did not fit in well with his official ministry at R.A.F., Lindholme, and he therefore agreed to resign. We are most grateful for the services he has given.

Does this mean that henceforth only those padres who speak the Gospel according to the Establishment will be acceptable? Can the hon. Gentleman say whether any member of the Service who might hold views similar to those of this padre will also be dealt with in the same way? Quite a number would like to feel that this was a way of relieving themselves of their obligations. Does the hon. Gentleman mean that henceforth the Minister will write the sermons to ensure that they are according to what the Establishment would like?

It means simply that we can hardly have as a chaplain on a bomber station of the R.A.F. someone who publicly advocates the view that Bomber Command's main task is morally wrong. The incompatibility appears to me obvious, and I gather that Mr. Raine is of the same opinion.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what night flying by jet aircraft has taken place in the Seaton Carew area of West Hartlepool in recent weeks.

Fighter aircraft from R.A.F, Middleton-St.-George have carried out night flying as part of their normal training programme. Aircraft approaching to land under ground control necessarily pass close to Seaton Carew.

Can my hon. Friend say at what height these aircraft cross the coast and what instructions are given to pilots to avoid residential and built-up areas?

Aircraft landing under ground control approach conditions pass close to Seaton Carew at heights varying between 2,500 and 7,500 feet dependent upon conditions.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he has been authorised to go ahead with the production of the TSR2 aircraft, or if he proposes to accept the NA39 aircraft in stead.

As the hon. Member was told on 13th July, there has been no change in the status of this aircraft. Development is proceeding as planned, but the stage has not yet been reached at which a production order is needed. On the second part of the Question, my right hon. Friend explained on 28th January, 1959, in answer to supplementary questions, the reasons why we were developing a new aircraft rather than adapting the NA39.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this matter has been going on for a very long time and speculation is rife about the Government's real intentions? Can the hon. Gentleman say when some clear decision will be taken? If a decision is taken that the TSR2 will go into production for the R.A.F., can he say what may happen to the NA39?

The hon. Member and the House know that the NA39 is a fully developed aircraft now and is in production. When the matter of the TSR2 was being examined we looked at the possibility of having a stretched version of the NA39 instead of ordering an entirely new aircraft to meet the new operational requirements. The question of time-scale also arose. There has been no significant change in any of the operational factors which led the Government to the decision to proceed with the TSR2.

Is it not a fact that the Canberra is already obsolete for low-level flying and that the NA39 adapted to ground take-off could be in service in at least half the time that it would take to produce a new aircraft?

The Canberra will remain effective for a number of years. To replace it we need an aircraft with a greatly improved performance capable of penetrating strong defences during a long operational life. Developing it should not take much longer than adapting the NA39 to overland operations in all weathers. To develop a new aircraft will be more economical, because the aircraft will last longer.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will now state the conditions under which United States aircraft operate from Royal Air Force airfields.

I can add nothing to what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has already said about consultations on the use of bases in this country by United States military aircraft.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that two weeks ago the Prime Minister said that he would consult the President of the United States? Is it true, as reported in the Press today, that the consultations began only yesterday?

I have not seen the report in the Press to which the hon. Gentleman refers, but I repeat that consultations have commenced and are going on. I believe that the hon. Gentleman has tabled a Question to the Prime Minister tomorrow, and it is not my intention to anticipate that.

asked the Secretary of State for Air in what circumstances an American schoolmaster was recently removed by force from the married quarters attached to the Royal Air Force Station, Finningley.

asked the Secretary of State for Air why William Fitzgibbon was dragged along the ground by Royal Air Force police at Finningley on 24th July; why he and Ronald Taylor were photographed by Royal Air Force police; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Fitzgibbon and Mr. Taylor, together with several others, entered Air Ministry property at Finningley on Sunday last with the declared intention of preparing the way for a demonstration to take place next week-end. They were asked to leave, but Mr. Fitzgibbon persisted in refusing to do so. After ample warning he was removed by R.A.F. police as a trespasser. No unnecessary force was used. Two photographs were taken before any incident occurred, simply as a precaution in case anything serious developed which might need further investigation.

Since tradesmen and political parties are allowed to deliver literature to these married quarters, is it not very stupid of the Royal Air Force to go out of its way to make a martyr of this man?

This was not normal commercial or political canvassing. It was action following up a threat of demonstrations of a type which have in the past taken the form of serious interference with work at Royal Air Force stations. The station commander felt bound to try to make the position clear before matters could possibly get out of hand.

But is it not seriously wrong that a man offering no violent resistance should be dragged by his feet along rough asphalt, during which process his shirt slipped over his shoulders so that his back was cut, requiring hospital treatment? Even if his removal were justified—which I question—why could he not have been carried?

He was being carried but he wriggled.

asked the Minister of Transport what plans he has for improving A.30 between Basingstoke golf course and the junction with A.33, such as by making the road a dual carriageway.

We are planning to provide dual carriageways but this will not be possible for some time yet, except on a short section near Dummer where we hope to authorise the work within the next two or three years. Meanwhile the existing carriageway is being realigned and widened.

While I thank my hon. Friend for that hope for the next two or three years, may I ask him to say why it was not possible, when the present alterations were being carried out, to make the relevant section into a dual carriageway at the same time?

It is not quite as easy as my hon. Friend thinks. Consideration was certainly given to that, but I am afraid that it was not practicable at that time.

asked the Minister of Transport 'when he hopes to begin and to complete the Andover by-pass.

Preparatory work on this scheme is still at an early stage and it is too soon yet to say when it will be possible to start construction. Thereafter the work should take between eighteen months and two years to complete.

Is my hon. Friend aware that his Ministry asked the county council to have contract drawings ready for a by-pass to be finished in December, 1961, and that plans for the purpose of acquiring the land were submitted to his Ministry on 11th March this year? Would it not be a good thing to press on with this? Why is there delay?

The position is not quite as my hon. Friend says. I understand that recommendations from the county council about the proposed route have only just reached our divisional road engineer. They will be submitted to our headquarters. If they are satisfactory, we can publish a draft order, so showing the effect of the proposed route on side roads as quickly as we can.

asked the Minister of Transport when he will be able to announce details of the line of the Witham and the Kelvedon by-passes.

The lines of the Kelvedon and Witham By-passes were established by Orders made in 1939 and 1958 respectively. A draft Order to provide for a short extension of Witham By-pass was published on 17th June last.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but when will something be done about building the road?

That was not the question I was originally asked. I was asked when I would be able to announce details of the line. We have had one of the lines since 1939.

Can my hon. Friend say whether the delay in starting these by-passes, the Andover By-pass and, even more important, the High Wycombe By-pass, is due to the fact that the cost of existing schemes has proved so much greater than the estimates that there is no money left to start new schemes?

No, it is not. So many people want to do so much work in so short a time that we have not the money to do all of it at once.

In view of the fact that the authorisations this year are lower than in previous years and that we are told that there is to be a standstill in Government expenditure, is the programme likely to be delayed still further?

I expect that the hon. Member will wish to elaborate that point in the debate which we are to have tomorrow.

asked the Minister of Transport when he expects to take the necessary steps to give a greater degree of independence to the regions of British Railways.

I am not yet in a position to make a statement on this subject.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that many of the older railwaymen who form the hard core of the service still think with pride of, for example, a region's safety record or good timekeeping record? Does he not think that we should do what we can to bring about a revival of this pride throughout the service by enabling regions to have a greater degree of independence?

A special advisory group is taking evidence from all classes of people, and I am sure that it will bear this in mind before it makes its recommendations in this respect.

As a Select Committee of the House has made a very thorough investigation of the railways and has presented a Report on the matter, will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that no action will be taken following the Stedeford Committee's recommendations until the House has had an opportunity to debate his own proposals in a White Paper that we can put side by side with the Select Committee's Report?

Decentralisation or any alteration of the areas would require legislation, and so discussions would be automatic.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in addition to his plans for nuclear tankers of 65,000 tons, he will consider inviting tenders for smaller nuclear ships, with particular reference to ships in the fishing industry, including factory ships and trawlers.

It is too early to consider this step for any but large ships.

If there are any scientfiic objections to the application of nuclear energy to small ships and fishing trawlers, which represent one of Britain's major industries, will the right hon. Gentleman specify what they are? Does he agree that it is wrong to discriminate against the fishing industry in this way, and will he give his whole attention to this very important suggestion?

I am grateful to the hon. and learned Gentleman for his important suggestion. I am bound to say that if nuclear power is to be applied successfully to merchant ships, it must be competitive in order to survive. Therefore, in the early stages, technically it will be necessary to apply it to large ships, and we will see what happens after that.

asked the Minister of Transport how soon after the closing date for the receipt of tenders for nuclear reactors he expects to place an order for a nuclear-propelled merchant ship; and to what degree the Royal Navy will assist in her development.

The Government will not be in a position to decide whether a nuclear-powered merchant ship should be built until the tenders have been assessed. This will be a highly complex task, and is bound to take several months.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the anxiety felt about the time the Galbraith Committee took to discuss the question? Also, did it not report some nine months ago? Will my right hon. Friend undertake to give his personal attention to this matter in order to try to get a nuclear-propelled merchant ship at sea as soon as possible?

My hon. Friend's supplementary question seems to me a little inconsistent. The Galbraith Committee recommended precisely the course of action which the Government have taken in order to get competitive tenders. As soon as the tenders are received, they will be carefully examined in detail.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this country is falling behind West Germany in respect of marine nuclear propulsion? Is not this one of the ways in which British shipbuilding could catch up again with our nuclear "know-how" applied to ship construction?

That is exactly what we are trying to do. As soon as the tenders are received, which will be at the end of the month, they will be examined most carefully.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will make a statement on his discussions with the shipbuilding industry about its future.

I have nothing to add to my Answer of 20th June to the hon. Member.

While I recognise that many of the difficulties facing the shipbuilding industry are not of its own creation, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he has seen some very serious criticisms made about the industry in a series of articles in Lloyd's List during March and April? Do not those articles require a serious reply or some action from him?

I have not seen the articles but will look at them and write to the hon. Gentleman. A sub-committee is considering shipbuilding, and I understand that the D.S.I.R. will be co-opted to it at some stage of the discussion so that the scientific and research aspect will not be neglected.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will now review the speed limit of 30 miles per hour still applicable to unladen light goods and pick-up type light vehicles.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will now consider raising the speed limit for cars towing light trailers.

My right hon. Friend is not yet in a position to announce his decision or these and other applications for variation of the speed limits applicable to certain classes of commercial vehicles.

Does my hon. Friend really suggest that the difficulty that the police have when contemplating a prosecution in establishing whether a vehicles loaded or not at the time outweighs the widespread inconvenience, irritation and nuisance of this rule?

The matter was gone into very carefully last year. I have recently been looking into it myself. The position is by no means as simple as my hon. Friend suggests. One of the main difficulties we had was that, with regard to goods vehicles in particular, the representatives of the trade union movement were very much against any change. On a matter of this kind we have to move with general agreement if we can get it, and that is what we are sec king.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the previous Minister of Transport a year ago gave an indication that he would consider this favourably, and that it has taken a year to say that nothing has happened? Can we be doing something, particularly with regard to light trailers?

The light trailer situation is a little different from the one dealt within the last Question. It is not easy to discriminate between various types of trailers drawn by private cars—ranging from small trailers carrying, perhaps, a dinghy up to the very large caravans. We are watching the whole position to see whether there is anything we can do about it.