asked the Minister of Labour if he will take steps to initiate discussions between employers and trade unions with a view to overcoming restrictive practices in the printing industry.

The printing industry already has machinery for discussing these matters. During the last year, I am informed that a number of discussions have taken place.

Will the right hon. Gentleman help to expedite the discussions, as, quite apart from the question of the effect of restrictive practices on the national Press, an increasing number of book publishers are being compelled to gel printing done abroad because of competitive prices and the general competitive state of the book trade?

On the other hand, my hon. Friend will, I think, agree that on the whole labour restrictive practices can best be tackled by both sides of industry acting jointly.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps he is taking to ensure that men declared redundant in various industries are informed of the vacancies in other industries and activities, and given every help in filling them.

My local offices keep in touch with employers, and when redundancy occurs or is imminent they make special arrangements to help the workers affected to obtain other employment. Constant efforts are being made to encourage firms to make early contact with my local offices when redundancies are foreseen. As a general rule, employers are co-operating well with the exchanges and the arrangements for dealing with redundancies are working smoothly.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a serious shortage of signalmen on the railways? What action does he propose to take to bring that sort of case to the notice of the employers?

That hardly arises out of the Question. In answering the hon. Member's Question, I wished to make it clear that we encourage employers to warn us whenever there are redundancies so that we can fill vacancies where-ever they may be. Signalmen would be included.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will consider recording and publishing the total time lost throughout industry as a result of a strike in one industry or section of an industry.

As my predecessor stated in reply to a Question by the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Woollam) on 11th May, it is not practicable to produce accurate figures of time lost at establishments affected by an industrial dispute elsewhere. However, as an experiment, we intend to try to obtain a rough estimate on an annual basis of time lost resulting from disputes in the motor car industry.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that we welcome that answer, because it is an undoubted fact that, although the time lost in industry directly affected by a strike may not in itself be very great, it may affect other industries very seriously indeed, and it would be of value to know the exact cost of a strike in any industrial dispute?

I thank my hon. Friend. I think he would agree that it is impossible to obtain accurate figures of time lost in any dispute which had wide ramifications, such as a dock strike, which could affect factories from John o' Groats to Land's End. We should require a huge staff to acquire and sift information which could be obtained only by making frequent and widespread inquiries.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are many returns now called for by the Government from industry, and that it would be a comparatively simple matter to get industry to record on one of those returns the time which it was estimated was lost as a result of industrial disputes elsewhere?

I hate to argue with my hon. Friend, but industry has said that it is already asked for too many returns.

Would the Minister agree that figures produced by the I.L.O. comparing time lost by strikes in the leading industrial countries throughout the world—worked out on the same basis for each country—show that the time lost in Britain was the lowest? Would he agree that perhaps too much publicity is given to strikes and not sufficient attention given to constructive efforts by both sides of industry to settle a number of complex problems peacefully throughout the year?

What the hon. Member says is quite correct; settlements made through the normal negotiating machinery get very little advertisement, but a great deal is done in that way. However, I do not think we should underestimate the damage to the economy done by a strike such as the recent dock strike. Some of these figures may be misleading, but I think it is very difficult to get exact comparison. That is why I replied as I did to my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr. John Hall).

asked the Minister of Labour what is the latest total of unemployed in the London area; and what three exchanges in the London area have the largest number of registered unemployed.

36,339 on 10th October. The answer to the second part of the Question is: Brook Green, Brixton and Edgware Road Employment Exchanges.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary say what the figures are for each of the three exchanges to which he has referred and why they are so high, taken as a percentage of the working population, in each of the three districts covered by those exchanges?

I can give the hon. Member the figures: Brook Green, 2,015 registered unemployed; Brixton, 1,581; Edgware Road, 1,564. I regret that I cannot give him any percentages, but it should be interesting to note that in Brixton in October, 1959, the figure was 2,207 and in the Greater London area there are twice the number of notified vacancies as there are registered unemployed.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will introduce legislation to safeguard from all forms of victimisation Her Majesty's subjects who have exercised freedom of choice to join or to remain outside trade unions.

I do not think legislation can solve these problems.

Does my right hon. Friend consider that Salford Corporation was wrong in dismissing my constituent, Miss Beryl Rogers, on 30th May, 1960, having given her no notice of the requirement that she should join a trade union—a copy of the notice she was given I have in my pocket, and it advises her of the terms of employment—because she refused to become a member of a trade union? If he does think this wrong, is he content to allow these matters to rest there?

I have written to my hon. Friend about my view. I expressed my sympathy with his reaction to people being unreasonably penalised for unwillingness to join a union, but I do not see how this particular problem can be solved by legislation. That is why I have answered the Question as I have. I think that most of these problems of victimisation arise because of the attitude of a minority of employers or workers. I still do not think this can be changed by legislation. I think it only fair to add that, in general, activities such as sending a fellow worker to Coventry are entirely against the official advice of the trade unions.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, according to the medical officer of health and the committee chairman, the lady in question was informed before she took the job that trade union membership was expected but she nevertheless accepted the job, she accepted the benefits which this union—N.A.L.G.O.—obtained for her, and Salford Council took this action only when her fellow workers protested? In view of the fact that she went into this with her eyes open, how could this be described as victimisation?

May I ask—

The Minister was about to answer.

I think I have explained my view fairly clearly on this subject.

May I ask—

I think we must get on.

asked the Minister of Labour how many St. Helen's children, due to leave school in the summer of 1960, found employment; how many took advantage of his Department's training scheme in the area; and how many children were unable to find employment in the St. Helen's Employment Exchange area.

In the county borough of St. Helen's, 855 boys and girls left school this summer. On 10th October, seven boys and two girls were seeking employment. None is receiving apprenticeship training in a Government training centre. Nineteen boys and forty-seven girls are known to have found work outside the borough.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary say what financial assistance his Ministry is prepared to give children attending the Government training centre from as far afield as St. Helen's in Lancashire?

Government training centres do not offer facilities to boys unless they are apprenticed to some firm. Those who are apprenticed to firms can, if the firm wishes, have first-year training given in a G.T.C. free of charge.

asked the Minister of Labour how many children who left school this summer were placed in employment; what was the total number of children who returned to school until jobs could be found; and how many school leavers are receiving his Department's training to fit them for jobs.

Out of 291,000 school leavers this summer, 3,953, or 1·4 per cent., were still seeking employment on 10th October. Young persons return to school for various reasons and it is not possible to say how many went back while waiting for jobs. One hundred-and-six boys, already engaged as apprentices by employers, are being trained under the first year apprenticeship training scheme and more will be taken in shortly.

Is the Minister prepared to extend this training scheme, in view of the large numbers of unskilled labourers on the labour market who cannot find work and in view of the shortage of skilled labour? Will the Minister consider more extensive training schemes to enable more young people to learn skilled trades?

These Government training schemes have only just started. It is hoped that many more will take advantage of this scheme. If there is a sufficient demand, my right hon. Friend will certainly consider an extension of the scheme.

In replying to the second Question try my hon. Friend, the hon. Gentleman referred to a figure of 106 boys throughout the country who, I understand, are now having first year apprentice training in G.T.Cs. Can he say whether it is the intention of the Government that these shall be extended next year to a much larger number?

Certainly it is expected that this will expand considerably in the next few months. Perhaps I should make it quite clear that the purpose of a Government training scheme is not to offer facilities of training for unemployed boys. The boys concerned are already apprenticed to firms. The facilities offered are first-year training as an example to industry of how good training can be done during the first year.

asked the Minister of Labour how many boys and how many girls recommended by youth employment officers for training as apprentices in 1959 had been accepted as apprentices by June, 1960; and how many had not been accepted by that time.

The information asked for by the hon. Member is not available.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary not aware that the Crowther Committee described the situation of apprentices from the point of view of the individual boy as alarming and, from the point of view of the State as disquieting? Is it not time that he had accurate statistics of the frustration caused and took more vigorous steps to remedy the serious situation?

I am well aware of many expressions which have been made about the situation. It is too early to give any figures, but I think it can be said that there is every hope that the figures this year will be an improvement over last year.

asked the Minister of Labour whether a decision has yet been reached on the financial provision to be made for Remploy Limited during the five years beginning in April, 1961.

During the financial year 1961–62 a grant of £2,750,000 will be paid towards the Company's running expenses compared with an estimate of £2,694,000 for the current year. The 1961–62 figure will be increased by £50,000 in each subsequent year to £2,950,000 in 1965–66. In addition, £1,750,000 will be made available during the five-year period by way of loan to cover capital expenditure, subject to any over-riding need to reduce public investment generally. Both these figures represent a substantial increase over those provided for the current five-year period and over the next five years should enable the Company to effect a progressive increase in the numbers of severely disabled persons employed.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that encouraging reply, may I ask him whether the success of Remploy does not largely depend on its increasing both its sales and its productivity? Could he say what progress has been made in both those directions?

I think that my hon. Friend is right. May I give him these figures: sales increased from £2,999,000 in 1955 to an estimated £5,450,000 this year, and net output per man rose over the same period from £223 to an estimated £430.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a comprehensive statement of the work done and plans for further work by the North-East of Scotland Development Association, set up by him jointly with the President of the Board of Trade to promote trade, industry and employment in the city of Aberdeen and the counties of Aberdeen, Banff and Kincardine.

A decision to set up the North-East of Scotland Development Committee was taken at a conference called by the Lord Provost of Aberdeen. The committee has not yet been formed. Neither my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade nor I are responsible for setting up such bodies, although, of course, we welcome local initiative in these matters in areas such as this where additional employment facilities are needed.

Is the Minister aware that this forms a very important aspect of his work? Does he not agree that although he now disclaims responsibility for this association, he should, in conjunction with the President of the Board of Trade, take steps to reinforce the association and to see that it does the very important and urgent work which it was set up to do and solves the relevant problems?

We do welcome the association but this question is one for local initiative. As the hon. and learned Member knows, Aberdeen is still a development district, and that is where the Government come in. I am glad to say that things have improved there. If he looks at the unemployment figures, he will see a rate of 2·7 per cent. in October of this year, compared with 3·6 per cent. in October, 1959.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware of the recent and sudden increase in redundancy in British industry which has created widespread unemployment among newspaper, motor and other workers; and if he will state his plans for securing their immediate reabsorption into employment.

I have nothing to add to the Answer I gave to a similar Question by the hon. and learned Member on 27th October.

Is the Minister satisfied that this sudden and unexpected redundancy in these two specific industries is not due to some secret plan on the part of the employers in these two industries to create a pool of unemployment for their own purposes? Will he make careful inquiries into that aspect of this problem?

I think that the hon. and learned Member is trying to use his imagination far too indiscreetly and inaccurately. As I explained in my Answer, the numbers concerned are not large in relation to the numbers employed. I also explained in my Answer that everything possible is being done to find employment for these men.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that it is quite untrue to suggest, as is suggested in the Question, that there is widespread unemployment in the motor industry? Does he not agree that the small-scale redundancy which has taken place in one or two places has been very well taken care of by the employment exchanges?

I entirely agree with what my hon. Friend has said.

While the numbers redundant may be small, is not the amount of short-time working very large and has not that, too, a catastrophic effect upon the family budgets of people who work in this industry? Does the Minister not agree that it is a most serious situation? Cannot the Government themselves produce some constructive ideas to try to help the motor industry instead of continuing credit restrictions and the rest, which make the industry's problems even worse?

Perhaps the hon. Member will put down Questions to the Presisent of the Board of Trade and the Chancellor of the Exchequer about the credit squeeze. I have tried to give a fair and factual answer to the Question put to me by the hon. and learned Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hector Hughes).

asked the Minister of Labour what estimate he has made of the unemployment which will result in railway workshops from the cuts made in the British Transport Commission's modernisation programme; and what steps he is taking to find employment for those rendered redundant.

It is too early to assess how far, if at all, production in particular railway workshops will be affected by the level of railway investment in 1961.

In view of the very alarming rumours circulating in Shildon and Darlington about the railway workshops, will the Minister give a categorical assurance that the promise that stability of employment in these shops will be maintained until 1963 still holds good?

It is impossible to assess how far particular railway shops will be affected by the level of railway investment. I can assure the hon. Member—and I have a direct responsibility for this—that there is the closest co-operation between the British Transport Commission and my Ministry and that we are given advance notice if there are redundancies. We are given plenty of time to assist in placing those who are affected.

asked the Minister of Labour what estimate he has made of the effect of the motor industry recession on employment in Wednesbury, Darlaston and Willenhall, and on the increase of short-time working in the area.

My information is that there has been no redundancy in this industry in these areas and that the only short-time working affects 115 workers in Darlaston.

Is the Minister aware that I had a deputation only last week from Willenhall from a firm where 400 men are on short time? Is he aware that my constituents are very concerned because there are violent fluctuations in the economy which mean for them a lurching from a period of excessive overtime to a period of short time? Is he aware that it is not satisfactory to say that only a few people are involved and that it is no comfort to those concerned when their incomes are cut by one-third?

It is also true that we have to keep these things in perspective and that the unemployment figures at 10th October were ·3 per cent. for Wednesbury, ·1 per cent. for Darlaston and ·2 per cent. for Willenhall.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will give the number of men, women, boys and girls, respectively, who are unemployed in the city of Plymouth; and what percentage the total of unemployed is of the population of the city.

The figures were 1,252, 727, 73 and 43, respectively, at 10th October. Owing to the volume of daily travel to work, a percentage rate of unemployment cannot be computed for Plymouth alone. For the wider area including Saltash and Torpoint, the rate is 2·6 per cent. of the insured population.

In view of the fact that Plymouth was removed from the Local Employment Act during the Recess, that the Admiralty employs 30 per cent. of the male insured personnel and that the new factories are likely to take only 60 per cent. of the female employees, is my right hon. Friend prepared to support an application to replace Plymouth in the Local Employment Act should the situation get worse?

As my hon. Friend knows, the Board of Trade estimate that the jobs in prospect in the area amount to at least 2,000. Together with the outstanding vacancies in Plymouth and Devonport, which total 873, these should reasonably meet the situation. No doubt my hon. Friend also agrees that in the last twelve months there has been a very great improvement in Plymouth, where the unemployment rate has fallen from 3·6 per cent. to 2·6 per cent., taking a comparison between this October and last October.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement concerning the rebuilding of the employment exchanges in Plymouth and Devonport.

The construction of a new building to house the Plymouth Employment Exchange began last May. Negotiations are in progress for a site on which to erect a building to house certain Government offices in Devonport, including the employment exchange.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, if, as a result of his visit to the West Country, he is satisfied that no adjustment is necessary in the Small Farmer Scheme; and if he will make a statement.

The Small Farmer Scheme is working well, and applications under it have been particularly heavy in the South West. Our advisory services are already fully extended, and I see no need for any adjustment at present.

While I am delighted, as is the Minister, that the Devon farmers are making such use of the scheme, may I ask whether he does not think that it would be more equitable if the scheme were based on the type of land farmed rather than, as at present, on purely arbitrary acreage limits?

It is not only on acreage limits. It is also on the basis of man-hours worked on the farm. The two are combined, and I think that that is the best arrangement which can be made.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if it is his intention to implement the recommendations of the Terrington Committee; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a statement on the Terrington Report.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what action he proposes to take following on the report of the Terrington Committee.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he has considered the views submitted to him by the Devon Cattle Breeders' Society upon the Terrington Committee's recommendations.

I hope to be in a position to make a statement very shortly. All the views which have been put to me are being taken into account.

When my right hon. Friend makes up his mind, will he bear in mind the fact that there is considerable opposition from both breeders' societies and the veterinary profession, who fear that there will be an influx into this country of disease, particularly blue tongue and foot-and-mouth?

I am aware that there are some who oppose it and others who would welcome the importation.

Is the Minister aware that, not only are breeders' associations concerned about disease, as my hon. Friend said, but they are also concerned about the effect the decision to allow the importation of these cattle might have upon our export trade? Does he not think that, having regard to the prizewinning successes of British breeders, there is nothing that a foreign bull can do that a British bull cannot do better?

All these matters will be taken into account.

Is the Minister aware that the people who will get the best out of this will be the consumers, who will have fat-free beef when these experiments are started?

That also will be taken into account.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if a review of the scheme for compensating beekeepers for the voluntary destruction of contact colonies has yet been completed; and if arrangements will be made for commercial beekeepers to be included.

My right hon. Friend is at present reviewing the Government's contribution towards the scheme operated by Bee Diseases Insurance Ltd. for encouraging the voluntary destruction of contact colonies in apiaries where European foul brood disease has been found. One of the questions is whether the Government contribution should be extended to cover commercial apiaries. The review will be completed before next year's season begins in April but I cannot, of course, anticipate the outcome.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the disease known as European foul brood has spread to Dorset for the first time, probably from Kent, and has caused very serious and unexpected losses to breeders there? Will he give a very sympathetic answer when the report of the committee is received?

I have told my hon. Friend that an exhaustive review is taking place, but he will appreciate that I cannot anticipate the result.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, who attended on behalf of Her Majesty's Government at the recent official conference on food and agriculture held in Rome; and if he will place records of the proceedings in the Library.

The European Regional Conference of the Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations was held in Rome from 10th to 15th October. As is usual with F.A.O. meetings of this kind, Her Majesty's Government were represented by officials from the Ministry. I will certainly place in the Library the official report of the Conference as soon as it becomes available from F.A.O.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, in view of the importance of the success achieved in the drying process evolved at the Government Research Establishment and experimental factory in dehydrating fruit, vegetables, cuts of meat and fish for easy storage and the quick preparation for the table in a palatable, nutritious and recognisable form, if he will arrange for the display of samples in some suitable place in the Palace of Westminster for inspection by Members.

Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friend will be happy to fall in with the hon. Member's suggestion and an exhibition will be held in the Upper Waiting Hall on Tuesday, 22nd and Wednesday, 23rd November. One of the Department's scientific officers will be in attendance.

Whilst thanking the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. Friend—I mean that quite sincerely—may I ask him if he will be good enough to take this matter up with the Chairman of the Kitchen Committee with a view to seeing whether some of these dried substances can be tried out in the Members' dining hall? We accept that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Hon. Members would then be able to see that public money has been well spent, and it might be some compensation for the disappointment about Blue Streak.

I should not like to intrude on the responsibilities of the Chairman of the Kitchen Committee. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman has a look at our Exhibition when we arrange it and then perhaps takes the matter up himself.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will take early action to implement the recommendations of the Engholm Committee on Plant Breeders' Rights.

The organisations representing interests affected by this Report have been invited to submit their views. These will need to be considered before decisions on the Committee's recommendations can be taken.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is already a tendency for some plant breeders and seed breeders to withhold new varieties from the market until they can avail themselves of the benefits of legislation when it is introduced?

I have that possibility in mind and I am anxious to get on with it as soon as possible, but I think that it is right to take into account the views of all interests concerned.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what arrangements were made for Lord Radnor, the chairman of the Forestry Commission, to have discussions with members of local councils and representatives of other local bodies regarding the provision of better amenities and additional welfare services, when he paid his recent visit to the new Forestry Commission villages in Northumberland.

The purpose of Lord Radnor's visit was to see for himself the conditions in these villages. It was not thought necessary to hold a formal meeting.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the visit paid by Lord Radnor was of a very casual and limited character? Does he realise that the result is that, instead of allaying anxiety, the reverse happened? I appreciate the difficulty the Minister has in intervening in a matter of this kind, but, as the Forestry Commission is a State organisation and the Minister is responsible, may I ask him whether he will discuss the matter further with Lord Radnor to see whether the conditions in these villages are satisfactory?

I am sorry that my hon. Friend should feel that the visit has not done good. In an Adjournment debate just before the House rose in July, my hon. Friend suggested that a senior official of the Forestry Commission should pay a visit. The chairman himself went, and he will discuss his visit with me later.

The Minister will remember that I supported the hon. Gentleman when he raised this subject on the Adjournment. The hon. Gentleman seems to have been treated in a very cavalier fashion. This matter is disturbing forestry workers in this locality. It seems clear that they have a legitimate grievance. Therefore, I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will respond to the hon. Gentleman's invitation to discuss this with the chairman and see whether further discussions can be held.

I differ from the hon. Gentleman in his view that this was dealt with in a cavalier fashion. The visit was made by the chairman himself, and he is coming to talk to me about it. The visit has already been arranged.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what he proposes to do about the flooding in the West Country.

I am in touch with the river boards of the areas concerned. All proposals from the river boards designed to alleviate flooding are receiving immediate consideration for grant-aid.

Is the Minister aware that the smallness of the grants provided for in the Land Drainage Bill has come as a shock to the West Country? As there is very serious flooding elsewhere, will he take steps to see that the financial provisions of the Bill are expanded before it comes up for Second Reading?

I should not like to prejudge the Second Reading of the Bill. The grants are affected by the amount of money which is raised on precept rate locally. The Bill will add another section of the population to those already subscribing towards river board funds, and the degree to which grants are available is well known to local authorities and river boards.

The Minister should think again about this. As recently as Thursday of last week there was water on either side of the railway line between Taunton and Bridgwater for as far as the eye could see. This state of affairs has persisted since long before the war. When will the Government do something to protect these people? The situation is absolutely shocking down in Somerset and Devon.

I cannot answer without notice the hon. Gentleman's statement that the present situation between Taunton and Bridgwater is a common occurrence. Generally speaking, it is important to bear in mind that the rains we have experienced in the past few weeks have been three, and even four, times the normal rainfall in certain areas.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will make a statement on his recent visit to Cornwall.

I have taken the opportunity provided by the Recess to visit various parts of England and Wales to meet people engaged in agriculture and to see their problems for myself. I was very glad to be able to include Cornwall and to see something of the high standard of farming in the county. I was impressed by the way farmers are making use of the grant schemes which are available to the industry, particularly the Small Farmer Scheme.

Is the Minister aware that we are very pleased that he visited Cornwall and thought the standard of farming so high, but will he remember that he told a constituent of mine that he was still learning a lot about the Agriculture (Small Farmers) Act? Will he try to expand the provisions of the Act or introduce fresh legislation applicable to viable farms under 20 acres in size, which are such a feature of the Cornish industry?

It is certainly true that I am learning a lot. I do not dispute that. However, at the moment our advisory services are fully taken up with the existing Small Farmer Scheme, and I do not at present see scope for expanding it.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will consider appointing a commission to look into the possibilities of reclaiming the large area of the Dee estuary lying between the coasts of Wirral and North Wales.

I understand that the possibility of reclaiming parts of the Dee estuary has been considered in the past. Our investigations of the proposals put to us so far have shown that the results would not be economic on agricultural grounds. If my hon. Friend has any further suggestions, we will gladly look at them.

Has my hon. Friend considered discussing this matter with the Institute of Hydraulics? Would he agree that land for both urban and industrial development is in very short supply in the North-West of England? Would he not also consider the transport amelioration that might come from such a scheme both in North Wales and in the Wirral?

The first thing would be to discuss it with my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether, in view of the low prices for barley and the difficulties and expense of the 1960 harvest, he will take steps to expedite the advance deficiency payment for the crop.

Yes, Sir. We hope to start sending out payable orders at least as early as we did in 1958, when the harvest was also difficult.

Is the Minister aware that that reply will give considerable satisfaction to the farming community? This has been a very difficult season. Barley has been put on the wheat market at a depressed price, and anything that he can do to get the farmers their cash earlier might result in a stronger market and in less subsidy, and less to be paid out by the taxpayer.

It has, indeed, been a very difficult market but, according to the corn returns, the market price for barley in mid-October this year was about 5½d. per cwt. less than it was at the same time last year.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will amend the Hares Preservation Act, 1892, to allow the sale of hares during the close season which could be shown to have ben legally taken during the open season.

My right hon. Friend is considering this with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Home Affairs.

In considering this, will not the hon. Gentleman recognise that the provision is wholly out of date, not merely because of modern methods of freezing but because in many parts, especially the Eastern Counties, there are so many hares that they are a nuisance?

Those are among the very things that we are considering.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the man who found it a delight to go out on a shiny night only did so in the season of the year?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether, in view of the recent flooding in the West Country, he will take steps to make river boards responsible for rivers up to their sources and not only for the lower reaches.

It is open to river boards to take over rivers up to their sources, and some have already made themselves responsible for upper reaches of rivers. The Land Drainage Bill now before the House proposes to increase their resources for this purpose.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there has been a great deal of doubt about these upper reaches that are largely responsible for the recent flooding, and that the Bill really implements the recommendations of a report made ten years ago? Things have changed since then. Will my right hon. Friend take this into account and make Amendments to his new Bill?

Doubtless, my hon. Friend will make such suggestions when the Bill is debated in the House.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he is taking to avoid wastage of this year's apple crop.

This must be the responsibility of producers and the trade who, I hope, will do all they can to distribute the maximum quantity and make full use of the storage facilities available. There are also a number of alternative outlets for apples other than the fresh fruit market.

I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for his exhortation, but he has a responsibility here. The Government took action when we were in difficulties over butter. Will not he assure the House that he will use his good offices to see that we get an orderly element in the apple market and do not suffer substantial physical losses?

I believe that this has been a record year for dessert apples, with about 310,000 tons—more than has ever been produced before. That is bound to bring difficulties with it, but it is for the trade and the producers to distribute apples, and not for the Government.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will make a statement on his discussions with the National Farmers' Union on the future of the agricultural industry.

As these discussions are still going on, I am not yet able to make a statement.

Is the Minister aware that his appointment was warmly welcomed by the agricultural community because it was understood to denote a change of policy? Does he realise that if he wants to keep that welcome warm he had better make a satisfactory statement as soon as possible?

I hope to be able to make a statement before Christmas on these talks.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what steps he is taking to set up a Government film unit to provide topical news and feature material for overseas television services.

This suggestion is under consideration.

Is the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster aware that there is an almost insatiable demand for television material in the world today and that this topical news and feature material can provide a first-class way of linking this country with certain other countries? There is a case here for special service.

I am aware of the very large demand. We are, as the hon. Gentleman may know, issuing nine newsreels and a great deal of other material each week. But I agree with the general proposition that this represents a form of information for which there is a great and growing demand which we must seek to meet.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what steps he has taken to prevent overlapping between the Central Office of Information, the British Broadcasting Corporation and the Overseas Departments in the production of sound broadcasting material for overseas.

Machinery exists for this purpose. None the less, in the light of the Select Committee's recent Report, it is being reviewed yet again.

I recall that the right hon. Gentleman expressed himself as satisfied with the previous machinery. Can we be quite certain that it will not prove to be the same machinery that he is now starting to reinstitute?

No, we must seek from time to time to avoid any unnecessary overlapping. We are looking at the machinery again to see that overlapping does not exist.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what progress he is making with the scheme for the provision of low-priced British books overseas.

I would invite the hon. Member's attention to the full Answer I am giving today to my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, South (Mr. Clark Hutchison). In brief, twenty-three university textbooks are now being produced. They will be followed by others. Arrangements are being made to produce a group of books to help those in Asia and Africa who wish to develop their English or extend their practical skills. Preparatory work to implement others of the Advisory Committee's recommendations is going ahead.

While welcoming the steps the right hon. Gentleman has taken to fill in the disappointing delay in the original Low-Priced Book Scheme, and while also welcoming the progress made with the publishers, may I ask whether he can say when the first lot of titles of the original Low-Priced Book Scheme will be available in Africa and other under-developed countries?

The first list of titles of textbooks is available in a Written Answer I have given today. I shall be informing the House in due course of other lists of titles, but I cannot give an exact indication of the time.

Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that he will exercise due discretion in the type of low-priced books he allows to go overseas?

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether, when initiating new pension rates, he will amend the earnings rule in favour of widows with children at school who are 18 years of age or over.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he will take early steps to raise or abolish the earnings limit on widows' pensions.

The earnings limits for widows were raised last March and I have no proposals for further changes in respect of these. The House will, however, be aware that proposals for improved provision for widows are contained in the Bill which I presented last week.

Does the Minister consider that a grant, either through education committees or through his own Ministry, should be given so that people are not in a worse position if their children are 18 years of age and clever; and that if this is not given it will be in direct contradistinction to the recommendation in Chapter V of the Crowther Report?

I am aware of the case that my hon. Friend has in mind, in respect of which I very much understand his feelings. However, the assistance given to a young man of 18 to continue with his education seems to me to be primarily a matter for the education authorities.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in Leicestershire and in the country generally there are a lot of widows working in hospitals who are asked to undertake longer hours by the hospital authorities but have to decline because they do not want to lose the benefit of their widow's pension under the earnings limit?

My hon. Friend will be aware that when the National Insurance Advisory Committee looked at the matter in its Report at the beginning of the year, it took the view that it was better to use any available money to increase rates of benefit rather than earnings limits, and, as he will be aware, that is what we are now doing.

Although the earnings limit for widows was lifted as recently as last March, would the right hon. Gentleman keep an open mind on the matter until we can consider widows' benefits and welfare as a whole when we look at the Bill? The earnings rule has to be looked at in relation to benefits, and I ask the Minister to restrain himself from being too dogmatic about the present situation until we can look at the position more clearly and as a whole when we come to the Bill.

I think that there was a minimum of dogmatism in my original Answer, which, indeed, covered substantially the same ground as that covered by the hon. Member for Sowerby (Mr. Houghton), inasmuch as I pointed out that what we were doing at the moment was to deal with rates.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what requests have been made to him by the British Limbless Ex-Servicemen's Association for improvements in payments to disabled ex-Service men; and what would be the cost of these concessions.

This Association has been good enough to put to me 28 resolutions adopted at their annual conference. These relate, inter alia, to rates of war disability pension. On this, I would refer the hon. Member to the statement which I made on 2nd November. Perhaps he will be good enough to let me know on which of the other items he would like further information.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that an important aspect of improvements in payments is that the disabled men should be paid at the correct rate? In view of that, will he arrange for a regular medical re-examination, say, every five years?

I do not share the view, which I think the hon. Gentleman has, that we should order an overall comprehensive medical review of the first war disabled. I am certain that some of them would resent it, and in other cases false hopes would be raised. But I fully share the hon. Gentleman's desire, for which we are working the whole time, to secure that every man gets the full benefits to which he is entitled.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that B.L.E.S.M.A. is grateful to the Minister for his new award, for the breadth of detail in the application of the award and for the new features in it, but that B.L.E.S.M.A. still has a number of claims which it would wish to put to the Minister? Would he be willing to receive a deputation from an all-party committee and from B.L.E.S.M.A. on this matter?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what is the estimated annual cost of the proposals submitted to him by the National Assistance Board for increases of scale rates of 3s. 6d. per week for the retired single householder and 5s. for the retired married couple; and what would be the additional cost if such amounts were increased to 7s. 6d. and 12s. 6d., respectively.

I am informed by the National Assistance Board that, of the figure of £18½ million given in the Board's Explanatory Memorandum as the estimated cost in a full year of the increases in scale rates provided for in the draft National Assistance (Determination of Need) Amendment Regulations, 1960, approximately £9½ million is attributable to the particular increases mentioned and to retirement pensioners among those who will be affected; and that if the increases in those rates for retirement pensioners only were 7s. 6d. and 12s. 6d., respectively, without comparable increases in the rates for other people, the additional cost would be about £11½ million. These figures, of course, relate to the direct cost of increases of rates of Assistance, and do not take account of the effect on expenditure by the Board of other changes.

Since that sum would hardly bankrupt the country, why not give an increase of 7s. 6d. all round? Does the Minister think it fair that those suffering most will receive less, and that while the poorest woman in the back streets will get only 3s. 6d., Lord Montgomery and others will draw 7s. 6d.?

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that if we take the whole process since the last overall increase in rates in 1958, the increase in single rates for retirement pensioners is 7s. 6d. and for the recipient of National Assistance 8s. 6d. Further, the point that he has made does not, I think, really tie up and is not consistent with the criticism that I so often hear from the benches opposite about the proportion of retirement pensioners receiving supplementation.

asked the Minister of Aviation, whether he will make a statement on his recent talks in Australia, and with the French and Canadian Government, about a joint space research programme.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will make a statement on a joint space research programme arising from his recent talks in Paris.

If a heavy rocket for satellite launching is to be developed outside the United States or Russia, there are substantial advantages for all concerned in doing it in co-operation with our friends in the Commonwealth and Europe. The Government have been and are exploring this possibility, but I would like to carry our consultations rather further before making any statement.

Would the Minister let us know a little more about how far this has gone? This has been going on for over a year and it is about time we did something about it. Will he assure us that his previous dislike of an increase in Government expenditure has not been carried with him into his new office, because if it has we shall be in a very bad way technologically?

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's interest in this matter, which I welcome. I have had talks in Australia and Canada, and I have recently been in consultation with representatives of the French Government. As we both share a desire to bring this matter to a successful conclusion, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will co-operate and give me a little time in which to reach a satisfactory conclusion.

Were these talks with the French based on Black Knight and Blue Streak, and were the French asked to make a financial contribution?

The suggestion I made to the French was that we should have full collaboration with them both in finance and technology. It was to be based on the work which we have done on the Blue Streak and Black Knight projects.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that far from being an uneconomical venture to join with our friends in a space enterprise of this kind, in the passage of years it will probably yield a substantial income, which is very close to the heart of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Aviation?

I think that in some of these large, important and necessarily expensive projects there is an argument to be made out in favour of friends co-operating together on them.

The Minister asked us not to press him as to when he will be able to conclude negotiations, and while we are willing to fall in with his wishes, could he give us any idea when these negotiations are likely to come to any finality—during the next few weeks or months, or is it indefinite? Is it to be a recurrence of the year's delay that we have already had?

I sincerely hope not.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the last eighteen months I have twice raised this problem on the Adjournment and each time I have been given to understand that the decision was coming very soon?

I do not think I can add to what I have already said to the hon. Gentleman. I share his desire to come to a conclusion, and I certainly think we ought to make up our minds before the end of the year what the answer should be. I hope the House will give me a little time to finish the talks on which I am engaged at present.

asked the Minister of Aviation if his attention has been called to the case of a young gliding instructor at the London Gliding Club who was recently killed, with his pupil, at Dunstable Downs, at whose inquest it was revealed that he had for some years suffered from epilepsy; and whether he will inform such clubs that all instructors must pass a rigid health test before taking up such employment.

This tragic accident has been brought to my notice, and discussions on its implications are taking place with the British Gliding Association.

In view of the very serious effect of ale illness that this unhappy man suffered, will the Parliamentary Secretary see to it that no person suffering from epilepsy shall be allowed to fly gliders? That should certainly have been one of the questions asked at the time the inquiry was made.

At the present time no powers exist to direct gliding clubs or individuals to impose these health tests. Naturally, this is one of the matters which we shall be discussing carefully with the British Gliding Association.

asked the Minister of Aviation what changes will be made in current orders for aircraft and spares arising from the proposed reductions in the investment expenditure of the Air Corporations for 1961–62.

None, Sir. The apparent reductions arise solely because payments for aircraft and other projects due in 1961–62 will be less than in the current financial year.

On the surface, is not this £27 million reduction in the capital expenditure of the Air Corporations a serious interference with their planned programmes? Can we be assured that they receive all the aircraft they are supposed to receive in this period? Will there be any effect on the aircraft industry by this chopping and changing, now that it is regaining its confidence?

As the hon. Gentleman has indicated, it is oily a discrepancy on the surface. No cut is involved and there is no change in the contemplated programme. It simply relates to the incidence of payments in a particular year.

asked the Minister of Health whether, despite the expiry of the agreement with the Association of Municipal Corporations, on the return of hospitals taken over from local authorities under the National Health Service Act, 1946, he will deal with the Tring Isolation Hospital in accordance with the terms of that agreement.

No, Sir. The agreement was a once and for all arrangement, applying to properties which were not held for hospital purposes at the inception of the National Health Service. This was not the case with Tring Isolation Hospital.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that my constituents feel very deeply about this matter? This is a hospital which was declared redundant in 1947. It was then taken over without compensation in 1948 and the local authority asked for it back in 1951. It has never been used, so far as I am aware, and now we are being asked to pay £5,000 to have it back. Will the Minister please think again whether he should not be a little generous in this matter?

This hospital was duly vested in the Crown on the inception of the National Health Service. It has since then been used for the purposes of the Service by being held available for emergency use. It would be quite impossible to treat it differently from any other Crown property.

asked the Minister of Health if he will state the number of geriatric beds in the Gateshead and District Hospital Management Committee; and how this compares with the average for the region.

One hundred and eighteen. This is 0·7 per 1,000 of the population, compared with 0·98 in the Region as a whole. Forty-one additional beds should be available by the end of the year, raising the ratio to 0·94.

Will the hon. Lady agree that the number of beds referred to is lower than the average for the region? If it is, will she say why this should be so? Does it not, in effect, mean a greater cost put upon the ratepayers of the local authority, a burden which they ought not to bear and which ought to be set against the National Exchequer because it is a national service?

The problem of caring for the old, is, of course, a joint problem for both the hospital authorities and the local authorities. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will agree with me that, where old people can be kept in their own homes, that is certainly the best answer. It is true that there has been a shortage in the area in which the hon. Gentleman is interested. There will be an improvement when the 41 additional beds come into use. In the meantime, the waiting list has been reduced. It is now only six. For the same quarter of 1959 and 1958, respectively, it was 25 and 34. I should add that all the cases were women.