asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he will make a statement on the progress of his anti-litter campaign.

My right hon. Friend believes that the work being done by public-spirited organisations and individuals up and down the country is having an effect and that more and more people are being brought to realise that leaving litter is a deplorable habit. But we have a long way to go before we can be at all satisfied.

Can my hon. Friend say whether the schools are co-operating in this work and whether he has any action to suggest for getting rid of the bus tickets and sweet papers which are scattered so much over the countryside?

Some schools are taking an interest in this matter. I should like to have notice of the other question. I will look into it.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what proposals he has for designating the Chilterns as an area of outstanding national beauty, and so preventing a unique part of England from being over-developed.

My right hon. Friend understands that the National Parks Commission is consulting the local authorities concerned on a proposal to designate an area in the Chilterns as one of outstanding natural beauty. The proposal will not come before him unless and until the Commission submits an order to him for confirmation.

Whilst I agree that this is a very praiseworthy idea, may I ask my hon. Friend he will continue to do what he can to preserve the beautiful parts of this country which have managed to survive?

That is my right hon. Friend's aim.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what research is being undertaken into the economic feasibility of the artificial underground recharging of aquifiers, in order to conserve excess winter rainfall to supplement available winter resources during the drier summer months; and whether he is satisfied that the existing administrative structure of statutory water authorities makes it possible thoroughly to exploit this method of water storage.

Work has been done in the Nottingham area on the chemical problems involved in returning raw water from the River Trent into the Bunter Sandstone; the object is to determine how far artificial recharge is feasible. If the results are favourable the next step will be to examine the economics of recharge.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the concern at the apparent absence of any very positive measures on a national or regional basis to deal with this problem, particularly bearing in mind that, in the Eastern Counties at any rate, there is a fear that legislation may be introduced soon to prevent farmers from taking water from streams and rivers during the summer for irrigation purposes? Will my hon. Friend also pay attention to the fact that by storing water underground we shall save considerable areas of agricultural land which would otherwise have to be used for storage by reservoirs? Will he do his best to spread research in this connection?

This is a most important, but also very difficult, technical question with legal, financial and administrative implications. I think we should await the result of the research, which is more widespread than I have had time to mention, and the comments of the expert committee.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will consult with the President of the Board of Trade with a view to taking powers to control the spread of commercial development in the Greater London area.

The spread of commercial development is already controlled under planning powers. I am always prepared to consider proposals improving their effectiveness.

As office approvals have averaged 4½ million square feet per year in central London over the last ten years and current office building approvals amount to 5 million square feet, with the consequent pressure on the already acute transport and housing situation, is it not time the two Ministries got together to help the planning authorities with their peculiarly difficult problem of moving office accommodation to outer areas by some system of commercial development certificates or in some other way?

This is an extremely important problem. If the hon. Lady looks into it, she will find that the number of planning permissions given in recent years since my right hon. Friend the present Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations asked the London County Council to tighten up is considerably lower than the figure which she has mentioned. The difficulty about applying any kind of development certificate is that, whereas an industrial development certificate is given to a particular firm, with offices it is not usually known what firms will occupy them until they have been built.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the present powers, whatever they are, are clearly not sufficient to prevent London being turned into a magnet in a way that makes its housing and transport problems increasingly difficult to solve? Ought he not to find some answer to the problem?

It is a very difficult question. I quite agree that we have not got the complete answer yet. As I have said, I am always prepared to consider fresh proposals, but, meanwhile, the planning authority and I are co-operating to try to prevent unnecessary permissions being given for office building.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is satisfied that sufficient weight is given to the particular character of a town, to local opinion, and to the views of the local planning committee when he approves, on appeal, plans for skyscraper flats and offices; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir, these matters are always given full weight when any scheme for high buildings is decided by my right hon. Friend. He also takes into consideration the fact that high-density building in appropriate places will help us to meet the need for development with the least sacrifice of open land.

Does the Minister realise the acute public concern that there is over recent cases, particularly at Henley-on-Thames, where the Minister himself has approved a 15-storey block against his inspector's recommendation of not more than seven storeys? As these decisions can change the whole face of Britain, could not the Minister arrange for some independent expert panel to look at these cases before a final decision is made?

The points mentioned by the hon. Lady were all taken into account by my right hon. Friend. The fact is that these matters arouse strong feeling, but so also does the general desire to keep the green belt and agricultural land. We have to accept a higher density in appropriate places. My right hon. Friend takes all these matters into account. Somebody has to take the decision in these cases, and it does not seem to us to be preferable that it should be taken elsewhere.

Will my hon. friend ensure that the greatest care is taken that these high buildings go only in appropriate areas and not elsewhere?

The very greatest care is taken not to harm the environment in such places.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he will make a statement on the measures he proposes to take at national level to deal with the serious position caused by floods.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what assistance Her Majesty's Government propose to give to local authorities and to individuals who have been seriously affected by the recent disastrous floods; and what action it is proposed to take to prevent a recurrence.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the magnitude of the distress caused by recent floods and the need for quick and adequate assistance for those who have suffered, what provision is to be made from Government sources; whether he is aware of the widespread desire that the prevention of flooding and assistance to those who suffer from floods should be on a national basis; what official consideration has been given to the matter; and what is to be the future policy of Her Majesty's Government on such matters.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he will take steps to organise a national fund, comprising both a contribution by the State and voluntary gifts, from which help may be given to those who suffer loss or injury from floods and other similar disasters.

I made a general statement to the House on 2nd November to which at present I have nothing to add.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is considerable feeling about this matter throughout the country in view of the expensive nature of the damage that has been done, and that people are not at all satisfied with the Bill that he has introduced; and is he prepared to do anything on a national scale instead of advising only local authorities and private individuals to compensate or do something for the people who, through his own negligence in not introducing legislation earlier, have suffered this serious damage?

The Land Drainage Bill is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. In the statement which I made a week ago I made it clear that the Exchequer and the Government would stand behind both the local authorities and the local appeal funds if the financial needs exceeded that which could be regarded as reasonable.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that this "standing behind the local authorities" is not very noticeable at the present moment? Does he realise that only yesterday I had a letter from the river board responsible for one river which caused damage, in which the board stated that the river had five breaches in it and when the board applied for help to repair the breaches it was turned down flat? Does my right hon. Friend further realise that the repair expenses will be borne by the very people who have sustained damage? Does he think that this is in the spirit of what he said the other day, about which we were all so pleased?

I am extremely anxious to maintain in both the spirit and the letter what I said the other day, but Questions about work by river boards in this matter should be put to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

Would the right hon. Gentleman be interested to know that last weekend I was among many victims of the floods in Kent and they think that his statement is deplorable in regard to his "standing behind" but a long way back? He says that people like to give money, but does he really think that people will give money if they know that ultimately the Government will provide it? Has he himself not created a situation in which people who want help quickly will have to wait a long time for it, if they get it at all? Why is he not a little more forward in helping people when they badly need assistance? They need assistance now.

The answer is that everybody's immediate needs are being met and nobody is being called upon to wait. What the hon. Gentleman says about people being unwilling to subscribe if they think the Government are going to provide all the money is, of course, a powerful argument against forming a national disasters fund.

Would the objection which the right hon. Gentleman has raised apply if, for instance, the Government proposed to contribute on a pound for pound basis? I do not think it would. The right hon. Gentleman said that he had nothing to add at present to his statement. Will he give an assurance that he is considering the suggestions made in these Questions, that he has not closed his mind on them, and that he will make a further statement quite soon?

I will certainly give an assurance that the matter is under consideration by the Government as a whole and that a statement will be made in due course.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there is some little confusion on the part of local authorities about the procedure that they should adopt in order to ensure that they get from the Government the financial assistance which my right hon. Friend promised? Will he consider whether a circular could be sent as early as possible to local authorities so that they may know what lines they should follow to get help?

Perhaps I may say something even more speedy than a circular. If a local authority is doubtful whether it has statutory powers to carry out some work which it thinks is needed, it should communicate with my Department immediately—a telephone will suffice—and the matter can be pursued. As to who will eventually foot the bill, one cannot really tell that for certain until one sees what the bill will amount to, but, as I have said previously, if any local authority is forced to incur expenditure which would put an unreasonable burden on the local rates, the Exchequer is prepared to help.

In his statement last week the Minister said that he thought that the Land Drainage Bill would solve the long-term problem. Is it not the case that the new Bill will not make a great deal of additional money available towards the solution of the long-term problem? Will not he now consider instituting an investigation with the River Boards Association and other bodies concerned so that a long-term solution may be found?

I am not aware of ever having said that the Land Drainage Bill would necessarily solve the whole problem. The extent to which it will solve the problem is a question which should be debated on Second Reading.

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he has made any estimate of the toal cost involved in current plans for the comprehensive redevelopment of central areas in cities and towns; and whether he will consider setting up some official agency which could assist by loans the financing of these long-term projects.

My right hon. Friend has not made such an estimate. He is always ready to consider suggestions for facilitating comprehensive redevelopment, but it is Government policy that both private developers and local authorities should borrow in the market on their own account.

Has the Parliamentary Secretary and his right hon. Friend considered the Report produced as a result of the one-day school at the Civic Trust, which my right hon. Friend opened, which put forward the suggestion that, in order to bring some of these arrangements together, something like a land finance corporation is very desirable? In view of the importance to some of us of avoiding haphazard arrangements in this matter, cannot fresh consideration be given to the conclusions reached by that course?

Yes. My right hon. Friend is certainly considering the report of the one-day conference to which my hon. Friend refers, but, inasmuch as the conference appeared to want some special lower rate of interest for central area redevelopment, it would go against Government policy about providing hidden subsidies. My right hon. Friend is considering the suggestion of the conference that there might be a deferment of interest charges for a period at the beginning of some developments.

Does my hon. Friend realise that, in the case of the redevelopment of the centres of many towns, there is often a conflict between the short-term and the long-term policy? It is important that local authorities should be enabled to adopt a long-term policy. They should receive some kind of financial assistance in order to do so.

It does not seem to my right hon. Friend that financial assistance should be necessary in what are, by hypothesis, the most valuable areas of cities. My right hon. Friend is considering the possibility that the machinery for deferring interest charges may need extension.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, to what extent, in his consultations with local authority associations about the treatment of hardship cases arising from the making up of private streets, he has discussed the question of Government financial assistance.

Not at all.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary kindly consider it now? Now that the Minister has admitted the existence of hardship and said to local authority associations that the hardship should be alleviated by a public authority, why should the whole burden be put on the rates? Is not this now recognised to be a national problem? Will he not, therefore, consider sharing the financial responsibility with local authorities?

No. This is very much a local problem and the few cases of hardship can certainly be alleviated by local authorities, always bearing in mind that poorer local authorities receive help already from the Exchequer.

Will the hon. Gentleman consider publishing the Report of the survey, which his Department has received, so that others interested in the problem may be able to judge the extent to which it is purely a local problem?

I should like notice of that question. I will take that into consideration.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will make a statement on the consultations between his Department and local authorities in the west Midlands about the development of new towns and estates to take Birmingham overspill; and, in particular, to what extent the site of the former Royal Ordnance factory at Swynnerton has been considered.

In the light of these consultations, I am pursuing inquiries to see what possible sites there may be for a new town, particularly in the neighbourhood of Dawley in Shropshire, as well as possible sites for schemes of town expansion, but I am not yet in a position to make any further statement.

Is the Minister aware of the widespread rumours in Staffordshire about the use of Swynnerton, which seem to have the effect of sterilising the site at present? Many of us want to see it developed for the purposes of industry and employment for workers in north Staffordshire. Can he say whether Swynnerton is under consideration at the moment in this respect, or can he deny the rumours and allegations being made?

I cannot be held responsible for rumours in Staffordshire. It is much better to investigate first the areas of less good agricultural land.

Is Swynnerton being considered?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether the recent speech by Dame Evelyn Sharp to the Annual Conference of the Association of Municipal Corporations, to the effect that local amalgamations and bigger authorities were necessary to tackle the wider range of functions in the future was made with his authority; and to what extent it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to bring about such changes in local authority powers and boundaries in the special review areas of the North-West.

With respect to my hon. Friend, my Permanent Secretary did not say this. She said that in considering the right structure for local government one must bear in mind the job that needs to be done, and the changing nature and range of local government responsibilities in the modern world. This is something which I have repeatedly said myself, but not so well. The Government's policy, which applies to the special review areas of the North-West as it does elsewhere, is to secure effective and convenient local government, and to await the reviews and recommendations by the Local Government Commissions for England and Wales before deciding what changes in organisation, if any, may be needed for this purpose.

I am obliged to my right hon. Friend. Notwithstanding what he has said, he will surely agree that it is undesirable that at this time his senior permanent adviser should give the impression, at any rate, that size will be the main, if not the only, criterion. Further, is not my right hon. Friend aware that, in seeming to condone this approach, he is subscribing not only to the view that the gentlemen in Whitehall know best, but perhaps that the ladies in Whitehall know best, which is surely the last straw?

I do not think that Dame Evelyn ever said what my hon. Friend thinks that she said. What she said was reported verbatim in the November issue of the Municipal Review and can there be read by any hon. Member. She discussed with me beforehand what she was going to say. Everything she proposed to say was completely in line with declared Government policy. The only thing she did not tell me she was going to reveal was that her earliest recollection was going round shouting for a candidate at a local election at the age of 4.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the average time taken to determine an appeal against a planning decision or compulsory purchase order, such time being computed from date of the receipt of the appeal or order at his Department; and, in view of the increasing number of such appeals, what proposals he has for their expedition.

The average time in the case of both planning appeals and compulsory purchase orders is about six months. I regard this as too long, and I am doing my utmost to reduce it, in particular by recruiting more inspectors to hold inquiries. But my task is the harder in that the number of planning appeals this year is running 25 per cent. above 1959.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is aware of the state of uncertainty about the operation of Section 76 of the Local Government Act, 1933, which is causing concern to many engaged in local government; whether he intends to propose any amendment of the law; and whether he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has not yet completed his consultations with the local authority associations about the operation of this Section, but he will make a statement as soon as he can.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs when he expects to announce his proposals for Parliamentary control of unopposed Special Procedure Orders.

I hope that a statement on this subject can be made within the next three months or so.

Could not the Minister reduce that period of three months? Is he aware that we have already been waiting eighteen months for this statement?

I am anxious to make the statement as soon as I can.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware of the growing concern of many local authorities at the scarcity and price of land; and what new steps he is contemplating to deal with this problem.

A circular, No. 37/60, was sent to all local authorities on 25th August advising them of the practical action they can take. I am sending the hon. Member a copy.

Is not the Minister aware that after that date the executive committee of the Association of Municipal Corporations wanted to discuss this particular question with him? Has he no conscience about the "twilight" inner-ring areas that are being neglected whereas other development on a commercial basis is taking place in a piecemeal manner to the neglect of the best interests of the community?

I think that the hon. Gentleman is criticising the planning authorities, but this is also a subject mentioned in the Amendment to the Motion that we are to debate today, so all these matters can be ventilated.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the acreage of derelict land within the boundaries of urban districts, municipal and county boroughs in England and Wales; how this acreage compares with the situation in 1938; and how much of this waste land was reclaimed for building or amenities in 1957, 1958, and 1959.

Up-to-date figures are not available, but information obtained during 1954 and 1955 showed that there were then about 69,000 acres of derelict land in the areas mentioned. My right hon. Friend has no figures for 1938—nor for the total amount of land reclaimed during the last three years. Local planning authorities have, however, been asked to carry out surveys of derelict land in their areas and to show the results, including their proposals for reclamation, in the reviews of their development plans.

May I send the Parliamentary Secretary a note of the meeting in September of the forestry section of the British Association, which shows that a county council has the information that should be known by the Government, and which should be the basis of Government action?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what progress has now been made in the relief of flooded areas; and to what extent Government assistance has so far been necessary.

The floods have been widespread and in some areas repeated; and progress with the work of rehabilitation is necessary at various stages. Assistance by Government agencies, civil and military, has been given from the outset. The extent to which special financial assistance may eventually prove necessary cannot yet be determined; none has been required so far, in getting on with the immediate tasks.

Since that Answer is clearly and necessarily inconclusive, can we take it that the Minister has not closed his mind to the possibility that it may be necessary to treat this on a national basis? Does he recall that, after the East Coast floods of 1953, the then Prime Minister said that this catastrophe would have to be

"… treated upon a national basis and, broadly, as a national responsibility …"—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 2nd February, 1953; Vol. 510, c. 1481.]

The Government certainly never ran away from that pledge but, as I said in reply to a previous Question, I have nothing at present to add to my previous statement. My present concern is to make sure that anyone who has suffered or who is suffering from the floods receives immediate assistance, if required, and that duty the Government are fulfilling.

Having repeated the words "at present" once again today, will the Minister now clearly confirm that there is still a possibility of Government financial action being taken?

Extremely effective Government action has already been taken, and everybody throughout the country where floods have occurred knows that the Government are ready to help with money.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what applications he has had from local authorities in the west country for financial help, arising out of the recent serious floods.

Before my statement in the House on Wednesday last, two local authorities in the west country had informed me that they thought they would need help, although it is not yet possible to assess the amount that may be needed.

Is the Minister aware that several times today he has said that the Government have made arrangements for the immediate needs of the thousands of flood victims to be dealt with? Is he not also aware that there are literally thousands of people with few financial resources who are wondering about the long-term effects, and many of them have suffered severely? Will not he make some speedy statement about a national fund or a gift, even if, as with farm subsidies, there is no upper limit to the amount which can be given in a financial year?

The Question that I was asked related to local authorities, and my Department is already in touch with some local authorities about the financial position as it affects them. The hon. Member is now asking about individuals and, as I said, I have nothing at present to add to the statements I made, which in my view should have reassured everybody that the Government were prepared to stand behind local funds which proved insufficient for their purpose.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that help will be forthcoming to local authorities and local river boards, if necessary, to repair damage which has been done to upper water courses in order to prevent further serious flooding if more rain comes?

Questions about the river boards should be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. So far as the local authorities are concerned, I can certainly say that we will take their excess expenditure into account.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he has received the report of his representative who presided over the Durham Town Plan inquiry at Easington; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has not yet received his inspector's report, and he cannot make a statement at present.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the President of the Board of Trade has now designated part of the area, in particular, Haswell and district, as a development area? Does this mean that industry may be encouraged to go there, and will he now say that the Easington Rural District Council should be permitted to build there?

This is a very difficult problem, and I think that time must be given for my right hon. Friend to consider the results of the inquiry, with the objections made and the implications to which the right hon. Gentleman refers.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what communication he has sent to Whickham Urban District Council, County Durham, regarding their failure to appoint a surveyor; and what reply he has received.

My right hon. Friend's only communication to Whickham Urban District Council on this matter has been the letter of 10th July, a copy of which was sent to the hon. Member on the same day. This letter did not require a reply, and none has been received, but I note that the council has now advertised the vacancy.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that up to 20th September no such information was ever revealed to the council? Is he also aware that when the clerk of the council was challenged with withholding such important advice, he advanced the lamentable excuse that it arose through submission to the Boundary Commission? Will he make it clear to the council that this was not the case, and will he further consider what action he can take to impress upon the elected members of the council the need for it not to act as a one-man-band council, conducted by the clerk?

In my letter to the hon. Gentleman I said that the answer to the sort of complaints being made rested primarily in the electors' hands, but I very much hope that the vacancy advertised by the council will soon be filled.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs why the Report of the Royal Commission on Local Government in Greater London was made available to the Press before it was made available to local authorities.

The Report of a Royal Commission is published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office on behalf of the Royal Commission and not of any Minister of the Crown. I understand that, in accordance with the normal practice for a document of this kind, the Report in question was published at the same time that it was made available in Parliament.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that apparently the Press did get this Report some hours before the local authorities? Will he take some steps to use what influence he can to see that local authorities in future have such reports at the same time as the Press? It seems to be a matter of commonsense and courtesy. Is the right hon. Gentleman further aware that it is rather embarrassing for a local authority to be rung up by someone on a local paper and to be asked, "What do you think about being abolished?" when the local authority has not even had the Report?

This is the responsibility of the Royal Commission, and not mine, but I can assure the House that the rules were observed about the Report being made available first to Members of Parliament. It really would have been improper, in my submission, for copies to have been sent to local authorities before they were available to hon. Members in the Vote Office.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many houses in the Church Street redevelopment area of Twickenham are in the statutory list of buildings of special architectural or historic interest, and how many in the supplementary list if he is satisfied that the existing machinery enables him to safeguard the character of this area as a whole; and what point has now been reached in the discussion of this redevelopment between his Department, the local authority, and the Royal Fine Art Commission.

At present two houses appear in the statutory list and ten in the supplementary list, but my right hon. Friend has recently given notice of his intention to transfer three houses from the supplementary to the statutory list and to add two unlisted buildings to that list. Responsibility for safeguarding the character of the area rests primarily on the local planning authority and my right hon. Friend is satisfied that the existing machinery is adequate. He has not been concerned in the discussions between the local authority and the Royal Fine Art Commission.

Does what the Minister has just said mean that the local authority can no longer acquire houses and then pull them down on the pretext that they cannot be restored or modernised? Will he realise—I am sure he does—that this is the last really un-spoilt Thames-side village near London? Will he do his utmost to make sure that its character is preserved?

No listed building can be demolished without reference to my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is now in a position to make a statement, following the talks between his Department and the various interests concerned, regarding the control of large-scale afforestation of open moorland, especially in the National Parks.

Consultations with representatives of the timber growers are in progress and my right hon. Friend is not yet ready to make a statement.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary take into account that some form of effective control over afforestation, particularly private afforestation, is essential and that there are constant encroachments on the National Parks, particularly Dartmoor?

Yes, but my right hon. Friend hopes that this control can be achieved by voluntary means.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, since only 7,705 private landlords have obtained grants for installing baths, hot water and inside toilets in the last nine months, if he will now introduce amending legislation to permit applications for such improvements to be made by tenants and, where these are approved, to continue the present landlords' grant and contribution.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what steps are being taken to induce landlords to improve their property; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what proposals he has to encourage landlords to improve their property by taking advantage of the improvement grants.

The new measures contained in the House Purchase and Housing Act, 1959, to encourage the improvement of older houses have already produced a marked response from both landlords and owner-occupiers. Between January and September, 1960, private landlords obtained improvement grants for nearly 18,000 houses. With more and more publicity, including practical demonstrations and exhibitions and showing of the film we have made, I believe that improvement work by both landlords and owner-occupiers will continue to expand. I do not propose to amend the law in the way suggested.

Since landlords are compelled under the Public Health Acts to keep their houses in a fit condition, should not these amenities at present lacking in nearly 5 million homes be similarly considered to be minimum conditions, particularly as the landlords are being paid to introduce these amenities?

I know the hon. Member's views, but all these matters were discussed while the House Purchase and Housing Bill was going through, and I am quite sure that we should rest on that Measure because we are getting better and better response to the offers from all concerned.

I am afraid that the Minister's optimism as far as landlords are concerned does not apply to Northumberland. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the County of Northumberland there are some 36,000 houses without a bath and 9,000 without water closets, and that the county council has applied the maximum degree of enterprise to induce landlords to do the reasonable thing without any result? Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that legislation is now long overdue for the purpose of exercising more pressure upon these people?

I do not think that legislation of that kind would be right, but I will certainly look into the position in Northumberland. Meanwhile, I hope that the hon. Member will use his great influence there to encourage both landlords and owner-occupiers to apply.

Does the right hon. Gentleman know that the Stoke-on-Trent local authority had a demonstration scheme which had a great amount of publicity but that the response which it obtained from landlords was negligible? If the right hon. Gentleman likes to compare the figures, he will find that the response continues to be negligible. What hope has he that the further demonstration that he is planning in Stoke-on-Trent will have any better results than the last one had?

I agree with the hon. Member that the experience in Stoke-on-Trent has been disappointing, but I am hoping to come myself and open the new demonstration, and no doubt that will make a big difference.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware that the rents of many houses without a bath, hot water or inside toilet, which were approximately doubled under the Rent Act, have been doubled again and in some cases trebled, following a change of tenant; and if he will take steps to prevent the continuation of this practice.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware that, as a consequence of the decontrol of property, rents are now being charged which deter many families from moving into more suitable accommodation; and if he will introduce legislation to stabilise rents at their existing levels.

For the reasons I gave in the debate on 26th October, I am not prepared to reintroduce rent control.

Is the Minister aware that I can take him to a row of identical slum houses, each with a controlled rent of 14s. 11d., except for one, for which the family, owing to a change of tenancy, pays 48s. a week? Where is the £9 a week labourer and his family to go? This creeping decontrol is affecting several hundred thousand houses each year owing to death or removal of tenants.

If these are slum houses, the most desirable thing is that the local authority should take action and pull them down.

Is not the Minister by now aware that this creeping decontrol is having a most serious effect on the ability of many families in London and elsewhere to find any accommodation within their means? There are families wandering about, not merely deterred from getting other accommodation, but literally unable to afford it. Will not he reconsider his decision about creeping decontrol?

No. With respect to the hon. Member, he is exaggerating. All these things will be open to debate later in the day.

If some measure of decontrol is desirable, as most experts agree, is not the creeping decontrol as described by the hon. Member by far the most desirable form of decontrol, in that it inflicts little or no hardship on anyone?

The Government certainly have no intention of going back on it.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether, in amending the law relating to liability for repairs, he will also fix a multiple of the gross value as the maximum rent for dwellings in the London area.

No, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that many tenants are too scared to complain of the intimidation and extortion arising from the rent racket in London at present, because they know that the Minister is on the side of the landlords all the time and that they themselves cannot expect any justice from him? Is he quite incapable of suggesting what a reasonable rent should be, using the gross value as a factor, rather than letting this whole problem be settled by jungle warfare?

The Minister is not on the side of either the landlords or the tenants. He is on the side of the houses. These gross values were fixed in relation to 1939, and the fact is that some areas have become more popular and other areas have become less popular since 1939, so that there is no single multiplier that would be applicable everywhere.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what decisions he has reached on the four outstanding submissions of compulsory purchase orders arising from his Circular 45/60; which borough councils made the submissions; when they were made; and what is the reason for the delay in reaching a decision.

With permission, I will circulate particulars of the four cases in tabular form in the OFFICIAL REPORT. In one case I shall be giving my decision very shortly. In the other three cases objections have been submitted, and under the statutory procedure it would therefore not be proper for me to comment at this stage.

What the right hon. Gentleman is, in fact, saying is that not a single compulsory purchase order has been confirmed in the three months since the circular was issued. Does not that make nonsense of the claims he has made for the circular? How does he expect a threat to be effective if he is so obviously reluctant to carry out the threat?

I cannot accept a word of what the hon. Gentleman has said. I have to abide by the statutory procedure, which requires time to be left for objections to be lodged, and if objections are lodged then, in all probability a public inquiry has to be held. I cannot ignore the law, and Parliament would not wish me to do so.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what price is being asked by the Welwyn Garden City Development Corporation for the sale of Type 14, four-bedroomed houses.

The price provisionally fixed for the nine Type 14 houses which are under construction is £4,700.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the cost of these and other houses being offered for sale by the development corporation has risen by over 20 per cent in the last two years, during a time when building costs have risen by only 5 per cent.? Can he say whether this is part of the policy to control profit margins, part of the policy to stabilise the cost of living, or part of the policy to encourage home ownership?

No. It is part of my right hon. Friend's policy of giving autonomy to new town corporations.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what increase in the amount of unfurnished accommodation to let has occurred since the passing the Rent Act, 1957.

The Rent Act has certainly increased the amount of unfurnished accommodation to let coming on to the market, but I cannot say by how much.

Is the Minister aware that he has no evidence for the statement that he repeatedly makes on this matter?

The hon. Member says that I have no evidence. As a matter of fact, I had an examination made of the London evening papers for four weeks in 1956 just before the Rent Bill was published. During that period only 40 flats were advertised to let unfurnished. An examination of the London evening newspapers in the corresponding four weeks in 1960 disclosed not 40 but 760.

Will the Minister tell us at what rents this accommodation was available, and will he explain to his hon. Friends behind him that accommodation of that kind is of no use to the great majority of people who are afflicted by the Rent Act?

I can certainly tell the hon. Gentleman that a large number of the 760 were at quite reasonable rents.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs when the Report of the Technical Committee on Water Resources in Wales will be published.

I hope to receive the Report of the Welsh Water Advisory Committee in time for it to be published next spring.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what reply has been given to the request by leaders of the African parties in Kenya that Jomo Kenyatta should be released.

I have made it clear that the position of Jomo Kenyatta remains as indicated by the Governor in his statement of 10th May.

In view of the general consensus of opinion in Kenya that Mr. Jomo Kenyatta must be released at an early date, is it not desirable that this should be done as a gesture of racial good will while Europeans still control the Government, rather than to leave it till the Africans obtain a majority next year?

Of course, this is a difficult problem. In Kenya many people of all races feel very keenly indeed on both sides of this question. It is quite wrong to assume that there is anything like a unanimous point of view—

I did not say that.

—well, even an overwhelming majority point of view in favour of what the hon. Member puts forward. In this matter I am content to leave it in the hands of the Governor, whom many Members of this House know and in whom I have complete confidence. It is his affair and I am sure he takes into account the well-being of Kenya when he makes a decision.

It is our affair, too.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether it is the intention of the Uganda Government to hold elections on a national basis for a new Legislative Council early in 1961.

Yes, Sir.

While welcoming that brief reply from my right hon. Friend, may I ask him whether he is aware that there is a body of opinion in Uganda which feels, because of the small number of registrations in Buganda and the opposition of the Kabaka's Government, that the central Government will not have the courage to go ahead with the elections?

If there is that feeling I should have thought that my reply, which although certainly brief is at least clear, would dispel that illusion.

Has my right hon. Friend taken full account of the fact that the Commission which is to be set up to study how best to link the Government of the four kingdoms, whose integrity is secured by treaty with this country, with a central Government in territorial Uganda, may not have reported by that date, and would it not be better to see how we are going to discharge our treaty obligations to those kingdoms first before conferring fresh powers on an expanded all-Uganda Legislature?

I think this is an extraordinarily difficult problem of judgment. For myself, I have alway felt that if the Relationships Commission—I hope to announce its membership within a few days—were to report before the election, we would immediately have pressures for the Report to be implemented before the election and we would never get to the point of having Protectorate-wide elections. Although I recognise the difficulty of the situation, I believe the right policy is to have early next year Protectorate-wide elections, to have shortly after that the Report of the Relationships Commission, and then at one conference to take together the constitutional future of the Protectorate and the Report of the Relationships Commission. I believe that is the best answer.