asked the Minister of Power if he will state the cost of importing iron ore from abroad into the United Kingdom from January to September, 1960, compared with the same period in 1959; and from which countries these imports were secured.

asked the Minister of Power what plans the Iron and Steel Board has for the maintenance of reasonably adequate reserves of home iron ore for use by the South Wales steel industry.

The industry in South Wales would normally draw its main supplies of home ore from the Oxfordshire and South West Northamptonshire fields. It is impossible to forecast technical and economic developments into the distant future. But the Iron and Steel Board estimates, in the light of its

As the answer consists of a table of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he is aware that there is some suggestion of increased iron ore mining in the Stamford area of Lincolnshire? In view of the Government's declared policy to increase trading amongst the Outer Seven, does he not think that it would be more in keeping with that policy if we increased the importation of iron ore, thus helping those countries to buy from us? Would not this save the countryside and promote exports?

The hon. Member's Question asks for certain facts and he will have these facts in the Official Report. The other matters which he has raised relate to a totally different Question.

Will the Minister take steps to see that the iron and steel industry uses the maximum amount of imported ore in order to keep this as a reserve for a rainy day? Does not he agree that the importing of iron ore will regenerate world trade and also be a great help to British shipping? Will he bring these factors to the attention of the Iron and Steel Board?

These issues have been in front of the inquiry of which my hon. Friend will be aware, and the decision will be reached in the light of those and other matters.

I commend the suggestion that it might be advisable to import such ore and keep it for a rainy day, but do not the same facts and the same reasons apply in the case of coal and oil?

That is a rather different question.

asked the Minister of Power what factors decided him in a recent case to authorise capital expenditure by the Central Electricity Authority on a nuclear, rather than a conventional, power station; what consideration he gave to the availability of coal for the purpose; and if he will make a statement.

I would refer the hon. and learned Member to the White Paper "The Nuclear Power Programme" published in June, 1960.

Does that convey all that this Question implies? I have forgotten the principal provisions of the White Paper.

As the White Paper made clear, the demand for fuel for electricity generation is continually increasing. In the long run we shall therefore need increasing supplies of nuclear power. In about ten years' time it should be cheaper to generate base load in nuclear stations than in conventional stations, provided that we achieve the technological progress that we expect. To secure this we must continue to build nuclear stations on an adequate scale.

asked the Minister of Power what were the total imports of oil into the United Kingdom in the years 1957, 1958, and 1959, respectively; and what are his estimates of imports in the next five years.

Thirty-nine million tons, 45 million tons, and 52 million tons, respectively. I could not estimate imports for succeeding years but such indications as I have suggest that the rate of growth would be slowed down.

In view of the figures which the Minister has given, and the figures that he proposes in his estimates, how can the National Coal Board plan its resources for the next five years? Is it going to be based on an expanding industrial economy, or upon a stagnating or declining industrial economy such as we have today?

The National Coal Board has already made its plan until 1965, and my right hon. Friend has no reason to think that that plan will be very far out.

asked the Minister of Power if he will institute a public inquiry into the costing and pricing policy of the oil industry.

No. Sir.

Would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that if the inquiry for which I have asked were instituted the findings would either prove or disprove the charges that are being made, that fuel oil is being dumped in this country at an uneconomic price in an effort to capture to a greater extent the fuel market to the disadvantage of our indigenous fuel industry?

I am convinced, without an inquiry, that fuel prices are not being artificially forced down. First, I am convinced that the fuel oil business is remunerative, for the oil companies. Secondly, I am quite clear that prices in Britain are higher than on the Continent, which is open to the influx of Russian oil at cheap prices. Lastly, while motor spirit prices have fallen in the last ten years, fuel oil prices are in fact higher than they were in 1950.

asked the Minister of Power what is the percentage increase in the consumption of coal and oil, respectively, during the current year.

In the first ten months of 1960, inland consumption of coal has increased by 6 million tons, or 4 per cent. over consumption last year. Oil consumption has increased by 8 million tons of coal equivalent, or 17 per cent. over 1959.

In view of these alarming figures, can the Minister say what plans he has for restricting oil and helping the coal industry? Is he aware that the German Government have already taken action by imposing a tax on fuel oil?

I do not see any case for restricting oil at a time when the demand for coal next year is likely to be considerably higher than production.

asked the Minister of Power what was the cost in foreign exchange of importing petrol and fuel oil, respectively, into the United Kingdom during 1959.

It is not possible to isolate these figures, but there were also substantial exports of petrol and fuel oil and the net foreign exchange cost is probably small.

Because of the American currency difficulties, have the American Government, or any American firms, made approaches to the Government to alter the basis of the arrangement made at Suez in respect of foreign oil?

That question should be addressed to another Department.

Which one?

asked the Minister of Power what steps he is taking to investigate further the possibilities of the total gasification of coal, in the light of the apparent conflict of views between the Wilson Committee and the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for Wigan (Mr. Fitch) on 28th November.

Is not the Minister aware that many people think that the Wilson Committee Report shows an insufficient sense of the importance and urgency of this subject? Is there not a need for a much more co-ordinated policy?

There is no conflict between the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy and the Wilson Committee. Both recommend that work on gasification should be pursued, and negotiations to have that work pursued are in progress now.

asked the Minister of Power whether he will state the estimate he has made of 1961 production and demand for coal; what diminution of unsold stocks is anticipated in that year; what is the current value of these stocks and the tonnage of undistributed coal and coke held by the National Coal Board; and whether he will make a statement.

In 1961 the level of production may fall slightly. With demand at much the same level as in 1960, the Board expects to reduce its stocks by slightly more than this year. On 19th November the Board held 31·8 million tons of coal and 5·2 million tons of coke, valued at about £125 million.

Would my right hon. Friend say, in regard to his assessment of the consumption of coal during 1961, what level of employment or underemployment in industry generally he has presupposed? For example, has he based his figures on a continuance of pretty widespread short-term working in such industries as the motor industry?

I have been extremely cautious in my estimate, as my hon. Friend realises. I said that demand will be about the same as this year. I do not think that it will increase very much and I do not think that it will be reduced very much. I should not like to go further than that.

asked the Minister of Power how much stocked coal has been sold since 1st September, 1960.

During the eleven weeks ended 19th November, undistributed stocks fell by 2·9 million tons.

In view of the improvement in the lifting of stocks, can the Parliamentary Secretary be quite sure that there has been no closure of pits with good reserves simply because they are uneconomic temporarily?

The decision as to which mines are to be closed in any given year is always taken in the previous year. It is highly unlikely, therefore, that the fact that we lifted a certain amount from stock during these months will have had any effect on such decisions.

asked the Minister of Power, having regard to the loss forward of £64 million on Coal Board accounts at 30th June, 1960, what is the rate of loss since suffered; and whether these growing deficits are to be financed by new borrowing or otherwise.

The Board's third quarter results are usually adverse and those of the fourth favourable. I expect the fourth quarter of this year also to reflect the improvement which should follow the recent price increases. The figures will not be available for publication until after the end of the Board's accounting year. The Board's accumulated deficit is meanwhile covered by internal resources and arisings.

Why cannot we have quarterly financial accounts from the National Coal Board? Is not my right hon. Friend aware that a very much larger international trading company, Shell Royal Dutch, for example, publishes quarterly accounts, including profit and loss accounts? Would not that be a good example for a nationalised industry to follow? Why does my right hon. Friend persist in protecting the Coal Board in these matters?

I do not think that I protect the Coal Board. I think my hon. Friend realises that the number of concerns which produce these quarterly figures is very few.

No.

It is so. The Act requires the Board to provide accounts and a statement once a year. The rest is up to the Board. It is for the Board to decide.

asked the Minister of Power what consultative machinery exists between his Department and the National Coal Board in respect of the closure of a pit or pits.

Colliery closures are entirely a matter for the National Coal Board. The Board keeps me informed about the total size of its programme and, as soon as it decides which individual pits are to be closed, the information is passed on to the Board of Trade and Ministry of Labour.

In view of the social consequences of the closure of pits, or even of one single pit, why should not the Minister be consulted so that he can take account of these consequences and advise the Board whether it is desirable to proceed with closure? Why should not hon. Members in this assembly be informed of what is going on even in their own constituencies?

I think that the right hon. Gentleman, with his experience, will be well aware of the reasons why full information cannot be given in too great detail in advance. But to put his fears at rest, I am of course in constant communication with the Board. I discussed this matter well ahead, but the important point is that this is a decision of the Board. I am informed in good time so that arrangements can be made for alternative employment.

This is very important indeed. Suppose in a particular area, say in my constituency, the Board contemplates closing a pit or pits. What am I to do to protect my constituents? If I go to the Minister he says "I have, got nothing to do with it, go to the Board". If I go to the Board, it tells me to mind my own business. What is one to do?

One important case in point is the pit at West Wylam. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the Board of Trade has scheduled the area as a development area to take account of the possible unemployment that will arise from that closure.

asked the Minister of Power if he has any plans to arrest the drift of young men and mechanically skilled labour from the coal mines.

asked the Minister of power to what extent he estimates that the continued decline in manpower in the coal industry will result in a shortage of domestic coal this winter.

The manning of the coal industry is a matter for the National Coal Board, which is already making vigorous efforts to improve recruitment and reduce wastage. The Board considers that manpower difficulties are not likely to cause shortages of house coal this winter.

As the fear of insecurity in the coalfields arises from Government policy in relation to fuel matters, does the Minister think that he can sit back complacently when young men under 31 are leaving at the rate of 32,000 a year? Does the Minister expect the pits to be run with old men by 1965?

The reduction in numbers in the coal mines is partly the result of the Board's restriction on recruiting to meet the reduced demand for coal. Divisions generally were given authority to resume recruiting in June of this year. All divisions requiring men are now conducting vigorous local recruitment campaigns, and the National Coal Board has some reason to be satisfied with the results.

The Minister said that he would reply to Questions No. 11 and 12 together, but I ask him to look at No. 12 again and answer it, because what he said is not an answer to my Question. Is he aware that the decline in manpower in the industry is due to the failure of the Government to provide an adequate fuel policy? If there is any grave shortage of coal in winter, the responsibility will be his and that of the Government. Is he further aware that the reason why many miners are leaving the industry is their fear for the future of the industry? Will he make it quite clear to all and sundry that there is still a great future for the industry, that we shall always need large quantities of coal, and that the industry itself will always be the mainstay of the economy of this country?

The hon. Gentleman's Question requested information regarding the effect of the declining manpower on the supply of domestic coal this winter. While it is impossible to quantify the effect of the industry's current manpower difficulties on house coal supplies, the Board does not think it will cause a shortage this winter. With regard to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I agree that the confidence of young men in the future of the industry is not helped by pessimistic forecasts about output. The Government's view is that the lower 1965 figure in the Revised Plan for Coal, which envisages 200 million tons of mining capacity at that time, will not be far out.

Has the Minister given serious consideration to the growing experience in the coalfields, that in particular skilled men, who are becoming ever more essential in this mechanised period of mining, find it much more attractive to go to other industries, where the relative scale of earnings of maintenance men, skilled fitters and the rest, is adverse to the National Coal Board? In these circumstances, will he give serious consideration to that aspect?

I would not seek to minimise, nor would the Board, the gravity of the problem which the right hon. Gentleman has raised, but the matter of wages is one for negotiation between the National Coal Board and the unions concerned.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible.

asked the Minister of Power what consultations took place between his Department and the National Coal Board regarding the Revised Plan for Coal, based upon estimates of 300 million tons of coal equivalent in 1965; and whether any amendment of the total energy needs is now contemplated.

In preparing the Revised Plan, the Board consulted my Department about the estimates of total energy requirements. There are no changes in these estimates which would justify the Board in aiming at a mining capacity in 1965 lower than 200 million tons.

Is the Minister aware that every care must be taken to safeguard against the depletion in manpower in this industry if we are to reach the target stated by the Minister? If we are to keep the men in the industry, does the Minister not agree that every consideration ought to be given to the question of shorter hours?

As my hon. Friend explained, that is a matter which is up to the Board and the unions to negotiate themselves.

asked the Minister of Power if he will fix a target of production for the coal industry of 200 million tons per annum by 1965, in order to meet national requirements and to give confidence to the industry, thus improving prospects for labour retention and recruitment.

asked the Minister of Power whether he is satisfied that the Revised Plan for Coal can still be fulfilled; and what variations he expects.

I do not fix targets, but I think the National Coal Board is right in continuing to aim at a mining capacity of not less than 200 million tons in 1965, as stated in the Revised Plan.

I thank the Minister for that reply. I should like to know what steps he would take to protect this figure from the kind of competition to which he referred in a previous Answer.

As I suggested just now, I do not think that this figure needs protection at a time when the demand for coal is higher than the production of coal.

Is the Minister aware that Professor Robinson and the chairman of the Institution of Gas Engineers both take the view that on present trends the figure required by 1965 will not be more than 280 million tons of coal equivalent? This is also the view of the National Union of Mineworkers. There is a serious discrepancy between the Minister's estimates and those of others who are expert in this matter. Could not the Minister go more thoroughly into this question in order to see who is right? Most of the Government's forecasts have been wrong in the past, and there is nothing to suggest that they are right now.

I do not think that there is a serious discrepancy here. I have suggested that the figure will be 300 million tons coal equivalent in the later 1960s, and they suggest that it will be 280 million tons in 1965, which I think is too pessimistic. It would be optimistic to rely on it, but if we had, up to 1965, anything like the advance in energy requirements that we have had this year, we should need not 300 million but 340 million tons coal equivalent in 1965. I admit that that is optimistic, but it puts the matter into perspective, and shows that the estimate of 280 million tons is unduly pessimistic.

asked the Minister of Aviation Whether he will make a further statement regarding the progress he is making towards a British research programme into outer space.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he is now in a position to make a further statement on the Government's plans for space research.

asked the Minister of Aviation Whether Blue Streak will be made available, on suitable terms and conditions, to the European Space Research Organisation as a satellite launcher.

At present I am unable to add to the Answer I gave to the hon. Members for Bosworth (Mr. Wyatt) and Stockton-on-Tees (Mr. Chetwynd) on 7th November.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what significance there is in the conference which Sir Harrie Massey has recently been attending?

That conference was concerned with the analogous subject of space research. At that conference there was agreement amongst all the European nations participating to go forward with research into space. What we are concerned with here is the launcher.

Does the Minister know that the Bell Telephone Company of America has prepared a scheme for a system of communication satellites which will cost about £70 million and will produce a profit of about £1,000 million a year, and that we are to have no share in this unless the Government do something quickly? Is not it carrying Governmental complacency too far to do nothing whatever about this subject of space research when everybody else will cash in on it?

On the question of space research, as such, I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the Answer I have given. As for the launcher, there is some advantage in having conversations with our friends on the decision to go forward.

The Minister has referred to his previous Answer, but in that Answer he never said anything about the possibility of allowing Blue Streak to be used by the European Space Research Organisation. I would ask him to make it available. Is there any reason, in principle, why Blue Streak—which appears to be the only launcher for satellites that we have at present—should not be made available, under proper terms and conditions, to any European effort organised on these lines?

If the decision were made to go ahead with Blue Streak as a satellite launcher it would be available to the European Space Research Organisation.

Can my right hon. Friend comment on the statement of the hon. Member for Bosworth (Mr. Wyatt) that there is a profit of £1,000 million a year to be made on this project?

I shall refrain from commenting on such matters.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he is aware of the delay and the suspension of service that arises through Manchester Airport having only one major runway; and when it is proposed to construct an alternative runway so that aircraft of all sizes may land without interference from crosswinds.

No, Sir. This is a matter in the first place for the Manchester Corporation, which owns and operates the airport. My right hon. Friend has received no proposals from it about a new alternative runway.

Does my hon. Friend not think that this is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs? We have here a major airport which is not capable, under certain weather conditions, of receiving aircraft larger than the Pionair. Is it not time that something was done about it?

No, Sir. The utilisation factor at Manchester is very high.

asked the Minister of Aviation what proportion of the capital expenditure programmes up to 1961–62 of British Overseas Airways Corporation and British European Airways, respectively, will be met out of the internal resources of the corporations.

Over the twelve years from 1947 to the end of 1959–60, the proportion of capital expenditure met from internal resources has been about 42 per cent. in the case of B.O.A.C. and 39 per cent. in the case of B.E.A.

Does my hon. Friend agree that, whatever else is happening in other nationalised industries, we are trying to run these two Corporations as effective business corporations? [HON. MEMBERS: "Who are 'we'?"] The Government. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Therefore, is it not very desirable that in all future programmes they should be as self-financing as possible?

It is true that the Corporations have financed and will continue to finance a substantial proportion of their investment programmes out of their own internal resources.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT, from information available to him through the International Civil Aviation Organisation, a list of the landing fees charged by the major air ports in the world, including London Airport.

The charges, including landing fees, of the major airports are set out in the Manual of Airport and Air Navigation Facility Tariffs published by the International Civil Aviation Organisation. It is obtainable from the Stationery Office, and I have arranged for a copy to be placed in the Library of the House.

In that case, can my hon. Friend tell me whether London Airport is ranked among the highest-cost airports in the world? If so, will he conduct an inquiry into the reasons why it is such a high-cost airport?

I cannot do anything about these things. As I believe my hon. Friend will understand when he sees the manual, these charges are very complex. It is not possible to make direct comparisons. Some airports charge on the service; some on weight; some have surcharges and some have differentials; some have varying charges for hangars, and some have levies on petrol and so on.

asked the Minister of Aviation with which Commonwealth or European interests he is seeking co-operation for the development of a supersonic airliner.

My Ministry is in close touch with the Federal Aviation Agency in the United States, and I have also discussed this question in Paris. I do not rule out co-operation with other countries but, for practical reasons, this would no doubt have to be limited to countries which are able to make a substantial technical and financial contribution.

Does the Minister rule out the possibility of some co-operation with France? On the general question, does he agree that the prospect of such development, either by ourselves or in co-operation with others, increases the possibility of the British aircraft industry once again leading the world in aircraft design and development?

I certainly do not rule out the possibility of co-operation with France. Indeed, I have had talks in Paris, as did my predecessor, about the development of a supersonic transport aircraft. I agree that it is a great hope for the future, but it is something that needs planning very carefully before we embark upon it.

asked the Minister of Aviation what is the cost of the latest type of Victor Bomber.

About £1 million.

Has the Minister taken steps to reduce this gigantic cost? How many of these £1 million aircraft is he ordering? Has he heard the rumour that this company may be taken over by an American company? What is his attitude to that?

The aircraft—they are very fine aircraft—are being produced as economically as possible. I am not able to state numbers, as the hon. Gentleman well knows.

asked the Minister of Aviation what financial assistance has been given towards the development of aero-engines since 1950; and what has been received from royalties on the sale of aero-erigines.

During the period April, 1950, to March, 1960, payments by the Government to industry for research and development on aero-engines amounted to approximately £289 million. The great bulk of this expenditure was incurred in order to meet United Kingdom defence requirements. Payments to the Government in respect of sales of aero-engines to other customers during the same period amounted to approximately £17 million.

Can the Minister give more information about a breakdown as between the civil and military grant?

No, I am afraid I cannot break it down into military and civil payments.

asked the Minister of Aviation what request he has received from Rolls Royce Limited for further financial assistance in development contracts for aero-engines.

Various requests. A financial contribution is being offered, subject to contract terms, for the development of the RB.163 engine.

Has the attention of the Minister been drawn to the latest speech by Mr. Pearson, deputy chairman of Rolls Royce, asking for a 50–50 grant towards the development of civil engines in the future?

My attention was drawn to the Rolls Royce request for State aid, a request which it is by no means alone in making.

Can the Minister say what he is doing about it?

We are negotiating the possibility of a subscription to the RB.163 engine.

asked the Minister of Aviation what steps he is taking, pending the construction of the new passenger building, to improve the present facilities for handling passengers arriving at London Airport, North, particularly when two aircraft land at the same time.

The Central Terminal will be used to relieve congestion.

That is not a very informative answer. Is not the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the "high utilisation factor", to which he referred just now, is extremely high in these huts on London Airport, North? Is he aware that trans-Atlantic passengers have a tedious and disagreeable time when aeroplanes arrive simultaneously? Is not this a very bad introduction for visitors to this country, and will not he provide something which is a little more informative than the Answer he has given?

It is an informative Answer in the sense that it contains all the information. What happens is that when there are delayed or non-scheduled flights and certain charter flights, these are now diverted to the Central Terminal to relieve the congestion. We all know the problem and, as I informed my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Sir A. V. Harvey) last week, the first part of the long haul building will be completed in the late summer of 1961 and the remainder early in 1962.

asked the Minister of Aviation how many persons have been involved in accidents in connection with private commercial aviation services during the past two years; in how many instances passengers have been involved in serious inconvenience through failures in the service; and if he is now satisfied that official regulations of these services are being fully observed.

During the years 1958 and 1959, there were 65 accidents to aircraft on commercial flights of all kinds, excluding the Corporations. These accidents involved 99 fatalities, and 17 persons were seriously injured. I have no figures showing inconvenience to passengers. To reinforce the regulations applying to transport aviation services generally, an Order will be submitted shortly introducing Air Operators' Safety Certificates. Drafts of this Order are available in the Vote Office.

How does this compare with B.O.A.C. and B.E.A. and, in the case of grievances of passengers arising from failure of the service, has the right hon Gentleman any authority or jurisdiction?

We do our best to study the convenience of passengers, particularly from the point of view of the operation of airports. The comparable figures in the case of the Corporations are 17, 57 and 16.

Can the matter be referred to the Minister?

I have never known anyone find any difficulty in referring matters of inconvenience to a Minister.

asked the Minister of Aviation what recent representations have been made to him in respect of the alleged defectiveness of certain types of aviation spirit; what has been the result of his investigations in this matter; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Aviation to what extent paraffin is used as the motive power in British-owned aircraft.

I have received no representations about this matter. All British operators of turbine engined aircraft normally use paraffin, except in rare cases where this fuel is not available. My Department has throughout acted on the advice of the Air Registration Board.

Can the Minister give an assurance that this spirit is not used by foreign aircraft landing in this country?

I can only answer for aircraft registered here, and my Answer goes for them.

Does the Minister recognise the greater safety of paraffin over petrol as a fuel? While he appreciates that British companies for the most part do use paraffin, would not he try to encourage those operating companies who use British airfields to follow the example of B.O.A.C. and B.E.A.?

As I say, I am aware of the point raised by the hon. Member and the arguments on his side. We have acted throughout on the advice of the Air Registration Board, which I think is right in a matter of this kind.

asked the Minister of Aviation what he proposes to do with the Princess flying boats.

I propose to offer them for sale on the open market.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is suggested that a company has been formed to purchase these three aircraft provided that it can purchase the right to routes along with the aircraft? Is that the case, and, if so, will the right hon. Gentleman refuse to entertain such an offer, because the provision is the business of the Air Transport Licensing Board?

I should think there would be some difficulty with a composite contract of that character. I should like to study it before making a reply.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that these flying boats have been lying in Southampton Water for a considerable time and that proposals have been, I understand, put forward for operating them on a route? Can my right hon. Friend say whether these negotiations are still alive?

The Question refers only to the matter of their disposal and not to the routes, which is quite a separate matter. I have answered the Question on the Order Paper. If there is some matter regarding a particular route, I should like to see a Question on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Health (1) why he has refused to supply a motor vehicle to Mr. R. Hillier, 44 Sir Oswald Stoll Mansions, Fulham, S.W.6, who lost a leg and suffered other injuries in the last war; and

Motor vehicles or assistance towards conversion costs are provided only for those whose ability to walk is much more severely limited than that of Mr. Hillier or Mr. Mexson.

Does the hon. Lady realise that a man's ability to walk about a medical examination room is one thing, but that his ability to get about in crowded streets and to catch buses and trains is quite another? Does she realise that Mr. Hillier lost one leg and was seriously wounded in the other and that Mr. Mexson, his doctor says, has a leg weakness by which he finds long waits in overcrowded trains and buses too much for his endurance? Is she aware that Mr. Mexson recently had a narrow escape from falling off a platform on to a railway line? Will she look into these two cases again?

I realise that it is difficult for disabled people to use public transport, but both the hon. Member's constituents have been medically examined by my Department during the current year and their mobility is such that they do not qualify for invalid transport.

Does that not suggest that the standards set by the Ministry are unreasonable and that the whole question should be looked into again?

No, Sir. If I remember rightly, I think that more than 12,000 such vehicles are on issue.

asked the Minister of Health to how many staff, and for what period the award of £6,423,500, referred to on page 6 of the Supplementary Estimate for the National Health Service of 14th November, 1960, will be paid.

About 282,000, under thirty awards operative from various dates.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the 280,000 are, as I imagine, administrative and clerical staff of hospitals? If so, do these awards follow automatically on the Pilkington award?

There is quite an appreciable amount of administrative staff involved. The awards are not connected with the Pilkington recommendatons.

asked the Minister of Health if he will consider providing free of charge repairs and replacements for hearing aids purchased privately.

No, Sir.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that many old-age pensioners have purchased their own hearing aids? Most of them have done this out of a sense of loyalty, rather to help the Health Service than to hit it or to add to the expenditure, as we have seen in the National Health Service Report. Will the hon. Lady speak to her right hon. Friend to see whether it is possible to help these people, particularly old-age pensioners who have purchased sets, with replacements or repairs which are required?

The hon. Member will appreciate that it would be virtually impossible for us to stock all the components necessary to provide for replacements or to repair hearing aids purchased privately.

In view of that unsatisfactory reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Minister of Health, in view of the concern expressed about the deteriorating standards in many nursing homes for elderly people where charges range from 7 to 30 guineas a week, if he will set up a commitee to look into the matter; and if he will consider the need for legislation requiring these homes to register annually, and prescribing precise standards of furnishings and staffing.

A person carrying on any nursing home is required by law to be registered by the local authority and registration may be refused or cancelled. The premises are subject to inspection by the authority's officers. I am at present considering suggestions for strengthening the powers of the registration authorities.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask him to bear in mind that Dr. Fielding, medical officer of health, Bournemouth—where it is claimed there are more old people than in most towns—has complained bitterly about the deteriorating standards of nursing homes and asked for reforms which would necessitate legislation? Will the Minister look at that report from Dr. Fielding?

Yes, I will.

Am I right in saying that a person can keep two old people without having to register a place as a nursing home and that, in view of high rates and difficulty of housing these old people, there are opportunities for the most unpleasant sharks to exploit them? Will the Minister give attention to this question other than the question about nursing homes?

This is a Question about nursing homes and there is an obligation to register them.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he proposes to take to reduce the cost of drugs supplied within the National Health Service.

I shall continue by all practicable means to encourage, through the co-operation of the medical profession, economy in prescribing in the Hospital and General Medical Services. As regards drug prices, negotiations on renewal of the voluntary price regulation scheme are in progress.

Is the Minister aware that any steps he can take to bring down drug prices, provided (1) they do not result in any reduction of service to the patient and (2) that any savings made are not used for the benefit of private patients, will have the enthusiastic support of this side of the House?

Is my right hon. Friend taking any stops to see that new entrants to the medical profession are aware of the economics of the Health Service and aware of the fact that if they inflate the cost of drugs by unnecessarily prescribing the more expensive drugs they will defeat the whole aim of the Service?

Yes. That point was made by the Hinchliffe Committee, and I understand that in teaching establishments attention is given to it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some hospitals are buying their drugs on the Continent, drugs of exactly similar quality and content, but at a very much lower rate than they would have to pay for drugs imported from America or manufactured in this country?

So I read, but perhaps the hon. Member will put down a Question on that if he wants particulars about it.

asked the Minister of Health what action he proposes to take to curtail the expensive methods adopted by the sales departments of certain drug houses engaged in the provision of drugs for the National Health Service.

The industry has adopted a code of practice designed to eliminate improper forms of sales promotion. I shall continue to bring any breaches to their attention for action.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that 70 per cent. of the cost of some American drugs in this country can be related to advertising purposes? Is he aware that I have brought this matter to the attention of his five predecessors time after time and that the country is paying £70 million for drugs and that a great part of that amount can be related to undue advertising? Will he take some trouble to investigate the whole matter? There is no question about it and his hon. Friends agree with me about this. I cannot understand why the right hon. Gentleman and his predecessors should not have taken action.

I am anxious to find any means I can of reducing drug costs and drug prices, but the right hon. Lady exaggerates the rôle of advertising costs in the total bill.

Has the right hon. Gentleman considered abolishing the three-year moratorium on price control?

That is part of the voluntary price regulation scheme which is at present under review.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is satisfied with the present procedure for the diagnosis of pneumoconiosis; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. The facilities in the National Health Service for diagnosing pneumoconiosis are adequate and I am advised that the medical procedures are well understood.

Is the right hon. Gentleman certain that they find all those who have it, and with sufficient speed?

I have no reason to doubt that, but if the right hon. Gentleman has any information tending to the contrary effect, I shall be very glad to examine it.

The definition of pneumoconiosis on which present cases are decided was reached a quarter of a century ago, after an investigation by the Medical Research Council. Has not the time now arrived when, in view of our much wider experience, there should be another investigation by the Council?

I think that is a question for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have had a number of cases in my constituency in which patients have been diagnosed as not having pneumoconiosis but who, when they have died, have been shown by autopsy to have been suffering from it? If I send the right hon. Gentleman details, will he look at the problem?

Certainly.

The Minister said only that he thought that this was a matter for his right hon. Friend. Will he at least say that he will discuss the matter with that right hon. Gentleman to see what can be done done about it?

I am sure that my right hon. Friend's attention will be drawn to the terms of the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question.

rose—

Can I add to what my right hon. Friend has said?

I called the next Question before I saw the right hon. Lady was rising.

asked the Minister of Health what progress has been made in establishing the selective recruitment and training scheme for hospital administrators; what proposals he has for extending the scheme; and if he will make a statement.

The scheme provides at present for the recruitment of sixteen persons a year for three years theoretical and practical training. If there are enough suitable candidates, the figure will be increased to twenty-four for 1961. I shall shortly be discussing the experimental introduction of a regional scheme With representatives of hospital authorities.

Is the Minister aware that I am very glad to know that this scheme is being extended, although the extension appears to be fairly modest? Is he aware that sixteen is not nearly enough to make good the natural wastage of senior administrative staff in the Health Service? Will he see that this scheme has enthusiastic support from his Department?

At present the limitation, as I said, is availability of candidates, but I am most grateful to the two bodies which are doing this work, and they have my enthusiastic support.

When my right hon. Friend says that the limitation is availability of candidates, does he mean the deduction to be drawn that the right type of person is not going into hospital administrative work? Will he agree that unless the best type of administrator is attracted it will be disastrous?

I agree very much with what my hon. Friend has said, but this scheme is in its very early stages and the flow of suitable candidates is bound to increase only gradually.

asked the Minister of Health if he will give the reasons for the continued increase in the numbers of people waiting for admission to hospitals in the Newcastle region.

A special inquiry into these waiting lists and their significance is to be made on behalf of the regional hospital board and the board of governors.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I remind him of the alarm and concern there is about these waiting lists in the Northern Region, that in two years they have increased by 4,770 and the number of people waiting for hospital beds over twelve months has gone up by 1,421? There is disquiet about these figures. We are grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for saying that he will set up an inquiry, but does he believe that the underspending of the capital allocation is responsible for this position? Could he not use private beds to get over the temporary difficulty in relieving waiting lists?

As to the second part of the question, private beds are always available whenever there is an emergency medical need for their use. On the general point, until the significance of these waiting lists is analysed it is quite impossible to say what is the best way in which they can be soonest reduced.

asked the Minister of Health how many hospitals in the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board's area are below their establishment of doctors and nurses; and how this figure compares with the rest of the country.

Seven and seventeen, respectively, out of 179. I regret that I have not been able to get the answer to the second part of the Question in the time available.

Will the Minister consider publishing in the OFFICIAL REPORT a list of those hospitals which are below establishment? What assistance is his Ministry giving to hospitals to help them to reach their establishments?

The right procedure would be for the hon. Gentleman to ask for the names and then I can publish a list in the OFFICIAL REPORT.