asked the Secretary of State for War if he will reconsider his policy not to pay the cost of transporting back to their homes the bodies of soldiers killed outside the United Kingdom during peace time.

No, Sir. I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the Answers given by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence to the hon. Gentleman the Member for East Ham, North (Mr. Prentice) on 10th February, 1960.

That reply was very unsatisfactory. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is feeling among people of all political opinions that his policy in this respect is lacking in humanity? Will he consult his Service colleagues with a view to revising it?

I recognise that there is very wide feeling in this matter, but the policy is one which has been followed by all the Services since the First World War, and I do not consider that a change at this moment would be justified.

That does not necessarily mean that it is right or humane. Why cannot the War Office soften up to this demand? Scores of requests have been made by parents who have lost their boys abroad. This has been raised dozens of times in the House. Both sides of the House agree that the War Office ought to recognise these cases. The cost will not cripple the country. Why cannot the War Office recognise this genuine and sincere demand?

I have said that I recognise the sincerity of feeling on all sides about this matter. I merely called the House's attention to the fact that this is a policy which has been in being for a very long time.

It is not necessarily right.

The hon. Gentleman asked whether the War Office would soften its heart. This is a matter which can be dealt with only on an inter-Service basis, all the Services included. It would then be a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I will seek your permission, Mr. Speaker, to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for War (1) how many widows of Army officers and other ranks are drawing pre-1958 pensions; and when it is proposed to increase them;

I will, with permission—

No, not at all.

The hon. Lady is under some illusion. The words "with permission" do not mean that she may deny the Minister permission.

I will, with or without permission, answer this Question and Question No. 3 together.

As many of the old widows are drawing pensions which are less than the National Assistance scales and are "grandmums", will my right hon. Friend agree that it is not a very good example for recruiting to treat old widows badly and hope to get their grandsons into the Services?

As my hon. Friend knows, I am not responsible for the National Insurance Act. Widow's pensions were raised by 10 per cent. only last year.

On the widows.

asked the Secretary of State for War the estimated cost of providing men in the Service, other than officers, with walking-out dress, and confining the use of khaki to training and barrack duties.

The estimated cost of the new Service dress—the No. 2 dress—for other ranks in the Army is £3 million.

That seems a very large sum and I have no doubt that the right hon. Gentleman has to conserve his resources. In view, however, of the need for further recruitment of conventional troops, is it not desirable to spend part of the money progressively?

I wholly agree with the right hon. Gentleman. This is not entirely

—for pensions in the terms of service on the best evidence available to us at the time.

A monstrous answer.

asked the Secretary of State for War how many National Service meal were discharged before completing their two years' service in the months of August, September, and October, 1960; for what reasons; and if he will make a statement.

With permission, I will circulate the detailed figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT. The totals, however, for the three months are as follows:

Is my right hon. Friend saying that clothing manufacturers have said that they cannot fulfil these orders?

I did not say that; my hon. Friend has misunderstood me. I said that, as I understand it, the clothing trade cannot speed up the orders any further than is at present arranged, but I am having a meeting with representatives of the trade in the very near future to see what can be done.

asked the Secretary of State for War why watching the television programme called "The Army Game" was banned in Pontefract Barracks.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the television programme, "The Army Game," has been banned at the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry depot at Pontefract; and whether this was done with his authority.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the action of the commanding officer at Pontefract barracks in banning a television programme known as "The Army Game" so far as television sets are available within the barracks; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware of the ban imposed by the commanding officer of the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry depot at Pontefract, Yorkshire, upon men under his command from viewing the television series "The Army Game" in barrack rooms; and if he will have the ban lifted.

asked the Secretary of State for War what instructions are given to officers of Her Majesty's forces to guide them in their choice of entertainment for troops under their command; whether special instructions have been issued in respect of the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry; and if he will make a statement.

Barrack rooms in which recruits live in this depot have metered television sets, and a notice was attached to them saying that this programme

"should not be viewed on these sets".

Even though this programme is the most stupid and corny in television—and that is saying something—was it not unwise for the commanding officer to put up a notice that the men should not watch it? If people want tripe outside their working hours, why not let them have it?

The hon. Gentleman calls it tripe. I am glad he has at least suggested that the programme has no bearing on the modern Army. It has just about as little bearing on it as the Wild West films have. In my view, the action of this officer was an error of judgment.

Whilst I appreciate the lifting of the ban, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that a number of serving soldiers consider that there are too many bosses, too much "bull" and too much interference in the private time of men in the Army, all of which militates against further recruitment?

I am aware of that. I am equally aware, however, that if we were to take a poll in the Army, most people would say that this programme was extremely undesirable. We all realise that it must not be taken seriously. I am sure that the Army can afford to be laughed at as much as anybody else. Concerning the action of the officer, these errors of judgment occur in all walks of life and, perhaps, many of us are fortunate not to have the spotlight turned on them quite so much.

In view of this officer's stupidity, which the right hon. Gentleman terms an error of judgment, which resulted in "The Army Game" getting thousands of £s worth of free publicity, plus probably an extra viewing audience of half a million, will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that this does not portray the general level of intelligence of officers of Her Majesty's Forces?

That is, to say the least, an unkind accusation by the hon. Member. I have gone as far as I am prepared to go. It is unfair to try to lampoon officers who are unable to answer back. This officer has had a good military record. I think we had better leave it at that.

asked the Secretary of State for War his estimate of the extra cost of allowing other ranks of the Household Brigade, already in possession of full dress, to walk out in scarlet in London.

The extra cost might be anything up to £100,000 a year.

Does my right hon. Friend think that they will pour coffee over their uniforms every time they go out? Why should they cost anything at all? They are only using the uniforms they already have to go out for a walk. Will my right hon. Friend look into this again?

I have told my hon. Friend that I will certainly look at it again. I do not suggest that they will pour coffee over the uniform every time they go out, but the special material from which this is made is more than usually liable to wear and its use thus would entail something like doubling our consumption.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the material is made in Stroud and wears very well?

asked the Secretary of State for War if he will specify all his reasons for not forming a British Foreign Legion.

The need is not for more units, but for more men to fill those we already have; hence, a foreign legion, unless it were substituted for another unit, would be an additional burden on the Army Vote and a drain on experienced officers and N.C.O.s.

Is this not a rather strange doctrine that the more soldiers there are in the Army, the more they cost and the less we can afford them? Is my right hon. Friend sure that he has gone into the matter? He should not be browbeaten by the generals.

I know that my hon. Friend is not trying to browbeat me. I did not say that the more soldiers we had, the greater the cost. I said that we are trying to get more soldiers, not just more units. I am anxious that with the ending of National Service, which will free a large number of soldiers from training in which they are now engaged, they should become active soldiers and not have to train a foreign legion.

In view of the nature of the reply, I shall seek to raise the matter again.

asked the Secretary of State for War what facilities will be provided by his Department for the training of German troops in the United Kingdom.

asked the Secretary of State for War his latest arrangements for training German troops in Great Britain; and what expenditure he proposes to incur for this purpose.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he will make a statement about the training of German troops in Great Britain: and when they will arrive.

There are six German officers on Army training courses in this country. The cost of the training is borne by the Federal German Government. Apart from individual training of this sort, no arrangements have been made for the training of German troops in the United Kingdom.

What new facilities have been offered? Secondly, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the British people will welcome the Germans here as civilians but not in uniform? Further, will he oppose the highly provocative appointment of the organiser of Hitler's campaign against Russia to the highest post in N.A.T.O.?

The last part of that supplementary question goes so wide of the Question that I cannot answer it. In any event, it would be a question for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence.

Can the Minister tell us whether he has received a telegram from Rudolph Hess in Spandau Prison warmly congratulating him on his decision to have German officers here and offering to become commander-in-chief?

No. I should point out to the hon. Member that it is not only German officers whom we have here. Other officers and other ranks of foreign countries belonging to N.A.T.O. are being trained in this country. We must regard the N.A.T.O. alliance as an alliance and not as individual people.

Has this step been discussed? Since the Minister of Defence evaded the point in a Written Answer which he gave to me on Monday, will the right hon. Gentleman now give the House an assurance that these troops will not be trained, even if it is requested, with missiles or nuclear weapons?

The best way I can cover the hon. Member's supplementary question is to say that this problem would arise only after a recommendation of the N.A.T.O. Military Committee, and after that being endorsed by the N.A.T.O. Council.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that those supplementary questions give a quite misleading impression of public opinion in this country, and that experience has shown that soldiers, sailors and airmen make very good ambassadors and are a very good influence for improving relations between countries?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that no one has any imputation to make whatsoever—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—no one is suggesting that these young German trainees, the oldest of whom would have been at school during the war, share any blame whatever for Hitler's crimes? But is he also aware that there are many people in this country who are reminded by the new German Army, rationally or otherwise, of the old German Army, and for that reason there should be very strong practical reasons before bringing those people for training in this way?

Perhaps I may take this opportunity to congratulate the hon. Member for Woolwich, East (Mr. Mayhew) on his promotion and say that at least he will have the respect of our side of the House, and, I hope, of his side, too. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] I think that it is traditional to say that. Even if hon. Members opposite do not wish to do that, I certainly want to do so. I accept what the hon. Member says and I hope that I have made it perfectly plain that these are our allies. There are safeguards and no question arises at the moment.

asked the Secretary of State for War what is the current cost of recruiting publicity per recruit; what were the comparable figures for 1959 and 1958; and if he will make a report on his television recruiting campaign.

The current cost of recruiting publicity per recruit based on the first six months of this financial year is £22. Costs for 1959 and 1958 were £19 and £13 respectively. I propose to launch a television recruiting campaign early in the next financial year, and I will certainly consider giving the House a report on its results in due course.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these figures suggest that his present publicity methods are increasingly ineffective in securing recruits? Is he aware that it would be a welcome change to have some socially useful commercials on I.T.V.? Will he say how much he is planning to spend on this campaign and when he intends to begin it?

I regard advertisements of this sort—trying to get recruits for the all-Regular Army—as a socially important matter of its own and I am glad that the hon. Member does not disapprove. It would be improper for me to anticipate my Estimates speech when I shall announce what we shall be spending, but I can say that, although the figure sounds rather high, it includes the cost of all publicity and not just television. Once we get the campaign going and the recruits come in, overheads will remain the same but the cost per recruit will become lower. I hope that that is what will happen.

Has the right hon. Gentleman any evidence yet to indicate whether his recent appearance on "Panorama" had any appreciable impact on the viewers?

I have not had anything other than a large number of letters, most of which said that the characters appearing on the programme were appealing, but that the programme was loaded against us.

Has the right hon. Gentleman considered having commercials appearing in the natural break in "The Army Game"?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is satisfied that in respect of rations, domestic help and all other allowances and services British Service men in Berlin enjoy status and treatment equal to those of equivalent status at home or in West Germany.

I am satisfied that in general, soldiers in Berlin are at least as well treated in these respects as their fellows in Western Germany or at home.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that certain Army personnel, but particularly R.A.F. personnel, married officers and other ranks under Army command in West Berlin, feel that they are suffering under quite inexcusable disadvantages and even financial loss in matters of the local overseas allowances, lack of fresh milk, free travel arrangements and even free ration arrangements, which the French receive but which R.A.F. men in West Berlin do not? Will he undertake to have a thorough inquiry into the matter, not just an inspection when everything is laid on and the best food is available which, I assure him, is not the case most of the time, at least for the R.A.F.?

We carried out a complete review—not just an inspection al which everything was laid on—in which living costs in Berlin were examined, and it was concluded that they were less than those in the United Kingdom and that therefore there was no case for a change in the present arrangement; but if the hon. Member has any particular case in mind, I will gladly examine it.

I cannot give a particular case, for reasons which must be obvious to the Minister with his experience. This is a much more general matter. It has been established by independent accountants in the R.A.F. that the cost of living in West Berlin is higher than in West Germany in the main. Will he undertake to have a further inquiry in a general sense?

The hon. Member need not have any worry about submitting a special case to me on behalf of any constituent or friend of his. He can leave out the name if he so wishes. I cannot speak for the Royal Air Force, but the Army has undertaken an examination. However, I shall be happy to look at any point which the hon. Member puts to me.

asked the Postmaster-General the number of applicants awaiting connection to the High Wycombe and Bourne End telephone exchanges, respectively; and what is the waiting list percentage of total sub scribers in each case.

The figures at 30th September last were 563 at High Wycombe and 107 at Bourne End. The percentages were 13·8 and 5·9 respectively.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, while I welcome the slight but acceptable decrease in the waiting list at Bourne End, the last time I asked about High Wycombe the figure was 3·3 per cent. and it has now gone up to 13 per cent.? Is he further aware that the use of the existing service by present subscribers is so great that his present plans for dealing with the waiting list are grossly inadequate? Will he do something to speed up and improve the service in High Wycombe?

As a matter of urgency, I am installing an additional number of operating positions at High Wycombe, and both there and at Bourne End there are to be additional cables. I think that within six months practically all the existing waiting lists will have been mopped up.

asked the Postmaster-General the present waiting list percentage in the Oxford telephone area; and if it is still the highest percentage in the country.

The present figure of 5 per cent. is still the highest in the country. I am doing all I can to meet the very high demand for telephones in the Oxford area. The percentage increase in the number of telephones installed in 1959–60 was higher in the Oxford area than in any other part of the country.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the situation appears to be getting worse, because twelve months ago the figure was 3·5 per cent.? What is the national average?

The national average is a good deal lower than in the case of Oxford, but the present waiting list in the Oxford area is about 2,600 and I hope to install about 6,000 telephones in the district in the next year.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps he will now take to speed up service on the Continental telephone exchange; and what representations he has received in this connection from the Foreign Press Association, from other bodies, and from individual members of the public.

I have received representations from a number of interests. The delays are due to a shortage of French-speaking operators and to an unexpectedly rapid increase in traffic. I have announced increases in the language allowance and also in the standard rates of pay. I am pressing forward with the mechanisation of our services with the Continent. I am glad to say there has recently been some improvement in the service.

Is the Postmaster-General aware that many people, including journalists and people with business reasons for telephoning, as well as private citizens, think that London has much the slowest Continental service of any big capital city in Europe? Is he aware that although the speed of being put through when one gets the Continental exchange may have improved, one may have to wait up to fifteen minutes before getting the Continental exchange? Does he appreciate that that is having a disastrous effect on foreign correspondents in this country, and will the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that something effective will be done?

I am very well aware of these criticisms and I have met a number of people about them in the last three months, during which time I have taken a number of active steps to improve the position. The time of answering has been halved at this exchange, but even so I admit that at present it is not satisfactory and I intend to push on until we have it right.

Has the right hon. Gentleman had any contact with education authorities, as the main recruiting difficulty appears to be on the grounds of linguistic qualifications, so that it might be a good idea to get in touch with education authorities about the matter?

That has been done.

asked the Postmaster-General the number of private telephone subscribers sharing lines at the latest available date, and at 31st December in each of the past five years.

As at 30th September last, about 1 million subscribers were sharing telephone lines. The numbers have not varied much since 1955 when the figure was 902,000.

Will the right hon. Gentleman arrange for publicity designed to attract new subscribers to be discontinued if it means that those new subscribers will be brought into the service at the expense of existing subscribers who will have to go on to party lines?

I am prepared to examine that point, but at the same time we must bear in mind that the first priority is to give telephone service to people who are waiting for it.

asked the Postmaster-General to what extent breakdowns in telephone services have increased during the past year; to what extent commercial and business firms have priority over private householders for repairs; why rebates on accounts are not granted to telephone users where breakdowns continue for a week; and whether he will arrange for users suffering from telephone breakdowns for more than a day to be notified about the probable length of time before service is restored.

There has been widespread damage to telephone plant in the floods and storms of recent weeks, and I regret the inconvenience caused to our customers, although I am not responsible for the weather.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, but may I ask him whether this practice obtains in any other part of the country? In view of his promise that he would examine the matter, could he give some encouragement to me and others that some courtesy of this kind will be extended to users?

As I say, we will look at the suggestion embodied in the last phrase of the Question. As regards rebates from rentals, these are, and will continue to be, considered very sympathetically.

asked the Postmaster-General why it takes fifteen minutes to obtain a reply when one dials INT for an international call on a Sunday morning.

A delay of fifteen minutes is quite exceptional, and I regret it. I am making inquiries to ascertain the reason for the delay and will communicate with the hon. Gentleman.

Is not the real reason why the Postmaster-General has not an adequate staff that he does not pay them properly? Will he please take steps to remedy this so that the public may have an adequate service?

No. The hon. Gentleman is rather off the beam. In that particular exchange on that particular morning we had redundant staff. As regards pay and conditions, I have already referred in an earlier Answer to improvements which we have recently given.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps he is taking to improve the efficiency of the delivery of the morning mail in Central London, in view of the delays taking place, details of which have been given to him.

I very much regret that shortage of postmen and staffing difficulties have caused some delay in the morning delivery of letters in parts of Central London. I am hopeful that the recent announcement of a pay increase will help with recruitment and that this will lead to an improvement in the situation.

While I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask if she is aware that delays of the mails, which have been going on for a long time, are very serious for those firms in Central London which have large post-bags? They have numbers of their staff doing nothing.

I can assure my hon. Friend that we are well aware of the difficulties caused by these delays in the mails and are doing our best to overcome them.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will arrange, in consultation with the British Transport Commission, for the provision of additional safety measures for the conveying of mail bags on British Railways, such as padlocks on the door of the grill and a lock on the grill itself.

asked the Postmaster-General what further steps are being taken to protect the mails on trains from thieves.

asked the Postmaster-General what action he is taking to prevent mail thefts on trains.

Bolts and chains have already been fitted on certain trains to protect the guards and the mails. In collaboration with my right hon. Friend, the Minister of Transport and the British Transport Commission we are working urgently on a number of other security measures, including some on the lines mentioned by the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. D. Jones).

The guards of British Railways will welcome that reply if the action is expedited without delay. At the moment they are under grave misgiving because these recommendations are not in effect.

I am sure that that is appreciated by my right hon. Friend and by the British Transport Commission.

Order. The right hon. Gentleman cannot answer that which is not a question.

If the various measures now under contemplation prove inadequate, will the right hon. Gentleman propose, as a temporary measure, the use of troops to guard mails on the trains when they are not watching "The Army Game" on television?

Will my right hon. Friend see that as great as possible an amount of attention is paid to the safeguarding of mail on passenger corridor trains, which seem especially vulnerable?

I entirely agree with what my hon. Friend says, and we have certain measures under way at the moment to deal with the situation.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) if he will state the minimum and maximum time taken for delivering a small parcel between London and Yorkshire, Lancashire and Cheshire, respectively; whether he is aware that some parcels take as long as eight days, and that in one case a parcel took four days to travel seven miles; and whether, in view of the bad service, he will either reduce the cost or effect an immediate improvement in the service;

Dependent on the time of posting, the parcels to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers should normally be delivered the next day or the day after, but if a weekend intervenes delivery may take a little longer. I am aware that some parcels and also letters are not getting through as quickly as they should and I very much regret this. Staff shortages and rail delays both make their contribution to this situation. In collaboration with the British Transport Commission, we are doing our best to overcome these difficulties.

Supplementary to Question No. 29. Would not my hon. Friend agree that it is most unfair these days for the public to blame the Post Office for the disgraceful service that we all have to suffer and far the long time that it takes to deliver parcels which in some cases is worse than in the days of the Pony Express? Would she consider issuing a statement pointing out that this bad service is entirely due to the greatest money-wasters of all our nationalised industries, British Railways, with their dirty, late, draughty and dangerous trains?

The use of unnecessary epithets in a question is out of order.

On a point of order. I am terribly sorry but I did not hear what you said, Mr. Speaker, because of the noise made by hon. Members opposite. I am sorry if I did anything wrong, but what did I do wrong?

The hon. and gallant Member asked a supplementary question which was out of order, and if he will be so good as to look in HANSARD at what I said, he will see why.

While not wishing to associate myself in any way with the exaggerated statement made by the hon. and gallant Member for Knutsford (Lieut.-Colonel Bromley-Davenport), but recognising that he has some virtue in the Question that he has put about the delays that are taking place, may I ask whether, in view of the fact that a high proportion of the delays, in parcel mails in particular, must be attributed to the reorganisation schemes that are going on now on the railways, the hon. Lady will not consider a temporary alternative whereby the Post Office itself will undertake some of the responsibilities now borne by the railways, especially in reducing the number of transfer points on the railway system?

We would not wish to dodge any of our own responsibilities or the responsibility of keeping our own house in order. It is perfectly true that many of our difficulties arise from delays on the railway. We are in constant touch with British Railways about this and we are constantly getting them to improve their service. We are looking into every way in which we can improve the service that we give to the public and we are looking for alternative methods of speeding up mail delivery.

Lieut.-Colonel Bromley-Davenport.

Apologise.

Go and play "Animal Grab".

My hon. and gallant Friend may be interested to know that we have been looking into the possibility of improving the service. One thing that we have been able to do is to put on a new train between Crewe and Manchester which helps to speed up the delivery of mail in Manchester. In this way we think we can help with the delivery of mail between Manchester and London.

Is not the hon. Lady being a little less than fair in not telling the House quite distinctly that there are contributory causes to delays in mail and parcel deliveries by the railways, such as fog-bound conditions holding up trains and addresses not correctly written, which is a very big complaint? Does not she agree that this ought to be referred back to the hon. and gallant Member for Knutsford (Lieut.-Colonel Bromley-Davenport)? Knutsford can be very "nutty" sometimes.

My impression is that all that the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr. Manuel) has done in the form of a question is to give information, and that is out of order.

On a point of order. The gist of the supplementary question asked by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Knutsford (Lieut.-Colonel Bromley-Davenport) refers to the efficiency of Macclesfield Post Office. May I make it clear that the post office there is highly efficient?

rose—

Withdraw.

Order. The efficiency or inefficiency of the Macclesfield or any other post office does not raise a point of order for the Chair.

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the delays to letters posted in the London area, particularly those posted on Fridays, he will engage more sorting staff to deal with peak loads.

There is at present a shortage of postmen for sorting in the London area. Every effort is being made to improve the position and the recently announced pay increase for civil servants should help. If my hon. Friend will let me have details of any delays which have come to his notice I shall be glad to look into the matter to see whether some improvement can be effected.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that when the present difficulties are mastered it should be possible to get back to the practice of posting a letter in London at 5.30 on a Friday evening to reach suburbs such as Twickenham by first post on Saturday morning?

We accept that, whatever steps we take to make ourselves as efficient as possible, we must be eternally vigilant.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) the total value of all land and buildings owned by his Department; and how much of this is fully utilised;

The Commercial Accounts show that the net book value of Post Office land, buildings and accommodation plant as £133·5 million at 31st March, 1960. In virtually all cases this is fully utilised or earmarked for future use. I cannot say what percentage of Post Office property is scheduled for improvement, modernisation and extension, but capital expenditure last year in connection with buildings was equal to about 10 per cent. of the book value of the property.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. May I ask whether she would consider, and get her right hon. Friend to consider, the point that in the expansion of Post Office property all sites should be used to the full? In connection with certain expansions throughout the country, will she bear in mind that greater economic use might be made of certain sites which, even if the Post Office cannot use them, might well be leased to bring further income to the Post Office account?

I can assure my hon. Friend that we take all those considerations into account.

Will the hon. Lady assure the House that the first consideration of herself and her right hon. Friend will be to see that the Post Office as a service has adequate accommodation for its work?

I can gladly give that assurance.

asked the Postmaster-General on how many occasions during September, October and November, respectively, letters posted in Central London before 6 p.m. were not included in the first delivery at North Berwick on the following morning.

The main mails containing correspondence posted in Central London for first delivery in North Berwick failed to connect once in October and three times in November. The connections were maintained throughout September. As we do not keep records of the passage of unregistered letters through the post, I cannot say on how many occasions individual items due to connect with the first delivery failed to do so. But I assure my hon. Friend that we will do all we can to keep delays to a minimum.

In view of the fact that those of us who use the East Coast route find that the train service to Scotland runs reasonably well on time, will my hon. Friend say whether there is a very tight connection involved between the sorting of letters in Central London, and their catching the mail?

Yes. The connection is rather tight, because the last collection from street boxes is at 5.30 p.m. and from the head post office at 6 o'clock, and the train goes from King's Cross at 8.20 p.m. There is certain building development work going on at King's Cross Station which will help us to get mails on to the trains faster.

asked the Postmaster-General why letters which are posted in Central London before 6 p.m. are frequently not delivered in Edinburgh before 9 o'clock the next morning.

Letters posted up to 5.30 p.m. in the street boxes in Central London and up to 6 p.m. at head district offices should get first delivery in Edinburgh next weekday. Unfortunately, due to late running of the trains which carry the letters the connection is not always made. In collaboration with the British Transport Commission I am seeing what can be done to improve matters and I will write to my hon. Friend as soon as possible.

In view of my hon. Friend's reply to my supplementary question on Question No. 37, about the tightness of the connection, may I ask whether she has given consideration to the possibility of sending letters north by air mail in future? If so, and perhaps until that comes about, would it be a proposition perhaps to have posting done in Central London at 5 o'clock instead of 5.30 and thereby reduce the tightness of the connection?

There is some difficulty with what we call the "down special" from Euston because of the modernisation work on that line. We are considering the possibility of sending mails by air. I would not wish to bring forward the latest time of posting. A Committee is sitting at present to consider the distribution of mails to see how we can give the best possible service to the public.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will extend to two months the minimum interval at which journals of charitable organisations must be published in order to qualify for registration as newspapers, and so enjoy reduced postal rates.

No, Sir. The newspaper post is already running at a heavy loss and I am sorry that I should not be justified in adding to this by doing as my hon. Friend suggests.

Is my hon. Friend aware that such an extension would be a great boon to such charitable organisations as the Royal Air Force Association, whose journal is published every other month, though in every other respect it complies with the regulations for registration as a newspaper?

I recognise the good grounds on which my hon. Friend asks for this concession. But the great difficulty is that if we give a concession in this respect there are very many other educational and charitable journals which would wish to have it. In view of the great loss on these mails, we do not feel justified in doing it at the present time.

asked the Postmaster-General on how many occasions he has required the British Broadcasting Corporation to refrain from broadcasting plays or films containing inaccurate presentations of British industrial operations.

None, Sir.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that, when such serious types of programme are televised, it should be the duty of the B.B.C. to see that they are factual productions? Is he aware that a recent production called "Pay Day" was an insult to both management and men in the mining industry, and that it presented an entirely inaccurate account of how a pit is worked under the Coal Industry Nationalisation Act and of the miners' conduct of trade union business at pit level? Is it not time that this industry's operations, and the lives of its communities, were properly dealt with by the B.B.C.?

I have already said to the hon. Gentleman, in reply to an earlier Question, that this was intended to be a purely fictional work. It was a play, and as such it was not intended to be factual. But having said that, I do appreciate the feelings of the hon. Gentleman and of all people who work in the mining industry, and I am quite sure that what he has said today will have a good effect.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that we are now reaching a stage in which it is becoming increasingly difficult to get men into the pits, and that programmes of this kind, casting slurs on the miners, are of no help? If we have a crisis in the industry, which we might well have, it will have a serious effect on the country as a whole.

I have tried to be fair and to put this matter in its proper balance. This play was seen by many people, and most people would regard it as a work of drama and not think of it as a reflection upon the mining community.

asked the Postmaster-General what communication he has had from the British Broadcasting Corporation on the subject of colour television; and what has been his reply.

asked the Postmaster-General what representations the British Broadcasting Corporation has made to him with a view to commencing coloured television on 405 lines without waiting for the South and Television Broadcasting Committee report; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in order to provide guidance for the public and the radio industry, he will state his policy on colour television.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware of the concern caused to the radio industry by the proposal of the British Broadcasting Corporation to introduce colour television on the present line standards; and whether he will give an assurance that he will not permit such broadcasts before a decision on line standards is taken.

asked the Postmaster-General if, when replying to the British Broadcasting Corporation's application for permission to introduce colour television, he will make it clear that no such permission can be given before the Pilkington Committee reports.

asked the Postmaster-General when it is now anticipated, approximately, that colour television will be provided by the British Broadcasting Corporation; and what consideration has been given to the need for an increase in the cost of licences to meet increased expenditure on this account.

On 9th December the B.B.C. sought my approval to the start of an experimental public colour television service in November, 1961. I shall shortly be replying to its request.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that decision will be welcomed? [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] If hon. Members wait until I have finished they may find out why. Is my right hon. Friend also aware that the Television Advisory Committee's Report was signed by the B.B.C., and, for good reasons, it said that we should not start colour on obsolete line standards?

That is perfectly true.

Despite what the Postmaster-General's hon. Friends are saying behind him, is this not a very unimaginative and unfair policy? If the B.B.C. is sufficiently advanced scientifically and technically, why should he force it to mark time simply because other interested bodies are either unwilling or unable to make the necessary researches? Will not this unfortunate decision of his mean, in effect, that this country will shortly be lagging behind other countries in the development of colour television?

No, Sir. Nothing that I have said in my reply in any way detracts from my appreciation of what the B.B.C. has already done for colour television. At the same time, however, it would be a profound mistake for any British Government to make a decision on colour television in advance of a decision on line standards. That would be putting the cart before the horse, and it would encourage a public demand for television sets of the existing kind—405 lines—with colour, which might well be completely obsolete and out of date within a few years.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that if his Department finally decides on the new lineage, we may enjoy the possibility of a big export market in Europe?

Indeed that is quite possible.

Could the right hon. Gentleman clear up one point made in his Answer? I have not seen the Advisory Committee's Report, but he said that the B.B.C. had asked for permission to operate an experimental system. Did the Advisory Committee report on an experimental or a commercial system being introduced?

The Advisory Committee reported on the question of whether we should embark on colour television in the near future. The advice of the Committee was against that idea. I will send the hon. Gentleman a copy of the Report to study

That does not answer the question.

Nor did the right hon. Gentleman answer the second part of my supplementary question. In view of the delay which must inevitably occur in receiving the report of the Pilkington Committee, does not he think that we shall lag seriously behind other nations if we procastinate in this way?

There is a good deal of misapprehension about what is happening in other countries. In the United States, for instance, I am told that at present there is a very small number of sets capable of taking colour compared with the vast number of monochrome sets. In Japan the cost of a colour television set is £500. I am sure that at present this thing is just not a "starter".

Is it not the case that the B.B.C. signed the Advisory Committee's Report recommending the opposite of what it is now asking for? Is the B.B.C. not behaving like the Labour Party—voting different ways on the same resolution?

Yes, Sir. The representative of the B.B.C. on the Advisory Committee signed the Report.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the uncertainty created by the B.B.C.'s announcement is deterring a number of people from buying conventional sets, to the detriment of the trade?

In view of what I have said today, that should not happen any longer.

asked the Postmaster-General what requests he has received from the British Broadcasting Corporation for permission to operate local sound broadcasting services.

The B.B.C. has asked me to approve plans for the introduction, in stages, of local sound broadcasting. I have told the Chairman that the Government does not feel able to authorise an important innovation of this kind at a time when the committee of inquiry is reviewing the whole field.

Does this mean that all normal developments in broadcasting in this country must now be held up for four or five years until the Pilkington Committee has reported and the House has dealt with its Report? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that for very good reasons we in Sheffield want a local sound broadcasting service, and that the B.B.C., I understand, is prepared to go ahead with that development? Why should the citizens of Sheffield have to wait five years for a development that can take place pretty soon if only the Government behave properly?

It simply means that all major innovations in television broadcasting will not be permitted until such time as the Pilkington Committee has reported—[HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"]—because it would be entirely unreasonable for the Government, having set up that Committee, to take over its responsibilities from it.

Would it not be better for the Pilkington Committee to have some experience of such a station and would not a pilot scheme in Sheffield help rather than hinder the Committee in its consideration? Can the right hon. Gentleman assure us that there is no commercial consideration behind this blank refusal?

There are no commercial considerations at all.

The right hon. Gentleman should look behind him.

The right hon. Gentleman's hon. Friends are grinning all over their faces.

If it would help the Pilkington Committee to have an experiment in local sound broadcasting in Sheffield, I have no doubt that the Committee will ask for it.

Why does not the right hon. Gentleman tell the House of Commons, what everybody knows to be the case, that some back-benchers opposite and those who have commercial interests in this are determined to prevent the B.B.C. from going in for local sound broadcasting so that they can make fat profits in the future?

No, Sir. I think that is entirely untrue. The hon. Member's approach to this question is completely warped. The position is that to start local sound broadcasting in this country at present, whether by the B.B.C., the I.T.A., or by commercial interests, would be wrong when we have asked the Pilkington Committee to consider it.

In view of the Postmaster-General's unsatisfactory reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Postmaster-General what consultations he has had with the Independent Television Authority under subsection (4) of Section 4 of the Television Act, 1954, regarding the amount of advertising which may be broadcast each hour.

None, Sir.

What is the maximum amount of advertising now permitted per hour, and when will six minutes be laid down as was promised when the Act was passed?

The I.T.A. rule is that the limit per hour should be six minutes on average. It has, as I think the House knows, already announced that the maximum amount in any one clock hour has been progressively reduced from eight minutes in 1959 to seven and a half minutes in September of this year, and that it will be reduced to seven minutes as from 24th December.

asked the Postmaster-General when he intends to authorise the necessary expenditure by the British Broadcasting Corporation for the extension of television and very high frequency broadcasting services to the islands of Barra, Benbecula, and North and South Uist.

The B.B.C. says that the possibility of further stations in the Outer Hebrides will be considered when the stations I have approved for Lewis and Skye are working, and their effective range established.

Would the right hon. Gentleman go a little further and give us some sort of idea about the time-table? I am grateful for his reply.

All I can say is that at present I am awaiting the B.B.C.'s Stage III proposals. I do not know when we shall get them, but as soon as I do I will give them urgent consideration.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he expects to receive the report of the Pilkington Committee by 1st August, 1961.

No, Sir; but, as I told my hon. Friend last week, I am sure that the Committee will report to me just as soon as it can.

If the Pilkington Committee is not likely to report soon, will my right hon. Friend consider asking it for an interim report on the basic question of lineage? Surely the technical experts have thrashed out this matter thoroughly. The delay is holding up technical developments in the whole television field.

I am loth to ask the Pilkington Committee for interim reports on any phase of the field into which it is looking, but I am equally sure that if the Committee felt it right to make an interim report on its own initiative, say, on line definition, it would not hesitate to do so.

Can the Postmaster-General estimate when the Committee is likely to make its report, in view of the serious Questions which have appeared on the Order Paper today?

I hope it will be either by the end of 1961 or the early part of 1962. The Committee is getting down to its job in the most remarkable manner.