asked the Minister of Transport if he is yet in a position to make a detailed statement on the progress made towards the construction of British-built nuclear merchant ships and fishing trawlers; and when he expects the first of these to be sea-going.

asked the Minister of Transport when he will announce the award of a tender for the construction of the first British nuclear-powered merchant ship.

Examination of the tenders for a nuclear reactor and propelling machinery suitable for installation in a tanker of 65,000 tons deadweight is proceeding as quickly as possible, but I am not yet able to say when a decision will be made. Nuclear propulsion cannot reasonably be considered for any but large ships at this stage.

Is there any insuperable technical objection to the use of nuclear propulsion for smaller ships, or does the reply of the Minister mean that it can never be used in that way? If so, would the right hon. Gentleman make a categorical statement about it in order to save wasting time, energy and material in wasteful experiments?

It would be silly, I think, to say that certain technical feats such as that could never be achieved, but I think the first thing to do is to take the optimum size, which is about 65,000 tons dead weight, make that, if we possibly can, an economic proposition, and see where we go from there.

Does my right hon. Friend recall That it is two years since the Galbraith Committee was appointed, and it is six months since he received tenders? Further, does he agree with the view that, until Britain has practical experience with a ship at sea, she is unlikely to obtain any lead in this new development? Cannot he say when he will make a decision in this matter?

I do not think that an undue length of time has elapsed. The five tenders were received on 29th July last, and the technical committee has considered them. It is a very complex subject, and we must not make any mistakes in our construction of a nuclear ship. The technical committee has practically concluded its assessment and it will be meeting shortly to draw up its report.

The time has surely arrived when the House as a whole is entitled to know what is the shipping policy of Her Majesty's Government. This is only one small part of it. Does the right hon. Gentleman fully appreciate the concern which has been expressed on both sides of the House about this matter? When are we to learn from the Government what their intentions are for shipping in this country?

That is another subject, and there is a later Question on the Order Paper about it.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will have discussions with the United States administration about initiating international action to deal with ships sailing under flags of convenience.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the Answer given to the hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Collick) on 25th January.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that Answer, which I heard, did not contain an assurance that my right hon. Friend would initiate talks on this very important subject with the new United States Administration? Is he further aware that, while six years ago the total of shipping registered under flags of convenience was one-eleventh of the world's total, it is now one-seventh of the world's total, and that it is a matter of very great urgency?

That is true, but I must point out to my hon. Friend that in its recent survey the General Council of British Shipping indicated that in its view international agreement and action in the matter of flags of convenience would make little or no progress in the foreseeable future.

While it may be premature to ask for discussions with the new Administration in the United States, will the Minister give the House an indication that, as soon as possible and as soon as the time appears to be right, he will make the necessary approaches in order to have negotiations and discussions on this all-important matter?

If at any moment I think that it would be worth while and fruitful for negotiations to take place, I will certainly do so.

asked the Minister of Transport what tests were carried out by his Department to prove that their standard life jacket would ensure that an unconscious person over 15 stone in weight would have his face held above water by the jacket.

Tests were carried out on three men, one weighing just over 17 stone and the others about 18 stone each. It was found that when their bodies were inert the standard lifejacket supported them with their heads well clear of the water. The tests made use of information about the position taken up by an unconscious body in the water which was derived from a film of a test made during the last war.

When my right hon. Friend last answered a Question by me about this matter, he made the point that in other tests which had been made a live, conscious body had been used to imitate an unconscious body. Can my right hon. Friend say exactly how he managed to overcome that difficulty?

I normally find supplementary questions from my hon. Friend very lucid, but I was rather confused by this one. If he thinks that there is any test that anybody else would like my Ministry to make on their own apparatus, we would be willing to do so.

asked the Minister of Transport what amount of capital expenditure he has authorised for each of the South Wales ports during the next three years; and if he will make a statement.

Provision for expenditure of £1,045,000 in all, of which some £670,000 will be spent this year, is made in the British Transport Commission's proposed investment programme for 1961. I am informed that this is in respect of existing commitments on minor projects. No submissions have been put to me for later years.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a good deal of evidence that the docks in South Wales which are owned by the British Transport Commission are lagging behind docks such as those of Avonmouth not owned by the Commission in the matter of modernisation and the provision of up-to-date capital equipment? Will he consider that fact in assessing the needs of these docks in future?

I am aware that I must always wait for a submission to me from the British Transport Commission, because it runs the day-to-day business and it knows best how large the volume of traffic is at the ports. In 1960 the volume of imports through the South Wales ports increased by a figure three times that of 1938.

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether the South Wales ports are working now to capacity, or what percentage of capacity they are working at?

Perhaps I could have notice of that question.

asked the Minister of Transport what number of vessels registered in the United Kingdom is idle; and when he intends to meet the representatives of the Chamber of Shipping to consider what measures are required to bring these vessels into service.

On 1st January, sixty-seven such vessels, totalling 503,500 gross tons, were laid up for lack of employment. The employment of shipping is a matter for the shipping industry. The General Council of British Shipping in its recent Report suggests how the Government might help the industry and I hope soon to discuss that Report with the Council.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that he has sufficient time to give satisfactory attention to the present state of the shipping industry and its future? Is he not overburdened with the railways and roads and a variety of cognate subjects? Would he not advise the Prime Minister—and I say this with the greatest respect to himself—that he might appoint somebody to take charge of shipping?

No, Sir. I do not think that there has been undue waste of time. We have only just received the Report of the General Council of British Shipping and I am seeing the Council a week today.

Would my right hon. Friend consider at this juncture, when there is a new Administration in the United States, making some approach so that there might be new international discussions about these difficult problems, because only in that way shall we get anywhere?

I answered a supplementary question earlier on that point, and if I thought that any good would be done by it I would get in touch with them straight away.

asked the Minister of Transport on what date he intends to announce to the House his proposals for future shipping policy, following his consideration of the report from the General Council of British Shipping.

I cannot yet say when the Government will have completed its consideration and discussion of the General Council's Report. But, as I said in answer to a supplementary question earlier, I am meeting the General Council a week today.

Could my right hon. Friend give an assurance here and now that the problems which the General Council of British Shipping raised will not be lost in all the attention that is given by him, however essential it may be, to roads and railways?

I think that it has taken the General Council eighteen months to produce a Report and only a few days for me to arrange to meet the Council. I do not think that it is reasonable, therefore, to say that there has been any undue delay.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that for much longer than eighteen months Questions have been asked from both sides of the House about the condition of British shipping and that he was made aware of the difficulty long ago? Is the right hon. Gentleman seized of the importance of British shipping in the national economy, and is he aware that, unless he does something subsequent to considering the Report, we shall have to put a Motion on the Order Paper to ask that shipping be transferred from him to some other more competent Minister?

I am certain that the House will agree with me that the Council knows its own business better than anyone else. It has taken eighteen months to prepare its Report. I have agreed to meet the Council straight away and I think that that is not unbusinesslike by any standards,

Will my right hon. Friend pay particular attention to that part of the Report dealing with coastal shipping, about which immediate action is required?

The whole Report will be studied, including that part of it which deals with coastal shipping.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of us feel that since he came to power he has taken upon himself many extra powers to deal with other problems, both of road and rail, and we sincerely believe that it is not possible for one Minister, in addition to dealing with roads and railways, to take over these other problems of shipping? I assure the right hon. Gentleman that there is nothing personal in this.

I cannot say anything more except that I am seeing the Council as quickly as possible and I do not think that anybody could see it in a shorter time than that within which have arranged to see it.

asked the Minister of Transport what plans he has for strengthening the Tothill bridge on A.34 over the railway line at Burghclere. Hampshire.

We expect to reconstruct the bridge within the next three years.

I thank my hon. Friend for that first information on the subject, but is he aware that this bridge has been unsafe for a very long time, that the use of the detour by traffic results in higher costs, and that a great deal of heavy traffic does not use the detour and presumably, therefore, runs into danger? Is it not possible to expedite the work by, say, twelve months?

I wrote to my hon. Friend in detail about this on 22nd September last, so this is not the first time he has heard of our intention to reconstruct within three years. We shall certainly proceed with the work as quickly as we can. Last year, we authorised repairs costing £1,100 to ensure the life of the existing bridge for a further period.

asked the Minister of Transport what plans he has for improving the crossing of A.30 and A.34 at Sutton Scotney, Hampshire.

We propose eventually to construct a by-pass of Sutton Scotney. It will extend from the eastern junction of A.30 with A.34 to a point on A.34 about one mile to the south. At the same time, the junction will be improved.

I thank my hon. Friend for that Reply, but has he closed his mind entirely to the possibility of making minor improvements to this very dangerous junction, possibly by putting in traffic lights, because at present, during the summer months, it is quite impossible at times for north-bound and south-bound traffic to cross the east-west road?

Our general policy is to avoid the use of traffic lights on trunk roads wherever possible, but I will look into the possibility of some improvement such as my hon. Friend suggests.

asked the Minister of Transport what progress is being made in finding and upgrading roads alternative to those sections of the A.30 that are heavily congested in the summer months.

My officers are in close touch with the local highway authorities and the police so that the signposting of alternative routes adopted last year is repeated this summer.

Will my right hon. Friend accept it from me that, although I spent my holidays in Cornwall last summer, I did not notice these alternative routes and I do not intend to go to Cornwall again until these murderous 150 miles out of London are improved? Is not the real solution to find some suitable alternative routes, particularly avoiding the road from Honiton and Exeter?

If my hon. Friend will tell me where he is taking his summer holiday this year, I will send him details of alternative routes.

asked the Minister of Transport what decision has been reached regarding the Eton-Windsor relief road.

Our approval of the revised proposals for this road was notified to the Berkshire and Buckinghamshire County Councils on 3rd January.

I am grateful for that, but can the hon. Gentleman say when the construction is likely to begin? Does he realise that the picturesque and historic High Street of Eton is now. because of lorry traffic from the Midlands to Southampton, becoming dangerous for old people, for children at the elementary school and for the boys at the college—particularly at the "Burning Bush"—and will he expedite the construction as much as possible?

It is not really for me to expedite the construction because the river crossing requires a Private Bill which is being promoted during this Session of Parliament by the two county councils to which I referred. I cannot, therefore, give any firm date for the start of construction.

asked the Minister of Transport when the line of the Edenfield-Rawtenstall by-pass will be fixed.

We hope to publish our proposals for the line of the by-pass of Edenfield and the Rawtenstall level crossing later this year. There will then be three months for the submission of objections. How soon thereafter the line can be established will depend on whether it is necessary to hold a public inquiry.

In view of the hardship to local residents and the inconvenience to the local authorities, will the hon. Gentleman assure me that there will be no undue delay in removing the uncertainty which now exists?

Yes, certainly. Everything will depend upon the volume of objections we receive and whether we have to hold a public inquiry. If local residents are anxious to see the thing through and do not abject, we may proceed with it much more quickly.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he has yet received the report of the study he ordered into the question of tolls on future motorways.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will make a statement on the progress made, and the decisions taken, in the study given by his Department on the charging of tolls on new motorways.

Good progress is being made with this study, but I have not yet received the report.

When he is considering the report, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that, despite increased expenditure on roads in this country, we still compare unfavourably with other countries and that, even so, some of those countries are turning to toll roads?

Yes, I will bear that in mind.

Is there any point is speeding up traffic by better roads and then slowing it down by tolls?

It may not necessarily be slowed down by tolls if modern methods are used.

asked the Minister of Transport how many miles of dual carriageway existed in 1945, 1951 and 1959, respectively.

As nearly as can be estimated from our records, there were, at the end of 1945, roughly 350 miles of dual carriageway road in England and Wales; at the end of 1951, there were approximately 400 miles, and at the end of 1959, 652 miles.

Since this is one of the best ways of preventing accidents, will my right hon. Friend press on with the job as fast as he can?

We are doing so. We have more of these dual carriageways under construction than we have ever had in the history of the country.

asked the Minister of Transport how many road accidents there were in the County Borough of Derby in the calendar year 1960; how many were fatal; and how many people were seriously injured.

There were 691 accidents involving death or injury. I am sorry to say that 18 people were killed and 241 were seriously injured.

I am sure that the Parliamentary Secretary and his right hon. Friend will agree that these are horrifying figures. Will they do everything in their power to help the Derby Council to carry through the road improvements it wishes to make? Secondly, will the Minister call for an expert inquiry into the present cost of road accidents to the nation to ascertain how heavy it is?

With regard to the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, we shall, of course, consistent with our duty generally to improve roads throughout the country, do all we can to assist in Derby. With regard to the second part, I very much doubt that an inquiry of that kind would give us any more information than we have already about the causes of accidents.

During the latter part of the war, there was such an inquiry, which proved that the cost of accidents to the nation—which did not fall on the Chancellor of the Exchequer but on the citizens of the country—was enormously heavy. It must be very much greater today. Would it not help to put the problem in proper perspective if we knew what the cost was?

I am sorry to disagree with the right hon. Gentleman, but we have looked at this very carefully in recent months and we are quite satisfied that there would be no great advantage to be obtained from an inquiry of that kind.

May I press the Minister?

No. I think we ought to go on. I am sorry.

With great respect, I have had such an inquiry made—

I think that the right hon. Gentleman did not understand me. Mr. Pannell, Question No. 14.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will allow the continued use of the special car parks in the central area of London, subject to the requirements of ceremonial occasions, until a sufficient amount of permanent off-street parking has been provided for motorists.

The sites in the Royal Parks were offered by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Works as free car parks on the understanding that this was a temporary measure in the exceptional conditions of Christmas. The other central sites were provided on the same basis. If any of their owners find it convenient to keep them in use for parking on a commercial basis, I should certainly not object.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the car parking problem for motorists is not simply a Christmas problem but is a continuing and increasing problem? Will not he consider asking my right hon. Friend the Minister of Works to keep open the Horse Guards Parade, Constitution Hill and the Mall, for instance, until other more permanent provisions, such as my right hon. Friend's Bill which is before the House this afternoon, can be brought into operation?

Perhaps my hon. Friend will put down a Question to that effect to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Works and ask him direct instead of via me. In respect of one or two of the sites which were used in the central areas, negotiations are going on with a view to their being kept open and a charge made.

Will the Minister support the representations made by his hon. Friend to the Minister of Works to keep some of these car parks open?

I would rather not rise to that fly.

asked the Minister of Transport what steps he intends to take to obtain a nationally satisfactory standard of street lighting, bearing in mind the substantially lower accident rates in better lighted roads and the widely varying quality of street lighting used by the 3,000 different lighting authorities of England and Wales.

There is already a British Standard Code of Practice for Street Lighting which recommends standards for traffic routes and for other roads, widely used by lighting authorities as a guide. In London and one or two other great conurbations, moreover, lighting authorities have formed consultative committees to co-ordinate their work. I have also in hand a survey of present lighting conditions on all trunk and Class I roads, which is almost complete, and this information will have to be studied before any further steps can usefully be considered.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he fully appreciates that here is a clear-cut method of substantially reducing the toll of road accidents? Will he, therefore, expedite these matters as much as he can?

I certainly will. I realise that the increase in accidents at night which has taken place is proportionately greater than the increase in accidents during the day. The difficulty is that

"a nationally satisfactory standard of street lighting".

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will give priority to completing the East Lancashire road at its Liverpool end, so as to facilitate the movement of traffic to the docks.

This is for the local highway authority to consider in the first place. We will be pleased to consider any such scheme it may care to put to us.

While I thank the Parliamentary Secretary for that Answer, may I ask whether he agrees that the development referred to in the Question is one which will have relevance to the country's export position at a point close to a cardinally significant port? Will he indicate the Government's view that, bearing this in mind, together with the economic situation, this is a development which should be given priority?

The hon. and learned Gentleman will realise that I cannot comment on a proposal from a local highway authority until we have had a chance of seeing and investigating it.

asked the Minister of Transport how many miles of trunk roads were completed in Wales during each of the last three years; and what is his estimate of the trunk road building which will take place during each of the next three years.

The mileage of trunk roads Li Wales and Monmouthshire which was either built anew or completely rebuilt in each of the last three years is: 1958–59, 17·3 miles; 1959–60, 22·5 miles; 1960–61, 25·3 miles.

Does my right hon. Friend feel that these figures are rather small in view of the tremendous industrial growth in large parts of the Principality during the last few years? Will he consider whether they could be increased considerably?

Oh, no. I think it is wrong to take the Welsh roads in isolation, because Wales profits greatly from road schemes outside Wales. Schemes such as the Severn Bridge, the Bristol-Birmingham motorway and the Ross Spur, for example, help considerably.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he has completed his consultations about the application of a speed limit for motor vehicles to Marton Road, Middlesbrough; and when the limit will come into force.

My right hon. Friend confirmed the Middlesbrough County Borough Council's speed limit Order on 30th December. It will become effective when the council has put up the necessary speed limit signs.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that it was on 21st January last year that the need for this restriction was first put before his noble colleague the other Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry? Why should it have taken all this long time to complete these deliberations? Now that at last the speed limit is being put on the road, will he see that the speed limit is taken off the bureaucratic machine which takes such a long time to come to a decision?

The Council did not submit the Order for confirmation by the Minister until 21st November, 1960. Having heard all objections we confirmed the Order on 30th December, and it was returned to the council duly endorsed on 6th January.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that of course Middlesbrough Council could not put the application in until November, because it had been given no indication of what was in the hon. Gentleman's mind until that time?

asked the Minister of Transport what progress is being made with the draft schemes for the Midland Link motorways.

A draft scheme was published last March for the motorway between Lydiate Ash, at the northern end of the Birmingham-Bristol motorway, which is now under construction, and the junction at Great Barr with the other sections of the Midland Link motorway. I am now considering objections to it. I have recently made the scheme for the motorway between Dunston and Castle Bromwich, and detailed preparatory work on it is now proceeding Survey of the line of a motorway leading eastwards from Castle Bromwich to connect with the M.1 at Catthorpe has been completed and I hope to publish a draft scheme by the end of this year.

In considering the system of roadways in the Midlands, will my right hon. Friend look at the problem of the A.38 and the main road from Birmingham to Burton-on-Trent? Can he tell me whether he has yet decided what route the proposed A.38 by-pass from Burton-on-Trent will take, and if so, can he give the programme date for commencing the operations?

if my hon. Friend is referring to the Burton-on-Trent by-pass, my answer is that I hope to publish the draft Order before Easter.

I thank my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will now state when work will be started on the Severn Bridge project; and if he will make a statement.

Tenders for construction of the foundations and sub-structure of the Severn Bridge and an access road to the site are under consideration. We expect to let the contract for this work shortly.

In view of the tremendous amount of patience shown by the people of South Wales—and people in England, too—may we be told what precisely "shortly" means? Has the Minister any idea of the completion date of this scheme?

The invitations to tender were issued on 28th September, 1960, and after a request by several potential tenderers we were obliged to extend the tender period to 10th January, which was, after all, only a few days ago. We are now on the point of deciding.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will reconsider his decision and allow the conversion of the Newcastle to Tynemouth coast road into a dual carriageway to be included in the 1961–62 programme.

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware that the Northumberland county authorities wish to go ahead at once with the planning of the coast road from Newcastle to Walls-end and Tynemouth; if, in order to enable the authorities to do this, he will make a decision regarding the width for the dual carriageway to allow for the two roads, a central reservation and two footpaths as speedily as possible; and when a decision may be expected.

We are aware of the importance of this project, which is one of those proposed by the committee of local authorities in the Tyneside conurbation for starting in 1961–62. We hope shortly to be able to let the local authorities know what programme we can accept for next year, and also our views on the proposed dimensions of this road which are at present being examined by our engineers.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this road is the most accident-prone traffic artery in the whole of the country? Will he, therefore, in the interests of road safety, please use a sense of urgency in his Department and reconsider this whole matter so that the local authorities can get on with the work at the earliest possible opportunity?

My hon. Friend's supplementary question might have been appropriate if I had said that we were not going to do this scheme. I said in my original Answer that we are hoping to let them know in a very short time. I hope they will have patience for a few more days.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that one of the difficulties we have in attracting new industries to the North-East is the inadequacy of our communications generally, and that this coast road from Newcastle is one of the major factors? It would be a tremendous help to those of us who are trying to attract new industries to the area if he would co-operate over the dual carriageway.

It is precisely because we do appreciate the importance of road communications in this area that we have now received a 20-year programme from the Conurbation Sub-Committee so that we may know exactly where we may be able to go over the next few years.

asked the Minister of Transport when he received a request from highway authorities in the South-West for an interview about the inadequacy of trunk and classified roads there and the need for additional grants for road improvement works.

My hon. Friend the Member for Taunton (Mr. du Cann) wrote to me about this on 20th December. I have replied that my hon. Friend or I will be glad to receive a deputation.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the needs of Cornwall are very great?

Yes, Sir. I will bear that in mind.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is prepared to provide a pedestrian crossing in Evesham Road, Redditch, opposite The Woodlands.

For the reasons explained to my hon. Friend in my letter of the 27th January I am afraid we cannot agree to provide a pedestrian crossing here.

I thank my hon. Friend—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—yes, indeed I do—for his very good and expansive letter. But, in view of the anxiety in the minds of some of these old people and in view of the fact that he said that he would look at the matter again, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he would consider providing something on the lines of a pedestrian-operated crossing?

I have looked into this matter very carefully. In these cases where old people are concerned the risk always is that a pedestrian crossing is rather liable to be a snare and a trap than a good safety measure. I cannot hold out any hopes of doing anything for my hon. Friend in that direction.

Not even with operated lights?

There are certain complications that arise even with those.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware of the long delay that has taken place in the erection of traffic signals at the junction of Oval Road North and Ballards Road, Dagenham; and whether he will authorise their speedy construction.

The highway authority submitted an installation plan to us on Monday of this week. It will shortly be approved for grant.

asked the Minister of Transport what regulations he is making concerning strip reflectors, or other contrivances, designed to make the rear of lorries more visible at night.

We are not proposing any regulations of the kind referred to by my hon. Friend. We are satisfied that the two rear lights and two reflectors required by the Road Transport Lighting Act, 1957, are adequate, provided, of course, that they are properly maintained.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that the recent experiment carried out by the Road Research Laboratory at Middlesbrough requiring drivers to give way to vehicles approaching from the right is regarded as highly successful; and if he will take steps to make this generally applicable.

This was a limited experiment on a small roundabout. We are advised that further trials will be necessary before conclusions can be drawn which are sufficiently reliable for general application.

In view of the fact that there were some highly successful results, particularly in the limitation of time needed by traffic, does not the Minister think that it would be useful to introduce this arrangement, at any rate for the time being, to see how it works in various areas?

I have personally a good deal of sympathy with the point which the hon. Member puts, but the results of this experiment did not bear out what he has just said. In fact, the journey-time for the afternoon peak traffic was increased rather than reduced. I am afraid that we cannot see our way clear to make this general application until we have done more experiments.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that dislocations of traffic have occurred in Leicester owing to the use of transporters for the purpose of carrying excessive loads through the town; and what steps he proposes to take by introducing regulations to prevent similar incidents in Leicester and elsewhere in the future.

Yes, Sir. I am aware of the difficulty recently caused in Leicester by the movement of a series of very long steel girders through the town. Efforts are now being made to find an alternative route for the remainder of these loads. We are hoping to introduce shortly new regulations which will give us power to control directly the movement of such very long loads.

While I thank the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether in the circumstances he will also consider some kind of co-ordination between road and rail services in respect of heavy loads? Does he also realise that he must get on with the main motor road speedily, because that in itself will ultimately solve many of the problems with which we are confronted in Leicester?

I suspected that the hon. Member would wish to raise the question of the London-Yorkshire Motorway in view of the numerous passages which he and I have had on the subject. We are well aware of this problem, and that is why the regulations are being reconsidered.

Is the hon. Member aware that this problem of excessive loads on British roads is not confined to Leicester but is becoming a national scandal? What happened to the Inter-Departmental Committee, which is supposed to have been sitting to consider this problem? The House has been fobbed off year after year with the statement that the Committee was not yet ready to make its report. Has the Committee reached any conclusion about dealing with moving this excessive traffic back to the railways of Britain, where it belongs, instead of on the roads, thus reducing these dangers?

It is only right to point out that an increasing number of these large loads are moved by road because it is either much more economical or more efficient than to send them in any other way. But their movement raises difficulties, and our regulations are intended to deal with the problem.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will amplify the statement regarding the main difficulties facing the London Transport Executive in respect of omnibus services, contained in the reply sent by his Department on 9th December, 1960, to a request by Acton Borough Council for a public inquiry into the operation of the London Transport omnibus services generally.

My Department's letter of 9th December referred specifically to one major difficulty, the shortage of bus crews. Others exist, such as rush hour peaks and traffic congestion and I am considering the general position in connection with the proposal, made in various quarters, for an inquiry into the operation of London Transport services.

While thanking the Minister for that helpful reply, which I know will be welcomed by the Acton Borough Council, may I ask him to expedite his consideration of the possibility of an inquiry and to give us an answer fairly soon?

The position has changed in recent months rather to the advantage of the travelling public. For example. the crew position is becoming very much better. There has been a net gain of 800 drivers and conductors since the wage rise in October, and the men have agreed to do more overtime. As a result, lost mileage has been halved and the outlook is much better than it was at the end of last year.

This initiative for a public inquiry was taken by the bus drivers themselves. They were anxious to convey to the British public, and the London public in particular, that, at any rate in the main, bus drivers and conductors were not responsible for the chaos which we have in London. Will the Minister concede that the time has come for a public inquiry?

I am considering not only representations from hon. Members but also representations from various local authorities, as well as those which the busmen made and which were presented to me by the hon. Member for Bermondsey (Mr. Mellish).

asked the Minister of Transport, in view of the number of accidents involving pedal cyclists, whether he will consider enforcing a minimum standard of intensity of light for both front and rear lights of pedal cycles, in the interests of both motorists and cyclists.

The efficiency of rear lights used by many cyclists leaves much to be desired, and we are considering an amendment of the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations, 1959, which would require all pedal cycles to carry rear lamps marked with the number of the appropriate British Standard. Such a requirement would be more valuable than a prescription of required intensity, which would raise enforcement difficulties. I do not think the same problem exists to any large extent with regard to front lights on pedal cycles.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that kind Answer, may I ask whether he would agree that, if he is altering the standard, it would be advisable to alter it for both front and rear lights? Does he not agree that one of the great dangers of this dynamo-type lighting is that the cyclist has no illumination whatever when halted at crossroads?

No. As I said in my Answer, we do not think that the same problem exists in the case of the front lamps. As everybody knows, there is much greater risk of accident if a cyclist is either on the road or stationary without an effective rear light. That is what we must concentrate on at this stage.

asked the Minister of Transport when he intends to publish the report and findings of Professor Jack's Committee on Rural Transport, in view of the need for early action to assist rural bus operators to maintain their services.

As soon as practicable.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that that limited and rather negative reply will be cold comfort to those living in the rural areas? Does he appreciate that the continuing failure of post-war Governments to deal with this problem is causing hardship and difficulty to those living in the rural areas? Does he realise that it is not in the national interest for the public transport facilities in those areas to deteriorate further, and will he please take effective steps at an early date?

I assure my hon. Friend that he need not be unduly impatient. The report will be published as soon as possible.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will take steps to enforce the use of yellow bulbs in the headlights of motor vehicles.

No, Sir. There is no evidence to suggest that yellow headlamps giving the same seeing distance as white headlamps offer any advantage.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that in France it is obligatory to have yellow headlights and that it is far easier to drive at night against an oncoming car with yellow headlamps than with white ones?

I expected a supplementary question about France, because I have travelled through France frequently. The answer is that the headlamp beams on French cars are generally of a lower intensity than those on British cars. That is the reason for the lack of dazzle. It is not the colour, but the lower intensity.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that the Road Research Laboratory investigated this matter some years ago and came to the conclusion that the French were wrong.

Yes. It was in 1957 when this was investigated and it was found that people in this country preferred white headlamps.

asked the Minister of Transport what reply he has made to the representations he has received from the Middlesex County Council urging him to appoint a committee of inquiry into London Transport.

My Department has told the Middlesex County Council that its representations are being considered. As the hon. Member no doubt knows, I already have under consideration a similar request from other quarters.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that such an inquiry would at least disclose where the responsibility lies as between London Transport Executive and his own Department? Would not he agree that it would also show the urgent necessity of getting on with the Victoria line and the fact that failure to do so is one of the causes of the present trouble?

The House must remember that there was a very exhaustive inquiry by the Chambers Committee into London Transport between 1953 and 1955. The Committee spent two-and-a-half years looking at it, and found that it was conducted efficiently and with due regard to economy.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will introduce legislation to extend the Road Traffic Acts to provide compulsory insurance for passengers on motor cycles.

This is one of the matters covered by the Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Loughborough (Mr. Cronin) which is to be debated on Second Reading on 10th February. I think we should await that debate.

Is it not correct that the Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Loughborough (Mr. Cronin) covers only motor cars? As it has become the practice of insurance companies, with the growth of this form of transport, to exclude liability for personal injury to passengers, is not this now a matter for urgent action, even if it involves higher insurance premiums?

I do not wish to anticipate the debate which is to take place in ten days' time, but I am advised that the Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Loughborough covers motor cars and motor cycles.

Is it not a fact that in the practice of insurance companies a passenger in a motor vehicle, injured in a collision involving two vehicles, is bound to recover damages against either the driver of his own vehicle or tile driver of the other vehicle? Is it not therefore rather superfluous to introduce legislation to meet something which is already covered in practice by insurance existing under present Statute law?

Perhaps that is a matter which the hon. Member should take up with his hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough.

asked the Minister of Transport to what extent it remains the policy of the British Transport Commission to recruit personnel in the West Indies.

As my predecessor informed my hon. Friend on 18th April, 1956, recruitment is a function of management, and is not a matter in which I would wish to interfere with the British Transport Commission's discretion. The Commission is short of manpower in certain grades and in certain localities. A large-scale recruiting drive in this country has not met with sufficient response, and the Commission is, therefore, making up the deficiency by recruitment elsewhere.

In view of the great increase in immigration from the West Indies during the past year, does not my right hon. Friend agree that this agency is now redundant and that suitable personnel could be recruited in this country through the various organisations concerned with the welfare and settlement of these immigrants? Will he make a recommendation to that effect?

No, Sir. The broad question of immigration is one for my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and not for me, but I am satisfied that the British Transport Commission has made every endeavour to recruit labour in order to keep its services in a satisfactory state for the travelling public.

Will the Minister take it from hon. Members on this side of the House that those who are employed by the London Transport Executive and who come from the West Indies are doing a fine job, are extremely courteous and are very well liked by the public, and that most Londoners are grateful that they are over here?

I think that they play a most useful part in maintaining essential services during a period of full employment.

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Minister of Transport, in view of the recent incident in which nineteen foxhounds were killed on the railway line near Dover on Saturday, 14th January, whether, in the interests of public safety, he will give a general direction to the British Transport Commission to safeguard effectively all their electric lines from access by persons and animals.

No, Sir. We do not consider that this is a matter which it would be proper to deal with by a general direction. I am advised that the Commission could not reasonably be expected to provide more secure fencing than existed at the site of this particular occurrence.

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will look at the matter another way. In view of other occurrences of this kind which have taken place and the potential danger to the travelling public arising there from, will he now instruct that prosecutions for trespassing should be instituted against masters of hounds?

I do not think that my right hon. Friend has any power to instruct that prosecutions should be instituted.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will give a general direction to the British Transport Commission to retain cheap early morning fares on all forms of public transport for which it is responsible where such fares exist at the present time; and if he will similarly instruct his traffic commissioners to refuse applications they have received to raise early morning fares on public service vehicles.

No, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that early morning cheap tickets for workers travelling over fairly long distances to their jobs are a facility which he could have used his influence to retain and that, because of economic circumstances, many of these people have been driven on to the roads, where many more accidents have happened as a result? Will not the right hon. Gentleman realise that it is his responsibility to do something about alleviating the distress on the roads and obviating accidents?

In my view, these fares can no longer be justified on either social or economic grounds. Outside London, there are cheap day return fares available at any time which are cheaper than early morning fares, and I do not consider that the abolition of early morning fares will cause any great hardship.

asked the Minister of Transport if the proposed new railway boards will have power to produce their own motive power units or rolling stock.

asked the Minister of Transport if the proposed railway boards will have authority to produce their own rolling stock and motive power units and equipment.

Paragraph 14 of the White Paper states that the Railway Workshops will be vested in the British Railways Board. I contemplate that the forthcoming legislation will give this Board the statutory power which the hon. Members have in mind.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware how much pleasure it will give to the railway industry to have this assurance that it will be left entirely to the proposed Railways Board to produce at long last its own motive power units? Is he aware that this will be a very good move indeed, particularly in view of the difficulties the British Transport Commission is having with inferior motive power units which have been supplied by outside industry?

Without endorsing the last part of that supplementary question, I am glad that the hon. Gentleman finds this paragraph of the White Paper satisfactory—as, indeed, most of the other paragraphs are. [HON MEMBERS: "Oh."] I hope that the hon. Gentleman will take the copy of the White Paper that he has torn up and stick it together again now.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is pleasant for us to see that he is becoming a little less doctrinaire? Would he not agree that it is very necessary, in view of the inability of private contractors to supply reliable equipment, that the railways should have power to produce their own so that they will not have to carry the can of the abuse which they are getting at the present time and which should be placed on other shoulders?

I myself would prefer not to discuss these failures while they are the subject of inquiry by the Chief Inspecting Officer of Railways. Any Member in any part of the House who makes allegations of that nature is not being very helpful at this moment.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the builders of these power units have an extensive export trade to all parts of the world, and that if the railway workshops are to have a monopoly of building power units for the British railway system it will negative any possibility of extending our world-wide export trade in this very important equipment?

I am quite certain that the export field should always be borne in mind in this respect.

Hear, hear.

Is the House to take it that the Minister has just given a pledge that the existing railway workshops are to be kept in being under the new Board?

The answer is quite clear. The White Paper says that the railway workshops will be vested in the British Railways Board and the responsibility lies with the central Railways Board, so that the Board must decide how the workshops will be used.

asked the Minister of Transport whether his consultations with the British Transport Commission about the pensions of railway superannuitants have been concluded and whether he will make a statement.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the statement I made during the course of the debate on 30th January.

May I ask my right hon. Friend whether, when the statement on the scheme for increasing superannuitants' pensions is made, he will make it perfectly plain whether it is the original scheme as put forward by the British Transport Commission or whether it is that scheme whittled down by negotiations with his Department, so that we may know who really is taking responsibility for meeting the claims of these people?

I will arrange to produce full details, to be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

That is not the answer. Can my right hon. Friend give me an assurance on which is which?

Answer.

Question No. 54.

Answer.

Order. So much noise interferes with business. I called Question No. 54.

asked the Minister of Transport whether the station of Stoke-on-Trent has been included in the capital sum allocated for the improvement and extension of railway stations.

The Commission has put to me no proposals for major works at Stoke-on-Trent Station. I understand, however, that it proposes to undertake certain minor works there in the course of the electrification work on the London-Midland main line.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware how very disappointing and unbusinesslike this is? Is he aware that it was originally proposed by the Commission to spend £1 million on this station because of the vast amount of traffic that goes through it and because it is quite inadequate to deal with the business of North Staffordshire? Will he do something himself and suggest that there should be a further allocation and a radical alteration by way of improvement?

No, Sir, because this is a matter for the Commission. If it were to put forward proposals to me, I should certainly consider them on their merits.