asked the Minister of Aviation whether he has examined the possibility of co-operating with the United States authorities in the provision of launching vehicles for a joint programme of space research either in addition, or as an alternative, to co-operating with European Governments.

Yes, Sir. The United States authorities have already generously made the Scout satellite launcher available, and I have no doubt that cooperation in the field of space research will be carried still further in the years to come.

Will the Minister tell the House how that interlocks with his programme of consultations with European Governments, and will he assure us that there is no conflict between cooperation with the European Governments and co-operation with the United States Government in this matter?

There is no conflict. As the right hon. Gentleman has a later Question which touches on this, perhaps he will await that reply.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether, in view of Herr Strauss's recent statements, he will reconsider the whole question of a space research programme anew without any attempt to make use of the work put into the Blue Streak project.

No, Sir. And I hope the right hon. Gentleman will not confuse the question of co-operation in pure space research with the separate but important question as to whether Europe should leave the manufacture of satellite launchers to America and Russia.

Surely these two Questions are inextricably interlocked. As we understand it, the Minister has attempted to undertake a scheme of joint research on the basis of completing the Blue Streak project. Is he not aware that many of us think that this has turned out to be an error and that it would be far better simply to have a project of joint space research and if people wish to use the Blue Streak project, that is for them? But I cannot help thinking that the Minister is putting off his possible collaborators by his present procedure.

Most Questions are connected to some other Question, but these happen to be different. One is whether we should co-operate in space research—everybody agrees that we should. The other is and I agree that it could be answered either way—whether it would be right for Europe to say that in the West a complete monopoly should be left with the United States in the manufacture of satellite launchers, no matter what they were used for, whether space research or commercial purposes. This is a matter which I will not debate now, but we have discussed it on other occasions.

asked the Minister of Aviation what is the present position in relation to the proposed closure of Southampton Airport in April, 1961.

The terms of sale to the Southampton Corporation have been agreed.

The fact that Southampton Airport is to be kept open will be a source of satisfaction to all concerned with the activities of the port and town of Southampton. Will my hon. Friend expedite agreement on a realistic price under the Crichel Down procedure for the remaining area of land within the perimeter of the airfield? Secondly, in order to keep the airport operational, will he ensure that the Ministry's technical staff are not withdrawn from the airport until the new operators have a reasonable opportunity of replacing them?

The remainder of the land, which constitutes the northern extension of the airport, has been offered back to the former owners on terms which are both realistic and reasonable. We have announced withdrawal of the technical services on 9th April, but, of course, a short extension can be arranged, if this is necessary to avoid a gap in operations.

Will the hon. Gentleman continue to do all he can in using his good offices to support both the corporation and the prospective buyer of the airport to keep it in use as an airport?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will give an assurance that the prohibition imposed on British European Airways to operate aircraft to Leipzig during the Fair will be lifted before the next fair in order that that airline may be able to share in the passenger traffic available now to its competitors.

There is no such prohibition so far as Her Majesty's Government are concerned.

Is not my right hon. Friend aware that it has been stated, I think by B.E.A. itself, that no services were operated because the West German Government did not wish them to operate? If this is not true, which I should be very glad indeed to hear, because it would seem more than stupid, will my right hon. Friend take steps to assure everyone in Europe and our exporters in this country that British Airways can operate to Leipzig during the Fair if it so desires?

The Government certainly have not prohibited British European Airways from flying anywhere. If there is some question of inter-Governmental agreement, this would be a matter for the Foreign Office. I would remind my hon. Friend that similar problems which have arisen in trade were surmounted by us, as by the West German Government, by carrying on without inter-Governmental agreement.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will provide separate Customs-free accommodation at Prestwick Airport for incoming transatlantic passengers intending to proceed to London.

Customs facilities already exist at Prestwick. It is for the airline concerned to decide whether to present passengers for clearance there or at London.

The Minister has not grasped the point of the Question. Perhaps that is my responsibility. Is he aware that after one of these long-distance aircraft has flown the Atlantic and has touched down at Prestwick for about 40 to 50 minutes passengers are kept on board? Is it not possible to give passengers the opportunity of a little release so that they may stretch their limbs before proceeding to London?

Arrangements are sometimes made for passengers to stretch their limbs a little, but Customs inspection as such would delay the aircraft, whatever the facilities.

The point of the Question is that there should be arrangements which would obviate the need for Customs inspection at Prestwick for those who are proceeding to London.

Let them land at Manchester.

Customs inspection normally takes place in London with the large jet aircraft. This is a matter in which the airlines concerned attempt to determine what is the best procedure for themselves and for their passengers.

asked the Minister of Aviation what progress is being made in providing improved facilities for transit between Prestwick Airport and Glasgow.

If the hon. Member will let me know what type of facilities he has in mind I will look into the matter.

Is the hon. Gentleman keeping in close touch with the Secretary of State for Scotland in this matter of transit facilities? Does he realise that the first stretch of the new road passing east of the airport was opened on Saturday, four months ahead of schedule? Will he ensure that that applies to the rest of the road through Ayr and on to the south? If he does not, we shall still be faced with the congestion of traffic at the airport that we have faced during the last four or five years.

Of course, my right hon. Friend is in close touch with the Secretary of State for Scotland, and we will bring the specific point which the hon. Gentleman has just raised to my right hon. Friend's attention.

asked the Minister of Health how many patients were treated for venereal diseases in each of the last four years.

I regret that this information is not available.

Is it not well known that in 1959 the figure of freshly notified cases was in excess of 116,000? Has it not also been recently stated publicly by a large journal that the greatest increase of notifiable cases of venereal disease was in the 18 to 19 year-old age group.

The hon. Gentleman appears to be referring to new cases. His Question referred to cases treated.

asked the Minister of Health if he will consider the reintroduction of legislation, similar to Defence Regulation 33B.

No, Sir.

Does it not appear that the Minister is treating this matter with a degree of casualness which is surprising? Is it not quite obvious to everybody that there is a rapid increase in the number of new cases of venereal disease and that this represents a major problem? Does not he think that his Department should do more than stick coy posters in public lavatories?

It is quite true that the increase in the new cases of gonorrhoea gives cause for anxiety, but I cannot believe that the compulsory notification, examination and treatment of venereal diseases would help.

Is it not a fact that the 1959 figure of new notified cases of venereal disease was higher than that which existed when this Defence Regulation was introduced? Is it not also a fact that the only objections ever made to Defence Regulation 33B were on grounds of personal liberty? Does the right hon. Gentleman think that to defend the liberty of people it is necessary to infect young people with syphilis?

I do not believe that the spread of habits and knowledge which might contribute to an improvement in this matter would be in any way helped—rather the contrary would be the case—by the introduction of compulsory procedures.

asked the Minister of Health if he will state the number of male physiotherapists in training for the last available year and for 1953, together with the wastage for these years.

I regret that the figures are not available for men separately.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied that the recruitment of male physiotherapists is in a state which does not cause her anxiety? Is it not a fact that there seems to be a constantly decreasing number of people who avail themselves of these facilities?

I cannot answer a question about the recruitment of male physiotherapists because men and women are recruited together and we do not keep separate figures. But overall the recruitment figure has improved over the last three years. Although there is still a shortage, the number of people in training should help to remedy it.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the dangers to young children of transparent plastic bags; and what action he proposes to take to publicise these dangers, whether by way of circular to local authorities and other bodies or by other appropriate means.

Yes, Sir. The Ministry and the local health authorities are taking every opportunity to bring these dangers to the notice of those in charge of young children.

I am sure that the news is good news. While thanking my hon. Friend for her reply, may I ask her whether she is aware that when a small child puts one of these bags over his or her head and breathes in the sides are drawn against the face and immediately a vacuum is formed which makes it difficult for the child to get it off? Is she aware that the British Medical Association has warned that these transparent plastic bags are as potentially dangerous as the drugs which many people keep locked away in cupboards? In view of all this, will she get her Ministry to expedite the issue of this information so that parents can be warned about these bags?

I am aware of the dangers. By means of health education we try to bring them home to parents, and in that we have the help of the Press, the B.B.C. and particularly the women's journals.

asked the Minister of Health why he sent a circular to the medical officers of health of local authorities, limiting the supply to expectant mothers and infants of orange juice to two bottles a week, of cod liver oil to one bottle a fortnight, and of vitamin tablets to two packets a month.

I have sent no circular to this effect. I am, however, sending the hon. Member a copy of the circular which he may have in mind.

Is the Minister aware that I obtained the information from one of those who said that he was the recipient of this circular? Does he deny that the effect of the circular is on the lines of my Question? Does it not mean that, in addition to the hardship which will be caused by the right hon. Gentleman's new Bill, mothers and others who are entitled to these services will be denied them because they have not fully used the rights which they had before the introduction of the Bill?

Oh, no. There is no question at all of people not getting their entitlement.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the circular which he has sent out has put into operation the effect of the Question? People are now being limited in the amount of the commodities which they can get.

No. They will be able to get their full entitlement. Perhaps the hon. Member for Eton and Slough (Mr. Brockway) would like to look at the circular. I will gladly send a copy to the hon. Lady the Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Mrs. Slater).

Is it not a fact that before the Minister's action a pregnant mother could have a full nine months' supply and draw it at once? Is it not now a fact that she can draw her supply only up to 1st June, possibly a fortnight at a time? Quite apart from the parsimony of this action, is it not improper that the Minister of Health and the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance should have anticipated legislation in that these circulars were sent out before the relative regulations were laid before the House?

No. There is no question of people not getting their entitlement.

asked the Minister of Health what recent instructions he has given to local health authorities concerning the issue of welfare food coupons to expectant mothers; and what consultations he has had on this matter with the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance.

Welfare food coupons are issued on behalf of my Department through the local offices of the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance and not by the local health authorities.

Despite what the right hon. Gentleman said in reply to an earlier Question, does he not appreciate that the instructions which he has issued have had the effect of denying to expectant mothers the right, which they have hitherto enjoyed, of drawing upon their allotment of vitamin foods in any quantity at any time they liked and that the whole purpose of these instructions was to anticipate an Order which was not made until a month late? Does the Minister believe that the negligible saving which he has thus effected was really worth while for this cumbersome administrative machinery? Does he not consider it an incredibly mean thing to do?

Certainly not. There is no question of anyone not getting her entitlement in full. If this House should decide to make a humble Prayer to Her Majesty against the requisite Order, nobody will have lost anything.

Why is the Minister being so evasive about this? Will he not make it clear to the House that there has been a change and one which is detrimental to expectant mothers in that they are not now able to get what they were able to get before? We can debate this further when we come to pray against the Order, but will not the Minister make that admission now?

On the contrary, it would have been quite wrong, if the terms of supply are to be changed from 1st June, for them not to be different for everyone from 1st June.

Is not this attempt to economise on prenatal health foods crazy? Is not the Minister aware that any farmer who treated his cows like this would soon be out of business?

This has nothing to do with economising.

Why do it if it is not to economise?

asked the Minister of Health his estimate of the cost that would fall on the National Health Service by providing free medical, dental and optical treatment for children up to the age of 16 years.

I have no means of estimating the cost of exempting children's prescriptions from the charge. Apart from this, free treatment is already available.

Does the Minister realise that he and his colleagues in the Government carry a heavy responsibility for the health of the nation? Has he read the article in today's The Times entitled "High Rejection Rate of Army Recruits "? Does he not agree that the proposal contained in my Question would improve the health of the rising generation?

The answer to the first two of the hon. Member's questions is in the affirmative. As regards the third, I have no reason to think that proper treatment of children in the medical service will be in any way interfered with.

asked the Minister of Health his estimate of the cost that would fall on the National Health Service by providing free medical, dental and optical treatment and free vitamin and other welfare foods for expectant and nursing mothers in England and Wales.

I have no means of estimating the cost of exemption from charges for prescriptions or spectacles. The estimated cost of supplying vitamin supplements free would be about £½ million a year.

Whatever the total sum may be, does not the Minister agree that the investment of this money to provide full and free medical care for mothers and the newborn would do much to promote robust health in the people of tomorrow?

Full and free medical care are available at the moment.

No.

asked the Minister of Health what steps are taken by his Department to promote and encourage schemes whereby the dentists in any given area shall arrange between themselves that one of their number shall be available within the area, on rota, to give emergency dental treatment at week-ends and bank holidays.

Experience indicates that the demand would not justify my Department seeking to arrange formal schemes for this purpose.

If I send the Minister details of a case which recently came to my notice, in which a young man sought to obtain emergency dental treatment for his wife on a Saturday afternoon and succeeded only after hours of inquiry and seventeen abortive telephone calls in finding a dentist available to give the service and then had to take his wife by hired car a journey of six miles, will he look into the matter again and consider the suggestion contained in my Question?

I will certainly look at it, but I know that where arrangements for this purpose have been made they have had to be discontinued owing to lack of demand.

asked the Minister of Health how many notifiable cases of leprosy have occurred in the United Kingdom in the last five years.

One hundred and ninety-four in Great Britain. In all cases the disease was contracted abroad.

Can my hon. Friend say whether the increase in leprosy in this country is due to increased immigration from tropical countries? Can she further say how many leper colonies exist in this country?

In reply to the first part of that question, there is no evidence of a direct connection between the increase in leprosy, which is small, and the number of immigrants. We do not know the country of origin or bithplace of patients because that is not required to be stated under the regulations. I am sorry that I cannot answer the second part of the question without notice.

asked the Minister of Health what was the number of people suffering from leprosy in the United Kingdom at 31st December, 1960, as compared with 31st December, 1959.

248 in Great Britain, compared with 212.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in 1951 there were only 46 cases of leprosy in this country? Is she not alarmed at the progressive increase from year to year? Does she consider that some restriction should be placed on the entry of such people into this country?

No, that would not be for my Department in any event, but the cases of leprosy are really few, and I am advised that they do not constitute a risk to public health. Moreover, there is adequate provision in this country for treatment.

asked the Minister of Health whether his attention has been drawn to the case of a Reading dentist, details of which have been sent to him, who refused to treat an acute case because the person was coloured; and whether he will introduce regulations making this kind of discrimination illegal.

asked the Minister of Health if his attention has been drawn to the case of a dentist in Reading who refused to treat a patient on grounds of colour; and what action he proposes to take to prevent a recurrence of this.

I am informed that the dentist concerned authorised no such refusal and that this patient was treated.

Is the Minister perfectly satisfied that all the stories about colour discrimination in this case were unfounded and that the newspaper was at fault in publishing them in the first place? If there is any shadow of doubt at all, will he give his own firm condemnation of such discrimination so that newspapers which publish such stories abroad will realise that very few of us support this kind of thing?

I am sure that that attitude is held in all parts of the House, and I can assure the hon. Member that I am satisfied that, as I said, this dentist authorised no such refusal.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Mr. Chapman) did not do me the courtesy to inform me that this Question about my constituency was being put on the Order Paper? Does he realise that in this case there was a complete misunderstanding, that the patient who came for treatment did not notify this dentist that an appointment had been made for him, and that the dentist rightly suggested that the person would have to come for treatment because he already had an appointment? Does my right hon. Friend realise that the dentists of Reading do a superlative job for dental health?

I am satisfied that there is no question of this dentist refusing treatment on the ground of colour or any other, and that the treatment was given.

asked the Minister of Health, if, in view of his correspondence with the hon. Member for Salford, East regarding a Salford woman who had been detained for twelve years in Calderstones Hospital, he will set up an inquiry into other cases there to end possible wrongful detentions.

The cases of all patients detained since before 1st November last will have been reviewed by the end of next month.

Is it not extremely odd that this young woman, who had never been certified and whose family had constantly sought to free her, should have been released within a few days of the application of a Member of Parliament? Will the Minister receive a dossier from my hon. Friends the Members for Manchester, Exchange (Mr. W. Griffiths) and Ardwick (Mr. L. M. Lever) and myself of a number of such releases obtained recently of people who had been in Calderstones for between twelve and thirty-three years? While I do not in any way wish to blame the medical superintendent, who had been there only a few weeks, does not all this suggest that there are many other people wrongly detained at Calderstones? Therefore, would the Minister consider a special inquiry particularly into the 738 cases who have been there for more than ten years?

I have already told the hon. Member that their cases will be, if they have not already been, reviewed before the end of next month. There is nothing odd about this in view of the fact that this inquiry is required under the Mental Health Act. I will gladly look at any evidence which the hon. Member, or any other hon. Member, likes to put before me. There is, however, no evidence whatever that the detention of this patient, who was detained under compulsory powers, was wrongful.

asked the Minister of Health what investigations he has made into the case of Wilfred Boughton, who has been an inmate of Calderstones Hospital, Whalley, Lancashire, for the past 33 years, about which particulars have been sent to him by the hon. Member for Manchester, Ardwick; and if he will make a statement.

This patient is at present on six months' leave and, unless it proves necessary to recall him, the authority for his detention will lapse at the end of that time. I am writing to the hon. Member about the detailed points which he raised.

Will the right hon. Gentleman order an immediate inquiry as to what special medical treatment this man received during his detention, what work he did, what periods and dates he was unable to work and what wages he received for his work? We cannot understand why this man, who is rational and reasonable, should have been detained for 33 years and the information given only a few days ago following the special inquiry which I as Member of Parliament for the constituency made. Will the Minister give us a satisfactory reply?

I am not aware that this information was called for before. Certainly had it been called for, there is no reason why previously, any more than now, it should not be forthcoming. This person was detained under the Mental Deficiency Acts. I cannot find that there has been any impropriety at any stage, and, as I have said, the detailed information for which the hon. Member has asked is being made available to him.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that in some hospitals the conditions laid down for the employment of young nursing cadets have not been complied with; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. I have recently asked hospitals to ensure compliance with the conditions.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that the recent questionnaire, which showed that 770 hospitals were employing juvenile hospital cadets, revealed that in some of these hospitals juveniles were being asked to work longer hours than the recommended maxima for adults and that one-third of the hospitals were failing to comply with my right hon. Friend's recommendation that one day a week should be set aside for part-time education? Is he further aware that in some of the hospitals these children are being asked to work at night and are being asked to work in operating theatres and in general wards, all of which is prohibited by his regulations? How will my right hon. Friend enforce his regulations? Will he, for example, consider publishing the names of the hospitals which abuse the regulations?

Yes, I am aware of the circumstances to which my noble Friend referred, and, indeed, that is the reason for the issue of my circular. If I have any reason to think that it is not being fully and punctually complied with, I shall call for returns and I shall take individual action.

While not attempting in any way to condone the practices of which the right hon. Gentleman's noble Friend has complained, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman not to do anything to discourage the development of these very desirable nursing cadet schemes, which do not receive all the encouragement they might from the nursing profession?

One of the main ways in which they can be encouraged is to ensure that proper conditions for these cadets are observed.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the failure to install a lift at the County Hospital, Griffithstown, is endangering life; and what action is being taken to remedy this situation.

The contract for a lift will be let this week.

May I thank the Parliamentary Secretary—it is not very often that I can thank her so readily—for such prompt action?

asked the Minister of Health what is the average delay for barium X-rays or enemas for in-patients and out-patients, respectively, at the Royal Gwent Hospital, Newport; and what steps are being taken to end the delays.

All urgent cases are X-rayed immediately; other in-patients are X-rayed within a week; for non-urgent out-patients there has been hitherto a delay of four to eight weeks, but the recent appointment of an additional consultant radiologist should largely eliminate this.

Would not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that it would be very difficult, since these techniques are used for diagnosis, to anticipate whether out-patient cases were urgent or not? May I express the hope that these arrangements will prove effective, since they may be not only costly as far as beds are involved but quite clearly can be very relevant as far as out-patients are concerned?

The new arrangements have mentioned have already brought down the waiting list for out-patients at the Royal Gwent Hospital for barium meals from 271 in October to 38, and the number waiting for barium enemas has dropped from 63 to 48. We expect in a month's time that even this position will still further be improved.

asked the Minister of Health how many surgical beds were available in the Ashington hospital in the Wansbeck area of the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board at the most convenient date in 1961; and what plans exist for a development of this service.

Forty-two. The ward block now being built will provide 19 more for general surgery and 18 for orthopaedic surgery.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in 1948 for a population of 99,000 people there were 52 surgical beds in the hospital and that now today for a population of 150,000 there are 42? This is essentially a mining area where surgical beds are top priority. I appreciate the fact that the proposed extension is now on the plans. Will the Minister do all he can to expedite this as a very urgent need in this area?

Yes, the new surgical and orthopaedic beds form part of the four-storey block to be completed in March next year at a cost of £250,000.

asked the Minister of Health what progress is being made in the provision of a maternity unit for the Wansbeck hospital area of the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board; and whether he will make a statement.

The regional board has included a maternity unit in its plans for the next phase of development of Ashington Hospital.

Yes, but as I am informed that plan was included in the regional hospital board's submission in 1954. At the moment, taking the available facilities at the Mona Taylor Home and Beulah House, Blyth, over a period of 13 years, the additional facilities have been six beds. There is an urgent need again for some intensive development for this service in this area.

During Questions hon. Members should be careful to couch their supplementary Questions in interrogatory form.

asked the Minister of Health whether he sets down minimum standards for operating theatres which have to be complied with by hospitals under the National Health Service.

When designing theatres, hospital boards are expected to follow the recommendations in my Department's Building Bulletin No. 1. They have also received guidance on a number of aspects of the use of existing theatres.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him whether he realises that some of the older theatres in this country are operating in very strange conditions? Does he realise that in the theatre at the Royal Berkshire Hospital in Reading the sterilising of instruments and anaesthetising all has to be done in the same very small theatre? This is in fact the cornea grafting centre for the whole of Wessex. Does my right hon. Friend not consider that these conditions are about fifty years out of date?

Yes, that is the reason why the ophthalmic theatre suite is included in the first phase of the redevelopment of that hospital.

I thank my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he is taking to stimulate the recruitment of physiotherapists for the hospital services.

The number of students in training has increased substantially in recent years. From next autumn Ministry of Health bursaries will be available to new students.

Would the Minister not agree, despite this improvement in recruiting, that there is still a serious shortage of physiotherapists? Would he not agree that this is largely due to their salary levels which are low even by National Health Service standards? Is he aware, for example, that many qualified physiotherapists receive less pay than equivalent clerical officers without any qualifications at all?

I do not think that that can be the limiting factor, because it is the number of students under training which is the limiting factor. As my hon. Friend told the House a little before, the number of students in training has very rapidly increased, and at the moment most of the schools are full, and there is a shortage of trainers for additional students.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that what the hon. Gentleman the Member for St. Pancras, North (Mr. K. Robinson) says is to a large extent true? Is he aware that physiotherapists are not at all satisfied either with their salary scales or with the methods of negotiating increases in those scales?

I understand that there is a proposal for a salary increase before the relevant Whitley Council at the moment.

asked the Minister of Health what initial steps he proposes to take in furtherance of his recently announced policy on mental hospitals.

I shall shortly be sending to hospital authorities a memorandum about the planning of services for the mentally ill.

Is the Minister aware that the policy to get rid of out-of-date mental hospitals, which we welcome in principle, has nevertheless given rise to some fears and misgivings on the part of the existing staffs of those hospitals, and will he, therefore, give two assurances, first of all, that there will be plenty of work for all existing staffs to do whatever the setting in which mental patients are treated, as far ahead as one can see, and secondly, that Exchequer moneys will be freely available to develop psychiatric units in or attached to general hospitals?

I certainly recognise the importance of the psychiatric units in general hospitals and I shall expect those to feature in the long-term plans which are coming forward in the course of the year. Although the method and the place of mental treatment will, I hope, change rapidly over the years, I have no reason to suppose that there will be any diminution in the amount of effort which has to be devoted to it.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will make a statement on the progress of the discussions with the Governments of the United States of America, France, and Western Germany on the future of the coal and steel holdings of Herr Alfred Krupp.

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether he is aware that there is a growing anxiety about the decision to delay by a year the disposal of the bulk assets of the coal and steel holdings of Herr Alfred Krupp; whether he has considered a resolution passed unanimously at the recent annual conference of the Metropolitan Area of the British Legion condemning the decision, details of which have been sent to him; and what steps he proposes to take to expedite the implementation of the agreement in this respect made between Great Britain, the German Federal Government, the United States of America and France.

I am not yet in a position to make any statement on this subject.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that many of us are extremely dissatisfied with the lack of progress of the Mixed Committee on this matter, and will he convey to the other Governments concerned that the British Government are still serious about this and do not intend that the provisions of the Bonn Settlement Convention should be frustrated by these continual delays?

As the House knows, we are in touch with the other Governments about this subject. I think it is important to be clear about the purpose of the Mixed Committee, which is only that of deciding whether, because of the circumstances and the criteria laid down by the Settlement Convention, an extension for another year should be provided, as was recommended last time. It may be sitting again for this forthcoming year.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that he will indicate to our representatives on the Committee that there is a considerable amount of anxiety throughout the length and breadth of the country, that as recently as only a month ago the area committee of the metropolitan area of the British Legion at its annual conference, referred to in my Question, viewed this decision with dismay in a resolution carried unanimously by it, and is he aware that this is not merely a question of the sale but of dealing with the property which was utilised for the purpose of getting slave labour actively engaged in the interests of our enemies?

I recognise that these anxieties exist, but the members of this Committee act in an independent capacity and do not take instructions from their Governments.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will state the terms and conditions subject to which study tours for workers are arranged by the Cultural Division of the Council of Europe.

In January, 1961, the Committee of Cultural Experts of the Council of Europe decided to limit the choice of workers for workers' study tours abroad to those working in some cultural field. The decision was not unanimous, the British delegate voting with others against the proposal, and the Committee therefore agreed to review the decision at a full Committee meeting next May.

In view of the fact that trade unions had been previously invited to submit applicants for consideration on behalf of their workers and in view of the support which there is for this scheme, would the right hon. Gentleman press for a rather wider interpretation of the rules in future?

As I have explained, we were opposed to the particular course adopted. The reason that it was adopted was that there were more applicants than places available and, therefore, the Committee decided on this form of selection.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will appoint a panel of independent experts to advise him on disarmament problems.

No, Sir.

Is the Lord Privy Seal aware that many of us feel that the problems of disarmament are not given sufficient attention in this country? Will he consider taking advice from everyone who can give worth-while advice on the question of disarmament, particularly with the view to drawing up a detailed plan for disarmament which can go to the United Nations and to our next meeting with the Communist countries?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman and the House that the Foreign Office and other Departments of the Government give the utmost consideration to the disarmament question. We have been in contact with other bodies outside the Departments, and particularly with the Institute of Strategic Studies. We are always ready to take advice and suggestions on this subject from bodies outside.

If it is of advantage that the Prime Minister should recommend to the United Nations Assembly to set up a body of experts to prepare proposals, why is it not an advantage for Her Majesty's Government to do the same here?

I do not think that the two things are comparable. We have our own experts to deal with disarmament, but the whole point of the Prime Minister's suggestion was that it should be a multi-national gathering of experts which should reach agreement and make recommendations.

Is the Lord Privy Seal telling us that Her Majesty's Government have agreed to detailed proposals to put to the United Nations?

We have on a number of occasions put very concrete and detailed proposals to the United Nations. I said that we had experts on this subject to deal with these things.

Will the Lord Privy Seal assure the House that he does not rely entirely on admirals, generals and air marshals to advise him, because he might as well get the brewers to advise him on temperance?

asked the Lord Privy Seal what guarantee for the continued payment of pensions to retired British civil servants Her Majesty's Government obtained when the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan obtained self-government in 1955.

In November, 1954, the Governor General of the Sudan was authorised to assure his officials that Her Majesty's Government intended to ensure the security of their pensions by means of a formal agreement to be entered into between Her Majesty's Government and the Sudan Government. Unfortunately, despite repeated approaches by Her Majesty's Ambassador in Khartoum, the various Sudan Governments since independence have felt themselves unable to conclude such an agreement. On 22nd April, 1954, however, the first Sudan Government declared that it recognised and respected expatriates' rights to pensions and we are confident that this undertaking will continue to be honoured.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that not only are Sudanese civil servants' pensions below those of the United Kingdom under the 1959 Pensions (Increase) Act, but the pensioners are very worried about their basic pension, especially as the Sudan is dependent on one crop, and will he bear in mind that if anything should go wrong there might be a considerable time gap when the pensioners might get nothing at all?

I will note the point which my hon. Friend has made. I explained to him in an answer to a Question on 22nd February that, despite a number of representations, the Sudan Government had informed us in September that they were unable to make any further increase of these pensions.

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether the civil servants recruited in Great Britain to serve the Anglo-Egyptian Condominium of the Sudan were regarded as being in the service of the Crown.

These officials were not so regarded.

Is not this a very bad advertisement for those who wish to serve Her Majesty indirectly overseas? Was not the Condominium a shared responsibility under the Crown with Egypt?

As my hon. Friend will appreciate, this is to a certain extent a technical point, but on the best advice that we have been able to obtain the situation is as I have described it. The Governor-General held no commission from the British Crown and members of the Sudanese Civil Service were recruited by the Sudan Government. Relations between. Her Majesty's Government and the Sudan Government were effected through the Foreign Office and that is sufficient basis for saying that these officials were not regarded as being in the service of the Crown.

In view of the fact that we are in the process of handing over various Colonial Territories to self-government and that it is of tremendous importance that British civil servants should continue to serve, is it not of great importance in cases like this that it should be made quite clear that the British Government stand behind the civil servants and their pension rights? If the Government swindle people in this way, they will not get the service.

I entirely agree with the hon. and learned Member about the Colonial Service. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies has been paying great attention to this matter, as the House knows. The point about this Question is that these servants were not in the same position, for the reasons I have stated, but that does not alter the fact contained in my Answer that Her Majesty's Government have endeavoured to arrange with the new independent Government of the Sudan the best arrangement possible and have made representations on behalf of these civil servants about their pensions.

Will my right hon. Friend represent to the Sudan Government that we are exceedingly jubilant and happy about the excellent relations existing between our two countries since independence, but that that jubilation will be prejudiced if fair treatment is not given to that fine band of British servants of their country who did so much to make independence flow so well after the political decision was taken?

As I have already explained, we have made representations on several occasions to the Sudan Government, and when a suitable occasion occurs I will bear in mind what my hon. Friend has said.

asked the Lord Privy Seal what is the policy of Her Majesty's Government towards the recruitment in this country through the Belgian Embassy of a military force to be sent to the Katanga Province of the Congo.

I am satisfied that the Belgian Embassy in London has not been recruiting for the Katanga, and no representations have been made.

Was the Minister aware of this recruiting before it was reported in the Press? I think the right hon. Gentleman will admit that there was some admission about this by the Prime Minister last week, and if the Government knew about it why did they not stop it earlier? On the other hand, if they did not know about it, why not? Was M.I.5 asleep, or was it too busy chasing school teachers and students with Left-wing ideas?

As I said in my Answer that the Belgian Embassy has not been recruiting, so neither of the alternatives put forward by the hon. Gentleman apply.

Has the Lord Privy Seal not seen the reported account of the activities of the assistant military attaché, which has never been denied?

I have seen them and they have, indeed, been denied. If the right hon. Gentleman will read the account which I have here in the Daily Herald, he will see that it was an offer of service filled in by the gentleman concerned as a technical assistant for civilian employment.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will make a further statement on the progress which has been made in desequestrating property of British nationals by the Egyptian Government; how many British nationals have been allowed to take capital out of Egypt under the terms of the financial settlement; and when he expects to be able to finalise the claims for compensation.

According to our latest reports from Cairo, 4,875 applications had been submitted up to 28th February, 4,238 applications had been accepted, and 3,053 Release Agreements had been signed or were ready for signature.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether he is satisfied that the terms of the Agreement are being observed and that British nationals have been allowed to take out the £5,000 to which they are entitled? Can my right hon. Friend give some idea when all this matter will be cleared up? Is it not a fact that the Egyptian Government and the British Government would welcome a final settlement of these claims?

I am sure that we should all welcome a final settlement but the difficulties are well known. There have also been certain difficulties in the actual administration of this Agreement. These are under discussion in Cairo between members of the U.A.R. Administration and Sir George Rendel who has gone out from the Foreign Office for that purpose.

Is it not a fact that all kinds of difficulties are being put in the way of a settlement of these claims by the Egyptian Government and other authorities in Cairo? Is it not intolerable that the British Government should have been dealt with in this way?

The hon. Member is going too far in saying that difficulties have been put in the way but certainly in the operation of the Agreement there have been snags which we are trying to remove.

In the cases which have been dealt with, would my right hon. Friend say what the sum was in relation to the sum claimed and whether he is satisfied with the difference?

If my hon. Friend will put that question on the Order Paper I will try to answer it.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will make a further statement about recent negotiations with the Icelandic Government over fisheries limits.

The Icelandic Parliament on 10th March approved the proposals agreed between our two Governments for settling the dispute. The Exchange of Notes bringing the settlement into force accordingly took place in Reykjavik on 11th March. Copies of the Exchange of Notes embodying this settlement have been placed in the Library.

While welcoming the settlement of this rather long-standing dispute between two allies, may I ask whether my right hon. Friend can say anything about outstanding claims made by the Icelandic Government against British trawlers alleged to have been fishing inside the 12-mile limit during this period?

I am glad to say that the Icelandic Government have announced a waiver of past charges since April, 1960, when the last waiver was granted.

:Will the right hon. Gentleman observe that this agreement which appears to be for a 12-mile limit is in fact for a limit nearer 20 to 30 miles when the base lines are taken into account? What assurance have we that the Icelandic Government at the end of the three-year interim period will not put forward further claims extending, for example, to the complete Continental Shelf?

It is true that the limit is affected by the four base line changes which I announced when the agreement was proposed. As for the latter part of the hon. Member's supplementary question, he has a Question later on the Order Paper on that subject.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will consider giving instructions to the United Kingdom representa- tive at the United Nations to propose that plans be prepared for the creation of a United Nations force to which member States would be asked to make a contribution, including recruits enlisted by the United Nations, the costs of which would be met out of United Nations funds and the control exercised by that organisation.

Her Majesty's Government support the principle of a United Nations permanent force, while recognising the practical difficulties of administration and financing that such a force would create. This has been stated at the United Nations and also in the House on a number of occasions. But the establishment of such a force would require a wider measure of agreement than is at present forthcoming.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that this is a good idea? If it is, why does he not press it?

It is a good idea. We have pressed it, but we have not yet had full support for it.

Will my right hon. Friend also agree that a directly recruited international force would prevent contingents being withdrawn at the whim of national Governments?

Yes, Sir. That is one of the advantages.

In view of the fact that objections to this proposal have been made by some Commonwealth Governments, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman can say if an attempt is being made this week to reach agreement on a general Commonwealth approach at the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference?

As the hon. Member knows, discussions of the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference are always confidential.

In spite of the apparent difficulties, is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that these are not always insurmountable and could he not press the case?

Yes, when a suitable opportunity occurs.

asked the Lord Privy Seal why the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs has been visiting Nepal.

My noble Friend was in attendance on Her Majesty The Queen.

Could the Lord Privy Seal tell us whether sufficient care was taken of the security precautions? Is he aware that the Foreign Secretary was attacked by a tigress and might have been eaten if he had not been protected by 326 elephants and 500 men? Does the right hon. Gentleman think that the Foreign Secretary is more dangerous here than in Nepal? Is it true that the Foreign Secretary has been awarded the "insignia of the She Rhinoceros"?

I should not like to discuss any of the figures mentioned in this case, and I think that in the last part of his supplementary question the hon. Member has missed the target as well.

asked the Lord Privy Seal why he did not inform the leader of the French delegation to the recent talks in London on European economic problems of his new proposals for British association with the Common Market.

My statement to the Western European Union Ministerial Meeting on 27th February did not contain anything on this subject which had not been said in the talks with German and Italian officials, and reported by German officials to the French officials. Information about my speech was given to the leader of the French delegation himself at the beginning of the talks with the French officials on the same day.

:In view of the absolutely decisive importance of the French Government's position on these issues, is it not really the greatest blunder that the French Government delegation were not acquainted with these proposals in time to have a serious discussion on them in London? Even if the right hon. Gentleman is not interested in keeping his right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade in full touch with the proposals, surely the French Government are in a most important position here.

The French Government are in a most important position and everything possible was done to keep them informed. As I have said, the leader of the French delegation was told and the French Government realised, as we both did, when the date was fixed for the visit of the French officials, that it was the same as that for the W.E.U. meeting.

Is it not time that the Government stopped shilly-shallying and came out with a statement that we desire to negotiate entry into Europe?

The Government have not in any way shilly-shallied. They are exploring the possibilities with other Governments of finding a basis of settlement. With a problem as complex and difficult as this, that is bound to take some time, but it is better that we should do it in this way than that we should risk failure in negotiations by starting without preparation.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that one of the difficulties that private Members of the House, particularly on the Government benches, have on this complex topic is that we have no knowledge of the attitude of Commonwealth Governments to the latest British suggestions for association with the Common Market? Will my right hon. Friend cease to regard that aspect of matters as entirely confidential and publish statements from time to time about the prevailing attitude of Commonwealth countries in this matter?

It is for the Commonwealth Governments themselves to express their views about any proposals which might be made. From time to time some Commonwealth Ministers have done so. Recently two have expressed their views in their own countries.