asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science how much official research is being done into infant deafness; and to what extent this is carried out under the National Health Service.

The Medical Research Council has for about twenty years supported a programme of research on the cause, detection and treatment of deafness in infants. Part of this research is undertaken in National Health Service hospitals. In addition, research is carried out under the National Health Service at the Royal Berkshire Hospital, Reading and the Royal National Throat, Nose and Ear Hospital, Gray's Inn Road, with substantial support from public funds.

Does my hon. Friend realise what real pleasure it gives me, having known him for sixteen years, to be the person to congratulate him on his first appearance on the Government Front Bench at Question Time, and, in fact, at the Dispatch Box? I am certain that hon. Members on both sides of the House will welcome his appointment to the Government. [An HON. MEMBER: "His P.P.S."] We would give him support, but no doubt hon. Members opposite will give him something else. May I attack by asking my hon. Friend whether he realises that there is a sum of about £28,000 given by Nuffield to this research unit at Reading and that this money may not be able to be used unless sufficient housing facilities—actual floor space—can be found for this unit? Surely it would be a shame that this money should be wasted?

It is a great pleasure to be asked my first Question by my hon. Friend, and I am grateful to him for his kind words. I have to tell him, however, that the matter he raises is one entirely within the competence of my right hon. Friend the Minister for Health.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what action Her Majesty's Government propose to take on the proposal made by the Study Group of scientists of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation for an international institute of science and technology.

Her Majesty's Government are awaiting the report of a small working group of eminent scientists, including a British representative, which has been set up by the North Atlantic Council to give this proposal the further consideration which the Study Group recommended.

While welcoming the hon. Gentleman's appointment, may I ask him whether he would not agree that, while we must do nothing to stop the process of catching up in our backwardness in technological education, to which the Minister of Education recently referred, there is a case for a European institute of technology and science for the more advanced types of scientific research and teaching?

I am grateful also to the hon. Member for his kind words. I think it is important to remember that the Report of the Armand Committee set up by the N.A.T.O. Council stated that:

"the establishment of an International Institute of Science and Technology merits further study by an appropriately chosen group."

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science whether he is satisfied that the volume and quality of research in engineering is adequate to support the country's economy.

No, Sir. Some branches of engineering would benefit from more research. At the same time, there has been an encouraging increase in both teaching and research in engineering in the universities and the technical colleges. The problem will not, however, be solved until the subject attracts a due proportion of the best intellects in the country.

Does my hon. Friend agree that industry should pay far more attention to the latest report and accounts of the National Research Development Corporation, in particular paragraph 6, which says that industry compares unfavourably with private inventors? Will my hon. Friend see whether he can bring to the attention of industry the reports of both the National Development Corporation and the Advisory Committee on Scientific Policy?

Certainly. We do our best to bring both these documents to the attention of industrialists. However, I think that the weakness of the whole problem is basically the lack of the tradition of research in engineering in many of our universities and also the undoubted prejudices against technological education among parents and schoolmasters. If we can overcome these, we might, I think, make greater progress.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary accept from the Opposition our congratulations on his attaining this very important position? We wish him well in his office, although naturally we shall attack him where we think his Department is failing. I ask him not to be complacent about this, because there is no doubt that we are losing the battle in relation to the United States and the Soviet Union. We need many more engineers, and research facilities are important.

I must also express thanks to the hon. Gentleman. Whilst we must not be complacent—I do not think that my original answer showed complacency —we must remember that certain sections of British engineering, such as the electronics industry, have a very fine record in this respect. I fully accept the need for increasing the output of scientists and technologists from our schools, technical colleges and universities. We are doing our best to increase the output.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science how the level of civil scientific research in the United Kingdom compares with that in other countries.

A broad comparison can be made with the United States. This indicates that expenditure on civil research and development may be of the general order of 1¼ per cent. of the gross national product of both countries. Without appearing complacent, I think it is satisfactory that we do not appear to be behind in this respect. It is not feasible at present to make such a comparison with other countries.

Can something be done to ensure that if there is any reduction as a result of inter-dependence in the amounts spent on research and defence matters there will be an equivalent increase in the amount spent on civil research?

This is the sort of problem which I can assure my hon. Friend that my noble Friend has very much in mind.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what steps have been taken to secure the availability to research scientists of translations from foreign languages, especially Russian, of scientific literature.

The National Lending Library for Science and Technology is collecting and making available published translations into English of scientific literature. The Library has made special efforts to collect all the existing translations from Russian into English. In addition, the Library arranges for translations from Russian and co-operates to this end with similar institutions in the U.S.A.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the need for co-operation with Europe in this field? What arrangements exist in that respect with regard to the more difficult languages of scientists?

I am, indeed, appreciative of the need for this. The O.E.E.C. is in the process of setting up an independent organisation—the European Translation Centre—which will be attached to the University at Delft in Holland. This centre will be used to some extent by the National Lending Library and will translate into English, French and German from Eastern European languages, which I presume are the ones to which my hon. Friend referred.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what is the meaning of the phrase, graduates or equivalent, in Table III of the Report of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research on Research and Development Requirements of the Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering Industries.

The heading "graduates or equivalent" refers to the definition of "qualified" scientists and technologists used, by the Ministry of Labour and the Committee on Scientific Manpower of the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy, in the surveys of Scientific and Engineering Manpower carried out in 1956 and 1959.

Is the Parliamenary Secretary aware that this definition is completely misleading? The White Papers drawn up by the Ministry of Labour on Scientific and Engineering Manpower very carefully avoid this definition. In the shipbuilding industry the majority of qualified people are members of the Institute of Marine Engineers who obtained their qualification when they obtained a Board of Trade sea-going certificate, which has no resemblance whatsoever to a university graduate's qualification?

If it would make the matter clearer, I will arrange for a detailed note of the qualifications referred to by the hon. Member in his supplementary question to be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary agree, however, that the definition was carefully avoided in the White Papers on Scientific and Engineering Manpower?

In the shipbuilding industry the surveys did not cover technicians, with the exception of those holding Higher National Certificates and Higher National Diplomas, nor craftsmen, nor skilled operatives. In so far as it went, the definition was in itself restricted.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what arrangements are made by the Atomic Energy Authority, outside electrical energy, for research information, ripe for development, to be passed to British industry.

The Authority advises me that it brings such information to the notice of the appropriate sections of industry by every suitable means. New patents are widely publicised, development contracts are given to firms, and facilities are available for firms with interests in specific fields to obtain unpublished technological information under training or access agreements.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is some apprehension in this industry that certain secret information which is released to foreign Governments is being made available to foreign industry but is not available to our own industry? Will he look at this in the interests of the export trade?

Certainly. I have no knowledge of any such thing happening. Perhaps my hon. Friend will write to me and give me full details. I will then ask the Authority to look into it.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the Atomic Energy Authority is a remarkable example of public enterprise? [Interruption.] Certainly. It has given wonderful scientific information to private industry, as private industry itself acknowledges. After all, there should be a partnership in this matter.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the praise which he has given to the Atomic Energy Authority during a period of Conservative rule.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what are his proposals to improve the collation and dissemination of scientific information.

I would draw the attention of the hon. Member to the recent establishment of the National Lending Library of Science and Technology and to the statement made in another place by my noble Friend, on 31st May, 1960, about the Government decision to establish a National Reference Library of Science and Invention. The Department of Scientific and Industrial Research has recently established a Standing Committee on the Dissemination of Scientific and Technical Information. The Atomic Energy Authority also has a well-organised system of disseminating news of developments in atomic energy projects to interested parties, both in the United Kingdom and overseas.

The Parliamentary Secretary has mentioned the D.S.I.R. Is he aware that in the Advisory Council's Report on Scientific Policy this problem was stressed, but as yet we have not enough liaison officers? Will he bear in mind the type of organisation which has existed in the agricultural industry, namely, the National Advisory Service? In future he should think on similar lines.

I think the hon. Member has a Question down for a future date on liaison officers. Setting up something like the National Advisory Service would have to be a matter for my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, in the same way as the National Advisory Service is under the Ministry of Agriculture.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what progress has been made by the Common Cold Research Unit of the Medical Research Council.

The Common Cold Research Unit of the Medical Research Council has made an important advance in the study of the common cold with the successful isolation and growth of certain cold viruses. This has opened the way for rational investigations into methods of prevention and treatment.

Is my hon. Friend in a position to say in what way members of the public can help the work of the Unit? How many members of the public have so far volunteered?

Yes. The Common Cold Research Unit urgently requires volunteers in order to test the success of the new methods being developed. Very comfortable and centrally heated accommodation, their keep and a little pocket money are given to volunteers, of whom 6,784 had visited the Unit up to the end of 1960. Of these, 3,051 were men, 3,733 were women, and there were 799 married couples among them.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science whether he will make a statement on the proposal of the Atomic Energy Authority to establish a seismic instrument site in the Dartmoor National Park.

I am advised by the Atomic Energy Authority that it proposes to set up a small temporary listening post, for occasional use during the next twelve months, on War Office land near Okehampton in the Dartmoor National Park. It would provide information on the detection of explosions in support of the Geneva talks on the control of nuclear tests. Small charges of conventional explosives would be detonated elsewhere in the course of these experiments, but there would be no explosions on the site. Care will be taken to ensure that there is no interference with the amenities of the district.

First, was the Dartmoor National Park Committee consulted before this site was set up? Secondly, is it really necessary to have a site on Dartmoor, because there is plenty of granite elsewhere in Devon and Cornwall? Thirdly, will the Parliamentary Secretary ask the Atomic Energy Authority to reconsider the whole proposal and bear in mind that the national parks were not provided as playgrounds for Government Departments?

In answer to the first part of the supplementary question, no less than six bodies were consulted, namely, the Duchy of Cornwall as the landowners, the Dartmoor Commoners' Association, the Devon County Council, the National Parks Committee for Dartmoor, the Okehampton Rural Di strict Council, and the Dartmoor Preservation Association. Only the Dartmoor Preservation Association objected to this site being used for this purpose. The site was chosen because of the special geological formations and because it is away from main roads and railways, thus providing a suitable silent background for the work. The answer to the hon. Gentleman's third question is, "No, Sir".

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what research is being undertaken into bronchial asthma and bronchitis and their resulting effects on the health of children and adults.

The Medical Research Council supports a considerable amount of research into the cause, natural history and treatment of bronchial asthma and bronchitis. In addition, research into both of these conditions is being undertaken in the hospitals of the National Health Service.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise that there are about 30,000 deaths annually from all types of bronchitis; and that this death rate is three times as high as that in Belgium and thirty-six times as high as that in the United States of America? Therefore, we need a great general speed-up in research into this dreadful illness, particularly in constituencies like mine, where people are more susceptible to it.

I fully agree with the hon. Lady that this is a question for research, and, in fact, a considerable amount of research is being done, not only at Stoke-on-Trent but elsewhere in the country. This question involves such things as pneumoconiosis research. It also involves the policy of clean air and a number of analogous subjects. We are trying to press ahead with them all.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science if he will give details of the number of British scientists and technologists who have left the United Kingdom during the past five years.

There are no complete statistics of British scientists and technologists who have left the United Kingdom during the past five years. Such estimates as are available indicate that about 2,000 leave, and about 1,000 enter, the country every year.

Will the hon. Gentleman consult or ask his noble Friend to consult the Minister of Labour on this matter, as I am sure that the statistics can be given if the attempt is made? Even on the hon. Gentleman's own figure, is not this drift rather serious?

With regard to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I think that one can get fully accurate statistics only from passenger-movement statistics—by collecting a lot of detailed information from a very large number of travellers, which might lead to objections from other quarters. The net loss of 1,000 to which the hon. Gentleman refers relates to an annual output of about 18,000, and part of the net loss consists of Commonwealth students returning home after taking higher degrees.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science if he will now appoint a research council which will be responsible for the research into the conservation of natural resources.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer my right hon. Friend the Minister of Education gave the hon. Member for Lincoln (Mr. de Freitas) on Friday, 3rd February, 1961.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware of the concern expressed by the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy about the importance of the conservation of our natural resources, and is he not willing to reexamine the whole question in the interests of national prosperity and progress?

The Advisory Council is at present considering the matter, as my right hon. Friend the Minister of Education stated, and we must await its detailed recommendations before any actual steps can be taken.

But is not the hon. Gentleman aware that the Advisory Council in principle accepted the need for an organisation? It decided that in principle —why wait?

If the hon. Gentleman cares to read paragraphs 27, 36 and 37 of the Advisory Council's Report he will see that the Council suggested that the question of a natural resources research council was still one that needed a lot of further research, and that we are now doing.

Would my hon. Friend please convey to his right hon. Friend the very real concern there is on this matter on both sides of the House, and point out that the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy has referred to one important gap in responsibility which a research council of this kind would fill? Would he press on to see whether we cannot set up such a research council.

This, of course, raises a large number of very varied questions and very varied responsibility. I think that we should await the Advisory Council's further Report before we decide to set up a new body to coordinate all the existing work being done by a variety of Departments.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what proportion of Government-financed industrial research is at present being carried out in Scotland.

It is not practical in the industrial field to distinguish expenditure on research from that on development. The information requested by the hon. Member is therefore not available.

Could not the Parliamentary Secretary give some information on the two expenditures combined? That might be helpful.

That would entail a very large amount of work and would take some time, but if the hon. Gentleman cares to put such a Question on the Order Paper we will do our best.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what is the purpose of the survey of modern office blocks, instituted by the Central Office of Information on behalf of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research; what is the number of persons, directly or indirectly, engaged on this survey; and what will be its total cost.

The purpose is to analyse experience in the use of recent office buildings in order to improve design of future buildings. Thirty part-time interviewers will be employed for one month under a senior information officer, and some technical staff for analysis of the data. Estimated cost of this survey is £5,500.

Does my hon. Friend need this information? Does he not agree that investigations of this sort, even of a modest kind, should be reduced to those that are really essential?

I think that this is a survey that can do a lot of good in making people happier in offices and, therefore, more efficient. We believe that a great deal more information is still needed on, for example, such aspects as the inadequacies of heating, lighting, ventilation and noise reduction.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary not listen to his ractionary friends behind him, but realise that the use of social science research will be of great help to those constructing buildings, especially in view of the ignorance of most architects on this subject?

I have no doubt that the Question of my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Chelsea (Captain Litchfield) was born of a natural desire to conserve the nation's financial resources; I naturally support the desire of the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr. Albu) to have the maximum amount of information that we can get within the resources available.

asked the Minister of Works if he will give the figures of road accidents in the Royal Parks for the first four months after the speed limit was increased to 30 miles-per-hour, with separate figures for injured and killed, and comparable figures for the same period for three previous years.

For those parks where the sped limit was raised to 30 m.p.h. on 4th August, 1960, the following are the figures required of accidents, injured and killed.

• 1957–50 accidents, 62 injured and none killed.
• 1958–62 accidents, 74 injured and 2 killed.
• 1959–69 accidents, 70 injured and 2 killed.
• 1960–69 accidents, 87 injured and 2 killed.

Can the Minister, having studied the figures as a whole, say whether they show that the proportion of fatal accidents has increased since the speed limit was raised? Is he aware that there is increasing evidence that the new higher speed limit is being ignored, and that there have been convictions for driving in Richmond Park at speeds of up to 60 m.p.h.? What steps is the Minister taking to see that these new speed limits are rigorously enforced?

I am taking the steps I told the House I would take when these matters were debated, and that is why there are now more convictions. The answer to the hon. Member's Question is that there have not been any more killed since these Regulations came in.

asked the Minister of Works if he will state the proportion of the building industry's resources devoted to council-house building and office building, respectively, today, and 10 years ago.

In 1960, the proportion of the building and civil engineering industries resources devoted to building council houses is estimated at 10 per cent. and for offices at between 2 per cent. and 3 per cent. In 1950, the proportion for council houses is estimated at 20 per cent.; the figure for offices was 1 per cent.

Do not those figures show —and, in any case, is it not manifest—that while office building is soaring, particularly in London, Manchester and other cities, council-house building has been slashed by the Government's policy, thus leaving in a hopeless condition hundreds of thousands of families who cannot afford to buy their own homes? Will the Government, therefore, revise their priorities?

Revision is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing, but I would not have thought that the hon. Member was wise to use those figures for criticising the Government's housing policy. The point is that 26 per cent. of the resources of the industry are still being used for building houses.

Does the Minister think that it shows a proper sense of values that we should, apparently, be regarding council-house building as only half as important as it was ten years ago, and office building as being twice as important? Looking at that situation, does the Minister regard it as reasonable?

To start with, the hon. Member has his figures all wrong. The number of local authority houses completed in 1960 was 125,000 as against about 164,000 in 1950, so his remark about office building being twice as important is quite irrelevant.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that there has been a great demand from hon. Members opposite, in particular, for better office accommodation? Do we not have to take the rough with the smooth?

My right hon. Friend's housing policy has done both, with remarkable success.

asked the Minister of Works whether he will make a statement on the defacement of Stonehenge on the night of 1st-2nd March, 1961.

Yes, Sir. During the early hours of 2nd March, the words "Ban the Bomb" and an emblem which, I understand, represents a movement concerned with nuclear disarmament were applied in distemper across nine of the stones; and on the following night crude images of animals etc. were daubed with buff-white paint on ten stones. The police are pursuing inquiries and are co-operating by increasing their patrols in the area. The paint has been removed and no serious damage has resulted from these acts of vandalism.

While we are all grateful that there has been no serious damage to this prehistoric monument which means so much to the country, will the right hon. Gentleman and the police do all they can to get hold of the vandals responsible in each case? Will the Minister also bear in mind that the general public will not grudge any extra expense which may be necessary to safeguard this monument?

Yes. Of course, we will do what we can. The only ray of hope I can offer the hon. Member is that the moon was full that night and these people therefore may have been lunatics.

asked the Minister of Works whether the Library, Members' and Strangers' Dining Rooms, Tea Room and Chamber are air conditioned; and what is the average temperature and humidity at which it is sought to maintain them.

Of the accommodation mentioned, only the House of Commons Chamber is air conditioned, and this is maintained at an average temperature of 67º F. and 55 per cent. humidity. The, same temperature is maintained in the Library, Dining Rooms and Tea Room, but the humidity in these areas cannot be controlled.

Is the Minister aware that last night the temperature in the Members' Dining Room soared above 80° F.? How much longer are hon. Members to be cooped up for hours on end in this building in these stifling Turkish bath conditions with hon. Members precluded from removing the necessary amount of clothing to make such temperatures tolerable?

That is a wide question which seems to me to impinge upon the inter-communication of the ordinary channels.

asked the Minister of Works the total cost of restoring the statues in St. Stephen's Hall; and what expert advice was taken in this matter.

Restoration cost £320 and was carried out under the direction of my architects, who are well qualified to deal with this type of work.

Has the Minister closely inspected these allegedly restored statues? Is he aware, for example, that on the statue of John Selden fingers have been added but that so much cement has been left in the palm of this gentleman's hand that he looks as if he has a bad case of eczema, and that on the statue of William Pitt the younger a piece of marble has been affixed to the end of his nose which gives the impression of a permanent drip? Would it not be possible to ask the architects to look at them again and do their job properly?

I will do my best. I will make a personal inspection of the anatomy of these distinguished gentlemen. I hope, however, that the hon. Member will at least agree that the removal of the coffee staining which was responsible for the former brown colour has at least been a great improvement.

May I offer to accompany the right hon. Gentleman on his inspection?

While not commenting on the condition of the statues of these eminent gentlemen, may I ask the Minister to have regard to the fact that the light in St. Stephen's Hall is both too high and too bright for the admirable proportions of that building? Will he take steps to alter it?

That is another question, but I will take note of it.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the establishment and what are the qualifications of the staff of his Department employed on statistical duties in connection with general housing matters.

Thirty of my staff are directly employed on such duties. The section is headed by a statistician who is supported by executive and clerical staff.

Is the Minister aware that concern has been expressed in many quarters about the adequacy of his Department's statistics compared with the statistics of other Ministries? Will the Minister look again at the Imperial Calendar, which suggests that the staff devoted to housing is very thin on the ground?

I find my staff adequate to perform the duties which I require of them. I am not aware of any of these criticisms. Of course, I have the benefit of the assistance of the Central Statistical Office, the Social Survey, the General Register Office, and other departments. If the hon. Member has in mind particular shortcomings which he suspects, perhaps he will let me know about them.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the establishment and what are the qualifications of the staff of his Department employed on intelligence and research duties in connection with general housing matters.

This depends upon the meaning which the hon. Member attaches to "intelligence and research". As the words are used in my Department over 170 of my staff are so employed. Among them are qualified geographers, economists, sociologists, architects, engineers, chemists, planners, quantity surveyors, estate officers and valuers.

Is not the Minister aware that the figures which he has been quoting to me refer to the purely town planning side of his activities? Concerning housing, are not the considerations that I outlined in the previous Question correct? How is it possible without good research to have an adequate housing policy for the nation?

As I said in reply to the hon. Member's previous supplementary question, if he feels that there are matters on which it would be valuable for my Department to collect or publish further information, I shall be glad if he will let me know.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what consultation he has had with the National Coal Board about provision of houses for transferred mine workers.

My Department has been in consultation from time to time with the Ministry of Power and the National Coal Board about the provision of houses for miners likely to be transferred to other areas. If the hon. Member has Knotting-ley urban district in mind, I can inform him that I have given approval in principle to the payment of special industrial subsidy in respect of houses to be built for this purpose.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I also ask him whether, when these houses are provided, they will be kept under the control of the local authority?

If they are built by the urban district council they certainly will be.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the anxiety about the continuing possibility of decontrol of dwelling houses in general, and those which are partly used for business purposes, what proposals Her Majesty's Government now have to remedy the position; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what use he proposes to make of his power to make orders under Section II (3) of the Rent Act. 1957.

As has been frequently stated, the Government will take no further action to decontrol rents during this Parliament. They do not intend to disturb the protection available to tenants of mixed residential and business premises under the Landlord and Tenant Act, 1954, nor to interfere with the working of the decontrol provisions of the Rent Act, 1957.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the fact that it is a very unsatisfactory situation he is talking about now? People thought when he made his statement recently that he was going to take some steps towards preventing the cancer of decontrol at present. What in faot he is saying at present is quite useless from the point of view of those who have the constant fear of being turned out of their shelter. Will he be good enough to say he will have second thoughts about this?

No. I have nothing to add to the statement I have made in answer to these Questions.

Is the Minister aware that he was reported in the Daily Telegraph, which is usually favourable to Ministers, as having said that he had advised the Prime Minister that the Government could not undertake further measures of rent decontrol in the present Session of Parliament—that is a very different thing from the lifetime of this Parliament—and as having further said, replying to a question at the same meeting:

"Maybe further measures "—

"will be possible, but probably not during my period of office."

I have so much respect for the way the reporters do their work that I always hesitate to suggest that I have been misreported, but I really cannot think I made a slip of the tongue on such an important matter as this.

There are two slips of the tongue here, one in the main speech and one in the reply to a later question. What was happening to the Minister's tongue on this occasion? Was it being governed not by his head but by his real desires in this matter?

The Minister's tongue was speaking the truth as usual. The position is that the Government stand firmly by the pledge which was contained in the manifesto at the last election, that no further action to decontrol property will be taken in the life of this Parliament. What will happen after this Parliament I cannot forecast.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take the opportunity presented by this Question to clear up another very important anxiety which hangs over many people at the present time? He and I and a few other Members have this morning just completed our sittings in Standing Committee on the Rating and Valuation Bill. It is widely believed throughout the country that once the new valuation lists appear in 1963, as rateable values go up, control will be lifted automatically and that even the houses with the limits of £30 in the provinces and £40 in London and which receive the higher rating under the new valuations—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—will fall out of control. Can the Minister make it quite clear that that is not his intention, because it is widely believed to be his intention?

I made quite clear in my speech on Second Reading of that Bill that the Bill had no effect whatever on control or decontrol. If the hon. Member did not clearly understand then, I am quite prepared to repeat it to him now.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what further consideration has been given to the making of a housing improvement grant where a business premise and dwelling-house are one self-contained building.

I am not sure what the hon. Member has in mind, but if she will let me have particulars of the problem I will readily look into it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have already sent him particulars—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—including the plan of the premises to which I particularly refer, and does he not know that in a letter sent to the local authority of Stoke-on-Trent he said that if a shop and a dwellinghouse were adjoined no improvement grant can be made because of the possibility that they might be let as two separate dwellings? Therefore, are not small business people who are in a house adjoining a shop penalised by not benefiting from improvement grants which we are trying to popularise?

No, I understand that my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary replied to a letter from the hon. Member and offered to give further help if more particulars could be provided——

I sent them.

—and if we can see more particulars we are very ready to help.

The Parliamentary Secretary has already got them.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is contemplating any changes in the appointment of members to the board of the Peterlee Corporation.

Yes, Sir. I am in process of consulting the local authorities about the filling of a vacancy, as the Act requires.

While I have no desire to be consulted nor expect to be asked my opinion in a matter of this sort, may I ask, is it not common courtesy to advise the Member for the constituency when changes of this kind are made—and to make it applicable not to Peterlee only but to all the new towns?

I certainly desire no discourtesy to the right hon. Gentleman, but I do not think it has been the practice before on the part of Ministers of this or other Governments to consult the Members of Parliament but to abide by the requirement of the Act, which is that the local authority shall be consulted.

I have not asked to be consulted. Would the right hon. Gentleman listen to what hon. Members ask him? What I ask is that when changes of this kind are made the Members concerned ought to be told about them instead of getting the information elsewhere.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to accept my assurance that I intended no discourtesy to him whatever?

The right hon. Gentleman should buy his local newspaper.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many houses it is estimated will be built and completed in the new town of Peterlee in 1961.

About 350.

Are we making sufficient practical progress in Peterlee? What has gone wrong with the corporation? What has gone wrong with the Minister?

There is nothing wrong with the Minister or with the corporation. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, there was something wrong about the contractors who were doing the principal building there. He also knows that I have done my very best to get that cleared up and to expedite the completion of these houses, and I think that it is happening now.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) also asked what has gone wrong with the Minister. In view of the length of the reply which would be required to that question, will the right hon. Gentleman include it in the OFFICIAL REPORT?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many houses are now let by local authorities in England and Wales, respectively; and what is the average rent charged in England and in Wales.

Local authorities in England own about 3,200,000 houses for letting, and those in Wales and Monmouthshire about 185,000. The most recent information available about rents is that given in "Housing Statistics, 1959–60", published by the Institute of Municipal Treasurers and Accountants, which covers over nine-tenths of council houses in England and over three-quarters of those in Wales. According to this source the average rent in England in 1959-60 was about 20s. ld., and in Wales and Monmouthshire about 20s. 8d.. exclusive of rates in both cases.

While no doubt there are cases of rather high rents, do not the figures indicate that the impact of rents in this country at present is often exaggerated?

Yes, Sir. I think that probably there has been some rise in council renfs since the date of the figures.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs approximately how many men, women, and children are now in temporary accommodation in the administrative county of Essex and in Essex county boroughs because of eviction or inability to find permanent accommodation; and how many families who had been living in such temporary accommodation removed to permanent accommodation in 1960.

The answer to the first part of the Question is 71 families comprising 298 persons. The answer to the second part is 142 families.

Can the Minister give any indication of how long on average these families have to dwell in this most unfortunate kind of accommodation?

No, Sir. I do not think that I could give an answer to that. I have answered the questions which the hon. Member put to me in his Question on the Order Paper.

May I point out to the right hon. Gentleman that I asked how many families were removed to permanent accommodation in 1960? Could he answer that question?

I am sorry. The answer is 142 families.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs by what authority Pan American World Airways have been authorised to place the sign over their offices in Piccadilly; and what steps he is taking to prevent the further damage to amenity consequent upon a proliferation of such signs.

The Westminster City Council has given express consent for the display of this sign. My right hon. Friend is satisfied that the Control of Advertisements Regulations provide sufficient powers to control the display of illuminated signs.

If this sign is approximately as long as this Chamber and almost as deep as the depth under the Gallery, does the hon. Gentleman think that if signs of this type and size were proliferated along Piccadilly they would add to the amenity of the district?

That is a hypothetical question. My hon. Friend is exaggerating. My right hon. Friend feels that the local authorities who control these matters are exercising their responsibilities properly.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what consultations he has had with the British Transport Commission on the question of building office and housing accommodation over its goods yards and sidings, particularly in London; and with what results.

None, Sir. My right hon. Friend has, however, discussed this matter with his right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport who assures him that the British Transport Commission is giving close attention to the development of such sites.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in many London boroughs there remains no land available for development except that which is owned by the Transport Commission, and that the only hope of reducing housing lists and tackling deteriorating properties is by the acquisition of this land quickly for housing development? Will my hon. Friend press on with it?

My right hon. Friend has already asked planning authorities by circular to do what they can to prevent the waste of land. Any proposal such as my hon. Friend suggests is a matter in the first place for the local planning authority.

On a point of order. I am puzzled to know how this Question can get on to the Order Paper, since we are frequently told when trying——

To save time now, may I say that I will consider the matter and will give the hon. Member a chance to raise it after Questions?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he has yet received the report of the Local Government Boundary Commission dealing with the future of Tees-side.

No, Sir. I understand that the Commission will be publishing its draft proposals for the North-East later this year. No report will be sent to me until local authorities and other bodies have had a chance to comment on the draft proposals and to discuss them with the Commission.

Can the Minister be a little more specific by what he means by "later this year"? Is he aware that this inquiry has been going on for a considerable time and that there is considerable local public interest and, indeed, anxiety? Will the right hon. Gentleman ask the Commission to get a move on and let us know its proposals as soon as possible?

No, I do not think that it would be right for me to ask the Commission to get a move on. As the whole House knows, it is engaged on important and sometimes delicate tasks. I am sure that the Commission will make public its draft proposals as soon as it is in a position to do so.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether, in view of the difficulties being experienced in seaside resorts owing to the banning of advertising by mobile loudspeaker vans, he will introduce legislation to amend the Noise Abatement Act.

No, Sir.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in Great Yarmouth, and possibly in other seaside towns, the use of loudspeakers for advertising during the short summer season has become part and parcel of the life of the town)? [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] This is true. During the summer season it has become part and parcel of the life of the town. The only complaint I have ever heard against noise in Yarmouth is against ice-cream vans, which make an astonishing cacophony of sound and which escape the provisions of the Act. When future Measures of this sort come along will the Ministry look at them from the point of view of seeing what damage they will do? Will my hon. Friend please look again at the Act to see whether something cannot be done to give local authorities more power to do what they want to do in their own areas?

This Act only follows the lines of Sections in many Local Acts, and my right hon. Friend has very little evidence of difficulties. There are other ways of advertising than by loudspeaker, and most people appreciate any reduction in noise but do not write in about it.

asked the Minister for Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs (1) how many cases were dealt with in 1960 by the Barking Rent Tribunal: and why it is proposed shortly to close this tribunal.

During 1960 the Barking Rent Tribunal fixed the rent payable in 86 cases and extended the tenant's security of tenure in 46. For some time the area served by this tribunal has not produced enough work to justify the maintenance of a separate tribunal, as the figures show. Amalgamation with the Islington Tribunal will not cause inconvenience to rent appellants in either area, because under the new arrangements cases will continue to be heard locally as necessary, and the number of sittings will be increased.

Despite the figures which the right hon. Gentleman has quoted to show that, in his view, it is not justifiable to keep this tribunal in existence, would he agree that they did substantially increase during the winter months—this winter? Would he explain a little more clearly what he means by saving that the tribunal will continue to sit locally? Does that mean in the same premises as the old tribunal?

I am quite satisfied, even on the latest figures, that there is no overload of work to justify the continuance of a separate tribunal. What I have in mind is that we should find new premises for the tribunal, which will not be the old Islington premises but will be more central to the whole area, and also that the tribunal, when necessary, will sit locally. I do assure the hon. Member that we are not seeking to give tenants long travelling tasks.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask him whether when he says "central to the whole area" he means to treat Islington, Barking and East Ham as one area, because if so there will still be quite a long journey for some? Does he realise that, if it is going to be more inconvenient or slower for tenants to get redress, that will only encourage bad landlords not to mend their ways?

No, I do assure the hon. Member that, first of all, we want to find new premises which will be nearer the centre of the new combined area than any premises at present in use are, and secondly, that the tribunal will be capable of sitting locally in different boroughs and not always in the one centre.

Good.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many local authorities have now informed him of their judgment on the proposed reform of local government in the London area: how many of these broadly agree with those proposals; and how many have made no report.

Out of the 111 local authorities whose districts were wholly or partially within the area reviewed by the Royal Commission, 108 have so far sent me their views. While nearly all accept a need for some changes, views on the Royal Commission's main recommendations range from complete acceptance to outright opposition, with many authorities expressing reservations of one kind or another. When I have had time to study the replies fully, I hope to make a statement.

Will the Minister give the House some indication of the timetable and procedure on this very important matter, because the local authorities want to know exactly what they can expect in days to come and how many days there are?

I certainly agree with the hon. Member that it is most important. There should be no needless delay in making a statement, because it is obviously difficult for local authorities, especially those who have vacancies among their chief officers to fill, if they cannot be sure about their future. At the same time, I am sure that having been asked to send in their views local authorities would wish the Government to have time to study them, some of which have been received only in the last few days.

Have any local authorities expressed any positive enthusiasm for the Commission's proposals on education?

I could not say that without notice.

asked the Prime Minister if he will prepare a scheme, similar to that now being sponsored by the President of the United States of America, by which young people who are qualified in teaching, health services, farming and village development, are encouraged to volunteer to give service in the backward areas of the world, by living among the people, with allowances only to cover their basic needs.

I have been asked to reply.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this Question arises out of the scheme adopted by the President of the United States, who thought that this was the best way to maintain peace in the world? Is he also aware that in America there are private organisations doing this work, but the President thought that that was not sufficient and he adopted the scheme himself? Will the Prime Minister consider adopting a scheme similar to that adapted by the United States President?

Since I last spoke of this matter, the Lord Privy Seal has pointed out that the American President's scheme is a pilot scheme in its formative stages, and so we shall certainly watch with great interest haw it develops. I have already consulted my right hon. Friends who are principally concerned, as I promised, and we are well decided that the best way is to base our scheme on voluntary organisations, who have since been in touch with us and have expressed their pleasure that that is to be the case. I think that it would be a mistake in this country if we under-estimated both the will and the importance of voluntary organisations.

We would all agree about the important work done by voluntary organisations in this field, but can the right hon. Gentleman give us some idea when the Government expect to make a statement? The right hon. Gentleman mentioned that there was contact with voluntary organisations. Are discussions taking place with them on what form Government assistance might take?

I gave an indication on the last occasion of the extent of Government assistance to voluntary organisations and we are in touch with them. There is no definite date for a statement, but I have borne in mind the importance which the House and the right hon. Gentleman attach to this matter.

Does the right hon. Gentleman's reply mean that there will be an increase in grants to these voluntary societies?

I could not add to that today.

Does not every continent bear witness to the fact that we have been doing this very sort of thing for a long time?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what control there will be over the use of rediffusion in Malta by political parties; and what control the Governor will have over both radio and television in an emergency.

A Bill to be enacted shortly proposes the establishment of an Authority responsible for broadcasting and television in Malta. The Authority must satisfy itself that due impartiality is preserved on political matters and that, save under agreed procedures, no matter designed to serve the interest of any political party is included in the programmes. Under the proposed constitution, amendments to the Bill will be reserved for signification of Her Majesty's pleasure. The Bill confers sufficient powers upon the Governor to deal with an emergency.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied that all the political parties will have a fair allocation of time over the wireless or television, both of which are of great importance in Malta?

Yes, Sir. That is the special objective of this Authority.

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that what the Governor is proposing will lead to a complete monopoly in both sound and television broadcasting for Malta Rediffusion? What possibility is there of independent expression of opinion when sound and television broadcasting is under the control of one company?

As I explained to the hon. Member on previous occasions, this is a question of a commercial contract which can be negotiated. As to the question of fairness, this Authority will see that strict fairness and impartiality are preserved.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will state the nature of the consultations which have taken place between him and the Faculty of Advocates, the Law Society of Scotland, the Society of Writers to Her Majesty's Signet, the Society of Solicitors in the Supreme Courts of Scotland, the Scottish Land Owners Federation, the National Farmers Union of Scotland and the Crofters Commission concerning implementation of the proposals of the Mackintosh Committee.

These consultations provided the Government with general observations on the recommendations of the Mackintosh Committee and also with comments on points of particular interest to the organisations consulted.

Which of these organisations has deterred the right hon. Gentleman from implementing the recommendations of the Mackintosh Committee, contrary to the express desires of the legal profession in Scotland? Will the right hon. Gentleman now release himself from that sinister influence and implement the Committee's recommendations?

The hon. and learned Member will know from my previous answers on this point the reasons why so far I have been unable to introduce legislation to deal with this matter.

Which of these organisations is holding up this very desirable implementation of the law?

It should be quite clear that no organisation is holding it up. lit is a question of Parliamentary time.

On a point of order. I beg to give notice that I desire to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity. I hope that I shall have co-operation in doing so.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will consider a survey of beauty spots in Scotland, with a view to legislation to prevent spoliation or destruction of natural assets which could not be re-created.

Local planning authorities already have comprehensive powers of control, but I am examining with the local authority associations what more can be done through specific safeguarding provisions in development plans and otherwise. I am also considering ways and means of encouraging voluntary effort for the maintenance of amenity generally.

As we already have an organisation for preserving historical monuments, and as one of the arguments for investigating the hydro-electric scheme is that it has been accused of destroying beauty spots, would it not be wise to have some authority that could authorise the retention and preservation of beauty spots, which, once destroyed, can never be replaced?

I agree that it is desirable to explore with the local authorities, on the lines I have described in my answer, whether we can make more progress in defining areas of particular beauty and "interest, and whether there is need for any additional body to adjudicate in these matters, but I gravely doubt whether the moment for setting-up such a body is now. My mind is not closed on this matter, however.

At the moment we make a list of historical monuments that should not be destroyed. Would it not be possible to begin by having an official list of beauty spots which must be preserved or about which the Secretary of State must be consulted before they are destroyed?

I feel that we should explore the possibility of doing this through the ordinary device of the development plan before we consider any further measures.