asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs when he anticipates being in a position to make a statement of his views on the Report of the Royal Commission on Local Government in Greater London.

I have now received replies from 108 local authorities. Almost all supported the two points that the boroughs and districts should be given greater powers, and that for some purposes Greater London needs to be treated as a single entity with an overall authority within the local government structure. Widely different views were expressed about the nature, area and functions of any such authority.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. While he is studying this matter with his right hon. Friends, will he give consideration to a point which is outside the terms of reference of the Royal Commission, namely, the desirability of putting London transport under the authority of the overall authority for London?

That is a different question. I take note of my hon. Friend's idea, and I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport will take note of it, but I do not know what view he will take.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he has been able to arrange for a model showing the London County Council's proposals for the development of the site adjoining the Festival Hall, to be exhibited in the Palace of Westminster.

Yes, Sir. For the convenience of hon. Members I have arranged for a model to be on display in the Upper Waiting Hall from Tuesday 11th to Friday 14th April.

May I thank the Minister for his reply, and ask whether it might be possible for him to make further representations so that the model may stay for a week longer than that in view of the great interest shown by hon. Members throughout the House and the fact that all parties support this scheme?

I do not know if I can arrange for it to stay longer, but the assiduity of hon. Members in attending to their Parliamentary duties is such that I feel sure they will all have an opportunity to examine it the moment the House resumes.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what percentage of industrial towns in Lancashire have made smoke control orders; and whether he is satisfied with the progress so far made in implementing the provisions of the Clean Air Act.

There is no accepted definition of any industrial town. In Lancashire 36 per cent. of all urban authorities and 49 per cent. of black area urban authorities have made orders. Generally speaking, quite a good start has been made, but my right hon. Friend would like to see all black area authorities making full and vigorous use of their powers.

In view of the tremendous advantages gained from the drive against atmospheric pollution, will the hon. Gentleman please tell me if he contemplates taking action against backward authorities which are slow to make this progress?

Only persuasion and publicity are in the mind of my right hon. Friend. It is fair to realise that in this region generally 80 per cent. of the black area authorities have submitted smoke control programmes and all but three of those have a target date before 1981.

Is my hon. Friend aware that for some time there has been great concern in the West Riding of Yorkshire and that an interesting pamphlet on this subject was published by the hon. Member for Halifax in the 1880s.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the Trafford Park area and the Lancashire area are the worst areas in the country? Will he ask his regional officers to give special attention to the area referred to by his hon. Friend?

My right hon. Friend welcomes all this evidence of interest and would hope that hon. Members will bring these representations to the notice of their local authorities as well.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will refuse to renew the licence granted to the Martin Earle Works, Rochester, under the Alkali Act in connection with the manufacture of cement unless and until a precipitator is installed.

The current certificate of registration under the Alkali Act expires at the end of the month. No application for a further certificate is before my right hon. Friend. If one is received, the Chief Alkali Inspector will require the installation of external de-dusting plant.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I say that I am sure that he is aware that there is a great deal of anxiety in Rochester about the Martin Earle Works? Those works have been working on cement for over a year without a precipitator, and we are concerned lest they ask for a licence and one is granted, because it will be a further eighteen months, I understand, before one is fitted, so that there would then have been a period of almost thirty months of operation of this factory without a precipitator.

No application for renewal has yet been made to my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is aware of the widespread flooding in riverside areas of London and the Home Counties on the night of 20th–21st March, 1961; and whether, in view of this further warning of the precarious position of these areas, he will expedite his consideration of the Thames flood barrier or some equivalent protective construction.

In answer to the first part of the Question: yes, Sir. In answer to the second, I am trying to hasten a decision on the barrier scheme. The position at the moment is that the Port of London Authority is anxious about the effects of such a scheme on navigation, and other authorities have other reservations. I have arranged for an early discussion between representatives of the principal authorities and the consulting engineers to see how their questions can be resolved and a decision reached.

Can the Minister confirm the reports that the circumstances on this particular night were very similar to the circumstances in 1953, namely, the coincidence of high wind and high tide? Can he assure the House that this matter is being dealt with with the urgency it demands in view of the fact that it is seven years since the first tragic warning and now we have to wait for another one? This seems to require very urgent effort indeed.

There was an exceptionally high tide on that night a week ago, and it was increased beyond the expected level by a north-westerly gale in the North Sea. The position about the barrier plan is, as I have told the House, that I have asked all the public authorities concerned to consider it and express their views on it. It is important that the Government should pay attention to those views. I am trying to arrange that those views, as far as possible, shall be reconciled. Then I shall be able with my colleagues to reach a decision on the matter.

Will the Minister think in terms of a timetable and consider fixing some date by which firm decisions ought to be reached and construction begun?

There is to be a further meeting about this in a fortnight's time, but the Port of London Authority is a very important body and the Port of London is very important from the standpoint of navigation. I cannot sweep aside the difficulties which the P.L.A. sees.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will now announce his decision in connection with the public inquiry held at Croydon on 14th October, 1960, on the future of Croydon Airport.

I am not yet in a position to announce my decision on this, though I am anxious to do so as soon as practicable.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Is he aware that there are many divergent and important interests concerned in this and that five months is quite a long time? Can he give the House a more specific promise that perhaps a decision will be reached in, say, the next month?

All I can say is that I am fully seized of the importance and urgency of this question. I cannot say anything about its merits until I give my decision. It concerns other Ministries besides my own. For instance, the question of the London-Brighton radial road was raised at the inquiry. I am anxious that there should be no unnecessary delay.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is aware that Economic Forestry, Limited propose to plant part of High House Moor, in the Dartmoor National Park, this autumn; and what action he proposes to take to stop the planting.

The answer to the first part of the Question is, "Yes, Sir." As regards the second part, my right hon. Friend understands that these proposals are the subject of negotiations between the Devon County Council and the company, and he does not propose to intervene.

Is not the Dartmoor National Park Committee concerned in this matter, because it is utterly opposed to the planting of this part of High House Moor? I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to give that his favourable consideration, particularly in the light of paragraph 7 of the Memorandum of 26th January.

The hon. Gentleman must realise that this land was bought before the voluntary agreement to which he refers was made. The company was therefore under no obligation to consult the county council; but, as I have already said, they are in consultation and we can rely upon the county council to protect all the interests of amenity.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he will now publish his statement on the working of the grant scheme for Welsh books to date.

Yes, Sir. As it is lengthy I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

May I convey my thanks to the Minister for what he has done already and for his interest in the matter? Is he aware that he promised me this report as far back as 24th May last year? Has he considered the points I raised on that occasion regarding the inadequacy of grants for the publication of individual books and the publishing of out-of-print books?

I should be grateful if the hon. Member would read this report. I am quite ready to make a further statement when I receive the next report that the Welsh University Press Board makes to me. Frankly, I think it wise on the part of the Government to leave detailed decisions to the Board.

I appreciate that more money has been made available for this purpose. Is the Minister aware that experience has shown that the administration of the scheme is not entirely satisfactory? When he consults the University Press Board and the Welsh publishers, will he bear in mind that it would be a good thing if the scheme were revised so as to make i more effective than at present?

I think that it is becoming more effective. An increasing number of grants are being given. But those grants and the method of administration of the amounts, I think, are without precedent, and the Press Board has to proceed empirically. In general, I think it has administered the grants very sensibly.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is aware that some assessors of flood damage in Cardiff are insisting on renewals of furniture being second-hand; whether the Government have issued regulations to this effect; and whether he will make a statement.

The assessors of flood damage in Cardiff are not insisting on renewals of furniture being second-hand, but the basis of compensation is good second-hand value. This was the basis adopted in administering the Lord Mayor's Fund for the East Coast floods of 1953; and I have suggested that on this occasion all the voluntary funds should adopt it.

Is the Minister aware that the people of Cardiff find it hard to distinguish between second-hand value and being told that they must buy second-hand? Will the Minister realise that when people have lost items from their homes they do not all like to put second-hand things in their place? Will he give further consideration to this in view of the fact that a great deal of publicity has been given to the idea that those who have lost would be adequately compensated?

The instruction is that in valuing a liberal view should be taken of the pre-flood conditions, that is, the value should relate to good second-hand condition. If the hon. Member has the misfortune to have his car stolen, he will not find that the insurance company will give him a new car. It will give him the value of what he has lost.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs why he decided to close the Barking Rent Tribunal without first consulting neighbouring local authorities whose residents are affected; and what reply has been sent to the protest made to him by the East Ham Borough Council on this matter.

It is not my normal practice to consult local authorities before arranging for the amalgamation of rent tribunal areas, but always the interests of local residents are carefully considered before any change is made. I am sending the hon. Member a copy of the reply to the clerk of the East Ham Borough Council.

Does not the Minister think that this is a subject on which local authorities ought to be consulted, in view of the experience they gain of housing conditions in their areas and in view of their wide responsibilities in these matters? Will he consult the local authorities in this area about the possibility of the new tribunal holding local hearings in different parts of the area?

I have already told the House that the new tribunal will be prepared to hold local hearings if necessary. As to consulting the local authorities, since I have been the responsible Minister I have brought about no fewer than sixteen amalgamations of rent tribunals and there has been hardly any comment or criticism from the local authorities thereafter.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many houses had a bath, hot water or inside toilet installed by private landlords and owner occupiers, respectively, with a Government improvement grant in Great Britain in the twelve months to the latest convenient date; and what proportions he estimates they are, respectively, of the 5,469,385 households without a bath at the 1951 census.

I regret that the figures requested by the hon. Member are not available. Records of improvement grants are not kept in this detail.

The Minister has himself said that only 18,000 private landlords' houses were treated in this way in the nine months of last year. Do not those miserable figures show that, with a few honourable exceptions, landlords will not bother to install baths even with generous Government grants? Will the Minister now consider the views of the men who really know, the Association of Public Health Inspectors, who, at their annual conference two years ago, asked that some form of compulsion should be applied?

I hope that the hon. Member will support the Clause in the Housing Bill—which had a Second Reading yesterday—which makes the installation of improvements less financially unremunerative to landlords than it has been hitherto.

On a point of order. Before the Minister of Housing and Local Government leaves the Chamber, I wish to put a question to you, Mr. Speaker, about Question No. 9. The Minister said that the figures were not available. First, I have seen the figures and, secondly, the Minister must know the figures when he makes grants for these purposes.

That is not a point of order for me. I cannot make the Minister answer, nor can I make him answer in any particular way.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs the number of caravans occupied as permanent homes under Cannock Rural District Council, Staffordshire, the number of council houses under construction, and the estimated number that will be available to let in the next twelve months.

I understand that there are some 950 caravans occupied as permanent homes within the rural district. The council has 181 houses under construction and estimates that nearly 150 of these will be available for letting in the next twelve months—as well as relets of existing council houses as vacancies occur.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary please note the terrific disparity between the number of caravan dwellers and the hopes of having council houses? Will he also note the price of land in this area, which is now so high that the council is almost afraid to build houses? In those circumstances, will he take very great care to see that no family is asked to leave a caravan site which is properly and hygienically run for a slum back street?

The new Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act, 1960, provides a guard against the last part of that supplementary question. As to the first part, the hon. Lady should not think that all caravan dwellers are seeking to live in a council house. A large number of them are not seeking that and another large number are on other waiting lists than that of Cannock itself.

I entirely agree with the Parliamentary Secretary that it is very important to distinguish between families who genuinely want to live in caravans and maintain a high standard and families who are forced to live in caravans because they have no other home. It is very important that we do not underestimate the number of the latter.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he has considered the representations made to him on behalf of the residents in Gorsey Lane Caravan Site, Great Wyrley, Staffordshire; and, in view of the uncertainty regarding the future of this project, if he will give an undertaking that the number of caravans in occupation will not be gradually reduced and that their five-year lease will be replaced by permanent security of tenure.

My right hon. Friend has considered the representations made to him by the hon. Member. He understands that this caravan site was started without planning permission, but that the owner has since received a permission subject to conditions which provide for a gradual run-down of the site and its final closure in 1965. If the owner is aggrieved at the conditions imposed, he has a right of appeal to my right hon. Friend.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that this is one of the outstanding caravan sites in the district? It is of an exceptionally high standard. Can he not say just a little more? Can he not give the residents just a small ray of hope by at least saying that until the whole merits are gone into there will not be a running down of the site, because nothing could be more dangerous to hygiene and safety than for the site to be gradually run down?

First, there is a right of appeal, which has not yet been exercised. Therefore, I must be careful not to comment on the merits of the case. Secondly, the hon. Lady is evidently misunderstanding the word "run-down". This does not mean that there can be any eviction at all for the moment. It simply means that voluntary leavers are not replaced. The site cannot be brought to an end under the present condition until the end of 1965, and there is a right of appeal against both the time limit and the run-down condition.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is aware of the action of Hatfield Rural District Council in assisting the landlords of Rodney Court, who were demanding rents beyond the means of tenants, to attain possession of what will, in consequence, be decontrolled flats; and whether he will advise local authorities to deal with problems of this kind by means of compulsory purchase orders.

Local authorities are already aware that I am willing to entertain compulsory purchase orders where tenants are in danger of being made homeless because exorbitant rents are being demanded from them by landlords. It must be for each local authority to decide, in the light of all the evidence before it, whether in any particular case a compulsory purchase order should be made. In the case referred to by the hon. Member, I understand that the council will be considering its decision at its next meeting.

Is the Minister aware that what the council has so far decided to do in this case is as follows? The landlords of Rodney Court are asking from tenants whose leases have run out rents of more than five times the gross value. The council has announced its intention of dealing with this problem by rehousing those tenants ahead of the 600 on its waiting list and, in addition, rehousing 12 tenants in statutory controlled dwellings. Does not the Minister agree that that means that the local council is making a present to the landlords of what will become decontrolled dwellings and is doing that at the expense of the 600 people on its waiting list? Does the Minister think that that is a proper way for local authorities to behave? He says that he receives very few requests for compulsory purchase orders, but that may be because too many councils do not tackle these problems in the proper way.

Order. I must renew my appeal that questions should not be so long. We have done only thirteen in twenty minutes.

I found the council's decision somewhat obscure, and I gather that it is returning to the matter at its next meeting, but it is not for me or for Parliament to interfere with the decision of elected local authorities.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether, in view of the shortfall in housing construction in Peterlee, he will now permit the Easington Rural District Council to build an increased number of houses in the area outside Peterlee.

I am prepared to consider any proposals the council may decide to put to me.

Is not the Minister aware that the council has put its proposal before him on several occasions? Why can he not be prevailed upon to grant permission?

I do not know what proposal the right hon. Gentleman has in mind. His Question speaks of

"the shortfall in housing construction in Peterlee …"

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs to what extent private landlords have built houses and flats to let during the past year.

The returns made to me do not distinguish between private houses and flats built to sell and those built to let.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that, in the absence of those figures, it looks very suspiciously as though private enterprise is quite incapable of satisfying the need for accommodation to let at reasonable rents? In those circumstances, is it not all the more necessary to encourage local authorities to go on providing houses and flats at rents within the means of ordinary people?

I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would have read the passage in the White Paper published six weeks ago which said that the Government's aim is to secure that there will be houses for sale and houses for rent in sufficient numbers to keep pace with the rising demand of a prospering society.

If the figures do not distinguish between owner-occupation and renting, why was the right hon. Gentleman able to quote a figure of 160,000 out of 162,000 as being built for owner-occupation?

I am not aware of having quoted that figure, but the answer that I have just given to the hon. Member for Brixton (Mr. Lipton) is correct.

In view of the very unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give the usual notice.

asked the Minister of Housing and Loal Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will ask for reports from London and extra-metropolitan borough councils to show how many domestic dwellings within their area have been unoccupied for six months or more other than dwellings condemned for demolition; and if he will give further consideration to the need to empower those councils compulsorily to acquire such unused property.

No, Sir. Neither do I see any need for giving local authorities additional powers of compulsory purchase, because the existing powers are adequate, and local authorities, which as rating authorities are aware of the facts in their area, are already in a position to take action in suitable cases if they think fit.

First, does not the Minister appreciate that a good many local authorities are not taking this action which I understand he thinks is desirable? Secondly, would it not be of value if he encouraged local authorities to acquaint him with the number of unoccupied dwellings so that he might have an overall picture of the scene?

I do not think it is necessary. The local authorities in the whole London area not long ago were looking for empty properties which they could acquire in order to end requisitioning. They found is extremely difficult to find suitable properties for that purpose.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will now state when, and in what form, the Government of Kenya intend to implement the recommendation of the Proud Committee that television be introduced in Kenya.

On 4th January, 1961, the Government of Kenya issued a statement of policy on broadcasting and television. I have placed a copy in the Library.

In view of the high capital cost to Africans of television sets, can my hon. Friend say whether arrangements are being made for communal viewing?

That will be dealt with when the Kenya Government bring forward detailed legislation.

In these plans, will the Government bear carefully in mind the importance of television in connection with education in an underdeveloped country like Kenya?

Yes, Sir. As the hon. Gentleman will see in the hand-out, one-sixth of the time is to be devoted to adult and primary education.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what action he is taking to deal with the famine in the Northern Province of Kenya.

My right hon. Friend is informed that famine conditions at present exist only in the Turkana district of the Northern Province, and the situation there has been relieved by the generous assistance of the Royal Air Force who have flown supplies of food to this remote and almost inaccessible area.

Whilst realising that this area is remote and virtually inaccessible, may I ask whether the hon. Gentleman will give his attention to it and be as much concerned with it as he would if the famine were in Stafford and Stone? Does he realise that human beings are involved?

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we are taking every step and, of course, we are vitally concerned with the matter. If the right hon. Gentleman looks at the previous Answer again, he will see that great assistance is being given.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many holdings have been bought by the Kenya Land Commission in each of the six months up to the last convenient date; how many acres, and at what average price per acre, have been acquired in each month; and if he will give separate figures for purchases from owners of non-European stock.

The Kenya Land Development and Settlement Board, which I assume my hon. Friend has in mind, was not set up until January this year. Since then it has bought six holdings totalling 4,549 acres at an average price of £14·35 an acre. All these holdings were bought in March, and from European owners. The scheme is very much in its initial stages, and the first target is the purchase, sub-division and farm planning of 180,000 acres.

Whilst thanking my hon. Friend for that Answer, may I ask whether he can tell us how the Lands Board is being administered? Would he agree that it is in the best interests of Kenya that agricultural production should be maintained at a high level, which can generally be best done with largish farms with modern facilities?

Yes. We are seeing that there is no diminution, owing to this reorganisation, of the actual output of these acres.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what progress is being made with the land settlement scheme in Kenya for which Her Majesty's Government have made available £3½ million in loans and grants in the period to the end of March, 1964; and if he is satisfied that the Settlement Board has adequate staff and finance to carry out its task.

As regards the first part of my hon. Friend's Question, I would refer him to the reply I have just given the hon. Member for Dorset, North (Sir Richard Glyn).

Will the Colonial Office give high priority to this project, particularly in view of the great importance today of getting more responsible Africans settled on the land as yeoman farmers, and also providing an active market in land for those who want to sell their present holdings? Will my hon. Friend look again at the matter of staffing? There seems some evidence that the Settlement Board is very short of land settlement staff, and could get on better if it had some more competent men.

I will certainly bear in mind what my hon. Friend has said.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if, in view of the obscurity of Appendix II to the Report of the Parliamentary Delegation to Kenya of January 1954, Command Paper No. 9081, he will consider publishing a further explanatory memorandum indicating how many references in this document are regarded by Her Majesty's Government as applying to Jomo Kenyatta; and what evidence Her Majesty's Government have about action taken by Kenyatta to prevent the administering of such oaths.

My right hon. Friend does not consider that any commentary on the information about oaths supplied by the Parliamentary Delegation in 1954 is required to demonstrate Jomo Kenyatta's guilt on specific charges relating to Mau Mau. This guilt was fully established in the courts. As regards the last part of the Question, I have no information bearing directly on the administering of oaths. At the trial, it was alleged in Kenyatta's defence that he either knew nothing of Mau Mau or sought to denounce it, but this was not accepted by the magistrate.

Is my hon. Friend aware that Kenyatta is mentioned by name in two Mau Mau oaths published in the Report and, by inference, in many of them? Is he further aware that there have been reports recently of further subversive meetings and oath takings in Kenya? Would he agree that, in those circumstances, Kenyatta should not be released until he has openly repudiated Mau Mau and deprecated the administering of these obscene oaths that have resulted in the deaths of many innocent people?

My right hon. Friend has made it perfectly clear that Kenyatta's release is a matter for the Governor to decide. As to the other part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I would point out that the oath-taking bestialities were not the main purport of the charge against Kenyatta; but that of the management of the Mau Mau society. I am unable to go any further about the release of Kenyatta than the statements made from this Dispatch Box by my right hon Friend.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that Kenyatta was convicted, amongst other things, on the evidence of a witness who was subsequently convicted in the same court of perjury, and that it was, therefore, the evidence of a totally unreliable person? Is he further aware that Kenyatta has long ago completed the sentence that followed his conviction, obtained in that way, and that it is quite clear that there will be no settled Government in Kenya until he is released.

That is a matter of opinion, but what we maintain, and what my right hon. Friend maintains, is that we will not release Kenyatta until there is no risk to law and order in doing so. That must be the prime consideration of anyone endowed with the office of Secretary of State for the Colonies.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies (1) whether he is aware that, in the recent Kenya elections at Njoro, the New Kenya Party were displaying official banners linking a vote for them with the release of Kenyatta; and whether he is satisfied that intimidation was absent from these elections;

So far as the Kenya Government are aware, no banner coupling the name of Kenyatta with "Vote for the New Kenya Party" was displayed at this or any other election meeting. It was observed that at a meeting of the Kenya Coalition Africans were carrying placard's reading either "Vote for the New Kenya Party" or "Release Kenyatta", but both slogans were not displayed simultaneously on the same placard. My right hon. Friend does not consider that any inquiry into the conduct of the recent Kenya elections is necessary.

In view of the very many allegations of intimidation, bribery and corruption in the course of the recent elections in Kenya, will the Government send out to Kenya an impartial independent commission of inquiry to take evidence and to report?

No, Sir. Any question of malpractice, bribery or corruption must come before the Kenya courts, and no such charges have been made.

Why do we put ourselves time after time in a position of saying that we will not give in to pressure and then give in to it? We shall give in. We shall release Kenyatta. Why not get on with it now?

We have made it perfectly clear that we shall release Kenyatta when we consider that he is no longer a risk to law and order in Kenya.

Has not the hon. Gentleman ever heard of Tory intimidation at elections?

I have heard of people releasing sparrows in Conservative meetings—

What sparrows?

From the Labour Front Bench.

In view of the flippant and unsatisfactory replies of my hon. Friend, I beg to give notice that I shall seek leave to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what inquiries he has made, and what information he has received, about the extent to which Jamaica and other West Indian islands will benefit from the United States President's plans to give aid totalling $600 million, under the Act of Bogota, 1960, to these and other territories.

Mr. Douglas Dillon told the United States Senate Foreign Relations Committee on 15th August, 1960, that the Federation of the West Indies is included in the Social Development Programme for Latin America set up under the Act of Bogota because it will shortly become independent. During my recent visit to the West Indies I had long and cordial talks with the United States representatives, and they expressed great friendliness towards the Federation. Hon. Members will know that during the talks on the United States bases in the Federation, the United States representatives were able to promise aid to the islands concerned amounting to $2½ million.

Was that figure under the Act of Botota? If not, what is the extra figure that may be available under that Act?

The Act of Bogota applies only to independent States in Latin America. This was a different payment, but I thought that the hon. Gentleman would be interested to know how the United States are helping the West Indies.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when, where, and in what form of words, the Government made it known in March, 1960, that constitutional changes in Northern Rhodesia, other than consequential on the Federal review, could not be ruled out in all circumstances.

The only statement on the question of constitutional change in Northern Rhodesia made at this time was that which my right hon. Friend made in Lusaka on 29th March. He then said:

"My colleagues and I have no plans in contemplation to amend the Constitution in Northern Rhodesia, although I cannot, of course, predict the outcome of the review of the Federal Constitution or guarantee that its result may not entail certain consequential changes in territorial Constitutions."

Can my hon. Friend say whether the United Federal Party leaders in Northern Rhodesia are correct in thinking that the British Government had assured them that there would be no constitutional changes in Northern Rhodesia, other than those consequential on the Federal Review?

It is worth pointing out that when my right hon. Friend spoke, he had hoped that that procedure would be followed; that there should be a Federal Review prior to the consequential changes taking place in Northern Rhodesia and Southern Rhodesia. In point of fact, as the House will know, at the Federal Review Conference held this last December, it was decided by all parties concerned that the local constitutional reviews should proceed.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on police action at the meeting in Nyasaland in January, 1961, at which Mr. Petro Chinkonde lost his life and a number of others were injured.

Yes, Sir. At a public meeting at Soche on 22nd January, a small party of police in charge of a recording van had to send for reinforcements to protect it from an unruly crowd. After nearly two hours of difficulty, the crowd of about 5,000 persons got out of control, throwing stones and attacking Press men and a television cameraman. A detachment of the police mobile force was called in and, after due warning, dispersed the crowd with tear smoke and a baton charge. Eleven persons were detained in hospital after the incident, one of whom, Mr. Petro Chinkonde, died later. Ten other persons were hurt, as well as six members of the police.

Does the Minister appreciate how serious is this statement he has made, that there were a good many injuries and one person lost his life? Is he aware that it is denied by those who took part in the meeting that there was any stoning by the participants in the meeting? Would it not be better to make a more thorough investigation of the matter? Also, why was a recording van there in the first place?

A police recording van was there as one of the conditions of the permit for the meeting to take place. As the hon. Member knows, there have in the past been accusations of sedition and so forth in Nyasaland, and it is part of the practice that at these large meetings there should be a recording van present. As regards his request for an inquiry, the Governor made a full administrative inquiry into the matter, and my right hon. Friend is convinced that the findings of that inquiry are correct.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what grants and loans have been received respectively by Aden Colony and the Aden Protectorate during the past five years from Her Majesty's Government and from other than Colony and Protectorate sources; and, in particular, which is the total amount advanced in respect of the Abyan and other irrigation schemes.

Grants by Her Majesty's Government to the Colony and the Protectorate during the last five years total £596,000 and £5,378,000 respectively; loans amount to £1,020,000 and £6,000 respectively. A further £5,694,000 has been spent directly by Her Majesty's Government on Protectorate services. There have been no grants or loans from other external sources. The grants to the Protectorate include about £100,000 for irrigation works, but no grants have been made to the Abyan scheme during this period.

Does that mean that no funds have been secured from, say, the Nuffield Trust, U.N.E.S.C.O., or any body of that kind? Further, in view of the very encouraging success of the Abyan scheme, is it contemplated that similar schemes should be started elsewhere; and should not even greater subventions than have been given be made available for the Protectorate and the Colony?

Yes, Sir, we are looking into this. Our inspector is out there. We hope at present to recruit two more irrigation engineers and hydrologists, and three schemes are now being contemplated.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will appoint a committee with similar terms of reference to the Streatfeild Committee.

Some parts of the Report of Mr. Justice Streatfeild's Committee will be of considerable interest to those concerned with the treatment of offenders in Scotland and I do not consider that there is a case at the present time for setting up a similar Scottish committee.

Although, as the right hon. Gentleman says, the Report deals with offenders, he will be aware that the Committee dealt also with the interval which elapses between offences being committed and the offenders being brought before the courts. In view of the figures which the Secretary of State himself has provided in regard to Glasgow, will he reconsider the matter?

Part A of the Report of the Streatfeild Committee does not deal with a matter which is relevant to Scotland, as I think the hon. Member will realise if he studies it, but I am aware of the delays to which he refers and, together with the Lord Advocate, I am considering whether any steps are necessary to ease the position.

asked, the Secretary of State for Scotland whether his attention has been called to the report of Glasgow's firemaster on the causes of the recent fire at Woolworth's Store, Argyle Street; and what steps he is taking to ensure a high standard of fire prevention measures and their enforcement.

I am aware of the contents of the report, which I have brought to the attention both of my right hon. Friend, the Minister of Labour, in connection with the forthcoming Government legislation relating to health, welfare and safety in certain non-industrial premises including shops, and also of the Joint Fire Prevention Committee of the Central Fire Brigades Advisory Council, which, pending legislation, is preparing guidance aimed at securing a higher standard of fire precautions in shops and departmental stores.

We have heard about this projected legislation for a long time. Has the right hon. Gentleman forgotten the recent disastrous fires in Glasgow? Will he cast his mind back to the fire in the whisky store and bonded warehouse? When does he expect to introduce legislation, and when does he expect to receive the report from the Joint Fire Prevention Committee?

As my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary said last July, we hope to introduce the Bill before the Offices Act comes into force at the beginning of 1962. I hope shortly to be able to issue guidance to fire authorities which will assist fire prevention officers to give advice about steps to be taken to ensure higher standards of fire precautions in shops and departmental stores.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether the Holy Loch area is still listed as a reception area for evacuees in the event of war.

The detailed re-examination of evacuation problems is not yet complete. Any question of classification of areas must await the outcome of the review.

Will not the Secretary of State agree that this question needs very little consideration? If ultimately the Holy Loch area is removed from the list as a reception area, what areas will replace it for evacuees from Ayrshire and Glasgow?

All the relevant factors must be taken into account and will be taken into account. I cannot prejudge what the final review will show.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to receive his First Annual Report from the Red Deer Commission.

I expect to receive this Report next week.

So the Question has been helpful, I take it. The right hon. Gentleman will recall that it is nearly two years since we parted with the Bill. Has he no interim figures to give us an idea of how he is proceeding in regard to the problem of deer overcrowding in the Highlands? Is he any more successful there than in his attempts to deal with the overcrowding of human beings in Glasgow?

The hon. Member will appreciate that the Deer Commission came into existence only on 1st October, 1959, and the report will cover its operations since then.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the number of school children, and what percentage of the total school population it represented, who were receiving free meals, taking school meals and taking school milk, respectively, at the latest convenient date.

In round figures, the number of children receiving free meals in education authority schools in Scotland at a date in September, 1960, was 57,000 or 6 per cent. of the total school roll: the number taking meals was 272,000 or 31 per cent. of the total: and the number taking milk was 732,000, or 83 per cent. of the total.

Has the Secretary of State diagnosed the figures in such a way as to realise that more than double the number taking school meals are taking school milk, and that this is due in principle to the one reason that school milk is free? Will he do his best to resist any attack by the hatchet men in the Cabinet to interfere with the free school milk for our Scottish children?

I am not convinced that price is the most important element in all this. There are various factors besides price—above all, the fact that many parents wish their children to go home to lunch.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consideration he has given to the representations in respect of the conditions of service, salaries and recruitment in the teaching profession, submitted to him by the staff of Aberhill Secondary School, Methil; what reply he has sent; and whether he will make a statement.

The reply sent to these representations points out that salary negotiations must be pursued through the National Joint Council and that it is my continuing concern to do everything I can to encourage recruitment to the teaching profession and, so far as lies within my power, to help in securing such improvements as may be required in conditions of service.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that education in Scotland today is facing a staffing crisis, the effects of which will far transcend anything which might have arisen from the shortage of policemen? Does he not realise that the mood of the teachers in Scotland, for which he is largely responsible, is not one to be fooled around with at this time? Will he, therefore, deal with the problem as a real emergency and prove to the Scottish people that our heritage in education is still one of which we can he justly proud?

The hon. Member knows that I am fully aware of the anxious position in Scotland with regard to teachers, and I am doing everything I possibly can to meet the situation.

What is the right hon. Gentleman doing?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give the reasons for the Government's refusal to accept the Knox Committee's recom- mendation that full pay and full pension should be granted under certain conditions to teachers returning to service after retirement.

The Government were unable to accept this recommendation because it conflicted with the fundamental principle of public service superannuation that a pensioner reemployed in the same service may receive only so much of his pension that, when it is added to his pay, the total of pay and pension will not be greater than his pay at the time of his retirement.

Is the Secretary of State aware that a retired teacher can take up employment with a commercial concern without loss of pension, but that if he re-enters the classroom he is penalised by a reduction in the amount of his pension, and that this policy is wholly unjust and unwise?

The hon. Member will also be aware that this issue goes far beyond teachers' pensions. It goes very wide indeed.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, if he will set up a committee of inquiry to examine the state of education in Scotland.

Various aspects of education have recently been examined either by committees specially appointed for the purpose or by standing committees, and others are at present being examined in these ways.

Does the Secretary of State realise that education in Scotland is no longer in a state of crisis: it is now in a situation where it is chaotic as a result of the tragic shortage of qualified teachers, part-time education and over-sized classes, and yesterday's decision of the Glasgow teachers to strike on 3rd May? Does he not realise that, if a situation of disaster is to be avoided, a sense of urgency and seriousness will have to be shown by the right hon. Gentleman?

I am sure that the hon. Member will appreciate from my answer to a previous supplementary question that I am very fully aware of the anxious position of teaching in Scotland.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.