asked the President of the Board of Trade what is the present rate of unemployment in The Hartlepools; and what are the prospects for future industries coming into the area.

The current rate in the Hartlepools group of Employment Exchange areas is 3·3 per cent. wholly unemployed, compared with an average rate in 1960 of 4·3 per cent. There are about 2,200 jobs in prospect, but these are nearly all the result of expansions planned by firms already in the area.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that very helpful reply, may I tell him that I appreciate all the efforts which the Board of Trade have made in the North-East to date? May I remind him that the Reserve Fleet is to disappear from Hartlepools by 1962, which will create a measure of unemployment in the months ahead?

We will certainly keep a close eye on that situation.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what steps he is taking to maintain the export trade in worsted yarn to the countries of the European Common Market, especially Germany.

We are seeking a reduction in the Common Market tariff in the current negotiations in Geneva.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this matter is causing great concern in my constituency, which produces about a quarter of the exports to the Common Market, particularly to Germany? Does my right hon. Friend agree that we shall not have the opportunities to maintain this trade unless we are able to get into the Common Market? Will he pursue policies in that direction?

The last part of the supplementary question is going a little wide. I agree on the importance of this item of trade and we are doing all that we can to protect it. I am hopeful of success.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware of the situation in Barton-on-Humber where many of the inhabitants, unable to find work locally, are obliged to go fifteen miles to shift work in the steel works at Scunthorpe; and what steps Her Majesty's Government are taking to encourage industry to come to towns and villages near Scunthorpe, such as Barton-on-Humber, where rail and sea transport are readily available.

I am aware that some workers travel daily from Barton-on-Humber to Scunthorpe, but this is to be expected in modern conditions and I do not consider that I should be justified in encouraging further industrial development in Barton-on-Humber, in view of its present low rate of unemployment and of the overriding needs of the development districts.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that this low unemployment is caused by the fact that a great many, not just some, of the inhabitants of Barton-on-Humber have this appalling burden of going to Scunthorpe, fifteen miles, in all weathers and at all times of the day, because of shift work? The reason that there is low unemployment is that they have to go to Scunthorpe. Is he satisfied with the position in Barton? Would it not be much better to try to induce some other industry to go there and at least to employ those workers who are too old to go to Scunthorpe and in any case do not want to go there?

I do not think that fifteen miles each way daily can be described as an appalling burden. My duty by Statute is to give proper preference to the requirements of those districts where unemployment is still substantial.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what action Her Majesty's Government intend to take on tariffs, following the announcement by the French Government that they will make a unilateral cut in their tariff rates of 5 per cent. to take effect from the 1st April, 1961.

None, Sir.

Is not this a deplorable state of affairs when such a protectionist Government as the French Government are ahead of the British Government in a reduction of tariffs? Will the right hon. Gentleman do something about it?

These reductions which the French Government are making are merely in anticipation of reductions which they will shortly have to make anyway under the Treaty of Rome. The British Government have persistently made it clear that we are anxious in the forthcoming G.A.T.T. negotiations to negotiate substantial tariff reductions, but these, we consider, should be reciprocal.

The hon. Member recently said that our own tariffs are too high and that British industry would do much better for less protection, and this is precisely why the French are making these cuts early. Why cannot the British Government make unilateral cuts in tariffs?

Because I think that the right way to cut tariffs is by getting reciprocal reductions at the same time so that we can not only increase competition in this country but also increase opportunities.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he has yet had any indication from the experience of British companies gathered at the Leipzig Fair of 1961 of the likelihood of reduced or increased representation of British companies at the Fair in 1962.

I am informed that the experience of British participants at the recent Leipzig Fair will encourage most of them to show again next year, and that some exhibitors will probably require more space.

Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there are a number of firms, I am informed, which have been exhibiting for three or four years and which have been able to sell only just the products on the stand? They are getting a little bored with that and will not go on unless there is an opening up of trade between this country and East Germany.

There has been a substantial increase in trade between this country and East Germany, and the recently announced trade agreement between the F.B.I. and its East German counterpart provides for quite a big increase again this year.

Would it not help matters considerably if we did the sensible thing and recognised the East German Government?

I do not think that it would have the slightest effect on our trade with them.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will introduce a provision in the Finance Bill to ensure that married men paying alimony are not scheduled and taxed as single men.

No, Sir. It would not be right to extend the allowance for a married man who maintains his wife out of taxed income to a man paying alimony who is effectively relieved from tax on his alimony payments.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will consider the endowment by Her Majesty's Government at one of the universities of the United Kingdom of a research unit to study the military, economic and other problems of world disarmament.

No, Sir.

Would the Minister reconsider this before rejecting the matter out of hand? Is he aware that there are a great many difficulties and complicated problems which it is impossible for a busy Government Department to tackle? Will he bear in mind the example set by the Home Secretary in encouraging research at universities on penal problems and remember that the Americans are doing this on a considerable scale? Are we always, under the present Government, to lag behind the idealism of the new American administration?

No request has yet been received from any university for the endowment or encouragement of a research unit of this kind.

Cannot the Government take the initiative in this matter? Surely they are not going to sit back and allow not only the Russians to lead us in propaganda peace appeals but also now the Americans?

This goes to the heart of our whole system of dealing with the universities in this country. Where it is a matter of a research unit, we would always wait for a university to make a request. That is the whole basis of our system of dealing with the universities through the University Grants Committee. It would be quite a new departure in policy if the Government were to take the initiative in encouraging a research unit of this kind.

Is the Minister saying that if we can persuade a university to take an interest in this matter, the Government will sympathetically consider such a request?

I am sure that both the universities themselves and the University Grants Committee will take note of the views expressed by hon. Members opposite.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he intends to take steps to lower the ages for the repayment of post-war credits.

I regret that I cannot at present make any statement about lowering the age for repayment of post-war credits.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman when he expects a statement to be made? Is his right hon. and learned Friend reserving the matter for the Budget statement?

I do not think that I can add to what I have said this morning.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what would be the cost to the Exchequer in a full year of extending the Overseas Trading Corporation provisions to overseas subsidiary companies.

The cost cannot be estimated precisely but would probably be several million pounds in a full year.

Would my hon. Friend agree that in any case the cost of extending these provisions to overseas subsidiaries would be likely to be less than the original cost covering overseas branches only? In any event, would he not agree that the cost in tax concessions has been of great benefit to British industry and financial institutions?

I have no doubt that we shall have an opportunity of discussing all these matters at the appropriate time fairly soon. In the meantime, I am sure that my hon. Friend would not expect me to anticipate my right hon. and learned Friend's Budget statement and the Finance Bill.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he discussed with the London County Council the future of the South Bank site before making his decision not to proceed with the building of a National Theatre.

No, Sir. But my right hon. and learned Friend discussed this matter with the Chairman of the L.C.C. on March 13th and further discussions between the Government and the L.C.C. will take place as occasion requires.

Is not this a terrible example of the shabby way in which the Government have treated the London County Council? Is not the Minister aware that the L.C.C. has held this site for over ten years and, owing to the deplorable manner in which the Government have handled the question of a National Theatre, there is considerable doubt whether we shall ever see one, and that we shall have to rely on the forward-looking and imaginative boldness of the L.C.C. to provide it?

I cannot agree with what the hon. Gentleman said, nor, for that matter, would his right hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall (Mr. Strauss), who said on 21st March:

"I personally agree with the right hon. and learned Gentleman's approach to this question and think that this may be the best way of establishing a real national theatre."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 21st March, 1961; Vol. 637, c. 212.]

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what would have been the earned income required in 1939 and 1945, respectively, to provide the equivalent purchasing power of an earned income today of £6,536 12s. 6d. net or £24,000 gross.

Allowing for changes in taxation and in the internal purchasing value of the pound, the gross earned income equivalent in 1939 and 1945 to a net income after tax today of £6,536 12s. 6d. was £3,492 and £17,474 respectively, to the nearest pound.

Do not these figures show that the taxation on management has become very high for a country which depends so much on its exports?

I think that the figures that I have given speak for themselves. I must decline at this time to engage in any interchange with my hon. Friend on fiscal matters.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what increase in pension has been made by Her Majesty's Government to a public service pensioner, Whose pension was £500 in 1946; what is the real value of his present pension in terms of the value of money in 1946; and what information he has about comparative figures for British public service pensioners who worked for the Government of Sudan.

A United Kingdom civil servant retiring on 30th June, 1946, with a pension of £500 a year will have received since then pensions increase of £183; and the value of his present pension in terms of 1946 purchasing power is £396. As for the third part of the Question, I assume the hon. Member has in mind British pensioners of the Sudan Government: I am advised by my right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal that the comparable figures are £103 and £350.

Do not the figures show that the time has come again for a revision of the inadequate pensions paid to veteran public service pensioners? Is the Financial Secretary aware that Britishers who served as civil servants in the Sudan are the only civil servants who have not had their pensions adjusted in any way to meet the rise in the cost of living? If the Sudan Government cannot accept their responsibilities, will the hon. Gentleman tell his right hon. and learned friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer that we in this country ought to accept our own moral responsibility to these British citizens?

I cannot comment on the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. On the second part, I take note of what he has said and I shall pass it on. I think that it was accepted that the members of the Sudan Civil Service were not regarded as being in the service of the Crown, but were recruited by the Sudan Government which retains the responsibility for paying their pensions, including any pension increases to offset the effects of inflation, but I will certainly bear in mind what the hon. Gentleman has said.

Will my hon. Friend also bear in mind that there is a strong feeling on this side of the House that something ought to be done on the question of Sudan civil servants' pensions?

I have, of course, noted the points made in this House by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Mr. Tilney), my hon. Friend the Member for Angus, North and Mearns (Sir C. Thornton-Kemsley) and my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings (Sir N. Cooper-Key). This is a difficult question, because the whole field of public service pensions is difficult anyway, particularly in this territory where we are dealing with people who are not technically British public service pensioners.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he proposes to take to reduce the disparity between financial rewards in the higher ranks of the public service and outside industry, particularly among technical civil servants and especially with regard to the benefits in kind which are available in outside industry but not in the public service.

None, Sir. The Standing Advisory Committee on the Pay of the Higher Civil Service reviewed the situation early in 1959 in the light of the principles recommended by the Royal Commission on the Civil Service. The Government accepted their recommendations and there is no reason to think that another review is called for now.

If the present trend continues, is it not the case that we shall be in danger of losing from the public service the very best people, even taking into account their desire to serve the public and also such questions as honours?

This is, of course, an important point. On the other hand. I do not believe that this is a field in which any inquiry or commission would be particularly helpful. I think that here we are quite definitely in the range where it is for the Government themselves to take the right decisions in the light of all the facts before them.

May we take it that the Government, having decided to pay a very high salary to the Chairman of the Transport Commission, will now pay similar salaries to the heads of the other nationalised industries?

That goes rather beyond the Question on the Order Paper.

Is the Financial Secretary aware that the higher ranks of the Civil Service first received what were called Priestley increases and next what were called Coleraine increases? May we now expect them to receive Beeching increases?

I do not think that I will be drawn on that one. Anyone in my present office must have been aware that there was a period when the whole question of salaries in the Civil Service was pretty frequently on the move, to put it no higher than that.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much it costs to mint a penny and halfpenny coin, respectively.

It would not be in the public interest to disclose these figures.

Is it correct to assume that it costs more than a halfpenny to manufacture a halfpenny and probably about a penny to make a penny? Is it not very strange and most suspicious that the Treasury is not willing to disclose how much it costs to make these coins?

No. The answer is a very simple one, namely, that the Mint's foreign competitors do not reveal their production costs, and I therefore do not think that it would be right to expect the Mint to reveal its production costs.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware of the dismay and disappointment caused by his decision about the National Theatre; and whether he will reconsider his decision.

No, Sir. The Government's decision was bound to cause disappointment in some quarters; but I believe there are many who have received it with favour.

Will the hon. Gentleman give an instance of what person of any eminence in the artistic or theatrical world has received it with favour? Will he give an instance of any responsible newspaper which in its leading article has commended his right hon. and learned Friend for this decision? I ask him to recognise that there is general dismay over the whole country about this niggling and petty way of dealing with such a big question.

No. I think that the hon. Gentleman is exaggerating. I gave one instance of eminence a little while ago, namely, the right hon. Member for Vauxhall (Mr. Strauss). The hon. Gentleman asked me about the Press. I think that the Birmingham Post can be considered a paper of some eminence.

Will the Financial Secretary have another look at this? Does he not realise that Britain, which produced the world's greatest dramatist, is about the only civilised country in the world which has not a National Theatre?

The Government have given a great deal of thought to this and I should be hopelessly misleading the House if I gave any impression that the Government were likely to go back on the main lines of their decision. I remind the House that my right hon. and learned Friend gave a quite clear indication that he thought that his own policy would involve somewhere between an extra £300,000 a year and an extra £450,000 a year for the theatre. I think that most people who have read my right hon. and learned Friend's statement and his answers to questions feel that the theatre can take a great deal of comfort from it.

If, as seems probable, in default of any action by the Government the London County Council proceeds to build a National Theatre, will the Financial Secretary pledge the Government to provide the L.C.C. with the £1 million which was promised by the House in 1949 for this specific purpose?

No. I think that I should be extremely unwise to give a pledge of that kind in answer to the hon. Gentleman, whose supplementary question goes quite a long way beyond the Question on the Order Paper.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the replies on this Question, I give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many letters were opened within the last convenient twelve months under the authority of Section 22 of the Exchange Control Act, 1947; and what was the total amount of illegally remitted currency discovered by this examination.

In 1960 approximately 300,000 letters were opened and £50,000 of illegally remitted currency discovered.

Will my hon. Friend say whether any currency plots were unmasked by this examination, and also how much it cost the Treasury to perform this currency examination?

I cannot give my hon. Friend the cost of this operation, but I have made inquiries and I am told that the number of people involved is probably about four to six. The position is that, whilst we have certain currency restrictions and currency control continues to be necessary in order to prevent the unauthorised export of capital, we must do this. I assure my hon. Friend that the need for these measures is always kept under review.

Will the hon. Gentleman say in how many of the total number of letters opened no currency was found?

I cannot give that information. Only a very sketchy record is kept of the number of letters opened and examined. To do anything more than this would be a waste of time and would involve unnecessary public expenditure. I should like the House to consider this matter in perspective. I am told that about 350 million letters a year leave the country. Therefore, the number opened is less than one-tenth of 1 per cent. of outgoing mail.

asked the Secretary of State to the Treasury why Medical teaching has been specifically excluded from the terms of reference of the committee set up under the chairmanship of Sir Edward Hale to inquire into teaching methods in the universities; and whether he consulted the Minister of Health before reaching this decision.

The Committee to which the hon. Member refers was appointed by the University Grants Committee after discussion with the universities. The precise terms of reference of a Committee of this kind are not a matter on which either I or my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health would expect to be consulted. I understand that teaching in medicine—and in dentistry and veterinary science—which raises problems different from those of other undergraduate teaching, is excluded.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a very strong case for an inquiry into medical teaching methods? Whilst it may not be his direct concern, will he, in conjunction with his right hon. Friend the Minister of Health, use his influence with the University Grants Committee to get the terms of reference changed in order to include medical teaching?

I will certainly take note of what the hon. Gentleman has said. As I expect he is aware, the present inquiry is essentially of a factual and analytic nature and is not aimed at making policy recommendations. I will certainly bear in mind the hon. Gentleman's points.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is yet in a position to announce which of the recommendations in the Ingleby Report the Government propose to accept and incorporate in legislation, other than those incorporated in the Criminal Justice Bill.

We are considering the Committee's recommendations in the light of the comments which we have received from the organisations chiefly interested, but I am not yet in a position to indicate our conclusions.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. I am quite certain that he is aware of the excellent work done by the N.S.P.C.C. Is he aware of the resentment which would be felt by the Society were there any curtailment of its power to initiate action against people who have been cruel to children, as I rather gather is envisaged in the Report?

I note what my hon. Friend says and will take it into consideration when making up my mind.

Apart from the question of the N.S.P.C.C. and the Ingleby Committee, can the right hon. Gentleman give us any indication as to when he is to introduce a new Children and Young Persons Bill, which has been promised us following the Criminal Justice Bill?

No decision has been taken about future legislation. The Home Office is certainly taking its share of fresh legislation and reform. This is one for the future, which is under consideration now.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will give a direction to the Technical Sub-Committee of the Joint Fire Prevention Committee of the Central Fire Brigades' Advisory Councils for England and Wales and for Scotland that, when framing recommendations for guidance to fire authorities on fire safety precautions in large departmental stores following the Henderson fire in Liverpool, they should avail themselves of the assistance of technical officers of the Liverpool Corporation and the Liverpool Fire Authority who, as a result of practical experience gained at the Henderson fire, might be able to give advice to this Sub-Committee in framing a suitable code of precautions.

While it would not be appropriate for my right hon. Friend to tell the Sub-Committee to seek advice from any particular source, he is in no doubt that it will ensure that it has full information about the Henderson fire.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that up to the time I tabled this Question, although the Liverpool authority and the fire authority had requested the right to make a statement to the Sub-Committee, they had received no reply, only an acknowledgment? Is he aware that only two days ago there was another fire in one of the newly-built shops in the Liverpool area, which underlines the need for some additional information regarding building and fire precautions in premises and shops? In view of this, will he think again about giving the Sub-Committee directions to receive information and obtain advice from those who know about this subject?

No. It is for the Sub-Committee itself to decide what information it needs. The hon. Lady will remember that the chairman of the Technical Sub-Committee is Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Fire Services and that he examined the Henderson fire. He visited the site and reported. I have no doubt that he and other members of the Committee will take note of the points which the hon. Lady has made, but we must leave it to the Committee.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that wild birds such as finches are being imported from India and kept in cages, whereas under the Protection of Birds Act, 1954, it is illegal to possess any such bird taken or killed in the United Kingdom; and if he will introduce legislation to prevent these imports.

My right hon. Friend already has powers under Section 7 of the Act to prohibit the import of live wild birds. On present information he is not satisfied that there is a case for exercising these powers in the manner suggested.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, although a number of these birds imported into this country are re-exported, some of them apparently stay, here? Will he look into it and watch the situation very carefully, particularly as regards birds which come here by air?

Yes. I have pointed out that my right hon. Friend has the powers at the moment, but on the information at present available he has not thought fit to exercise them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he has now considered the representations made to him with regard to the methods of obtaining and using confessions made in a police station; and if he will make a statement.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Epsom (Mr. Rawlinson) on 16th March last.

Is the Home Secretary aware that that reply was regarded as rather unsatisfactory in certain quarters? Is he aware that it indicated that the matter is being considered by the judges but has been withdrawn from the purview of the Royal Commission on the Police? Does not the Home Secretary realise that there is considerable public concern about this. While it may be appropriate that judges should consider matters relating to the rules of evidence, on the other hand the whole question of the circumstances in which confessions are obtained in police stations is a matter relating to police administration, and, I should have thought, essentially a matter which the present Royal Commission on the Police should investigate? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a number of representations have been made? Will the right hon. Gentleman please explain why the Commission is not being allowed to make an investigation?

Yes, Sir. Great trouble was taken before this decision was reached. I met the Chairman of the Royal Commission and the Lord Chief Justice and we came to the conclusion, with the agreement of the Chairman of the Commission, that it was a matter more suitable for the judges to examine. The Chairman of the Royal Commission has agreed to make available for the purposes of this review any material that is relevant which comes or has come to the Commission. This will be made available to the judges appointed by the Lord Chief Justice to make a thorough review of this matter. I believe that this review has been rather better received than the hon. Gentleman has intimated, and I believe that it would be the most thorough way of doing it.

Can the right hon Gentleman assure us that it will be within the purview of one or other of the bodies to look at the practice of the police to detain men without making a charge against them, which would seem, on the face of it, to be in contravention of our ideas about habeas corpus? Is he aware that if this matter were to fall between the two stools, something would be lost which ought to be retained, and that the situation is causing concern?

I have not had notice of that question. This investigation will cover the question of the interrogation of persons. The judges have given me an assurance that they will look into the question of interrogation before a man is accused——

Before he is charged?

—yes, before he is charged. That is to be looked at, and so it means that this investigation is really more important than would appear at first sight.

We all agree that this inquiry is very important, but can the right hon. Gentleman assure us that the result will be made public, in the same way as would the result of an inquiry by a Royal Commission; and that people who wish to give evidence and make representations to the judges will have the same facilities far doing so as they would have if the investigation were conducted by the Royal Commission?

I shall be glad to get in touch with the Lord Chief Justice on the point which the hon. Gentleman has raised relating to submissions, so that we can be sure that if they wish to be made there is a quarter where they can be received. I will certainly do that and I think that is the main answer to the supplementary questions asked by the hon. Gentleman.

The other question was whether the result will be made public.

I shall have to consult the Lord Chief Justice. This is a matter for the judges. The Rules are known today and, presumably, when any alterations are made, they will be made known.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make a statement on the attempted break out of prisoners at Wandsworth Gaol on 19th March.

At about 10.50 a.m. an Sunday, 19th March, seven out of ten prisoners exercising together suddenly ran towards a temporary corrugated iron wall screening a new building in course of erection. Presumably they intended to force their way through the sheeting and get over the prison wall by climbing the builder's scaffolding. Prompt and determined action by the four supervising officers foiled this attempt and the prisoners were removed to the cells. One officer was bruised on the face and hand, but I am glad to say that he was able to return to duty yesterday.

In view of the fact that this was the second outbreak from Wandsworth within a few days, is the Home Secretary satisfied that there is nothing about the conditions at Wandsworth which requires any special investigation?

Naturally, I caused special investigations to be made on hearing this news. I think one must say that the prisons, and Wandsworth in particular, are overcrowded at present. But I am satisfied that on this occasion there wore four officers on duty with ten prisoners, which is a reasonable precaution, and that the officers dealt with the situation in a satisfactory way. But one must say that at present the prisons are overcrowded. I have caused special investigations to be made with the Prison Commissioners.

In view of his last remark about the overcrowding of prisons, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that three prisoners broke away from Birmingham yesterday where three men are sleeping in one cell in conditions worse than ever in history? Cannot he do something about that, because I am sure that it must contribute to the danger? Cannot something be done to alter the position and make conditions less overcrowded?

I am hopeful that the prison building programme, which involves no less than thirty-one establishments, and has been accelerated over the last three years, will eventually help to cope with the situation. At present we are at the peak of the trouble and the most unsatisfactory feature is the number of instances in which three people are sleeping in one cell. That cannot but be regarded with revulsion by the general population.

Apart from the building of more new prisons which is very necessary, can the right hon. Gentleman say when he will be in a position to make a statement about the intentions of the Government with regard to the report of the Streatfeild Committee, which would in effect mean that fewer people were serving such long periods on remand in prison?

We found the Report of the Streatfeild Committee very valuable and we should like to take action on it at an early date. But first we must finish the legislation which we have in hand, and then we can proceed with further reforms.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will now state what steps are contemplated to control immigration from Commonwealth countries in view of the fact that the estimated net inward movement for the first two months of this year is over five times the figure for the corresponding period last year.

I have nothing at present to add to the statement I made in reply to the debate on 17th February.

Is not it reasonable to suppose that the publicity given recently to the possibility of controlling immigration has had the effect of stimulating the inflow, and that the longer action is delayed the worse the situation will become? May I ask my hon. and learned Friend to ask his right hon. Friend to treat this matter with a sense of urgency, as at the present rate we are facing the prospect of an influx of more than 100,000 of these immigrants this year?

Whether the debate had the effect which my hon. Friend suggests is a matter on which nobody can draw a firm conclusion. But my hon. Friend is right in saying that immigration is continuing at a very high rate. We are going ahead with our consideration of this matter. Meanwhile, my hon. Friend will have noticed that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is in the West Indies and having consultations with the West Indian Prime Ministers.

Will the Under Secretary ask his right hon. Friend to exercise his usual caution in this matter and not be stampeded by his hon. Friend? Does he realise—I am sure he does—that this is an exceedingly difficult question which cannot be settled in a day or two because there happen to be a few extra immigrants?

My right hon. Friend is never stampeded on any occasion.

Is not there enough evidence in the world today of the difficulty of multi-racial societies to give us cause to pause before we go any further in creating a multi-racial society here?

Can the Minister give the figures of emigration and immigration? Regarding the point raised by the hon. Member for Dorset, West (Mr. Wingfield Digby), is he aware that when we send English people abroad we help to create a multi-racial state in the places to which they go, and so a difficulty arises there as well?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will put down a Question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is in a position to make a statement with regard to the proposals of the Prison Commission to use part of the former Royal Air Force station at Pucklechurch; and, in particular, whether he will state when a final decision on this matter is likely to be announced

The proposal to build a remand centre on this site is under discussion with the local authorities. My right hon. Friend cannot forecast the course of these discussions, but the need for remand centres is urgent and there will be no delay on his part.

I accept the urgency of the matter. Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that inevitably there is a great deal of anxiety locally and that in particular there is anxiety that this R.A.F. station should be put to a good economic use?

I am sure that my right hon. Friend will bear in mind what has been said by my hon. Friend when he considers the result of these discussions.

Will the right hon. Gentleman be careful not to take any steps which would postpone further the building of remand centres? Since the enactment of the Criminal Justice Act, 1948, we have had as yet not one remand centre built in the whole of the country. Will he speed up rather than retard the building of them?

We have been fortunate in the acquisition of sites in recent months. The hon. Lady will understand the importance of carrying the local residents with us when we acquire sites for this purpose.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department why the Chinese student, Mr. Don Pan, studying at the University of Southampton, was deported from Southampton on 11th March.

Mr. Pan was informed on 26th October last that he was expected to end his stay in the United Kingdom by 15th November, 1960. He did not do so, and as my right hon. Friend was satisfied that his departure was conducive to the public good he was deported.

Is it not a sorry tale, following the recent spy trial, that the great "fish" got away for a long time and a poor little "minnow" is interrupted in his academic studies at a university where everybody said he was a likeable and harmless young man engaged in research? Is the Minister aware that the faculty and the students at Southampton University are deeply concerned about this? Is he aware that British universities have been the guardians of intellectual freedom for a long time? Cannot he reconsider this question?

I have nothing to add to what I have said except to assure the hon. Gentleman that my right hon. Friend came to his decision after the most careful consideration, and also to say that there are thousands of foreign students in this country who are most welcome here.

Like the hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Dr. King), I have received a letter from the president of the Students Union on this question of Mr. Don Pan. Is my hon. and learned Friend aware of the disquiet in the university, and could he not consider giving the two Members concerned an opportunity of judging for themselves the validity of this decision?

I am certainly willing to receiving any representations from any hon. Member of this House on any matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will give an assurance that he will not agree to the extradition to the Union of South Africa from Basutoland of Nyaka Tsulo.

Any application under the Fugitive Offenders Act for the return of a person from Basutoland to the Union of South Africa is a matter for the courts.

While appreciating what the hon. Gentleman says, may I ask him whether he will agree that this man is charged with a political offence, so that it is reasonable that he should not be extradited?

If anybody enters Basutoland and, on the ground that he has committed an offence, a warrant is issued for his arrest, that is a question for the courts. I am certain that we can rely on the courts of Basutoland to apply the ordinary British standards of justice, as they have always done.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that now that South Africa has announced her intention of leaving the Commonwealth, totally different considerations arise? Will he make sure that what he said about the Fugitive Offenders Act still applies? In any case, if this is a political offence, is not the hon. Gentleman aware that some administrative action may also be required?

This is certainly one of the matters which we shall be considering as a result of the event to which the hon. Gentleman has referred.

As the Answer is in the form of a table of figures, I will publish it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

While thanking the Minister in anticipation of studying that table, may I ask him whether, in view of the higher pupil-teacher ratio in the secondary-modern schools compared with other schools, and in view of other adverse conditions, he would agree that the one-third of secondary modern schools which last year submitted pupils for the G.C.E. are to be congratulated on the endeavours made and the results achieved, and do not the results show that if genuinely comprehensive facilities were provided in these schools a tremendous advance in educational standards could be made?

The advance being made by secondary modern schools is very remarkable. The hon. Member will see from the table that the number of candidates taking the G.C.E. was 39 per cent. higher in 1960 than in 1959.

asked the Minister of Education if he will state, for the latest date for which figures are available, the number of university students per 1,000 of the school population for each county

Is the Minister aware that it is extremely difficult to obtain information about G.C.E. results, and that this is a matter of general interest and importance? Will he consult with the examining bodies to arrange that information is made more generally available so that one may gain a better picture of what is happening in the examination?

I am considering the adequacy of these and other statistics.

While these achievements are very important—I agree with all that my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mr. Swingler) said—does the Minister agree that it would be a bad thing if we judged the triumph which is undoubtedly taking place in secondary modern education merely by what it does for the able children at the top? It would be a bad thing, would it not, if we used only the yardstick of the G.C.E. to measure the remarkable achievements of secondary modern education for the ordinary child?

I accept entirely what the hon. Member has said.

An analysis of all university students by area of residence is not available. I am sending the hon. Member details for each county and county borough of the number of students holding State Scholarships and of the number of students holding local education authority awards tenable at universities. The numbers of award holders also are expressed as a proportion of the population in the relevant age groups.

I am obliged to the Minister for supplying the information. Is he satisfied that equal treatment in this matter is being meted out by education authorities in general?

There have been, rightly, I think, some charges that the treatment has not been equal, but, with the coming into force of the new regulations for student awards, I think we shall have uniformity to a very large degree everywhere.

asked the Minister of Education what progress has been made in the provision of extended courses in modern schools.

Good progress has been made. An account of it is being prepared for inclusion in my Department's Annual Report for 1960, which will be published during the summer.

I thank the Minister for that Reply and I look forward to the Report. How far is progress retarded by a lack of teaching facilities?

I could not answer that with accuracy. Of course, I should like to have more teachers and, particularly, some more graduate teachers in the secondary schools.

asked the Minister of Education whether he will make a statement on the raising of the school-leaving age.

In the debate on this subject a year ago, I made a full statement of the Government's policy, to which I have nothing to add.

Am I right in assuming that it is the intention of the Government to make a statement before the next General Election? Does the Minister realise that it would be of considerable political importance to know when the statement is to be made?

If the hon. Gentleman will read what I said in the debate a year ago, he will find that I based everything on the supply of teachers. I said that I hoped that our measures for increasing the supply of teachers would enable us, before the end of this Parliament, to make a decision about the school-leaving age. I must first see whether or not the supply of teachers increases as we hope.

Is the Minister still hopeful? Does the hope he then expressed still obtain?

Yes, I am always hopeful.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is now in a position to make a statement on the financial review of the Colonial Development Corporation.

We have been able to make progress recently on this matter, and, although I am not in a position to make a statement today, my right hon. Friend looks forward to doing so very shortly after the Recess.

That is a very disappointing Answer. The Secretary of State undertook to make a statement before the Easter Recess. Does the hon. Gentleman realise that these delays make us more and more suspicious about the kind of pressure which is being exerted on his Department by the Treasury and that we shall, therefore, view his statement when it comes with very great care?

I hope that the hon. Member will do that. My right hon. Friend said that he would try to make a statement before the Recess. This has proved impossible. We look forward to the comments of the hon. Member when the statement is made.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he and the Forestry Commission were consulted about the intention of Economic Forestry, Limited to plant part of High House Moor, in the Dartmoor National Park, this autumn; and what action he took.

Yes, Sir. The company is negotiating with the Forestry Commission for a dedication agreement in the ordinary way, and my right hon. Friend does not propose to intervene.

Is the Minister aware that Economic Forestry, Limited, propose to plant some acres of High House Moor this autumn although the Dartmoor National Park Committee is utterly opposed to the proposal? This seeems to be a violation of the agreement reached last January. Will the Minister look into the matter?

I do not think that the acreage in question is really so very large. The hon. Member has referred to a voluntary agreement which was entered into recently between all the parties concerned. This was spoken about at length by my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Housing and Local Government last night, and I do not think that I can add to what he then said.

But will the hon. Gentleman take into account that this is a very exposed part of Dartmoor, and, therefore, it should be preserved as a part of the normal features of the landscape, not being violated by planting?

That, I think, is largely a matter of opinion.