asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has yet received the Traffic Census Report on Erskine Bridge; and when he expects to make a statement.

The report prepared jointly by the Dunbarton and Renfrew County Councils is being studied and my right hon. Friend hopes that he will shortly be able to discuss its contents with them and with the Clyde Navigation Trust.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that last summer vehicles were waiting one and a half to two hours before they could cross this ferry and that at the same time the census brought out the fact that almost 3,000 vehicles a day were taking alternative routes? This means further congestion in Glasgow. Will this matter be treated with some urgency?

Yes, Sir, we will get on with it as quickly as possible, but I think it right first to discuss it with the local authorities who prepared the report.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects work will commence on the new secondary school at Helensburgh.

Dunbarton Education Authority expects to start building work in September, 1963.

Nineteen sixty-three? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the school population at Helensburgh is growing very rapidly and that the position of both staff and pupils at the moment is quite intolerable? Does not the special circumstance warrant some special urgency in the matter?

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the priorities are a matter for the local authority. This is a big project, which requires a lot of preparatory work.

But, surely, two years for planning a new school is something extraordinary.

There has been difficulty over the site, as the hon. Gentleman knows.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland why no full-time research on brown trout and brown trout fisheries is being carried out; and whether he will now ensure that this research work is undertaken by the Freshwater Fisheries Laboratory at Pitlochry, Perthshire.

The present programme of the Freshwater Fisheries Laboratory at Pitlochry includes a number of projects on brown trout research.

Is the Minister aware that my information is quite different? Would he not agree that, in view of the very greatly increased demand for brown trout angling arising from the work of the Scottish Tourist Board, it would be very wrong that brown trout research should now be stopped? Will the hon. Gentleman take immediate steps to investigate why the research has been switched entirely to salmon and to restore and extend brown trout research at the Pitlochry Laboratory?

For the ten years to 1958 the Laboratory devoted most of its attention to brown trout. While it is now doing more work on salmon, a considerable amount of work is still being done on brown trout.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that the many angling clubs throughout Scotland—and many more people are engaged in angling with these clubs than in salmon fishing—are concerned that nobody is occupied full-time with brown trout research and that the energies of the Laboratory seem mainly to be devoted to salmon research?

It is true that the Laboratory is devoted mainly to that purpose, but it is always prepared to answer queries from angling clubs or give any help that it can to them.

Will my hon. Friend give an assurance that, in view of the increased importance of trout angling in the Highlands of Scotland, this research work will not be stopped?

I agree that it is very important. In view of what has been said by hon. Members on both sides, I will go into this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland by what date he now expects the Forth Road Bridge and its approach roads to be completed.

I have nothing to add to the reply which I gave to the right hon. Member on 15th November last.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the congestion is already starting at the bridge? Is there any possibility that the dates may be anticipated by better progress in the work?

I have seen speculation in the Press, but it would be rash to prophesy.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland under what conditions the Esso Petroleum Company, or their advertising agents, are permitted to reproduce pictures in the National Galleries of Scotland for advertising purposes.

A fee is charged for the use of photographic reproductions of which the copyright subsists in the trustees, and such reproductions must bear an acknowledgment to the National Galleries of Scotland. These conditions were complied with by the advertising agents for the Esso Petroleum Company.

Will the Joint Under-Secretary give us some details of the size of the fee? Would he agree that so long as the oil companies are permitted to spend vast sums on advertising at the expense of consumers, it is not a bad thing that they should do it by reproducing works of art? At least, the owners—in this case, Scotland—should jolly well get their money's worth. Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that they are?

The fixing of the fees is a matter for the trustees of the Gallery.

What are the fees?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when it is proposed that work will commence on the rheumatological unit for the west of Scotland.

The Western Regional Hospital Board has now submitted plans for this unit to my right hon. Friend's Department. The Board expects to start work in the spring of next year.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that this has been on the board since 1957 and that during all these years more than half the population of Scotland has been denied proper medical care in this disease? Could not the hon. Gentleman take steps to get it started before the spring of next year?

I have a good deal of sympathy with the hon. Lady. But I could not hold out much hope, because this is work in which a good deal of architectural alteration must be done and the plans are considerably more comprehensive than the original ones. For that reason, I am afraid that the work will take the time I have said.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when work will commence on the widening of the road bridge over the station at Shotts.

Owing to pressure on the funds for classified roads schemes my right hon. Friend will not be able to authorise grant on all the schemes which Lanarkshire County Council would like to carry out in 1961–62. Within the total which he will notify to them shortly he would, however, be prepared to accept this scheme for grant if they accord it priority over others.

Is the Minister aware that this scheme has been on the board since the early 'thirties, that this is a dangerous part of the road and that, apart from danger to pedestrians, it causes great harm when we are trying to attract industry to the area?

We are aware of those facts and will give the scheme priority if it is put forward.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now give details of the incident when last week a Danish frigate fired on the unarmed fishing vessel "Red Crusader", which he discussed with representatives of the Admiralty, the Lord Privy Seal and representatives of the Danish Government.

There is nothing material I can add to the details of the incident given by my right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal on 31st May; and, as he has since announced, Her Majesty's Government are in touch with the Danish Government about their proposal that there should be an impartial inquiry into the whole incident.

Does the Minister not realise that that Answer is entirely too vague about this very important matter to the fishing industry in Scotland? As the Secretary of State has had, or should have had, discussions with the Admiralty, the Lord Privy Seal and the Danish Government, does not the hon. Gentleman realise that it is undemocratic and wrong to keep secret the facts of this matter? Will he repair the damage that he has done in this way?

There have been a great many discussions, but, clearly, there are many matters in dispute. While the question of an inquiry is pending, I should prefer not to comment on any of these matters.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has yet decided to provide compensation to the owner, skipper and crew of the fishing vessel whose nets were seized by his fishery cruiser "Minna" on 9th October, 1960, and who were prosecuted by his Department, in view of the fact that the owner incurred loss by the seizure of his nets and the disbandment of his crew, was prevented from fishing for many weeks and was obliged to pay law costs for his defence before the prosecution was dropped in May, 1961, after many adjournments, full particulars of which case have been furnished to him; and if he will make a statement.

A claim has been intimated to my right hon. Friend's Department and is at present being investigated.

That, again, is far too vague. Does the Minister not realise that this is a glaring miscarriage of justice and that the North Sea should not be made a battleground between his ship and the fishing vessels there? It is wrong that a battleground should be made, first, in the North Sea and then in the criminal courts and then the prosecution discontinued without giving compensation to the owners of the fishing vessels which are damaged.

I could not accept all the comments of the hon. and learned Member. If, however, a claim is substantiated, damages will be paid.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he is taking to ensure that adequate financial assistance is given to the promotion of facilities for youth and community organisations in new towns.

The development corporations of the three new towns are authorised to contribute up to 50 per cent. of the capital cost of community facilities in the new towns, including those specially intended for young people. Also, in a recent circular on youth service my right hon. Friend announced a new scheme of capital grants to assist local voluntary youth organisations whether in new towns or elsewhere.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary of State aware that one of the difficulties, in a new town, such as East Kilbride, where many organisations—for example, the Churches—are doing a splendid job, is the difficulty of starting up an effective youth organisation and that there is trouble in qualifying for the capital grant under the Secretary of State's scheme? Could the Minister consider giving capital grants to new projects where they seem worth while and likely to succeed?

I understand that in East Kilbride new efforts which have been made to set up suitable organisations are progressing favourably.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the increased and increasing financial difficulties of local authorities; and whether he will therefore initiate an official inquiry into the whole problem of local taxation, with particular reference to the feasibility of a local income tax.

No, Sir, my right hon. Friend does not accept that difficulties are imposed by the present system which would necessitate such an inquiry. The whole subject of local government finance was examined a few years ago, including the feasibility of a local income tax.

Is the hon. Gentleman as much in touch with local authorities as his Answer would seem to assume? Is he not aware that many of us, certainly on this side of the House, are getting letters from local authorities drawing attention to their financial difficulties? Why on earth cannot the Department set up some kind of investigation into this problem? The solution suggested in the Question was recommended some years ago by the Institute of Public Administration, a non-party organisation which took an objective view of the matter. Will not the hon. Gentleman consider looking into it again?

As a result of revaluation, where some values go up more than average, there is bound to be a reduction in the amount of equalisation grant which is given to the local authority. My right hon. Friend proposes, however, to review these grant arrangements at a later stage when he has full information of the effect of revaluation.

Would my hon. Friend not agree that the financial problems which may face some local authorities would be greatly eased if those local authorities were to introduce a sliding-scale system of rents?

I dare say that that might make some difference.

In view of his reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, West (Mr. W. Hamilton), will the Joint Under-Secretary tell the House just how many representations he has had from Scottish local authorities about their increased financial difficulties? I had a letter yesterday from a constituent who had taken up this very point.

I could not do that without notice, but I would be willing to look into the matter and write to the hon. Member.

Will not the hon. Gentleman take steps to relieve the local authorities by introducing rerating of agriculture in view of the fact that its subsidy total is higher than its wages bill?

That is another point.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what redevelopment plans have been submitted to him by local authorities or other interested bodies in respect of the Forth and Clyde canal.

None, Sir. I should make it clear that the proposed legislation would provide not for the abandonment of the Canal by the British Transport Commission but for the end of its obligation to keep it open for navigation.

I do not dissent from the decision to close the canal to navigation, but will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the second part of his Answer, namely, that the canal should not merely be abandoned and become a derelict waterway and a menace to children, is most important? What plans does his Department have for the development of this canal, either for roads or as a boating amenity? What financial assistance will it give to local authorities if they wish to redevelop it?

None of the responsibilities of the B.T.C. for the maintenance of the canal other than for navigation has been reduced. The future varied uses of the canal is a matter, in the first instance, for the local authorities to take up with the Commission. I understand that certain discussions are at present in progress.

Before this decision was made, did the hon. Gentleman have any conversations with the fishermen's associations which are concerned with the use of this canal? If so, were they agreeable to the closing of the canal?

They gave evidence to the Bowes Committee about this matter and it was taken into consideration. It was felt that the advantages outweighed the disadvantages.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received in connection with the decision to close the Forth and Clyde canal.

My right hon. Friend has received two representations from private individuals in Oxford and Argyll.

Is it the intention to spend some annual amount on the maintenance of the canal so that its disuse may not constitute a public menace in the future?

If the hon. Member will look, I think he will see that I dealt with that in reply to a previous Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the increasing arrears of cases awaiting trial in the Glasgow sheriff courts and the consequent inconvenience caused to witnesses, police and law agents; and what proposals he has to effect improvements.

My right hon. Friend is aware of these difficulties and he hopes to arrange very shortly for the appointment of an additional sheriff-substitute for the Glasgow Court.

Will the Joint Under-Secretary of State convey to his right hon. Friend the great dissatisfaction that there is about the administration of the courts in Glasgow, the frustration and misspent energy in time and money? Will the hon. Gentleman not merely consider the appointment of other procurators-fiscal, but have a look at the whole machinery so that lawyers can make proper appointments in order to deal with their business?

Some additional accommodation has recently been made available, but we are well aware of the delays.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will state the cost to the latest available date of paying the £100 gratuity to retired teachers who have returned to the profession.

To 15th June, 1961, expenditure on the special allowances for retired teachers over age 65 who have returned to teaching amounts to £38,700.

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that these figures spotlight the lamentable failure of this paltry payment to induce more teachers back into the profession? Since the Government are not prepared to pay full pension and full pay, and in the light of the appalling shortage of teachers in Scotland, would he not consider making a realistic approach to the problem by increasing this payment to something in the region of £400?

This is paid in addition to salary, and we feel that it has proved a useful inducement up to the present time.

Can the Joint Under-Secretary of State tell us how many of the teachers who returned to the profession and took their gratuity still remain in teaching?

Not without notice. At present, 389 are drawing the allowance.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if it is his policy to provide accommodation in psychiatric units attached to general hospitals for patients suffering from mental or nervous illness; and if he will ensure that all consultant psychiatrists appointed to general hospitals have beds available to them for the treatment of in-patients either in the general hospital or at some convenient mental hospital.

My right hon. Friend's policy is to make the most effective use both of the specialised hospitals and psychiatric units in general hospitals. While in principle it is desirable that consultants should have beds to which they can admit patients for treatment under their care, the duties to be carried out by any particular consultant are for the regional hospital board concerned to determine.

The hon. Gentleman's reply seems to suggest that there is a difference between the policy in Scotland and that in England. Is it not a fact that the Minister of Health has made it clear that it is his policy to have psychiatric units attached to all general hospitals in the next few years? Is that the policy in Scotland? Is it not highly desirable that psychiatric units should be attached to general hospitals, and especially to large general hospitals? When does he expect this to happen?

In addition, will the hon. Gentleman call to the attention of hospital boards the desirability of making beds for inpatients available to consultant psychiatrists in their employment?

Of course, where new general teaching hospitals are provided, this sort of accommodation will also be provided. However, in general, we in Scotland are in a rather different position from that of England in that the majority of the Scottish mental hospitals are of reasonable size and are conveniently placed for the population which they serve. I hope that that satisfies the point raised in the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question.

In answer to the second part of his supplementary question about having beds available for consultants, the only case of difficulty which has arisen was in the Western Regional Hospital Board, and the Secretary of State's views about it have been made known to the Board.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that what he has just said about the system in Scotland is in direct conflict with what he said when last Session he was piloting through the Mental Health (Scotland) Bill, which is now an Act of Parliament? We understood that under that Measure it was the policy of the Government to replace many of the existing mental hospitals by providing the necessary psychiatric units in our general hospitals?

Where they are needed they will be provided. I was trying to point out that the position in Scotland is rather different from that in England, because many of the Scottish mental hospitals are well placed for the population which they seek to serve

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will consult with the Scottish Gas Board regarding the improvement of gas appliances and the production of new safety measures to reduce the numbers of deaths from gassing, which reached a total of 196 last year.

In association with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Power, my right hon. Friend is already in close touch with the Gas Council in an endeavour to improve the safety of gas appliances.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many deaths from gassing are accidental and mainly concern old people? Will he try to induce the Scottish Gas Board to fit safety gas taps in all places where there are old people who are frail and who, perhaps, go to sleep while the gas is still on and gas themselves accidentally? This is a very important matter. Will my hon. Friend "have a go" at it?

I understand that the Gas Board inspects appliances in the homes of elderly people. I shall certainly ask my right hon. Friend to draw its attention to the matter.

is the Joint Under-Secretary of State aware that very much more needs to be done in this matter? As the hon. Member for South Angus (Sir J. Duncan) said, old people have succumbed to gas poisoning, but is the hon. Gentleman aware that far too many gas appliances are too accessible to children and can be turned on too easily? Children have died in the home from this when adults have not been present.

I am aware of the danger, but I think it is fair to say that in the last year there was a reduction of 15 in the number of accidental deaths, which seems to show that what the Gas Council is doing is having some effect.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many staff have been appointed to the new training course for social workers at the Scottish College of Commerce, and at what salary scales; how these scales compare with those of staff recruited for the similar new courses in England; what liaison there will be with the appropriate academic staff of Glasgow University; whether it is intended at a future date that the course should embrace persons other than students in child care work and what consultations concerning the course have taken place with the professional associations of social workers.

The course will be conducted by the existing staff, with the addition of a social case work tutor appointed on a scale of £800 to £1,270 per annum. The appointments to be made in England have been advertised at salary scales of £1,370 to £1,550 for a lecturer and £700 to £1,150 for an assistant. The course is one of training for general social work, and only some of the students are expected to enter child care work. It was planned by a study group which my right hon. Friend appointed to consider the Younghusband Report on Social Workers, and which included representatives of the professional associations concerned. Advice was also obtained from Glasgow University School of Social Study and Training, representatives of which are being invited to serve on an advisory committee for the course that the Governors are appointing.

Would the Joint Under-Secretary of State agree that it is clearly far from satisfactory that in England the courses will be administered by staff which are much more highly paid than the social case workers being employed specifically for this purpose in Glasgow? Should not the whole matter be looked at again? Would he also agree that it is unlikely that the existing staff at the Scottish College of Commerce would have the necessary background for this kind of training? In addition, would he have direct consultations with the professional associations representing social workers in Scotland and ask their views on these matters and on the methods of selection of students for the course?

I think that the governors of the college have been advised by a highly expert selection committee—I can give the hon. Lady the names of the members of it afterwards if she wishes them—and they also have expert advice from an advisory committee. I think that the course is an experimental one and adjustments can be made in the light of experience as we go along.

There seems to have been a great deal of expert advice here, but is the hon. Gentleman aware that those in Scotland who are interested in this matter, and who were very interested in the Younghusband Report, cannot see how the present staff of this college has either the background, the training or the knowledge to train these men and women who are to do such an important social job in the community? Will not he and his right hon. Friend look at this matter again?

The selection committee was satisfied, and that is a most authoritative body.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland on what grounds he rejected the findings of the local public inquiry that Mr. Adam Barbour should be allowed planning permission to establish a petrol filling station at his cafe at Auchenreoch, Castle Douglas.

Because my right hon. Friend considered that more weight ought to have been given to the dangers arising from increased traffic movements on the access to a fast stretch of trunk road.

If there is so much traffic on the road, does my hon. Friend think it a good idea not to have a petrol station for sixteen miles on one side of the road between the outskirts of Castle Douglas and Dumfries, which means that all vehicles travelling on the road will have to cross the oncoming traffic to get petrol? Is he also aware that, amongst other distinguished witnesses, the accident inspector gave evidence for Mr. Barbour, and should not my hon. Friend give more weight to the Commissioner who heard the evidence and saw the ground and not substitute his own decisions?

I have naturally a great deal of sympathy for the hon. Gentleman and his constituent, but the fact remains that one must have regard to the desirability of avoiding anything that is likely to lead to an increase in the risk of accidents.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland in view of the numbers of foreign trawlers fishing in the Moray Firth and Firth of Clyde, which are at present denied to United Kingdom trawlers, what action he proposes taking in the matter in order to assist United Kingdom fishermen.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now consider taking steps to close the Moray Firth and the Minch to foreign trawlers.

I have nothing to add to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave on 18th May to the hon. and learned Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hector Hughes).

This is extremely disappointing. Is the Under-Secretary not aware of what is happening in regard to the fishing grounds throughout the world? Does he not appreciate that these foreign trawlers fish in these grounds that the Government deny to British fishermen? In view of all that is happening, has not the hon. Gentleman anything more to say? Is not the Government even considering what their policy is to be in regard to these grounds? Does he appreciate that if he does not do something soon, the fishermen will do it for him?

Of course, I realise the difficulties here, but I can only repeat what my right hon. Friend said: that the Government are keeping fishery limits under review in the light of all relevant factors.

It is quite ridiculous that foreign vessels should be allowed to fish these grounds and that our own fishermen should be denied them. Cannot my hon. Friend treat this matter with far more urgency?

I am afraid that I cannot add anything to what I have said.

Is not the Under-Secretary aware that a week ago I got from his hon. Friend a Parliamentary Answer which showed that on 147 occasions last year foreign trawlers, French and Belgian, were observed fishing in these prohibited areas? What is the point of making the observation unless action is to be taken? Have the Government even made representations to the French and Belgian Governments about poaching in these areas?

These trawlers cannot land their catches in this country for two months after.

Is it not the fact that the judgment of the Scottish Court of Session in 1905 made it illegal for foreign trawlers to fish within the Moray Firth, and should not a decision of the 12 judges of the Court of Session be upheld?

While that is perfectly true, Her Majesty's Government have not the power to arrest foreign vessels on the high seas.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he is taking to protect the fish stocks in the Moray Firth and Firth of Clyde.

The measures taken by Her Majesty's Government, in concert with the other signatories of the Over-fishing Convention of 1946 to prevent overfishing, apply generally to the areas referred to in the Question, and consist of regulations governing the mesh of fishing nets and the minimum sizes of white fish that may be landed. Her Majesty's Government take every opportunity of seeking the agreement of other countries to the introduction of more effective conservation measures, and took a lead in the negotiations for the North-East Atlantic Fisheries Convention of 1959. This provides machinery for more comprehensive measures, but has not yet entered into force.

Arising out of that Answer, did not the hon. Gentleman state in reply to Question No. 20 that these fish could not be landed in this country? As a consequence of that, neither he nor the Government can check what fish are being landed in the countries to which they are taken, and our own fishermen assert that this trawling is destroying the fishing grounds and fishing beds in these areas. What we want from the Government is action to protect these grounds from the catching of small and immature fish, which will eventually destroy the fishing grounds altogether.

I have already said that this is a difficult matter, but the number of foreign trawlers fishing in these areas is not large, and they usually come in only at certain seasons—

I know.

There has undoubtedly been a decline in haddock stocks and whiting stocks recently, but I am advised that this is mainly due to natural causes.

As the Minister has just said, this is a difficult matter, but is it not obvious from his Answer to Questions Nos. 20 and 22 that it is far too difficult for the Scottish Office, which is unable to solve the relevant problems? Will he ask his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to ask the Prime Minister to appoint a Minister of Cabinet rank devoted entirely to the distribution—

Order. This string of requests from Minister to Minister is out of order.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory reply given to this Question, and in view of the importance of this industry to Scotland, I intend to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much wheat of the 1960 crop remains to be moved off farms in Scotland; and how this compares with the situation in the middle of June last year.

Certificates of sale up to 10th June account for 110,000 tons, which is some 26,000 tons less than the estimated total saleable production. The comparable figure at the same time last year was 21,000 tons. Certificates of sale, however, may be submitted up to four weeks after sale and delivery, and these figures will overstate the present position of farm stocks.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the large imports of grain, which are a feature of this summer and were not a feature of last summer, are making it well-nigh impossible to move wheat off farms in Scotland at the moment? Is he also aware of the anxieties farmers feel about the low prices being received, which will add to the deficiency payments and be a burden on the taxpayer in the future?

I am well aware of these facts, but I do not think that they come into consideration in this Question.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that these farmers are greatly concerned about what is likely to happen to them if we join the Common Market—[An HON. MEMBER: "Oh."] Do I understand that groan from an hon. Member opposite as agreeing to that point of view?

It is possible that the hon. Member may have a lawful opportunity to discuss that matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what estimate he has made of the cost of the deficiency payments on the 1961 wheat crop, assuming a similar yield per acre to that estimated in 1960, if the present price of £15 per ton persists.

If the average United Kingdom market price per ton for the 1961 wheat crop were £15 throughout the 1961–62 cereal year the cost of wheat deficiency payments in Scotland would be some £1,650,000.

Can my hon. Friend confirm that that increase, if it took place, would be a very substantial one compared with that of last year? Would it be 100 per cent. or 50 per cent., or 75 per cent.? If I was out of order in asking my hon. Friend on my last Question about the anxiety of farmers, would he take it at this stage that there is considerable anxiety over what might be a tremendous burden on the Exchequer, which is reflected in the concern on the face of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor?

I certainly understand the anxiety. As to the figure, the estimate for the current year is £1,025,000.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the replies affecting farmers, I wish to give notice that I shall raise this matter at the earliest opportunity.

Would the hon. Member be a little more precise so that we may know how the rule may work? To which Question and Answer does the hon. Member relate his notice?

To the last.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what revised estimate he has made of the cost of the oat subsidy in Scotland in 1961–62 if the present price of 13s. a cwt. remains.

If the price realised in the United Kingdom for the 1961 oat crop fell to an average of 13s. per cwt., the total subsidy in Scotland would be £8·5 million.

Is not that figure rather large? Taking all the cereals together, it would seam that from a present figure of about £60 million they will go to over £100 million in total, which will add an enormous amount to the taxpayers' bill. Will my hon. Friend take up with the Government at the highest level the whole question of anti-clumping and protective measures to see that a reasonable price is obtained for cereals in Scotland, particularly oats, so as to avoid this burden on the taxpayer?

The figure is certainly alarming, but so, too, is the figure quoted in my hon. Friend's Question. I hope that it will prove to be only a hypothetical calculation.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the shortage of beds in maternity hospitals and general hospitals, respectively, in Paisley.

The Western Regional Hospital Board is at present undertaking a survey of the need for additional beds in general hospitals in the eastern part of Renfrewshire, including Paisley. I would prefer to await the outcome of this survey before venturing an estimate. The number of maternity beds required in the same area, on the scale recommended by the Maternity Services Review Committee, is about fifty.

As the hon. Gentleman is aware, there is a long-standing grievance in Paisley and district about the shortage of hospital beds, and in view of the fact that he has been aware of this shortage for many years, what steps does he propose to take to meet the shortage?

I think the best thing to do is to wait till the regional hospital boards have finished their survey and then see what the position is.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many patients are awaiting admission to hospitals in Paisley; and what is the average period of waiting.

The total number—including non-urgent cases and those who have been waiting for only a few days—is about 850, against an annual turnover of about 7,500. Average waiting times are not readily available but I am writing to the hon. Member with details of waiting times in different specialities.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that this is an indication that there is a need for new hospital accommodation in Paisley and district? What proposals has he for building a new hospital in this district?

I am advised that the general waiting period in Paisley and district is not unduly long compared with that in other areas.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will state his revised estimate of the cost of supporting the barley crop in Scotland for 1961–62, in view of the present depressed state of the market.

The cost of deficiency payment for the 1961 barley crop depends upon the average U.K. market price during the year from 1st July next. It is too early to make any useful revision of the estimated cost of supporting this crop in Scotland.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the depressing effect on the barley market of barley imports, and is he aware further that barley imports during the first four months of this year were running at twice the rate of the comparable period last year and in recent weeks have risen even further?

I understand that the National Farmers' Union yesterday submitted an application to my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade under the Customs Duties (Dumping and Subsidies) Act, to which my right hon. Friend will be giving urgent consideration.

In view of the depression which exists among farmers who grow barley, would the Under-Secretary of State give us an indication of his long-term plans and tell us how he proposes to protect the barley growers from foreign competition?

Not in Question and Answer here.

Has the hon. Gentleman any intention of having a sliding scale for farming subsidies so that the better-off farmers will not get them?

I think that the hon. Gentleman had better put that Question down.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to complete his review of the provisions for legal aid in criminal proceedings.

I am not in a position to add to the replies given by my right hon. Friend to the Questions asked on 13th June by the hon. Member for Dumbartonshire, West (Mr. Steele).

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that they were most unsatisfactory Answers? Surely he can give us some indication when he expects to complete his review? Is he not aware that the present system is in great danger of breaking down because of the lack of money? Is it not intolerable that Scotland should be placed in this position when England has been placed in a much better one long ago? Will not he do something about it?

Yes, but it is a very difficult question. The hon. Member will realise that the Guthrie Committee was not unanimous over the difficult question of financial eligibility for legal aid.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will make a further statement concerning the future of Moray House Demonstration School.

My right hon. Friend has informed the Governors of Moray House College of Education that he approves the closure of the Secondary Department of the Demonstration School on condiiton that it is closed by stages, so that pupils already in the Department may complete their schooling there. He has also expressed his hope that when the present serious difficulties of accommodation in the College have been overcome the Governors will consider the possibility of reopening the Secondary Department of the School.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has now brought the Rivers (Scotland) Pollution Act, 1951, into full operation.

The Act is in operation throughout Scotland except for the North and South Esks (in Angus and Kincardineshire), and for tidal waters other than those of the River Forth. An Order giving the local authorities concerned jurisdiction over the Esks is now being made. A draft Order for the Clyde estuary will be published as soon as the Clyde River Purification Board are in a position to operate the Act there.

In view of the fact that the Under-Secretary of State tells us that the Act is now in operation throughout nearly the whole of Scotland, why is it that most of the Scottish rivers are still dirtier than they were before the coming into operation of the Act? Can he say what he is doing to get river boards to do the job for which they were appointed?

I should not like to accept that the rivers are necessarily dirtier than they were before.

Yes.

I recognise and agree with the hon. Member that it is a great problem involving a lot of technical difficulties. My right hon. Friend's Department is pressing the various river purification boards to get on with it as fast as they can.

He has bad ten years to deal with these technical difficulties. Can the hon. Member promise that in the next ten years, if he still has the power, he will solve them?

I will certainly promise to do the best I can. I can encourage the hon. Member by saying that we expect a report from the Clyde River Purification Board towards the end of the year—

Which year?

This year—and my right hon. Friend hopes to publish a draft Order soon thereafter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent he will give financial assistance to Scottish county councils in order to provide for special educational cruises for schoolchildren.

Expenditure by education authorities on such cruises is accepted as relevant expenditure for the assessment of general grant.

Can the hon. Gentleman assure us, in view of the very successful results of these educational cruises and in view of the fact that some of the progressive education authorities like Ayrshire are contemplating hiring a liner for their own schoolchildren, that he will give every possible encouragement to those local authorities?

We have been doing so.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is now in a position to indicate the location of another new town to deal with Glasgow's overspill population.

My right hon. Friend has at the moment nothing to add to the reply which he gave to the hon. Member on this subject on 19th May, but hopes to be able to make a statement in the near future.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the need for this new town is not in dispute, but for the past two years I have been seeking to get some indication from him as to its location? Why this unwarrantable delay? What does he mean when he says, "My right hon. Friend will give a statement shortly"?

I mean exactly what I say.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the Reid Committee on Registration of Title to Land was appointed; and when he expects to receive their report.

The Committee was appointed in September, 1959. I cannot say when it will submit its report.

Has the hon. Gentleman consulted the Chairman of the Committee to find out when he is likely to produce the report?

I know Lord Reid and his colleagues are well aware of the anxiety that they should produce the report with the minimum of delay.

I asked the hon. Gentleman, has he consulted the Chairman of the Committee?

This is a very difficult matter. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] We do not want to urge Lord Reid and his Committee, who are well aware of the need to get on with the job, to do it in a way which they consider unsatisfactory.

Will not the hon. Gentleman answer the question? Has he consulted Lord Reid or has he not? Why cannot the hon. Gentleman answer the question?

I have no knowledge of recent consultation with Lord Reid.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that there has been a considerable increase in drift net fishing for salmon within Scottish territorial waters, and that operators of stake nets have organised private patrols which have intercepted boats within one mile off-shore; and what new measures he has now decided to take to ensure the maintenance of law and order.

I am aware that there has been a recent increase in drift netting for salmon off the Tay and in the Montrose area. Fishing for salmon within one mile of low water mark in such areas without the written consent of the person having the fishing rights is a statutory offence and is a matter for the District Fishery Board and the police in which my right hon. Friend has no authority to intervene.

As it would appear from reports in the Press and elsewhere that there is a state of piracy and civil war going on just now on the East Coast of Scotland, would my hon. Friend redouble his efforts to bring an end to this scandalous state of the law?

I am quite sure that we can leave this matter to the District Fishery Boards and to the police.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, since invisible earnings, largely from oil and shipping, fell in the last two years from £229 million to £22 million, and Government expenditure overseas has been on the increase, what steps he is taking to reduce overseas expenditure, especially military expenditure which amounts to over £200 million and so help the balance of payments situation; and if he will make a statement.

The serious decline in net invisible earnings is a matter for concern, and I am reviewing with my colleagues ways of reducing Government expenditure overseas.

How big an increase in invisibles does my right hon. and learned Friend expect this year? Does he not think it reasonable to let the Germans defend their own country and pay the expense themselves?

The whale question of what used to be called "support costs" in Germany is a matter which is under constant discussion and consideration. As to the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I do not anticipate a substantial increase in net earnings from invisibles this year.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is aware that the recent increases in price of bread, beer and tobacco are evidence of growing inflationary pressures, and may themselves encourage further wage demands and thus endanger the stability of sterling; what new steps he is taking to prevent further increases in Government expenditure and to eliminate inflation; and if he will make a statement.

Recent events, including those to which my hon. Friend has referred, have borne out the anxiety expressed in my Budget speech about the rising pressure on costs and prices. My Budget proposals as a whole were designed to restrain this pressure and the new powers in the Finance Bill if granted will enable me to go further if the need arises. The level of Government expenditure has been a matter of continuing concern to me and the long-term review of which I spoke in my Budget speech is now well advanced. In the shorter term I shall make the maximum administrative economies possible. As regards incomes and prices, responsibility does not rest exclusively with the Government but is shared by bath sides of industry. In general I propose to proceed on the lines laid down in my Budget speech.

In view of the obvious strain on sterling which will come this autumn and the cross-pressure from further increases in wages and salaries, would my right hon. and learned Friend not try to get both sides of industry to made an appeal for restraint? [Laughter.] Sir Stafford Cripps would not have laughed at a question like that. In order to reinforce the pressure that I am sure he would like to bring on employers and the unions, would my right hon. and learned Friend start on Government expenditure and set a good example?

There are a number of points raised in my hon. Friend's speech. As for the comparison with Sir Stafford Cripps, there is one precedent which I am certain we shall not follow. As to the business of increasing pressures on sterling, it is not the immediate situation which is causing anxiety but the long-term trends, and it is the long-term trends that we have to get right. I have dealt with the point on Government expenditure in a previous Answer. As for a conference with both sides of industry, my hon. Friend has put forward that suggestion before, but I am perfectly certain that both sides are aware of the considerations put forward and that it is vital if we are to get the long-term trends right that we keep our costs on a competitive basis.

In view of the present state of the economy, is it not obvious that the Chancellor's Surtax cuts were disastrous folly? Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman not realise that, having made these cuts, be has no moral authority now to ask for wage restraint?

The right hon. Gentleman is quite wrong in suggesting that there have been cuts in Surtax. There has been no cut whatever. Nothing will have any consequence in that field until January, 1963. That is the time, and the right hon. Gentleman knows quite well that the reason for those cuts was to stop a disincentive to the effort and initiative which I believe are necessary to get us out of our present situation.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many people have passed through Her Majesty's Customs at the Port of Folkestone, both inwards and outwards, during each of the last three years.

With permission, I will circulate the figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Does my right hon. and learned Friend realise that the Customs facilities at Folkestone have not been increased or altered for a number of years? Is he aware that they are a disgrace as experienced by people visiting this country? Would my right hon. and learned Friend arrange for them to be inspected so that he can see to it that his staff is working under satisfactory conditions?

The responsibility for this is that of the British Transport Commission, and I know that the Commission and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport are examining the matter urgently.