asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what was the total of eggs imported from Poland during the past twelve months; and what were the corresponding imports during each of the previous two years.

In the year ended 30th June, 1961, 581,000 boxes of eggs were imported from Poland compared with 197,000 boxes in 1959–60 and 141,000 boxes in 1958–59.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that these eggs, which sell in this country at about 2s. 6d. a dozen, sell in Poland at about 6s. a dozen? In view of the fact that imports of Polish eggs into this country have increased some ninety times since 1958–59, will my right hon. Friend take steps to control their import forthwith?

I think that this has to be set against the total supplies available on the market. The total imports of Polish eggs this year, even at the higher figure, were only 1–7 per cent. of the total supplies available. As my hon. Friend will be aware, when an application was made to my right hon. Friend by the National Farmers' Union and by the Egg Marketing Board, my right hon. Friend took the view that there was a margin of dumping in the price, but that the other two legs on which the application had to stand did not meet the necessary qualifications. He said that, had imports continued, they would have done. They have not continued to any great extent, and this week no boxes are being imported.

Does my right hon. Friend's Answer imply that if there is an increase in the production of English eggs he accepts that as a reason for us importing still more foreign eggs, because he expressed his Answer in terms of the proportions to the total number of eggs available?

Perhaps I expressed myself badly. The thing is that the total egg production is less this year. Imports are consequently up, and imports of Polish eggs form part of that increase.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will take steps to prohibit descriptive printing and labels on butter which imply that wholly or partially imported butter is wholly home produced.

It is already an offence under the Merchandise Marks Act, 1887, to apply to any goods a false description as to the place or country in which the goods are produced. In addition, the Food and Drugs Act, 1955, makes it an offence to label a food with a false description.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I have studied with great care the Answer which he has given to certain of my hon. Friends on this matter? Will not he now cut through the whole bureaucratic and administrative tangle and take steps to make new regulations of a simple character which will give proper protection both to the British producer and to the consumer and avoid any chance of misleading the public or anybody else?

I do not think that the situation today is very complicated inasmuch that it is open to anyone to prosecute under the Merchandise Marks Act. It is a common informer Act and anyone can prosecute under it. That remedy is available in the courts.

Is it not the fault of this now out-of-date legislation that the onus for taking legal action falls upon the customer, who probably does not want to get involved in legal proceedings? Should not there be a duty on the Minister to take action when anything of this type comes along?

It need not be done only by the customer; the county council or the Milk Marketing Board can do it under the Merchandise Marks Act.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what recent consultations he has had on the possibility of sending part of Great Britain's surplus dairy products, especially milk, to the under-developed countries of the world where malnutrition is widespread.

None, Sir. This country is a large importer of dairy products. Milk in excess of current needs for our liquid market is already processed. Assistance by Her Majesty's Government to under-developed countries is made available in the form of grants, loans, technical assistance and educational and training facilities and not by way of contributions in kind.

While I recognise the substance of the hon. Gentleman's Answer, may I ask whether he is aware that the trend in the country is towards the production of surpluses, particularly of milk? Does he not regard it as highly regrettable that we do not allow this production to be increased so that we are able to make some contribution towards helping millions of our friends in other parts of the world?

The hon. Member's Question refers to milk. I think that he is confusing two things—the increase in production beyond the needs of the liquid market and the total need for dairy products. We are still a very long way from meeting all those needs.

Is it not my hon. Friend's case that the Government ought to increase production all round, which has not been done, and then, if there are surpluses, to consider my hon. Friend's suggestion?

That goes far beyond the Question. In all these things, costs of production and prices have also to be considered.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he has now received the report of the Committee inquiring into the incidence and cost of fowl pest.

No, Sir, I understand that the Committee is making excellent progress on this difficult study, but I doubt if its report will be ready before the end of the year.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that this has become a most urgent matter, that fowl pest, apparently in a sub-acute form, is very widely established, and that slaughtering the birds is costing the Exchequer between £3 million and £4 million a year and is not getting us anywhere? Should we not hasten the advice from this Committee and then take action fairly quickly?

I am anxious to get the report as soon, as I can, but, as my hon. Friend knows, the Committee is taking evidence very widely, both in this country and abroad. I agree that the sooner we can get the report and reach any decision which may flow from it, the better.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a statement on the working of Section 3 of the Agriculture (Safety, Health and Welfare Provisions) Act, 1956, regarding the provision of suitable sanitary conveniences and washing facilities on farms.

This Section empowers sanitary authorities to serve notices on employers of agricultural workers requiring them to provide suitable and sufficient sanitary conveniences, and gives my right hon. Friend similar power to require the provision of washing facilities. A number of notices concerning lavatories have, I understand, been served by sanitary authorities. The Ministry's safety and wages inspectors are required to see that employers are providing satisfactory washing facilities and so far it has not been necessary for my right hon. Friend to serve any notices.

That is all very well and interesting. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, despite those instructions, there are few farms with either sanitary facilities or washing arrangements for the farm workers? This is 1961 and the situation on the farms would not be tolerated in any other industry. Is it not time that the Minister got stuck into this matter to see that the Regulations are carried out? With many people who work on farms handling food, in the interests of hygiene and common sense alone is it not important that the Regulations should be carried out?

The hon. Member does not give a fair picture. We now have improvements in piped water supply all over the countryside, even in the most remote areas, and the provision of proper washing and sanitary facilities is very much easier than it was a little time ago. I cannot speak for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government, who has served a number of notices in certain cases, but we are hoping to secure compliance with these requirements without recourse to serving notices, except where it is clear that employers are making no attempt to comply. I am glad to say that no such cases have yet been reported.

Despite what the hon. Gentleman said, legislation was provided. My hon. Friend represents agricultural workers through his union and he knows these conditions. All he is saying is that Where there are black spots, as there still are, the Government should see that they are cleared up. Why not action now?

I tried to give the impression that we were making progress, which cannot be judged entirely by the number of notices served. I am glad to say that progress is being made all over the country.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he is satisfied with the operation of Pant IV of the Agriculture Act, 1947, in giving smallholders, in present conditions, an opportunity of becoming farmers on their own account; and if he will make a statement of his policy on this matter.

Under the Act, some 10,000 full-time holdings are provided by smallholdings authorities, most of the occupiers being former farm workers. These give a useful avenue of advancement for men of initiative. I have no proposals for amending the Act at this juncture.

Will not my right hon. Friend agree that the conditions prevailing today are very different from those when the scheme was set up? In those circumstances, would not he further agree that the time has come when it would do no harm for him to have a look at the basis on which these schemes are administered?

The fact that there are 10,000 smallholdings across the country and that a hundred smallholders moved to farms from their holdings in the last year or so proves that, as they stand, smallholdings provide a valuable addition to our agricultural life.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is reluctance to move on to larger farms, even when they are offered, which is having the effect of preventing other people from below from moving into the smallholdings? Is he aware that this is becoming quite a problem?

That is not the experience of which I am told by the smallholdings authorities. It is more the fact that the popularity of farming today is such that so few farms are coming on to the market for letting that it is hard for those on smallholdings to get farms.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is aware that food prices in Great Britain today are higher than in some Continental countries, despite the fact that £250 millions a year in subsidies is paid to the farmers; and whether, in view of this fact, he will consider urgent action to investigate the system of food distribution in the United Kingdom.

The results of these international comparisons of food prices depend very much on the choice of foods selected for comparison and on the allowances made far differences of quality and service. Generally speaking, food prices in Great Britain are relatively low and I see no need for an investigation of food distribution as a whole.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the argument continually used by the Government when we criticise farm support prices, namely, that food prices on the Continent are always cheaper than they are here, is flatly contradicted by the facts? Is it not condemnation of Governmental policy that the taxpayer has to foot a bill of £250 million a year, whilst many small farmers are living on less than the average industrial wage, and the consumer gets no benefit? If the taxpayer and the consumer and the farmer are not getting any benefit, can the right hon. Gentleman tell us who is?

It is wrong to say that the consumer gets no benefit from the system, which was run by the previous as well as the present Government. It is and has been a great benefit to the country as a whole. We must also bear in mind that while the sum of £250 million is large, it represents only 5 per cent. of the total cost of food in the country as a whole.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that, with the sole exception of Norway, prices of all basic foodstuffs in the shops in Britain are lower than in any West European country? Can the House correctly interpret my right hon. Friend's speech yesterday at Llandilo in Carmarthenshire as being a firm assurance to the British farming community that he does not propose in any way to derogate or depart from the provisions of both the 1947 and the 1957 Agriculture Acts?

It is very difficult to be too dogmatic about the prices of food in different countries, because of the differ- ent types of foods, the different standards and the varying systems of distribution and so on. What my hon. Friend can read into my speech is that all the Government's assurances about the 1947 and the 1957 Agriculture Acts still remain.

Will the right hon. Gentleman also inform his hon. Friend the Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) that since the present Government came into power real farm incomes, especially for small farmers, have declined considerably?

What is the relevance of that to this Question?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will state the figures of wholesale and retail prices for the main cuts of beef, lamb and mutton given to him in his recent talks with representative meat traders.

Retail meat prices are affected not only by wholesale prices but by many other factors such as the cut, the local preference for particular cuts, the type of service the butcher gives his customer and the butcher's constant overhead costs. One cannot, therefore, assess a representative figure of retail meat prices applicable to the country as a whole. Wholesale prices—on Smithfield Market—for sides but not cuts are published and are therefore freely available.

One understands the difficulties, but only a week ago the Minister said that he had had discussions with the meat traders and was satisfied that they were attempting to reduce meat prices. No customer I know has seen any evidence of reduced prices, although the cost of cattle and the wholesale prices in Smithfield Market are falling. Would it not help enormously if the Minister gave us some evidence—the kind of evidence which apparently the traders gave him—so that he could make a satisfactory speech in the House on behalf of the traders?

It is impossible to assess retail prices over the country. When the butchers' representatives came to see me the other day I made a great point of the fact—and they agreed—that there was a need to stimulate the consumption of meat at this time when wholesale prices are low. One considerable firm which owns about 400 shops—and this answers the question about beef, lamb and mutton which the hon. Member asked—is charging prices, according to the cut and type of meat, from sirloin at the top down to the fore and at the bottom, which have decreased over the last two months by between 8 per cent. and 50 per cent.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied with the part being played by the Fatstock Marketing Corporation? Surely the farmers' co-operative organisation ought to do something to increase the wholesale price of meat—the price paid to the farmers—rather than try to make a quick profit by joining the butchers' ring.

I do not think that that is fair. Where the F.M.C. is concerned, what has been happening is that an unusually fast flow of beasts has been coming forward into the auction marts in the last few weeks, quite out of proportion to what happened in the same period in recent years.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will state the progress made by the Hull and East Yorkshire River Board in causing deficient wharves on the River Hull to be raised to prevent flooding, in the four months since the serious flooding in Hull at the March equinoctial high tide; and what progress is expected to be made in the next two months before the September equinoctial high water spring tides.

So far the Hull Corporation has served twenty-one notices on the owners of those wharves which do not measure up to the requirements of the Hull Corporation Act of 1925. I am given to understand that a further list is being prepared and that it is hoped to cover all deficient wharves before September.

What information should I give to hundreds of my poor constituents who are flooded out about the time of the September equinoctial high tides? Should I advise hundreds of husbands to stay at home and look after their houses and furniture, and so handicap trains, buses and other essential services? Does the Parliamentary Secretary think it funny for a shipyard worker to come home by the upstairs bedroom window and to find his wife and children paddling in 3 ft. of flood water in the kitchen? When are we going to stop that?

The hon. and gallant Member's constituents would get a lot of formation if he let them have copies of the Answers to the 20-odd Questions which I have answered on this subject in the House over the last few weeks. I have tried to cover every aspect of the various points which he has raised.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what action is to be taken by the Hull and East Yorkshire River Board to ensure that, in future, red flood warnings are given in Hull before flooding from the River Hull, and that amber warnings are not given in Hull for warnings intended to be restricted to other divisions; and which officer is to be the local technical officer responsible for the decision to issue a warning after consideration of local conditions of tide, wind and flood water.

The Ministry is responsible for the east coast flood warning system. Flood warnings are given to the police and river boards and local flood warnings to the general public are issued by the police, after consultation with the river board, where necessary, about local conditions.

Is the Minister aware that on the night when the false amber warning was given I was in Hull and on the river? Why should hundreds of my poor constituents be kept up after midnight, taking up their carpets and putting their furniture in boxes unnecessarily, for a false amber warning which should never have been given? Why cannot the title be given, if not the name, of the official responsible for giving the red warning, and stop false warnings in Hull, in view of the fact that no one in Hull knows who it is, not even the police, who have to promulgate the information?

There could not be a red warning in the summer because the warning system does not operate in that way during the summer months. Neither my right lion. Friend nor I can accept responsibility for rumours which may have been circulating in Hull. I sympathise with people who have been suffering from floods, and I recognise that when high water conditions are likely they feel a certain sense of alarm. But no warning was issued on that day, and I cannot accept responsibility for rumours.

Are we not only not to have flood prevention but not even to have flood warnings during the period in which the affluent society is suspended?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the total number of applications for grant under the Horticulture Improvement Scheme: how many have been accepted: the total value of the liability for grant so far incurred; how many applications have been rejected; and how many applications are now awaiting a decision.

The figures for which my hon. Friend asks are, to the end of June. 2,596 applications, 1,655 approvals, £854,942 grant liability, 256 rejections and 541 still under consideration.

Is not this rather a disappointing response to the scheme? Is not my right hon. Friend aware that horticulturists find it rather more difficult than their agricultural colleagues to obtain loans due, I think, to lack of confidence? Is my right hon. Friend thinking of taking further steps to encourage higher productivity in this industry?

The scheme has been running for little more than a year, and I do not agree that the figures which I have quoted are as unsatisfactory as my hon. Friend seems to think. I think that the scheme got off to an encouraging start. The difficulty is that with the smaller holdings not enough men can afford to put up two-thirds of the money to meet what is required after the one-third grant has been paid. I hope that more attention will be paid to this by the co-operatives.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what action he will take on the Food Standards Committee's Report on Bread and Flour.

I am hoping to circulate my proposals in the autumn.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that it took some years for the Government to set up this Committee to make the investigation and that the Commmittee took another few years to finalise its Report? While we appreciate that the Government are in a bit of a mess at the moment, will not the Minister make up his mind to issue his final decision long before the autumn, because in the meantime this staple article of food is being chemically tampered with for the benefit of the millionaire milling combines.

Comments were invited in the early part of this year and very many sets of comments were received from a number of manufacturers, local authorities, trade organisations and private individuals. We will get on with this as soon as we can, but it is a complicated, technical, and scientific subject.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is satisfied that the British Standards Institution's Consumer Services, covering advice, information, research, the adjustment of complaints and the provision of standards, are being properly and efficiently maintained; and if he will increase the grant he makes for these purposes.

I understand that it is proving difficult to maintain all the services which the Consumer Advisory Council would wish to see performed, but I cannot consider a change in the present arrangements before I have the advice of the Committee on Consumer Protection.

I am glad that the Minister recognises the good work which the Advisory Council is doing. I am sure that he appreciates that the Council is being handicapped in its work by lack of cash. Does he not agree that if we are to have a wage freeze, the Council can do a good job for people whose incomes are affected by the wage freeze by showing them how to get better value for their money and by helping to keep out of the market the traders who might be defrauding them if the Council were not doing this work?

I agree that it is an important matter but it is wiser to await the advice of the Committee before I take decision.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if the investigation into the Milk Marketing Board's application for anti-dumping duties on imported full cream and skim milk powder has yet been completed; and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir. This is by no means a straightforward case and I cannot say when a decision will be taken.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what is the estimated natural increase in the insured population of the Northern Region up to the end of 1963; how many new jobs are in prospect; and how many redundancies are expected.

I understand that the information asked for in the first part of the Question is not available. The answer to the second part is that about 22,000 jobs are in prospect, of which about 1,000 will be in Cumberland and Westmorland. As regards the third part, I am informed by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour that he is aware of about 1,800 redundancies expected during the course of this year.

If the Government intend at long last to go in for planning, is it not surprising that this sort of information is not available? Is it not on this sort of information that the Govern- ment's plans for the promotion of industry in the region should be based? Is the Minister aware that, according to my calculations, if the national increase in the insured population in the next two years is added to the number of redundancies it comes to nearly twice the number of jobs in prospect? What does the Minister intend to do about it?

Questions of population growth should be addressed to the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance. Unemployment in the Northern Region is down to 2 per cent. —26,000—and there are 22,000 jobs in prospect. I think that the position is not as bad as is sometimes suggested.

Over what period are the 22,000 jobs in prospect? Whose estimate has the Minister taken on this? In the past, highly optimistic forecasts have been given but have never been fulfilled.

I explained to the House recently that the estimates which we give are based on figures provided by firms applying for industrial development certificates. By and large, our experience is that they are pretty accurate, but we cannot guarantee the accuracy of any particular case.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, in view of the fact that after four years of investigation the Monopolies Commission has reported that resale price maintenance does not operate against the public interest so far as the cigarette and tobacco industry is concerned, what steps he proposes to take to ensure that equally comprehensive consideration is given to the merits of resale price maintenance so far as concerns other industries affected by the inquiry which his own Department is making into this subject at the present time.

Resale price maintenance was only one of a large number of matters covered by this investigation. In any case, as my hon. Friend will remember, in the Monopolies Commission's Report an the tobacco industry, as well as the majority view, a minority view was expressed on the effects, as regards public advantage, of resale price maintenance in this industry. When I have before me the results of the Departmental inquiry I shall be able to decide whether any further consideration needs to be given to this problem in respect of other industries.

Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that no decision will be given on this extremely important and tendentious matter until the result of his inquiry has been considered by Parliament?

Any action on this matter would involve legislation, so it would certainly have to come before the House.

Before we come to legislation, would the Minister care to give us his personal views on the minority observations?

Not at the present moment.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what plans he has for the disposal of Government-owned factories on the Team Valley Trading Estate and elsewhere in the North-East to private firms.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what plans he has for the disposal of Government-owned factories on the trading estates of Spennymoor and Dragonville, Durham, and elsewhere in the North-East, to private firms.

None at present. But the Government have always been, and will continue to be, ready to consider selling factories to suitable applicants.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we are glad to have the assurance contained in the first part of his reply? Is he also aware that Government-owned factories have been a major element in absorbing redundancy in the North-East, and that if the Government dispose of them they will be throwing away one of the most useful weapons for dealing with redundancies?

We shall have to look at this matter very carefully, but if a sitting tenant wishes to buy one of these Government-owned factories he is more likely to provide permanent than temporary employment.

Is the Minister aware that any threat to Government-owned factories would be absolutely deplorable? In the past they have provided work for thousands of people in the North-East, and it would be disastrous to sell them to private enterprise. It would be turning the clock back thirty years.

We certainly would not take any action in this regard which was contrary to our general policy of trying to encourage employment in these areas.

asked the President of the Board of Trade the number of persons employed on the trading estates in the North-East; and the number of jobs in prospect.

Sixty-one thousand, three hundred and ten persons were employed in factories in the North-East administered by the Industrial Estates Management Corporation for England at the end of May; jobs in prospect for Government-financed factories total 7,500.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the figure or percentage of jobs in prospect for skilled workers? If the number of unskilled jobs is disproportionate to the number of skilled workers, how does this make a contribution to the solution of the very serious problem of the number of unskilled unemployed workers in the North-East?

I agree that the number of unskilled unemployed is a serious problem. I will try to obtain the figures if the hon. Member will put down a Question.

When the right hon. Gentleman says that there are 7,000 jobs in prospect, what period does that cover? Over what period does he expect them to be filled? Is this part of the 22,000 that he mentioned earlier, when he evaded giving an answer when he was asked over what periods he expected these jobs to be filled?

The 7,500 are in respect of Government-financed factories in the North-East. One cannot be exactly certain about the time. The projects put forward in connection with industrial development certificates involving the building of factories may take a year or two. If I am asked to give an exact estimate of the amount of time I should prefer to have notice, in order to give the best figure.

In view of the anxieties which are apparent from the Questions put about prospects in the North-East, can the Minister assure us that the Chancellor's statement on Tuesday does not mean that the operation of the Local Employment Act is now being suspended on the North-East Coast and in Wales?

My right hon. and learned Friend's statement did not involve any suspension or diminution of activities under the Local Employment Act.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that Jacksons Industries, Limited, proposes to close its Luton factory, where at least 1,100 people are employed, many of them of long service, with a view to extending its factory or that of its associated company Parnells Limited, at Yate, Bristol; and whether, in view of the hardship which will be caused to the Luton employees, he will refuse an industrial development certificate for the Bristol extension.

The application from Parnall (Yate) Limited for an industrial development certificate for the extension of its factory at Yate has been refused, in view of the employment position in the Bristol area.

Is the Minister aware that the intense opposition to this proposed move comes from the official trade union movement, and is concentrated on the fact that some employees have had over forty years' experience, and have built these firms up, and that this opposition is greater because of their fear about the level of diversification of industry there? Will he see the people of this area, and hear their case?

In Luton the unemployment figure is only 0·5 per cent. and there are 500 registered outstanding vacancies. I would not agree with this firm going to Bristol, because of the shortage of labour there, but if it wanted to go to a development district where there was heavy unemployment that would be a different matter.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will consider building, purchasing, or fitting out a ship, suitable to be used as a floating trade fair ship, similar to the one the Japanese are now using for international visits.

No, Sir. All our information goes to show, as far as the United Kingdom is concerned, both that the results to be obtained from such fairs are not worth the heavy expense involved and that industry prefers to participate in established trade fairs on land.

Will my right hon. Friend tell us whether he has discussed this matter with our embassy in Tokyo? Is he aware that the Japanese have fitted out ships of this kind and are having a tremendous success with them throughout the world?

We have a good deal of information about these ships, and have discussed them with our Exhibitions Advisory Committee. On the whole, however, the cost of providing space in a ship is about four times the cost for a land exhibition. My impression is that, although many people visit these ships, not a large amount of trade flows from those visits.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in view of the urgency of increasing exports and of providing inducements to industrialists to re-equip and reorganise their factories to this end where necessary, he will now arrange to reduce the difficulties which are imposed by his Department on various firms with a large export potential which have plans for rebuilding and modernising their factories on new sites.

Applications for industrial development certificates from firms wishing to modernise and re-equip their factories without additional labour requirements are considered sympathetically, as the statistics indicate. But I must also have regard to the consequential effects on the labour position in the district if rebuilding on a new site leaves the former building available for additional production.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that several cases have been brought to my notice of bad results coming from his inflexible policy over these I.D.Cs.? Is he aware that The Times had an article stating that investment could be distorted, and that there is a real risk that if a company does not get a new factory in the area of its choice it may go abroad?

I agree that there is a risk, but it must be faced. I do not accept the view of The Times on this point. It seems to me to be a good thing both economically and socially to try to guide industrial developments into areas where people are available for employment, rather than increasing the shortage of labour in other districts.

Is the Minister aware that he will have very strong support from hon. Members on this side of the House—and I am sure from many of his hon. Friends—if he sees to it that those parts of the country that most need development are given development? We are very much behind him in his efforts to see that this process of getting more and more industry into the south does not continue.

I propose to follow policies that best serve the economic as well as the social structure of the country.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his approach to this subject in this context is a little academic, and that we must be prepared to back success if we are to get our export trade really going?

I agree about backing success, but it is not necessarily wise to let people extend industry in areas of labour shortage. They might get the people they wanted, but they might take away people from other firms also engaged in export trade.

Will my right hon. Friend look again at the question of helping exports not only by removing difficulties at home but by giving tax concessions to that part of industry which engages in export?

I feel that that question is not for me.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been called to the circumstances in which a large proportion of a consignment of tortoises imported into this country via Newhaven on 19th June arrived in a dead or dying condition; and, in view of this evidence of continuing cruelty, whether he will now consider taking steps to ban or control the importation of tortoises.

My attention has been drawn to the import of tortoises to which the hon. Member refers. I do not consider that it would be appropriate to use powers conferred on the Board of Trade under the Import, Export and Customs Powers (Defence) Act, 1939, in the manner he suggests.

Is the President of the Board of Trade aware that when 2.000 tortoises arrived in this country on that occasion 1,000 of them were either dead or dying; that when the crates were opened each crate was a wriggling mass of maggots—{HON. MEMBERS: "Reading."]—yes, I am reading from the report of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals—I think it rather important that we should have this information before us. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when some of these animals were lifted from the crates the bones fell out of the shells and others had crushed shells? Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that there is no action possible against anyone in this country with respect to these matters, and that every animal lover in the country would much prefer to be without tortoises than to have them come in this condition?

My point is that the powers conferred on me are for use for economic purposes and I do not think that they could be used for other purposes.

Is it still intended that these tortoises should be used as the symbol of the Government's economic and financial policy?

asked the President of the Board of Trade what progress he has made in his talks with M. Patolichev, Russia's Minister of Foreign Trade, for the increase of Anglo-Soviet trade; since the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics enjoys a substantial favourable trade balance, what proposals they have made for reducing it by purchasing more British consumer goods; and if he will make a statement.

I had useful informal talks with Mr. Patolichev during his recent visit to this country. We considered further the proposals for the expansion of Anglo-Soviet trade which had been put forward by each side during the discussions held in Moscow at the time of the British Trade Fair.

I wish my right hon. Friend good luck in his endeavour to double the trade both ways between Russia and this country. Will he bear in mind that last year we bought from Russia £75 million worth of goods but that they purchased only £53 million worth from us? Ought not that gap of £21 million to be filled with British consumer goods? We have the goods ready to export which they would like to have. Will my right hon. Friend press that point of view?

I am glad to say that the balance greatly improved in the first half of 1961. We must also remember that Russia spends large sums of money in the sterling area on sterling area raw materials. They are in fact buyers of sterling, and we must take that into account.

But when they buy raw materials from the Commonwealth that does not provide employment in this country. Are not we entitled to ask that a larger proportion of the sterling they earn by selling here should be spent on goods made in this country and so provide work for our people? Will my right hon. Friend look at this matter again?

I agree, and I am glad to say that that has been happening. In the first half of this year British imports were down compared with last year and British exports were substantially up.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will state the present average length of time between applications for grants by firms under the Local Employment Act being received and a decision being reached.

The interval between the first submission of an application and the final decision upon it averages between four and five months. The interval between receiving from the applicant all the information necessary to enable the Committee to investigate his case and the final decision on it averages less than two months. I do not consider that there is any avoidable delay.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are complaints from many different parts of the country about the length of time which elapses between a company making an application and a final decision being reached? In view of the absolute necessity to put some drive behind this programme in the development districts, will the right hon. Gentleman look at this again to make sure that there is no unnecessary delay?

I have looked at it many times and I am satisfied that there is no unavoidable delay. I know that there are complaints. If there were no complaints I should be worried. We are providing a substantial amount of public money and it is important that we make sure that the people obtaining it are likely to provide lasting employment.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if the further discussions he has had with the Russians and other shippers of barley to the United Kingdom market satisfy him that the forward contracts they have made at prices below the £20 a ton minimum will not seriously depress the barley market in the next few months, when the bulk of the home crop will be coming forward; and if he will make a statement.

I do not expect that sales under existing contracts will be more than the market can reasonably absorb.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the trade quotations are now being offered on Russian barley to be delivered in September and October at well below the £20 basic figure? Will he confirm that he is determined, either by agreement with the suppliers or by imposing an import duty, to stop the dumping of Russian barley?

I am satisfied with the arrangements we have come to. I hope to be able to give more information in a few days' time.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the home crop is already beginning to be marketed, and not at a very good price. Although the actions he has taken are much appreciated, may I ask him to look at the whole question of the dumping of imports into this country and their effect on farm prices?

I agree with my hon. Friend that this is a big problem which certainly merits study.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many firms have shown an interest in the tenancy of the large empty Government-financed factory at Stockton-on-Tees since 18th April, 1961.

Three firms have shown an interest as possible occupiers of this factory since 18th April last.

Would the President of the Board of Trade say whether there is any real prospect of any firm taking over this very important factory, or is it to be a permanent memorial to the failure of this Government's planning?

I cannot say whether particular inquirers will or will not take the factory, but I repeat that there are important firms interested.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what assessment he has made of the consequences of British entry into the Common Market, with particular reference to an estimate of those countries, apart from the members of the Commonwealth and the European Free Trade Association, with which the United Kingdom would be precluded from entering into independent trading relations.

It would not be feasible to make an assessment of this kind in advance; the answer would depend upon such factors as changes in our own competitive power, the future level of the common tariff, and the commercial policy followed by the enlarged European Economic Community.

Is that not a completely evasive reply? If the Government decide to accept the provisions of the Rome Treaty, that would preclude—apart from the E.F.T.A. countries and the Commonwealth countries—the United Kingdom engaging in independent trading relations. Why does not the right hon. Gentleman say that is so?

Simply because I thought everyone knew that.

Are we to understand that the Government propose to enter into negotiations with the Six without having considered the consequences of their actions?

All I was saying was that it is impossible in advance to make an assessment. The countries concerned take about 25 per cent. of our export trade and against any loss there may be in joining the Community we have to put the positive side. We cannot make an assessment in advance of consequences of action of this kind.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consult the Prime Ministers of the other members of the Commonwealth with a view to a common initiative in favour of the seating of the Peking Government at the next session of the United Nations.

Her Majesty's Government are conscious of the complexity of this question on which differing views are held. We certainly expect to be in consultation with Commonwealth and other friendly Governments before this issue next comes before the United Nations.

I thank the Prime Minister for that not unhelpful reply. Since the noble Lord the Foreign Secretary has now officially stated that the view of Her Majesty's Government is that the Government of Peking should be given its rightful seat in the Assembly of the United Nations and on the Security Council, and since India, Pakistan and Ceylon strongly share this view, would not a Commonwealth initiative be the best way to achieve the desired result?

It is not for me to represent the views of other Commonwealth Governments, but on previous occasions they have been very different. I hope that progress will be made.

In view of the fact that Australia, New Zealand and, I believe, Canada, do not even recognise the Peking Government but the one at Formosa, would not it be extremely difficult for the Prime Minister to press this matter of seating Peking at the United Nations?

As I said, it is a very complex matter.

asked the Prime Minister what types of arms and equipment are now being exported to Portugal because they are suitable only for use in the fulfilment of North Atlantic Treaty Organisation obligations.

As the House has recently been reminded, it has been the practice of successive Governments not to reveal details of arms supplied to other Governments.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this Quest ion arises out of an assurance given to the House recently on behalf of the Government? Without detailing the equipment, can the right hon. Gentleman really assure us that there is no item of arms or equipment which could be used both for N.A.T.O. purposes and in Angola?

There are, of course, many types of equipment. We are trying to operate this in such a way as to carry out the undertaking given to the House.

Will the Prime Minister say what method there is of discovering that a weapon which could be used to kill the enemies of N.A.T.O. could not be used to kill Africans in Angola?

May I take, as an example, the two frigates which have just been sold?

Would it not be both simpler and more honest to follow the example of the Norwegian Government and ban the export of arms and ammunition to Portugal?

No, Sir. I have made a statement to the House and I should like to assure the House that we are carrying it out in the way I said.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us into which category the napalm bomb falls?

I should like notice of that question and whether they have ever been asked for or delivered.

asked the Prime Minister if he will move to appoint a Select Committee to consider revision of Private Bill Procedure and to report.

No, Sir.

Is it not a negation of democracy that, on unopposed Bills, a Committee of one peer in another plaice can throw out a Clause after a few minutes' consideration when it has been examined in detail and approved by an all-party Committee in this House; and that there is no redress without the risk of losing the whole Bill?

The Private Bill procedure was examined thoroughly in 1955 by a Joint Committee under the chairmanship of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Colne Valley (Mr. Glenvil Hall). As recently as the summer of 1959 we had a report on the promotion of Private Bills from a Select Committee under the chairmanship of the late Lord Reading. I would observe that these Amendments were agreed to by the House a few days ago.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many valuable Private Members' Bills are killed by methods—

Oh.

Order. That is a different question.

asked the Prime Minister when he expects to announce the names of the review body recommended by the Pilkington Commission to advise on doctors' remuneration; and if he will make a statement.

It may be some little time yet before I can announce the composition of this body.

Does the Prime Minister recall that the Pilkington Commission reported over a year and a half ago and the Government accepted its Report over a year ago? Does he further recall that when the Government had a head-on collision with the medical profession in 1956 and he had to intervene it was caused by similar dilatory action after the result of the Danckwerts award in 1951? Will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that quick action is taken to avoid a similar position arising?

I hope that we shall be able to make progress. I must remind the hon. Member that the Pilkington Commission envisaged that the review body would go into action at relatively infrequent intervals, three years being mentioned as a minimum.

While my right hon. Friend is considering the matter will he bear in mind that people supplementary to the medical profession are also in a difficult position and that all the Government's attention should not be paid merely to the medical profession but to all those who serve the interests of the National Health Service? Could he say something about seeing that their position is also looked at independently by a review committee?

Yes, but this question arises from the Pilkington Commission. I should like to make further inquiry before dealing with a wider matter.

Will the Prime Minister tell us whether doctors' remuneration is or is not affected by the wages and salaries freeze in the public sector which has been announced? If not, what is the reason for drawing a distinction between doctors and teachers?

It is because it was envisaged that the review body would not go into action again except at infrequent intervals, three years being the minimum.

Will the Prime Minister answer the question? Are we to understand that distinctions are to be drawn between different professions in this way according to what is more or less an historical accident? Will he at least consider appointing a Commission to look into the question of teachers' remuneration so that satisfactory recruitment can be obtained?

That is a rather different question. I have been asked what action we are taking under the Pilkington recommendations. I am sorry that we have not succeeded in getting an agreement on the body, but I have pointed out that, as it was not expected to go into action again for a considerable period, we should be able to complete the body in good time.

asked the Prime Minister whether he proposes to attend the September Session of the United Nations General Assembly as head of the United Kingdom delegation.

I have made no decisions on this matter at present.

Will the Prime 'Minister bear in mind the importance of his attending the September Session of the United Nations in view of the deterioration in the international situation? Would not even a short visit afford facilities for informal discussions with the Heads of other Governments, especially President Kennedy in Washington?

This is a matter on which, if I thought it right, I should not hesitate to do as I did last year, but what will be the precise position at that time it is rather hard to tell. There may be other meetings of Heads of Governments concerned with the German and other questions.

Is it not the contention of the Government that there is an immediate and developing threat to peace over the Berlin situation? Is it necessary to wait until September to see whether it deteriorates further before the United Nations takes any cognisance of it?

The Foreign Ministers of the countries mainly concerned are meeting, I think next week. They will no doubt consult together. I am asked whether I can go to the General Assembly. I cannot go to the General Assembly in August because it is not sitting then.

asked the Prime Minister what replies he has received from the Prime Ministers of the Commonwealth countries to his proposal that the declaration on disarmament, adopted at the recent Commonwealth Conference in London, should be circulated to members of the United Nations as a joint document sponsored by all the members of the Commonwealth.

I am still in consultation with my colleagues in the Commonwealth about this matter.

Since it is already many weeks since the Prime Minister said that consultations had begun, is there any special reason for the delay, as they all agreed on the declaration in London? Will it be circulated in time for the meeting of the United Nations Disarmament Commission in August?

As the Commonwealth grows these things become rather lengthy, but I am hopeful that we have almost reached the end of our inquiries.

asked the Prime Minister whether he has received a letter, dated 17th July, 1961, addressed to him by Chief Hosea Kutako, the chief of the Herero people, with reference to the suspension by the British Government of visas for the United Nation's Committee on South-West Africa to enter Bechuanaland; and whether he will publish this letter, together with the terms of his reply.

Yes, Sir. I have received such a letter. As it was described as an open letter, I assume that the sender will make such arrangements for publication as he wishes. I would see no objection to the publication of the reply when it is sent.

Will the Prime Minister make clear in his reply whether Her Majesty's Government in this country approve or deplore the decision of the South African Government to keep the United Nations Committee out of South-West Africa?

It is a fairly long letter and I am considering the terms of the reply.

asked the Prime Minister in view of the urgent necessary for long-term planning of British Industry, as revealed by the recent decisions of Her Majesty's Government in relation to the economic situation, if he will now consider appointing a Minister for Economic Planning.

No, Sir. Financial policy in all its forms is so closely bound up with the management of the economy that I do not think it would be useful to separate the economic planning and the financial functions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Ministers chiefly concerned with economic affairs work very closely together and it would not help to add to their number.

Does not that Answer reveal that the Government are not really serious about the whole business of economic planning and that the Chancellor is already overworked? Is the Prime Minister aware that the Chancellor has been planning not in the interests of the nation but in the interests of the Surtax payers?

In regard to the first part of the supplementary question, the Chancellor announced that he is consulting both sides of industry as to some improvement or alteration of the present procedure, but I still do not think that it would be wise to separate this entirely from the Treasury. I think any Minister who had experience would agree with me.

Do the Prime Minister's answers mean that under the existing arrangements the Chancellor of the Exchequer is responsible for economic planning?

Primarily, but he is assisted by the other Ministers, as the right hon. Member knows, who are particularly concerned with these affairs.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that there is a widespread feeling in economic and financial circles that the growth of responsibilities of the Chancellor of the Exchequer has been so rapid in the post-war period that the present arrangement of Treasury Ministers, which leads to grave overburdening particularly in view of the meticulous detail with which many financial matters are now dealt with in this House, means that there ought to be serious consideration given to a reorganisation of all Treasury responsibilities?

I quite agree that the enormous size and complexity compared with the problems thirty or forty years ago have increased the burden. I shall certainly consider whether an improvement can be made to handle it.

Will the Prime Minister give a little study to the history of these supreme advisory committees, going back to Ramsay MacDonald's days, find what has happened to all the others and see that the new one does something useful?

That will be our hope.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what are the total amounts now outstanding of dated and undated Government stocks, respectively;

£12,197 million of dated stocks and £3,692 million of undated stocks were outstanding on 31st March, 1961. The following dated stocks have final redemption dates after 2000 A.D.: 3½ per cent. Funding Stock 1999–2004, 5½ per cent. Treasury Stock 2008–12, 2½ per cent. Treasury Stock 1986–2016.

Bearing those figures in mind, could my hon. Friend tell the House what would be the consequences referred to by his hon. Friend the other day which would flow from the fixing of a date for 3½ per cent. War Loan after the expiry of the dated stocks he has mentioned? What would be the cost to the Exchequer? Surely he should welcome a suggestion which might bring about a stabilisation of gilt-edged securities at a rather difficult time?

I would hesitate to hazard a prediction about the problems of debt management forty years from now. There is nearly £11,000 million of stock maturing between now and then which will have to be re-financed and which ought to be taken into account.

I asked what the consequences would be provided this took place after, not before or during, the dates my hon. Friend mentioned. The fact that there are £11,000 million meanwhile is irrelevant to that question.

I am saying that I cannot say now what the problems will be during the period between now and 2000 to which my hon. Friend referred. That obviously has a bearing on the matter. As the House will have appreciated, economic circumstances change rather quickly these days.