asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when the Hampshire River Board expects to complete the scheme to improve Tanner's Brook over the entire watercourse; and when the last normal maintenance on the watercourse was carried out within the county borough of Southampton.

I understand that the river board intends to complete the final stage of the comprehensive scheme by 1965. Normal maintenance within the county borough of Southampton is carried out twice yearly, the last occasion being this summer.

Is my hon. Friend aware that serious flooding has taken place this autumn, and will he take steps to safeguard the properties of my constituents in the Millbrook area of Southampton by having a further survey made to see what can be done to remove the surplus water from their gardens and properties?

As I expect my hon. Friend knows, the river board does pay attention to the maintenance of this watercourse. The preliminary survey has now been completed for more serious work, and a recorder has been installed to gauge the flow of water. As to the reasons of the recent floods, my hon. Friend may be interested to know that the board reports that amongst the rubbish removed from the bed of the watercourse were a number of iron bedsteads, perambulators, etc., no doubt the property of his constituents.

In view of the nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what changes he proposes to make in the policy set out in Command Paper No. 1453 for the fishing industry, in view of the representations made to him by the British Trawler Federation and other bodies.

No changes have been made in the broad policy set out in Command Paper 1453 and incorporated in the Bill now before the House. There have been some changes in the details of implementing it, and these are set out in an exchange of letters with representatives of the trawler owners which was published on 3rd November, and a copy of which I am having placed in the Library.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that those in the industry are grateful for the way in which he received their representations and are pleased that an agreed solution has been reached?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what percentage of the small holdings administered by public authorities fell vacant during the last year; whether this percentage is increasing or decreasing; and what is now the average length of tenure for each tenant.

About 5½ per cent. of the small holdings administered by public authorities fell vacant in the year to 31st March, 1961. Since 1954, this percentage has fluctuated between 5 and 6 per cent. The average length of a smallholder's tenure is estimated at rather more than twenty years.

Is it not clear that this turnover is not very satisfactory if we are to regard small holdings as a very useful ladder for farm workers? Will not my hon. Friend look into this again and review the Government's smallholding policy to see whether more cannot be done to provide this very much needed ladder for more farm workers who wish to become farmers?

I think it is wrong to belittle the advantages of this policy. Some 10,000 full-time small holdings have been provided under the post-war Acts. My hon. Friend cannot, of course, have it all ways; when agriculture enjoys stability there is not the same amount of movement on and off farms.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how much food is stocked in this country which is immune from radioactivity; and how long he estimates that these supplies would feed the people of this country in the event of an emergency.

In the event of any emergency likely to occur in peace time, there would, at any given time, be ample stocks of safe food in the country to feed the population.

Would the Minister include a period of high radioactivity as being synonymous with peace-time conditions?

Yes, Sir, anything we envisage as likely to be created.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what consultation he has had with the Pyrethrum Board with regard to the formulation of safety standards for pesticides used in agriculture.

None, Sir. Recommended standards for the safe use of pesticides in agriculture are laid down by the Advisory Committee on Poisonous Substances used in Agriculture and Food Storage. These are discussed with the manufacturers who notify their products for examination under the voluntary notification scheme. The Pyrethrum Board has not asked for its products to be examined by the Advisory Committee.

But as increasing use is being made of compounds that are toxic to human beings—and this is substan- tiated by the I960 Factories Report-is it not really urgent that the Minister should insist on raising the safety standards of pesticides, fungicides and seed dressings, and should also positively encourage the use of non-toxics such as pyrethrum?

I am sure that the hon. Lady will know that we are as concerned with this problem as she is. Pyrethrum is amongst the less toxic substances, admittedly, but it is also amongst the less effective. The Pyrethrum Board is carrying out a number of researches and is in touch with our Department. There is certainly no evidence to show that the Board, which is expanding its production, is not finding a useful outlet for all that it can provide. There is, in fact, reference to it in The Timesnewspaper today.

In view of what my hon. Friend has just said, can he say how soon it will be before there will be a reply to the recommendations of the Select Committee on Estimates in the last Session?

My right hon. Friend has that very much in hand, and it will not be very long before my hon. Friend receives a reply.

Does the hon. Gentleman think that the purpose of this Question is merely concerned with whether this Board can sell its commodities, or, rather, the health of the people arising out of the use of these products?

Of course, I understand that it is mainly concerned with the toxic nature of many chemicals that are now in use. On the other hand, there was the implication that, perhaps, there were alternative products available which were less toxic. I wanted to make the point that we were taking notice of what the Board has been able to do.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he has yet estimated whether the cost to the Exchequer of the price guarantees under the Agriculture Acts in the current year to date is running at a higher or lower figure than in 1960; what is the amount of the difference; and which commodities mainly contribute to it.

As at 30th September payments under the price arrangements for all commodities in the current financial year were £40 million higher than in the corresponding six months of 1960–61. The commodities mainly contributing to this increase are fat cattle, sheep, cereals and potatoes.

While recognising the need to keep this figure as low as possible, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the figure has not risen very much of recent years and that even in a complete year it may not turn out to be all that much bigger than in the previous year? In the talks in which my right hon. Friend is about to be engaged, will he be slow to abandon a system which has served many interests, not merely farmers and farm workers, but consumers and traders, lest he is absolutely compelled to adopt some other alternative?

As to the outcome for the whole year, I cannot forecast, as my hon. Friend appreciates, but I think my hon. Friend will agree that the figure for the first six months is considerably increased on the previous year. As to the second part of his question, I yield to none in my belief in the benefits that have flowed to the country as a whole from the use of our system of agricultural support.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he proposes to take to prevent a recurrence of the low market realisation prices for beef, mutton and lamb this summer.

The low prices were the result mainly of heavier marketings of home-produced stock, due in part to the increase in our livestock population and in part to the influence of the weather on the pattern of marketings. There were exceptional circumstances in marketing this summer which will not necessarily be repeated next year.

In view of what my right hon. Friend has said, would he not consider that it is time to control the importation of these products at the time of high home killing periods? Would he not also consider the encouragement of a meat marketing board for the benefit of both farmer and consumer?

Both of my hon. Friend's supplementary questions raise big issues, not least the fact that, with regard to lamb from New Zealand, we have arrangements for the unrestricted free entry for their lamb. In the case of lamb from New Zealand and beef from the Argentine, a long sea passage is involved. Apart from any other aspects of the matter, it would be very difficult from a machinery point of view to implement.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will now consider setting up an interdepartmental committee to examine the need for co-ordinating the food market, for limiting imports and for operating effective anti-dumping measures in the interests of both the British farmer and consumer.

The negotiations with the members of the European Economic Community have an obvious bearing on all these issues and what my hon. Friend has in mind is already being examined inter-departmentally in that context. I do not think it would help to set up a separate committee.

While I understand that, does my right hon. Friend not consider that now is the time for the responsibility for the control of imports, whether by anti-dumping legislation or straightforward control, to be vested in a committee in his Ministry instead of it being the joint responsibility of the Board of Trade and the Ministry of Agriculture?

The anti-dumping legislation to which my hon. Friend refers is, of course, the only piece of legislation on the Statute Book. This covers all the trade of the country, and the responsibility for implementing it must inevitably rest with the President of the Board of Trade.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether, in order to enable British trawlers off the Icelandic coast to fix their position more accurately and so avoid the difficulties arising from unintentional violations of fishery limits, he will consult with the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs regarding an approach to the Icelandic Government with a view to the development of better navigational facilities in that area.

There is no doubt of the advantages which would flow from better navigational facilities off the Icelandic coast to help ensure the effectiveness of the Anglo-Icelandic fishery agreement. My hon. Friend will, of course, be aware that the provision of such facilities is a matter for the individual country concerned. We would certainly be pleased to see the facilities improved and I will keep my hon. Friend's suggestion in mind.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, since the conclusion of the Anglo-Icelandic agreement, six British trawlers have been arrested and heavily fined? Will he do his best to see that better Loran receivers are available or a Decca chain is set up in Iceland?

The navigational change to which my hon. Friend refers was answered in my original reply. Although I agree that this would be beneficial to the implementation of this agreement from both the Icelandic and our own points of view, it must be for the Icelandic Government to take a decision as to whether or not they should put one up.

Is the Minister not aware that this might be extended further; that two Scottish vessels where convictions took place had these convictions quashed by the appeal court, arising from incidents at the Faroes, and, in view of these continual incidents in these grounds, will the Minister take the initiative about securing what has been asked for by his hon. Friend, since it is beneficial to the country and to our fishermen?

The question concerned Iceland and not the Faroes, although I had this very much in mind.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (1) how many outbreaks of fowl pest have been confirmed in Norfolk during the past three months; how this number compares with outbreaks in previous years; and what new measures are proposed to reduce the outbreaks of this disease;

In Norfolk during the three months ended 31st October there were 59 outbreaks of fowl pest. The comparable figures for the three previous years are 87, 15 and 38 outbreaks. Compensation in the last three months has been assessed at £664,000, about half of which is payable to one breeder, but the amount is subject to arbitration. The control measures to support the present slaughter policy are being enforced vigorously and the hon. Member will have noticed that a committee of the industry is helping us to give the widest publicity to preventive measures and to symptoms of the disease. The Government set up a committee under the chairmanship of Sir Arnold Plant to review the arrangements for fowl pest. This is a very considerable and complex problem. The committee are well aware of our wish that the report should be made as soon as possible and we hope that it will be by the end of the year.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that it is a very serious matter that we should have these outbreaks of fowl pest so frequently? They are very costly to the breeders and to the Government, who must foot the bill and pay the compensation. Many people in the poultry industry are of the opinion that the Government are not spending nearly enough money on research into the causes of this dreadful disease, and will the Parliamentary Secretary see that more money is provided for this purpose? Regarding compensation, I agree that breeders must be compensated, but is there any reason why workers who lose their jobs as a result of these outbreaks should not also be compensated? Will the hon. Gentleman look into the whole question of assessing and paying compensation which many people consider is open to serious criticism and is a subject which has not been revised in recent years?

On the first Question, there is no doubt whatever that this is a line of research which has great claims upon us. With regard to compensation to workers, where the employer receives compensation for the loss of healthy birds, then I think it is up to him, if he considers it right and proper, to share it with those who may have a claim on him. As to the methods of assessment, that is one of the questions on which we are hoping this committee will be able to help us when it has completed its very arduous work and we receive its report, which we hope will be shortly.

Would the Parliamentary Secretary give details of the amount of money spent on research last year, how he thinks it will compare with the proposed figure for this year, and whether there is to be an increase?

I do not have the figure with me. If the hon. Gentleman will put down a Question, I shall be pleased to supply the information.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how much has been paid in compensation for birds destroyed on account of fowl pest during 1961, to the latest convenient date; and how many of the beneficiaries have benefited a second or third time.

Poultry and hatching eggs destroyed this year up to 31st October were valued at £2,795,000. Some of these valuations are subject to arbitration. As to the second part of the Question, I regret that this information is not available and could not be provided without a disproportionate expenditure of time and labour.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary take into account that there is widespread concern about these claims for fowl pest, especially where they recur, and will he ask his right hon. Friend to reconsider the matter so that any suspicion of fraud may be removed?

The last thing we want is any suspicion of fraud to remain. The Government do not easily part with money without good reason being shown, and, although I do not say that abuse has never happened, I am certain that it does not occur in the general run.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, what steps are now being taken to stabilise the British pig industry and at the same time limit imports of foreign bacon.

The best prospect for stability for the pig industry lies in a steady and reasonable level in the size of the national pig herd. The arrangements made at the last Annual Review were designed to contribute to this, in particular by the introduction of flexible guarantee and the assurance that the basic guarantee price would not be reduced at the 1962 Annual Review.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in recent weeks some pig producers have had difficulty in getting the purchasing agencies to accept their products? Does he think it right that countries which are not in E.F.T.A. or even connected with the Common Market should be allowed to dump their bacon or pig meat here as they please?

I cannot refer to the question of dumping while it is being considered as the result of an antidumping application. It is sub judiceand, therefore, I cannot go into the matter.

Would my right hon. Friend say whether he endorses the statement of policy which was made by my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary in his constituency the other day in so far as the question of pig marketing in the future is concerned with the Common Market countries? Is the Minister aware that my right hon. Friend is on record as having said that he believes that we must try to encourage Holland and Denmark to send more pigs to Germany and France? Is that his policy too?

As to what my right hon. Friend meant in that context, there is no doubt that with Denmark outside the Common Market area and with the tariffs that exist between the Common Market area and those outside it, this militates against the export of bacon and pig meat in general from Denmark into countries which are in the Common Market area. This situation would not exist were Denmark in the Common Market.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, if he is aware of the change by North Sea fishermen to French-type fishing gear; and if he will make a statement on the extent of this, the industrial situation thus created and the steps he is taking to make French-type gear available at reasonable prices to fishermen who need it.

Financial help has been given through the White Fish Authority to trials of French gear for middle-water vessels, the results of which will be made available to the industry. I am not aware of any general change to this type of gear. The last part of the hon. and learned Member's Question does not, therefore, arise.

In view of the increased efficiency of the French type of gear and its extensive use at present by French fishing boats in the North Sea, will the Minister take steps to see that British fishermen are not deprived of its use by either a shortage or a high price of gear? Would he see that funds are provided to enable British fishermen to compete on equal terms with French fishermen?

I have just told the hon. and learned Gentleman that trials are now taking place, the cost of which has been shared between the Government, the White Fish Authority and the owners concerned. We had better wait and see the result of these trials before we come to any conclusions.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, what investigation he has carried out into the possibilities of radioactive fall-out affecting fish.

My Department has for some years investigated the effect of radioactivity on fish and the results show that there is no possibility of fish being affected by present levels of radioactive fall-out.

Has the Minister studied the effect of the tests in the Pacific, after which the Japanese Government were compelled to destroy many thousands of tons of fish? Does he not think there is a possibility of risk occurring if there is an increase in fall-out?

All I can say is that the scientific advice given to us at present is that with the present and foreseen levels of fall-out, there is no possibility —I put it as high as that—of fish being affected by it in waters in which our boats fish.

Could the Minister give the House any information as to what level of fall-out would contaminate fish in the affected areas, with particular reference to those fish which travel to our inland and coastal waters, such as salmon and sea trout? Many thousands of these fish are caught annually in this country and we would need to be certain that they are not affected. What level of fall-out would affect them?

This is a serious question. I would be grateful if a Question were put down, when I would certainly give an answer to it.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will now allow an import of Charollais females in order to establish the breed in this country.

No, Sir. The object of the current importation of Charollais bulls from France is to see whether they have anything to offer in improving the quality of beef from our dairy herd. The question of establishing the breed will have to be considered when we have seen the results of this trial.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the situation has altered considerably since the Minister took his decision to import bulls only? Is he aware that the countries which were reputed to be afraid of the entry of these cattle have now decided that they want them? I refer to Canada, the United States, Mexico, and Australia. Is the right hon. Gentleman further aware that we are losing a volume of exports by being behind in the introduction of these cattle? The Minister must be aware that we are tops in breeding cattle in this country and in improving breeds. Would he not reconsider the whole situation so that we can get ahead and get these admirable cattle into our country?

I wholeheartedly agree with the hon. Member about what this country has to offer in the breeding of livestock. The Terrington Committee went into this matter in great detail and obtained a great amount of knowledge on the subject. That Committee has advised that we should have this pilot scheme to see what could be offered, and I think this is the right policy before we decide to import any more.

As I am not satisfied with that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, when a standard will be laid down for the meat content of sausages.

It is not my right hon. Friend's intention to lay down a standard for the meat content of sausages.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary know that every local authority is faced with the grave problem of not being able to bring a case against any offender who has produced sausages with a low meat content? Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that this leaves the housewife at the mercy of people who are prepared to make sausages with a low meat content; and further, in view of the high consumption of sausages in this House, does he not think that there should be some such standard?

This whole question was inquired into some time ago, as the hon. Lady knows, and my right hon. Friend's predecessor, in answer to a Question, showed how extremely difficult it was to lay down standards which were enforceable. There is really very little purpose in laying down standards which are not enforceable. As to the purchase of sausages, I should have thought that the average woman, or man for that matter, was as good a judge of sausages in the shops, and there are so many good sausages on the market that I do not see why anybody need buy bad sausages a second time.

Does my hon. Friend recall that the late Lord Crookshank said that Socialist sausages were more like cream buns than sausages?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, what Government stocks of dried milk are at present held; and what action he is taking to increase those stocks.

As hon. Members will know, the Government have already arranged for adequate supplies of evaporated and dried processed milk to be available for children up to one year old if contamination from radio-iodine should rise to a level at which they might be exposed to risk from drinking fresh milk.

Would it help a potential enemy if the Government gave some facts and figures to satisfy the British public, and in particular mothers, that adequate arrangements are being made for stocking and distributing this dried milk? Or is this to be another dark secret to cover up some more deficiencies in our defence policy, of which unfortunately we have had too many examples lately?

I will not agree for a moment that there is any doubt whatever in the minds of the public at large that the Government have made ample arrangements to ensure that should the need arise the supplies will be available.

Can the right hon. Gentleman go into a little more detail? For how long are the Government prepared to feed people in this country at a time of radioactive emergency? May we know what sort of stocks we have, how long they will last, what other food stocks we can get, and what sort of studies the Government are making?

From the point of view of a temporary danger on account of radio-iodine, which, as the hon. Gentleman knows, has a very short active life, there is no difficulty whatever. The only point at issue concerns milk. The radio-iodine has a short life and there will be no difficulty whatever in providing the necessary amount of dried or processed milk to take the place of liquid milk for those who might suffer were the levels to rise to an unacceptable limit. As regards the longer-term situation in relation to strontium-90 fall-out, as the hon. Gentleman knows, this happens many months later, and we shall be guided by the scientists as to the need and the sort of preventive measures we shall have to take where stockpiling in the interim is concerned. Whatever is necessary will be done.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what new advice he proposes to circulate to farmers about precautions to be taken against radioactive substances likely to damage crops and contaminate milk.

I do not consider that at the moment there is a need to give any special advice to farmers.

Can the Minister tell us whether, when the advice he has already given has been carried out and it is discovered that a farmer has radio-iodine in the milk, the farmer will be compensated if the Government decide that the milk must not be used for public consumption?

This is all based upon the premise, with which the hon. Gentleman started his supplementary question, about whether the advice that I have given has been followed. In fact, it has not been necessary to give any advice to farmers in this respect.

In view of this series of Questions and Answers, and particularly in view of the subsequent replies which the right hon. Gentleman has given, will he take this opportunity to confirm what was said by his right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence the other day, that nothing in the existing situation need give anyone any present anxiety?

Where foodstuffs are concerned, that is correct.

Will my right hon. Friend take this opportunity to say that, while very careful watch is being kept on the contamination of milk, there is in the meantime no danger whatever in drinking milk and, therefore, people should not buy less of it?

I absolutely agree with what my hon. Friend has said. There is no reason whatever why people should not drink all the milk that they wish, and more if they will.

asked the Lord Advocate what consideration he gave to the matter before it was decided to send the persons concerned in the recent anti-Polaris demonstrations at the Holy Loch for trial to the sheriff court.

I considered carefully in May of this year what action should be taken in relation to breaches of the peace arising out of demonstrations of this type. I decided that in such cases, where the evidence was sufficient, proceedings should be taken in the sheriff court in Dunoon, and gave instructions accordingly.

Now that we have unmasked the real villain in this matter, did the Lord Advocate realise that, in deciding to send these cases for trial to the sheriff court, he was taking a step which was bound to cause heavier sentences to be inflicted than the nature of the offences warranted?

No, Sir. The maximum fine in the justice of the peace court is £10 and in the sheriff court it is £25 for offences of this sort, but it is for the court to decide in any particular case what sentence should be inflicted.

What were the reasons why the Lord Advocate considered it so very much more serious to sit down on Ardnadam Pier than in Sauchiehall Street or Princes Street?

Or Trafalgar Square?

And in Trafalgar Square. The seriousness of the offences arose from a number of factors, including the numbers involved, the mass obstruction of the road concerned, and the deliberate manner in which the law was broken.

Does not that mean that the Lord Advocate had made up his mind 1o have cases dealt with thus before the offences took place?

In view of the fact that legal comparisons can now be made, after the event, will the Lord Advocate look at some of the sentences which were imposed in England for similar offences and consider again the decisions in this court?

The Act under which people were charged for offences in Trafalgar Square does not apply in Scotland. I cannot prosecute people in Scotland under an Act which applies to England. As regards what was said by the hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross), I did not say that I had decided beforehand what to do. What happened, in fact, was this. On 24th May this year, after the Whitsun demonstrations, having received a report from the procurator fiscal in regard to those, I decided that the persons concerned should be charged in the sheriff court at Dunoon. I did that after considering the procurator fiscal's report. At the same time, I instructed him that, in future, if the evidence was sufficient, he should proceed accordingly in similar cases.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he is satisfied with present arrangements whereby part or whole of a home confinement grant may be stopped if, in the opinion of the medical advisers concerned, it becomes desirable during the ten days that part of that period should be spent in hospital although the confinement was originally registered as domiciliary; and whether he will cause inquiries to be made into this problem.

The home confinement grant is a single payment of £6 for confinements at home. My right hon. Friend is satisfied that we have gone as far as we reasonably can in also treating certain confinements in National Health Service hospitals as though they had taken place at home. These are cases where the mother has made arrangements to have her baby at home but has had to be admitted to hospital as an emergency case before the baby was born. Admission to hospital after the birth does not deprive the mother of this grant.

If I understand the hon. Lady's answer correctly, she stands on the argument that cases will arise where the mother, although she was intending to have her baby at home, has to go to hospital for a few days, and she will not be given any form of grant. Does not this create hardship in the sense that the mother and the family will have involved themselves in expenditure in anticipation of the baby being delivered at home? As this is not fair or equitable, I appeal to the hon. Lady to consider the matter again.

The purpose of the grant is to induce people to make arrangements to have the confinement at home and for the baby to be born at home. My right hon. Friend knows that there are cases where women have to be admitted to hospital. Special arrangements are made for them to receive the home confinement giant, notwithstanding the fact that the baby is born in hospital, because they have incurred expenditure; but a line has to be drawn somewhere and, broadly speaking, it is drawn at a maximum of five days.

Will the hon. Lady take steps to ensure that such provision as she has now declared is made known to families, and will she again look into the matter to see whether she can go further in this matter, because cases of hardship have been drawn to my attention?

The full details of emergency cases which still rank for home confinement grants are given in the leaflet N.I. 17A on Maternity Benefits.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what is the maximum allowance under his regulations for loss of earnings to a person called before a local tribunal or medical board under the National Insurance Acts.

Forty shillings a day.

Since many of these people attending tribunals suffer loss of wages, will the hon. Lady put it to her right hon. Friend that it is time the question was reconsidered and an advance made on what is paid now?

The amounts payable as compensation for loss of remunerative time, which are common to committees and tribunals associated with Government Departments, are laid down by the Treasury, and questions about the scales are for my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will take steps to ensure that companies organizing inclusive air tours name the air operator transporting their clients and the type of aircraft to be used.

The Air Transport Licensing Board tells me that it is its intention as soon as practicable to make it a condition of inclusive tour licences that these particulars should always be advertised.

Do I take it from that Answer that the Licensing Board will have the full support of the Minister of Aviation in carrying out this step?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will list for each year since 1952 the number of passengers killed in accidents on air journeys, giving separate figures for scheduled and non- scheduled flights of the independent air lines, and the number of passenger miles flown, together with comparable figures for the Corporations.

As the Answer includes a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will the hon. Gentleman indicate whether the list proves that there is a higher accident rate on the independent airlines than on the Corporations and a far higher accident rate on non-scheduled services, such as chartered operations, on the independent airlines than on the Corporations? If that is so, will he take further steps to have more inspections made of the independent airline companies and their aircraft and the facilities of these companies, with a view to raising the safety standards generally?

As the Answer contains a lot of figures, and as comparisons based exclusively on those figures might be misleading—in certain respects they are unavoidably incomplete—I suggest that the hon. Gentleman should study the figures before asking further questions.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary give us the fullest possible particulars, because, whether it is a question of chartered flights against scheduled flights or independent airlines against the Corporations, these are vary important questions? There is a great deal of public anxiety in this matter. We cannot come to a fair assessment unless we have the fullest possible figures. We therefore urge the hon. Gentleman to give in this answer and subsequent answers very much fuller figures than have been available up to now.

I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that my right hon. Friend is fully aware of the public anxiety in this matter and he shares it, as I have said before. I assure the right hon. Gentleman that the figures which will be published will be the fullest that can be produced.

asked the Minister of Aviation when he proposes to provide adequate and suitable accommodation for the use of the Air Transport Licensing Board.

A thorough survey is now being made and my right hon. Friend hopes soon to be able to offer the Board suitable accommodation in a more convenient place.

I thank the Parliamentary Secretary for that reply. As he knows, not only has the Board had occasion to complain about the inadequacy of the premises, but the many interested parties who have had to attend them suffered inconvenience.

I am aware of the points that the hon. Gentleman has made, and I can assure him that they are appreciated.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he is satisfied that the Air Transport Licensing Board, when dealing with applications by foreign operators, has adequate power to assure itself that the operator is competent to carry out the tour proposed; and if he will introduce legislation to ensure that the public in this country is protected if the tours, when licensed, fail to materialise.

The Air Transport Licensing Board is concerned only with nights by aircraft registered in the United Kingdom. Permission for flights by foreign registered aircraft is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend, and his powers in this connection are adequate.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that, although it may be British flights which are the subject of the applications, foreign operators are submitting applications to the Licensing Board? As some concern has been expressed about that, will the hon. Gentleman look further into the position in order to ensure that the British public, when taking part in such flights, are protected in the event of default by a foreign operator?

I shall certainly look into the point raised by the hon. Gentleman. If foreign operators are applying to the Licensing Board, they are applying to the wrong body.

Is it possible for independent airlines to register their aircraft overseas and, by so doing, by-pass our regulations?

I will look into that point.

asked the Minister of Aviation what proposals he has to improve car parking facilities at London Airport.

Tenders have been invited for the design and construction of a multi-storey garage, to be completed in 1963. In addition, the Ministry of Aviation is discussing with several private concerns the possibility of improving and extending the arrangements for parking outside the airport and for ferrying cars to and from the Central Area.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. In view of the clear need to improve such facilities as exist at present at London Airport, which are certainly inadequate—after all, London is the capital of this country, if not of the whole British Commonwealth—will my hon. Friend give an undertaking that this matter will be pressed on with all possible speed and that we shall have better facilities as soon as we possibly can?

Yes, Sir; I give that undertaking.

Cannot the Parliamentary Secretary give us some news of the proposals to reorganise the management of London Airport under a public corporation rather than—

He cannot on this Question.

asked the Minister of Health what research is being made into the environmental, dietetic and surgical background of poliomyelitis cases in Hull.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will prepare a memorandum on the recent outbreak of poliomyelitis in Hull and the methods adopted to control it.

I understand that the Medical Officer of Health has made extensive investigations and that he will be making his report on them.

Is the Minister aware that many parents are concerned that so little appears to be said or published about general health precautions against poliomyelitis as distinct from innoculation? In view of the importance of investigating the causes of these outbreaks, will the right hon. Gentleman ask the Medical Officer of Health of Hull if, when he publishes his findings, he will consider putting them into simple, non-medical language for the guidance of the general public?

This will be a report, in the first instance, to the city council, but I have no doubt that any lessons arising from it will receive wide publicity and discussion.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement on the supply of anti-polio vaccines in Leicester and throughout the country.

Since August, supplies to Leicester and other authorities have been less than the amounts requested owing to exceptionally heavy demands earlier this year and the failure of a large batch. I have had no request from Leicester for a special allocation.

Is the Minister aware that the statement he is now making (indicates that he has been extremely remiss about the supply of this kind of vaccine? Will he not arrange to have a sufficient supply here to meet any emergency which may arise, in view of the very serious consequences of not being able to provide the appropriate quantity?

No, Sir; this vaccine must be regularly ordered and produced. The time-lag is approximately six months. As there was a very large vaccination campaign in the early spring following the evidence of a recurrence of polio, it was inevitable that we should be short of supplies in the autumn.

Does not the Minister realise that in order to avoid this kind of incident recurring in future people should be encouraged to be vaccinated? Is he not prepared to conduct a campaign so that sufficient vaccine will be available to enable this treatment to be given to all people who are likely to be affected in future?

Yes, Sir. I promoted such a campaign in the spring of this year, with successful results. The consequence was that 40 per cent. more immunisations took place this year than last year.

Is the Minister aware that there is a general shortage of anti-polio vaccine throughout Lancashire, including Blackburn, and as there has now been an outbreak of polio in Blackburn, this is causing grave anxiety? Will not the Minister take steps to increase the sources of manufacture of vaccine in order to insure against a future shortage owing to the failure of one source of supply to pass the tests?

With regard to the immediate position in Lancashire, if any local authority in special difficulties will get in touch with my Department, I will see whether I can help.

asked the Minister of Health with what countries the United Kingdom as made reciprocal arrangements for the provision of medical and hospital services to their respective subjects.

asked the Minister of Health if he will publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT a statement showing with what foreign Governments he has negotiated free medical services equivalent to the National Health Service for British residents and visitors abroad; and what future steps he intends to take in this regard.

Besides the arrangements detailed in my right hon. Friend's reply of 6th March to my hon. Friend, the Member for Ilford, South (Mr. Cooper), an arrangement has been made with West Germany, covering our nationals insured in that country, and their dependants. My right hon. Friend, the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance has constantly in mind the possibilities of making revised or additional agreements.

Are these arrangements working satisfactorily, and are there any prospects of extending these civilised provisions to other countries?

The arrangements are working satisfactorily. As I have just said, negotiations—which usually take place through the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance—are constantly in mind.

Does not my hon. Friend think that to make arrangements of this sort is a much better way of dealing with the problem of foreigners coming to the United Kingdom and using our facilities than suggesting, for instance, that we should tighten up controls on the system? Does she not think, therefore, that the best thing that her Department can possibly do is to ensure that as many of of these reciprocal arrangements as possible are made as quickly as possible?

Yes, Sir, but one of the major difficulties is that so few countries have a health service comparable with our own.

On what date did the arrangement with Western Germany come into force, and may I declare my own interest in this matter?

It came into force two or three months ago. I will give the right hon. Gentleman the specific date.

asked the Minister of Health if he will give the number of dental practitioners within the Oldham area; how many are employed full and part time, respectively, in the school dental service; and what action he proposes to ensure that the dental needs of the area are adequately met.

Twenty-three; two and six; my right hon. Friend has no power to direct dentists to serve in any particular area.

First, would the hon. Lady be good enough to inform us, of the results of the consultations which the Department undertook in March last with local authorities and the professional associations? Secondly, would she say whether in those negotiations or discussions and in subsequent discussions the Department was prepared to consider some initial allowance arrangement such as that which applies in the other professions of the medical world in areas which are under-serviced?

I have no knowledge of the consultations between local authorities and professional organisations to which the hon. Gentleman referred. I will make inquiries about them. The question of an initial allowance in the dental service is different from that allowed in the case of doctors because the general dental service is not run on the same lines.

asked the Minister of Health if he will give the number of doctors and dentists, respectively, at the end of September, 1951, and September, 1961, in the county boroughs and county of Lancashire; and what plans he has to restore to the areas concerned adequate medical and dental services.

Figures at the nearest available dates are: doctors, 1,886 in January, 1951, 2,197 in September, 1961; dentists, 1,103 in July, 1951, 979 in January, 1961. The second part of the Question does not arise as regards doctors; as regards dentists, I would refer the hon. Member to my last reply.

Is the hon. Lady aware that there are 40 areas in Lancashire alone which are under-serviced in both elements, a situation which I believe to be general throughout the older areas of the country? Is the Minister really concerned with ensuring that the under-serviced areas have an equitable and proper proportion of the services for which they generally pay?

I must repeat that my right hon. Friend has no power to direct dentists, but we are aware of the shortage, which is nation-wide. We are taking all the steps that we can to produce the required numbers. New training schools are being provided. But it all takes time.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the substantial fall in the take-up of orange juice and cod-liver oil since the Welfare Foods Amendment Order, S.I., 1961, No. 352, came into force; and if, in view of the consequent adverse effect on the health of mothers and babies, he will restore the subsidy on vitamin supplements which the order abolished.

I am aware of the fall, but do not accept that there will be adverse effects on health.

Does the Minister know the extent of the fall? Is he aware that the evidence available suggests that the drop for orange juice and cod-liver oil has been between 60 and 70 per cent.? As the Parliamentary Secretary said when we debated the Order in April that she did not expect a fall but if there was one the matter would be reconsidered, does the Minister not think that the time has come to reconsider it?

The months immediately following the introduction of charges do not provide a fully satisfactory comparison with the months immediately preceding. I have no reason to doubt that the appropriate vitamin intake is being obtained, though no doubt more will be obtained in future from other sources.

How can the Minister know that? As his hon. Friend said in that debate that the vitamin supplements were still desirable and promised to reconsider the matter if the intake fell, and as the take-up has fallen by 70 per cent., surely the right hon. Gentleman must now reconsider the matter?

The appropriate vitamin element in diet is, of course, desirable, but it is not dependent upon, nor mainly derived from, these supplements. There are many ways in which the nutrition of the population can be watched.

asked the Minister of Health if his attention has been drawn to the joint memorandum of the Medical Defence Union and the Royal College of Nursing relating to surgical operations performed on the wrong patient and on the wrong part of the body; what steps he is taking to ensure that such errors are eliminated in future; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir; I propose to ask hospital authorities to review their relevant procedures.

Is the Minister aware that, quite apart from the cases which have been successfully hushed up, there have been 28 known cases of this kind within the last two years? Does he not agree that this is the result of scandalous carelessness? Will he give an undertaking that the recommendations of the memorandum, which should make it impossible for mistakes of this kind to occur, will be brought to the attention of hospital authorities and that they will be asked to adopt these procedures?

In answer to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's question, I propose to do that, though some modification may be desirable, and I will ask hospitals in the first instance to review their own procedures. I agree that these are all avoidable accidents, and no step should be overlooked which might prevent their occurence.

What have these surgical errors cost the National Health Service in damages or compensation?

I cannot trace that there have been claims in respect of all or, indeed, the majority of them, but if the hon. and learned Gentleman is interested, I will see whether I can obtain figures for him.

asked the Minister of Health how many local authorities have provided residential hostels for patients on discharge from mental hospitals; what is the number of hostels completed; and what is the number on which work has started.

Seven authorities have had loan sanction specifically for this purpose. To date four hostels have been completed and work started on four others.

In view of this appallingly low figure, will the hon. Lady do what she can to secure greater financial resources to local authorities to encourage them to proceed with this most important work?

I do not think that the answer is greater loan sanction. Local authorities have tended to concentrate on the provision of training centres for the mentally sub-normal. I hope that more and more of them will now be able to turn their attention to the provision of hostels for the mentally ill.

Is the hon. Lady aware that the provision of this type of hostel is probably the first priority for the hospital authorities, and that they have asked local authorities to make this provision and the response has been very disappointing? What can she and her right hon. Friend do to encourage local authorities to build more hostels?

Local authorities are aware of the importance that we attach to the provision of these hostels which have such a part to play in the full implementation of the Mental Health Act. We certainly encourage them so to do. The fact that we now have before us the 10-year hospital development plans will show what progress is being made.

asked the Minister of Labour what special steps are being taken to reduce the incidence of industrial accidents, particularly to young persons, in view of the increase in such accidents during 1960.

It is essential that all concerned in industry should review their policy and activities on accident prevention. To this end I have recently written to employers' associations in a number of industries. Last month I called and addressed a conference in Newcastle, attended by both sides of the shipbuilding and ship-repairing industry. Action is being taken to follow-up this successful conference. I shall shortly be discussing further lines of action with the B.E.C. and T.U.C. and in so doing will pay particular attention to accidents to young persons and the need for improved training and supervision of new entrants. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Education recently drew the attention of local education authorities and principals of technical colleges to the importance of safety training in schools and colleges.

Are not the figures for 1960 very disturbing? Is it not desirable to review the adequacy of the Factory Inspectorate and also the conditions relating to safety committees in factories and their machinery of operation?

The hon. and learned Gentleman is quite right. The accident figures last year were extremely disturbing. I think it is not merely a question necessarily of increasing the number of inspectors. I think the hon. and learned Gentleman knows that between 1956 and 1960 the establishment of the Inspectorate rose by 16 per cent. While the inspectors' visits have an important part to play in accident prevention, I must emphasise, and I hope that hon. Members on both sides will emphasise, the even greater importance of urgent action by industry itself.

Would not the right. hon. Gentleman agree that, although the Inspectorate has increased, it is still not anything like adequate to the requirements we now have in mind? In other words, we are still quite unable to get an Inspectorate visit once per annum. Would the right hon. Gentleman say whether any examination is taking place of the incidence of these accidents and into what are the causes, and will he stress that when apprentices are being taught the basis of their crafts safety is one of the things most prominently inculcated?

Again, I agree with what the hon. Gentleman says at the end of his supplementary question, but I think that if he reads the Report of the Chief Inspector of Factories he will see the very large number of points involved and that 65 per cent. of all the accidents have causes such as falling, tripping up, and so on, which are really due, perhaps, to carelessness and lack of safety consciousness among people in industry themselves. I think that that is the thing we have got to get over.