asked the Secretary of State for Air what consideration he has given to putting into service with the Royal Air Force, after appropriate modifications, the Blackburn Buccaneer aircraft, at present in service with the Royal Navy.

This possibility was carefully considered before the development contract for the TSR2 was placed but was rejected.

Is it not the case that as a result of the delays and irresolution in the Air Ministry the R.A.F. now has no long-range, no flying strike aircraft, and no early prospect of one, whereas the Navy has this bomber which combines all these qualities? Could not the right hon. Gentleman be a little less fastidious and accept nine-tenths of a loaf instead of no bread at all?

No, Sir. I think the Air Force position in this is a perfectly satisfactory one. The Canberra is to be fitted with the AS30, a new air-to-surface guided bomb, which will keep it effective for a number of years. It would be uneconomic to replace it except with an aircraft which has a long operational life.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman nevertheless aware that there may be a difficulty if we have to carry the Canberra too far into the future? Is he satisfied that we shall get a replacement for the Canberra before it becomes operationally out of date?

Yes, Sir. The TSR2 is expected to be in service in the mid-'sixties.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will make a statement on the future operational rôle of the Royal Air Force units in South-East Asia.

These units are deployed to assist in the defence of Malaya, for Commonwealth defence and for the preservation of peace in South-East Asia.

Could the right hon. Gentleman elaborate that a little more? Is he not aware that the radius of action of all the aircraft which are stationed in Butterworth and Singapore Island itself is well inside the limits of any prospective enemy target?

I am anxious not to offend the Chinese affiliations which the hon. Member has recently registered, but we aim to provide a balanced force of air defence, strike and reconnaissance aircraft in the theatre, and I think we can achieve this.

asked the Secretary of State for Air on what measurements the official definition of fog, as used in weather forecasts, is based; and what steps he is taking to alter the definition so as to be of greater value to the public who listen to such forecasts.

In weather forecasts intended for the public, the Meteorological Office uses the expressions "fog" and "dense fog" when visibility is expected to be below 200 yards or 55 yards respectively.

Occasionally the term "slight fog" is used when visibility is expected to be between 200 and 1,100 yards.

These criteria have been in use for some years and are, I understand, in line with those used by the railways and the motoring organisations.

I am not aware of any general feeling that they should be altered.

Does not my right hon. Friend think it rather stupid to talk about fog when one can see up to 1,100 yards, the distance from Parliament Square to Nelson's Column? Ought not that, from the public point of view, to be brought down to about 500 yards, instead of 1,100 yards?

This is "slight fog" and 1,100 yards when one is driving a fast car or a railway train is not really all that far.

Will the right hon. Gentleman resist any attempt to cook the figures he has just announced.

asked the Secretary of State for Air to what extent his recruiting drive for airmen has proved a success; and at what estimated cost.

The recruitment of airmen in 1961 was, on the whole, satisfactory, although there are some trades in which we should like to have more recruits.

Expenditure in 1961 on advertising to support airmen recruiting was £85,000.

I regret that other costs cannot be separately identified.

Does not the Minister think that this has been a costly exercise, particularly having in mind that it was designed to undo the damage caused by the premature missile policy of his right hon. Friend, now the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations, who was then Minister of Defence?

If the hon. Member is referring to the figure of £85,000 which I have just read, it is only about £10 per head, which is not a great deal to spend. Many firms in the country with a much smaller turnover than the Air Force would not hesitate to spend such a sum.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if it had not been for the rather premature policy of the then Minister of Defence, this £85,000 on advertisements in the Press to recruit airmen who thought there was no future in piloted aircraft and manned bombers would not have been at all necesary?

We have always had to do a certain amount of advertising. I do not think the difference would have been very great.

asked the Secretary of State for Air to what extent the recruiting figures for 1961 meet the requirements of the Royal Air Force; and if he will make a statement.

After a poor start, aircrew recruiting improved in 1961. Requirements have been met over a considerable part of the year, but we still need more aircrew both for the direct entry and the general list. Recruiting to ground officer branches was fairly satisfactory, but we need more recruits for some professional branches to meet long-term requirements.

Recruitment of ground airmen was broadly satisfactory. There were no problems in the main technical trades, but there were fewer recruits than we should have liked in some administrative and operating trades.

Overall, the recruiting outlook is reasonably satisfactory and attention is being concentrated on improving intakes in the difficult areas.

The Secretary of State has been a little vague in his Answer. Is he satisfied that the target for 1961 has been met, except for one or two categories? Which are those categories? Is he in the same difficulty as the Army with regard to police, drivers, stretcher bearers, and so on? Can he be a little more definite about the categories in which there is a short-fall? How far is the total now away from the total forecast last April?

Our main difficulties have been in the recruitment of police, some radar operators, catering assistants, and various unskilled trades of that kind. As regards officers, the technical, medical, dental and educational branches have given us some difficulty. As regards aircrew, which is the problem I was most concerned about at the time of the last Air Estimates, the latest figures—not over the whole year, but over recent months—are satisfactory.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how many times demonstrations have been given to officers of the Royal Air Force and officials of his Department showing the capabilities and operational rôles of the Handley Page Dart Herald aircraft; and how many he intends to order for the Royal Air Force as a result.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if the military version of the Handley Page Dart Herald satisfies the operational requirements of the Royal Air Force as a close-support military transport; whether there is any comparable aircraft immediately available at no greater price; and if he will make a statement.

There has been one demonstration of the Herald specifically for the Royal Air Force, though, of course, the aircraft has been seen on a number of other occasions.

The Herald is one of the aircraft which are being considered for the light cargo military transport rôle. No decision has, however, been taken, about an order and I am therefore unable to make a statement.

I assume that the Minister has also seen the recent demonstration of the Avro 748. I hope that he will assure the House that he is not prepared to be a shuttlecock between the aircraft companies and the present Minister of Aviation. Is he not aware that the Herald at the moment can do the job? It is certainly cheaper than the Avro 748 and it is readily available. To what extent does the Avro 748 compete with the Herald?

We are at present assessing the strong and weak points of all the aircraft we are considering for this rôle. Until this assessment is completed I am not in a position to make a statement.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the matter which is of paramount importance is that the R.A.F. should have the right aircraft at the right price as soon as possible? Will he impress on his right hon. Friends that many Members of the House and people outside would consider it iniquitous if the R.A.F. were denied this aircraft merely because Handley Page had not received a take-over bid which it found acceptable or, indeed, if it were found that this contract was being used as an instrument of blackmail to force a merger upon the company to comply with a policy which has been arranged later than the development of this aircraft?

I am naturally anxious to get the best possible aircraft for the Service.

Can the Minister be a little more forthcoming? Can he not give us an assurance that the only consideration will be the needs of the Royal Air Force and that he will not allow the difficulties of his right hon. Friends either to persuade him to take the wrong aircraft or to unduly delay placing the order if the Royal Air Force for Service reasons deems it necessary to do so now?

I must await the final assessment of the qualities and deficiencies of the different aircraft under consideration before I can make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how many Royal Air Force and Women's Royal Air Force personnel are employed at Chequers; on what duties they are engaged; and what is the total annual cost to public funds.

Thirteen members of the Women's Royal Air Force work at Chequers as cooks and stewardesses.

The gross annual cost to air votes is £7,500, but the Chequers Trust repays £600 a year and the cost of food for the W.R.A.F. personnel, which is about £950 a year.

In view of the comparatively few week-ends in the year when the Prime Minister is at Chequers, is not this a scandalous waste of public money and woman power? Would not there be a substantial economy if part-time civilian domestic staff were hired for the odd week-ends?

No. This subject has been studied on several occasions and we are satisfied that this is the best way to run Chequers.

How do these figures compare with the figures applicable during the period when the then Mr. Attlee was the incumbent at Chequers?

The figures repaid from the Trust were £800 and £600, but I have not got details of the total cost here. I can tell the House one interesting difference. Today the members of the W.R.A.F. are all volunteers. At that time it was in the hands of another Service and they had to be drafted.

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain to the House why this is the business of the Royal Air Force? What has it got to do with this?

That is very easy to explain. The Services have taken it in turns since the war. On security grounds it was thought better during the war that the Services should run the establishment, and it has continued on that basis ever since. I think that there are very good grounds for it.

In view of the unsatisfactory reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Air to what extent our contribution to the Second Tactical Air Force meets the undertaking given in the modified Brussels Treaty; and if he will make a statement as to the future rôle of Royal Air Force, Germany.

Our Air Forces in Germany accord with our Treaty commitments.

As regards the second part of the Question, it is our policy to concentrate on the strike and reconnaissance roles.

No change in this policy is planned.

The Treaty talked about the provision of a tactical air force. Since 1955 there have been substantial reductions in the strength of R.A.F., Germany. Will the Secretary of State say by how many we have reduced? Will he give an assurance that there is no intention to reduce the existing strength of R.A.F. Germany?

The hon. Member will not expect me to give exact figures of the number of aircraft. There has been no reduction, but some strengthening, in hitting power, although there has been a reduction in the overall number of aircraft. This results from the fact that, with the introduction of more modern aircraft, a smaller number of aircraft is able to hit harder than the larger number we had before.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will give a list showing the number of passes in Advanced levels of the General Certificate of Education obtained by each of the cadets admitted to the Royal Air Force College at Cranwell in the last intake.

Of this month's entry to Cranwell twenty-nine cadets had two or more "A" level passes, the normal standard, and seven had equivalent qualifications.

The remaining two cadets had each obtained one "A" level pass and narrowly failed to gain the second; in other respects they were highly suitable.

What are the special qualities which the Selection Board takes into account when it admits those with only one pass at Advanced level when generally the condition laid down is that cadets must have two passes at Advanced level?

There are obviously borderline cases—when somebody is very close to passing his second "A" level, when there has been a special recommendation by the headmaster, or when someone for some reason is thought to be peculiarly well qualified for absorbing the Cranwell course.

Is it only recommendation from the headmaster or is it other influential people who are able to push cadets through, as against those from working-class homes who do not perhaps have influential people behind them to the same extent?

I can assure the hon. Member that there is no question of class discrimination or anything of that kind. He appreciates as well as I do that some boys, who have obviously got it in them to be good officers, perhaps even good commanders, may not have at that particular moment in their lives exactly the right academic qualifications. I should be very sorry if we limited ourselves absolutely rigidly by too strict an adherence to the standards we lay down. We stick to them fairly rigidly but it is important to have some loophole to bring in people who obviously have got the qualifications.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how many Thor missile bases are to be dismantled; and what alternative weapons are intended to replace them.

No decision has yet been taken on the rundown of the Thor force. As the House knows, we plan to base our deterrent in the latter part of this decade mainly on the Mk. 2 Vulcan armed with Skybolt.

But is it not a fact that a decision to dismantle the Thor has recently been discussed? How much longer does the right hon. Gentleman intend to waste 4,000 skilled men and millions of pounds a year in the upkeep of the Thor? Also, if the reason for considering the dismantling of the Thor is its vulnerability, will not dependence in its place on the Skybolt merely mean extending the possibility of annihilation from East Anglia to the whale of the country?

That is quite a mouthful. We are, of course, continually studying all our weapon systems to see how far they need modification or replacement. No decision has been taken yet about the period for which the Thor will be kept in service. As to the last part of the supplementary question, it is our firm belief that peace is most effectively protected by the deterrent policy and, where our country is concerned, by a British independent contribution to that policy.

The right hon. Gentleman says definitely that no decision has been taken. Has he seen an article in The Times this morning, in a prominent position, by its defence correspondent, which states that as a result of the dis cussions leading to the White Paper which is to come before the House next month decisions have been taken—

Order. The right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question seems to be out of order, because he appears to be asking the Minister to deny or confirm a newspaper observation.

I beg your pardon, Mr. Speaker, for having put my supplementary question in that form. Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that, in preparation for the White Paper on defence Which is to be submitted to the House in February, no definite decisions or discussions have taken place to do away with the Thor missile bases?

With all respect to The Times and to the right hon. Gentleman, I can only repeat that no decision has been taken.

If no decision has been taken, why not? Does not everybody know that these missile bases are no longer of any value?

No, Sir. On the contrary, we are satisfied that the Thor still makes an important contribution to the deterrent. This is, in fact, the largest concentration of intermediate ballistic missiles on this side of the Atlantic.

While I do not dispute the last statement, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he has not learned that the whole strategy of N.A.T.O., as publicly expounded by General Norstad and others, is to get rid of these first-strike weapons in favour of second-strike capability? Is he not giving this very careful consideration? Also, can he give a date when he will be able to tell the House when the Thor bases are to be dismantled?

As we have explained to the House in the context of the decision on Blue Streak, we should, naturally, prefer hard weapons—those which are invulnerable and difficult to attack—to soft ones. Nevertheless, in the present state of the art, soft weapons like the Thor still represent an important part of the deterrent.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give, for the latest year for which figures are available, the number of babies born to East Kilbride mothers at home, and in various maternity hospitals and homes in Lanarkshire.

In 1961, of 814 babies born to East Kilbride mothers, 256 were born at home, 274 in hospitals in Lanarkshire and 284 in hospitals and nursing homes outside the county.

May we not have details of the various hospitals and maternity homes within Lanarkshire to which East Kilbride mothers have to travel? Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that many of these places are situated many miles from East Kilbride and that this may involve a husband in the sacrifice of a day's wages in order to visit his wife? Further, is he aware that this is an astonishing reflection on the Government's new hospital building programme if Scotland's biggest new town cannot have a maternity unit for the large numbers of babies born there?

If the hon. Lady wants details of all the hospitals in Lanarkshire to which these mothers go to have their children born, I should be delighted to give them to her, but that is not what she asked for in her Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the need for a revision of the law relating to burglary and fire insurance in Scotland; and if he will set up a Committee to inquire into this need and make recommendations.

My right hon. Friend has heard no suggestions that this aspect of the law is unsatisfactory, but if the hon. and learned Gentleman will inform me of any difficulty that has come to his notice I shall be glad to consider it.

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that many people think that the doctrine of no-claim bonus should apply to burglary and fire insurance as it does to certain other forms of insurance? While insurance policies undoubtedly arise from a contract, there is no equality as between the insurance companies and the policy holders; the policy holders have to take it or leave it. Is he not aware that there is a great deal of discontent with the present situation in which the doctrine of no-claim bonus does not apply to burglary or fire insurance, especially in cases where policy holders have paid premiums over long periods without ever having a burglary or fire?

When the Law Reform Committee last looked into insurance law in Scotland, it recommended that there was no need for further legislation on the subject.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in his forthcoming review of the present Education Authority Bursary Regulations, he proposes to adopt a hardship criterion that will ensure uniformity with students' allowances for university and similar awards.

My right hon. Friend is inviting the interested bodies to take part in discussion on these Regulations next month. He will consider their views before deciding what proposals should be included when Regulations are drafted.

When considering these views, will the Secretary of State bear in mind the importance of allowing young people over the age of 15 who would benefit from a further period of full-time education at school to have the maximum financial encouragement to take it? Will he also ensure that there is no financial discrimination against young people staying on at school compared with young people going on to various forms of further education?

My right hon. Friend will take note of those points.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he proposes to take regarding the recommendations of the Special Committee of the Scottish Advisory Council on child care in remand homes.

My right hon. Friend has asked local authorities to submit proposals for improving their present remand home arrangements. He has also asked the local authority associations for their views on the more general recommendations. Revised Remand Home Rules are now being prepared and will be issued shortly.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there will be strong and widespread support for the main recommendation of the Committee that remand homes should be taken over by the Secretary of State? Is he aware that this applies particularly to Dundee, where there is a long-standing problem of a very inadequate remand home? Will he in the meantime give the Dundee Corporation every encouragement to go ahead with the building of a new and adequate remand home pending the Secretary of State taking over the financial responsibility for it?

We are well aware of the Dundee problem and hope that, now that we have the Report, we shall be able to make progress in solving it.

As the main recommendation of the Committee calls for a decision not so much by local authorities but by the Secretary of State about the taking over of remand homes, when can we expect a statement about it?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that I ought not to comment further until we have heard the views of the local authorities.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that very scathing comments are made about the quality of existing remand homes? If the Secretary of State is not prepared to accept the Committee's major recommendation that the Secretary of State should take over remand homes and is passing the financial burden on to the local authorities, may we have an undertaking that in that circumstance the Secretary of State will take account of this in the next general grant proposals?

I give no undertaking in that respect but would remind the hon. Gentleman that on 3rd January local authorities were asked to submit proposals for meeting the shortcomings in the service and that my right hon. Friend intends shortly to make an Order specifying the date when premises used as remand homes will have to have his certificate of approval.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the nature of the correspondence he has received from the Cumnock Town Council on the question of the future of the hospital at Ballochmyle; and the nature of his reply.

The town council has pressed for the retention of general hospital services at Ballochmyle. My right hon. Friend has told it that the Western Regional Hospital Board's proposals for hospital services in Ayrshire, which he is now considering, include the continuation of some general hospital services at Ballochmyle to serve the people in the Cumnock area.

Is the Minister aware that there is a widespread fear in that area that in some new economy drive this hospital may be closed down, or that some of its services may be seriously curtailed? Can he give an assurance that that is not so?

As I live in the area myself, naturally I am as well aware as the hon. Gentleman who represents it what the people are feeling. The answer is that the matter is still under consideration. I cannot go further than that.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what amounts of cod liver oil and orange juice were distributed by Ayr County Council Health Department for the twelve weeks starting 4th July, 1960, and for a similar period starting 1st September, 1961; and what was the percentage decrease in the amount of each welfare food.

In the twelve weeks from 4th July, 1960, 23,105 bottles of orange juice and 3,906 bottles of cod liver oil were issued by Ayr County Council. In the twelve weeks from 4th September, 1961, 5,047 bottles of orange juice and 1,038 bottles of cod liver oil were issued. This represents a decrease of 78·2 per cent. for orange juice and 70·9 per cent. for cod liver oil.

Is the Under-Secretary aware of the great concern of the medical officer of health and the members of the Ayr County Council because of this steep decrease—an 80 per cent. decrease—in welfare foods? Would he not agree that it was a wrong decision to impose charges? Is he further aware that many knowledgeable people in the medical world in Scotland think that it was a shocking thing for the Secretary of State for Scotland to lend his support to charges being placed on these welfare foods? Could he indicate whether the repercussions are to the effect that there can only be a great increase in illness and the spread of more disease among the weaker and poorer-paid sections of our community?

I think the hon. Gentleman has got his facts wrong.

On a point of order. May I ask for your Ruling, Mr. Speaker? I have given the percentage decrease, and I have based my supplementary question on that. How can it be wrong, if the Answer was given by the hon. Gentleman himself?

I am afraid that some difference about figures between the hon. Gentleman and the Minister does not raise a point of order for me.

Is not the Minister worried and shocked by what these figures reveal? When he found what the figures revealed, did he try to find out what has been happening in the rest of Scotland? Is he not ashamed that the policy of his Government is militating against the health of young children in Scotland, and is he satisfied that these mean, petty increases by the Government should have this detrimental effect on the health of the children?

The hon. Lady must remember that we have not got to the election yet. I am neither worried, shocked nor ashamed, and the reason is that I come to a different conclusion from that of the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr. Manuel). The important thing is not the amount of welfare foods being consumed, but whether or not—and this is the Answer that I gave before Christmas—the health of the mothers and babies has suffered. That is what we will keep our eyes on, and at the moment there is no evidence that it is suffering.

The Minister has said that he will keep his eyes on the health of the children and mothers. In other words, have we to wait complacently until mothers and children are ill as the result of these cuts? Is that what the Minister is waiting for?

Answer.

Owing to the most unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will take an early opportunity to raise the matter and give the hon. Gentleman more information in an Adjournment debate.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the wide disparity in the basis of assessing houses during the recent revaluation in Scotland; and what action he proposes to take to ensure that a uniform basis of assessment will be used by the assessors at the revaluation to be made in 1966.

No, Sir. It is impossible to form a view on this question until all valuation appeals have been decided. My right hon. Friend proposes in due course to ask the Scottish Valuation Advisory Council to review the arrangements made for the revaluation and to advise on any matters appearing to it to require further consideration before the next revaluation.

Is the Minister aware that some valuation appeal committees refuse to accept comparisons with subjects outside their valuation areas? While I am pleased to learn from the hon. Gentleman this afternoon that some reference will be made to the Scottish Valuation Advisory Council, may I ask him to stress the difficulties which have arisen as a result of the refusal of some of these appeal committees in this instance?

The best thing to do is to wait until all the appeals have been dealt with.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many children under the age of 17 were fitted with false teeth under the National Health Service in the years 1951, 1956, and 1961.

The earliest figures available are for 1954, when 2,134 children were provided with false teeth. The number in 1956 was 3,006, and in 1961—for which a final figure is not yet available—it is estimated at about 5,000.

Does the Minister realise that these figures indicate a serious decline in the health of Scottish children's teeth? Will he ensure that his Department gives the maximum publicity to the dental health education campaign, which started on Monday of this week?

I will certainly do that. As the hon. Member knows, it is largely because of my right hon. Friend's Department that the campaign is taking place.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that the best thing for them to do would be to drink more milk, particularly in school?

And orange juice.

Not only to drink more milk, but to eat fewer biscuits with it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, if he will take steps to permit the widening of the scope of Edenhall Hospital at Musselburgh, so that an out-patient department can be established to meet the needs of the people of Midlothian.

This hospital has a specialised function and the needs of war pensioners must continue to take priority. My right hon. Friend is, however, asking the South-Eastern Regional Hospital Board to examine the suggestions that have been made and will write to the hon. Member in due course.

Is the Minister aware that there is a ward in this hospital which is reserved for such patients as the Minister has described, but that it is never used, and that people in the surrounding area must of necessity go to Edinburgh for examination, which costs quite a lot in time and money? Is he also aware that there is need for an outpatient department in this hospital and that the local general practitioners are in favour of it? Cannot the Minister consider the matter again?

I think that the hon. Gentleman cannot have understood my original Answer, because the matter is being examined. There is no question of reconsideration; it is under examination now.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many ambulances are operating in Midlothian; and whether he is satisfied that this number is sufficient to cover the needs of that area.

Six ambulances operate from depots in Midlothian, and the area is also served by ambulances from Edinburgh; the number of journeys per ambulance suggests that the existing arrangements provide adequate cover.

Is the Minister aware that in the south-east part of the constituency of Midlothian some patients are carried by private contractors, that there are great complaints about the delay, and that when ambulances do come to collect patients they operate like a public service collecting three or four patients in the same ambulance, though they do not necessarily go to the same hospital, thus causing great pain and discomfort? Will he consider the importance of having more ambulances for this area?

The average number of journeys is two journeys per ambulance per day, and that does not seem excessive. If the hon. Gentleman has any particular case in mind and would care to let me know about it, I should be delighted to examine it.

The Minister will be aware that in the last few days I have sent him details of a case in which an ambulance was very late in arriving after an accident had taken place, and was then manned only by the driver. Will he look at this problem when examining the case raised by my hon. Friend?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the increase over the previous year in the total strength of the police force in Scotland at 31st December, 1961; and how far this is below establishment.

During 1961, the actual total male and female strength of the Scottish police increased by 346. The authorised establishment also increased during the year by 433 and on 31st December, 1961, the actual strength was 566 below establishment.

Would my hon. Friend agree that these figures are moderately encouraging? Will he continue to ensure that transfers from one force to another, and promotion outwith their own forces for the abler police officers, will continue, so that new recruits can get a good opportunity in their new career?

Yes, Sir. The main shortage is still in the Glasgow area, but even there the position is improving. I note the hon. Member's other point.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is satisfied that there are sufficient facilities for forest management research available in Scotland to private and State forestry owners; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. The research programme which the Forestry Commission is conducting and financing in Scotland covers forestry management as well as other aspects of forestry. The Scottish Woodland Owners' Association is consulted about the programme, and the research results are made available to private forestry owners.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many forestry interests in Scotland are not at all satisfied about the research facilities available? Is he further aware that a northern country like Scotland has a distinct advantage in timber production, and that in fact we have a far bigger acreage than England? Can he possibly give an assurance that in the new industries which are coming in for timber production we shall not lose out to England because all the research facilities are situated in the south of England and not in Scotland?

I should be very pleased to give my hon. Friend the assurance that we shall always watch this point very carefully, but at the present time my right hon. Friend is satisfied that forest research in Scotland is receiving proper attention.

Will the hon. Gentleman give the number of students at management research colleges and say how many are sent by private woodland owners and the cost per student? Is not this another subsidy to private ownership?

No. We have under discussion in this Question forest management research carried out by the Forestry Commission. There is no question of students being involved here at all.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will introduce a system of financial grants to assist and encourage persons who are anxious to own their own homes.

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend's proposals to encourage private building in Scotland are set out in the White Paper Housing in Scotland and, in so far as they require legislation, are embodied in the Housing (Scotland) Bill.

Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that the terms of that reply are a repudiation of both his and his party's election promises about having a property-owning democracy? Does he not realise that interest rates are so prodigious that it is very difficult for young people to own their own homes? Will he not at the very least agree that they are entitled to have the same subsidies that farmers get when they build houses on their own farms?

I think that a large part of the hon. Member's supplementary question is entirely by the way, but I am afraid that I do not agree with him. If he looks at the Bill he will see that there are schemes for private co-operative ownership on the Scandinavian model which would be a great help to the very kind of people he has in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what facilities for the treatment of acute cases will be provided at Law Hospital when the new hospital is functioning at Strathclyde, Motherwell.

Law Hospital will have 150 acute beds covering the major specialities of medicine, surgery, gynaecology, and orthopaedics.

Can the hon. Gentleman assure us that this small number of beds, 150, at this hospital will be able to attract the consultant staff, both medical and surgical, whom one would want in these modern days to have for our people, and can he also assure us that when the acute cases number is run down to 150 this will still continue as a nurses' training establishment?

I should like notice of the latter part of that supplementary question.

Surely we can have an answer to the first part? Surely when the Secretary of State was examining this and finally decided that 150 beds would be needed for acute cases this was a matter to which he ought to have given serious consideration—the attracting of the proper staff?

The hon. Lady appreciates that it will be working in collaboration with the other two hospitals at Strathclyde and Coatbridge.

Can the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that he will not so scatter the beds for acute services that it is not possible to provide Lanarkshire with a decent, large-sized hospital which will be centrally situated to meet the needs of most people in the area and which will be able to provide all the medical and surgery facilities which modern medicine requires?

That is precisely the intention of my right hon. Friend.

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that it is most unfair to the board of management of Law Hospital if it is not made clear in the very near future indeed to them by the Western Region Hospital Board how far they may expect to proceed with their own proposals for future developments at Law Hospital following the decision of the Secretary of State? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there are many problems which have to be studied and that his Answer today cannot possibly be a reassurance to Law Hospital?

I am very well aware that many points have to be discussed and details are in the process of being planned and worked out now.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the new provisions will be available in the west of Scotland for the treatment of and research into rheumatological diseases.

Working drawings for the rheumatology unit are in the course of preparation. The Western Regional Hospital Board hopes that work will start in the autumn of this year.

Since there have been so many delays in the provision of this, and since over half the population of Scotland is at this moment and always has been denied these facilities, will the Under-Secretary of State assure us that this date really will be honoured and that I shall not at this time next year have to be asking the Question which I have been asking in the House for a very long time?

I think the fact that this date has gone back a bit shows how very dangerous it is to make estimates. All I can assure the hon. Lady is that we are as anxious as she is to press ahead with the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many officers retired from Scottish police forces are receiving pensions under the provisions of the Police Pensions Acts; and what is the range of the amounts of individual pensions.

There were 3,870 officers retired from Scottish police forces in receipt of pensions at 15th May, 1960, which is the latest available figure. The information requested in the second part of the Question is not available.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how the number of deaths from lung cancer and bronchitis in Scotland compares with that in England and Wales.

The death rate from lung cancer in Scotland in 1960 was 46·5 per 100,000 population compared with 48·3 in England and Wales. The death rate from bronchitis was 42·5 in Scotland compared with 58·2 in England and Wales.

In view of the association of these diseases, particularly bronchitis, with air pollution, and in view of the fact that certain areas of Scotland are very vulnerable, because of the prevailing winds, to polluted air carried into their midst, will he tell us what research is being done into air pollution in different types of localities in Scotland and what assistance is given to local authorities to get the pollution officers they need?

I should rather like to look at that point which the hon. Member has raised about pollution and make inquiries into it. As for clean air, my right hon. Friend is pressing local authorities and having some success in getting them to implement clean air schemes.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will give instructions for the children's unit at Milesmark Hospital, Dunfermline, to be reopened.

The hon. Member has provided particulars of two cases where there was delay in arranging for children to go to alternative hospitals, and my right hon. Friend is investigating the circumstances with the hospital authorities. The interests of seriously ill children are, however, not served by dispersing provision beyond the point at which adequate specialised staff and supporting facilities can be maintained, and the extended use of Milesmark for old people is very desirable.

I am not quite sure what the Answer means, but may I say that there is widespread indignation in my constituency by the local authority, by doctors and general practitioners, and by patients at the closing of their children's unit? It means that now they sometimes have to cross the ferry for examination at centres as far distant as Leith. Will the hon. Gentleman look into this point of making available again this small children's unit—of only 12 beds, I think—at Milesmark Hospital?

I do not think I can go as far as that. It may be that those in the hon. Gentleman's constituency who are indignant will be glad to hear that the regional board is looking into the possibilities of first-aid treatment of actually ill children where there may be delay due to transport difficulties.

What reply has the hon. Gentleman made to the protests from general practitioners in the area about the very serious effects of the closure of this hospital? Does he recognise that there is in central West Fife widespread indignation and anger at the crumbs which have fallen from the Secretary of State's table in his recently announced hospital programme?

I am not aware of what was said in the second part of the supplementary question, and as for the first, I should require notice.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the Reid Committee on Conveyancing and Registration of Title to Land is likely to report.

I expect that the Committee will submit its Report later this year.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this Committee was appointed more than two-and-a-half years ago? Does he not regard that as a reasonable time for the Committee to investigate the matter and submit its Report?

We have consulted Lord Reid, and he is aware of the urgency of the Report. I am sure that it will be available this year.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the Guest Committee on Licensing is likely to submit its Second Report dealing with the Sale of Excisable Liquor in areas of housing development and re-development.

I understand that the Second Report of Lord Guest's Committee will probably be submitted during the latter part of this year, or early next year.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that here, again, we have a Committee which was appointed two-and-a-half years ago? Does he not agree that something is needed to expedite the work of these Committees? For example, would it not be worth the hon. Gentleman's while to investigate how often they meet?

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that Lord Guest's remit was dealt with in two parts, and one very complicated part has been reported on already.

Am I to understand from the Answers given by the Under-Secretary to these two Questions that both of these Committees are working to rule?

They are both, we trust, working effectively.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many approved schools are managed by Focal authorities and how many by voluntary organisations; and what is the number of pupils in each category.

Of the twenty-two approved schools in Scotland, two are managed by Glasgow education authority and the remainder by voluntary organisations. On 24th January, there were 169 boys in the two authority schools, and 1,151 boys and 243 girls in the other schools.

Do not those figures show the total inadequacy of the present accommodation for such young people? What action has the Minister in view to meet the recently-issued Regulations, and the conditions of accommodation and the provision of teachers for these children?

There has been a great increase in committals during the year, which has admittedly led to deficiencies in certain categories. There is a responsibility on authorities to take steps to remove deficiencies, and we hope that further accommodation will become available during the coming year.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that some of these voluntary bodies are self-appointed, and sometimes not very representative of the local communities they serve? What steps is he taking to make sure, for instance, of the implementation of earlier recommendations that local authority representatives should be on these voluntary bodies?

In nearly all cases there are enough education authority representatives on the voluntary bodies.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what are the qualifications he proposes for headmasters and teachers in approved schools to comply with his recent Regulations.

My right hon. Friend does not propose to lay down specific qualifications, since staffing requirements of individual schools depend on the age, sex and personal needs of the pupils; but he would expect all teaching posts to be filled, wherever possible, by persons holding appropriate teaching qualifications. For senior appointments requiring his prior approval, he would attach great importance to personal qualities together with appropriate experience in education or social and youth service.

How many of these schools at present have headmasters who possess such qualifications? Would not the Under-Secretary agree that, in addition to those teaching qualifications, such headmasters should hold a social sciences certificate?

I should like notice of the hon. Gentleman's last point. As to senior appointments, we are very well satisfied with the staff we have available at the present time.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent, when local inquiries are held into the siting of direction signs, Belisha beacons, parking meters and the obstructions on pavements in cities in Scotland, he gives consideration to ensuring that pedestrians can walk about in reasonable comfort and with freedom of movement.

Local authorities are responsible in the cities for the erection of traffic signs and parking meters. In these matters, my right hon. Friend's powers are primarily concerned with the movement of traffic on the roads. We have no knowledge, to date, of problems from the pedestrian side.

Will my hon. Friend take my hon. Friend for a walk in some of the streets of London to see how clutered up the pavements are, and how difficult it is to walk along them in the rush hour, and will he give an assurance that the same disastrous "Marpling" conditions will not arise in our Scottish cities?

I trust that the Scottish local authorities will take note of my hon. Friend's views.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations the working party, set up to examine water supplies for Central Scotland, has had with the County Council of Dunbartonshire and other interested parties regarding the scheme to supply water from Loch Lomond.

The local water authorities primarily concerned, including Dunbarton County Council, are directly represented on this working party, which has also kept in touch with other authorities less directly affected.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this suggestion has already caused great concern locally? Is he further aware that any intention to ride roughshod over other interests, particularly fishing and boating interests, will be strongly opposed?

There is no question of riding roughshod over anyone; the matter is still under consideration.

Will the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland represent to his right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government that this proposal is on all fours with the proposal of the Manchester Corporation to extract water from Ullswater? Would the Government—

Order. That is a different question, and a different Minister.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The principle is the same—

The rules of order are also the same.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker—

I do not think that was a point of order. If the hon. Member has another one, I will hear him.

What I suggest is that a new principle is emerging; and that in both Scotland and England large local authorities are now wanting to extract water from large and beautiful lakes of which a great deal of social use is made. It is the same principle.

I understand the hon. Gentleman's argument, but I do not think that it helps very much on the material point of order.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what methods he uses for keeping himself informed of the decisions of local authorities.

Local authorities themselves report their decisions in matters on which my right hon. Friend requires information in pursuance of his statutory responsibilities. More generally, he is kept informed of local authority opinion through day-to-day contacts between his Departments, including their inspectorates, and the local authority associations and individual local authorities. My right hon. Friend and other Scottish Ministers also have frequent opportunities for meeting local authority representatives themselves

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I have in my hand a letter, addressed by the Scottish Office to the Town Clerk of Falkirk, the gist of which is that one of the local newspapers reported a certain decision of the Falkirk Town Council, and certain reasons for it, and that the Secretary of State would like to know whether that decision was reached, and for those reasons? Does the Under-Secretary of State consider that a proper, or even a reputable, way of keeping in touch?

I should have to look into the matter before giving a decision.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is now able to give a date for the commencement of building of the technical college at Motherwell.

The latest information provided by the education authority gives the estimated starting date as February, 1964.

May I recall to the Under-Secretary's notice the fact that in 1958 I was given an assurance that this college was to be started in January, 1960, and completed in August, 1963? Does he also remember that in November of last year he told me that, because the technical facilities in Lanarkshire were so good, it was not necessary to treat this project as a high priority? Has he since discovered that his statement about the technical facilities in Lanarkshire was wrong?

If I remember correctly, what I said to the hon. Gentleman on a previous occasion was that the local authority had taken this view, which was why it had not given high priority to this proposal. It was not until July of last year that we received specific proposals from the Lanarkshire local authority. I share the hon. Gentleman's concern, and should like to make headway as much as he would.

Surely, the Secretary of State can do something to bring forward the date from February, 1964. Is not the Under-Secretary aware of a case that my hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell (Mr. Lawson) and I brought to his notice of a shocking lack of facilities in Lanarkshire for some of our young technical students? With that information to hand, the Secretary of State must be able to do something to influence the local authority to get a move on with the building of this school.

We will certainly do what we can, and I welcome the hon. Lady's support. The position is that in July last we received the proposals, which were discussed with the local authority. The local authority is considering the matter further, and I understand that it hopes to submit further proposals to us during the course of next month.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give Sutherland County Council additional assistance for building two-roomed houses for elderly persons living alone in Helmsdale and elsewhere where they are needed.

Sutherland County Council is already aware that remote-area subsidy, in addition to the basic Exchequer subsidy, would be available for two-apartment houses provided for such special needs.

Will my hon. Friend take immediate action in regard to an ex-Service man who served in two world wars, and who is threatened today with eviction because his house has been sold over his head?

As I think my hon. Friend knows, I must leave this sort of decision to the county council, which knows all the circumstances.

What is the basic subsidy in respect of this? Is it £32, or is it now £12?

The hon. Gentleman had better wait until we come to that point in Committee.

asked the Minister of Transport whether the recent announcement by the London Transport Executive of a modification in the plans for the proposed Victoria Line now makes it possible for him to authorise the commencement of the work of construction.

asked the Minister of Transport whether the reduced cost of constructing the Victoria line underground railway resulting from the realignment proposed by the London Transport Executive makes it possible for him to authorise the commencement of this project.

I have nothing to add to the Answer I gave to the hon. Member for Islington, East (Mr. Fletcher) on 24th January.

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that that reply will cause profound disappointment to many thousands of frustrated, weary travellers in north-east London? Does he further realise that the conditions which obtained on London's roads last Monday—though, in that instance, due to unfortunate circumstances—are likely to be the normal experience in a few years' time, and does he not think, therefore, that this adds urgency to the need for a start to be made on the construction of this vitally necessary new tube?

As I explained last week, this is an extremely expensive project which would make an estimated loss of about £3 million a year, and in the present economic circumstances my right hon. Friend does not feel justified in giving the order for a start to be made.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that it is nearly fifty years since a new tube railway was built in London? Is it not about time that a little more history was made?