asked the Secretary of State for Air if the agreement with Martin Baker Aircraft, Ltd., in respect of Chalgrove Airfield, has yet been signed.

No, Sir.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I raised the matter two years ago, on 31st March, 1960, and that on 8th December, 1960, I was informed by the Under-Secretary of State that only one or two matters of small detail remained to be settled? May I know what those points of detail are? Furthermore, does the original assurance still stand, that the land will be offered back to the original owners as agricultural land at current market price when the company ceases to have use for it for its present purpose?

A public local inquiry was held by the War Works Commission in February of this year. The firm, not unnaturally, wants to await the result of the inquiry before it signs the agreement and before everything is finally settled.

With regard to my hon. Friend's second point, I understand that the firm has made it clear that it would give a first option to the original owners—I think that is the position—if it terminated its lease.

Might I press my right hon. Friend to be a little clearer about this? Will he reassure me and the House that when the company ceases to wish to use the airfield for the purpose of testing ejector seats it will then offer the land back to the original owners as agricultural land at current prices in accordance with the undertaking originally given?

That is the situation as I understand it.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what hospital facilities are available to the wives of airmen at North Luffenham in cases of confinement.

Service wives at North Luffenham may use either the National Health Service maternity facilities or those provided by the Royal Air Force Hospital at Nocton Hall.

Can the right hon. Gentleman be satisfied with the present arrangements when some of the wives who are already in labour have to be sent by road to hospital 50 miles away with no qualified person in attendance to deal with any emergency en route? Does he not think this a disgraceful and scandalous state of affairs? Will he bring this sort of thing to an end without further delay?

I do not think that the situation is a scandalous one. We should, of course, like to have even better facilities than we have, but what we have compares very reasonably with the civilian facilities available in the area.

As North Luffenham is in my constituency, might I make it clear to my right hon. Friend that we have all the health facilities in Rutland available for anyone from North Luffenham who cares to make use of them? This is contrary to the view that some people seem to have about my county.

We should like a little more information. Is it not the case that some wives of Service personnel have to go fifty miles for their confinement? If that is the case, ought not something to be done about it?

There are facilities at North Luffenham, but they are not on a large scale, and some wives of airmen prefer to go to Nocton Hall for their confinement, and this is some distance off. They have a choice.

In view of the very unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what facilities were afforded by his department to Mr. Chapman Pincher, of the Daily Express newspaper, to investigate the effectiveness of Great Britain's hydrogen bombs.

Mr. Chapman Pincher was given facilities to visit Headquarters Bomber Command and a Bomber Command station.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in its issue of 19th March the Daily Express made clear that the Air Ministry had offered unique facilities to Mr. Chapman Pincher to see everything at one of our chief bomber stations and that no vital facts were withheld from him? Is the right hon. Gentleman able to square that with the statement which he made a week earlier in the Air Estimates debate, on 12th March:

"I am not prepared to explain here the exact details of our readiness or dispersal systems."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 12th March, 1962; Vol. 655. c. 909.]

When he could not explain them to Parliament, how was it that Mr. Pincher was able to go and see all about them?

I thought Mr. Pincher wrote some very well-informed articles, but I am not, of course, responsible for everything that he wrote.

Will the right hon. Gentleman assure us that Members of Parliament who want to write articles on this subject will be given facilities equal to those given to Mr. Chapman Pincher?

Similar facilities have been given in the past to hon. Members belonging to the party opposite.

While welcoming the maximum information that can be given to the public, may I ask why these facilities were granted immediately after the Air Estimates debate when the Secretary of State had declined to give the House information about scrambling and so on which subsequently appeared in Mr. Chapman Pincher's articles? Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether he approved the articles as well as providing the facilities, and will he give like facilities to any accredited defence correspondent who wishes to avail himself of the opportunity?

As I have already said, I thought Mr. Pincher's articles were very well informed and well written, but I do not accept responsibility for everything that he wrote. As I have already said, I have previously provided facilities for other journalists, including hon. Members opposite, to make visits of a similar kind.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will give the types and numbers of aircraft on order for Transport Command and the dates on which he expects to have them available for service.

I would refer the hon. Member to the information in the Air Estimates Memorandum and to the speech of my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State in the debate on 12th March.

With respect, that information is not nearly as full as the information about V-Bomber Command which Mr. Pincher had made available to him. Cannot we have the dates when the Air Force expects to get into service some of these transport aircraft which are on order? Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us something about the Belfasts and when they will be in service—all ten of them—because there is great concern about this lack of a strategic air freighter and we want to know what the right hon. Gentleman is doing about it.

I understand, appreciate and share the hon. Gentleman's concern about the heavy freighters and the need to have them in service as soon as possible, but I think it would be unwise to go beyond what I have said previously; that we expect to have ten Belfasts in the mid-1960s.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what allowances and arrangements are available for Royal Air Force officers and other ranks to assist them to educate their children in this country whilst on overseas tours, and to avoid the problems arising from frequent changes of school.

Allowances are paid for children at boarding or at day schools, at the rates set out on page 17 of the Air Estimates. In addition, children are given one free passage every year to visit parents serving abroad.

I am sure that the Secretary of State realises that the education of children is a very important welfare and recruiting factor. Can he say how the Service allowances compare with similar allowances for personnel in the Foreign and Colonial Services? Are any steps taken not only to advise Service men about public and private school possibilities but also to bring to their attention the possibility of local education authority schools, some of which are boarding schools? My impression is that an airman is left very much to his own devices and that if he is in Singapore or Hong Kong and has no relatives in this country he finds the placing of his children in school a difficult matter. What help is the Air Ministry giving?

The Royal Air Force education branch can and does help, but we have found that, on the whole, parents have strong and decided views of their own about the education of their children. With regard to comparable rates paid by the Foreign Office, our rates are at present lower than theirs but I am, with my right hon. Friends the First Lord of the Admiralty and the Secretary of State for War, discussing with the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether there should be any change.

I understood the Minister to indicate that children who are attending school will be given the fare to visit their parents abroad once a year. Does that concession include children who are not attending school? If so, does it include the children of officers under 25?

That is a different question, and I will write to the hon. Gentleman about it.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are hon. Members on both sides of the House who are very anxious about the limited educational standards reached by some of these children? Will he undertake to consult the Minister of Education with a view to improving the facilities which are available when the children do not come back to this country for schooling?

I will gladly consult my right hon. Friend who will, naturally, be glad to receive any representations from my hon. Friend.

We wish the right hon. Gentleman well in his discussions with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on this matter. Will he make a statement to the House as soon as he is in a position to do so?

I have no doubt that a statement will be made, although it may be made by the Minister of Defence rather than by myself.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps have been taken in the past six months to encourage local education authorities to combine in school building consortia; and with what results.

Arrangements are in hand for meetings in Edinburgh and Inverness, with the Minister of State in the chair, to which representatives of all education authorities will be invited and in which the advantages of consortium methods will be explained and discussed.

Does that Answer mean that nothing has been done in the last six or twelve months to explain in greater detail to the local education authorities the quite considerable economies that can arise from the establishment of such consortia? Is not Lanarkshire, as a member of the English consortium, the only authority in Scotland at the moment which is in a consortium? Since many of the steel components are made in Scotland, may we not call on the Secretary of State to make tremendous efforts to bring more education authorities in Scotland into this kind of arrangement?

I agree that these consortia are of great importance. We are moving as fast as we can to get more authorities involved and interested.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to receive the draft schedule of toll charges from the Forth Road Bridge Joint Board; and when he proposes to invite objections to the suggested charges.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave on 14th March to the right hon. Member for East Stirlingshire (Mr. Woodburn).

I recall the reply the Secretary of State gave to my right hon. Friend, but is the right hon. Gentleman aware that since the Forth Road Bridge Joint Board accepted the principle of toll charges considerable economic changes have been taking place in Fife resulting from pit closures? Does the right hon. Gentleman expect that Fife will be able to attract the necessary industry if toll charges unduly increase the freight charges of those industries? Will he, therefore, assure the House that if toll charges must be imposed they will be of a nominal character?

I am awaiting the schedule that is to be submitted to me. There will be opportunity for a public inquiry if there are objections to the proposed toll charges.

Why is a toll imposed on this particular part of a trunk road while the M.1, which is also a trunk road, has no toll charges?

The hon. Gentleman will be aware, from previous answers that have been given, of the Government's policy in relation to toll charges. This policy has been set out by myself and by the Minister of Transport.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that 10,800 Commonwealth immigrants arrived in January, 1962, against 2,940 in 1961 and only 120 in 1960, which, on the 1961 total figure of 136,000, indicates a total of over 400,000 for 1962; and if he will take the necessary steps to see that Scotland's proportion of 400,000 are property housed and found jobs.

I have nothing to add to the answer which I gave to my hon. Friend on 7th March.

Why does my right hon. Friend mot want Scotland to have its fair share of the immigrants who are coming to this country? Will he direct 20,000 of them to Dundee, the Socialist hon. Member for which is so keen on unlimited numbers coming here?

My hon. Friend must be aware from previous answers that we do not consider that any special Scottish measures as regards jobs or houses are necessary.

In view of the enormous difficulties in Scotland in regard to jobs and houses, does my right hon. Friend think that Scotland could take a fair share of the numbers who are coming in?

We have never been restrictive in our view in Scotland about people coming from any part of the world.

Is the Secretary of State aware that jobs and houses are essential in Scotland and that when we have them we would certainly resent any measures being taken to prevent people coming in merely because of the colour of their skin?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will introduce an examination in spoken English in the leaving certificate in Scotland.

I am certainly anxious to secure a high standard of spoken English in the schools, but I do not think it would be practicable to try to test this in the examination for the Scottish Certificate of Education.

Will the right hon. Gentleman pay due respect to what are sometimes contemptuously called dialects, Whether they be spoken in Scotland, Ireland, the West Country or elsewhere, and ensure that they are properly dealt with?

Speaking personally, I should greatly regret the disappearance of dialects such as those to which the hon. and learned Gentleman has referred.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has completed his discussion with Scottish farmers about the continuation of financial assistance for marginal land; and whether he will make a statement about the future of marginal agricultural production.

As stated in the recent White Paper on the Annual Review, 1962, there will be further discussions with the farmers' unions on the proposals for the winter keep scheme. The marginal agricultural production scheme, as already announced, will terminate with the 1962 cropping season.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the importance of bringing these discussions to a conclusion before the marginal agricultural production scheme ends so that the new schemes can follow on in the immediate cropping season? Will he also bear in mind that it is very important that these schemes should replace completely and adequately the good work done under the marginal agricultural production scheme in the Highlands over the last ten or more years?

I am well aware of both points which my hon. Friend has raised. I think that these new proposals, together with the existing production grants, will provide a system of grants very well suited to our marginal areas.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is very strong criticism of the mean and niggardly action of the Government concerning aid in respect of marginal land? Does he realise that most farming people in Scotland believe that this was a very good way to develop the land of Scotland? He has done a gross disservice to Scotland by the attitude which he has adopted.

The hon. Gentleman seems to be about three years out of date.

Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that the proposed legislation will be introduced in the present Session so that there will be no gap between the ending of the marginal agricultural production scheme and the introduction of the new schemes?

I am afraid that I cannot give any positive assurances about the dates of legislation, but I am well aware of the need to ensure that there is no gap.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many unfit houses he expects to be closed or demolished in 1962.

Not all local authorities have yet sent me their slum clearance programmes for the three years 1962 to 1964, but it is already clear that they are planning to deal with more than 12,000 unfit houses a year during that period.

Is the Secretary of State satisfied that that is a serious estimate? Is it not a fact that between 1956 and 1961 there was no improvement in the number of houses dealt with in Scotland? Since the Government have said that the emphasis in their housing policy is on slum clearance and redevelopment, when may we expect an improvement in these figures? What are the Government doing about them? This is a very serious matter.

I should not like to accept everything that the hon. Gentleman has said without checking the figures, which I do not have in my head. However, I believe that the figures which I have given are a fair estimate of what we are hoping to achieve. It is difficult to be absolutely precise as to what will be achieved at this stage.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what are his latest proposals for the dispersal of the civil population in the event of nuclear war.

I am about to write to local authorities giving outline arrangements for a dispersal scheme and I will send the hon. Member a copy of the letter.

Will the Secretary of State take care to ensure that in future he does not make arrangements for the population of Glasgow to be sent to the neighbourhood of Holy Loch? Can he give us any idea as to where nearly three million of the industrial population can be dispersed in Scotland when there are no houses for them?

I said that I am sending the hon. Gentleman a copy of the letter. I hope that this time I will get the information right up to date.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received respecting the repairs necessary to Scottish Special Housing Association houses in Faifley, Clydebank; and what measures he is taking to inquire into the cause of defects occurring soon after the houses were built.

The Town Council of Clydebank wrote to me on 15th March expressing its concern and the following day senior officers of my Department and of the Scottish special Housing Association discussed the matter with representatives of the Council.

As I explained to the hon. Member when I wrote to him last week, I expect to receive from the Association soon a full technical report on the causes of the defects in these houses.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is grave concern not only in Clydebank but in other areas about the serious defects in these houses? Thousands of pounds have to be spent on houses which have been ill designed and badly constructed. Notwithstanding some assertions made by the right hon. Gentleman and his Department, will he ensure that in future public money is used to build houses with some "guts" in them?

The hon. Gentleman must let me await the Report before expecting me to agree with the criticisms which he has expressed. However, I very much regret that these difficulties have arisen.

These defects have been known for months. Thousands of pounds are having to be spent, the houses are in ruins—

That may be true, but this is not the time to make speeches.

This is a bad case. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I propose to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what reply he has made to the memorandum he received from the editor of the Glasgow Herald on the need for a fifth university for Scotland.

This memorandum was addressed to the Committee on Higher Education, of which Lord Robbins is Chairman, and I cannot make any comment upon it.

Is the Secretary of State aware that the memorandum rejected the idea of a satellite university, doubted the practicality of the expansion of Glasgow and Edinburgh Universities and, therefore, claimed that Scotland needed a fifth university so that it might have its fair share of the increasing financial and human resources which will be devoted to higher education in the years ahead? Will the right hon. Gentleman give us his views on those three points as Secretary of State for Scotland?

Certain of the matters are outwith my direct responsibility, but I have a general interest in the matter as a whole. For a general answer to the points which the hon. Gentleman has raised, I would refer him to the Answer given by my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary to the Treasury to the hon. Member for Glasgow, Maryhill (Mr. Hannan) on 8th March.

That Answer was most unsatisfactory. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he is responsible for educational facilities in Scotland? Is he also aware that there is a grave shortage of university places in Scotland and that this shortage will become much graver in the years ahead? Surely the time is ripe for an announcement on a fifth university for Scotland.

The hon. Lady knows that I am well aware of the feelings on this matter in Scotland and that I am following very closely what is going on. However, she will realise that it is not competent for me to make any statement about the future of another university in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many young persons were committed to prison before trial during 1961 because of the lack of remand home or remand centre accommodation.

Figures are not available for the whole of 1961, but for the six months from 1st September last 1,042 persons between 17 and 21 years were committed to prison before trial who could have been committed to remand centres had they been available.

That is a most serious statement. Can the Secretary of State indicate by what right and under what Statute these young people are detained in Barlinnie Prison and other prisons on remand before trial? Will he take action to ensure that this practice stops and that the stigma attaching to these young people, who may be declared innocent when they come to trial, is completely removed?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that it is very desirable that proper accommodation should be available. A remand centre at Polmont, en- tirely separate from the borstal institution, will be opened probably at the beginning of August. We are proposing to erect a fully equipped remand centre at Larbert, but it will be a little time before it is built.

This is a very serious matter, as my hon. Friend has said. Cannot the Secretary of State speed up work on these remand centres, because it is intolerable that young people should be sent to prison even before their trial?

I am very anxious that this work should go forward as quickly as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many applications he has received from local authorities for approval of flood prevention schemes under the Flood Prevention (Scotland) Act, 1961.

One authority has formally submitted a scheme for approval and six others are known to be actively considering schemes.

May I take it from what the Secretary of State has said that one scheme has been approved, or has one been submitted to him for approval? Does the fact that assistance to the value of, I think, only £20,000 is available under the Act have anything to do with the schemes not coming forward?

No, I do not think so. My Answer was that one authority has formally submitted a scheme for approval. I cannot add to that at the moment.

In view of the problems concerning water supply, flooding and drainage, would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the time has long since passed for a complete survey and control of the Whole watershed in Scotland?

I appreciate the gravity of these matters, but we have debated them very often in relation to Bills on drainage and flooding which have become Acts of Parliament. However, I will have regard to what the right hon. Gentleman has said.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland which parts of Scotland will be in a position to receive grants for the production of winter keep in connection with the scheduled scheme under the recent Agricultural Price Review.

It is proposed that the winter keep scheme will apply to livestock rearing land in all parts of Scotland.

Will all farms, whether at present they benefit from M.A.P. grants or not, be in a position to submit requests for grant under this scheme when it comes into operation?

I should not like to go into details of that kind in answer to a supplementary question. I should, however, make clear that details of the scheme have still to be worked out and the National Farmers' Unions consulted.

Does my right hon. Friend realise the importance of the scheme to these areas and that it as essential that people should know exactly what will happen before the M.A.P. scheme ends?

I am well aware of the importance of these schemes to these areas.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now make a statement regarding his discussions with the electricity boards in Scotland on the implementation of the policies set out in Command Paper 1337, The Financial and Economic Obligations of the Nationalised Industries.

The South of Scotland Electricity Board has agreed that it should be its financial objective over the five years 1962–66 to secure an average gross return before deducting interest or making provision for depreciation of about 12½ per cent. on its net assets. This will enable the Board to finance from revenue more than 50 par cent, of its capital development.

Discussions with the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board are still in progress.

While one cannot fully appreciate these figures without looking into them, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is a fact that this additional raising of capital means, in effect, price increases? Will the Secretary of State answer the simple question: how much will this cost electricity consumers in Scotland? They are already worried and annoyed about the South of Scotland increased electricity charges.

I understand that the South of Scotland Board, which recently announced its new tariffs to produce an additional 11 per cent. of revenue, had all these matters in mind when making these increases.

Does any consultation take place with the Secretary of State regarding these new tariffs? Is it true that the weight is being put upon the domestic tariff as against the industrial tariff?

The fixing of tariffs is a matter for the Board, but details of discussions which were held were set out in the White Paper dealing with the nationalised industries.

How can the right hon. Gentleman say that these increases are a matter for the Board? Can he answer the simple question: how much is this costing electricity consumers? It must be costing them something. Are we not entitled to know how much?

I cannot answer that in reply to a supplementary question. If, however, the hon. Member would put a Question down, I would try to give him the answer. It would be a fairly complicated matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, in view of the forthcoming municipal elections, he will circularise returning officers drawing their attention to the regulations made under the Representation of the People Act; and if he will stress the impropriety of unauthorised persons being present in premises where polling or counting of votes is proceeding.

No, Sir. Returning officers are well aware of the local elections rules scheduled to the 1949 Act under which unauthorised persons must be excluded from the polling station and from the counting of votes.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that in view of the recent local election in which abuses certainly took place, it would be very desirable to issue a circular reminding returning officers of such abuses as, for example, the local provost standing in the hall although not himself a candidate and welcoming the electors, with a count taking place under the same roof as the committee rooms of one of the political parties? Surely, something should be done to remind returning officers of the proper practice.

There is a technical point which I should explain. The conduct of elections is entirely in the hands of the returning officers, as provided by the terms of the Representation of the People Act, 1949. It would be both unnecessary and improper for me to issue reminders to them about certain aspects of their duty, but doubtless the hon. Member's Question will come to their attention.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to receive the Report on student grants from the Standing Advisory Committee; and if he will publish this Report.

The Report has recently been received by my right hon. Friends the Minister of Education and the Minister for Science and myself. We are considering the Report but no decision has yet been made about publication.

With the new dispensation in student grants, does not the Secretary of State consider it important to engender as much confidence in these committees as possible and that publication of the Report would help considerably, irrespective of what the Government's final decision might be?

I appreciate the point that the hon. Member is making, but the Advisory Committee is a new body and it has not yet been worked out how its advice can best be handled. It might well be contrary to the most useful working of the Committee to make a general rule at the beginning either that all its reports should be published or that none should.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether the completion dates of the present technical colleges building programme will be realised; and if he will provide a table in the OFFICIAL REPORT showing the progress of each project.

Of the Government's programme of technical college building to the value of £18 million to be started by the end of March 1964, project have beeb strated to date to the value of £13½ million. This includes projects to the value of £1 million already completed and others to the value of approximately £1½ million are expected to be completed by the end of the present year. I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT tables showing estimated dates for the start and the completion of further projects which are at earlier stages.

While it is difficult to accept all the implications of that Answer without seeing the full statement, may I ask whether the Secretary of State is, like the rest of us, rather disappointed at the progress which has been achieved under the earlier programme announced in 1956? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many communities, such as my own, have an interest in the present programmes and wish that they could be carried out with dispatch?

I have been disappointed with the delays encountered concerning certain colleges, but the hon. Member will appreciate that the figure I have given for starts is not too bad. One of the major difficulties, which has arisen in the hon. Member's constituency among others, is the problem of sites.

Is the Secretary of State aware that a firm in my constituency which has a good apprenticeship record has been directed by the President of the Board of Trade to conduct its expansion in a development district and that it wishes to choose Dunbarton but finds that no facilities are available for technical education?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what communication he has received from the National Farmers' Union of Scotland

I should be grateful if the hon. Member would either write to me about this or let me have time to examine what he has said.

I have not received any communication from the Scottish National Farmers' Union on this subject.

Is the Minister aware of the deep resentment in Scotland about agricultural subsidies? Is he aware that the dairy farmers in Ayrshire especially regard this as a severe blow to the dairying industry, because it will increase the price to the consumer without helping the farmer? Is he also aware that it is a heavy blow against the small egg producers and that the farmers of Scotland unanimously wish to see him in another place?

The hon. Member has gone wide of his original Question. As he knows, I had a meeting last week with the Scottish N.F.U. The Union made it clear that it was unable to accept the Government's conclusions, but I gained the impression that it was well aware of the reasons for the result of the Review.

Was my right hon. Friend satisfied with the reception he got last week at the dinner of the Scottish N.F.U. and particularly with that part of the discussion which related to winter keep, to which the Scottish farmers are looking forward with keen interest?

Even though the representatives of the Scottish N.F.U. did not like the Review, they were extremely kind to me when I met them on that occasion.

In view of the totally unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what arrangements are made by regional hospital boards to ensure that no maternity patient is taken to hospital by an unaccompanied ambulance driver.

The normal practice is that, where a patient has to travel to a hospital by ambulance and the doctor thinks it necessary for her to be accompanied by a midwife, he arranges for either the district midwife or a midwife from the hospital to go with her.

Is it not the case that all maternity patients going to hospital should be accompanied? Have there not been examples of patients with a fair degree of urgency being unaccompanied? Will the Secretary of State make full inquiries and press upon the regional board the need for a midwife to accompany the driver?

This is a matter which is best left to the discretion of the people immediately concerned. It would be wasteful of badly needed skilled staff to send somebody on every occasion if it was quite unnecessary to do so.

Is the Secretary of State aware that, time after time, regional hospital boards apparently do not take the proper precautions to ensure that ambulance drivers are accompanied? In these circumstances, is it not his duty to intervene?

If I were persuaded that some authorities were not fulfilling their duty properly, certainly I would take steps to bring the matter to their attention. Perhaps the hon. Lady will send me details if she has any cases in mind.

In view of the number of complaints made recently about the service, will the Secretary of State look at the whole matter once again to make sure that at least certain boards are not slipping up with regard to the ambulance service?

I will certainly look at the matter. It would be helpful if any further cases which need examination were brought to my attention.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will publish in the Official Report the names of those local authorities which have applied for and have been granted financial assistance for the clearance of derelict sites under the terms of the Local Employment Act; and whether he will indicate the purposes for which the grants have been made in each case.

I am circulating the information for which the hon. Member asks.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he is satisfied with the rate at which applications are coming forward? If he is not, can he tell us what is his opinion as to the reasons for this tardiness in the applications? Is it not the case that the Toot-hill Committee recommended that the grants be increased in order to get the local authorities to be more forthcoming in their applications? Can the right hon. Gentleman say, further, what stage has been reached in the consultations between himself and Fife local authorities about the clearance of sites?

That is really rather a handful for one supplementary question. The initiative does lie with the local authorities, who are fully informed of grant facilities. I should be glad to consider more applications. As to the question whether the level of grant is right, the standard rate of grant is 50 per cent., which we feel is a fair division between the Exchequer and the local authorities, bearing in mind that a cleared site is a permanent asset to the local community.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when work started on the Glasgow-Kilmarnock road; and when it will be completed.

Work on improvement of this road from Eastwood Toll to Malletsheugh, including the reconstruction of Whitecraigs railway bridge, started in November, 1959, and is expected to be completed in September, 1962.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much he has allocated to the authorities in Ayrshire in respect of maintenance and repair of classified roads in 1962–63; and how this compares with 1961–62.

The initial allocation of grant made to Ayr County Council earlier this month towards the cost of works of maintenance and minor improvement on classified roads in the county during 1962–63 was £192,000. The equivalent figure for 1961–62 was £200,050.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that the inadequacy of the provision in respect of classified roads is equalled only by the slowness in respect of the trunk road from Kilmarnock to Glasgow?

I agree that all of us would like to have more money available for that road, but we really cannot do everything simultaneously.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in view of the many serious incidents of violence in the past few months amongst prisoners in Barlinnie Prison, he will institute an independent inquiry.

The circumstances of each incident of this kind are fully investigated as it occurs and I do not consider that an independent inquiry into recent incidents at Barlinnie would help.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the number of stabbings has gone up to ten this year; and that the chaplain, who has been there twenty-four years, says these are the worst cases of violence he has seen during that time? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the general public want to know where the people in the stabbing cases get the implements they use for stabbing, and that the general public want to know more about it? I do not see that anything but an independent inquiry would be of any use to satisfy the general public.

I am quite sure the hon. Lady will agree that what matters above all is to get this kind of thing stopped, and that is what our objective must be. As to the wisest and best way to achieve that, I should inform the hon. Lady that the police are informed immediately of every serious assault and are given facilities for questioning the prisoners and members of the prison staff. At the same time the governor carries out his own inquiries into the circumstances as affecting the discipline of the prison and the supervision arrangements. Each incident is inquired into very fully indeed.

All of us agree that the important thing is to get this stopped. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in these last few months there has been one stabbing incident after another? Is he also aware that, according to his own information, a local inquiry has been held in each case and that it has not prevented further instances of stabbing? Surely he must come to the conclusion that we need an independent inquiry into this matter, since those who have sons in the prison, and the people around the prison, are very concerned indeed about the continuing disturbances there? It would hearten them if the right hon. Gentleman were to accept what my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Gorbals (Mrs. Cullen) is asking for—an independent inquiry.

I think I should inform the hon. Lady of some of the things done in reviewing the internal security arrangements. A number of measures designed to ensure the closer supervision of prisoners have been brought into operation. The exercise time of the prisoners has been changed to allow more effective supervision. Additional supervising officers are on duty at certain times. Special measures have been taken to open passageways to shorten the routes taken by bodies of prisoners. I shall continue to watch carefully to see how far these measures are successful.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he intends to remove the surface air-raid shelters in the City of Glasgow.

It remains the policy of the Government to preserve sound airraid shelters so far as possible. I am, however, always prepared to consider whether in individual cases there are compelling grounds for removal.

Does the Secretary of State really believe that these shelters are of any use at all or ever were of any use? Back courts are cluttered up with them, people cannot get their washing out, and the shelters are used for all sorts of purposes. I am sure that if we had another war they would be of no earthly use at all.

I do not think it would be sensible to get rid of something that would give a degree of protection in the event of another war.

Oh.

Will the right hon. Gentleman stop pretending to the House, an assembly of sensible men and women? Is he not aware that his predecessor indicated some years ago that he would consider these things? If these are just obsolete anachronisms in the nuclear age, will he not take a decision to dispense with them at the earliest possible moment?

I really do not think that it would be sensible to dispense with them all at once, but I always have said that I will consider in any individual case whether there are grounds for removal.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will make a statement on the effect of the compulsory testing of cars more than seven years old in removing faulty cars from the roads.

Up to the end of January, 1962, over 935,000 vehicles submitted for test were refused a certificate on initial inspection. This represents 35 per cent. of all vehicles tested under the scheme. Precise figures are not available of the number of vehicles subsequently brought up to standard and passed, but a detailed analysis of a sample of the returns from testing stations indicates that about 5 per cent. of the total number of vehicles tested failed to qualify for a certificate. There are no means of telling how many vehicles were scrapped without submission to test because they were known to be faulty. The licensing records indicate, however, that the vehicles in the testable classes which were scrapped during 1961 appeared to show a sharp increase over previous years.

Is the Minister aware that a very dangerous racket is still carried on by unscrupulous dealers in old cars? When certificates have been granted, a day or two later experts have said the cars are of no use, and cars in the meanwhile have been sold. Will the right hon. Gentleman see to it that some further protective measure is taken because certificates at present deal only with questions of lighting, steering and braking, whereas there are many other defects which ought to be considered before a certificate is granted. There are many other matters to be dealt with. Will the right hon. Gentleman see whether anything can be done in that regard, because this is becoming a public scandal?

If the hon. Member will give me details of what is becoming a public scandal and will be kind enough to send me the details of any particular cases, I will certainly look into them, but a general statement such as he has made is not really very satisfactory.

In view of the great value of the testing of these cars in getting unfit cars off the roads, as shown by the Minister's Answer, can the right hon. Gentleman give any indication at the moment when he expects to be able to reduce the seven years to six years?

I cannot at the moment, but I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that it will be done as quickly as possible.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether he has yet found a means of bringing within the scope of the tests cars manufactured abroad more than seven years ago but not registered in this country until less than seven years ago?

No. We have not found an answer to that yet, but are looking into it.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he has completed his inquiry into the fraudulent disposal of motor vehicles when subject to hire-purchase agreements; and what is the outcome of the inquiry.

This inquiry was put in hand in January of this year. As a first step the interests most closely affected were asked to submit their views and recommendations; these have been received and are now being studied.

I cannot say when the inquiry will be completed, or what its outcome is likely to be.

As to the outcome of this inquiry, is the Minister aware that there are still many cases of fraudulent sales which cause very real hardship for the unfortunate people who have been taken in, and in considering any remedy will he keep in mind the fact that a purchaser who pays cash is not protected by any voluntary arrangement between the hire-purchase companies designed to protect purchasers from this kind of deal?

I will consider the point which the hon. Member has made.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will initiate an inter-departmental inquiry to consider the long-term advantages and the short-term costs of changing the rule of the road in Britain to driving on the right hand side.

I have already started such a study.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when we may expect some form of report to the House on it?

No. I cannot say at the moment, but it was started some considerable time ago.

asked the Minister of Transport when the public inquiry was held Co consider the proposal to develop a road along the southern boundary of Chalgrove Airfield as an alternative to that section of the Oxford-Watlington road now diverted through Chalgrove village; and if any buildings or fencing had been erected on the airfield in advance of the inquiry, which would have been affected by the proposed line of the new road.

The public inquiry into road closures at Chalgrove Airfield was held by the War Works Commission on 7th February, 1962. Re-fencing of the airfield boundary for safety reasons was begun in June, 1961, and part of this will be affected by the line of the proposed new road. No buildings have been erected on this line.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the erection of this fence, which I understand runs for about 1¼ to 1½ miles and has cost about £3,000 to £3,500, before the inquiry was held has given the impression that the company concerned thought the inquiry was merely a formality and that the necessary permission to close the road would be granted whatever objections were raised? Would my right hon. Friend like to comment on that?

It is not a formality. The fence can be realigned if it is decided to provide a new road inside the existing airfield boundary. There have been instances of dangerous trespassing on to the runways of the airfield and it was for that reason that fencing was necessary.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a great part of the airfield is still open to trespassers?

Yes, but not as much as it was before the fence was erected.

asked the Minister of Transport what plans he has for redeveloping the Rochester Way in the Borough of Woolwich as dual carriageways; and when he hopes to authorise the commencement of this work.

The London County Council as improvement authority is investigating various ways of improving A.2 between Bexley and Greenwich. Until it has decided what scheme to adopt I cannot say when I am likely to be able to consider it for grant.

Will my right hon. Friend have another look at this matter with the London County Council and see whether he cannot expedite at least the section immediately on either side of the junction of West Mount Road where the trunk road develops into one-way traffic in either direction?

I think that my hon. Friend refers to Woolwich where the A.2 ceases to be a trunk road, and here the L.C.C. is now investigating three possibilities, as I confirmed this morning. First, there is the improvement of the A.2 on its existing alignment which involves the demolition of a large amount of residential property. Secondly, there is the linking of A.2 to Shooter's Hill over open space and the improvement of Shooter's Hill. Thirdly, the L.C.C. is considering the construction of a new road alongside or above the Bexley railway line to the L.C.C. boundary. This is being actively considered at the moment.

Is there any point in continuing to develop the A.2 into a six-line carriageway until someone has made up his mind whether there really is any point in increasing the volume and speed of traffic when the road which joins it is already too narrow? The Minister is developing a six-line carriageway which will run into a bottleneck.

I do not think that is so. There is always the question when a new road is built that it takes traffic quicker and gets somewhere else where traffic conditions are more difficult, but one cannot build roads simultaneously all over the country.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will erect signs at the junction of Sackville Road and Addycombe Terrace, Newcastle, to show clearly which of these roads is regarded as the major road.

This is primarily a matter for the local authority but I am consulting it and will write to my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware that the proposed Horsham by-pass road provides for a roundabout at the A.281 crossing of approximately 620 feet in length and 435 feet in breadth; and how many other roundabouts of this size or larger are at present in use in the United Kingdom.

The plans for the bypass submitted to me by the West Sussex County Council, which is the highway authority, provide for such a roundabout.

The line of the by-pass and the land required for its construction were the subject of a public inquiry on 21st March. I cannot yet say whether the county council's plans will be approved.

There is one other roundabout of comparable size already in use; several are projected.

Whilst appreciating that a public inquiry has taken place, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he thinks that the fifteen acres which will be taken up will provide a really modern solution? Will he please press for consideration of a road that will stall be up-to-date in about ten years' time?