asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations (1) whether he will introduce amending legislation to enable the Colonial Development Corporation to initiate schemes in newly independent Commonwealth countries;

(2) whether he will change the title of the Colonial Development Corporation to the Overseas Development Corporation.

The present limitations upon the scope of the Colonial Development Corporation are now under review and the desirability of extending its operations in independent Commonwealth countries is being examined.

I am sure the whole House will be very glad to hear that Answer, because does the Commonwealth Secretary not realise it is just after independence that the support of schemes initiated with the economic and technical knowledge of the Corporation can be of such great value to the new countries? In those circumstances, where they are willing to have such support given to them, does he not agree that this is the most efficient and economical way in which we can help them?

Those are some of the thoughts we have in mind.

While adding to the pleasure that this is under reconsideration, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he will consider whether other Commonwealth Governments might be persuaded to take part in this scheme as well, for example, Australia or Canada?

That is a wider question.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what representations have been received by Her Majesty's Government from other Commonwealth Governments concerning British membership of the European Economic Community since the Commonwealth Financial Ministers' Conference at Accra; and to what extent these disclose a change of policy on their part.

We have been in continuous consultation with other Commonwealth Governments about the negotiations in Brussels. Such communications are naturally confidential.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of frequent reports that the terms under which the United Kingdom may join the Common Market include the ending, or tapering off, of Commonwealth preference and even anti-Commonwealth preference in the case of manufactures? Can he give some assurance that our arrangements in Europe will strengthen rather than destroy the economic unity of the Commonwealth?

That, of course, is what we axe negotiating about.

Can the right hon. Gentleman at least tell the House that he disagrees with the views expressed yesterday in Washington by Mr. Hall-stein, Chairman of the Common Market Commission, that it is possible for the Commonwealth's political and cultural links to survive unimpaired if its present economic relations with this country are ruptured?

I have my work cut out commenting on what is said in this country without commenting on what is said all round the world.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a further statement about the position of members of the Colonial and Overseas Services, formerly employed in certain Commonwealth countries, who have not been granted pension increases commensurate with those of the United Kingdom Pensions (Increase) Act, 1959.

There is nothing I can add at present to the general statement of Government policy made by my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury on 21st December last.

Is it not a fact that only some Commonwealth Governments are not facing up to their requirements on this matter of pensions increases? Can my hon. Friend say what representations are being made by Her Majesty's Government to those countries which are defaulting in this respect?

The answer to the first part of the supplementary question is, yes, it is only some Governments. The answer to the second part is that while it is not open to my right hon. Friend to make formal representations to Governments about how they deal with their own employees, nevertheless we bring to their attention increases in our own pensions. My right hon. Friend would be willing to forward to those Governments any representations which the pensioners themselves wish to make.

Would not the Joint Under-Secretary agree that it would pay us to have a rather more generous attitude in this matter? After all, this is a form of assistance which we can give to under-developed countries, as well as to the individuals concerned by giving them security of tenure. Would this not be a very economical way of giving assistance, even if it meant a larger share of the burden falling on the British Treasury?

That sounds all very well, but on the whole Commonwealth Governments are treating their pensioners very well indeed. As the Financial Secretary told the House—this is why I quoted his speech—for us to interfere in their payments to their former employees might gratuitously call into question the security of the basic pensions themselves, which would help no one.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Central African Office) what proposals he now has for continuing the Central African Federation Review Conference.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Central African Office) if he will now state when the review of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland will take place.

I have nothing to add to the reply which I gave the hon. Member for Eton and Slough (Mr. Brockway) and my hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland, South (Mr. P. Williams) on 29th March.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that it is very important to settle the future of Central Africa as quickly as possible, as the prevailing uncertainty is gravely damaging the economy of that part of the world?

Yes, I entirely agree. I realise the importance o£ making progress in this field, and I will keep the House informed of any developments, which I hope may be sooner rather than later.

In view of the statement by the Monckton Commission that the African populations in these territories were strongly opposed to the maintenance of the present Federation, will the right hon. Gentleman guarantee that those African populations will be allowed a majority in their Legislature before any conference is held determining the future of the Federation?

I do not think I can give any general assurances at this stage. My whole actions are governed by the Preamble to the 1953 Act. Apart from that, it is important at least to make some progress in the near future towards a possible solution.

Can the Home Secretary assure the House that he will not call a review conference until the Northern Rhodesian elections have been held and have produced a Government which is more representative in that territory of the majority of the population there?

I have not at present in mind the calling of a review conference. What I have in mind is preparatory work for the future.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Central African Office) why the provincial headquarters of the United National Independence Party of Northern Rhodesia has been refused registration for the second time.

The Registrar of Societies refused the second application on the same grounds as the first, namely that it was likely to be prejudicial to peace and good order. I am informed that the Northern Division of the United National Independence Party has exercised a right of appeal to the Governor in Council and that appeal awaits a hearing.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Colonial Secretary removed the ban on this party some months ago on the ground that violence had abated and that this was the basis on which the constitutional talks were reopened? Is it not, therefore, intolerable that an important section of this party should be refused the right of registration and thus be prevented from organising the African vote in accordance with the normal democratic procedure?

As an appeal is pending, I would rather not make any further observations on this matter.

As the hon. Lady referred to the normal democratic procedure, may I ask my right hon. Friend if he is aware that the publicity secretary of U.N.I.P. has threatened with violence Africans who may stand as independents in the Northern Rhodesian election and has also threatened Europeans with an "orgy of blood"?

That is a matter which I have noticed and which I regret, but it is wider than this question.

Has the Home Secretary also noticed the disclaimer of that speech made by Mr. Kenneth Kaunda, the leader of U.N.I.P.?

Yes, I have also noticed that.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Central African Office) what reply he has given to Sir John Moffat's request for assurances that Her Majesty's Government will oppose any proposal to partition Northern Rhodesia.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Dundee, East (Mr. G. M. Thomson) on 29th March.

Could not the Home Secretary find it in him to make a rather more absolute reply to this suggestion? Does he not agree that the Monckton Commission was absolutely right in saying that any such proposal to separate from Northern Rhodesia those areas on which its economic prosperity would depend would be unjust and would certainly encounter the sort of opposition from the African population which would make organised Government in that territory impossible?

The Governor of Northern Rhodesia on returning home indicated the difficulties he saw in this solution from the point of view of Northern Rhodesia. He also quoted my words—

"The solution to be sought should be one that" can obtain general acceptance."

I stand by that in all the decisions I make.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Central African Office) if he will take steps to ensure that in future the rights of free speech and of political association and meeting are not denied to the inhabitants of the mining townships of Northern Rhodesia.

There is no restriction under the law of the rights of the inhabitants of mining townships to free speech or of political association and meetings. Certain companies, in their capacity as property owners, do regulate political activities on their own property, but generally the residents enjoy the same rights as any other persons subject only to compliance with statutory laws which do not discriminate.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have here copies of correspondence which has passed between the national secretary of the United National Independence Party of Northern Rhodesia and the general manager of the Northern Rhodesian Broken Hill Development Company, showing that the latter prohibits the holding of political meetings in the African mining townsihip of Kaswe and also the sale of political party membership cards? Is not this a gross interference with personal liberties? Do these companies think that they have bought the freedom of Africans just because they have provided them with tied houses?

I, too, have a copy of this correspondence. The company's reply was that it was not responsible for police action against certain party officials. The company said that it did not interfere with its employees' private activities and that there was no discrimination against the union. I believe that to be true, but it is quite true that the company discountenanced political activities within this particular township. That means, if the hon. Lady reads my original Answer, that political meetings must be held outside the particular township or outside townships owned by these companies. In that I am not able to interfere.

Would we not consider it quite intolerable in this country if a farmer, for instance, were able to say that one of his tenants in a tied cottage could not have a politcial meeting in that tied cottage? Would we not take steps to deal with this as a gross violation of civil liberties? Is it not within the power of the Northern Rhodesian Government to take action to prevent the abuse of the private rights of individuals?

The hon. Lady must not under-estimate the importance of the early part of my Answer, that there is no restriction under the Jaw of the rights of the inhabitants of these townships in their political life, and nobody intends that there should be. The only thing that I am not able to control is the actual behaviour inside the property of these companies.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman reconsider this matter? Does he remember that fifty years ago this issue was fought out in the United States of America, where mining companies in a smiliar way prohibited political activities in their towns? America has remedied this. Is it not time that our Government did so in a Colonial Territory?

I am perfectly ready to receive from the hon. Member or any Member of the House information which I can pass on to the administration locally, and I will certainly do so; but I do not wish to give any undertaking today which I cannot carry out.

Will the Home Secretary at least assure the House that he will bring his influence, which is not inconsiderable, to bear on the mining companies to implement the views he expressed in the first part of his reply?

I will certainly communicate with the mining companies; but in this case, as I have said, the company said that it was not responsible for police action against certain party officials. That I cannot interfere with. However, I will certainly have a general discussion with them on the points raised today.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Central African Office) what are now the admission requirements for Africans at the colleges of further education and technical institutes in Northern Rhodesia; how many Africans qualify at present; and what is his estimate of the number of Africans who will qualify when the proposals of the Keir Report are carried out.

The normal minimum entry requirement is education to Form II standard, or its equivalent. Implementation of the Keir Report will not change this. About 5,000 Africans possess this qualification, although only a small proportion are likely to want technical courses.

Does not that Answer reveal that, even with the welcome reforms of the Keir Report, the opportunities for further and higher education of Africans are very limited because only such a small proportion of them receive higher education? Will not the right hon. Gentleman urgently investigate the need to develop the secondary educational system so that more Africans will qualify for higher education?

I think that the more we can do in this direction the better. The Keir Report is now being considered by a working party appointed by the three sponsors, and when I receive that I may be able to look at the matter further.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many ex- members of the Colonial Service or Her Majesty's Overseas Civil Service are receiving pensions from the Government of Uganda; and how many of these are receiving increases less than those received under the Pensions (Increase) Act. 1959 of the United Kingdom.

As my information is incomplete, I have asked the Government of Uganda for further information, and will write to my hon. Friend as soon as I have it.

Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the Uganda Government last year received 8·4 million dollars, and will receive more in pounds this year in the form of aid or loans; and that it is the poorer end of the pensioner scale that really requires attention?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what were the reasons for preventing the Malta Labour Party from broadcasting during the period of the election, in view of the fact that their political opponents were given such facilities.

Broadcasting facilities were offered to all political parties in proportion to their estimated strength. The Malta Labour Party made one broadcast in January, but when it was asked to re-write the script of a second broadcast because it contravened the provisions of the Broadcasting Ordinance it decided to make no further broadcasts at all.

Will the Minister give an assurance that in future the Labour Party of Malta will be given the same opportunity as the other parties of expressing its opinion on the wireless?

I see no reason to suppose that anything other took place.

In view of the general disquiet over the background of this election, would the Minister arrange to put in the Library the script of this broadcast that was banned, and the section to which objection was taken, so that we may make up our own minds about it?

I will certainly consider that, but the point is that there is this Ordinance, and it is clearly the responsibility of the authorities in Malta to see that all parties, whoever they may be, fall in line with the provisions of that Ordinance.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what representations on the subject of the Malta general election were made to him and the Governor of Malta by the Malta Labour Party and the Socialist International about two months before the general election on the island; what were the terms of the statement; and what reply was sent.

About six weeks before the elections Mr. Mintoff made certain complaints to the Governor about alleged bias on the part of the police and other authorities and sent a copy of them to me. These complaints were discussed with the Governor, but neither the Governor nor I was able to accept them. I have received no representations from the Socialist International.

Is the Colonial Secretary aware that the position was so serious six and eight weeks before the election that representation was made to the Governor, and nothing was done; that representation was also made to the Colonial Secretary in this House, and nothing was done? Now, when we call for an inquiry into the whole position, I hope that something will be done about it.

Nothing was done because it was not thought that the representations warranted it.

But is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have myself received documents that contain some very serious allegations about the conduct of these elections? Would he agree to meet me and a number of my hon. Friends in order to discuss those allegations?

Yes, Sir, certainly.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any adjustments will be made to the Constitution of Malta as a result of his conversations with the Prime Minister of Malta.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on his talks with the Prime Minister of Malta.

I have discussed with the Prime Minister of Malta a number of suggestions he has made for alterations to the Constitution. I finally conveyed to him yesterday my willingness to accept the majority of his proposals, and I am awaiting his reply.

While welcoming my right hon. Friend's agreement with the Prime Minister of Malta, and particularly the display of confidence this shows in the new Maltese Government, may I ask when it is likely that these Amendments will come into effect when they are finally agreed; will they come into effect immediately?

I cannot see why there should be any delay, but I am awaiting the Prime Minister's reply.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the many friends of Malta here are very pleased that the Prime Minister of Malta has, in four weeks, been able to get as much as we understand he has got from a rather grudging and slightly mistrustful Colonial Office? Will my right hon. Friend, in the next few days, while the Prime Minister of Malta is still here, do everything possible to come to a final decision? And, eventually, can we please have a debate on the whole Malta question?

The question of a debate is not, of course, for me. I have been doing my best to reach agreement with the Prime Minister of Malta, and I am very anxious to do so, because there is one point on which I have found great difficulty. I cannot accept that it is right for Malta to be in danger of the public service of the island becoming a matter of political patronage.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say what agreement was reached with Dr. Olivier when he was here, what subjects were agreed to and those that were disagreed, and will he give the reasons why he disagreed?

I intend to do that. I should have liked to have done it in answer to Questions today, but I do not think I can do so until I have heard from the Prime Minister.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps were taken to inform ex-members of the Colonial and Her Majesty's Overseas Civil Services, on first appointment, that the responsibility to pay pensions lay with overseas Governments.

An offer of appointment is made to the public service of a particular territory. It is accompanied by a statement of the principal conditions of service in that territory, and these show that pensions are awarded under the legislations of that territory.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether that has always been the case? The Colonial White Paper of 1954 set out that Her Majesty's Overseas Civil Service was one Service under the Crown. Does he not agree that the remarks in another place of his predecessor, Lord Boyd, hardly support what he has just said?

I have looked into this question, but I cannot see any discrepancy between the White Paper of 1954 and this system which, I gather, has always applied; that actual pensions legislation is the responsibility of the particular Government. I have looked at specimen documents given to people who axe being recruited, and I think that it is made quite clear that it is on the individual Government of the territory that the pensions responsibility rests.

But is it not the fact that recruits to the Overseas Civil Service accept their position on the assumption that their general security, including their pensions, is ultimately the responsibility of Her Majesty's Government here? Would not the Colonial Secretary look at this subject again, on the lines suggested from these benches, that it would be helpful for Her Majesty's Government to take over a much larger measure of responsibility for these pensions?

That is a very different question. The point here is Whether people, on taking up their appointments, are clearly informed about this and, on investigation, I am satisfied that they have been clearly informed.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what tonnage of sugar will be imported during 1961–62 under agreements with Colonial Territories; and what proportion of the estimated production this represents in each case.

The only agreement under which sugar is imported into the U.K. from Colonial Territories is the Commonwealth Sugar Agreement. Shipments of sugar from Colonial Territories to this country under this agreement arriving in 1961 or early 1962 totalled 1,049,000 long tons, representing approximately 53 per cent. of the estimated production of the Colonial Territories which are parties to the C.S.A. With the hon. Member's permission, I will circulate the detailed figures in respect of the main colonial sugar-producing territories in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that promise, may I ask him whether, in view of the restriction on emigration from these countries, it is not very desirable that we should do our utmost to assist them in sugar production, which in many of these territories is the mainstay of the economy? Is it not a little humiliating that Jamaica should be now sending someone to the United States of America to beg them to take Jamaican sugar, and is it not all wrong that we should be maintaining Imperial Preference for the Republic of South Africa when our own Colonial Territories and Commonwealth are in this need?

I think the importance of the sugar price to the West Indian territories is very high, but it is very wrong to under-estimate what this country is doing. We are buying very large quantities of sugar from this part of the world at a price away above the world market price, which represents an enormous advantage to these countries.

Does not the Colonial Secretary agree that just because we are buying at this very much higher price, as he says, there is not necessarily a limit to the amount of sugar we can buy at that price? Is it not a great scandal that some of that amount is now bought from a foreign country under the Commonwealth Sugar Agreement, when all of it quite clearly should be used for the benefit of the Colonies and the Commonwealth countries?

The right hon. Gentleman is trying to reopen a rather different question.

Is it not true that one of the beneficiaries of the Commonwealth Agreement is Swaziland, but, because of the South Africa Act, the price in that territory is depressed by £10 per ton, and expansionist possibilities are being deliberately repressed in order to subsidise foreign producers in South Africa? Is not that an outrage?

If the hon. Gentleman will put that Question down, I shall be very glad to answer it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps he is taking to alleviate the unemployment situation in Kenya.

The Kenya Government, in consultation with Her Majesty's Government, have been able, partly by adjusting their development plan, to increase the number employed in the public sector. A long-term solution is difficult without increased investment in the private sector, which provides over two-thirds of the jobs, and where much depends on the confidence of investors. One thousand families have been settled during the last few weeks on land excised from the forests. Planting grants will be made to assist these settlers.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that the latest estimates about unemployment that have come out of Kenya are very alarming indeed? In the meantime, will he do everything he can to increase assistance in the public sector while awaiting the political developments which, we hope, will encourage private investment?

I do regard this question of unemployment in Kenya very seriously, and I can assure the House that the new Government are well aware of it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how much of the money loaned by the World Bank in 1961 for African resettlement in Kenya has been spent; and how much has been allocated to specific resettlement projects.

International Bank loans are drawn in reimbursement of expenditure on the basis of specific settlement projects approved by the Bank. None of the loan has yet been drawn; but the Kenya Government have so far earmarked £180,000 of the loans from the International Bank and the Colonial Development Corporation for specific settlement projects.

Is not that rather a depressing Answer? Can my right hon. Friend give the House any assurance that the bulk of this money will be used before the end of the year?

It is a little disappointing that it has not gone faster, but the difficulty is to find suitable tenants for this type of scheme with adequate capital of their own and adequate standards to meet the rather substantial requirements. It is disappointing that it has not gone faster, but I have no doubt that every effort is being and will be made to make things move as fast as we can.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the Zanzibar constitutional conference.

Useful discussions took place at the conference on a number of constitutional issues. I told the delegates that Her Majesty's Government agreed to extend the franchise in Zanzibar by removal of the means and educational qualifications, and to appoint an independent Commission to recommend the number of elected members to sit in the Legislative Council, and to delimit the new constituencies on that basis. The way would then be clear for the holding of further elections. I regret that, in the absence of agreement between the Zanzibar Ministers and the Opposition delegates, it proved impossible to settle the timetable for further advance towards self-government and independence, but I reaffirmed on behalf of Her Majesty's Government that full independence is still the aim for Zanzibar.

I will, with permission, circulate a fuller statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I very much welcome the decision about the extension of the franchise, but is the Colonial Secretary aware that there is a good deal of disappointment that he was not as successful in Zanzibar as he was in Kenya in getting the two groups of politicians to co-operate in the interests of their country for the time being? Will he say whether he has asked the British Resident to continue these efforts in Zanzibar.

The British Resident—who, I think, is an outstanding Resident—is continuing his efforts, and I am sure that if any man can make progress, he will.

Is the Minister aware of the very deep disappointment there is that there has not been a successful conclusion to these discussions as there was under his leadership in Kenya? In the case of Zanzibar, would it not have been possible to reach a compromise, first, by giving the Opposition the adult suffrage they desire and, second, by asking for a Coalition Government until independence, on the same basis as he adopted in Kenya?

A Coalition Government is precisely what I did ask for, but the great question was whether there should be elections or not. On that, it is difficult to compromise.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what educational facilities are now available to the children of St. Helena; and what opportunities for further education are open to them.

Education is compulsory for children up to the age of fifteen. There are eight primary and three senior schools and there is one secondary school for children who pass the necessary examination. At this school, courses may be taken leading to the Royal Society of Arts General Certificate Examination. Courses at the Teacher Training Centre provide opportunities for further education. Apprentice training is given by the Public Works and Agricultural and Forestry Departments.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that if we analyse that position we find it very unsatisfactory? Does it not reveal that there are fewer opportunities for further education in St. Helena than in any other British overseas territory? Would not the Secretary of State consider setting up some scheme whereby young people from St. Helena who wish to proceed further with their education may come to this country to do so, bearing in mind that the population of St. Helena is only 4,500?

Yes, Sir. It is just because the population is so small and the geography is such as it is, that it is difficult to arrange for adequate educational facilities. I think we are making progress with it, but if the hon. Gentleman has any suggestions for improving the situation. I should be very glad to consider them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will now approve some measure of constitutional reform for St. Helena.

I am glad to report that the earlier proposals, by which the present nominated Advisory Council would be replaced by one consisting of eight elected and eight nominated or ex officio members, are now generally acceptable. I am arranging for the necessary constitutional instruments to be prepared as soon as possible.

May I say how glad I am personally to welcome that information, and to express the hope that this new experiment in St. Helena will be a great success?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he has now ascertained, as a result of the Commission of Inquiry, the precise cause of the disorders in British Guiana; what is the estimated amount of damage caused by the disorder; whether the situation is now quiet; when the troops are likely to be withdrawn; if a locally recruited militia is now receiving consideration; and whether the Independence Conference will be postponed.

I am appointing a Commission of Inquiry to report on the causes of the disturbances. The British Guiana Government, which is constitutionally responsible for internal security, has not published an estimate of the damage caused. The situation is now quiet and the number of troops has been reduced. British Guiana already has a local volunteer Defence Force. As to the last part, I have nothing to add to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Willesden, West (Mr. Pavitt) on 23rd March.

Arising out of that reply, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman how long we are likely to have to wait before we get the report of this inquiry, and whether there is any kind of interim report to show us exactly what were the causes of these unfortunate disturbances?

I have invited certain gentlemen to be members of the Commission, but I have not yet received their answers. It is difficult to get hold of people of the eminence one wants. It is most important to have people whose judgment will be respected. I hope very soon to get the Commission established, and I am sure that it will begin its work as soon as possible.

Can the right hon. Gentleman at least give us some clue as to the composition of this Commission, and, in particular, say whether there will be members from other Commonwealth countries and from this country?

Yes, Sir. The idea is that it should be of a judicial character, with a chairman from this country and other members from other Commonwealth countries.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies (1) if he will make a statement about the Government's financial contribution for the rehabilitation of British Honduras, following the recent hurricane;

(2) whether he has come to a decision about the re-siting of the capital of British Honduras, in the light of the severe damage to Belize, following the recent hurricane.

Financial talks with the British Honduras delegation are in progress. I will make statements on both Questions after these discussions are concluded.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that it is now about five months since this disaster took place and that no major work of reconstruction can even be begun until some decision is given? Will he expedite that decision? On my second Question, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that Belize was built on a swamp, is very much overcrowded, with no room for expansion at all, and that it might be wiser to rebuild it inland on somewhat higher ground? Can he give some estimate of the comparative cost of rebuilding on the old site, with a wall round to keep the sea out, which will probably be necessary, and rebuilding on a new site inland, which might be the cheaper of the two alternatives?

We have already provided over £800,000, and further bills are coming in, but the question of the capital is a very large one, involving many millions of pounds, and the question which my hon. Friend mentions is precisely one which we are examining at the present time.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a good deal of disquiet on this side of the House as well at some of the delay in reaching a final settlement with Mr. George Price? Will he do everything he can to hurry it up?

Yes, Sir, but I must point out that there are many millions of pounds involved in this and that before we provide money from this country to that extent we must be quite clear that we are spending it to the best advantage.

asked the Minister of Education if he will send a circular to local education authorities drawing attention to the undesirability of issuing school meal tickets in different colours for different amounts paid.

My right hon. Friend agrees that it is undesirable for any procedure to be adopted in the meals service which may lead to the identification at school of those children who are receiving meals either free or at a reduced charge. Details of the arrangements are, however, a matter for the local education authority, and he does not consider that it would be appropriate for him to issue any instructions about them.

Since a number of education authorities at the moment are experimenting with different systems of collecting school meals payments in order to relieve the teaching staff of the responsibility, would not this be a very appropriate time for the Minister to remind them that they should not adopt a system which clearly sets apart children receiving free or cheap meals from the others, because, while a number of them do not mind, some who may be more sensitive may be caused very great distress?

My right hon. Friend shares the view expressed by the hon. Lady in the latter part of her question, and I think it is true that most local authorities, if not all, are now alerted to the danger which would arise from anything which resulted in differentiating between children who pay and those who do not. I think their attitude generally is quite enlightened on the point.

asked the Minister of Education if he is aware that in the western division of the Durham County Juvenile Employment Office the amount of benefit paid in unemployment insurance and National Assistance benefits to young people leaving school increased by over 100 per cent. to some £615 in the past two years; and if he will now increase the school leaving age to 16 years.

I am aware that there are more young people unemployed in this district than there were a year ago. With regard to the second part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to my statement in the debate on 21st March, 1960. Local, and I hope temporary, fluctuations in employment cannot be the deciding factor.

While appreciating the gravity of the situation, which the Minister recognises, may I ask him whether he is aware that this is one of fourteen areas in the County of Durham with a similar juvenile unemployment situation? Would the right hon. Gentleman consider putting a proposal to the Secretary of State for War with a view to taking over the military training camp, with its indoor and outdoor facilities, in order to implement, to some extent, the Albemarle Report?

If such a proposal is put to me, I will certainly consider it.

On the general question of raising the school-leaving age, is the Minister sufficiently aware that an obligation is placed on him by the Education Act? In view of the Crowther Committee's Report, does not he think it high time that he made a specific statement on this matter?

I am aware of the statement in principle that we must raise the school-leaving age, but we must first ensure that the teachers are available.

asked the Minister of Education what grant was paid to the National Institute for Adult Education in 1961–62 to enable the Institute to conduct its inquiry into the accommodation and staffing of adult education; and what grant he proposes to make during the next financial year.

£2,000 was paid in 1961–62, and up to £500 has been offered for 1962–63, towards the cost of completing the job.

Is the Minister aware that this is barely adequate for the completion of this job? Can he cast his mind back to the Swansea annual conference in which he himself suggested that this line of development should be a permanent feature of the National Institute? Can he hold out some hope that next year he will be prepared to make an annual grant which will enable permanent inquiries of this sort to be made?

I must consider the question of subsidising a permanent research unit. As the hon. Gentleman remembered when he came to see me, I was not able to accept that at the time.

asked the Minister of Education if he is satisfied that schools are getting meat of the quality and type for which they are paying; and what specialised staff he has with responsibility for inspecting meat bought by education authorities.

Local education authorities are responsible for running the school meals service and it is for them to ensure that the meat supplied to schools is up to standard. My right hon. Friend has no specialised staff to inspect meat purchased for the schools.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there have been complaints that meat has been bought of a quality below that justified by the price paid compared with the price for an equivalent grade of meat in the shops? Will he not agree that it is a pity that certain local education authorities are determined that schools should buy a fairly large percentage of foreign meat with home-produced meat?

Yes, Sir, but these are matters for the local authorities themselves to decide, and I think that that is where the responsibility should lie. If my hon. Friend has any specific cases in mind, I will be glad to look into them.

Why does not my hon. Friend buy Scottish meat to avoid all this trouble?

I think that my hon. Friend's persuasive powers should be directed to the local authorities.

Could not my hon. Friend instruct the local education authorities to buy British meat during the summer, at any rate, when British meat is plentiful, is in good supply and is very cheap, thereby helping the Exchequer to save subsidies?

Local authorities have to balance all these considerations with the amount of money that they are allowed to spend per meal and the object of getting a properly balanced diet.

asked the Minister of Education if, in view of the difficulties caused to applicants for training college places and the clearing house by the lateness of the General Certificate of Education A level examination results, he will now ask the examining boards to hold their examinations three months earlier each year.

No, Sir. This would be unacceptable to the schools, and impracticable for the examining bodies. I do not, however, rule out the possibility of holding the summer examinations a little earlier than at present, and this is being studied.

Can we not do something practical for the schools? In view of the number of university applications, will the Minister not consult both the teacher training college clearing house and the university clearing house to see what can be done about the matter? Late results cause considerable difficulties for a number of successful candidates who may be disappointed in gaining entry to a college and may be lost to the teaching profession.

The schools are very much against going to a month like March, for reasons which the hon. Gentleman will know. It is also necessary to secure the examiners, a large number of whom are available only in the holidays

In spite of the good work done by the Secondary Schools Examinations Committee, has the time not come when there should be a general review of the General Certificate Examination by a well-established, broad-based committee?

That is another question which would have to be considered with great care.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what arrangements he is making to convert surplus milk into dried milk powder to be made available to developing countries where children are suffering from protein deficiency.

As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said on 5th April, it would not be worthwhile to install additional processing plant to deal with the small temporary surplus of skim milk that may occur. I understand that the Oxford Committee for Famine Relief has discussed with the Milk Marketing Board the possibility of transporting skim milk to Northern Ireland for processing. But in view of the very high transport costs and the technical difficulties that would be involved it has been agreed, very reluctantly, that the operation would not be justified.

There will be great concern at that reply, especially since the news that this milk was to be processed in Northern Ireland received a warm welcome from the public. Is it still too late to find some means of financing the transport so that the milk can be utilised for children who are suffering desperately from deficiency diseases in the famine areas? Cannot something be done, perhaps by the Oxford Committee for Famine Relief, to help in this matter?

I naturally understand the feelings of the hon. Lady about this matter, but we must keep it in proportion. The cost of new plant in order to dry skim milk could be hundreds of thousands of pounds, and the volume of skim milk concerned is only small and of a temporary nature.

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will appreciate the concern that exists about this matter. We are dealing with a surplus product and methods by which it might be used and disposed of. Will the Government, despite the hon. Gentleman's answer today, keep this matter in mind with a view to doing more work regarding the best ways of using this product?

Certainly, and the Milk Marketing Board is, naturally, very concerned to find some practical outlet for all the skim milk, but this seems to be proving an insuperable difficulty.

Will my hon. Friend ensure that everyone has the correct impression about this product? It is not milk but skim milk which results from butter-making.

So what?

Are not the figures which the Government keep giving us rather misleading? Is this expenditure of hundreds of thousands of pounds not a once-and-for-all expenditure for plant which could be used indefinitely, year after year, to deal with a surplus which although it may seem fairly small to us will, none the less, be recurring? Might it not also increase in years to come and would not such expenditure really be economical so that good protein food could be given to people who are starving?

This is a bulky commodity and a highly perishable one, and it is misleading to try to represent this particular small seasonal surplus as something of very great moment.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will consult the Agricultural Research Council and the appropriate marketing boards with a view to promoting a joint research project into the processing of surplus perishable farm produce both for human consumption and for animal feedingstuffs.

Surpluses are significant for only a few products and only occasionally for these. The marketing boards are responsible for promoting efficient disposal of their respective products and arrange for research as necessary. The technical problems connected with processing are generally less difficult than the economic problems of disposal but we shall always be ready to bring to the notice of the Agricultural Research Council any matters requiring fundamental research.

Is this not doing it the wrong way round? In view of the public criticism that is bound to grow when surplus foods in this country are destroyed and when there is hunger in the world, is it not desirable to get a research project going to see what can be done to process surplus products? While they may be seasonal, could not these surplus products over a period of time provide animal feedingstuffs, and so on, if the research work is properly done?

Although, as I said, the problem is more the economic one of disposal, research is going on by the Horticultural Marketing Council into the processing of surplus apples, by the Tomato and Cucumber Marketing Board into the processing of small and low-grade tomatoes, and the Agricultural Research Council has been asked to look at the qusetion of skim milk. It would be wrong to suppose, therefore, that a great deal of attention is not being given to this subject.

Is my hon. Friend aware that some surplus skim milk has a considerable value in its natural state as a fertiliser when employed as a spray on land, particularly hill farming land and forestry land? Will my hon. Friend consider this aspect as one of the possible ways for using some of this skim milk?

I have not had experience of that, but the most natural outlet for this product is for stock feed. The demand for this is increasing and the Milk Marketing Board is endeavouring to develop that outlet, but, as I pointed out, hon. Members should remember that this surplus is an irregular one.

Why do we have this policy of at one time having a surplus of foods which we cannot get rid of and at another time a shortage of potatoes?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will give an assurance that the present policy for dealing with fowl pest will not be discarded until a workable scheme has been agreed with the poultry industry to carry forward the vaccination programme recommended by the Plant Committee, with compensation for the slaughter of diseased stock on terms acceptable to the industry.

My right hon. Friend and his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland are now in consultation with the poultry industry on the Report of the Plant Committee and they wish to make progress with their consultations with the industry and others concerned before coming to any conclusions on future policy.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if, before he introduces amending legislation, he will consult all sections of the pig industry to get their views on the Pig Industry Development Authority's proposal to double the levy on pigs slaughtered so as to bring in an additional £500,000 a year for research and advertising.

My right hon. Friend and his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland will naturally be ready to receive any representations from the industry and to consider them with the Pig Industry Development Authority.

Would my hon. Friend not agree that Parliament should not be asked to authorise the collection of this additional levy of £500,000 a year from pig producers and bacon curers unless they are satisfied, from experience and the prospects of further research and development, that they are likely to get value for the money that will be exacted from them? [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer."]

As it appears that the hon. Gentleman does not intend to reply to that question, will he say if representations have already been made and, if so, by what organisations? While it would be wrong to criticise the P.I.D.A. as such, because it is a useful instrument of policy, were the pig producers consulted?

My right hon. Friend has received representations from the National Pig Breeders' Association, the National Farmers' Union and others, and he is prepared to consider such representations. I can assure hon. Members that he will not ask the House to approve an Order unless he considers that its contents are right and proper.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether the representations were against the levy?

They are, by and large, against an increased charge, which is natural, but I think that a lot of people—both inside and outside the industry—probably do not appreciate, although J know the hon. Gentleman does, the value of research, which is one of the projects which the Pig Industry Development Authority has in mind.

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will state the proportion of the national income which was spent on all university education for the years 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960 and 1961 and the estimated proportion for the years 1962,1963,1964 and 1965.

As the reply contains a table of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

What will be the approximate proportion in 1965–66? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the answer I received from his Department the other day, to the effect that in 1964–65 the ratio of university students will be I in 19 of the relevant age group and that, in the following year, it will be I in 22? How can the right hon. Gentleman expect to create a modern, progressive and thriving Great Britain if he does not do something about our educational facilities?

I explained to the House last week that the Government are increasing their allocations from public funds to the universities at an unpredented rate. They have been doubled in the last five years and they will increase by 50 per cent. in the next five.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will now make a statement about the Government's policy on resale price maintenance.

No, Sir. This is a complicated matter and I have not yet completed my study of the results of the fact-finding inquiry conducted by my Department.

Is this not yet another subject on which the Board of Trade has been engaged in active consideration for months, if not years past? Can the right hon. Gentleman say if there is any prospect on his making up his mind on this one?