asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps he is taking to stabilise land prices in Kenya.

asked the Secretary of State far the Colonies if he will make a statement on the progress of land settlement in Kenya, on his proposals for agricultural development and on the assurance of the agricultural economy of Kenya.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if the outline plan he has proposed to the Government of Kenya for the settlement of Africans on land to be acquired from European farmers will be administered by an authority broadly enough based to be independent of political parties in Kenya, so that the arrangements will command the confidence of ail concerned regardless of the party in office.

By the end of last month over 200,000 acres had been purchased or approved for purchase for African land settlement in Kenya. Her Majesty's Government are prepared to finance the expansion of the present scheme up to a total of about 1 million acres of predominantly mixed farming land; and the Kenya Government have been invited to put forward proposals for high density settlement at the rate of about 200,000 acres a year. When this scheme is nearing completion, we would be prepared to consider providing assistance for a further extension. The new scheme will be administered by a Central Land Board, which will include one member from each Region and one from the Central Government, with a chairman chosen in such a way as to ensure his independence. We hope that this plan will not only provide smallholdings for large numbers of African farmers, but will also help to stabilise land values.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that encouraging reply, which I think is a real step forward towards stabilising land values in Kenya. Will he give an assurance that all of this fund will not be channelled into the purchase of mixed farms but that some money will be allocated for the purchase of specialised farms, ranches and plantations?

The money will not necessarily be used exclusively for mixed farming land, but that is the overriding need.

Will my right hon. Friend agree that the value of this policy depends a great deal on the speed with which it is carried out? Will he do all he can to accelerate the implementation of this policy? Particularly, can he say Whether he is making any special provision for the Settlement Board European farmers to whom Her Majesty's Government owe a particular obligation?

I should be glad if my right hon. Friend would table a separate Question on the second part of his supplementary question. In answer to the first part, it is, of course, our intention to try to speed up this process to the utmost. As things are now going, it looks as though we shall have managed to resettle about 5,000 families by the end of this year, but, if the plan is carried out as we hope, over the next four years about 70,000 further families wild be settled in this way.

While warmly welcoming this project, which some of us have discussed for many months, may I ask my right hon. Friend to keep in mind all the time that its success depends mainly on the confidence which Europeans and Africans have in the integrity and impartiality of the Board? It is most important to have a broad-based Board and the right men to tackle the job from the start.

I think that we have fully recognised that. It is one of the reasons why the Board is to be composed in the way that I indicated. The intention is to obtain a chairman, who will occupy a very important position, from outside Kenya.

I also welcome most warmly the right hon. Gentleman's state-meat and hope that he will use his influ- ence with the Chancellor of the Exchequer to extend this programme as soon as possible. May I ask two questions? First, can the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that in operating this programme he will be guided by the same principle as his predecessor, namely, that the interests of African agriculture will take priority over other considerations? Secondly, can he say what plans he has for increasing agricultural training for Africans in order to keep pace with the new responsibilities which will be placed on Africans by the scheme?

Naturally, we will do what we can to ensure that people are fitted for the responsibilities which the scheme will lay on them. We fully recognise the high importance of securing a rapid land settlement of large numbers of African families. On the other hand, it is our intention, and it is right that it should be so, to carry out any of these schemes in a manner which will be fair to all sections of the population.

I also welcome this scheme. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there has been a good deal of disappointment among Africans and Europeans about the extent of its immediate application? Is not this a very happy occasion when the compensation needs of the landless Africans and the European farmers coincide? Should not the greatest opportunity be taken to extend this scheme as rapidly as possible?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that there is no conflict in this between the interests of the Africans and the interests of the Europeans. I certainly endorse the hon. Gentleman's hope that we shall make as rapid progress as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on his visit to Kenya.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement about his talks with political parties in Kenya.

I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT the text of the statement made by my predecessor at the end of his recent talks in Kenya. From this it will be seen that the detailed drafting of the new Constitution is now being put in hand; and preparations for elections to the Regional Assemblies and the central Legislature are going forward.

I welcome the evidence of progress, however small, contained in the previous Colonial Secretary's statement and congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on assuming these heavy responsibilities. In view of the concern and uneasiness expressed in some East African newspapers at the change of responsibility for these problems, will the right hon. Gentleman take the earliest possible opportunity to visit Kenya himself to assure all the communities there that there is no change in Her Majesty's Government's policy on the Colony?

I can give that assurance straight away without going to Kenya. There is no change.

Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that any future constitution in Kenya will be based on Che regional system, the framework of which was decided at the recent conference? Will he bear in mind that any such system can be successful only if the regions are given a high degree of local autonomy by the central Government?

The question of the exact balance between the centre and the regions is of cardinal importance in this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many Colonies or protectorates having populations of 25,000 or less come within the control of his Department; and how many are in size less than 152 square miles.

The answers to the two parts of the Question are 7 and 13, respectively.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I find it quite interesting that there should be so many countries for which his Department is responsible none of which is larger than Rutland? Since we have a local inquiry this week to consider the independence of that county, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind, and persuade his colleagues to bear in mind, that if there is a threat to the independence of Rutland we shall put up as big a fight as the Colonies put up when they seek their independence?

Despite the present duties of the Minister, I do not think that they cover that field.

I do not think it is any use comparing an English county with a Pacific island.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he has yet received the report of the investigation being carried out into the affairs of Bailey, Malta, Ltd.

No, Sir.

I thank the Minister for the brevity of his reply. Is he aware that it is over three years since Baileys took over this concern with a flourish of trumpets and that it was said that this would save the economic position in Malta? Nothing has been dome up to now. Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the transition from a naval dockyard to a commercial dockyard has yet started?

I should like to await the report, which I hope to receive in the next few weeks.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps are being taken to provide alternative employment for the men who are to be discharged from the naval base at Malta; how many now industries have been set up on the island during the past three years; and how many persons are employed in them.

The Government of Malta are at present engaged in revising their Development Plan with particular regard to the provision of additional employment. I am informed that in the last three years 22 new industries have been started and that these are at present employing about 800 persons.

Is the Minister aware that there is a deep feeling of frustration and anxiety among workers in the dockyard and that the Flag Officer recently told members of the General Workers' Union that a large number of them would be dsmissed and that this was an irrevocable decision? Are we turning the island into a distressed area? If the Government are sacking people in the dockyard, they should not do so with the impunity that the Prime Minister sacks members of the Cabinet. We shall protest if the Government decide to do that.

The Cabinet do not have a workers' charter. I understand that the Government of Malta are studying plans to provide alternative employment for those discharged. As soon as they are ready, I shall be happy to discuss these matters with them.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that when the former Prime Minister of Malta was faced with a problem such as unemployment he received considerable help from this country? Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that the present Prime Minister will be treated as generously in the difficulties which now face him?

We do not discriminate between Prime Ministers.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what financial settlement, by way of special loans or grants, is being made to Jamaica to coincide with independence.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my right hon. Friend to the Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey) on 10th July.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what financial settlement, by way of special loans or grants, is being made to Trinidad and Tobago to coincide with independence.

The discussions on this matter are not yet completed.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that these two islands need not only grants but access as much as possible to loans raised not merely from the British Goverrnment but on the London market? Will he give an assurance that in any decisions taken, particularly with regard to Trinidad, an attempt will be made to make loans available particularly for a big housing drive in Trinidad, which would do more fully to stabilise the economy than any other thing that we could do at the moment?

The Premier of Trinidad and Tobago explained to Her Majesty's Government his country's needs whilst he was here. He has now returned to Trinidad, but the discussions are continuing with the representative of the Trinidad Government in London. I am sure that the points mentioned by the hon. Gentleman will feature in those discussions.

One of the very best things which the night hon. Gentleman could do to help would be to extend the Colonial Development Corporation's operations to these newly independent territories—for example, in respect of housing—which would probably do more than anything else to ensure the continued development of these islands.

The right hon. Gentleman and I are agreed on this matter. I hope to be in a position to make a statement on that subject before very long.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when he expects to publish the new agreement on the Constitution of Aden.

I would refer the hon. Member to the answers given to the hon. Members for Bilston (Mr. R. Edwards) and Leyton (Mr. Sorensen) on 10th July.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him if he is aware that there is a very great and very deep concern among the majority of the people of Aden about the effect of the new constitutional agreement? In view of this, would he at least undertake that before final ratification is made, and before the ending of the present period of tenure of the Legislative Council at the end of the year, he will sent a Parliamentary Commission to inquire into what is the best way of meeting the needs of the people of Aden?

I am not so sure about a Parliamentary Commission. I think that, on the whole, if one wants to know what suits the people of a certain part of the world, it is better, perhaps, to consult the people who live there.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind, during the discussions this month, that the best way to ensure political peace in Aden is to have constitutional advance and fresh elections there, before there is any question of associating Aden with the territories of the protectorates? Will he give a categorical assurance that the elections which are due, in any case, at the end of this year will not be suspended?

I do not wish anything to be read into my answer. All I would say is that I do not think it would be useful for me to make any statement on this constitutional problem until we have had the talks that are due to take place next week.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when the Aden Girls' College is to be reopened; and what new arrangements are proposed to avoid a recurrence of recent difficulties.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the girls' college at Aden will be reopened for the new session this year; and if he will make a statement.

The Aden Government announced earlier this month that the girls' college will be reopened in October. It is proposed to make some amendments to the curriculum, and to establish a parents' committee. There will also be certain staff changes.

While welcoming the Minister's reply, may I ask whether he can give the House more information about whether the principalship of the college has now been decided? Is he aware that if the college is to open properly in October and to try to overcome the quite disastrous gap which has been created in the education of these girls, the principalship should be decided now to allow a really new start to take place?

I fully recognise the importance of this matter, but I am sure the hon. Member will realise that in the 24 hours I have been in my new office I have not had much time to study the problems of the girls' college in Aden.

May I say that I am particularly pleased to hear that a parents' association has been established covering the students of this school, because many of the parents have forced the girls into early marriage because of the closure of the school? I hope that this will contribute towards ending this injustice against the young girls.

Early marriage is not always a bad thing.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is satisfied that there will not be any serious industrial unrest in the Colony of Aden as a protest against the agreement signed on 17th May between the Federation of South Arabia and the Colony of Aden; and if he is now in a position to make a statement designed to allay the suspicions regarding this agreement which are widespread among the peoples concerned.

There are rumours that the Aden trade unions will call a strike on 23rd July as a protest against the constitutional proposals on which the Ministers of the Colony and the Federation have provisionally agreed, but which have not yet been published. A full statement will be issued after my discussions with the Aden Ministers beginning next week. Meanwhile, I hope that all concerned with reserve their judgment.

Is the Minister aware that the people of Aden Colony and many thousands in the Protectorate suspect that this secret agreement, which has never even been discussed in the Legislative Council, will halt constitutional reform in the Colony and will link the Colony with the Protectorate, which is undemocratic? Is it not important, therefore, that the secret agreement should no longer be secret and that a statement should be made to allay the legitimate suspicions of democratic people in Aden?

A statement will be made very shortly.

Is the Minister aware that the statements by his predecessor that what is proposed on 23rd July is an informal conference on a provisional agreement are welcome and should go a long way to allay some of the suspicions? Is he aware, therefore, that we on this side endorse what he has said in asking people to reserve their judgment and not to take hasty action until we know what proposals will come out of the constitutional conference?

I am grateful for support from all quarters.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what decision has been reached on the future of the Aden Industrial Relations Ordinance.

In a statement on 8th July, the Aden Government announced that they wish to review this Ordinance and propose to consult both sides of industry about it. I will, with permission, circulate a copy of this statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what powers granted by original treaties are today exercised by Her Majesty's Government with the Governor of Aden in respect of the Aden Protectorate; and how far those treaties have been subsequently extended or amended.

Her Majesty's Government have responsibility for defence and external relations, supplemented in some of the more recent treaties by the right to give mandatory advice on matters connected with good government. In addition, the Treaty of Friendship and Protection between Britain and the Federation of South Arabia provides for shared responsibility for the internal security of the Federation. The original treaties have not been amended.

Has any such mandatory advice been given to the rulers of the Protectorates regarding the need to introduce at least some measure of de-mocratisation? If that has not been done, and in any case if it has been done, can the right hon. Gentleman say whether Her Majesty's Government intend to give such mandatory advice to the rulers in the future?

In internal affairs these are self-governing friendly States, and it is not our intention, unless there are very special circumstances, to interfere in any way in their traditional institutions.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that if we have power and responsibility in respect of giving mandatory advice and wish to encourage closer association between the Protectorates and the Colony, there is an obligation upon Her Majesty's Government at least to give such advice as I have mentioned?

The fact that one has power does not necessarily mean that it is always desirable or right to exercise it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what is the present estimated population in Aden Colony of Aden Arabs, Protectorate Arabs, Yemeni Arabs, Somalis, Jews, British and other Europeans, respectively; by what means inclusion in these categories was determined at the last census and in later estimates; what is the estimated number or percentage of those who evaded registration at the last census; approximately how many Yemenis enter and leave the Colony annually; and what are the regulations controlling immigration into the Colony.

Since the answer is lengthy and includes a table of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

While I appreciate the reason for that answer, might I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he does not agree that it is imperative to try to define who are Adenese, and that no constitutional development can take place unless there is a clear definition of who are Adenese, who are Yemeni and who are the others resident in the country but are not entitled to the franchise?

That is not always easy to establish.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will now set a maximum as well as a minimum period for the holding of a referendum on the future of the two lost counties in the Buganda-Bunyoro dispute, recommended by the Molson Commission to be transferred to Bunyoro.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what reply he has sent to a letter to him, dated 5th July, from the Chairman of the Bunyoro Constitutional Committee, pressing him to include in the Uganda independence Constitution a maximum as well as a minimum period for the holding of a referendum on the future of the two lost counties in the Buganda-Bunyoro dispute which were recommended by the Molson Commission to be transferred to Bunyoro.

The Uganda Government will have the responsibility for establishing conditions in which the people can express their opinion without fear of violence or intimidation. That is why it was thought right to leave them the right to decide when the referendum can properly be held. I am replying to the Chairman of the Bunyoro Constitutional Committee accordingly.

If the argument is, as I can understand it might be, that it is wrong to impose terms on a country that has achieved independence on how to conduct elections or, for that matter, a plebiscite, can the Secretary of State say why it is wrong to fix a maximum term, when it is apparently quite in order to tell the future independent Uganda Government that it cannot hold a referendum for two years after independence; in other words, to set a minimum term? If the Government are prepared to put that into the declaration, why cannot they put it in as regards the maximum? [Interruption.] I do not blame my right hon. Friend for having my words crowded out by a very much more important incident —my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Wirral (Mr. Selwyn Lloyd) coming into the Chamber. If there is no lack of intention by Mr. Obote's Central Government to hold a plebiscite, can the Secretary of State give any con-cievable reason why he should not be prepared to agree that with Her Majesty Government?

Of course, my predecessor would have liked to have been able to persuade both sides to accept the recommendations of the Molson Commission, which were of a different nature, but in view of the impossibility of achieving agreement, he thought it best to impose the compromise which we are now operating. All I can say is that I am not prepared to give any promise to reopen this very prickly question.

Would the Minister seriously consider having further consultations with Mr. Obote, the Prime Minister of Uganda, before he finally sends his reply to Bunyoro? As he knows, there are certain things which it is possible for a colonial Power to do while it still has responsibility, which would be very difficult for the Prime Minister of Uganda, with the best will in the world, to do? Is he aware that the best way to achieve peace and restraint in Bunyoro, which we all hope for during the years that lie immediately ahead, would be by giving a considerable reassurance that at some point there is at least the certainty of a referendum and self-determination?

I think we must trust the new central Government to act with responsibility and impartiality.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what progress has been made towards the revision of the Constitution in Basutoland.

I understand that the Constitutional Commission appointed by the Paramount Chief has held a number of meetings. It has also received a large number of memoranda from members of the public, which it is now studying.

Can my right hon. Friend say when the Commission is likely to report, and will he agree that the constitutional position of the Paramount Chief is anomalous? Will he give consideration to making him Head of State in Basutoland, subject to the High Commissioner, while Basutoland is still a dependent territory?

I am afraid that I cannot say when I am to receive this report. It first has to be debated by the Basuto National Council before it is sent to me, and, therefore, the timetable is not in my hands. In regard to the position of the Paramount Chief, and whether or not he should be regarded as Head of State, that is one of the questions which was specifically referred to the Commission for consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if there is a fair wages clause operating in the knitwear industries in Hong Kong; and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir. Fair wages clauses, of course, apply only to Government contracts.

Is the Minister aware that the prices of these commodities from Hong Kong are doing irreparable damage to the industry in Scotland, and that only last week an industry in my own constituency closed down, the main cause being due to the prices of these commodities from Hong Kong? Is there not something that could be done at least to protect our own domestic trade and the employment of our own people against the possibility of sweated labour conditions in Hong Kong?

Of course, the level of wages in Hong Kong is different from the level of wages in the hon. Member's constituency, but, in regard to the knitwear industry, so far as I am able to ascertain, the level of wages in that industry is generally in line with the level of wages in other industries in Hong Kong.

Is the right hon. Gentleman intending to convey to the House that wages and conditions of labour in Hong Kong are such as to afford fair rather than unfair competition with the same goods produced under Lancashire's wages and conditions? If not, will he bear in mind that the citizens of Her Majesty living in Lancashire ought to receive at least as much consideration from the Government as those who live in Hong Kong?

On other occasions, the hon. Gentleman is very anxious to appear as the champion of the trading interests of the Commonwealth and Colonies. On this occasion, he takes a different line. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."]

Slave labour in Hong Kong.

It is because of the difference in the wage rates and other conditions that we have asked Hong Kong, as well as India and Pakistan, to accept voluntary restrictions upon their exports of textiles, with a view to protecting the position of Lancashire.

Is it not clear that many of the working conditions of these factories in Hong Kong would stand up to comparison with working conditions obtaining in this country? Is it not also a fact that although the standard of wages may be low by comparison with industry in this country, the people working in Hong Kong are grateful for whatever they can get in this respect, because it means a very great deal to them?

I do not propose to make any invidious comparisons.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies, in view of the rapidly increasing population of Hong Kong, how many full-sized schools of all kinds the Colony's Government have built since 1955; at what rate new Government or Government-subsidised schools are being opened; and at what rate Government and privately-owned schools together are being opened.

Since 1955, the Government of Hong Kong has itself built 64 schools and has subsidised 116 others. On the average, one new school, built or subsidised by the Government, is opened every tern days; or one every four days if privately-owned schools are included.

Does any other Colony have as good a record as this? Will my right hon. Friend give greater publicity to the Hong Kong Government's magnificent efforts both in housing and education?

I am sure the whole House will agree that the Government of Hong Kong are to be congratulated on the unrelenting efforts they have made to grapple with the stupendous problem of the influx of refugees and immigrants from Communist China.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many factories and workshops were established in Hong Kong, and what was the total labour force in 1948 and 1961; and what percentage of the present population of 3 million is now directly or indirectly dependent on industry.

There were about 1,100 registrable factories and workshops in 1948 and about 6,000 in 1961. The total labour force is now about 1,200,000. The figure for 1948 is not available. The answer to the last part of the Question is about 54 per cent.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that because Hong Kong does not have a domestic market it is very necessary for her to export? Will he discuss with the United States Government easement of American restrictions upon the import of goods from Hong Kong?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what contribution interested Governments can make towards the cost of the infrastructure needed to support new immigrants and excess population in Hong Kong, in view of the recent statement in regard to such contributions and the Hong Kong Gov- ernment's achievement in building roads, housing, hospitals and clinics over the past seven years without outside assistance.

As indicated in the statement to which my hon. Friend refers, the Government of Hong Kong have invited friendly and interested Governments to give financial assistance for the provision of a wide range of public services.

In view of the Hong Kong Government's fine achievements, will my right hon. Friend press Hong Kong's claims for special treatment in the current negotiations with the E.E.C. countries as a practical and effective gesture of international assistance?

In these negotiations we are watching very closely the special interests of Hong Kong.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies to what extent Her Majesty's Government have now implemented the recommendations of the Morse Commission on the High Commission Territories in Southern Africa.

As the House has already been informed, additional amounts of about £1 million and £180,000 have been made available for carrying out proposals made in the Morse Report. A further sum of £1 million has been provided for road improvements in Swaziland by the International Development Association, which also has under consideration similar applications from the other two Territories. In preparing their development plans, the Governments of the three territories are, of course, taking full account of the recommendations of the Commission.

Is the right ban. Gentleman satisfied that enough is being done to help these territories? With regard to the amount of capital and the time in which it is to be spent, did not the Morse Commission emphasise that large-scale development would be required quickly, and is it not doubly important now that South Africa has left the Commonwealth that these territories should not be so dependent upon that country but should move quickly forward to an independent economic basis of their own?

Yes, Sir; we fully recognise the importance of this matter. Naturally, we should like to do more, and that applies to many other countries which seek assistance from us, but there are limits to the amount of money which we can make available. I would draw attention to the fact that the Morse Commission itself fully recognised that its recommendations could not be put into effect overnight and would have to be introduced over a period of years.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that one thing that he could do with Swaziland at any rate is to bring its sugar fully back into the Commonwealth Sugar Agreement and not buy it at a cut price, as it is being bought today?

asked the Prime Minister if he has studied the recent reports of the Atomic Energy Authority, working in conjunction with United States scientists, on seismological detection of underground explosions, particularly on the progress in detection and recognition of small explosions; and to what extent this will modify the Western Powers' approach toward a nuclear test ban agreement.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will now make a statement on the meetings of the United States and British scientific teams in relation to the detection of underground tests.

As I explained last Thursday in the course of my reply to Questions by the right hon. Gentlemen the Members for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) and Derby, South (Mr. P. Noel-Baker), the meeting last week was one of a series of informal exchanges which take place from time to time between British and American scientists. On this occasion the meeting took place shortly after an interesting announcement by the American Department of Defense. This reported preliminary conclusions and observations on new information which had become available from developments in seismic techniques and the study of earthquake records.

Would it not appear that the Press also had seismological detectors in Whitehall last week in order to assess the rumblings that were taking place there? Might I also point out that we recognise that the Prime Minister is one of the members on the Government Front Bench who is holding down his own position? As a lot of progress has been made in the detection of underground tests and in detection between tests and earthquake tremors, might not progress be made at Geneva now towards a satisfactory agreement on the banning of tests without even having control posts inside the Soviet Union? Further, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it appears from Press reports that Her Majesty's Government are not as enthusiastic about getting a test agreement as the United States Government? Is this true?

The last part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is, of course, quite untrue. We have been trying our best for this, and our scientists have made very big contributions to the study of the problem throughout. At present the matter of trying to work out precisely the meaning of these new discoveries is still proceeding, and I would hope that as a result we should then be able to consider what modifications in our position we could make with a view to putting forward some fresh proposal. We have made many proposals, and we hope to make one which ultimately may lead to the banning of tests.

Is not the question of the detection and verification of underground tests the main obstacle to the achievement of a nuclear test ban agreement? As the Geneva Conference has resumed its deliberations, 'has it not became a matter of some urgency to decide whether or not it is scientifically possible to detect underground tests? Will not the Prime Minister take some further step to bring about a solution of the problem, for example, by proposing a meeting between the scientists of the United States and the United Kingdom and those of the Soviet Union, with a view to clearing the decks for this problem?

That last proposal is exactly the one we made some months ago which up to now has been refused. It is well worth considering whether it could be revived. We are in close discussion on this matter with our allies, the United States, and I hope that we may be able to make some advance.

With regard to underground explosions which still require the attention of seismologists, would the hon. Gentleman recall that last week when he made his answer to my right hon. Friend we asked him whether, as this was not just an ordinary routine meeting but was of great importance, he would consider publishing a White Paper with the conclusions of this meeting as recorded by the American and British scientists? In view of the importance of this to the next phase of the negotiations for a test ban, will the right hon. Gentleman agree to publish in a White Paper the conclusions of this meeting instead of relying on the rather general statement he has made this afternoon?

I have considered that, but I am not sure that it would be the most rapid method of advancing the negotiations.

Does not this proposal about detection offer by far the best opportunity of reaching a solution, or at any rate a partial solution, of this very vexed problem? Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the reports which appeared in several newspapers this morning that conversations to this effect, albeit of an informal character, have already taken place in Geneva, and will he encourage the British delegate there—I understand that it is the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs—to express, so far as is practicable, a conciliatory opinion?

I think that what we all hope to get is a successful negotiation. I hope the House will feel that we have tried to negotiate in the way most likely to get results. I am not able to say today how far the possibility of not having to have the inspection system on Russian soil alters the question whether certain on-site inspections will still be required as part of any treaty. All this is being carefully examined, and we hope to make progress.

As the United States report of latest developments has been made available to the Committee of 18 in Geneva, will the right hon. Gentleman make it available to Members of this House as well?

I have already placed in the Library a copy of the American Defense Department's statement.

asked the Prime Minister what communication he has received from the President of France or the Chancellor of the West German Republic acquainting him of their decision to hold early discussions on the creation of a European political union; and what reply he has sent.

We have been given a full account by the French and German Governments of the conclusions reached in the talks between President de Gaulle and Dr. Adenauer, including their decision to propose a meeting of the Six Heads of Government later this year.

Is it not an odd way of treating us in the course of the negotiations? Will my right hon. Friend make it quite plain to the Chancellor and to the President that Britain, whatever might be the outcome of the negotiations on the Common Market, will not contemplate entering into a European political union?

No, Sir. I think that this is perfectly correct. We are discussing the question of entering into the Common Market. My right hon. Friend knows that there is no reason why the Governments of the Community should not also discuss political questions, and they are keeping us fully informed of what they are doing.

What we are concerned with, and what the right hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Mr. Turton) is concerned with, is the attitude of Her Majesty's Government at this time to any question of our entering into a political union in Europe. I should like to ask the Prime Minister to clarify the position. Will he confirm that Her Majesty's Government have no intention of accepting, prior to any possible entry into the Common Market, any commitment whatever towards political union in Europe other than that involved in the general statement in the Preamble to the Treaty of Rome?

I think that that does not possibly arise. Until we have completed negotiations with the Common Market, this does not arise. But what the other Governments do we cannot prevent them doing. They have a right to do it. What they do is, with great courtesy, to keep us informed of their discussions.

Is it not the case that Her Majesty's Government have asked that they should take part in these political negotiations? If that is the case, should not the Prime Minister clarify the attitude of the Government in any such negotiations? May I repeat the question that I put to him? Will he confirm that Her Majesty's Government have no intention of entering into any commitment of a political character other than that involved in the Preamble to the Treaty of Rome, before any possible entry by Britain into the Common Market?

That would be quite impossible, because these negotiations are not taking place at the same time and will probably not even reach any further stage until later in the year. What we have asked is to be fully informed and formally consulted about what they may be doing, but that is a separate problem from that of the Community which we are now discussing.

May I take this opportunity first to congratulate my right hon. Friend on having kept his head while all about him were losing theirs— [Laughter.]

Order. The House enjoys its hilarities but it also enjoys getting through some Questions, and we cannot do both at the same time.

—and blaming it on him. Secondly, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he will agree that, whether or not this country enters the Common Market, it can only be a good thing for the Continent of Western Europe and the whole of the free world if Western Europe integrates politically as strongly and as much as possible?

With regard to the first part, those are rather morbid allusions. With regard to the second part, the phrases "political union" and "political combination" are very vague. We have to see what we have to consider and then we can make up our minds. What we are doing is to negotiate for the Common Market. When we see what happens there we can see whether there is any further degree of co-operation at which we wish to aim.

May I in turn congratulate the Prime Minister on the first demonstration of support that he has received from his back benches? Is not the night hon. Gentleman being rather disingenuous about this matter? Is not he aware that every Continental refers to the Common Market as being as much a political as an economic movement? Is it not time that the people of this country ware told whether the Government accept that if we go into the Common Market it has great political implications and is a step towards the political] unity of Europe which cannot be avoided?

At the risk of creating disunion among the crowded back benches of the right hon. Gentleman, I say that from the first study of the discussions that we have had here it has always been clear that there were political implications in the unity of Europe through the Common Market, but we would have to judge how far we could take it step by step.

Is not the Leader of the Opposition under a complete delusion in thinking that any British Government can enter into any commitment without the consent of Parliament?

With regard to my right hon. Friend's two Questions, is the Prime Minister aware that he is no longer in a position to go on fluffing and evading this issue, and that it is of paramount importance that we know now What has been said in Brussels on behalf of Her Majesty's Government? Since it is clear that those who are negotiating with us think that Britain recognises that to sign the Treaty of Rome involves a federal commitment, will the right hon. Gentleman now make it crystal clear that all we have been negotiating about is the Treaty of Rome, and that we are looking at that on its merits, in economic and similar terms, and that if we go in on economic terms we are not in any way committed to further progress towards a federal set-up in Europe? Will the right hon. Gentle-roan make that clear?

I think that it was made abundantly clear by the Head of the French Government, who is strongly opposed to any federal solution.

asked the Prime Minister if he will raise the question of the United Nations Development Decade at the meeting of Commonwealth Prime Ministers in September and suggest that the conference issues a declaration pledging all the Common-wealth countries to support the objectives of the Development Decade.

As I told the House on 19th April, the main purpose of the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' meeting in September will be to discuss the Common Market, but we shall, of course, make our normal review of world affairs. The detailed scope of our discussions is for the Prime Ministers themselves to decide collectively, and I would not wish to undertake at this stage to raise any particular subjects.

I appreciate what the Prime Minister has just said, but will he bear in mind the possibility of issuing a declaration, rather as he did after the last Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference, on the subject of disarmament? Does 'he agree that it is essential to give every possible thrust to the idea of a Development Decade and to see that it becomes not just a series of pious hopes but a real advance in the standards of developing countries?

Yes. I have every sympathy with the hon. Member's idea. But he must not underrate the enormous contributions which this country is making and is going on making towards the purpose that he has in mind. What I want to make clear is that I do not lay down the agenda, but that it is agreed by the Commonwealth Prime Ministers.

In view of the fact that many of the Commonwealth Prime Ministers will be coming from countries with appalling poverty and will, therefore, be coming here rightly expecting economic aid for their people, and bearing in mind that the income per capita in India is only £24 a year and in Pakistan £19 a year compared with our £387 a year, will my right hon. Friend make it abundantly clear to both sides of the House that if we are really going to help the under-developed countries it will involve big sacrifices at home?

The terrible gulf between the rich and the poor countries is one of the problems of the world, and it is best met by the developed countries trying to increase their wealth and effort and out of their superfluity helping the under-developed countries.

In view of the fact that the main source of capital for developing countries is the money they earn by selling their exports to the developed countries, can the Prime Minister assure the House that at the Prime Ministers' Conference he will insist that Britain will not join the Common Market unless the enlarged Common Market affords to the developing countries of the Commonwealth at least a prospect of a steadily expanding market for their exports?

The object of the Community is to have an expansion of wealth and to be an outward-looking and expanding Community.