asked the Minister of Health if he will make a statement on the progress made in the building of the new operating theatre at Dryburn Hospital, Durham.

A Central Sterile Supply Department has now been added to this project. I hope to approve sketch plans shortly.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the very serious conditions in Which the people are working in the Dryburn Hospital, and will he give an assurance that the work will be speeded up and completed within the next year or so?

Yes, Sir; I have visited the hospital. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, improvements were made to the existing theatres a year or two ago.

asked the Minister of Health why the proportion of hospital capital expenditure on out-patient and casualty departments decreased during 1960–61 compared with the average capital expenditure of the years 1958 to 1961.

There is no significance in minor fluctuations in this percentage, which excludes departments in new hospitals.

All the same, would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that many out-patient departments and casualty departments are out of date and inconvenient, and ought there not to be faster growth and improvement of these departments and some others?

Yes, Sir; I agree that the growth in out-patient work has been greater than that in hospital work at large, and there has been a great volume of expenditure on it since the appointed day, but it is in the new hospitals that some of the biggest expenditure on new out-patients departments is taking place.

In that case, could not the right hon. Gentleman alter his statistics so that the figures are more clearly shown?

I think the hon. Member is right, and I am looking at the question of the table in my Annual Report.

asked the Minister of Health, why he will not advise hospital authorities that they may purchase drugs from firms which have made application under Section 41 of the Patents Act, 1949, for a compulsory licence to manufacture these drugs.

Because there is no licence unless the application is granted.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that Section 41 of the Patents Act was specifically meant to prevent monopoly? Is he also aware that his circular to hospitals on this subject in June led to considerable confusion? Is he not taking unto himself rights of decision in this case which should, rightly and properly, belong to the court?

Exactly the opposite. I am declining to do so.

Will the right hon. Gentleman think again about this? Is he aware that Section 41 of the Act, which, as my hon. Friend the Member for Willesden, West (Mr. Pavitt) has said, was specifically put in to protect the public interest, is being circumvented by patent holders through inordinate delays in hearing applications for compulsory licences? In these circumstances, would he not be perfectly justified in allowing hospital authorities to buy the drug the moment an application has been accepted by the Patents Court and published?

Certainly not. If I did that I should be doing just what the hon. Member for Willesden, West (Mr. Pavitt) deplored—taking the decision out of the hands of the proper authority.

asked the Minister of Health what reply he has sent to the letter sent to him by the Blackburn branch of the Confederation of Health Service Employees forwarding a petition signed by nearly 200 nurses employed in Blackburn hospitals on the subject of nurses' pay.

I am sending the hon. Member a copy.

As the Government themselves now admit that their incomes policy has been very unfair to people like nurses, will the Minister give the House a firm assurance that the award of the Industrial Court, when it is announced, will be honoured by the Government both immediately and in full?

That was given by my hon. Friend the then Financial Secretary in a debate earlier this Session.

asked the Minister of Health what progress has now been made in the negotiations in the Whitley Council regarding the nurses' salary claim; and if he will make a statement.

The claim has been referred to arbitration. I understand the hearing is on 20th August.

When is the Report about this very important matter likely to be made, especially in view of the suspicion which still exists in the nursing profession?

I understand that the awards are usually issued shortly after the hearing.

In view of the public interest in this matter, will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the Government will accept the decision of the arbitration court?

I do not think that the hon. Member for Greenwich (Mr. Marsh) was in the House when I pointed out earlier that that undertaking had been given by the Government in debate earlier this Session.

asked the Minister of Health what is the average waiting time for people in need of operations at hospitals in Leicester; whether he is aware that in some instances the time is as long as six years, due to the shortage of nurses; and what steps he is taking to remedy the position.

I know of no such instances. Average waiting time for non-urgent cases last March varied between 4 and 18 months according to the operation. Additional surgical beds and theatres are to be provided at both the General Hospital and the Royal Infirmary.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that a petition has been presented in which the facts I have given today are referred to? If it is the case that people have had to wait for six years for operations, he will, I think, agree that this is shameful. How does he intend to improve the position even from the 18 months he is talking about?

I think there must be some slight misunderstanding. Two cases are known to have been on the waiting list for over six years, but in one case the operation was deferred for medical reasons while in the other it was delayed to suit the patient's own convenience. The waiting list for general surgery has been reduced from 3,183 at the end of 1961 to 2,592 at the end of last March. That is a reduction of nearly 20 per cent.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will arrange to visit the George Eliot, the Manor and Bramcote hospitals in Nuneaton.

I will bear this suggestion in mind.

Does the right hon. Gentleman remember that I asked the Prime Minister not long ago to put the Minister of Health in the Cabinet? I have been successful, and I heartily congratulate the right hon. Gentleman. Perhaps he will now follow my suggestion and bring forward his visit to these hospitals.

asked the Minister of Health, in view of the small amounts of money annually devoted to medical research by regional hospital boards, what plans he has for stimulating such local research.

The initiative here is with the boards.

Surely the initiative could rest with the right hon. Gentleman if Exchequer funds were available. How can the right hon. Gentleman justify the fact that Manchester will spend £100,000 on local research while the East Anglia Regional Board will spend only £1,000? Surely Manchester's needs are not one hundred times as great as those of East Anglia.

The central responsibility for allocating funds for medical research lies with the Medical Research Council. These are projects which the regional boards themselves have put forward and which they want to do within their own systems and resources. The amount made available by the Exchequer for these purposes is increasing.

asked the Minister of Health if he will amend the regulations so as to enable executive councils to exercise, in respect of hospital prescriptions dispensed by retail chemists, powers similar to those applying to prescriptions issued by general practitioners.

I have no power to do so.

As it appears that this distinction was originally accidental, does not the Minister think that there is a good case for taking this power?

The distinction is embodied in the structure of the National Health Service Act, and I am not aware that this gap, if it is one, is causing the problem, but if the right hon. Gentleman has a specific case about which he is anxious, I will gladly look at it.

Is the Minister aware that I have written to him about a specific case, out of which this question arose?

In that case, I will see that the right hon. Gentleman gets a reply.

May I ask my right hon. Friend if there is any reason for thinking that there is any difference in the skill and care shown in the dispensing of prescriptions written by hospital doctors in comparison with those of general practitioners?

None whatsoever. That is why I see no reason for amending legislation.

asked the Minister of Health what was the total number of hospital beds available in Coventry in August, 1939; and what is the number available today.

1,108 and 811, with a further 324 beds outside the city which serve Coventry.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that during this period, from 1939 to the present day, there have been an additional 100,000 people moving into the city? Could he provide some temporary accommodation to save the relatives having to go so far in order to visit their kith and kin in hospital, and save them these long journeys?

As my hon. Friend knows, the temporary replacement for the war-destroyed (hospital accommodation was, and indeed had to be, outside the city. The object now is to build a great new hospital inside the city, and I hope that early next year building will start on a new hospital with nearly 800 beds.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the demand and need for a diabetic clinic in Coventry; and what action he proposes to take with regard to this matter.

I am advised that adequate facilities for the treatment of diabetics are available in Coventry.

asked the Minister of Health what decision has been taken by the Shrewsbury Hospital Management Committee regarding the selling of land for the purposes of establishing a private nursing home; and if he will make a statement.

I understand that they have referred the matter to the regional hospital board.

Is the Minister aware that I am concerned because on two occasions he has misled me and the House? In a debate on the hospital service, he said that I was inaccurate in my statement, and in a Question which I immediately put down he said that no proposal had been presented to him. Is he aware that this Committee decided on 25th May to sell hospital land for the purpose of establishing a private hospital to compete against the Health Service hospital, and now that the Minister has had leisure to repent, in his own words, will he finally apologise to the House and relent?

The hon. Member is still misinformed. No such decision has been taken by the hospital management committee, and both my statements to him, as well as this one. were accurate.

If no such decision has been taken by the hospital management committee, is the copy of the minutes which I have in my hand a complete fabrication? Will the Minister stop accusing other people of telling lies when hon. Members are trying to tell him all the time that they have information in their hands? Will he now make further inquiries and make a further statement correcting the matter?

I have inquired into this, and my information is that no such decision has been taken. Indeed, the decision could not be taken by the hospital management committee because I am the only person who can decide to sell hospital land.

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Motion for the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Health why the Fazakerley Hospital project, originally approved by his Department as due to begin in 1961–62, will not now begin until after 1965.

It was at no time approved for commencement in 1961–62. I expect building to start in 1964–65.

Is the Minister aware that the local authorities were given the impression by his Department that it was due to start in 1961–62, and that in all the voluminous correspondence which I have had with his Department about this no reference was made by his Department to that decision? Is this what the right hon. Gentleman means by speeding up the hospital programme?

As there was no such decision, it would have been difficult to make reference to it in correspondence with the right hon. Gentleman. As he knows, this scheme has been considerably expanded, and the scheme which will now be started, and for which the plans are now in hand, will be a considerably more effective scheme than the one orginally envisaged.

asked the Minister of Health how many hospital boards are now using radiographers from private contract firms.

Fifty-six.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that this steady increase in the number of hospitals using the services of radiographers employed by private contract firms is not something which he should encourage? Does not this practice cost the Ministry of Health twice or more than twice what the cost would be if the radiographers were employed by the National Health Service direct? Is not this practice a step in the wrong direction which will result in heavier costs to the Ministry than efforts to train and employ radiographers directly?

Many of these hospitals employ outside radiography only occasionally and many have not done so for some time. It could be a perfectly reasonable and economic procedure occasionally to resort to outside assistance

Would the right hon. Gentleman be surprised to learn that I know of a radiographer who was employed by a hospital and who replied to an advertisement by a contract firm, was employed by that firm and sent back to the job which she had just left, but at nearly twice the salary? Should not the Minister be inquiring into that sort of thing?

The number of radiographers in posts in the National Health Service is steadily increasing.

asked the Minister of Health why a visiting consultant who rents a consulting room in the vicinity of a hospital for one day each week, but is giving three days' service, is not allowed a mileage allowance on the days when he has no consulting room.

Where a doctor is dissatisfied with the way the conditions for mileage allowance are applied to him, the regional appeal machinery is available.

Is it not nonsense that there should be differential treatment as between one consultant and another in this respect? If a regional board turns down a claim for mileage on the plea that the consulting room has a letter box, has not this reached the height of nonsense?

The regional appeal machinery can deal with it if that is the case.

asked the Minister of Health what was the average age at death from silicosis and silico-tuberculosis in pottery workers in North Staffordshire in the years 1932, 1942, and 1952, and at the latest available year.

Sixty-three in 1952, 64 in 1960, including deaths assigned to pneumoconiosis unspecified, and excluding deaths of persons over 75. I regret that figures are not available for earlier years.

But, assuming—I think it is a correct assumption—that in the earlier years the figures ware very much lower, is it not fair to deduce that there has been a very steady improvement in this matter and that we owe it to the improvement in treatment by antibiotics and the drugs used against tuberculosis?

Yes, Sir; I am advised that there has been some improvement, especially among younger workers. Unhappily, the disease is prevalent in the pottery industry, but I am advised that working conditions in the industry today are such that they should not give rise to these diseases in the future.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has noted that the decennial report of occupational mortality by the Registrar General for the period 1949–53 shows that mortality from lung cancer in coal miners is appreciably lower than in men of the same age groups not associated with coal mining; and what are the medical reasons for this.

Yes, Sir. I am advised that the medical reasons are not established.

In view of the very exciting nature of this finding—namely, that coal miners are less prone, apparently, to sustained cancer of the lung than men of similar age groups in other industries—is it not desirable that the facts should now be completely established and the cause found by means of research? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in north Staffordshire we are now able, as the result of the present founding of a medical institute, to initiate such work? Will he and his right hon. Friend give us whatever assistance we need, particularly at the end of the search, with a statistical evaluation through the efforts of the Medical Research Council?

I am advised that certain studies are proceeding into the question now in South Wales. I am sure that the institute to which the hon. Gentleman refers will be able to make a very valuable contribution to the maintenance of high medical standards in north Staffordshire. On the larger question of research into the relationship between pneumoconiosis and lung cancer, the hon. Gentleman has written to my right hon. Friend, and I shall be arranging for a reply to be sent to him shortly.

asked the Minister of Health when a decision may now be expected on the supply of a small Ministry car to Mr. Anthony Grant of 15 Fairfield, Herstmonceux, Sussex, first raised in a letter to him from the hon. Member for Rye of 14th June, 1961.

A car will be supplied.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the great satisfaction that this decision will give my constituent, who is 60 per cent. disabled and is paralysed? Can he say why it has taken so long to reach a conclusion?

The supply of motor cars to severely disabled war pensioners was announced in the House by my right hon. and learned Friend the former Minister of Health in April, 1960, when he indicated that it would take up to two years to review all cases. Mr. Grant's case has been one of a number of marginal cases, and I am glad that we have now been able to make a decision. Clearly, if we had not dealt with the many straightforward cases first it might have taken longer to complete the delivery of these vehicles.

asked the Minister of Health what decision he has reached about the allocation of a disabled person's car to Mr. A. Ruddy, of Great Staughton, a 100 per cent. disabled war pensioner, whose need for a small car was brought to his attention over a year ago.

A car will be provided.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this man is a severely disabled war pensioner who has waited for two years for this car, and could he say how soon he may expect to get it?

I think I have explained, in answer to a question from my hon. Friend the Member for Rye (Mr. Godman Irvine), the reasons for the length of this delay, but my right hon. and learned Friend may be assured that delivery will be made as soon as practicable, although I cannot say precisely when.

Is the Minister aware that this is the second case of this kind which has been referred to at Question Time? Is he aware that I myself brought one to the Minister's notice not very long ago, in which there was a similar delay—considerably more than a year? Does he not think there is a case for speeding up the procedure generally in his Department?

There is a case, and my right hon. Friend is speeding it up.

asked the Minister of Health what action he proposes to take to implement the report of the Scott Sub-Committee on the Training of Staff of Training Centres for the Mentally Subnormal.

I would refer the hon. Member to my reply of 4th July to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough, East (Mr. Bottomley).

Is the Minister aware that this Report, apart from the somewhat discouraging preface, has been very well received? Since it suggests that we need more than 5,000 of these teachers, and we have at the moment fewer than 2,000, many of whom are untrained, will he go ahead with the setting up of a central training council, which is the essential first step to progress?

No, Sir. As I said in my answer to the hon. Gentleman's right hon. Friend, I really must first have the views of those concerned with this, and the matter must be maturely considered.

asked the Minister of Health whether his attention has been drawn to the hazard to dental health resulting from iced lollies containing high concentrations of citric or tartaric acid; and what action be proposes to take in order to mitigate the risk to children's teeth.

My right hon. Friend is advised that iced lollies are not more dangerous to children's teeth than many other kinds of sweet.

While thanking my hon. Friend for his reply, may I ask whether he is aware that it was to the high content of tartaric or citric acid in iced lollies rather than the iced lollies in general that I was referring in my Question? Further, is he aware that the dental authorities have drawn attention to the hazard of high concentrations of these acids? Will he, therefore, consider what action he should advise his right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to take?

I understand that it is quite true that acids can decalcify the teeth, and, if combined with sugar, can hasten decay. A good deal is being done by local health and education authorities to encourage good habits of oral hygiene among children, and the problem caused by acids in lollies and soft drinks is being examined now by my Department and by the major ice cream manufacturers' research laboratories.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that the hydrogen iron concentration in Coca-Cola is much higher than in iced lollies, and that there we have phosphoric acid plus sugar and the greatest danger comes from that source?

We cannot go round all the acids and all the sweets.

asked the Minister of Health how many accidents in the home and in places of employment, respectively, in the form of burns and scalds were notified to the health authorities in Nottingham during the past year from any convenient date.

No such notifications are made, but about half the burns and scalds treated in hospitals in Nottingham last year were due to accidents in the home.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that the figures show that the number of such accidents was far greater during the past year in Nottingham than in Derby? If that is so, why is Derby being given preference over Nottingham in the establishment of a burns unit? If my hon. Friend will not alter his decision in this respect, will he at least reconsider the recently expressed intention not to establish a burns unit in Nottingham for another ten years?

Higher priority is being given by the regional board to a burns unit at Darby because of the number of serious accidents in heavy industries there and because of the shortage of acute beds in Derby. Nottingham is better off for acute beds than any other area in the Sheffield Region, except for Sheffield itself, where many acute beds serve a wider area. I will gladly consider any evidence my hon. and gallant Friend can provide on the comparative urgency of the need for a burns unit in Nottingham rather than in Derby.

asked the Minister of Health if, in view of the twelve months' experience following the introduction of the 2s. prescription charge, which indicates a fall of nearly 14 per cent. in the number of prescriptions dispensed, he will now reduce the charge.

No, Sir.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that unless there was serious over-prescribing by doctors up to March, 1961, this fall, which is about seven times what he estimated, must mean one of two things—either that many patients are not getting the drugs they need or that there is greatly increased resort to self-medication, both of which are to be deplored? Will he think again about this matter and do something?

No, I do not agree. There is big fluctuation, in any case, from year to year in the number of prescriptions. If the three previous years are taken into account, the drop is only 6 per cent., which is fully accounted for by the elimination of prescriptions costing under 2s. and the very proper increase in prescriptions for longer periods.

When we raised this matter earlier in the year, the right hon. Gentleman said that he wanted twelve months' experience. Does he now want three years' experience? When that has expired, will he ask for seven years' experience?

No. But we must watch experience as we go along. There is no evidence that these charges are causing hardship or that anyone is not getting the medicine he should be getting.

Does the right hon. Gentleman make any inquiries about how many prescriptions are issued but not dispensed? Is there any record kept as between prescription and actual dispensation? I am informed that often, when patients see how much their prescriptions will cost, they do not go to the chemists and thus do not obtain the necessary medicine.

I would be glad to look at any specific case to which the hon. Lady can refer me. I do not, off hand, see how one could obtain figures for prescriptions made out but not taken to the chemists, but I will see if there is any way in which we can get a line on that.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whom he has asked for evidence and what kind of evidence he has sought?

I have repeatedly said, in this House and elsewhere, that I will examine instances brought to my attention, from whatever quarter, where it appears, on the face of it, that these charges have prevented people from obtaining necessary medicines. I repeat that.

asked the Minister of Health what preparations he is making to ensure that, if Great Britain joins the Common Market, Continental drags which would not pass British pharmaceutical tests will not be put on sale in the United Kingdom.

None are necessary.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if we join the Common Market our chemists' shops may be flooded with cheap drugs in attractive packages? We have recently had a regrettable experience with the drug thalidomide. Will he make certain that not only do we prevent the lowering of standards but that we increase our present standards?

The law and requirements apply equally to home and imported manufactured drugs.

asked the Minister of Health what estimate he has made of the number of malformed babies who have been born as a result of the use of the drug Distaval.

I am advised that there is no sound basis for any estimate at present.

Regardless of what the figures might be, surely the State has moral responsibility for these malformed children and should make some provision for new limbs and financial assistance, where necessary, in order to help them? This is man's mistake in society, and the State has the moral responsibility.

The appliances required by children born deformed are constantly being improved and every measure is being taken to see that they will be available to these children. There is a great deal that can be done in this way, and it should be widely known how much can be done.

asked the Minister of Health how many new drugs have been approved for the National Health Service in the last 10 years; and how many have subsequently had to be withdrawn as unsatisfactory.

There is no such procedure.

Whatever may be said of the past, surely now is the time to look into the hole question of the introduction of new drugs into the National Health Service or elsewhere. Will my right hon. Friend give me an assurance that he will, in conjunction with the Home Secretary, look thoroughly into the question of the provision of new drugs? I appreciate, however, that the pharmaceutical industry is doing a good job, that this is the first disaster that has occurred for some years and that the industry must put a good deal of money back into research.

I have already said that I am obtaining advice from my Standing Medical Advisory Committee on the testing of drugs generally.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we are grateful to him for accepting a measure of responsibility in this way? How long does he expect the Committee to take, and will the report be published?

There is another question on that matter.

Is it not time that sterner measures were taken to see that a drug is not put on the market until it has been efficiently tested? Is it not time that the Home Office and the Ministry of Health went into the whole question of testing drugs before they go on the market and before a disaster occurs? It is not good enough to have disasters first and then withdraw a drug after the damage has been done.

That is one of the questions at issue. Efficient testing of a new drug is a very difficult and complex concept.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he is taking in conjunction with the manufacturers of artificial limbs and by way of research to ensure that all possible help is given to minimise the handicaps which will be suffered by the children born deformed as a result of the use by their mothers of the drug thalidomide.

The Artificial Limb Research Centre is constantly experimenting and collecting information on new protheses for these and other types of limbless.

Will the Minister bear in mind that, as his hon. and gallant Friend the Member for The Hartlepools (Commander Kerans) said just now, there is very great concern about the future of these 500-odd deformed children who were born as the result of the use by their mothers of thalidomide? Is he aware that we are most anxious to ensure that all possible steps should be taken to alleviate the hardship which will inevitably be suffered?

Apart from the question of the figures, for which, as I have already indicated, there is no adequate basis, I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman

Is the Minister aware of the encouraging results of experiments carried out in two universities in Western Germany, in orthopaedic clinics there? Will he also deal with a particular aspect of this problem—that it is not only a question of fitting these appliances, but also of how the children are to be taken to the clinics where the appliances now are, as the children are scattered all over the country?

On the last point, steps have been taken to ensure that the importance of early contact with the limb-fitting clinic is well understood. I am aware of the experiments to which the hon. Gentleman has referred, and I would re-emphasise that there has been a tremendous advance in this subject and there is a great deal that can be done.

asked the Minister of Health if he will introduce legislation to enable compensation to be paid out of public funds where appropriate or to require drug manufacturers to pay compensation when otherwise appropriate to the mothers of babies born deformed as the result of use of certain drugs.

No, Sir.

Even though those tragic cases may be due in part to the laissez faire policy of the Minister— [HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—certainly, they are—has he any reason to suppose that the manufacturers or indeed the distributors of the drug would wish to profiteer out of deformity?

I hope that the hon. Member will repent at leisure over the terms of his supplementary question. It would not be right to extend the scope of the general law on compensation to cover cases of this kind, however deeply we may feel about them.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he has taken to ascertain from the United States of America and other countries what is the result of their investigations in respect of the effects on health of thalidomide and other dangerous drugs, and the steps being taken by them to check the use of dangerous drugs in the future and to deal with affected cases; and if he will make a statement on his proposals to benefit from such information.

I would refer the han. Member to my reply to his and other Questions on 23rd July.

Could the Minister say whether his attention has been drawn to the fact that Dr. Frances Kelsey in the United States actually prevented the use of drugs of a similar nature to the one which caused all the trouble here? What possible excuse can there be, after such a prevention has taken place, for us not to know that that prevention took place? What kind of arrangements has the Minister with various countries concerned so that he should be made aware of the fact that a drug, after having been tested by a responsible person, is found to be wanting?

I have no doubt that the side effects of this drug, as soon as they were known in any country, were known here, and steps have been taken accordingly.

Is not the Minister aware that that is a very unsatisfactory answer? Does not the Minister realise that in fact the sale of this drug was stopped because of the fact that it was discovered by Dr. Frances Kelsey to have this serious nature? Would he investigate and see what he can do to have the information made available whenever anything of that nature occurs?

The hon. Member is misinformed. I have told the House, and I repeat, that as soon as these side effects were known anywhere, they were known here and appropriate steps were taken here.

Is it not the case that as long ago as 1960 it was observed that one of the toxic side-effects of thalidomide was the production of polyneuritis, and that reports were made to that effect in the medical journals? Is it not the case that action was not taken until November, 1961, to prohibit the sale of the drug?

Because the prohibition of the sale was due to the discovery of other side effects, and not those to which the hon. Member refers, which are not uncommon.

asked the Minister of Health what advice he has received from his standing Medical Advisory Committee on the question of the testing of new drugs generally; and if he will make a statement.

I cannot expect to receive this for some time.

Is not the matter urgent? Has not the Minister's attention been drawn to the comments of high medical authorities in universities all over the country, and also in private practice, who point out that certain new drugs are being administered, especially to pregnant women, which may have dangerous and toxic side-effects? Has his attention been further drawn to the suggestion that, pending the setting up of a statutory commission of the kind suggested, no further new drugs should be administered to pregnant women? Will the right hon. Gentleman make a statement on that?

This is a matter entirely within the discretion of medical practitioners, who will be exercising their responsibility in deciding what to pre-scribe in relation to the patient's condition.

Will the right hon. Gentleman now answer the supplementary question which he deferred a little earlier—whether this report is to be published when he receives it?

It is normal for the advice which I receive from my Standing Medical Advisory Committee to be published. Indeed, its proceedings are published. It will not be available for some time yet.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the shortage of dentists in West Bromwich; and what proposals he has to meet it.

Yes, Sir. The number of dentists qualifying and of treatments given in the general dental service continues to rise rapidly.

Is the Minister aware that, according to my information, the number of dental practitioners is ten for a population of 80,000? Is he aware that those in authority have already described it as truly appalling?

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the proportion of dentists to the population in West Bromwich is much lower than in most parts of the country. I have no power to direct dentists to particular areas, but the continuing and rapid increase both in the numbers of dentists and of treatment is bound to bring relief.

asked the Minister of Health what were the numbers of abnormal births in 1960, 1961, and 1962, respectively; and if he will make a statement.

This information is not available.

Is it not a grave dereliction of duty on the part of the Minister that he did not take the lead in taking note of the steep rise in the number of abnormal births observed not only in this country but abroad? In those circumstances, does it not indicate that there are many obscure factors which should be cleared up in connection with the thalidomide tragedy? Will not the right hon. Gentleman therefore agree to set up a committee of inquiry, as requested by myself and a number of my hon. Friends, in order to probe this matter further and not to draw the veil over it?

I have no reason to doubt that the medical profession is actively studying all the ramifications of this matter. But the hon. Member asked about the numbers of abnormal births in three years, and as there is not even a definition of what is meant by an abnormal birth—nor can there be—I cannot give him the figures in reply.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that a child born without arms or legs constitutes an abnormal birth? As these births have been observed widely all over the country, does it not seem now that some further inquiry should be made in order to try to ascertain the facts, as is done in the case of a railway accident when, if one or two people lose an arm or a leg, a statutory inquiry is held?

But the figures to answer this Question, even if they could be obtained, would not help on the problem which the hon. Gentleman has in mind.

asked the Minister of Health (1) whether he is satisfied with the results of his campaign to increase the present rate of infant vaccination against smallpox; and if he will make a statement;

asked the Minister of Health what progress is being made in the campaign for a high rate of infant vaccination against small pox; what consideration is being given to alternative methods of immunisation against smallpox which provide equal safety against the disease; and if he will make a statement.

On 18th July I asked local health authorities to make comprehensive plans to raise the level of vaccination and immunisation generally. I understand that research into alternative protection against smallpox continues, but that so far none giving equal immunity has been found.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the pleasure which I feel, first, that my constituency is top of the league, so to speak, in this respect, and, secondly, that on this occasion he and I find ourselves in the same lobby, so to speak? Does he not consider it unreasonable that the B.M.A. apparently criticises his vaccination policy although the orthodox medical profession for a long time has been resistant to variations and suggested variations in this ancient method of vaccination which is still in vogue and has been practically unaltered since Jenner's day? Would he make this point in his dealings about it with the medical profession?

I have no doubt that investigation is being pushed ahead on this matter, but no practical application has yet been arrived at.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that because of recent statements about the vaccination of infants there is a great deal of confusion on this subject, especially among parents? Can he do something to clarify the matter so that we may know where we are?

The hon. Gentleman will be reassured to know that in its handbook for this year the B.M.A. recommends routine vaccination in infancy and that this policy was re-endorsed by my Standing Medical Advisory Committee as recently as last year.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether it is still true that more people die from vaccination than from smallpox? If that is true, What inference does his Department draw from the fact?

It is not true in those terms.

Has anything been done to deal with the statements made by a high medical authority and contrary to that given to the British Medical Association?

I hope that my answer to the hon. Gentleman will put that matter in its right perspective.

In what terms is it true that more infants die as a result of vaccination than smallpox?

If the hon. Gentleman will put down a Question on the figures, I will give them.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent dentists are refusing to take adults on their lists under the National Health Service.

Dentists do not have lists of patients under the National Health Service.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman know that there are people who, because they take their children to a dentist, consider themselves to be on that dentist's list? Is he not aware that, because of the revised conditions, some dentists are saying that they will treat the children, but not the parents, the parents being those who are most likely to want to have teeth out and have new dentures fitted, which is the heaviest cost to them?

It has always been the case, since the inception of the general dental service, that dentists were free to accept or not to accept a particular patient for a particular treatment, and vice versa, but I will look at any case of difficulty which has come to the hon. Lady's attention.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he has taken to ensure that piece-rate payment for dental treatment does not result in poor quality work.

My regional dental officers examine a sample of patients treated.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some people feel that the high salaries which some dentists receive are achieved at the expense of quality of work? Is he quite satisfied— and can he assure the public—that that is not so and that his machinery for checking that that is not the case is adequate?

This is a matter which is very much in the minds of my dental officers, whose duty it is to keep surveillance over the standard of dentistry in the general dental service.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will take steps to provide resettlement grants to cover travelling, removal, out-of-pocket and family expenses for unemployed persons moving to new employment.

Yes, Sir. This has already been done. Unemployed persons who live in areas of relatively high unemployment are assisted under the Resettlement Transfer Scheme to take up work away from home. My right hon. Friend is arranging to extend these facilities to unemployed persons living elsewhere who cannot get suitable work in their home areas.

May I congratulate my hon. Friend on emerging from his chrysalis of silence and also thank him for that reply? May I ask him whether he is aware that under the Common Market 50 per cent. of money spent on this sort of thing is recoverable from the Commission? Does not he think that it is time we had a full-blooded policy to encourage the mobility of labour now?

I hope my hon. Friend will accept this and realise that At is a necessary and welcome step in the right direction.

May I also congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his new appointment and ask him especially whether he will look at the publicity given to this grant, because the use made of the existing Ministry grant is very small and this could play a bigger part in the mobility of labour?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he said. I should point out that posters will be displayed in every employment exchange and the scheme will be brought to the notice of unemployed persons who are willing to consider jobs in other areas.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the number of adult men and women registered as unemployed at the Clydebank and Kirkintilloch employment exchanges; and what steps he is taking to place these people in employment within reasonable travelling dis-ance of their homes.

On 16th July, 1962, 1,007 men and 137 women were registered as unemployed at Clydebank and 194 men and 100 women at Kirkintilloch. Our local officers are doing all they can to find suitable employment for these workers.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in Clydebank the Singer Sewing Machine Co. is in process of contracting its production in this factory, and, further, that the future of John Brown's shipyard is not too bright? In the burgh of Kirkintilloch, with its overspill agreement with Glasgow, insufficient industry is coming in and in the coming years the placing of young people will be extremely difficult. Will the hon. Gentleman impress on his right hon. and hon. Friends that the impetus of placing more industry in Scotland and of creating more jobs there will have to be speeded up much more than has been the case in the past ten years?

The hon. Gentleman and I happen to have a close personal interest in the areas to which he referred, which might have been closer still but for his intervention at one stage. I fully accept what the hon. Gentleman says. I think that I should point out that the facilities of the Local Employment Act are available to both these places which are in the Glasgow travel-to-work area. I know that it is not a popular thing with some people to know what jobs are in prospect, but it is fair to say that there are about 4,600 jobs in prospect in this area. I do not wish to put it higher than that, but they are in prospect.

The problem will arise to a greater extent in Twechr, Condoratt and Cumbernauld. Also, in these areas men over 45 cannot get jobs, not even in Glasgow or anywhere else. Will the hon. Gentleman see to it that some industries are moved into this area to enable these men to get suitable employment?

The hon. Gentleman and I are perhaps among the few who are able to refer to some of these places by their correct names. I fully appreciate what he says. We have to realise that there is the new town of Cumbernauld which the hon. Gentleman knows very well. New industries have been put there and considerable development is going on, but that does not detract from the difficulty in this area of which I and my right hon. Friends are fully aware.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us the difference between "jobs in prospect" and "jobs in the pipeline "?

I have often, from a different position, listened to the words "jobs in the pipeline". I realised that the House was getting rather tired of this, so I thought that it might like a new name, and "jobs in prospect" seemed very fair.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps are being taken to deal with the increase in unemployment of young people in Ashington, Northumberland, which is 40 per cent. greater than in May, 1961; and whether he will make a statement.

At mid-July 28 boys and 33 girls were registered as unemployed at Ashington. Our local officers are making every effort to place them in suitable employment.

Is not the Minister concerned about the disturbing increase during the past year in the number of unemployed youths? We recognise the important service rendered by the local officers, but is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Industrial Training Council recently passed a resolution asking that note should be taken of this growing problem and suggesting that it could be resolved only by bringing new industries to this area?

I accept what the hon. Gentleman says, but I think that it is fair to get the problem in its proper perspective. On 11th July there were 63 vacancies for boys and 4 for girls in the area. Most of the vacancies are in coal (mining, where prospects for boys remain good.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the concern felt in Newcastle-upon-Tyne over the difficulties of employment for school leavers; and what steps his Department is taking to remedy this situation.

At mid-July all but 62 of the 1,209 Easter school leavers in the area had entered employment. The Youth Employment Service is doing all it can to help the young people to find suitable employment.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask whether he is fully aware that the new school leavers will now be on the labour market and that in the debate last week his right hon. Friend said that he was having talks with the unions to provide apprenticeships for the people about whom we are concerned here? Can my hon. Friend please say whether anything further has happened about this?

Yes, Sir. As was announced in the debate on employment prospects in the North-East, my right hon. Friend has had some discussions on these matters which are being further considered. We welcome very much anything that is done to increase the number of apprenticeships in this area. It is good to know that there has been some success there. In the first six months of this year 43·2 per cent. of boys entering employment in the Newcastle area obtained apprenticeships compared with 34 per cent. in the country as a whole, so the North-East is doing pretty well.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the last two Questions, and some others which will probably not be reached, represent a considerable anxiety about school leavers this summer? Is he aware that this represents about 30 par cent. more school leavers than a year ago? As the economy as a whole is more sluggish, and manufacturers are expressing pessimism about their prospects, what are the Government, and the hon. Gentleman's Department in particular, doing to provide bigger scope of opportunity for this large number of school leavers?

I welcome what the hon. Gentleman says, because it stresses the great importance of increasing the number of apprenticeships which can be offered by industry, particularly this year, when we have what is known as the bulge in school leavers upon us.

asked the Minister of Labour what, in each quarter of 1961 and in the first two quarters of 1962, was the percentage increase over the preceding quarter of the weekly wage rates of all workers.

The percentage increases are 1·4, 0·9, 0·3, 0·7, 11 and 1·2, respectively.

Do not those figures effectively dispose of the myth that the pay pause was rendered necessary by the abnormal increases in wage rates during the early part of last year?

I do not think so. As has been explained, more than half of the increases in the period from July to April were due to increases from commitments entered into before 25th July. Furthermore, I know that the hon. Gentleman will be pleased to know that the Index of Weekly Wage Rates rose by 23 per cent. in the six months preceding the pause, and, despite these extra commitments, by 2·2 per cent. in the nine months of the pause. It is therefore clear that it has not had a drastic impression on our costs and that we are therefore more competitive.