asked the Minister of Labour what progress has been made with the experimental training course for apprentices; how many have been enrolled; from what areas they cane; and whether he will make a statement.

I take it that the hon. Member Ls referring to the course for apprentices not sponsored by their employers, which I am establishing at Tursdale, County Durham. I hope training may start in about three months' time.

What does the Minister anticipate will emerge from a training course based on a period of one year's training? Is he aware that unless the scheme is directly linked with industry and these young people are assured of employment at the completion of their course, they are going to be exceedingly frustrated and the whole experiment will fail?

The hon. Gentleman is trying to prophesy that these young people will not get employment. My officers are certainly going to spare no efforts Ito ensure that they do get employment, and I think that the hon. Gentleman's pessimism will prove not to be justified.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the average percentage of unemployment in the Greenock-Poet Glasgow area during the years 1959, 1960, 1961, and during 1962 up to the latest available date.

8·0 per cent. for 1959, 8·2 per cent. for 1960, 7·2 per cent. for 1961, and 7·5 per cent, for January to November this year.

Do not these figures establish beyond any shadow of doubt that the Government have failed, and are failing, to solve the critical unemployment situation in this vital industrial centre? Cannot the Minister ginger up his colleagues at the Board of Trade and elsewhere to do something to fulfil their General Election promises about full employment?

I cannot accept for one moment what the hon. Gentleman says, nor can I agree with him that my right hon. Friends need gingering up in any way. What they have already done will materially improve the employment situation, and they have many other plans which will improve it still further.

The same old story!

asked the Minister of Labour what was the percentage of unemployment in the Greenock-Port Glasgow area at the latest available date; and what steps he proposes to take to improve employment prospects in the area.

8·6 per cent. at 12th November. The Government are continuing to do all they can to encourage industrial expansion in the area where the full facilities of the Local Employment Act are available.

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that that sounds more like a threat than a promise, in view of our experience? Will he reconsider the industrial retraining of many of these men, who do not look as though they will ever get back into their own trades? Would he not be wise to accept his own responsibility in the matter and urge the President of the Board of Trade to do something for the area?

I do not think that the President of the Board of Trade needs any encouraging to do something in the area. The hon. Member is being a little less than just in view of what has been done and the jobs already provided of which he knows. My right hon. Friend is doing everything he can to improve and extend facilities for retraining.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say how many retraining places are readily available at the Hillington centre and what expansion is expected? Is not the number of places very small and quite inadequate to meet the needs?

Of course it is a small amount—

Can the hon. Gentleman say how many?

Not without notice, although I should be delighted to let the hon. Member know. It is not as many as we would wish and we want to have more, but it is evidence of a thoroughly good start. I should have thought that it would have been accepted as such.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps are being taken to find employment for the growing number of young people in Ashington and Morpeth areas; and whether he will make a statement.

The total number of young people unemployed has fallen by a third in the past two months. Out of 503 summer school leavers, 17 remained unemployed on 10th December. Although school leavers in the area in 1962 are likely to be much the same in number as last year, I am glad to say that so far 50 per cent more young people have obtained apprenticeships than in 1961. The Youth Employment Service will continue to make every effort to find suitable jobs for all young people.

Will my hon. Friend undertake to look carefully at the ques- tion of the provision of finance for youth clubs run by voluntary bodies, for this is a means by which immediate help can be given in the way of providing employment or at least something worth while for young people to do?

I have noted what my hon. Friend has said, but I am sure he will appreciate that this is largely a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Education.

asked the Minister of Labour what investigations his Department has made into fatigue as a cause of accidents amongst juvenile factory workers; and with what results.

There is no evidence to show that the hours worked by young people in this country cause excessive fatigue such as would increase the risk of accidents. The most effective way of reducing such accidents is better training and supervision.

Has the right hon. Gentleman any figures of the number of juvenile accidents in the last hour of work compared with the earlier hours of work? Has he operational research statisticians studying the problem? Surely he will remember that during the war operational research techniques brought about very considerable reductions in aircraft accidents and very much improved the training of aircrew. Could not the same sort of thing be applied here?

The hon. Gentleman has expressed interest in this matter before. It is a point that I have looked into very carefully. There is a great deal of medical research going on into this matter throughout the world, and the Medical Research Council has gone into the general problem of industrial fatigue. However, as I said in my Answer to the hon. Gentleman, I do not think that his fears can be substantiated by any evidence that has been made available to me as a result of this research.

Has the right hon. Gentleman consulted the T.U.C. about this? Its members have strong feelings about it.

I have consulted the medical authorities about it.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider this seriously? Industrial fatigue very often leads to frustration and to inefficiency in production, and these two factors together constitute one of the main causes of bad relationships in many plants.

I have made inquiries into this, but I have received no evidence that accidents are primarily caused in the way suggested by the two hon. Members opposite. The experience we have suggests that accidents are due chiefly to lack of proper training and supervision and lack of experience.

asked the Minister of Labour how many men are unemployed and how many are on short time in the construction industries and in other industries, respectively, in the Bishop Auckland travel-to-work area.

At 12th November, 1962, 2,329 men were unemployed of whom 580 were previously employed in the construction industry. According to reports received at our local offices, there were 219 males on short time in the week ending 7th December. None of these were employed in the construction industry.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider making better transport arrangements to some areas in the North where there is more work? Has he heard that the new University of York building programme is held up to some extent by lack of operatives? Could not he arrange for fast, cheap transport from south-west Durham to York?

I have certainly noted that important and valuable point.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will publish the prices of items of food used in the compilation of the monthly cost-of-living index.

No, Sir. The method of calculation of the Index of Retail Prices does not involve the calculation of average prices. I could not justify the very considerable amount of extra staff time involved in calculating average prices of individual items of food involving as it would the calculation of averages of nearly 1,000 prices for each of nearly 100 items of food each month.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the same sources of food prices quoted by his Department would be of great value to economists and statisticians doing research work? For example, bodies like the Pig Industry Development Authority would need to find out the prices of meat in various parts of the country in order to assess the economics of marketing. Is it possible to give same help to these people?

Naturally I will consider any suggestion my hon. Friend cares to put, but the main basis of my Answer still holds good.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will state the unemployment rate in Glasgow at the mast recent convenient date.

4·9 per cent. at 12th November.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, translated into human terms, 4·9 per cent. represents 27,000 unemployed persons in the Glasgow district? Does he realise that this is the highest which the oldest inhabitant in Glasgow can recollect? Is he further aware that the President of the Board of Trade informed me last Thursday that it was expected this year that 1,400 new jobs would be available to offset this? Since these 1,400 expectations were raised, 1,400 hopes have been blasted by the closing of Lobnitz's shipyard, thus keeping the score equal. What is his right hon. Friend at the Board of Trade doing to help Glasgow and district in this appalling situation?

I realise what these percentage figures mean in human terms. We are doing all we can as a Government to stimulate industrial development in the area. The House knows the proposals put forward by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the efforts of my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade. Both are doing all they can to steer new industry to these areas and also to stimulate the economy generally.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman recognise how empty and flaccid his words are? Is he aware that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Minister for Science and the Minister of Transport are all visiting Glasgow this weekend about this very problem? Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to consult them on their return and learn what representations have been made to them? If he is still talking to them at all, will he try to concert his efforts with theirs in order to do something drastic to relieve the situation?

I keep in the closest touch with my right hon. Friends.

asked the Minister of Labour why the increased allowances which have been granted to trainees at Government training centres have been refused for disabled trainees at the Finchall Abbey Training Centre for the Disabled, Durham.

The increase in allowances to men in Government Training Centres was designed to encourage men becoming redundant in the coal mining and railway industries to take up a course of training instead of unskilled work. I am, however, considering whether there are other grounds for increasing the allowance at the residential centres.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask him whether he does not think it outrageous that these people should not have been considered in the first place? We are dealing here with disabled persons who cannot have the facilities enjoyed by fit people. Will he bring their allowances up to the same level as those given to others who enjoy ordinary training facilities?

As I have explained, the object of this exercise was primarily to help people who became redundant in coal mining and the railways to have training in other skills rather than leaving them to take unskilled jobs. However, I have noted the repercussions and, as I have indicated, I am considering what can be done in answer to the main point of the hon. Member's Question.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the trainees taken into Finchale Abbey will have jobs available in the areas they go to afterwards? Considerable difficulty is encountered by some in finding jobs even after training.

Of course, I am never satisfied on these matters, and, as the hon. Member has pointed out, there are grave difficulties in finding jobs. Certainly we shall do all we can to help.

asked the Minister of Labour how many men who became redundant due to the closure of Hassockrigg and Benhar Colliery are still unemployed.

Forty-seven redundant workers from Hassockrigg Colliery and 189 from Benhar are registered at neighbouring employment exchanges.

Is the hon. Member aware that these figures are serious, since they must be taken in conjunction with the number of men in the same area who have been unemployed for a long time? Is he further aware that there is no hope whatever in the near future, and none in the distant future if this Government continue in office, of these men finding jobs? What can he do to help?

I am aware that the position is serious. I am not aware, as the hon. Lady seems to suggest, that these people have no hope. They have considerable hope both from the B.M.C. factory development at Bathgate—

Oh.

Before the hon. Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Rankin) groans any more, I should also point out that two advance factories are being built in Shotts. All this is evidence of what the Government are determined to do and are doing.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the very high rate of unemployment in Bathgate and the West Lothian area where the B.M.C. factory is to be situated? Is he further aware that we on this side of the House who ask questions about our own constituencies are tired of being told that the B.M.C. factory will solve the problems of Midlothian, West Lothian and Lanarkshire?

I have no desire to tire the hon. Lady any further. I do not suggest that the development will solve the problems, but, in view of the number of jobs being provided through it, it is only fair to refer to it.

asked the Minister of Labour how many are unemployed in Newmains and Cleland, giving figures for men, women, boys and girls.

Separate figures for Newmains and Cleland are not available. They are part of the area of Wishaw Employment Exchange where on 12th November there were 944 men, 425 women, 64 boys, and 34 girls registered as unemployed.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in the area covered by the Wishaw Employment Exchange the rate of unemployment is close on 9 per cent.? What is he going to do, with other Ministers responsible, to help the people in that area? Is he aware that a considerable time ago the attention of his right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade was drawn to an excellent site for an industrial estate between Wishaw and Newmains which would help not only the Wishaw area but villages in South Lanarkshire? Will he do his best to influence the President of the Board of Trade to choose that site for industry?

I appreciate what the hon. Lady says, but it would be dangerous for me to attempt to influence my night hon. Friend as between one area and another. At the same time, I have noted what she has said and I have no doubt that it will also be noted by the President of the Board of Trade. I will ensure that it is.

asked the Minister of Labour how many days were lost per man, in the last 12 months for which figures are available, by workers in the coal mining, shipbuilding and engineering industries generally who engaged in strikes either official or unofficial.

For the 12 months ended 31st October, 1962, the figures were coal- mining 0·5 days shipbuilding—including marine engineering-1·8, and the engineering industries generally 1·06.

asked the Minister of Labour how many days were lost per man, in the last 12 months far which figures are available, by workers in the motor industry who engaged in strikes either official or unofficial.

For the 12 months ended 31st October, 1962, the figure was 1·73 days.

is it not the case that, although regrettable, these figures are relatively not high? Will not the right hon. Gentleman go into the basic causes of the strikes, such as they are, before yielding to the drummed-up agitation of his hon. Friends in favour of legislation to limit the right to strike?

The hon. Member knows perfectly well that I have paid a great deal of attention to the causes of the trouble in the motor industry in particular. I am glad to say that there is a small decline in the number of days lost through unofficial disputes this year compared with last year. I will continue to watch the situation very carefully. I do not think that there is much relevance in the other part of the hon. Member's supplementary question.

Can my right hon. Friend say what progress has been made in his talks with the employers and trade unions in this industry?

Since last February, there have been a number of unofficial strikes in the motor industry which have been very damaging to the industry as a whole and to those who work in it. However, no unofficial strike since last February has got anyone anywhere. The unions have not supported them and the employers have not given in. It has, therefore, been shown fairly conclusively, since last February, that unofficial strikes do neither side of industry the slightest good.

Is it not important that it should be made quite clear, for the benefit of some of the right hon. Gentleman's hon. Friends, that the strike performance of this country is much better than that of almost all other industrial Powers, despite the fact that their productivity is better than ours? On this issue of strikes in the motor car industry, is it not also important to try to find out why these strikes should be largely confined to one motor car company which appears to find trouble wherever it goes, although its competitors do not?

The hon. Member is quite right when he says that our record of industrial strikes is better than that of most other major industrial countries, although it is not as good as that of West Germany. But that does not mean that any of us should feel complacent. There is a tremendous amount which we have to do, but which can be done with good will on both sides of industry, to improve our existing record.

In view of the agitation by some of the right hon. Gentleman's hon. Friends, as is shown by the Order Paper, does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that great damage could be done by the simple allocation of blame for official strikes on the men when many of them arise through appallingly bad management at middle levels?

I think that this is not a subject for debate. I believe that there is a general desire in industry and in the House to work towards better industrial relations. I should like that spirit to be continued and to achieve results.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps he is taking to establish training centres for the purpose of retraining redundant miners and railway workers in Scotland.

I am opening two new training centres, one in Lanarkshire and the other in Fife. I am also providing additional classes at the training centre at Hillington, Glasgow.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider and support the claim of many of us that redundant coal miners who have spent their life in the coal mining industry should be entitled to full wages while they are being retrained for other occupations in other industries?

I do not think that the point arises out of this Question. Doubtless the hon. Member would like to put down a Question to the appropriate Minister; perhaps he will accept that as my answer.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps he is taking to find alternative employment for redundant railway and mineworkers especially those over the age of 45 years in the county of Dunbartonshire.

There will be some redundancies in adjacent areas outside the county boundary. Our officers will do their best to assist all workers who register for employment.

As a one-time resident of my constituency, would the hon. Member take steps and use his good offices to see that redundant miners who are 45 years of age and more are not barred from other occupations because they are that age merely because of the terms of certain superannuation schemes? As he knows the area very well, does he not agree that it is an area in which men who are 45 and over ought to be given an opportunity of alternative employment when their mines are closed and they have no work or hope of work?

The hon. Member has made an important point which will be widely accepted. The employment of older workers is a difficult matter and anything which anyone, inside or outside the House, can do to help would be most valuable.

asked the Minister of Labour how many unemployed were registered at the Cumnock Employment Exchange on 30th November; what was the percentage increase over 30th November, 1961; and what steps are being taken to reduce the number of unemployed in this district of Ayrshire.

As a result of the distressing accident at Barony Colliery a special count was taken on 3rd December. This showed that 1,579 workers were registered as unemployed, an increase of over 300 per cent. compared with 11th December, 1961.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary define what he means by "eventually"? Is he aware that the Coal Board has said that it cannot guarantee the opening of this mine for two years? What is to be done in the interval? While we are thankful for the small mercy of a small factory, may I ask whether the hon. Gentleman appreciates that a tremendous calamity has overtaken the district? Can we rely upon him to support constructive measures, such as a duty-free airport at Prestwick and the various measures which have been urged upon him by the Ayrshire County Council?

I fully accept that this is a very serious happening for the area. The hon. Member must not tempt me into going too far in defining other projects. Besides retaining about 200 adult workers in addition to juveniles, the Board has so far absorbed about 300 of the people locally.

asked the Minister of Labour What steps be is taking to offer comparable employment to men who are dismissed from the shipbuilding industry in order to ensure that a skilled labour force shall not be allowed to disintegrate.

asked the Minister of Labour what were the numbers of persons unemployed in the employment exchange areas of Stanley and Consett, County Durham, at the latest convenient date; what percentage of the total working population these figures represent; and how they compare with those of the same dates in 1960 and 1961.

As the reply takes the form of a table of figures I will with permission circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

While I would have appreciated the information desired at this moment, I think that I am in possession of information with regard to the alarming increase in unemployment. May I ask that when the hon. Gentleman does have the figures he will take remedial action rather than force men to migrate from this area to other areas in search of work?

I think I should make it clear that I said that I had the figures and would circulate them in the OFFICIAL REPORT. I note what the hon. Gentleman says. Perhaps I should tell him that in November, 1962, unemployment in Stanley was 934, or 4.8 per cent., and in Consett it was 1,047, or 5·1 per cent. I think the hon. Gentleman knows very well what efforts are being made both in general expansion of the economy and in local efforts to improve the position.

My local officers are doing all they can to help men who are redundant in the shipbuilding industry to find alternative jobs which will make use of their skills.

Having regard to that sympathetic reply, would I be right in assuming that my right hon. Friend would be pleased to help his officers in the areas where shipbuilding is slowing down, by making representations, as I am sure he will, to the Cabinet as a whole to accelerate the naval shipbuilding programme? Is he aware that this will keep skilled men in occupation? Would he please appreciate how disastrous it would be to Tyneside and other shipbuilding areas if the skilled labour force were allowed to disperse and cause enormous havoc such as was caused at the beginning of the last wax when they had been dispersed because of unemployment? Would my right hon. Friend get on to the Admiralty?

I entirely agree with what my hon. Friend said about the need for a skilled labour force. I am certain that this is one of the considerations we must bear in mind, in looking forward to a period of expansion, to see that these areas where there is heavy unemployment do not lose the chance of expansion merely because there is not enough skilled labour available. On the other part of the question, I must not succumb to the blandishments of my hon. Friend. She is trying to drive a wedge between me and the rest of the Cabinet, but I will see that my right hon. Friends are made aware of what she has said.

Yes, but—

No. Mr. Dugdale.

asked the Minister of Labour how many unemployed were on the register of the West Bromwich Employment Exchange on 12th November, 1962.

One thousand seven hundred and sixty-five, of whom 691 were temporarily stopped.

But is the hon. Gentleman aware that as long ago as June of this year grave concern was expressed locally at the high unemployment figures which are not only higher than those in the Midlands, but higher than the average for the country? Will he give this matter his very careful consideration? Does he realise that the Midlands can no longer be classed as an area free from unemployment, and that the position there is now rapidly approaching that in areas in the North-East and other areas for which he has a grave responsibility?

I do not think I can go quite as far as agreeing with the right hon. Gentleman that the Midlands rival some of the other areas of the country. I should point out that over one-third of the unemployment figure that I gave referred to people who were temporarily stopped. The wholly unemployed rate in West Bromwich is 2·3 per cent. as against the national average of 2·2 per cent.

Can my hon. Friend say how many of these unemployed were immigrants?

Not without notice.

Will the hon. Gentleman realise that immigrants are in exactly the same position as everybody else and have to be employed? We cannot say that they should be wiped out and do not count at all.

I do not think that I ever made any such suggestion.

asked the Minister of Labour why he considers the Brancepeth, County Durham, Industrial Training Centre to be unsuitable for training juveniles and adults.

Brancepeth is not an industrial training centre. It could be adapted for this purpose, but premises now available at Tursdale, three miles away, are more suitable.

Would the right hon. Gentleman tell the House why he changed his mind in moving from the Brancepeth proposal? Is not the Tursdale scheme just making a mockery of his recent White Paper on industrial training because of the limited facilities available there? Will he stop bluffing the public that the Government are doing something when we know perfectly well that Tursdale is linked up with the mining industry in the county, and realise that to meet the problem outside the mining industry we need another training centre?

The reason why I have gone to Tursdale is that I can start training there quicker than if I waited for Brancepeth. These premises, which have been made available by the National Coal Board, are suitable for this purpose and will enable me to get on with the job sooner.

asked the Minister of Labour what has been the increase in the numbers of those employed in the machine tool industry in Scotland and Great Britain, respectively, since 1951.

Owing to changes in industrial classification, the figures are not strictly comparable but it is estimated that between 1951 and 1961 there were increases of about 3,800 in Scotland and 58,000 in Great Britain.

But do not these figures indicate that Scotland has been failing to get its proper share of development in this industry? Is it not because Scotland is failing to gets its share in these developing and expanding industries that Scottish unemployment is so high and many people have to leave Scotland?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that we all wish to see more expanding and new industries going to Scotland. In considering this industry, however, I think he should know that since 1951 employment in Scotland has more than doubled compared with an increase of about 65 per cent. in Great Britain. I am not saying that Scotland has had its proper share, but in this case it has done rather better proportionately than Great Britain.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the increase or decrease in the numbers of boys of 18 years and under in employment in Scotland and Great Britain, respectively, from 1951 to the latest available date.

Separate figures are only available for boys under 18. Between May, 1951, and May, 1961, inclusive the number of such boys in employment decreased by 6,600 in Scotland and increased by 53,500 in Great Britain.

As there is a higher birth rate in Scotland than in England—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Time does not permit me to say why—is it not rather amazing that there should be fewer boys employed now than 11 years ago, and is not this really a terrible indictment of Tory rule over the past 11 years?

From the evidence that I have, few of the 15 to 17 year old boys leave Scotland on their own to find work. The cause of this decline is that many of these children have left with their parents who have moved elsewhere.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that there has been a steady decline in male labour, men as well as boys? This is perhaps the most disturbing characteristic of the development in Scotland—that we are steadily losing the male part of our population. Will the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the seriousness of this problem and do something very much more than he has tried to do up to the present time?

The hon. Gentleman is right. There has been a decrease in male labour. I was explaining, in answer to his hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, East (Mr. Willis), that when families have left the children have gone with them, and that this accounted for the fall in the number of boys there. On the general point, I repeat what I said to the hon. Member for Edinburgh, East, that we all wish to see new and expanding industries going to Scotland, and we will do our best to see that it happens.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that unemployment in Jarrow and Hebburn is three times higher than the national average; and what are the employment prospects of the people concerned.

Yes, Sir. Though there are few notified vacancies at present, there are a number of jobs in prospect in the area.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary please change the record? Does not he realise that this is the kind of Answer I have been getting for 10 years? There are always jobs in prospect, there are always jobs in the pipeline, but these jobs never materialise. Does he not appreciate that what the people of Jarrow are experiencing now is what they went through in the inter-war years. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] For the unemployed it is. Their prospects under the present Government seem little better than they did under the Administration which really murdered the town. Would not be better if the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. Friend admitted that they have not a clue, that they do not know how to solve the problem, and gave way to people who would make some serious attempt to do so?

I can only assume that the reason why the hon. Member is getting the same answer is that he has been asking the same question. [Interruption.] Having said that, I do not think that he would really suggest that it is right to compare the position today with that of the 1930s, as he has been doing. This does not render any service to those in the areas concerned, or to anyone else. He also knows that quite a few jobs have been produced. He underrates what has been done. I can only say that by general measures taken by my right hon. Friend to reflate the economy, by measures to increase expenditure in the North-East, and by the facilities provided by the Local Employment Act, considerable efforts have been made to improve the position.

The Parliamentary Secretary must not be flippant in his replies to these Questions. Is he aware that in the replies given to this Question and the preceding ones he and his right hon. Friend have put forward no new ideas, and have offered no prospect of new policies in respect of this matter? Does he realise that last night, in a speech in London, the Leader of the House said that the Government intended to speed up the process of bringing industries to these areas? If that is so, should not he and his right hon. Friend have been able to give us some details today? Or was the Leader of the House—like so many other Cabinet Ministers—raising hopes that will not be fulfilled under this Government?

If anything that I have said could be construed as flippant I apologise. It was not my desire and I had no intention of being flippant. I naturally regard the position as serious, as everyone does. I do not think that it would be for me to add anything to what the Leader of the House has said. Naturally, he speaks with great authority.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the number of employees, at the latest available date, engaged in the manufacture of parts and accessories of motor vehicles, and in the aircraft industry; and what proportion of those employees is located in Scotland.

The manufacture of many components for motors and aircraft is included in the industrial classification for the parent industry. These two industries are the subject of other Questions. The manufacture of ball bearings, precision chains, etc., employed 207,000 in Great Britain in mid-1961, of whom 4 per cent. were employed in Scotland. The manufacture of rubber goods, which includes tyres and tubes, employed 124,000 in Great Britain, of whom 6·9 per cent. were employed in Scotland.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his reply to this Question and previous ones is a clear indication of the Government's complete failure properly to plan the location of industry? Will he, in conjunction with his right hon. Friends the President of the Board of Trade and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, consider these figures with a view to seeing that something is done about them?

As the hon. Member knows. I am in the closest touch with my right hon. Friends.

We want results.

We cannot change situations overnight. What we wish to see is more new industry following the industry that has already gone to Scotland, to take the place of those industries which are declining. This is the policy of the Government, and we shall pursue it with the greatest vigour.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the number of employees, at the latest available date, engaged in the manufacture of electrical goods, other than electrical machinery; and what proportion of those employees is located in Scotland.

The current classification relates to the manufacture of "Other electrical goods", which includes electrical equipment for motor vehicles, cycles and aircraft; batteries; electric lamps; and miscellaneous electrical goods. In mid-1961 the number employed in Great Britain was 147,000 of whom 4 per cent. were employed in Scotland.

In the light of these disappointing figures, what action has the Minister taken to increase employment in the electronic nucleus which already exists round Edinburgh by consulting the National Research Development Corporation, and also by setting up joint projects with the Corporation, as he is entitled to do?

It is exactly this type of light industry that we wish to see going to Scotland and the North-East, and we shall do everything we can to see that this process is encouraged.

Bluntly—what contact has the Minister had with the N.R.D.C.?

asked the Minister of Labour what is the number of employees, at the latest available date, engaged in manufacture and repair in the aircraft industry; and what proportion of those employees is located in Scotland.

In mid-1961 the number employed in Great Britain was 297,000, of whom 5 per cent. were employed in Scotland.

Does the Minister recognise that these figures are disappointing? Scotland never gets its share of the manufacturing element in the aircraft industry. Surely some easement of the position could be brought about by providing that some of the repair work was done in Scotland.

I will certainly see that the hon. Member's suggestion is brought to the attention of my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the number of employees, at the latest available date, engaged in the manufacture of scientific, surgical and photographic instruments; and what proportion of those employees is located in Scotland.

In mid-1961 the number employed in Great Britain was 134,300, of whom 4·8 per cent. were employed in Scotland.

Surely the right hon. Gentleman recognises that these are exactly the types of industry which should be dealt with under the Location of Industry Act. Cannot he take action by making recommendations to Government Departments which must, through their own activities, create a good deal of work for these desirable industries which are needed in the North?

I have answered the Question. I could have answered all these Questions at the same time, but I thought it more courteous to hon. Members not to do so. In answer to the hon. Member, I can say that we all wish to see a larger share of the expanding industries going to Scotland and the North-East.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the number of employees, at the latest available date, engaged in the chemicals and dyes industry; and what proportion of those employees is in Scotland.

In mid-1961 the number employed in Great Britain was 216,800, of whom 7 per cent. were employed in Scotland.

Does not the Minister agree that this percentage is much too small? What steps does he propose to take, with other Ministers, to ensure that Scotland obtains a larger share of these industries?

I repeat what I have said to other hon. Members; it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to encourage in every possible way the movement of these expanding industries to Scotland and to other areas of heavy unemployment.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the number of employees, at the latest available date, engaged in the manufacture of electrical wires and cables; and what proportion of those employees is in Scotland.

This industry is now defined as the manufacture of insulated wire and cables. In mid-1961 the number employed in Great Britain was 62,900, of whom 1·4 per cent. were employed in Scotland.

Does not the Minister appreciate that most of the products of this industry are used either in the nationalised electricity industry or in the Post Office? Will he approach both industries, with a view to seeing that they themselves—since they are customers of the industry—insist on a very much larger proportion of the manufacturing processes being carried out north of the Humber, if not necessarily in Scotland—although we want as much in Scotland as possible?

I will see that the hon. Member's suggestions are drawn to the attention of my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the number of employees, at the latest available date, engaged in the manufacture of wireless valves and electric lamps; and what proportion of those employees is located in Scotland.

The manufacture of wireless valves is now classified with the manufacture of radio and other electronic apparatus, which is being dealt with in a later Question. The manufacture of electric lamps is now classified with the manufacture of other electrical goods, which was covered in my reply to the hon. Member for West Lothian (Mr. Dalyell).

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that over the past few years there has been a considerable reduction in the Scottish figures? Ever since 1951 we have been appealing to the right hon. Gentleman and his right hon. Friends to do something to maintain and expand these light industries in Scotland. Will he now tell the House what has transpired between himself and his right hon. Friend—with whom he has apparently had the closest consultations—to remedy this unsatisfactory situation?

I do not want to refer again to the number of jobs which have accrued to Scotland under the Local Employment Act since it was brought into effect, because when I do so it merely causes complaint. All I ask is that hon. Members should realise that the Government are doing all they can to see that new industry comes to areas of heavy unemployment.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the number of employees, at the latest available date, engaged in motor vehicle and cycle manufacturing; and what proportion of those employees is located in Scotland.

In mid-1961 the number employed in Great Britain was 446,100, of whom 1·5 per cent. were employed in Scotland.

Since this is one of the expanding industries in Britain, does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the percentage coming to Scotland is a shocking one? This represents far too small a proportion of the people employed in the industry. When does the Minister propose to remove the blockage which is preventing a greater flow of new jobs in this industry from the now infamous pipeline?

I have already explained that my right hon. Friend and other members of the Government are doing what they can to improve the situation.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that the many replies that he has given to these Questions indicate that the policy which he and his right hon. Friends have followed for the last 11 years has been largely a failure in Scotland—a fact emphasised by the answer he gave two days ago, which showed that at a time when male employment had increased by 855,000 in England and Wales it had decreased by 16,000 in Scotland? Is he aware that the former President of the Board of Trade—now Lord Eccles—suggested only last week that special steps would have to be taken to deal with this problem? Is it the fact that only Tory ex-Ministers know what should be done to solve the problem? In the circumstances, would it not be better if they wore all ex-Ministers?

I will try to answer the serious point raised by the hon. Member As he knows, many new jobs have accrued to Scotland as a result of policies for which Her Majesty's Government were responsible. It is also true that there has been a fairly rapid decline in some of the old industries. We should naturally like to see more expanding industries coming to Scotland. It is clear that the steps taken by my right hon. Friends the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the President of the Board of Trade are going to have their effect in generally reflating the economy and enabling expansion to take place. I hope that hon. Members will not paint too grim a picture of depression. This will not help either their constituents or the new industries which might be going to these areas.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the policy that he is following is proving inadequate because what is happening is, at the very best, that Scotland and, indeed, the whole of the North are getting more employment only by the expansion of branches of other industries into the area? Does he not realise that we shall not solve this problem of the North until we get more of the newer growth industries established there—with their headquarters—so that growth will inevitably take place in the North? Does he not also realise that this change of policy is essential if we are to deal with the problem?

The hon. Gentleman agrees with me that what we want to do is to get more of the newer growth type of industries up to Scotland. This is precisely what our policies are designed to do.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the number of unemployed persons in Sunderland on the latest available date; what was the corresponding figure for the previous year; and what factors have caused the increase.

6,537 persons were unemployed in the Sunderland area on 12th November, compared with 3,923 on 13th November, 1961. The main industries affected by increases were shipbuilding and ship-repairing, engineering and electrical goods and construction.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary recognise that these are very grave figures indeed? This reveals a very black position in Sunderland. Can he say why the Government have done nothing about this, why we were taken off the list of aided areas, why no anticipation of this position was shown by the Government, and when we are to get some help?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that these figures disclose a serious position, but be knows very well that the Government have done a considerable amount for Sunderland. The facilities of the Local Employment Act have just been restored to the area, and my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade has announced a proposal to build an advance factory there. In addition, same 3,800 jobs are expected to arise from new buildings and other developments.

Does my hon. Friend recognise that while mast people welcome the actions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, it is not necessarily true that these actions in releasing credit and other matters will be of direct or immediate help or that even in the remote future they will help the heavy industrial areas?

I should have thought that the measures taken to expand the economy as a whole were bound to have an effect throughout the economy.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary answer my question? In the light of these figures, why was Sunderland taken off the list of areas being aided by the Government?

I did by best to answer the hon. Gentleman's question before. It is because of these figures that Sunderland has been restored to the full facilities of a development district.

asked the Minister of Labour what action he has taken about the provision of alternative work in shipyards.

Some shipyards have, with considerable initiative, secured alternative work and have begun, for example, to play a part in industrialised building. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Public Building and Works is giving further consideration to the possibility of developments in this field.

While recognising what has been done in some yards, and also the importance, so far as possible, of keeping the labour force attached to the yards, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman to make this a particular study and to call in the co-operation of the shipbuilders to see that every effective step is taken and that, if necessary, Government aid is given to this sort of work?

As I have just told the hon. Gentleman, the Minister of Public Building and Works is giving further consideration to the whole of this idea.

With regard to the provision of work in shipyards, may I ask my right hon. Friend what progress has been made towards merging the considerable number of unions engaged in shipbuilding with a view to avoiding disputes and higher costs which arise from lines of demarcation, thus preparing the industry to compete for orders when world demand for new shipping improves?

Discussions with both employers and trade unions in the shipbuilding industry are at the moment taking place under the chairmanship of a senior officer of my Ministry. The object of these discussions is perfectly simple—that, on the one side, the employers should give the workers greater security at work and, on the other, that there should be far fewer of these demarcation troubles and disputes which have damaged the competi- tive position of the shipbuilding industry. I sincerely hope that we shall make progress in these talks. At the moment, I have nothing further to say to my hon. Friend than that which I have just told him.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that the great and increasing unemployment in the shipyards, not only in north-east England but in north-east Scotland, is an attack upon one of Britain's major traditional industries, and that it demands a really constructive plan for its solution by the Minister? What is his plan?

The hon. and learned Gentleman always has a great sense of the dramatic. He knows perfectly well that if he wants a serious answer he should put his question to the Minister responsible for the shipbuilding industry. I hope that we do not take too pessimistic a view of the future of the industry. Admittedly, there is a good deal of shipbuilding capacity surplus to world requirements at the moment. Although this industry may have to contract, I do not believe that it has not a very considerable future.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement on the steps he will take to implement the proposals contained in the White Paper on Industrial Training; and when he expects to introduce legislation.

I have put the proposals before the British Employers' Confederation, the Trades Union Congress and the nationalised industries. My right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Minister of Education are consulting educational interests. It is the Government's intention to complete these discussions as soon as possible in view of the radical new approach to industrial training comprised in these proposals. I cannot at this stage indicate when discussions will be completed.

Is the Minister aware that hon. Members on this side of the House welcomed the White Paper but regret that these steps were not taken two or three years ago when they were advocated by hon. Members on this side so that advantage could have been taken of them before the bulge in the number of school leavers and there would have been no lack of opportunity of training in the last few years? Will the right hon. Gentleman do everything to speed up the consultations? May we expect him to present a Bill to this House during the current Session?

I cannot remember that in 1958 the hon. Gentleman or any of his hon. Friends attacked the Carr Report. That was supported by the trade union movement. I do not think that the hon. Gentleman can claim too much merit for the authorship of these proposals. Naturally, I wish to see that the discussions are completed as quickly as possible. These are radical and new proposals which will be of great benefit to industrial training. I shall see that there will be no unnecessary delay in seeking a conclusion.