asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what representations have been made to him concerning the proposal to add a top storey to the Foreign Office building; and whether he will give an assurance that no action will be taken which would affect the appearance of the skyline of the building.

The proposal, which has been accepted by the Royal Fine Art Commission, is to add a further storey to part only of the Foreign Office building. The only representation I have received is from the Victorian Society. The effect of the scheme on the skyline of the building should be scarcely noticeable.

May I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his reply and especially for the reassurance in the latter part of his Answer? Are we to assume that he has had the best possible advice from other sources, as well as the view of the Royal Fine Art Commission?

I think that that may fairly be assumed.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works when it is now hoped to complete the work on Nos. 10–12, Downing Street and the Treasury, respectively.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works on what basis he estimates that the reconstruction of Nos. 10, 11, and 12, Downing Street will be completed by August, 1963.

The reconstruction of Nos. 10, 11, and 12, Downing Street and the Treasury is expected to be completed in August, 1963. This date is based on close discussion with the main contractor who has prepared a detailed programme for the work in consultation with the unions concerned. In agreement with the National Federation of Building Trades Operatives the main contractor has introduced a special incentive bonus scheme which is based on completion of the work in August, 1963.

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us how much has been expended to date, or to the nearest date, on this reconstruction?

I cannot give the figure as of this moment.

Am I not right in thinking that formerly at the end of Downing Street, at the top of the steps leading to Foreign Office Green, there was an archway? Is there any chance of this being incorporated in the reconstruction?

We will consider the point raised by my hon. Friend. I have no information about that point in my head at the moment.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what contracts his Department has placed with North-East firms during 1961 and 1962 up to the latest available date.

During the period 1st January, 1961, to 30th November, 1962, my Ministry has ordered works contracts valued at £1,008,200 to be carried out in the North-East. In addition, it has placed contracts for stores items valued at £483,737 with firms in development districts in the North-East.

Is the Minister aware that the orders which have been placed in the North-East have been far from adequate? Is he aware that the more orders his Department and any other Department place in the North-East, the better will be the opportunities for employment in those industries? Will he take note of the fact that we want more orders from his Department and other Departments?

I take note of what the hon. Member said. There is another Question on the Order Paper about future work.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works when he will improve the street lighting in Birdcage Walk.

We hope to carry out the work in 1964.

Will this then enable motorists to see their way along this road?

Yes, Sir. The new lighting will be considerably brighter and the lamps will be electric.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what proposals are in train for the installation of fume extraction plant in the kitchens of the House of Commons.

All the kitchens in the House of Commons are equipped with fume extraction plant. An improvement in the ventilation hood round the fish fryer in the kitchen serving the North Curtain Cafeteria has been made.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that an improvement has been noted but that hitherto the Mother of Parliaments has been in need of a deoderant, and that somebody needed to tell her?

Yes.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what progress has been made in implementing the recommendations of the Emmerson Report.

The recent changes in the functions of my Ministry will enable the Government to use its powers as client of the construction industries to ensure that the most economical and up-to-date administrative and technical practices are more widely introduced in the public sector.

Has my right hon. Friend seen the report of an independent inquiry into the construction industries published by the Builder? In view of the important corroborative evidence from that source that much could be done to improve the productivity of the building industry, will my right hon. Friend do all he can to give effect to its recommendations as soon as possible?

I have seen the independent report to which my hon. Friend refers and I have commended it as a useful contribution to the studies which are taking place. I think that the Emmerson Report, as a result of the action taken by my predecessor and my hon. Friend, has also made an important contribution. I intend to ensure that its major recommendations are carried out as speedily as possible.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works (1) how many factories for the manufacture of industrialised houses will be sited in the north-east of England;

There is a limited amount of production of industrialised housing at present, but it is too early to forecast either the location of new factories where industrialised housing may be produced or the number of jobs likely to be created.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his reply. Will he do his best in discussion with his right hon. Friends concerned to encourage as much of this new form of production as practicable to be sited in the north-east of England, which needs new forms of production? Does he agree that the probable large amounts of timber which will be involved in the production of industrialised houses can probably enter the country most easily through our East Coast ports from Scandinavia and that this should help to keep down the eventual end cost of the industrialised house? Does he agree also that this will serve to knock out the long-haul argument which has been so often used in the past in connection with the North-East?

I certainly share my hon. Friend's sense of urgency about this. All these kindred matters are being given a high priority by my Ministry in consultation with other Departments concerned.

Can the Minister tell us where this limited industrialised development is taking place in the North-East?

There are a number of Questions later referring specifically to the North-East. This is a general question. All I can say is that in consultation with my colleagues at the Treasury and other Departments we are considering how the additional public investment programme which my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has announced can be channelled to the North-East and similar areas.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether and to what extent he has been approached by the Secretary of State for War regarding the speedy production of industrialised houses to satisfactorily solve the housing problem in B.A.O.R., whether he is co-operating, where such industrialised houses will be produced, and, especially in view of the protest of my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Mr. Slater), whether this can be done in the North-East?

This is a matter on which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War has answered Questions in the House. We will be concerned through my new Director-General of Research and Development in giving assistance in this way.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will make a statement on his proposals fax providing alternative work in shipyards.

As my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour said in reply to the hon. Member for Sunderland, North (Mr. Willey) on 12th December, I am giving consideration to this possibility.

Cannot the Minister be just a little more specific than that? Is he thinking, for example, about this in the context of the building of industrialised houses? Is he aware that, although we would like to see shipyards doing the job for which they were built, namely, building ships, if that cannot be arranged we should be very glad to see the skill and facilities which they have used for other things such as, for example, the building of industrialised houses?

In so far as the shipyards need further outlets for their activities at present, I have been in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport as to how we can best use spare capacity for the preparation of building components and matters of that kind. I have in mind setting up a team which will consider in detail the various types of prefabrication which the shipyards might undertake.

Will the right hon. Gentleman go beyond the stage of consideration and indicate some specific proposal the Government have in mind?

It must be appreciated that this is a new field of activity and there are formidable problems to be solved.

Unemployment is not a new field of inactivity. Would the right hon. Gentleman approach it from that point of view and try, if he appoints this team, to get it to report much more speedily than some other teams have reported?

That is exactly what we have in mind.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what steps he is taking to ensure that national demands on the construction industries are co-ordinated and related to the capacity of the industries.

I have set up an Economic Intelligence Unit with the object of providing a first-class service of statistical and economic information about the present and future capacity of the construction industries, and the likely demands on them both nationally and regionally. It will co-operate closely with the Treasury and other Departments, and also maintain close contact with the staff of the National Economic Development Council and with representatives of the construction industries. In this way I hope to contribute towards securing the fullest possible use of the construction industries at all times and in all areas, while avoiding the dangers of overloading them.

While congratulating my right hon. Friend, may I ask him who will be in charge of the Economic Intelligence Unit?

It will be in charge of an assistant secretary in my Department.

Will the results of its researches be published?

In so far as that proves to be desirable.

Will the right hon. Gentleman have a word with his colleague the Minister of Education who is now saying that he is unable to consider the capacity in the building industry in laying down the 1964–65 school building programme?

Obviously in preparing the whole of the public investment programme regard must be had to the capacity of the construction industries. That will certainly be borne in mind.

What could possibly be undesirable about publishing the results if they are of any use?

If they are of any use and if they are documents which ought to be published, we will publish them.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works, in view of the unemployment which exists, what plans he has made to utilise more manpower for necessary building works within his responsibility.

I have given instructions that any deferred maintenance and necessary minor works of construction for which I am responsible shall be put in hand as a matter of urgency in the areas concerned.

What exactly are the plans of the Minister? What is he proposing should be done at present in excess of what would be done normally, in view of the large amount of unemployment there is and the sad prospects in the employment market in future? Has he any plans? Has he put them before the Treasury? Has he discussed them with his colleagues? What does he propose to do about the present emergency?

Yes, I have plans; and yes, I have put them before all my colleagues. As the House will appreciate, major new works take some time to plan and therefore cannot make an immediate contribution to the employment problem. What can make a fairly quick contribution is minor works and works of maintenance which can be fed into the construction industry quickly and provide employment, particularly employment for the unskilled people who are largely the cause of difficulty. The House will have seen the statement which my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer made yesterday on the subject of minor works and maintenance which can be carried out by local authorities in these areas.

In view of the unsatisfactory reply, I give notice that I propose to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware of the inadequate number of telephone lines from London to the Midlands at certain periods during the day; and what plans he has to remedy the situation.

Yes, Sir, we know that at times there are not enough circuits between London and Birmingham, and we are sorry for the inconvenience this must cause. Additional circuits are, however, being provided during the next few months.

Whilst thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask her what is the system for analysing the number of times that the automatic "no lines available" circuit is put into effect?

I cannot go into detail at the moment as to the exact system, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman that a very close watch is kept on these lines. All the time we are putting extra circuits into operation, because we are anxious to give the best possible service.

asked the Postmaster-General what progress is being made with the subscriber trunk dialling system throughout the country.

We have provided 1½ million telephone subscribers with subscriber trunk dialling, representing more than one quarter of the total. We expect that 70 per cent. of all subscribers will have S.T.D. by 1966, and that 90 per cent. will have it by 1970.

Can my hon. Friend say whether or not she has found that this has, in the main, proved popular with subscribers or are they finding that their bills are mounting terribly?

I think that I can assure the House that the subscriber trunk dialling system has proved popular with people. Before they get it they are rather apprehensive, but once they have it and receive their bills they realise that it is very good value.

Is not the hon. Lady aware that this is not proving correct and that her Department has been the subject of a great deal of public and Press criticism over S.T.D.? While most of my hon. Friends think that the mechanisation of dialling to this extent is a good thing, should not the Post Office do more to advertise the good points about the introduction of this system, rather than allow so much public criticism to come to the fore against the G.P.O.?

I think the hon. Member is stressing the criticism that there is in many quarters about the timed local calls and not the advantages of the trunk calls. We are certainly doing everything we can in both respects to ensure that the general public have a system which satisfies them and gives them good value.

Can the Assistant Postmaster-General say when she expects a report on the working of S.T.D., as well as on the working of the Post Office, during the past year?

I cannot give the hon. Member a date at the moment.

Will the hon. Lady try to find it out from her right hon. Friend in due course?

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the inadequacy of the three minute unit as the basis for local telephone calls and that business calls by domestic subscribers are now proving more expensive, he will increase the time allowed per unit.

I am sorry that I am not at the moment in a position to make any statement on this subject.

Is the Postmaster-General aware that many subscribers think it reasonable that local calls should be timed but that the present basis amounts to extortion? In considering any revision will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that at the moment he is perilously near to killing the proverbial goose?

I know the hon. Member's view on this and that it is shared by a number of hon. Members on both sides of the House. As far as possible, I want to give the public what they want and not what I think they should have. Perhaps I can leave it at that for the moment.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to have a special inquiry made into this matter, because he knows exactly where I stand in regard to my approach to S.T.D.? While there is a growing public feeling that the S.T.D. charges as related to trunk calls are very reasonable, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is an inclination for people think that local calls are in a different category, that many people are now being denied the right of reasonable social conversation and that it looks as if the average charge for inland local calls is now about 6d.? That certainly is excessive and will the Postmaster-General look into the Whole situation?

I do not think the final comment made by the hon. Member is quite right. It is the fact that about three-quarters of the local calls on S.T.D. are charged at 2d. at the moment, but that is not to say that there is not a good deal of force in the general contention of the hon. Gentleman, which I shall certainly bear in mind.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a number of elderly people get a great deal of comfort from using the telephone to talk to their relatives, and that the extra cost is bearing very heavily on them, particularly in Folkestone, and will he give those facts his consideration?

That is one of the factors that is uppermost in my mind.

asked the Postmaster-General why it is stated to be impossible for residents to obtain telephone service in the Rosemary Lane area of Blackwater, near Camberley, before 1964; and whether he will accelerate the provision of this service in view of its importance to business and other telephone users.

I am sorry that it is not possible to give telephone service to wait- ing applicants in the Rosemary Lane area until more cables have been laid. This work will take some months to complete and cannot be accelerated because of the many urgent commitments which the telephone manager has on hand.

Does my hon. Friend realise that this is an area of very substantial development, and that the reason why these lines cannot be laid is because the county council has not decided on the road which it wants to construct in this district? Is it not possible for the Post Office to make arrangements which are not to be dependent on decisions of that character, and does not the Department look forward, in a case where a large number of houses is being built, to putting in the lines within a reasonable time?

The position about this is that the county council did take some time to decide on the extension of its roads. That has now been agreed, the ducts are being laid and a start on laying the cable will be made in the spring of 1963.

When will it be completed?

A great many of the subscribers in two of the housing estates served by Rosemary Lane will not be getting their telephone service until the end of 1963, when the cable will be laid, or the beginning of 1964.

asked the Postmaster-General why the United Kingdom is not participating in the world-wide issue of Freedom from Hunger stamps.

My right hon. Friend has now decided that we should issue two special stamps on 21st March to mark the Freedom from Hunger campaign.

Will the hon. Lady accept my appreciation—and, I am sure, that of the whole House—of this belated but very welcome acceptance of this idea? Is it not the case that the vast majority of nations had already decided to do it, and would it not have been deplorable had we continued to he one of a misguided minority?

Will the Assistant Postmaster-General make sure that these new stamps are, in fact, better than the last lot which came out? Some of us did not think much of those and they certainly did not do much for the philately trade in this country.

We try to keep to the newest and best possible designs. We cannot please everyone all the time, but we believe in having as many innovations as possible because, we believe, that is the right line to take.

Now that the Post Office is adopting a more enlightened attitude towards stamps and designs, can we hope for stamps to commemorate Robert Burns and William Shakespeare?

That is too far from Freedom from Hunger. Mr. Ridley.

asked the Postmaster-General how many of the new series of Post Office radio stations, with high steel or concrete towers, he proposes to erect; and how many of these are either completed or in process of erection.

Twenty-one radio masts or towers more than 200 feet in height have been completed or are being built, and a further 15 are planned.

Would my right hon. Friend publish details of his plans for this series of towers, stating where they are all to go? Will he take particular care to consult all the local and amenity bodies concerned because of the danger of these towers spoiling some of the loveliest parts of England? Will they be erected on top of hills and will the Postmaster-General ensure that he takes the public with him and publishes the full scheme behind these plans?

Yes. I am perfectly willing to give my hon. Friend the details of these particular schemes but, meanwhile, I can say clearly that the amenity bodies are always consulted where their interests are affected and, of course, the planning bodies are brought into the picture too.

asked the Postmaster-General what is the precise function of the chain of high radio towers recently constructed or planned; and what considerations determine the siting of these towers.

The chain of high radio towers is part of a system of radio relay stations which has been under construction since 1949. It is required for the provision of telecommunications services by radio, and may also carry television signals between stations of the broadcasting authorities.

Is the Postmaster-General aware that his Department always manages to light with unerring accuracy on sites of great natural beauty with these 300 ft. concrete towers? Is this really necessary? Can he assure the House that the 36 under construction and planned, which the right hon. Gentleman referred to in his previous Answer, represent the limit, or is he going to pepper the countryside with these towers?

Regarding the last part of the hon. Member's supplementary question, as I said in reply to my hon. Friend, there are 21 under construction now and a further 15 planned. There are no further under contemplation at the moment. One reason—and I understand the hon. Member's apprehensions here—why these towers tend to offend those of us who are interested in amenity is that they have to be sited on high ground. Having said that, I can assure the hon. Member that we do wherever possible situate them on high ground which is not offensive to amenity.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether these towers have anything to do with defence and, if so, will he check to see that they are not already obsolete?

It is the case that some of these masts and towers are essential for defence communications in time of emergency.

asked the Postmaster-General whether in the exercise of his powers under Section 11 of the Post Office Act, 1953, he will instruct his Department to refuse to deliver postcards issued by a debt-collecting agency in Cardiff, the name of which has been sent to him, in view of the fact that these are libellous in character.

The Post Office is not in a position to decide whether or not the words on the cards in question are libellous: and my right hon. Friend cannot agree to do as the hon. Member asks.

Is the Assistant Postmaster-General aware that the writing of postcards, of which I think I sent her Department a copy, sent by the Cardiff Department Retail Bureau Ltd. is causing offence to the postmen who have to hand them over to the people and that it is a thoroughly offensive business for postmen to have to act as debt collectors under these conditions? Will her Department look again at this offensive custom which some business firms are using, for they are relying on the Post Office to do their work?

I can assure the hon. Member that we will watch this matter very carefully but, at the moment, we do not feel able to do anything more definite about it.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that two express letters addressed to the Town Clerk of Blackburn and to Mr. Roy Martin of Blackburn were posted at the House of Commons post office at 9.5 p.m. on Tuesday, 13th November, that they caught the 11.55 p.m. night mail from Euston, were off-loaded at Crewe at 5.46 a.m. on 14th November, forwarded to Blackburn at 8 p.m. that night and delivered by first post on 15th November; and whether he will consult the Railways Board with a view to ensuring that more adequate train facilities are made available for the Royal Mail in order to prevent such delays in future.

I am afraid the circumstances were not as previously described to the hon. Lady. The letters should have been delivered on the morning of 14th November. They failed because the mail van which took them to Euston was delayed and missed the train. I am sorry about this, and very much regret the inconvenience caused.

I am very grateful to the Postmaster at the House of Commons for the prompt inquiries he made into this delay and also for the anxiety he has always shown to give an efficient service to hon. Members. Is the hon. Lady aware that I have received a number of complaints from my constituency about the slowness of the postal service to the North? Does not her reply show that the facilities for the Royal Mail at Euston should be improved to enable any delays in transit to be rectified and for trains not to be missed? Does she agree that there is need for more through mail trains to Preston and the surrounding areas like Blackburn?

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her words about the Postmaster here, which we all endorse. I can assure her that we are looking at conditions at Euston at the moment. There are difficulties there because of the modernisation that is going on, but we believe that things will be better when the new station is open. However, we will look into her point about the through mail service.

asked the Postmaster-General what inquiries he has made of the North-East England Development Council about a possible sire for a Post Office Engineering Research Organisation.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will take steps to investigate the possibilities of sites in Scotland for a Post Office Engineering Research Organisation.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will undertake, in consultation with his Government colleagues, to site the Post Office Engineering Research Laboratory in an area of high unemployment.

I recognise the special claims to Scotland and the North-East and the areas of high unemployment generally, but I regret that working requirements make it necessary to envisage a location nearer to London for the Post Office Research Station.

Will not the hon. Lady agree that by setting up such an organisation, she would assist in giving opportunities to many of our young people who would like to be graded for this type of work? Is she further aware that, at the moment, we have 5,386 young people unemployed in the North-East, an increase of over 3,000 since 1st November? Does she not think that her Department, along with other Government Departments, ought to be concerned very greatly indeed in combating this scourge of unemployment in the North-East as soon as possible?

I recognise the unemployment figures which the hon. Member gave, but I would remind him that my Department has already directed the Savings Certificate Division to Durham. We are very conscious of the needs of the North-East and of Scotland.

Does not the hon. Lady agree that the Post Office could do a very valuable job for the nation if it were to lead the way in ensuring that these research departments were not all concentrated in the South and South-East? Would not the hon. Lady and her right hon. Friend on this occasion look closely into this matter to see if some other part of the country, other than these crowded areas, could benefit through the Post Office having these research stations installed?

We recognise the desirability of moving away, but the difficulty is that we must keep our research department and our development department very closely integrated. Our developments are current developments, and, for that reason, it is essential to have our research department in very close touch with the headquarters staff.

Will the hon. Lady bear in mind that the convenience of the working arrangements to which she has referred would attract other institutions and institutions and industries to Scotland and the North-East if she would move the engineering research station there?

As a Yorkshirewoman, I need very little attracting to the North-East.

asked the Postmaster-General how many scientists, skilled technicians, semi-skilled technicians, and unskilled men and women are employed at the Post Office Engineering Laboratory at Dollis Hill; and how many of these are on the permanent staff of his Department.

The staff of the Dollis Hill Research Station numbers 1,306, of whom 1,075 are established staff.

Is it not clear from that Answer that this is a very large research establishment, and just the kind of thing we want in Scotland or in other development areas? Is the hon. Lady aware that the argument of administrative inconvenience is precisely the argument used by private industry? If the Government will not set an example, how can they possibly expect private industry to co-operate with them in their distribution of industry policy?

I do not think that there is anything I can usefully add to my Answer to the previous Question.

asked the Postmaster-General what consultations he has had with the Post Office Advisory Council on the removal of the research laboratory from Dollis Hill.

None. Sir.

But would it not have been a good idea to have had a discussion with the Advisory Council, which is a cross-section of persons all over the country, to see whether or not the best possible site for the new laboratory was where the Minister intends to have it? Does she not think that it would have been far better to have had that very thin argument of hers looked at by these business men and representative persons, because it just does not work?

This, of course, is a matter of internal organisation, and it has never been customary to discuss this with the Advisory Council. But I would add that it is not the business people whom we wish to be near. We wish to keep our research staff and development staff close together, and that is the necessity for having our research station near our headquarters.

Whilst I would not, perhaps, go all the way with my hon. Friends in regard to the transfer to which reference has been made, is it not clear from the many Questions to the hon. Lady and to her right hon. Friend on the Order Paper today, that many of us on this side feel that the Post Office can take some very effective steps, during these critical days in some of the depressed areas, by making quite sure that the experimental work at Dollis Hill is distributed more evenly—in Scotland, the North-East and in other parts—instead of being concentrated in some of the more progressive and prosperous areas, as it is now? I cannot subscribe to some of the suggestions made, but I feel that the Post Office can do very much more effective work than it is doing at present.

The hon. Lady has said that this is not the kind of thing that this Council would discuss. Can she tell me what kind of thing it would discuss; and how often it has met since the right hon. Gentleman became Postmaster-General?

The sort of things we discuss are the sort of policy issues which concern the customer, in particular. I am afraid that, offhand, I cannot give the hon. Gentleman the number of times it has met since my right hon. Friend was appointed to his present position.

asked the Postmaster-General when the British Broadcasting Corporation expects to make the necessary change so that a wavelength can be made available exclusively for the North-East.

The B.B.C. tells me that the new arrangements will start on Monday, 7th January.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask him if he is aware that this has been a long campaign, and that the decision to have our own wavelength makes complete nonsense of the 14 years we have been told time and again that it was impossible to have our own wavelength? May I assure the right hon. Gentleman that the decision to have our own wavelength has been widely accepted in the North-East, where people now want to know if they can be compensated for all this inconvenience by being in the first area to have coloured television?

Of course, there has been no delay on the part of the Post Office or the B.B.C. This new wavelength became available through a rearrangement of wavelengths for the B.B.C.'s external services, following upon the decision to close down a transmitter in West Germany.

Is there any reason why this wavelength should not be used for at least part of the time for an experiment in local broadcasting in the North-East to give people the opportunity of saying whether they like it or do not like it?

I think it is more important to do what we have decided to do.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will state the outcome of investigations by the Joint Working Party of the Post Office and British Broadcasting Corporation into licence evasion for radio and television sets; what is the estimated loss of potential annual revenue to the British Broadcasting Corporation and Treasury; and what remedial measures he now proposes for 1963.

The working party has agreed that the most effective answer to licence evasion is a system of inquiry of individual households, conducted by post, followed up as necessary by personal inquiry, and backed by publicity. I have stepped up the scale of these inquiries, and they will be maintained at a high level during 1963. No reliable estimate can be given of the loss of revenue; but it is continually being reduced.

asked the Postmaster-General how many radio and television licences are currently in issue; what are the annual aggregate receipts compared respectively with five and ten years ago; what steps he is taking to prevent licence evasion with car radios; and what consideration he is giving to associating the car radio annual licence with the motor-taxation licence procedure to diminish the extent of evasion and loss of revenue.

At the end of October, 1962, there were just under 3½ million radio licences and nearly 12¼ million television licences in force; annual aggregate receipts (excluding television duty) for the respective financial years were: £14 million for 1951–52; £28 million for 1956–57; and £39 million for 1961–62.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his comprehensive Answers to both these Questions, may I ask whether he would agree that this is a very unsavoury state of affairs today, when several millions of revenue are being lost every year by the evasion of payment of the licence, most largely for radio, and to a lesser extent for television? Would he not agree that the spread in the use of car radio sets itself is a sufficient justification for looking afresh at the system by which the licence fee is paid? Is it not a fact that it is administratively very easy to attach the payment of these radio licences to the registration book for the motor car and, by a distinctive disc on car windscreens, put an end to this wholly odious form of evasion of payment?

I well understand what my hon. Friend has in mind, and I will certainly do all I can, but, in fairness, I must tell the House that one of the obstacles here is that the Ministry of Transport at present has no legal power to compel local taxation offices to do this sort of work, but it does not exclude the possibility of doing it by agreement.

Would my right hon. Friend refuse to add anything to the front ends of motor cars, because one car which I have noticed has got far too much on it already?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Though I am not dissatisfied with that Answer, none the less I should like to give notice that I intend to raise the matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible. It is not my car—it is the licences.

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware of the prohibition by Anglia Television of an advertisement for a series of articles in the Sunday Citizen entitled, "The Rotten Reich"; and if he will consult the Independent Television Authority under Section 4 of the Television Act 1954, with a view to clarifying the rules which govern advertisements which may be considered political.

The I.T.A. tells me that the advertisement to which the hon. Member refers was refused by Anglia Television Ltd., after consultation with the I.T.A., as being unacceptable in the light of Section 3 (1, a) of the Television Act. The latter part of the Question does not, therefore, arise.

Does the Section to which the Postmaster-General refers provide for the advertiser whose announcement have been banned being given the reasons for the action taken? As, in this particular instance, there has been a complete black-out by the joint censorship committee of the British Poster Advertising Association, is it not imperative that the Government should keep at least this line of communication open so that the banning of advertisements will not be imposed by purely private means?

The attitude of the Poster Association has nothing to do with me or with the Post Office, but I can tell the hon. Gentleman and the House that the third advertisement offered to Anglia Television by the Sunday Citizen drew attention to an article which was entitled, "The Blue Angels of Frankfurt", which dealt with prostitution in Germany. Both Anglia Television and the I.T.A. regarded this as offensive to good taste under Section 3 (1, a), and refused, I think rightly, to accept it.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that, in general, it is not desirable to have matters of a political nature advertised on television?

That, with respect to my hon. Friend, is a much more highly controversial slant to the question, but the fact is that this particular advertisement was refused, not on political grounds but because it offended good taste.

Would not the Postmaster-General consider that one of the best ways of dealing with this situation would be for the Government to give time for the introduction of a Bill preventing the dissemination of racial hatred?

asked the Prime Minister if he will give instructions to Ministers responsible for Departments of Her Majesty's Government that contracts shall not be given to firms which disallow trade union membership among their employees.

I have been asked to reply.

"… the contractor shall recognise the freedom of his work people to be members of trade unions"

Is the First Secretary aware that I have already done so? Is he aware that this firm has contracts with most of the Government Departments and with most of the nationalised industries; that its managing director called the staff together at its Slough depot, presented them with a statement withdrawing from the trade union, and asked them to sign it; that when seven members of the staff refused to sign the statement they were instantly dismissed; that the managing director refused to see the industrial relations officer of the Ministry of Labour; that it was only after this Question was put on the Order Paper a month ago that the Minister of Labour intervened, and that, subsequently, the firm has said that it will allow trade union membership? Will the right hon. Gentleman see that this promise is carried out in practice as well as in letter; and that the seven dismissed men have the opportunity of reinstatement?

Yes, Sir. I think that the hon. Member has expressed almost exactly the situation that arose in this firm. Officers representing my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour visited the firm, and I understand that the company has given an assurance that all its employees are free to join any trade union they wish. I hope that the hon. Member will keep in touch with my right hon. Friend and, in view of his request, I will also do so.

Will the First Secretary bear in mind that freedom to join a trade union is not of much use if the firm concerned then also says, "We are not willing to negotiate terms and conditions"? I understand that that is what this company was saying. Will he ask his right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour to make clear to the firm that any question of freedom to join a trade union must also involve willingness on the part of the firm to negotiate on salaries, terms and conditions?

Yes, Sir. I will discuss with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour with a view to contact with the firm.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in his talks with General de Gaulle, he raised the possibility of co-ordinated aid from France and the United Kingdom to developing countries, produced from under-utilised resources from areas such as North-East England, Merseyside, Scotland, and South-West France.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in his talks with General de Gaulle, he discussed aid to developing countries, in particular goods which are produced from under-utilised resources in areas such as parts of Wales, North-East England, Merseyside, Scotland, and Brittany.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in his talks with General de Gaulle, he raised the possibility of co-ordinated aid from France and Great Britain to developing countries; and whether, in the light of the need to arrest housing congestion in conurbations such as London and Paris, such aid could be found from under-utilised resources in areas such as Merseyside, Northern Ireland, Tees-side, Scotland and South-West France.

asked the Prime Minister whether, during his visit to General de Gaulle, he discussed the proposals, made in the European Economic Community Commission memorandum, "The Action Programme for the Second Stage", for planning aid to underdeveloped countries, particularly in view of the underemployment of capital goods industries in this and other European countries.

I have been asked to reply.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House when the Government propose to take seriously their promise of aid from under-utilised resources from these areas in Britain to developing countries?

Yes, Sir. An instance of our seriousness was given in the speech of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer last night—[Interruption.]—when he referred to this matter in some detail, and referred to the possible sum of £10 million as a possible additional aid to industries that have spare capacity. I think that my right hon. Friend very rightly said that it might well give hope to industries with spare capacity.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that sum of £10 million represents only about four months' employment of the surplus capacity in the steel and engineering industries on Tees-side alone and that it is derisory in relation to both the needs of under-developed countries and the capacities of the capital goods industry of this country?

It is not at all derisory and, as my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, we must see what countries are willing to accept these goods and what goods there are in surplus capacity and then we must make a start with the sum of money suggested.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that there are underdeveloped resources in this country and that there is continued and rising unemployment with which the Government seem unable to cope? Surely the Common Market countries are to be outward-looking as opposed to being a rich men's club, and should not top priority be given to discussions of this nature?

Hitherto the questions have related to developing countries overseas, but there is machinery for consultation about aid policy in Europe. In particular this is done through the Development Assistance Committee of O.E.C.D. of which we and France are members. That would be the machinery through which this would be considered.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, while he says that this was referred to in some detail by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the details take up only about half a column of HANSARD and that all that the Chancellor said was that we were looking at the possibilities? Cannot the right hon. Gentleman give us a little more detail than that? What effort is being made at present by the Departments to find out exactly what surplus capacity there is, and what instructions have been sent to embassies or other organisations overseas to see what aid is required? We want more than just looking at the possibilities.

This was referred to in a short paragraph by my right hon. Friend, but nevertheless it is very important and I will undertake to discuss with my right hon. Friend the further pursuit of this matter.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind and convey to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that unrequited exports on an unlimited scale, which is what the Opposition are asking for, make no contribution whatsoever to a prosperous and soundly based economy in Britain?

We have always to watch unrequited exports, but at the same time I think that there is great value in the suggestion made by my right hon. Friend.

asked the Prime Minister (1) what steps he has taken to improve the co-operation between the Northern Ireland Government and Her Majesty's Government, in view of the urgency of the need to solve Northern Ireland's unemployment problems;

I have been asked to reply.

Is my right hon. Friend fully aware that in Northern Ireland there is great concern at the moment that perhaps not every stone is left unturned to find an answer to the long-term problem of unemployment? Especially in view of the statement made last night by the Minister of Labour about special requirements to solve this problem, may I ask whether means will be taken to call special meetings and if necessary a long-term committee to solve this problem as soon as possible?

Mr. Andrews, the Minister of Commerce and the Minister of Finance were here as recently as 10th and 11th December. Prior to that we had a debate on the Hall Report—the Report of the Joint Working Party on the Economy of Northern Ireland—on 22nd November and my hon. Friend may realise and feel that we have this matter continually yin mind.

May I ask the First Secretary whether the National Economic Development Council takes into account the position in Northern Ireland in considering its future plans?

That I shall investigate in company with my right hon. Friend.

Did the right hon. Gentleman observe that last night several hon. Members from north-eastern constituencies decided not to vote for the Government's Motion? If same of the Ulster Members adopted the same policy, would that make any change in the Government's attitude towards Northern Ireland?

No, Sir.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of a reply to a Written Question on 13th December by the Home Secretary in which he states that the majority of public works are the responsibility of the Northern Ireland Government? Is my right hon. Friend taking this into account when he mentions the Hall Committee's Report in which the development of public works was not recommended and yet would appear to be a satisfactory start in this effort?

I have my right hon. Friend's reply before me and can only endorse what he says.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that last night the Minister of Labour deliberately excluded Northern Ireland from the areas in regard to which special action would be taken? Will he, therefore, take into account that what is required for Northern Ireland is not more meetings and more consultations but a policy, and will he reconsider what the Minister of Labour said last night?

I do not think that I can necessarily take that as an interpretation of my right hon. Friend's words. What I know is that Northern Ireland is constantly in our minds and we are perpetually taking steps to deal with it.

asked the Prime Minister if the public speech of the President of the Board of Trade to the Putney Conservative Association on 8th December on the Common Market represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

I have been asked to reply.

In view of this welcome recognition that it is not essential for Britain to join the E.E.C. and accept the humiliating terms which are being suggested by the Six, may I ask what is now being done to work out the alternatives in terms of overseas trade, particularly with the E.F.T.A. countries and our Commonwealth friends?

I do not accept the inference which the hon. Member brings to bear on the speech of my right hon. Friend. The position remains exactly as before. We are clear that we want to accede. We are equally clear that we want to get the right terms and conditions on which we can honourably accede. That is the position today and that remains the position.

Is it not impossible for the country to get the right terms as long as it appears that there is no alternative and the Government are not attempting to find an alternative?

The hon. Member can rely on the ingenuity and wisdom of the Government in having plans for all contingencies.

asked the Prime Minister what consultations he has had with President Ayub Khan on the future rôle of Pakistan in the Central Treaty Organisation and in the South East Asia Treaty Organisation.

I have been asked to reply.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, a few days before this Question was tabled, the Foreign Secretary of Pakistan stated that if necessary his Government were prepared to dissociate themselves from pacts with the West and obviously these were the two that were referred to? If they did so, would it be such a bad thing in view of the fact that a problem such as Kashmir is irritated by Pakistan's membership of these two Treaty bodies in the eyes of India, because she has no connection and it leads to trouble on the Indian frontier?

Pakistani Ministers have stated that Pakistan will honour her international commitments. I would only refer the hon. Member to the statement issued after my right hon. Friend the Commonwealth Secretary had discussions in Pakistan, to which I cannot add.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that that supplementary question is both mischievous and irrelevant and that recent events on the Indian sub-continent have proved the value of Pakistan's association with the West and the sad results that can happen to those countries which do not take a definite line of alignment with the West in what happens in the world?

It would be impossible to overrate the importance of Pakistan's alliances with the West.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that President Ayub Khan is a great friend of England and that the troubles that have happened in Kashmir have been going on for a long time and have to be resolved some time? Is he aware that Pakistan is not playing with Communist tigers but is a friend of Britain and that it would be better if the Indians settled the Kashmir problem so that there could be a general defence of the Northern frontier against Communism?

I am sure that the whole House will endorse the hon. Member's observations about the importance of a settlement or at least an understanding about the Kashmir problem.

asked the Prime Minister whether the statement of Sir David Ormsby-Gore, the British Ambassador in Washington, that the recent speech of Mr. Dean Acheson on the conduct of British foreign policy was much in line with the existing policy of the British Government, was made with his authority.

I have been asked to reply.

Does not the First Secretary realise that a great deal of confusion has been caused by the varying reactions of the British Ambassador and the Prime Minister to the speech by Mr. Dean Acheson? Would the right hon. Gentleman care to give us his own reaction?

My own reaction is the same as that given by the Prime Minister in reply to Lord Chandos in a letter which was published and universally supported.

In spite of his last reply, will the First Secretary agree that the impromptu remarks of the Ambassador were a good deal more sensible than the carefully thought-out remarks of the Prime Minister?

I think that these remarks should be read together.