asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware that some would-be subscribers in the Cheadle constituency will have been waiting five to six years before they obtain service under present plans; and whether he will take steps to give better service in this area.

I am sorry about the delays in providing telephones in some parts of the Cheadle constituency. The telephone manager is making a special effort to speed up the installation programme in these areas and none of our intending subscribers will have to wait as long as my hon. Friend suggests.

Is my right hon. Friend sure that no would-be subscriber in the Cheadle constituency will wait as much as five years?

Yes, I am quite sure.

asked the Postmaster-General if a decision has yet been taken in regard to the projected closure of the Petersfield Telephone Exchange.

I intend to have a new automatic exchange with S.T.D. in actual operation at Petersfield towards the end of 1965. The present manual exchange will then be closed and operator services will be provided from Portsmouth.

Will provision be made to find jobs elsewhere for those who are currently employed at the Petersfield Telephone Exchange?

Yes, certainly. Established members of the staff still in our employment at the time of conversion will be offered alternative employment. We shall do all we can to cope with the situation of temporaries as well.

asked the Postmaster-General what is the estimated net increase in telephone demand over the next five years, and the projected net expansion of the service.

The rate at which the telephone service will develop during the next five years will depend on a number of factors. The best estimate I can make at present is that telephone demand will total nearly three million, supply will be of about the same order, and the net expansion of the service after allowing for cessations will be about one and a half million.

As there is so much lag in the economy at present, and as there appears to be some room for expansion, should not we be devoting more of our resources to providing increased telephone services?

That is what we are doing. I am seeking to secure a net growth of about 5 per cent. in the telephone service over the next five years. I am sure that we shall achieve that.

asked the Postmaster-General where the Edinburgh telephone directory is printed.

asked the Postmaster-General what arrangements he makes for accepting tenders for the printing of the south-west Scotland telephone directory.

asked the Postmaster-General where the Glasgow telephone directory is printed.

The printing of all telephone directories is handled on our behalf by Her Majesty's Stationery Office. I understand from my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary that most of this work is done at their works at Harrow. The Edinburgh and Glasgow directories are primed there. Some of the smaller directories, including the local Dumfries and Galloway directory covering south-west Scotland, are printed under contract by private firms. The contracts are placed by Her Majesty's Stationery Office by competitive tender and that for the Dumfries and Galloway directory is held by John McQueen Ltd. of Galashiels.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that whilst we are quite happy that it should be done by the Stationery Office, some of this work could be done in Scotland? The Stationery Office has just taken over a printing works in Scotland. Does not the hon. Gentleman consider that this is the type of work which could be given to areas in which there is a high level of unemployment?

I shall have to consult my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, but I understand that he has plans for printing some directories in Edinburgh.

Can the hon. Gentleman find out whether the Stationery Office gives special consideration to the employment needs of an area? Cannot the Department properly use the recently nationalised printing firm in Edinburgh?

I will certainly take that into account and discuss it with my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary.

Can we take it that the Post Office does not mind where the telephone directories are printed provided that it gets a competitive price for them and that, therefore, the Post Office would be quite happy, if the Stationery Office so decided, to have the directories printed in Scotland?

All that we at the Post Office want are efficiently produced directories. That is our main consideration. As I have already said, this is a matter for my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary. Obviously, the directories can be produced more economically in one main plant, but I will draw to my hon. Friend's attention the point that the hon. Member has made.

Can my hon. Friend say where Northern Ireland telephone directories are printed?

Not without notice.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the amount of damage to telephone installations and equipment caused by the very severe weather.

Although the hard winter has caused extensive damage to telephone plant in many parts of the country, and blocked roads have often delayed and hampered repair work, the damage has been much less than might have been feared.

May I also give to the employees, both men and women, in these services the greatest credit for the way in which they carried out their duties during the recent arctic weather? Will the Postmaster-General make certain that the capital projects of his Department are not hindered or prevented even if the costs are greater than he expects?

I am grateful for what the hon. Member said at the start of his supplementary question. In reply to his question, the answer is "Yes".

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will announce an early reduction in telephone charges.

No, Sir.

In view of the fact that last year the Department issued a leaflet called Value for Money, asserting that telephone subscribers were getting their service at cost price, and as the telephone service has made a profit of £14 million this year, is it not time that the Postmaster-General withdrew that leaflet or reduced the charges?

I have forgotten the pamphlet to which the hon. Member refers. There are, however, two factors which make reductions impracticable at present. One is the need for much higher Post Office capital investment, and the other is the fact that Post Office surpluses are much less buoyant than they were.

asked the Postmaster-General what notice was given to the companies establishing factories at Rugeley under overspill plan arrangements, that they would not be included within the Birmingham cheap telephone call area.

None, Sir. There has been no recent change in the charge for calls between Rugeley and. Birmingham.

Will the right hon. Gentleman direct his attention to the apparent lack of consultation between his Department and the overspill "decanting" authorities of the Government-sponsored overspill plan, since these firms are now at a disadvantage as regards their telephone calls, are threatened with increased charges and, in any event, having been forced to move, have found great difficulty in getting lines at all?

As the hon. Gentleman knows better than I do, Rugeley is about 20 miles from Birmingham and calls between the two places have always been charged at the rate of 1s. for three minutes during the day. The question of giving notice to a firm moving out about telephone charges is hardly a matter for me, but I am willing to discuss this with my right hon. Friends the President of the Board of Trade and the Minister of Housing and Local Government. Meanwhile, we hope to have S.T.D. at Rugeley within two years, and that should help generally.

If that is so, then it will be contrary to everyone else's experience. I defy the right hon. Gentleman to say that S.T.D. has resulted in reduced telephone bills for most people.

I have no doubt that it has had the effect of reducing charges on telephone bills for business firms throughout the country.

Will my right hon. Friend say how he proposes to "decant" overspill?

I think that that was the question put by the hon. Member for Lichfield and Tamworth (Mr. Snow).

asked the Postmaster-General whether doctors and midwives are exempted from the system of sharing telephone lines.

Since 1948 doctors have been under an obligation to share their telephone lines to their private houses if they do not practise there. They are not required to share the telephone lines at their surgeries or in cases where the surgery and residence are on the same premises and served by the same line. Telephones to the homes of midwives are usually provided at the residence rate and are subject to the sharing requirement. I should, however, wish to make it clear that doctors and midwives are asked to share their telephone service only where there is no other means of providing service for a new applicant.

Will the right hon. Gentleman look into this again, because the present position is at variance with that Answer? Will he bear in mind that this is not a matter of seeking a privilege for these professional people but is a necessary safeguard to the privacy of their patients?

I appreciate that point of view. This is a difficult matter, especially as it affects midwives rather than doctors. I should be perfectly willing to discuss it with the hon. Gentleman and to look at it again.

Is there a standard list of people exempted from the necessity of having to share their telephone lines? If there is, would the right hon. Gentleman publish it in HANSARD so that we could deal with local inquiries and complaints on this subject?

I will certainly consider that suggestion.

On a point of order. We have reached only Question No. 31. Would it not be in order subsequently to have the Prime Minister's Questions put back to at least Question No. 40 before we are interrupted?

Do not let us argue those things now. We only lose time.

asked the Postmaster-General how many would-be subscribers are on the waiting list for telephones in the Coventry area; and how many have been on the waiting list for more than six months.

At the beginning of the year there were 130 people on the waiting list for telephones in the Coventry area; 43 had been waiting more than six months. In addition there were 512 applications for telephones under inquiry or being met.

Can my right hon. Friend say when it is likely that the waiting list in the Coventry area will be reduced? It has been at this tremendously high figure for some considerable time.

In fact the telephone waiting list was 240 in June last year and at the end of last year it had fallen to 130, and is still falling.

asked the Postmaster-General how much money his Department is saving by rendering accounts to telephone users four times a year instead of twice yearly.

When quarterly accounting is in full operation next year, I estimate that the change will save about £l½ million a year in interest charges; but this will be approximately offset by the extra cost of sending four annual bills instead of two.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that it will be a great inconvenience to many subscribers to have to pay four times a year by cheque? If he is not making any saving, cannot he give subscribers the choice of paying either half-yearly or quarterly?

We came to the decision to go over to quarterly instead of half-yearly accountancy—after making a great deal of public inquiry—on the ground that it would be much more popular with the public.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps he proposes to take to improve the transport of mail to and from Weston-super-Mare.

My hon. Friend has been good enough to give me details of complaints of delay made by firms in Weston-super-Mare. Our investigations so far do not suggest that the delays, which I regret, are due to inadequacy of the transport facilities to and from Weston-super-Mare. I am continuing my inquiries and shall be writing to my hon. Friend shortly.

Will my hon. Friend accept my congratulations on his appointment and my thanks for the researches into this problem which he and his predecessor have undertaken for some time, but will he accept, also, my concern that it seems impossible to locate where the hold-ups are? They are very persistent and, in some cases, quite a long delay is involved.

I am happy to accept the first two points which my hon. Friend makes in his supplementary question. I agree that there are problems here. We hope that our investigations will bring the solution to light.

asked the Postmaster-General how many Post Office advisory committees exist; and what is their function.

There are 196 local Post Office advisory committees. Primarily, their function is to provide a channel for a two-way exchange of views and information on Post Office policies and services. This is effectively done and my right hon. Friend much appreciates the spirit of public service shown by those who serve on these committees.

Since there seems to be a large number of people rendering the country useful service on these bodies, would it be possible to give greater publicity to them and give the country information about them and their work?

A good deal of publicity is given to the advisory committees. I will look at any ways we can find to give more publicity to the very valuable service which they can perform.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the one in my constituency seems to meet once between Coronations? Can he do anything to ensure that advisory committees meet at least once a year?

I do not mow about the particular committee of which the hon. Gentleman speaks. As I understand it, an advisory committee meets, normally, far more often than that. I will look into the case he mentions.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House on how many occasions the Post Office Advisory Council itself has met during the last twelve months?

I cannot answer that without notice, but I will look into it.

asked the Postmaster-General when work will begin on the erection of the Crown Post Office at Shotts

I regret that it is not yet possible to give a starting date for the building of this office, because of the quantity of more urgent building work already programmed.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that there is very high unemployment in this area and that even the provision of a few jobs in the building of such a post office would be a help and would be welcomed? Does the Postmaster-General take into account the help which this would be in lowering unemployment as some other Ministers do when they are considering what projects should go ahead?

Naturally, that point is taken into account, but we must also take into account the fact that the help that it would give in a high unemployment area is very marginal indeed. However, in this case, I will certainly take particular note of the point which the hon. Lady has made.

Even though the unemployment may be marginal, is not the hon. Gentleman aware that employment for two or three or ten unemployed men would be of very great help to those who get the work in an area where most unemployed are long-term unemployed?

We are currently examining how we can in our minor works programme pay particular attention to areas in which such projects arise, and I hope that from this we shall be able to make a little progress.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) what his estimate is of the proportion of the population in the Greater London area who do not receive their main postal delivery before 8.30 a.m.;

At a very rough estimate, about one-third of the population in the Greater London area do not receive their main postal delivery before 8.30 a.m. To ensure completion of the first delivery by 9 a.m. in all large towns and cities would involve heavy expenditure which my right hon. Friend does not feel would be justified.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that the vast majority of the working population leaves home before 8.30 in the morning and therefore people cannot possibly deal with their mail until the evening? Will he confirm that before the war there was a postal delivery before 8 a.m.? Is it not time that something was done to bring things up to date?

The whole object of the exercise is to try to make certain that mail is delivered at the most convenient time to the customer, but obviously we have to take into account the arrangements which we must make for postmen, the movement of mails and the fact that one cannot deliver earlier without arranging that mails can be sorted earlier, which would involve a good deal of additional expenditure. We therefore believe that our aim, which, in the main, is kept, is fair and maintains a reasonable balance between the staff of the Post Office, facilities and the customer.

asked the Postmaster-General what recent steps he has taken to ensure that the percentage of juveniles aged 15 to 18 years attending day release classes in his Department now approaches more closely to the percentage obtaining in the other civil Departments.

The percentage of attendance at the November, 1962, review was 68 per cent., an increase of 3 per cent. over 1961. We keep this matter under regular review and I am satisfied that every possible encouragement is given to staff to attend day release classes.

There must be some difficulties here. What are they? Are the difficulties with the middle management grades who are unenthusiastic about this? Why cannot the Post Office get the percentage up to, say, 80 per cent., as some other Departments do?

Naturally, we are doing everything we can to get all our staff on this basis. Of course, attendance at vocational classes is already compulsory for engineering youths, but I am not satisfied that it would be justifiable in present conditions to extend compulsory attendance to the non-vocational classes.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will reconsider his decision not to allow a sub-post office in the Merritts Hill area of Northfield, Birmingham, in view of the hilly nature of the locality and of the petition from local residents.

We have looked into this question again; but I am afraid that we should not be justified in incurring the expense of adding to the three sub-post offices already in this area.

Have not the requirements been relaxed recently in the sense that sub-post offices can be nearer to each other than they used to be? In view of the great hardship for elderly and infirm people in this particularly hilly locality, cannot something be done about this matter? Would the hon. Gentleman be willing to allow one of the new shops in this area to have a licence for stamps, postal orders and so on and see how we get on with that and then, perhaps, extend the facility later?

We will certainly consider the hon. Gentleman's suggestion about the sale of stamps, However, we believe that the three existing sub-post offices perform a reasonable service, particularly when one takes into account the fact that there is a good bus service to and from the post office at Aliens Cross.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that tenants of property owned by his Department in Horseferry Road, S.W.1, who have been given notice to quit, will have difficulty in finding other suitable accommodation; and what action he proposes to take.

The proposed building in Horseferry Road is intended to replace the old sorting office in Howick Place which is now seriously inadequate for its purpose. I regret that it will be necessary for the tenants to move to make way for this development, but they have known for some time that the site is required in December for the building of a large new sorting office. I propose to terminate the business tenancies under the Landlord and Tenant Act, 1954, and these tenants will qualify for the statutory compensation. My agents are in touch with the residential tenants and I will see that they are given all possible help.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the compensation being offered to the residential tenants is not such as will enable them to find anywhere else to live? Is there not other land in their neighbourhood belonging to the Post Office where the new post office could be built?

I understand that the answer to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is "No". I have made inquiries on that point. In regard to the first and, perhaps, more substantial point, I should like to make it clear that, despite Crown exemption, we shall treat the residential tenants as controlled tenants under the Rent Act. They will not be evicted unless they are offered and refuse comparable accommodation. I am willing to consider any reasonable proposal to see that they do not suffer.

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware of the deterioration in the letter post and parcel post between the North-West and other parts of England since the nineteen-thirties; and what action he is taking to improve the service.

While we do not provide deliveries and collections on the same scale as in the nineteen-thirties, we still try to provide services which meet the needs of the country generally. My right hon. Friend agrees that the parcel post service is not as good as it should be at present and we are making strenuous efforts in co-operation with the railways to improve it. If my hon. Friend will let me know of any particular difficulty he may be having at present, I will gladly look into the matter.

While I thank my hon. Friend for that Answer as far as it goes, is he aware that in many villages in the north-west of England, in Cumberland and Westmorland, it is necessary to post a letter by about 2 p.m. on Fridays in order to ensure that it reaches London by first post the following Monday? That is no exaggeration, and applies to other services in proportion. I am sure that he does not consider that satisfactory. Therefore, will he treat this as an urgent matter and look into it again?

We will certainly look into it again, but obviously there are problems, particularly during the weekend. We have certain habits throughout the country which have changed between the 1930s and now. I think that we must accept these conditions and try to work with them.

In case I do not get another opportunity, may I tell the Assistant Postmaster-General how pleased we are with the way in which he has faced his Ministerial ordeal in dealing with Questions for the first time?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As the hon. Member for Manchester, Openshaw (Mr. W. R. Williams) has started to make a speech on this Question, which refers specifically to the north-weslt of England, may I ask whether other hon. Members also may make general speeches on the subject?

The Question refers to

"the north-west and other parts of England"

Further to that point of order. The question of delay in postal services, especially parcel post, is directly associated with the difficulties on the railways. Hence my supplementary question.

The report will be issued within two or three weeks. I will certainly take into account the points that the hon. Member has made.

Does not my hon. Friend know that it is not only the North-West which suffers delays? It is obvious in many places at the weekend that posting after midday on Friday means that letters are not delivered before the third day.

Yes. Coming from Devon, I know that this is a widespread problem. Naturally, it has its greatest impact in the rural areas at the weekend.

asked the Postmaster-General which events have been marked by special issues of stamps in the last four years.

In 1960, the tercentenary of the establishment of the General Letter Office, and the first anniversary of the Conference of European Postal and Telecommunications Administrations were marked by special issues.

As the majority of those commemorative issues were for what might be described as postal matters only, will not my hon. Friend consider the basis on which these choices are made? Does he not consider that they should be made on matters of national importance and interest rather than purely parochial matters affecting the Post Office?

We will certainly consider that. I draw my hon. Friend's attention, however, to the statement made by my right hon. Friend in December concerning the stamps which are to be issued this year, from which will be seen the wide nature of the issues, including the Freedom from Hunger Campaign, National Nature Week, the International Lifeboat Conference and the Red Cross Centenary Congress, to name but a few.

Can we be assured by that reply that the policy has changed and that these issues will in future be made on a much wider basis?

Yes. The policy has certainly become more liberal—with, of course, a small "1".

Is not the appearance of a Tory working man on the Front Bench speaking for the Post Office an occasion which should be marked by a special postage stamp?

asked the Postmaster-General where he proposes to site the new Post Office to be built in Airdrie; and if he will give the starting date of this new project.

My right hon. Friend is sorry that this matter is not yet definitely settled, but we hope that it will be soon. I will write to the hon. Member as soon as I can.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the present premises are utterly inadequate, while 10 per cent. of the insured population is unemployed in the locality, among them building craftsmen and labourers? Will he do his utmost to expedite the start of this new building?

Yes. I agree that the conditions in the present office are far from satisfactory. The main problem has been that of finding the right site. We hope that we have now found it, and negotiations are about to be opened. We hope that things will move pretty fast from now on.

asked the Postmaster-General why he is negotiating to rent more office accommodation in High Holborn; and if he will make a statement.

I am negotiating a lease of 100–110, High Holborn. I have bad to increase my headquarters staff to cope with new work, for example in the field of satellite communications and broadcasting services, and I need more office space preferably close to the Departmental Headquarters.

Does the right hon. Gentleman know that the Treasury two or three weeks ago appointed a sub-committee to consider the dispersal of Government offices from central London? Is it not, therefore, inexcusable that the right hon. Gentleman should take, almost next door to State House—on which the Government are spending £6,000 a week in rent—another huge office where civil servants can do work which can be done just as well outside central London? Do satellites have to be in central London?

It is not inexcusable at all. We have been into the economic and financial aspects of the move with great care. This is a move of executive staffs who are required to be near the G.P.O. headquarters. In terms of transport savings and labour saving, I am convinced that it is the right move. The Post Office has taken the initiative in the dispersal of staffs from London. We have two other moves in hand—one of 1,600 people of the Accountant-General's Department to Chesterfield and 2,000 people of the Savings Certificate Division to Durham.

As severe restrictions are to be put on private firms as a result of the new measures of the Ministry of Housing and Local Government, is my right hon. Friend aware that Government Departments themselves must set a high example and "decant" themselves out of London? Is he further aware that the Post Office would get into a great deal of trouble if it sought to make itself an exception to the rule?

I wholly agree with my hon. Friend, and I have indicated that we hope to move between 3,000 and 4,000 Post Office staff, at present working in London, during the next few years. But the people at the new offices in High Holborn simply have to be close to headquarters because of the nature of their work.

Does my right hon. Friend's original reply indicate that the Post Office is actively engaged with a British communications satellite?

The Post Office has been actively engaged on the examination of a satellite communications system for two years, and I am sure that it will continue to play a major part in the possibilities of such a system.

Is there any reason why, if he is moving people out of London, my right hon. Friend should not send them to areas such as Brighton and Hove, where they can get quickly by train and where there is considerable unemployment?

Order. We cannot go all round the possible places on this Question.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will arrange, in future, for reminders about the renewal of television or sound wireless licences sent out by his Department to state the charge for these licences.

The charges for television or sound wireless licences are, I think, pretty widely known and are stated on the first reminders addressed to the public. I do not think it is necessary to repeat the information subsequently.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that it is not quite illogical to put it on the first reminder and not on the second and third reminders? Does he assume that all people keep the first reminder if they do not answer it? Surely, if the public are to be sent these printed notices, they should be self-explanatory in all cases and not merely in some.

I should have thought that 99½ per cent. of the public knew very well that the fee for a television licence was £4 and for sound radio £1.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will introduce legislation in order to limit the number of times television networks may show the same film.

I sympathise with the intention of the hon. Gentleman's Question and I propose to draw the attention of the broadcasting organisations to the matter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that reply will be warmly welcomed because, after all, the cost of television to viewers is considerable? When he draws the attention of the television authorities to this matter, will he also give them a list of some of the films from whose repeated showings we have suffered so often and include the famous one, "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon"? That film has been shown so often that the ribbon is now faded. Will he try to protect viewers from this type of thing?

I am told that the I.T.A. repeats about 38 per cent. of feature films, while the B.B.C. does not keep exact statistical information on this; but I understand the percentage is about the same. However, the B.B.C. has shown "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" four times, and "The African Queen" seems to crop up quite regularly. It is fair to add that many middle-aged people have a nostalgia for these things, although I am not one of them.

Will the right hon. Gentleman point out to these two bodies that even these films are better than some of the things from the intellectual beatniks on both channels?

asked the Postmaster-General if, under Section 15 (4) of the Licence and Agreement, he will require the British Broadcasting Corporation to refrain from sending broadcasts by illegal immigrants.

asked the Postmaster-General why he did not use his powers under Section 15 (4) of the Licence and Agreement to require the British Broadcasting Corporation to refrain from including the interview with Monsieur Bidault in the programme, "Panorama", on Monday, 4th March; and what machinery he possesses for noting advertisements on the air and in the Press about forthcoming programmes in regard to cosideration of the exercise of his powers under Section 15 (4).

I am not prepared to issue a direction under Section 15 (4) to the B.B.C. I did not consider the use of my powers under this Section in the instance referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Sir W. Teeling). Such a direction would have infringed the independence of the B.B.C. in matters of programming. There is no machinery within the Post Office for the checking of forthcoming programmes.

If it is correct to say that M. Bidault is an illegal immigrant, is it not a fact that it was a grave error of judgment to allow him to broadcast in "Panorama"? Is it not also the case that if he was an illegal immigrant this broadcast was conniving at a breach of the law, and that this is not only a very serious legal matter but a grave error of judgment?

Whether or not M. Bidault is an illegal immigrant is not a matter for me. The power which I have under Section 15 (4) of the Licence and Agreement is a reserve power and has always been so regarded by my predecessors and myself. Since the beginning of 1962 I have been asked to exercise this power to ban programmes presenting violence, to ban politically biassed programmes, to ban broadcasts to schools on the Common Market, to ban satirical programmes—and others. I do not want to be a censor of the B.B.C. or of the I.T.A.

Why was it that the Foreign Office approached the B.B.C. and did not approach the Postmaster-General? Is my right hon. Friend quite certain that his public relations department is sufficiently in touch with other public relations departments in order to make them understand that he is responsible for anything that should be done with the B.B.C.?

Order. The second part of that Question is out of order. The Postmaster-General cannot answer for the activities of the Foreign Office.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that on balance we on this side of the House approve his endorsement of the view he has accepted with regard to the independence of the B.B.C. in this matter? However, having regard to the importance of this subject, can he say whether the B.B.C. consulted him in the first place?

As I think the House knows, the Government were aware of this intended broadcast. I think, therefore, it must be assumed that Members of the Government were aware of it.

Is it not better to err on the side of freedom rather than on the side of censorship?

Except on the working man.

While not approving the views or activities of M. Bidault, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, if at any time in the future General de Gaulle finds himself in this country under similar circumstances, he might not well be offered the same facility?

Might that not be hypothetical in its entirety?

Does the Postmaster-General consider it to be in the national interest that the B.B.C. should be allowed to contribute from public funds to a person and an organisation who have been engaged in indiscriminate murder, who are plotting the assassination of French political leaders and the overthrow of the French Government by violence and the establishment of a Fascist military dictatorship in a friendly country?

It is a matter of judgment, but for my part I always lean in the direction of allowing independence to the broadcasting authorities, and I think that that is right.

Is it not a grave error that the B.B.C. should have connived at this breach of the law?

While we agree with the general proposition that the B.B.C. should be left independent, may I probe what the right hon. Gentleman has said about the Government being aware that this programme was to be screened? Am I right in taking it that the B.B.C. consulted the Government and that the Government themselves are to some extent implicated, at any rate in the timing of the programme? This seems to be a quite different question from that of the independence of the B.B.C.

I think it is already clear to the House that the Government were informed by B.B.C. of its intentions.

asked the Postmaster-General when he will take action on paragraph 76 of Command Paper No. 1770, which deals with the need for public reaction to be tested before deciding whether to embark on local sound broadcasting.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the Government's conclusion, recorded in the second White Paper on broadcasting, that local sound broadcasting should not command a high priority in the allocation of national resources. There has been very little public reaction on local sound broadcasting since the issue of the White Papers.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that the only way to test public reaction would be to allow local sound broadcasting companies to operate for a trial period?

That would be one way, but I am bound to say that since the publication of the White Paper there has been precious little evidence of any public demand for these services.

asked the Prime Minister whether the public speech on leasehold and rents made by the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs at his Press conference in Cardiff on Saturday, 23rd February, 1963, represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

My right hon. Friend did not make a speech on the occasion to which the hon. Member refers. He answered questions from the Press.

Is the Prime Minister aware that he is singularly ill-informed and that the Minister made several comments concerning leasehold and high rents? Does he approve of the statement of the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs rejecting the proposal which my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition had made the night before for a measure of leasehold enfranchisement, and does he approve his right hon. Friend's statement approving the high rents now being charged because of the 1957 Rent Act?

I understand that my right hon. Friend answered a number of questions and I am sure that in doing so he stated Government policy.

Will the Prime Minister tell me whether he approves of the complete rejection of any measure of leasehold enfranchisement?

Whether that question was among the questions I am not fully informed, but I am quite sure that the statement made by my right hon. Friend was a statement of Government policy.

Since the Prime Minister has now twice said that what the right hon. Gentleman said was Government policy on leasehold reform, would the Prime Minister tell us what Government policy is for ending the leasehold system?

I understand that the question of possible evictions was raised and that my right hon. Friend pointed out that, except where there were development possibilities, lessees were amply protected under the 1954 legislation.

Would my right hon. Friend use any influence which he may have with the Leader of the Opposition and ask him to persuade the four Socialist-controlled councils in the immediate vicinity of Cardiff which have consistently refused to sell freeholds to sitting leasehold occupiers⤔[Interruption.]

I will do what I can through the usual channels.

Is not the Prime Minister aware that when my Leasehold Bill was before the House recently it was a Cabinet decision not to do anything to help these people and not to deal with the point raised by the hon. Member for Cardiff, North (Mr. Box) which was covered by my Bill?

That is rather wider than the original Question.

asked the Prime Minister what reply be has sent to the letter addressed to him by Mr. Hugh Brock offering his assistance in the compilation of a simple scientifically accurate account of the probable effects of a thermonuclear attack on Great Britain.

I have declined Mr. Brock's offer.

If he has declined this offer from Mr. Brock, will the Prime Minister say whether he will make some other account available to the public in accordance with the undertaking given in the Statement on Defence—that the Government have always recognised the importance of informing the public about the effects of thermo-nuclear weapons?

I do not think there is any doubt in anybody's mind about what would be the terrible effect, in this or any other country, of nuclear war. The whole purpose of all national policies is surely to try to avert such a war.

Why do the Government publish a leaflet which says that bicarbonate of soda and aspirin are specifics against H-bomb attack?

If the hon. Member is trying to denigrate the Civil Defence service, he is making a mistake, because, however terrible the situation might be, it is surely our duty to take whatever possible steps can be taken to mitigate it.

asked the Prime Minister what decision has been taken with regard to the regulations governing the wearing by Her Majesty's subjects of decorations awarded to them by foreign States.

I do not propose to suggest to my noble Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs that he should recommend that any change should be made in the Regulations.

May I first declare that I have no interest in the matter? Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there is a strong feeling that while it is understandable that permission to accept such honours may be withheld, having given permission it is illogical to say that they may not be worn?

Since my hon. Friend raised this I have looked into the question, and I find it to be rather more complex than I think he realises. I feel that any changes would be likely to give rise to more difficulties, and therefore I think that it would be better to stick to the present regulations.

Has not the Prime Minister an interest in the matter? Is not he the bearer of the Tunisian Order of Chastity, Fourth Class? May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman intends to polish it up before the next General Election?

I regret to inform the House that although this Order was offered to me by the Bey of Tunis after the Battle of Tunis I was not permitted to accept it. Only generals and admirals were able to do so.

Can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that there is no truth in the rumour that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is to be awarded the Order of the Golden Fleece after the Budget?

Is the Prime Minister aware that if he is not "chased" now we hope he will be at the election?

asked the Prime Minister which Government Departments are concerned with the problem of the dangers to health, including cancer, caused by cigarette smoking, and with research into this subject and the provision of information and publicity about it.

Primarily the Health and Education Departments and, in regard to research, the Medical Research Council.

On research, is the Prime Minister aware that knowledge of smoking habits at the moment is almost exclusively available only from the tobacco trade? The Council for Children's Welfare is at the moment trying to beg money from the Gulbenkian Foundation to finance research into effective ways of explaining the hazards of cigarette smoking to young people because a penny in Government money is not forthcoming.

With regard to the first part of that supplementary question, a good deal of this research is being undertaken by the Medical Research Council. With regard to the second part, I understand that in addition to all the other methods in the schools and elsewhere, by means of posters, and so on, an official colour film has just been com- pleted and copies will be available to schools and other bodies connected with the campaign.

Has a Cabinet decision been taken to ignore the recommendation by the Royal College of Physicians exactly a year ago that all cigarette advertising should be prohibited on television? If so, why?

I should like notice of that question.

Having mentioned posters, is the Prime Minister aware that the poster advertising interests are in effect exercising a censorship over Government posters dealing with the connection between smoking and lung cancer? What is the right hon. Gentleman doing to stop this interference with the good work which the Ministry of Health is trying to do in this matter?

I understand that that question is now under discussion between Departments.

Would the Government consider taking some time on commercial television to warn viewers against the cigarette commercials?

I shall consider that, but I cannot promise that it will be done.

asked the Prime Minister (1) if he intends to take the necessary steps for raising the status of the Minister of Defence to that of one of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State, and to designate him as such;

I recognise that these and other important aspects of the reorganisation, the broad principles of which were announced by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence on 4th March, are of great interest to my hon. Friend—and, indeed, to the House and the general public. I hope that when we have worked out all the details of this scheme later in the summer, it will be found to deal satisfactorily with all these issues.

In the meantime, can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that he does not intend to leave Admiralty House, except, of course, to return to No. 10 Downing Street?

I hope to return to No. 10 as soon as it is ready.

The Prime Minister will be aware that there are considerable constitutional matters involved in the announcement of the Minister of Defence the other day and, therefore, the House will want full information, I should imagine, in the shape of a White Paper or otherwise before we can come to a decision.

The purpose was to raise discussions on general principles and later to put specific proposals to the House. A White Paper would probably he the most convenient method.

Is Civil Defence to be placed under the Minister of Defence?

No, Sir. I cannot 1say that at the moment.

asked the Prime Minister what negotiations he has now had with Governments of developing countries on additional aid from under-utilised resources in north-east England, Merseyside, south-west England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

asked the Prime Minister what negotiations have now taken place with Governments of developing countries on additional aid from under-utilised resources in northeast England, Merseyside, and Scotland.

asked the Prime Minister what discussions he has now had with Governments of developing countries on additional aid from under-utilised resources in Scotland and northeast England.

Negotiations on additional aid from spare productive capacity are proceeding with a number of Governments. An agreement was signed yesterday with the Government of Ghana for a loan of £2,164,000 odd for the purchase of two cargo ships to be built on the North-East Coast. It would not be right for me to give details of other negotiations while they are still proceeding.

Can we be assured that the sum of £10 million mentioned in this connection on 18th December by the Deputy Prime Minister in answer to a Question will be completely provided?

As the hon. Gentleman will understand, these negotiations are quite complicated, and very often of a technical character, but it is our intention to try to bring them to a successful conclusion.

Would not the Prime Minister agree that the unemployment situation and the state of sterling today point to the need for much more vigorous action to increase exports? Would he consider offering considerably larger loans to finance exports on condition that 10 per cent. to 20 per cent. is paid for immediately by the return of overseas holdings of sterling?

Action is being taken on a very wide field, and further action will be taken. These loans are by way of aid and are guaranteed by the guarantee procedure. Perhaps any further questions on this might be addressed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Even if the Prime Minister cannot give specific details of the negotiations, can he at least give an assurance that some of these negotiations are concerned with work which will benefit industry in Scotland?

Yes, Sir. One has been announced and others are under discussion.

May I ask my right hon. Friend to accept my congratulations.—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Indeed, is my right hon. Friend aware that I always congratulate him when I think he has done well for the North-East Coast?

I am very grateful for that, and I shall look forward to a whole series of congratulations.

Will my right hon. Friend make it clear to the House and to the country that this additional aid to under-developed countries can only come out of our profits and not out of our losses and that we can only send exports to these countries if they are paid for?

Broadly speaking, they must be supported by a good balance of payments situation which comes from an excess of exports over imports, including invisible exports. These loans are made under Section 3 of the Export Guarantees Act.