asked the Minister of Health what allocation for expenditure on minor works and maintenance, respectively, has been made for the coming financial year to the group management committtees in respect of hospitals in Monmouthshire; and how this compares with the allocation for the previous financial year.

Allocations are not made for individual items of revenue expenditure. The board has so far approved expenditure of £6,250 next year, compared with £4,006 this year, on capital works costing under £3,000.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that although the increased figure will be received with much approval by those who are interested in hospital services in Monmouthshire, in view of the fact that we have so many old-established hospitals in Monmouthshire and shall have to wait a considerable time before the consideration of the new base hospitals, much capital expenditure is needed in respect of the old-established hospitals?

Yes. I am sure that considerations of that kind are very much in the mind of the regional hospital board, and it has certain reserves.

asked the Minister of Health what was the estimated life, at the time of their construction, of the huts now used as geriatric wards at St. John's Hospital, Keighley.

No such estimate can be traced.

Is my hon. Friend aware that these huts were erected as a temporary provision during the war? Does not he agree that they should be replaced as soon as possible?

There is no reason why any definite term should be given to the life of buildings of this type, provided that they have been properly erected and maintained. Since the appointed day a modern heating system has been installed. Nevertheless, I agree with my hon. Friend that in a matter of this kind we must look to the future, and I am writing to him.

asked the Minister of Health how long it is intended to use as geriatric wards the huts at St. John's Hospital, Keighley.

Until replaced in a new district general hospital.

Yes, but can my hon. Friend tell me when this will be?

I would prefer my hon. Friend to wait until he has seen my letter.

asked the Minister of Health if he is satisfied that the number of hospital beds for maternity cases in Wolverhampton is adequate; and if he will make a statement on the steps he is taking to improve the situation.

No, Sir; plans are well advanced for a new maternity unit of 146 beds at New Cross. Meanwhile, 13 more beds were opened last year at the Women's Hospital, and additional delivery rooms will shortly be provided there.

Do I take it that these are all maternity beds?

indicated assent.

asked the Minister of Health what economies in pocket money for patients, cinema shows and the use of butter have been carried out at Denbigh Hospital during the last six months.

None, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that one trade union, which is responsible for a large number of employees in the hospital service, has conducted an investigation into the implied allegations in my Question and that its findings do not correspond with what he has said?

I am sorry about that, but my Answer is correct.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that on 31st December, 1962, there were 29 sub-normal and severely sub-normal children and young persons in the County Borough of Derby and in the Parliamentary constituency of Derby, South, who were in need of admission to hospital, that five of them had been on the waiting list for more than 9½ years, two others for more than 8 years, and ten others for periods varying from 4 to 8 years; how many of these children and young persons have since been admitted to hospital; and whether he will make a statement about those still remaining on the waiting list.

My information is twenty-eight, two, three and eleven respectively; nine have since been admitted; the list is now eighteen, including ten non-urgent.

Is it a fact that on 31st December 22 cases were urgent? Is the Minister aware that in recent months one mother has died from the strain of looking after her handicapped child and other children and one handicapped child has been killed?

I have not those facts, but I will take note of them if the right hon. Member will send me the evidence. I think it is a matter for satisfaction that the waiting list has been almost halved in the last three months. This shows the contribution which the large number of additional beds now being opened in the Sheffield area is making to a solution of the problem.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are still many children who have been on the waiting list for more than four years? One of my constituents, Janet Mills, has been on the waiting list for twelve years and there is no hope of her admission to hospital at present, her father is informed. Is it not a very grave matter that there should be these immensely long waiting times?

I should make it clear that these are not in the ordinary sense of the term hospital waiting lists. They are lists from local authorities. The girl to whom the right hon. Member referred was only recently transferred to the urgent part of the list.

asked the Minister of Health when the first part of the project for Boston Hospital will go out to tender.

1965.

We have been waiting rather a long time for this hospital—I think it was mooted eight years ago. Can my right hon. Friend be a little more specific? Can he say whether it is early in 1965, or when will it be?

As early as I can make it in 1965, but I should not like to be more specific at this stage. As my hon. Friend knows, I have been in touch with him about this matter for a long time. The problem which arose was that the design which resulted from a competition had to be almost completely redrawn. In the course of that it was decided to increase both the size of the hospital and the facilities. So I hope that Boston will get a better and larger hospital, although somewhat later.

asked the Minister of Health when he received a deputation from the appropriate staff side of the Whitley Council on hospital staffing and allied matters; what was the purpose of their visit; and when he will make a statement on the action he proposes to take.

Last Friday; I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of the agreed statement issued after the meeting.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that agreed statements do not get one anywhere? Would he not bear in mind that all these deputations that have been to the Minister have been on two or three specific points? When is he to make a full statement and take action on the pressures being brought by these deputations so that certain definite decisions will flow from them?

I do not share my hon. Friend's objection to agreed statements. In fact, I think that agreed statements are sometimes preferable to disagreed statements. I have been able to show those who came to see me on this question that hospital authorities will, during this financial year, have additional spending money and that they are getting what help I can give them in laying that out smoothly and effectively.

asked the Minister of Health what progress is being made with plans to extend and improve the hospital services in North Staffordshire.

Four of the main schemes comprised in the plan for a major district general hospital at Stoke are now in progress or at an advanced stage of preparation.

Will the hon. Gentleman say what is meant by "in progress"? Is he aware of complaints on the spot that in fact very little progress has been made, although these plans were agreed a long time ago? Will he be a little more specific about how much progress has been made?

Yes. There are four main schemes for North Staffordshire, including an accident unit with operating theatre suites and casualty wards at the North Staffordshire Royal Infirmary. Completion is expected in the spring of 1964. There is a central out-patients department to serve hospitals at Stoke; tenders are due on 19th April. A new maternity unit, a boiler house and staff accommodation at the City General Hospital; working drawings are in preparation and are expected to be completed in the autumn. Building work will start in early 1964. For neuro-surgical and neurological wards in the North Staffordshire Royal Infirmary, working drawings are now being examined in the department with a view to authorising the board to go to tender.

asked the Minister of Health what was the total cost to the National Health Service of the home-to-hospital travelling expenses of part-time consultants and senior hospital medical and dental officers, for each year since 31st December, 1959.

I regret this information is not available.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that he increasingly gives me answers like that? In view of the fact that both the Royal Commission and the Kindersley Committee said that these payments are an anomaly, will not he take steps to obtain the information and to give it to the House? Will not he seek to remove this anomaly?

No, Sir. The Royal Commission recommended that the continued payment of these expenses to those whose rights had been reserved should be reviewed in due course by the Review Body. The Review Body says in its Report,

"We agree with the Royal Commission that these payments are anomalous but we note that they are confined to those who were receiving them on 31st December, 1959 and that they will die out gradually in any event. We see no reason at the moment to recommend any alteration in these arrangements."

It is costing the taxpayer money. If we recognise that there is an anomaly, is it not right to find the information? Is not this a dereliction of duty on the part of the Minister in not obtaining this information and giving it to us?

There is no question of dereliction of duty on the part of the Ministry. The hon. Member should know, and I am surprised that he does not know, that this was part of an agreement reached with the profession.

asked the Minister of Health how far the waiting period has been reduced for patients needing operations, particularly in the North Eastern Metropolitan Hospital Board region.

The position varies for different specialties. No general fall is observable.

Is the Minister aware that there are several cases of patients suffering from very painful afflictions who have to wait for six to nine months? Can he hold out any hope of better or earlier treatment being given to such patients?

In certain specialties there is a long back-log but overall no general fall is observable. My right hon. Friend attaches the greatest importance to the drive which hospital authorities have been asked to make to eliminate the back-log. Advice was given to hospitals on 14th March describing methods which have been found effective in reducing the back-log of cases.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that there are only six maternity beds available for the Lowestoft district with a catchment area of 60,000 population, and that this is well below the national average; and whether he will take steps to bring about an improvement.

Seven more beds are being provided at Great Yarmouth General Hospital which also serves this population, making twenty-seven in all. Plans envisage seventy-four eventually.

I thank my hon. Friend for that information. Does he realise that Great Yarmouth is quite a long way from Lowestoft and the communications are bad? Can he hold out any hope of more beds being provided at Lowestoft in the near future?

I note my hon. Friend's vigorous defence of his constituency interests. As he knows, there is long-term provision in the Hospital Plan for more maternity beds at Lowestoft. The plan is not rigid. It is revised from time to time to take account of changing circumstances.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a further investigation into the position of orthopaedic beds for the area covered by the Norwich, Lowestoft and Great Yarmouth Hospital Management Committee with a view to taking steps to bring about a rapid improvement.

I would refer my hon. Friend to my reply to him on 28th January; the additional consultant has now been appointed.

When is the additional consultant likely to take up work? Is my hon. Friend aware that East Anglia feels that it is being neglected both in this regard and in regard to the matter I raised in my previous Question? Can the East Anglian Regional Board be pushed a little to help the East Coast more than it is at the moment?

The consultant will take up his duties in May. I note what my hon. Friend said in the second part of his supplementary question. I think that what I said earlier covers that—that the Plan is not inflexible, that it is revised from time to time, and that there is no reason why full account should not be taken of the changing circumstances of the region.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the area covered by these hospitals includes a very large rural population who consider that they are entitled to far more of this type of bed in these hospitals? In view of the difficulties experienced in getting to hospital, will not the hon. Gentleman have another look at this to see if he can expedite the provision of more beds in these hospitals?

Yes.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement on the plans for increasing the number of maternity beds in north Staffordshire, with particular reference to the provision of a new maternity hospital.

Work on a new maternity unit of 173 beds at the City General Hospital is expected to start early next year.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary tell me how long it is thought it will take before it is completed?

It will take about two and a half years.

asked the Minister of Health whether people who, though so paralysed that they cannot be registered as available for work, are able to leave hospital and live at home, may receive constant attendance from the National Health Service.

I would refer my hon. Friend to my reply of 25th March to the hon. Member for St. Pancras, North (Mr. K. Robinson).

Is my right hon. Friend aware that if these terribly unfortunate people are able to go home it is much better for them and much cheaper for the State? Is it not possible to provide them with the essential constant attendance allowance?

If my hon. Friend is concerned with a money allowance, that is not a question for me; but it would be quite impracticable for the community to provide constant care and attendance outside the framework of the hospital service. This does not diminish one's admiration for the people who do live at home under great handicap.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that it is perhaps rather unsatisfactory that young people who could be at home if they received a constant attendance allowance should have to live out their lives in chronic sick hospital wards? Cannot my right hon. Friend reconsider the matter?

The number of young chronic sick is fortunately relatively very small. But I cannot believe that it could be practicable or effective for the community to provide constant care and attendance except through the hospital service.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he is taking to check the distribution of Imipramine, Marzine, and any other drugs whose use by pregnant women may lead to foetal abnormalities similar to those caused by the use of thalidomide.

Imipramine is on prescription only. A warning label is being attached to Marzine, which is under consideration by the Poisons Board.

Have any supplies of these drugs been distributed in circumstances which could lead to anything like the thalidomide tragedy? Is the Minister satisfied that there could not be a similar situation?

I should make it clear that it has not been established that either of these drugs can in fact produce these effects in the human foetus, but in general it is most desirable that in the early stages of pregnancy any drug should be taken only on medical advice.

Is the Minister aware that many drugs on some animals can bring about abnormalities in the foetus—that aspirin in big doses in mice could bring about abnormalities—but it does not follow that they would affect human beings?

Yes, sir.

Was not thalidomide distributed on medical advice?

Yes, but the evidence in regard to thalidomide is entirely different from the evidence in regard to these drugs.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will introduce legislation to provide for the control of medicines, drugs and poisons, and for such control to be vested in the Minister of Health, the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

I expect advice on this shortly from the Joint Sub-Committee on Safety of Drugs.

When the Minister has received this reply, will he bear in mind that a medicine is either quite inert and therefore useless or is potentially a poison? Will he therefore put an end to this rather absurd anomaly of allowing the Home Office to have charge of a field of activity which he himself should be supervising completely?

The hon. Member's supplementary question draws attention to one of the many difficulties in this field which makes it particularly advisable to me to await the guidance of the subcommittee.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will arrange for snow boots, capable of protecting surgical boots, to be made available to handicapped people under the National Health Service.

No, Sir.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there are no covering snow boots available in this country? Is he aware that they can be obtained from Canada? Would it not be easier for my hon. Friend to arrange for their importation so that these people in winters such as the one we have recently had should not be absolutely housebound? Why just say "No"? Why not say, "I will have a look at the matter"? Come on, get on with something.

I always say "No" with the greatest reluctance to my hon. Friend. The fact is that the shape of most surgical boots is such that normal snow boots or overshoes could not be used. My information is that surgical boots usually provide better protection than normal footwear because they are waterproof and better support is given to the ankle fitting. If my hon. Friend has any special information or a particular case she wishes to bring to my attention I shall certainly look into it.

asked the Minister of Health if he will alter the procedure for appeals against dismissal by employees of the Health Service authorities in such a manner as to ensure that the members of the appeals committee are all drawn from regions other than that in which the employee concerned was serving at the time.

No, Sir.

Whilst appreciating the financial and administrative objections to this proposal, would not my right hon. Friend agree that these appeals do not take place very often, but when they do they are matters of very great moment to those appealing? Would he also agree that the more serious the case may be the more certain it is that under the present regulations those people who are the members of these appeals committees must have heard a lot of gossip, generally one-sided, about the case in question?

I share the anxiety of my hon. and gallant Friend that in these matters justice should appear to be done as well as be done. The present rule is that no one can be on an appeals committee who has been involved in any way in the events or discussions leading to the decision which is under appeal. I think that in itself is a very big safeguard. There is the further right of representation to the regional board and to me, so I feel that there is every safeguard to the employee.

asked the Minister of Health how long he has been negotiating with the joint censorship committee of the poster advertising industry regarding its ban on his posters about smoking and lung cancer.

About four months.

While it is, of course, generally admitted that the right hon. Gentleman is not the least courageous of Her Majesty's Ministers, will he tell us how much longer he is going to put up with this nonsense? He has already described the attitude of the poster people as "silly", but now it is mischievous as well as silly. When is he going to put his foot down on this matter?

I think the matter will be put into proportion when I point out that this is only one of many posters issued by my Department to which objection has been taken and that these posters are primarily for display not on hoardings, nor are they primarily suitable for them. Nearly 1 million have already been issued, so I do not think the campaign is at all seriously suffering, but I should like to bring this matter to a conclusion in one way or another.

While discussing the matter with the poster censorship committee, will the Minister not also talk to Ministers connected with nationalised industries to make sure that they will display Government publicity of any nature, particularly on poster sites controlled by the British Transport Commission?

That is not a question for me.

asked the Minister of Health if he will send the hon. Member for Swindon a representative selection of the publicity material, including posters, devised by his Department, drawing attention to the dangers of cigarette smoking.

Yes, Sir.

Can the Minister explain why this publicity makes use of no modern media of communication? Why does he do no Press advertising? Why does he not use television commercials? Is he aware that the way in which he does this publicity gives the impression that he is not interested in the subject at all seriously?

If so, it is a false impression. This is a genuine campaign which is primarily the responsibility of the health and education authorities. I am sure that they must use the methods which make a steady and consistent appeal primarily to young people. For that purpose, posters, all kinds of educational material, and films, existing and in preparation, are used.

Why did the Minister say on an earlier Question that it was not his duty to consult his colleagues who answer here for the nationalised industries and to ensure that those great industries give maximum publicity to this most important matter?

The answer is that the result of the consultation is not for me.

Is there not a certain ambivalence between the Ministry of Health and the Treasury here, in that whilst the right hon. Gentleman wishes to discourage the sale of poison the Treasury finds it too paying?

No. This is a Government policy supported by the entire Government.

asked the Minister of Health what estimate has been made of the total amount received by general practitioners in the National Health Service from private practice income for each year since January, 1960; and what steps he proposes to take to secure a firm estimate on this matter for the next three years.

None. Sir.

Does the Minister recall that when the £2 million was removed from the general practitioners' pool the Royal Commission advised that there should be a review of the situation in case of an increase? Is he aware that the B.M.A. estimate that the figure is nearer £6 million? If this is increasing, should not the Minister do something about it?

My right hon. Friend has no reason to think that the alteration in private earnings since 1960 has been substantial in the sense indicated in the appropriate paragraph in the Royal Commission Report. The Review Body says that it agrees with this view.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the dissatisfaction in regard to the fees prescribed by the Council for the Professions Supplementary to Medicine in the operation of Section 2 (3) (c) of the Professions Supplementary to Medicine Act; and if he will introduce legislation amending this Act to provide that this body can demand a single registration fee only instead of an annual fee as at present.

Yes, Sir. Legislation would not be required.

Will my right hon. Friend be kind enough, however, to comment on this situation and to advise the profession to the effect that the medical profession has always considered that the single registration fee to the General Medical Council has been quite sufficient for registration and that it is against the liberal spirit of a profession that a compulsory annual payment should be insisted upon?

My comment would be this—that the Council is under a statutory duty to prescribe fees which will defray its reasonable expenses. If it fixed a single entry or life fee it would have to be very much higher than the initial fee which it prescribes under its present arrangements.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent the incidence of venereal disease has increased or decreased during the past five years and 25 years, respectively, and in particular among young people; and what further steps have been taken to deal with this matter.

As the answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Meanwhile, may I ask my hon. Friend whether, broadly speaking, it shows an increase or a decrease? In the information which he is kindly to send to me does he discriminate between the two major kinds of venereal disease? Does he give information about the incidence in local parts of the country and what is being done in those areas?

I am happy to say that the trend in the incidence of syphilis has been downwards, although there was a small rise between 1959 and 1961. Information about age groups is not available, but it is known that there has been a considerable increase recently in gonorrhoea among young people. I will look at the question of localities and see whether we can include that information. If not, I will write to the hon. Member to see how best we can resolve that query.

Is not one of the most disturbing features of the problem the fact that the rise in the total figures of venereal disease has been consistent for several years and is, I understand, higher than it was at the worst period of the war? If that is so, will the Minister tell us—while recognising all the difficulties—whether the Government have any change to announce in their policy or any new method of trying to control what is becoming an extremely serious social problem in relation to young people?

I cannot endorse what the hon. Member said at the beginning of his supplementary question. It would be as well to await the publication of the figures. We are actively engaged in improving the facilities for diagnosis and treatment, and a survey of V.D. clinics is being undertaken by my Department at present. Studies and inquiries are being undertaken by the British Medical Association and the British Co-operative Clinical Group of V.D. consultants. A long-term inquiry is being undertaken by the Central Council for Health Education. My right hon. Friend's Standing Medical Advisory Committee is considering the problem and is keeping it under review. The matter is actively engaging the attention of all concerned.

I do not know why this information could not have been given to me in the first place.

Complete information is not available, but the total numbers of new cases at clinics in 1937, 1957 and 1961, respectively, were for syphilis 13,234, 4,977, and 4,442 and for gonorrhoea 37,037, 24,381 and 37,107; the ages of the cases are not available; continued health education and contact tracing, and the further improvement of facilities for diagnosis and treatment.

asked the Minister of Health if he will seek to amend the National Health Service Act 1946 so that health authorities will be required to nominate men experienced in health administration for appointment to regional hospital boards.

No, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that there is provision in the Act of 1948 for consultation with local health authorities? That consultation implied that the name sent on by the local authority would be accepted by the Minister with others from whom he could select his committee. Is he aware that the Bristol authority has sent names since 1959 and that not one of them has been selected? Will he give consideration to the nomination of these men, who have had practical experience in the region, for selection for this committee?

I cannot accept that consultation conveys the obligation to appoint the persons nominated because many more are nominated than the size of the boards. In this region there are twelve local health authorities concerned, and it is not only the local health authorities whose interests require to be reflected in the composition of a board. What I can say is that the requirements and the recommendations of local health authorities are most seriously considered in working out the constitution of a board.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the complaint raised by the hon. Member for Bristol, Central (Mr. Awbery) is shared by some other parts of the country, such as the part which I represent?

That is not surprising, since there are many more local health authorities in the region than can normally find representation on the regional board at any one time.

asked the Minister of Health if he will appoint to membership of the regional hospital board men whose names have been submitted to him by the Bristol health committee.

This is not excluded.

The Bristol health authority is the largest in the South-West Region. It has sent names to him year by year. He has not selected from these men. Will he give an undertaking that some regard will be paid to the names which are forwarded to him by the largest authority in the region?

I certainly give an undertaking that I do have regard to names which are submitted to me by all authorities whom I consult, but I cannot bind myself to appoint nominees of any particular authority.

There has been persistent rejection.

asked the Minister of Health how many people were suffering from severe muscular dystrophy at the latest available date.

I regret this information is not available.

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that there are at least 50,000 of these cases in this country? Is he quite satisfied that his Department is doing everything to help these people and cater for their needs? Could the hon. Gentleman tell the House how much is being spent on research into this disease? Does he not agree that we are relying too much on moneys provided by voluntary organisations from the sale of milk bottle tops and silver paper to provide the funds to carry out some kind of research? Cannot the Ministry do more than it is doing?

I would not altogether accept the figure that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned. There are various estimates of the incidence of this disease rising from 3,000 or 4,000 to about 20,000, but I am not in a position to comment on them. Most sufferers from the disease are not in-patients at hospitals. The trouble is that it is a hereditary disease. At present treatment is almost entirely palliative. The answer therefore to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's question is that research is proceeding into the causes of this disease under the Medical Research Council and at a number of hospitals. The Muscular Dystrophy Group of the Central Council for the Care of Cripples is also supporting research.

asked the Minister of Labour how many apprenticeships were available in or near Dart-ford to boys in 1962; and what percentage this represents of school-leavers.

Two hundred and five, or 33·8 per cent, of Dartford boys who entered employment in 1962 obtained apprenticeships in Dartford or within daily travelling distance.

Is this not still a very low percentage showing how limited are the opportunities for getting this kind of training? What early steps does the Minister propose to take to increase the number of apprenticeships in this area?

It is true that this percentage is slightly below the Great Britain percentage of 36·2. The percentage of apprenticeships, as the hon. Gentleman will be the first to appreciate, depends very much on the type of industries in the area and whether they are the apprentice-employing type of industries. Nevertheless, my right hon. Friend is most anxious to urge industry everywhere to increase training opportunities of all kind including apprenticeships. That is the aim of the recently published Government White Paper.

Will my hon. Friend give some figures at the earliest possible opportunity about the apprenticeship schemes in the paper-making industry, which are of great importance to this part and to the whole of Kent?

If my hon. Friend will table that question, I shall be very pleased to answer it.

asked the Minister of Labour what special provision his Department has made to strengthen the Youth Employment Service in new town areas where his Department is still responsible for its administration.

Two new towns, Dawley and Livingston, will lie in areas where the Service is run by my Department, but work on them has not yet begun. As their development proceeds, I shall keep the strength of the Service under regular review to ensure that staff levels match needs.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the new town areas the population structure per 1,000 is different from that generally found throughout the country? The number of school leavers is far greater per 1,000. Will he bear this in mind when these new towns materialise?

Certainly I will. The considerations to which my hon. Friend has drawn attention have been considered by the local education authorities which are providing the Youth Employment Services in the existing new towns.

asked the Minister of Labour if his Department is associated with the establishment in Turin by the International Labour Organisation of the international centre for advanced training.

An officer of my Department is a member of the Governing Body of the International Labour Office. The Governing Body has agreed to open this centre if sufficient funds are available.

Is it the policy of my right hon. Friend to support this centre?

Certainly. We shall consider what our attitude will be when—[HON. MEMBERS: "Answer the question."] There are very considerable financial implications here. It would be quite irresponsible of me to give an answer until those financial implications have been fully considered.

asked the Minister of Labour how many boys and girls of those that left school at Christmas are Still registered as unemployed at the Pontefract and Castleford employment exchanges in the West Riding of Yorkshire.

Thirteen boys and girls out of 384 who left school at Christmas in the Pontefract area, and 10 out of 318 in Castleford were registered for employment at the Youth Employment Bureaux on 11th March.

Would not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that these figures are too high in an industrial area? How many of these children have returned to school having failed to find employment?

I could not give the hon. Gentleman the answer to the last part of his supplementary question. As to the first part, any figures which show any school leaver still unemployed are too high. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] I should have thought that was a fairly obvious statement. Nevertheless, it is a sign of considerable progress that the number is as limited as it is. In fact, there are no summer or last year Easter school leavers still on the register at Pontefract, and only two summer and one Easter school leaver at Castleford. This shows that placing has continued, though more slowly than we would like.

asked the Minister of Labour how many boys and girls left school at Christmas 1962 in Dinnington, Maltby and Rotherham; and how many are registered as unemployed at the employment exchanges in each town.

Four hundred and seventy boys and girls left school at Christmas in Rother Valley, which includes Dinnington and Maltby, and 380 in Rotherham. Of these, 40 in Rother Valley and ten in Rotherham were unemployed on 11th March.

In reply to a previous Question the Parliamentary Secretary said that much depends on the type of industry in an area. In the areas referred to in my Question there are various types of industry. None of these children should be unemployed. What seriousness are we to attach to his statement that he does not know the numbers that have returned to school? Is it not a sad reflection on this Government that youngsters leaving school cannot find work?

I still must say that I cannot give the figures of those who have returned to school. I note what he has said about the rest, about placing taking rather longer than last year, but as he will be the first to appreciate, substantial progress is being made.

asked the Minister of Labour how many registered disabled workers in the West Riding of Yorkshire have received rehabilitation or other training courses during the past year; and how many of these are now unemployed.

During the year, March, 1962, to February, 1963, 866 registered disabled persons in the West Riding of Yorkshire completed courses of industrial rehabilitation or vocational training or both. On 20th March, 1963, of 159 who had completed training courses, 34 were unemployed and of 707 who had completed only rehabilitation courses, 240 were unemployed.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the misery that is caused when a man who is disabled goes through a rehabilitation or training course with high hopes that work will be found for him but afterwards finds that he is unemployed and is thrown back on the scrap heap? Will the Minister get his Department to make determined efforts to get these people into employment?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that my Department makes every effort to get these people into employment. He is right about the disappointment which obviously must be felt by them. He will appreciate that they are by far the most difficult cases. However, almost half of those who complete the courses are placed in employment and a further sixth accepted for training. I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's remarks, although I can assure him that we are doing everything we can to place these people in employment.

Would the Minister not agree that an expansion of Remploy would help in this respect? Will he reconsider the categories who are allowed to enter Remploy so that, by a broadening of those categories, more disabled may be taken in?

As the hon. Member knows, we have expanded the capacity of Remploy, which deals with the more severely disabled. We want to combine the efforts of Remploy, the local authorities and employers, the latter in taking a percentage of disabled when engaging people for jobs in their factories.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that there is sufficient consultation regarding prospective employment prior to these men being sent for training? Is he aware that in some cases men are sent off for training courses but find when they have returned from those courses that the work for which they have been trained is not available for them locally? Will the right hon. Gentleman see that there is the fullest consultation with local employers?

There is, of course, considerable consultation. We are anxious to give people who can benefit from rehabilitation every chance and one must draw the balancing line rather carefully.

asked the Minister of Labour, in view of the obligations which will be placed on employers after the coming into operation of the Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Bill to maintain a specific number of persons trained in first-aid, what arrangements he proposes to make to ensure that the necessary number of trained persons will in fact be available.

I propose to consult the voluntary training organisations about the provision of training facilities. The date when this provision comes into force would be fixed to allow sufficient time for employers to make the necessary arrangements. This was the procedure adopted when the corresponding provision under the Factories Act, 1959, was brought into operation.

In view of the difficulty, with which the right hon. Gentleman must be familiar, of getting volunteers to come forward for training, how will employers be able to carry out their obligations under the Bill, when it becomes an Act, in the absence of any statutory powers?

The hon. Member is right in drawing attention to the difficulty. He will remember that we discussed this when the Bill was proceeding through its Third Reading and Report stages. We are giving ample warning to employers of what will be required of them, and I trust that we are going to succeed in our objective.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that he will watch the position carefully to see that their obligations are carried out?

Naturally I will watch this most carefully, since it is my Bill.

asked the Minister of Labour how many boys and girls will be leaving school in the Don Valley at Easter, according to the latest information available to the youth employment officer; how many jobs are available for them; and how many boys and girls who left school in 1962 are still not in employment.

About 720 boys and girls are expected to leave school at Easter in the Don Valley, including Thorne and Goole. It is not possible to forecast how many jobs will be available, but the Youth Employment Service will make every effort to get them suitable employment as quickly as possible. On 11th March, 100 school leavers out of 2,943 were registered for employment.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the Doncaster figures of youth employment compared with the figures of total unemployment in the area are somewhat grave and are actually the worst in the United Kingdom? Should not the Government take some urgent, special steps to deal with this problem in an area where reasonably full employment is in existence? Is the hon. Gentleman further aware that if his advisers have no ideas on how to tackle this problem there are plenty of hon. Members who have ideas about which he may not be aware for tackling it? Does he not know that we are sick and tired of this drift into unemployment and poverty in areas which formerly were fairly reasonably well off? What do the Government intend to do to bring about some improvement in the situation in the Don Valley?

I could not accept what the hon. Gentleman says about the position in Doncaster being the worst in Great Britain. I realise, however, that there are some extra difficulties there at the moment. Nevertheless, there are opportunities in the surrounding areas and the figures of placings of the Christmas school leavers are such as to give us encouragement. While progress is slower than it has been in the past, it is, nevertheless, being made.

asked the Minister of Labour what opportunities for employment are available for the people at present employed by the Ford Motor Company in their Doncaster factory.

asked the Minister of Labour what discussions he has had in Doncaster about the proposed closure of the Ford Works there, and its effect on local employment; and what plans he has for helping to provide work in the district which includes Thorne, where the unemployment figure is 10 per cent.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that the threatened closing down of the Ford Motor Company's car assembly plant in Doncaster will further aggravate the unemployment position in the Dearne Valley contituency area; and what his plans are to help to prevent the workpeople affected from becoming redundant.

The company has announced that it intends to end car production at Doncaster by the middle of next year, but I understand that no definite decision has yet been taken to close the factory completely. It is impossible to say at this stage how many workpeople will need to find alternative work locally but the full facilities of my Department will be available to any workers who seek our help.

Is the Minister not aware that people are waiting for an answer to a question of this kind in Doncaster? Does he not know that redundancies and rumours of redundancies in Doncaster are throwing a blanket of gloom over the town? If he could give us some shade of hope that jobs will be available when this factory closes down that would be a great fillip to the town?

The whole point of my Answer is that it is not finally decided that this factory will close down. As I explained, the company is still examining what other work might be carried out at its Doncaster factory and is also offering its employees jobs at its other factories.

Will the right hon. Gentleman remember that it is impossible to offer jobs to some of the workers in Doncaster—and urge them to go elsewhere and to other factories—unless housing is provided for them? There seems to be no co-ordination between the various Government Departments about work and housing. Will he bear in mind that a little while ago, when I was asking him about the heavy unemployment in the Thorne area of my constituency, he suggested that the people concerned might go to Doncaster to seek work? If this large Doncaster factory is likely to close down or diminish its activities, where would the right hon. Gentleman suggest that we should send the Thorne unemployed?

I am hoping that the Doncaster factory will not be closed down and that what I said earlier to the hon. Gentleman is correct. I consider that the prospects of employment in Doncaster are reasonably satisfactory and that they will help his own area. I do not, therefore, retract what I said in any way at all.

Is the Minister aware that this is the second factory which it is proposed to close in the south Yorkshire area recently? Will the right hon. Gentleman make some efforts to ensure that if these factories do close an alternative form of employment will be provided? Is he not aware that there is a keen suspicion in south Yorkshire that work is being taken from this area to other parts of the country where, admittedly, the unemployment is of a graver nature?

No. Sir. I do not think that that is a fair accusation. This was raised when I was visiting Doncaster the other day. It is true that a large section of the motor car industry has gone to Scotland, Merseyside and elsewhere, but I think that it is important at this stage not to conclude that the factory, about which we are speaking, is necessarily going to close down. I also think that, with the general efforts of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to expand the economy, the future of Doncaster need not be as depressing as some hon. Members are trying to make out.

Regarding the large financial subventions given by the Government to the motor industry to establish production at Halewood and elsewhere, can my right hon. Friend say whether the Ford Motor Company advised the Government—before Government money was invested at Halewood and elsewhere—that if production commenced there car production would cease at Doncaster and would be concentrated at Halewood?

I do not think that the company was in a position to give such advice at the stage when it was decided to move to Halewood. To be fair to the company, it must constantly be examining the efficiency of its organisation; and it is no use taking up an entirely rigid attitude in these matters.

asked the Minister of Labour what action he proposes to take in the trade dispute between members of the National Union of Bank Employees on the staff of the London office of the Habib Bank (Overseas) and the management of the bank.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware of a trades dispute between members of the National Union of Bank Employees and the management of the Habib Bank, Overseas; and whether his Department will use their good offices to suggest arbitration machinery for the settlement of the dispute.

asked the Minister of Labour what action he has taken to facilitate a settlement in the dispute between the management of the London office of the Habib National Bank and members of its staff who belong to the National Union of Bank Employees.

I understand that during discussions last Friday the union and the bank made some progress towards a settlement of this dispute and that the talks were resumed today. I am sure hon. Members will appreciate that in these circumstances I do not wish to say anything which might prejudice the outcome.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that although the strike has been temporarily settled, the basic cause of the dispute still remains? Will he, therefore, use his good offices, if he is invited to, in helping to create a more permanent settlement?

My information is that the strike is not yet settled and that the discussions are still going on. Useful discussions took place on Friday, and they are continuing today. As I am sure the hon. Gentleman will be aware, my offices are available at the request of both sides.

Is the Minister aware that the strike was settled half an hour ago—[Laughter.]—but that two of the employees involved have not been reinstated? Is he also aware that extraordinary pressure was brought to bear in Pakistan on the relatives of strikers, in complete violation of the spirit of the I.L.O.? Will he now seek a complete settlement of this unfortunate dispute, because the differences are now very narrow indeed?

The hon. Gentleman, of course, has the advantage over me in that he has not had to attend to his duties in this Chamber for the last hour or so. I was not informed of the news that he has just given us. I will certainly note what he has said and acquaint myself with this "hot" news that he has given to the House.

But is the Minister aware that while a settlement of this dispute was made this morning—[HON. MEMBERS: "Half an hour ago."]—no, this morning—two of the strikers are still dismissal? As 14 days have been allowed for reconsideration of this matter, will the Ministry of Labour, during the next fortnight, use its offices to obtain the reinstatement of men who have been dismissed only for trade union activities?

There seems to be some dispute between the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friend the Member for Bilston (Mr. R. Edwards) on the actual timing of the settlement. I say to the hon. Member, as I said to his hon. Friend, that I will see what I can usefully do. Until I have a full account of what has happened, however, it would be quite wrong for me to make any further approach.

asked the Minister of Labour what action he proposes to take to find jobs for unemployed miners in the villages of Twechar and Croy in the County of Dunbartonshire.

Our local officers will continue to do everything possible to find work for those registered with them.

We have heard that answer so often before. Will the Parliamentary Secretary please keep in mind not only that the mines are closing down in this area but the railway stations also, which means that, with very few new industries coming to the area, he must do something drastic, and quickly, if there is not to be very heavy unemployment in the County of Dunbartonshire?

As the hon. Member knows, I take a very close personal interest in these matters in the particular area he has described—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"]—so I can assure him that it will remain very much in my mind.

Will the hon. Gentleman state what has been done in the past to relieve unemployment in this area, and what plans he, the Secretary of State for Scotland and the President of the Board of Trade intend to put into operation to help these people, many of whom were recently unemployed because of the closing of the mines in the whole area, including Kilsyth?

I note what the hon. Gentleman says. Needless to say, in my last supplementary answer I did not imply any idea of favouritism. I should also make it clear that my personal interest is purely one of a considerable interest in the people concerned and does not go further than that.

asked the Minister of Labour what additional measures he is taking to deal with the increase in the numbers of unemployed registering at the employment exchange in the burgh of Clydebank.

Our local officers are doing everything possible to try to find work for those registered with them. Clydebank is part of the Glasgow Development District, where the full facilities of the Local Employment Act are available.

I certainly hope that something will be done in the next 12 months, because for about seven years—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question."] Be patient. I hope that something more will be done in the next few months, because is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in the Burgh of Clydebank and its environs there is really no hope for hundreds of boiler makers, shipwrights, millwrights, engineers and all sorts of workers? There is also the question of more closures of railway stations between Clydebank and Dumbarton. Will he therefore try to change this deplorable situation on Clydebank?

There is every reason to expect that the expansion of the economy, for which measures have already been taken by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, will give hope to some of those people to whom he refers. He will also know of the contracts placed by the Central Electricity Generating Board, which have given substantial orders to two firms on Clydebank.

asked the Minister of Labour how many school leavers are registered as unemployed in the County of Ayr.

There were 101 out of 5,007 on 11th March.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary ask his right hon. Friend whether he is fully aware of the great personal tragedy there is for each boy and girl represented in the figures he has just given, and the extremely bad psychological effect it has on these children to think that they are unwanted for any employment?

I certainly note what the hon. Gentleman says. I appreciate the tone in which he says it, and respond to it. I would only say to him that of 1,391 school leavers at Christmas, only 74 are still registered for employment. Therefore, although there is difficulty for those 74, substantial progress has nevertheless been made.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that his Department's Special Press Notice on Unemployment for mid-March, 1963, states that the number of unemployed was 701,930, equal to 3·1 per cent., and that in the northern region the figure is 60 per cent.; and what action he has taken this month.

I am, of course, well aware of the figures. As the hon. Member knows, a series of measures have already been and will continue to be taken by the Government to reduce unemployment both in the Northern Region and in the rest of the country.

Is the Minister aware that if a figure of 6 per cent, prevailed throughout the country there would be about 1½ million unemployed, and that the situation in the North-East must, of necessity, be very bad? One wonders how it is that after there being for a fair length of time a special representative in the North, things are not getting any better but are getting worse. What does he intend to do about the new representative he has put there?

The situation in the North-East is, of course, very serious. I am glad to see, however, that last month's unemployment figures there were rather better than those for February. That does not mean that there is not a grave situation there which the Government are determined to improve. A great deal is being done. As hon. Members have the information, I will not enumerate the large number of special measures that have already been taken to give special priority to the North-East and to other areas of very heavy unemployment.