asked the Minister of Education (1) whether he will reconsider his decision about the construction of a new school building to replace the present building occupied by St. Mary's Secondary School in Derby; and if he will now approve the inclusion of this project in the school-building programme for 1964–65;

The Town Clerk's letter has been acknowledged and a further reply promised. I shall consider the request together with those from other authorities in the light of the current review of capital investment and the future load on the building industry.

May I first ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he hopes to send a personal answer to the council's protest, as all the council's members, including its Conservative members, voted in favour? Is he aware that on this occasion Mr. Gann, the regional officer, signed this himself but addressed it to the local education authority, Derbyshire, which does not show a great sense of personal responsibility and attention to a matter which, to Derby, is of great importance?

I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that if there has been any mistake of that kind I will make a point of sending a personal letter myself.

Is the Minister aware that the Roman Catholic school has been in the development plan for the borough since 1944; and that the Roman Catholic authorities have had no new building in the borough for forty years, and are at present turning away half the children who are applying to come in?

I realise the full facts. Of course, while the replacement of these various Roman Catholic secondary schools would product more roomy and better conditions for both primary and secondary children, these projects must be looked at together with the large number of other important projects in other parts of the country when the final size of the 1964–65 national programme is settled.

asked the Minister of Education (1) what plans he has for widening the scope of some training colleges so that they may attract ordinary degree students seeking careers in the social services, etc., as well as teaching, on the lines advocated in paragraph 77 of the 8th Report of the National Advisory Council on the Training and Supply of Teachers;

The Report to which the bon. Member refers was forwarded to the Committee on Higher Education at the National Advisory Council's request, but my predecessor made it plain that in doing this he was not to be regarded as committed to any particular conclusion in the Report. I am sure it is sensible to await the recommendations of Lord Robbins' Committee before considering alterations of long-term significance either to the scope or to the organisation of the training colleges.

Surely, the answer to Question No. 4 is well within the scope of the Minister's responsibilities. Has he had no consultation with the training colleges to see what can be done? Why does he not try one or two experiments as a preliminary to waiting for the Robbins Report?

The hon. Member will know that a number of experiments are going on. At the moment, four colleges in the London Institute of Education have four-year courses of combined degree work and teacher training. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will realise that one difficulty in the immediate situation is that to diversify the rôle of training colleges, as suggested in paragraph 77 of the 8th Report, would be to diminish the number of places available to students in training as teachers and, as he knows, the first priority at present is to extend the supply of teachers from the training colleges. I will certainly look at this again, but my own feeling at the moment is that it is right to await the Report of the Robbins Committee.

I am sure that the Minister appreciates that there is a very serious crisis in teacher supply. In view of that, would he consider the Government's publishing a White Paper on teacher supply, and providing for a debate in the House?

That is a rather wider question than that on the Order Paper. We debated teacher supply at some length only recently, but I will certainly consider whether there is any convenient means whereby I can make more information on the subject available to the House.

asked the Minister of Education if he will state the names of the two local authority representatives on the Burnham Committee with whom he discussed the disputed Burnham proposals in confidence, and the reasons which led him to consult these two persons rather than the leaders of the local authorities and the teacher's panels respectively.

Between 24th January, when the Burnham Committee sent me details of its provisional agreement, and 8th March when it ratified this agree- ment, I discussed my proposed rejection of the Committee's proposals with eight representatives of the local authority associations represented on the Burnham Committee. On 1st March I saw a deputation of members of the authorities and the teachers' panels of the Committee. I regard all these discussions as having been confidential.

Is it not a fact that the Minister saw two distinguished members of the party opposite, not in their representative capacity, who were serving on the Burnham Committee. Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that this is another indication of the unhappy way in which he has undermined the confidence which teachers and local authorities have a right to place in him?

I saw eight people. They were not all political supporters of this side of the House, but I do not want to make anything of that point because I do not regard this as a party political issue. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Certainly not. This is a perfectly proper use of my power as Minister under Section 89 of the Act. As deadlock seemed imminent it seemed wholly reasonable for me and any responsible party in the education service to discuss informally and confidentially possible ways of avoiding deadlock. I still think that that was a perfectly reasonable and sensible thing to do.

The right hon. Gentleman is bound to know the two gentlemen to whom I referred. Did he not see them on their own, quite apart from the others?

I can assure the hon. Member that I did not see anybody in the guise of political supporters of the present Government. [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer."] Anyone I saw—and this is an important point—I saw entirely because of their position in the local authority world.

But did the right hon. Gentleman happen to see two people of the same party as his own and did he see those people separately?

Quite genuinely I assure the House that I do not know how quite a number of people I saw vote at elections. I did not see any of these people because I regarded them as political supporters of the present Government, I saw them because of the part which I hoped they could play in helping to resolve the present deadlock.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Education how many schools, school places, school children and teachers will be transferred from the present Essex Education Authority to prospective new Greater London Essex boroughs; what will be the financial effect of this on the future Essex County Council; and if provisional arrangements are being made in respect of school children living near the boundaries of the prospective new boroughs for whom it is more convenient to attend schools beyond those boundaries.

The local education authority's provisional estimate is 385 schools, 132,364 pupils, and 5,413 teachers, and their transfer is likely to reduce the county estimates by £9·8 million. The change in boundaries need not cause any change in school catchment areas.

May I ask the Minister whether he is satisfied that children under the responsibility of the Essex Education Authority in future will not suffer in any way because of this new local government rearrangement? Will not the right hon. Gentleman also agree, in connection with the latter part of the Question, that it is very desirable to make arrangements now to avoid confusion in future?

I entirely agree with the latter part of the hon. Member's remarks. There cannot be any question of excluding children attending schools over the border at the time of the change. That is important. Arrangements for admission will continue to be the responsibility of the Essex County Council until 1st April, 1965, but if the hon. Member has any representations to make to me I am perfectly ready to play any part I properly can to make sure that the change-over takes place as smoothly as possible.

Will the right hon. Gentleman reply to the first part of the Question? Is he satisfied that there will be no detrimental effects on these children?

If the hon. Member looks at the first part of the supplementary answer I gave, he will find that I said that children will not be excluded who are attending schools over the border when the transfer comes along. I believe it will be quite possible to make arrangements which will prevent damage to the interests of the children.

asked the Minister of Education what help, financial and otherwise, the Government will give towards the recent Swedish plan put before the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation to save the statues and temples of Abu Simbel.

The Government have already indicated that there is no question at the moment of joining in the appeal made by U.N.E.S.C.O. for contributions to the cost of saving these statues and temples. The particular plan to which the hon. Member refers is only one of several which have been put forward in U.N.E.S.C.O. as alternatives to the original proposal, and a final decision has yet to be taken.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Answer is very disappointing? Does he not agree that these temples and statues are a very important part of the heritage of mankind? Does he not agree further that all civilised nations, and particularly Great Britain, should do what they can to preserve them for future generations?

I sympathise with the point made by my hon. Friend, but the basic reason for the attitude of the United Kingdom has been that the educational needs of the developing countries should have first claim on resources that can be made available to U.N.E.S.C.O. I think that that was the right stand to take.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the U.N.E.S.C.O. campaign to save these precious monuments has unanimous support in the Council of Europe and that the attitude of his predecessor began with mild sympathy and ended with cold indifference? Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that to give help to the U.N.E.S.C.O. project could be a contribution not only to culture but to world understanding and peace?

I do not want to prejudge too finally, because two alternative plans to the original proposal were considered by the Executive Committee of the Nubia Appeal Fund last week and will shortly be considered by the Executive Board of U.N.E.S.C.O. In view of the limited funds available to U.N.E.S.C.O., I believe that we have been right as a country to say that priority should be given to the educational needs of developing countries.

asked the Minister of Education what evidence he has of the value to schools of television educational programmes; and whether he will initiate further research into the effect of such programmes and into their methods of putting information across.

The growing popularity with the schools and the teachers of the schools television programmes of both B.B.C. and I.T.A. is the best evidence of their value. Several other countries provide similar evidence. I am considering whether I should initiate specific research into the effect of television on the teaching process.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his reply. When he is considering the possibility of initiating further research, will he also bear in mind the possibility of co-ordinating the educational television programmes to be put out on both networks? Will he also give consideration to the views of those people—and I do not necessarily associate myself with those views—who advocate a separate educational channel?

The Government's mind is by no means closed on any of these matters. I ought to say in answer to the original Question that I know of no published research in the country based on controlled experiments into the efficacy of television teaching in schools and I am considering now whether it might be valuable to initiate research on its effects.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind—and consider the matter with urgency—that there is widespread opinion that a great deal of money is now being wasted on television education because its effect is not being properly looked into?

I accept the hon. Lady's view that there is a good deal of concern. I hope that the range of B.B.C. schools broadcasts on television will be increased when the second channel comes into operation. It is important that we not only have more television schools broadcasts but that we should ensure that the money is spent as wisely as possible. This is why I stress the importance of research.

If the right hon. Gentleman does not know of any research being carried out on closed-circuit television teaching, would he get in touch with the Glasgow Education Authority, through its director in Glasgow, where such experiments are now going on?

I am glad to hear that. I do not normally have many dealings with Glasgow Education Authority, for obvious reasons, but I will bear in mind what the hon. Member has said.

asked the Minister of Education what provision is made in the curricula for those school leavers who enter commercial and distributive employment with a view to facilitating an understanding of the nature and importance of Scottish bank notes and familiarising people with them as a medium of exchange.

I do not know of any, but I do not collect detailed information of this character.

The right hon. Gentleman must have some interest in the curricula in schools in England. Does not he realise that school leavers entering, for instance, the distributive trades are completely unfamiliar with Scottish bank notes? In addition to training English pupils with the assistance of imitation English bank notes, will the right hon. Gentleman introduce the use of imitation Scottish bank notes so as to avoid embarrassment to school leavers working in shops and to Scottish people doing their shopping in England?

If I were to send round a circular telling all the schools that they should teach their pupils about Scottish bank notes, then I think some of the charges currently being made against me might acquire some plausibility.

asked the Minister of Education how many Roman Catholic primary schools have been built, rebuilt, or substantially enlarged in the county of Essex during the past ten years; how many Roman Catholic primary schools in Essex fall seriously short of the minimum physical requirements laid down by his Department, being overcrowded and having inadequate sanitation and storage space and having no hall; and if he will publish in HANSARD lists of the schools in these categories, with the dates of building, rebuilding and substantial enlargement and the dates by which he expects that the inadequate and overcrowded schools will have been replaced.

Of the 37 Roman Catholic primary schools in Essex, 19 have been built, rebuilt or substantially enlarged in the last ten years. I will circulate a list of these in the OFFICIAL REPORT. The remainder fall short of the standards prescribed in the Standards for School Premises Regulations for a variety of reasons.

Is the right hon. Gentleman at least convinced by these comparative figures that the case for the rebuilding of St. Joseph's School, Barking, is a very strong one. Does he realise that it is now eight years since his predecessor said:

"This is just the kind of project that I would like to see go ahead as soon as there is some relaxation of the extreme pressure on the resources at my disposal"?

The hon. Member has a Question later on the Order Paper about St. Joseph's School. Half of the 37 Roman Catholic primary schools have been built, rebuilt or enlarged over the last ten years. This surely is a sign that Roman Catholic needs in Essex are not being neglected.

They are in Barking.

asked the Minister of Education if he has received a petition signed by 19,280 electors of varying faiths, resident in the Borough of Barking, Essex, urging him to approve the inclusion in the 1964–65 programme of the rebuilding of St. Joseph's Roman Catholic Primary School, Barking, which was destroyed by bombing in 1941; and if he will ascertain from the Roman Catholic authorities how urgently necessary they now believe this project to be.

I have received the petition. I do not think it necessary to make fresh inquiries since I know that the Roman Catholic authorities regard this project as urgent. As the hon. Member was told last week, I am aware of conditions at the school, and I am prepared to look again at the Essex building programme for 1964–65 if additional resources become available.

Has the right hon. Gentleman had an opportunity of looking at the copy of a letter dated 12th March, 1956, which I sent to him? Does not that seem rather to dispose of what the Parliamentary Secretary said last Thursday about the attitude of the Roman Catholic authorities?

I have tried to read all the back papers on this file. In fact, my hon. Friend was not altogether wrong about it. It is true that this project did appear in the programme proposed for 1957–58 but it was then dropped until 1963–64. However, I recognise that this is a project which must have a place in the queue if it is possible to enlarge the school building programme for next-year.

asked the Minister of Education how many pupils study Spanish in schools in England and Wales; whether any pupils have spent time in Spanish-speaking countries under education authority auspices; and whether he will set up a committee to consider the teaching of Spanish, similar to the Annan Committee on the teaching of Russian, in view of the growing importance of trade with South America.

I have at present no precise information in answer to the first part of the Question. The number of pupils offering Spanish in the General Certificate of Education has risen, and I understand that school journeys to Spain are not uncommon. The answer to the last part of the Question is "No", but I hope that the extension of modern language teaching in primary schools will lead to an increase in the teaching of Spanish and other languages at the secondary school stage.

What are the objections to setting up such a committee?

I cannot help feeling at present that we should not set up too many committees to study the teaching of individual languages in the sort of way the hon. Gentleman suggests; in any case, we should not be able to do very much more without having a stronger basis of language teaching in the primary schools than we have today. If the hon. Gentleman would care to come to see me about it, I am quite ready to discuss the matter with him further. He may not know that there has been a quite sharp increase in the number of candidates offering A-level Spanish; it went up in the 1950s from 518 to 1,412, and it has been going up quite sharply during recent years.

Does my right hon. Friend accept that, if we went over to the decimal coinage system, languages could be taught much earlier in the primary schools?

I recently announced what I regard as a quite important project in French teaching in primary schools, which will, I hope, lay the basis for considerably more diversified modern language teaching at the secondary stage.

asked the Minister of Education how many local education authorities and committees of excepted districts have expressed to him their dissatisfaction about the size of next year's school building programme; in how many cases he has found it possible to approve additional projects; and what sum of money still remains to be allocated.

Representations have been received from sixty-three English local education authorities and four excepted districts and from the Welsh Joint Education Committee. I shall need to complete my consideration of these appeals before deciding what additional projects I am able to approve. Priority must be given to the provision of new school places where there is a shortage. The final value of the programme will depend upon the review of capital investment and of the capacity of the building industry on which the Government is engaged.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that there is really widespread discontent among local education authorities, as evidenced by the number which have indicated their dissatisfaction to him? Will he, in the course of his review, look at the school building programme over the last ten years? Does he realise that, after such an examination, he must come to the conclusion that his Ministry has persistently underestimated the need for new school building, and will he, therefore, do his best in the Cabinet to step up the whole programme?

The hon. Gentleman must not exaggerate the effect of the figures I gave. By no means all the sixty-three authorities concerned were seriously critical. In some cases they wished only to make representations about one or two particular projects. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will recall that, during the course of this Parliament, education building starts as a whole have gone up by 43 per cent.

In view of the almost universal dissatisfaction among local authorities, and in view of the fact that it is necessary to take a decision very soon if they are to be given good notice for next year, will the right hon. Gentleman undertake that this figure will be reviewed and extended?

No; I cannot give any undertaking. The hon. Gentleman has himself drawn attention to the difficulty. I announced the interim programme as soon as I could precisely because of the length of time it takes to plan schools. We have a longer planning cycle than other Departments concerned with public investment. The final programme cannot be decided until all the public sector has been surveyed. This is the difficulty here. I shall reach a final figure as soon as possible, but it is necessary to survey the situation. The hon. Gentleman knows the trend of public investment at present. It is likely that pressure on building resources for public as well as private reasons will, in 1964–65, be higher.

Is the limiting factor money or just the physical resources of the building industry, and is the choice between building schools or, say, building hospitals and slum clearance?

The primary limiting factor here is pressure on building resources. [HON. MEMBERS: "Non- sense."] Certainly, it is. I was about to say that it has been the experience under all Governments, not least under the party opposite, that, if the level of starts is too high relative to resources, this merely means that schools and other forms of public building are completed in much longer time.

asked the Minister of Education how many local education authorities in England and Wales are without the services of a speech therapist at the present time.

Twenty, Sir.

What steps is the Minister taking to help those local education authorities which wish to obtain the services of a speech therapist to do so?

I hope that the Manchester training school opened in 1960 will improve recruitment in the North, and I am considering the establishment of a further new school in the North- East.

Is not the main stumbling-block to the recruitment of speech therapists the appallingly low salary paid? Will the Minister consider increasing the salary scale, since these people have specialised training for very important work? I feel sure that, if he did increase the salaries, this would go a long way towards solving the problem.

For status and pay, speech therapists are regarded as analogous to the professions supplementary to medicine, and questions on that subject should be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health.

asked the Minister of Education the total amount of money for building projects for Youth Service work applied for by local education authorities in 1962–63; and what was the total value of the projects approved by him.

The figures are £7·9 million and £3·6 million, respectively.

There is a lot of interest in the post-Albemarle era, but, although quite a lot has been going on, neither the House nor the country has been told about it. What steps is the Minister taking to give us information about what his Ministry is doing following the Albemarle Report?

If the Opposition care to put the subject down for, say, a half Supply Day, that would be extremely helpful, I think. Alternatively, any hon. Gentleman interested in the subject might care to raise the matter on private Member's day. That is by far the most convenient way.

asked the Minister of Education if he will reconsider his decision to exclude the rebuilding of St. John's Roman Catholic Primary School, Brentford, from the 1964–65 school building programme, in view of the handicaps imposed on the teaching staff by an out-of-date building.

I am meeting a deputation from the Middlesex local education authority tomorrow. I shall, of course, consider carefully any case it may make for this or any other project, but the possibility of enlarging the programme depends on the review of capital investment and of the capacity of the building industry on which the Government are engaged.

Will my right hon. Friend agree that, while the Government school building record generally is excellent, there must be a few black spots? This is one such black spot affecting a large number of people in the Brentford area. As this school building is, perhaps, about the worst in the whole Middlesex area, will my right hon. Friend consider this project particularly sympathetically?

I do not wish to prejudge the result of talks I shall have with the deputation tomorrow. I realise that the premises of this school are very poor. It is just that I do not this afternoon wish to prejudge the importance of this school as compared with the other schools which have been mentioned at Question Time today. All these projects will be reviewed if the total programme of starts can be extended.

asked the Minister of Education to what extent widowed mothers with the necessary educational qualifications whose children have reached the age of 18 years are encouraged to return to the teaching profession.

It is my policy to encourage married women teachers, including those mentioned by the hon. Lady, to return to the schools as soon as they think it right to do so in the light of their family commitments. The teacher training colleges welcome older applicants, both men and women, who have the necessary educational qualifications and can offer a substantial period of service in the schools.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that sympathetic reply. Has he yet received a reply from the Cabinet to the representations that he has made about the disability of the application of the earnings rule to widows' pensions when they re-enter the education service? Is he aware of the disadvantage that widows are under compared with married women? When will my right hon. Friend receive this answer from the Cabinet, and when can we expect action in order that widows may be as fairly treated in this field as married women?

Matters relating to widows' pensions are, in the first instance, for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance, but, with my right hon. Friend, I will take note of the point which my hon. Friend has made.

Surely the Minister appreciates that, if he wants widows who will be very suitable as teachers to return to the teaching profession, he must do something about it and take up this most serious grievance?

I realise the importance which hon. Ladies and hon. Gentlemen generally on both sides of the House attach to this matter, and I will bear it in mind.

Has my right hon. Friend yet raised this point in the Cabinet, because, if the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance is asked about it, he says that it is the responsibility of the Minister of Education? I am sick of this passing the buck.

I apologise to my hon. Friend, but it would not be proper for me to say what either or both of us raised in the Cabinet at one time or another.

Does the Minister consider that the answers which he has given today measure up to the high rhetoric of his party political broadcast last night?

That matter is better decided by the House than by me.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs the total cost, including travel, printing, maps, fees, etc., for producing Report No. 4 of the Local Government Commission for England.

The cost of printing the Local Government Commission's Report No. 4 and the definitive maps which accompanied it was £2,377.

I thank my right hon. Friend for those figures. Is he aware that the many thousands of people in the County of Somerset who are affected by these proposals and all the local authorities—the county council, all the district councils and all the parish councils—are unanimously and strenuously opposed to these recommendations? Will he give the House an assurance that it is no part of his policy to force administrative changes on people who neither need them nor want them?

As my hon. Friend knows, a very precise procedure is laid down by Parliament for the conduct of these local government reviews, and I shall follow that procedure. I know that my hon. Friend is raising the matter on the Adjournment on Monday when, perhaps, we can look into it more fully.

I am well aware of the point which my right hon. Friend makes about the procedure. What I am concerned about is policy. Will he give us an assurance about his feelings on this very important matter?

My policy is laid down for me by the Statute which lays down the considerations that have to be borne in mind by the Minister and by the Government of the day.

Will the Minister explain to the hon. Member for Somerset, North (Sir E. Leather) that it is the Government's policy to force administrative changes on people against their will? The hon. Gentleman himself assisted them in doing so with regard to London.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what steps he has taken and intends to take to publicise the provisions of the Local Authorities (Historic Buildings) Act, 1962.

My right hon. Friend sent a circular about this Act to local authorities in December last and also referred to it in the Annual Report of the Ministry for 1962.

Is my hon. Friend aware that circulars sent to local authorities achieve no publicity whatever in the nation? Is he further aware that a large number of farm houses and other minor buildings which are, nevertheless, buildings of important historic interest, might well benefit under this Act if wider publicity were given to it in the country?

I assure my hon. Friend that a very great deal of publicity was given to this Act when it was before Parliament. All the evidence is that the powers are widely known, certainly among the major preservation societies. Indeed, copies of the circular have been in heavy demand. It has had to be reprinted, and is almost a best seller.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what action he is considering to prevent profiteering in the prices of land in the neighbourhood of the newly-opened Slough section of M.4, in view of the effect this is having on housing and other development costs.

I have no evidence of any abnormal rise in land prices in this area.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the prices of land along the roads which the community is providing are rising and are having a devastating effect on housing costs? The people of Slough are very much concerned, because, in the case of the nearby Maidenhead area by-pass, a five-acre site for building houses has just been sold for £56,000.

And the hon. Gentleman does not know it!

Will the hon. Gentleman do something to stop this profiteering?

The general view expressed at inquiries into these matters is that motorways have a depressing effect on the price of land rather than the reverse. All that my right hon. Friend can do is to try to ensure that there is adequate land for development available in relation to the demand, and this he is doing.

Is not this a clear example of the powerlessness of the Government under present legislation to cope in any way with the reaping of betterment by people who have done nothing at all in the development of these areas, and does it not show the need to introduce legislation immediately to cope with this problem?

As I understand the proposals of the party opposite, they merely entail a form of taxation, which has never yet reduced the price of anything.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what revision he has made of his civil defence plan for evacuating 12 million people in case of nuclear war, so as to take account of the changes in railway transport proposed by Dr. Beeching and approved by the Government.

The hon. Member is presumably referring to the Government's plans to make available a scheme for the dispersal of 9½ million people in priority classes from certain towns in England and Wales. The Government are considering what effect the proposals for the reorganisation of the railways would have on the detailed planning of this scheme.

When the Government have finished their consideration, will they be kind enough to arrange a debate on the matter in view of the great doubt about whether the scheme can be carried out at all during the general period of alert before a four-minute warning, which is the period assigned in the policy?

I am sure that the usual channels will note the hon. Gentleman's suggestion.

Will the Government's consideration take place after the closures have been imposed, or before?

My right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport has made it plain that the Government are studying the implications of this Report now.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the ratio of parking space to square feet of office space in the new Vickers building; and how this ratio compares with that for other office buildings in Central London completed or approved during the last five years.

I am informed that the car parking standards in use by the London County Council at the time when the Council granted planning permission for the erection of the Vickers building required one car space for every 2,500 sq. ft. gross of floor space. As the office building has an area of 500,000 sq. ft., this would have involved a minimum requirement of 200 car spaces. In fact, 210 spaces were provided.

Bearing in mind that these skyscraper office blocks inevitably involve many more cars coming into London, will the hon. Gentleman initiate urgent discussions with the London County Council on this whole problem before any further consents are given? Does the hon. Gentleman realise that Middlesex, for example, has much more stringent conditions, which require one car parking space for every 500 sq. ft. of office space?

My right hon. Friend has no evidence that the London County Council's standards are unreasonable. It is, of course, open to the Council to change them if it thinks fit.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs which towns from which it is proposed to remove railway facilities under the railway reorganisation scheme are undertaking or proposing to undertake comprehensive redevelopment or urban renewal schemes based on surveys of the present traffic position.

I will, with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a list of towns with town centre redevelopment schemes in progress or in preparation from which the withdrawal of all rail passenger services is proposed under the railway reorganisation scheme.

Will the hon. Gentleman consider with the Minister of Transport what technical advice can be given immediately to these towns so that they can take into consideration the changes in traffic flow and the changes which they will need to make in their schemes if the Beeching Report is implemented, because otherwise there will be very costly miscalculations?

I have no doubt whatever that local authorities will be considering their reactions to these proposals. If they make objection to their transport users consultative committee, it will be considered by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport in consultation with my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what reply he has sent to the Clerk of the Porthcawl Council's letter to him drawing his attention to the hardships caused by revaluation and the rate demand to ratepayers in its area.

I have sent the hon. Member a copy of my reply.

I thank the Minister for his courtesy in sending me a copy of his reply. Would he agree that this increase is particularly onerous to the ratepayers, especially having regard to the lack of industry in the area? Is he aware that a large number of pensioners come to retire at Porthcawl? Am I to understand from his letter that he can offer no immediate relief to the ratepayers of Porthcawl?

I certainly can offer no immediate relief, although the committee Which I am just about to set up will make its inquiries in just that sort of situation. I would only say that the ratepayers of Porthcawl are returning, so far as the share of the burden on the domestic ratepayer is concerned, to the pre-1955 pattern, although this is small comfort to those who are particularly hit.

Will there be representatives from Wales on the committee that the Minister is about to set up?

No. This is not in any way a representative committee. It is purely a fact-finding committee and we shall keep it as small as possible to do the job quickly.

How can the facts in Wales be ascertained accurately unless there is a Welsh representative on the committee? Does not the right hon. Gentleman, as Minister for Welsh Affairs, realise that it is his duty to consider the Welsh position in the matter?

Yes, but I have every confidence in Welsh authorities and Welsh men and women being able to make their case to a committee when it is set up.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what measures have been taken by the Inspectorate to control and prevent the smoke and sulphur nuisance from the Goldendale Foundry, Tunstall.

New arrestment plant complying with the Alkali Inspectorate's requirements is due to start operating this month to deal with the blast furnace emissions, including smoke. At the Inspectorate's instance the company continues to seek more effective means of controlling emissions from the hot blast cupolas. There are virtually no sulphur oxides in the blast furnace gases and little in the hot blast cupola gases.

Is the Minister aware that this has been going on for several years and that each time the matter is raised the firm promises that in another month it will do something? What assurance have we that this great nuisance to these people will be eliminated completely?

I understand that the company has been energetic in pursuing a remedy. Difficulties have arisen since the installation of the blast furnace arrestment plant owing to the difficulties in installing ancillary equipment, some of which was damaged. As I have said, however, this is to begin operating this month. With regard to the hot blast cupolas, I understand that major difficulties have been encountered and that a new firm of plant manufacturers has been commissioned to help to find a remedy.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether expenditure incurred by local authorities in Wales who print documents in the Welsh language ranks for grant to the same extent as when they are printed in English.

There is no specific grant for the printing of documents in either language but the expenditure ranks for rate-deficiency grant.

Is there a list of approved items for this purpose in both languages? Will the Minister consider issuing a comprehensive statement on the matter and distributing it among all Welsh authorities, as there is uncertainty as to the position?

That would involve a number of my right hon. Friends, but I will certainly consider the hon. Member's suggestion.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs in how many houses built on behalf of local authorities in England and Wales during each of the last six years the maximum height of the rooms was limited to 7 ft. 6 in.

The ceiling height of 7 ft. 6 in. specified by the vast majority of local authorities in their byelaws is a a minimum, not a maximum, height. Information about the number of houses built with rooms of a given height is not available.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that too many people who live in comfortable homes are too willing to bring about a reduction in the standards of the homes of other people. Is he aware that his right hon. Friend's predecessor made a statement twelve months ago that many new houses are small, ill-equipped, unsightly to look at and just plain ugly? Will not the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. Friend do something to improve the standard of houses?

I do not consider that the question of 6 in. in height is strictly relevant. Careful comparative tests were carried out in 1950 comparing 7 ft. 6 in. ceilings with 8ft. ceilings and no adverse effect was found in respect of either ventilation, daylighting, health, comfort or convenience.