asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what decisions Her Majesty's Government have reached following the recent tours of the Lord President of the Council of the North-East.

Her Majesty's Government have announced a number of decisions affecting the North-East since my noble Friend paid his first visit on 15th January last. As the list of these is long, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT. In addition, the North-East will also benefit from the new and increased facilities being made available to firms in development districts.

This is a complete avoidance of answering the Question. Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that I am asking what plans there are for the North-East? I am sure that on reflection he must agree that this Answer is disgraceful. We want more information. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that at the moment, in spite of what has been provided, there are still over 67,000 unemployed in the North-East and that we want a great deal more done than has been done?

If the hon. Member will read the list of decisions which Her Majesty's Government have made, he will see that they will go a very considerable way towards reducing the large figure which he mentioned as existing at present.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, if, following his further visits to the North-East, he will now make a comprehensive statement on his tours of the North-East.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, if he is now in a position to make a statement on the outcome of the regional study of the North-East.

The examination of the many issues arising from my noble Friend's visits to the North-East is well advanced and has already resulted in a number of decisions, as I indicated in my Answer to the previous Question. My noble Friend will shortly be making a comprehensive report to his colleagues.

But it is now more than three months since the Minister visited the North-East, and his visit added to the list of many visits which other Ministers have made. Is it not time, therefore, that a plan should have been prepared and that we should have it, instead of waiting until just before the General Election so that it may be used as a gimmick?

The report to which I referred was the report which my noble Friend was making to his colleagues. It would not be in the natural course of events that this should be published in the terms in which he presents it to his colleagues, or even that it should be published at all.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the influence of the Lord President of the Council on the affairs of the North-East is already obvious to those who wish to see it? [HON. MEMBERS: "Where?"] Is my hon. friend further aware that the majority of people in the North-East see this appointment as representing to the North-East the greatest opportunity ever?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his words and I will draw my noble Friend's attention to them.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, when the Lord President last visited the North-East; when he will next visit the area; when his plans will be published; and how many staff are employed by his Department in the North-East.

From the beginning, my noble Friend has planned the execution of his special responsibilities to the North-East in three phases: first, the two extensive tours of the region in February and March, on which he was accompanied by a number of senior officials from the executive Departments; secondly, his discussions with his colleagues which led to the Government's decisions announced in the Budget and since; thirdly, his impending report to his colleagues on the longer term and their consideration of it. My noble Friend does not at present envisage making any further tours comparable to those in the first phase, but hopes to visit the region as occasion permits.

The hon. Gentleman has not answered the last point about the number of staff employed in the area, but does not the Answer which he has given make nonsense of the idea that the North-East has a Minister of its own? The Lord President has not visited the area for months, he has no immediate plans for visiting the area, he has produced no plan for the area and he has virtually no staff in the North-East working for it. When will the Government stop playing about with the silly gimmick that the North-East has a Minister of its own and get down to the job of providing some employment in the area? That is what we want, not gimmicks.

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Ministry of Housing and Local Government has already set up an office in the area since my noble Friend took over his special responsibilities. Also, the D.S.I.R. is setting up a regional office in the area. I hope that what the hon. Gentleman suggests is not that we should set up in the North-East a microcosm of Whitehall, because I do not think that that would necessarily improve the speed with which we want to get things done.

Did I understand the Parliamentary Secretary to say in his original Answer that the Lord President of the Council does not intend to visit the North-East in the near future?

No. I said that my noble Friend did not at present envisage any further tours comparable with those in the first phase. He certainly intends to visit the North-East in the near future. There is a Question down today which specifically asks when he is going and where.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, if he will publish a report on the building work expected to be completed in the North-East in 1963 and 1964 as a result of the recommendations of the Lord President of the Council.

The decisions which the Government have taken to assist the North-East and developments undertaken by private industry as a result of the new and increased benefits available in development districts will involve a great deal of building work in the region. But my noble Friend is not prepared to forecast how much of it will be completed in any one year.

Surely it is desirable to be more precise than this. Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that unemployment in the building industry in the North-East has been one of the more serious problems in the area? Why cannot he give some indication of what is likely to happen in the public sector so that at least the area shall know how matters will progress?

I think that the programme of building twelve advance factories, a Crown building at Stockton-on-Tees for the staff of the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance, and a building in Durham to house the National Savings Certificates Division of the General Post Office, all of which have already been announced, are but indications of the massive programme of building work which the Government are undertaking in the North-East.

But is the hon. Gentleman aware that there are no indications of a long-term plan and that that is what we expect from the Lord President of the Council?

If I answered the hon. Member's supplementary question I should be straying across my Answer to a later Question on the Order Paper, but this building is the first stage to try to relieve unemployment in the building industry which the hon. Member recognises exists. Long-term plans in the area must await the report which my noble Friend will make to his colleagues.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what increases in coal mining, railway-wagon building and heavy engineering he expects to occur in southwest Durham in 1963 as a result of the recommendations of the Lord President of the Council.

My noble Friend's efforts are directed to encouraging a higher level of economic activity in the region as a whole. It is too early to judge how they will affect employment in individual industries in particular localities over a short period time.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary expect any increase in these activities in south-west Durham?

I have every hope that we shall see increased activities in various parts of the area, though my noble Friend is fully aware of the very special difficulties of this area and not least the shortage of possible building sites owing to subsidence and so on.

Could the Parliamentary Secretary indicate, in connection with the coal mining and the railway industries, what will be the Lord President's advice to his colleagues in the Cabinet as to the future of these two industries in that area?

I cannot say what advice my noble Friend gives to his colleagues, but the results of his advice and the deliberations of his colleagues are manifest in the decisions which have been taken.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what steps the Lord President is taking in regard to his Department's tardiness in replying to correspondence in connection with North-East matters.

My noble Friend is unaware of any correspondence to which this criticism applies. He apologises for any instances which may have escaped his notice. If the hon. Member has some specific case in mind, perhaps he will send me the particulars.

I am rather surprised. Is not the Parliamentary Secretary aware that I wrote to his noble Friend on 26th March about a proposed interview with the Northumberland miners and that, although I have subsequently written again, I have received no reply? Does he not agree that the correspondence with his Department reveals that there is an unnecessary duplication of correspondence which, in many ways, renders the appointment as unnecessary? We are already troubled enough in dealing with Government Departments concerned with unemployment, and this unnecessary duplication is delaying matters considerably. Is the hon. Gentleman also aware that I will let him have details of the correspondence which I have in mind?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his promise to let me have details of the case he has in mind. In many of the instances when correspondence is addressed to my noble Friend a number of Government Departments and even local authorities have to be consulted, and this sometimes means an inevitable delay before my noble Friend is able to reply to the Member in question.

But as the Parliamentary Secretary's noble Friend disclaims any responsibility and claims only to act as a post-box, will he arrange, when he next goes to the North-East, to take the responsible Ministers with him so that decisions can be taken?

I think the hon. Gentleman is under-estimating the close concert in which the Tory Government work together.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I shall raise the matter later.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what future role is envisaged for the North-East Development Council; and, in particular, whether he will establish a special and permanent relationship between it and the National Economic Development Council.

The present role of the North-East Development Council is to assist in promoting the economic development of the region, and my noble Friend hopes that it will continue with this task. The National Economic Development Council has been in consultation with the Council on matters concerning the North-East, and this practice will, no doubt, continue in appropriate cases.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary say whether the Lord President of the Council is really concerned with the long-term future of the area? However much window-dressing his appointment may be, it will be some satisfaction if a permanent solution is found for the problem of regional development. In the light of this fact, will the Minister consider whether the financial resources available to the North-East Development Council and the absence of executive powers make it an effective instrument in the long run to function effectively without a connection with the National Economic Development Council?

In answer to the hon. Gentleman's first point, of course my noble Friend is interested in the long-term future of this region. That is why he is preparing a long and detailed report to make to his colleagues.

Would the Parliamentary Secretary clarify what he said about the regional plan which the Lord President of the Council is said to be devising? Does he say definitely that this is not a public document and that the people in the area who have to act in the light of it will not know what they are having to act in the light of?

All I said was that naturally a private and confidential report from one Minister to his colleagues in the Cabinet cannot be published in that form. I take note of what the hon. Gentleman says about wishing to have a document published giving the substance of the Government's decision as to the future of the North-East.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what detailed inquiries he has conducted into the nature and causes of unemployment on Tees-side and longterm trends in industrial development due to technological change in prosperous industries.

The inter-departmental group, which is assisting my noble Friend, is studying the nature and causes of unemployment on Tees-side and the implications for employment prospects there of technological change. When this initial examination is completed, which he hopes will be soon, my noble Friend will consider what further studies are required.

Has not the Lord President of the Council grasped the fact that important changes have already been announced in employment prospects on Tees-side by Imperial Chemical Industries? In view of this fact, why is it not possible to make provision now for the anticipated reduction of employement over the period of the next five years?

I have read the exchanges which the hon. Gentleman had with my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade. Certainly my noble Friend is well aware of the likely consequences of the technological changes in the chemical industry.

Is my hon. Friend aware that those of us who welcomed the appointment of Lord Hailsham hope that he will not find a few short-term palliatives but will find a long-term remedy, not just for Tees-side, Wearside or Tyneside, but for the whole area, and will take into account the changes which are taking place in industries such as shipbuilding and marine engineering? Will my hon. Friend give a specific undertaking that when the Lord President of the Council prepares his report for submission to the Cabinet there will be a public form of the document to give guidance both to private and nationalised industries so that all may help in reviving the area?

In reply to the first point, my noble Friend is keen to look at the problems of the region as a whole and to draw up a plan which looks at the region as a whole. As to the publication of the document, I cannot give any undertaking today, but I will certainly bring to my noble Friend's attention the demand which has come from both sides of the House that a version of this document shall be made public when the Government have decided their policy thereon.

Is it not a fact that when the hon. Gentleman's noble Friend was explaining the terms of his appointment in another place he made it specifically clear that the Prime Minister had requested him to provide a definite plan for the North-East? Therefore, this definite plan must come before the House of Commons for discussion.

We are really talking about two things. First, we are talking about a detailed report containing proposals which one may call a plan, which my noble Friend will make to his colleagues in the Government. Further than that, there is not my noble Friend's plan but the Government's plan, and I take note of the desire of the House that the Government's plan shall be published.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, (1) what employment opportunities he expects will accrue for juveniles in the North-East during 1963, as a result of the recommendations of the Lord President of the Council;

My noble Friend anticipates that a considerable increase in employment both for juveniles and for adults will result from the various decisions taken to assist the North-East. But he cannot now estimate how much of this increase will arise in 1963.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that, despite everything he has said and despite everything the Government are doing, if migration from the North-East is to be halted and if provision is to be made for school leavers and men who will lose jobs in industries such as mining, shipbuilding and railways, almost 70,000 additional jobs will be needed in the next twelve months? How does his noble Friend intend to deal with this tremendous problem?

Decisions taken now, when the year is already more than a quarter over, can only have a marginal effect on unemployment during the remainder of the year. It is the decisions which the Government have already taken which will affect employment prospects during 1963. I would remind the hon. Gentleman of the Admiralty shipbuilding orders worth £10 million, the £400,000 extension of roadworks and the increase in investment by the electricity boards in the North-East, as well as in other areas of high unemployment, to indicate that we have already taken steps to provide more employment in this area.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary say whether his noble Friend has gone into the question of the number of jobs needed each year over the next four or five years to take up known redundancy and expected redundancy? Could he give the figure to which the Government are working and the number of jobs needed?

If the hon. Gentleman will put down a specific Question, I will do my best to answer it.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what measures he proposes to prevent migration through economic necessity in the North-East.

In reply to an earlier Question, I mentioned a number of measures taken by the Goverment which are likely to assist the economy of the North-East and so to reduce the incentives to migrate from the Region. Further measures on which the Government decide in the light of my noble Friend's proposals will be announced by the Departmental Ministers concerned.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that, during the past five years, we have lost 30,000 mining jobs in the North-East, and does he realise that there are today 50,000 families in the North-East experiencing real personal difficulty and anxiety? Does he recall that the North-East Development Council advocates the creation of 15,000 jobs each year so that the area may be on a level with the rest of the country? Is not a national plan required to check migration from the North-East to the increasingly congested South?

The essential thing is to remove the incentive to migration; in other words, to try to stimulate activity in the North-East. This is what the decisions already taken by the Government, including the very advantageous financial provisions in the Budget, are designed to do.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in the past three months 34 firms have been encouraged to examine the possibilities of development in the North-East? Is not this most promising for the checking of migration? Further, is my hon. Friend aware that a leading London banker, speaking in Newcastle-upon-Tyne two weeks ago, suggested that we should highlight our employment opportunities and expanding prosperity rather than unduly emphasise our problems, because to do the latter gave the wrong impression in other parts of the country?

I believe that if one always talks of the North-East as a place which is attractive for industry to go to one will find it far easier to induce industry to go there. I believe that the free depreciation for plant and machinery and the new increased grants under the Local Employment Bill which have been announced within the past few months will give a substantial incentive to firms to go to the North-East.

We are not interested in what the hon. Gentleman believes. What we want to know is when we may look for fruitful results in consequence of the Lord President's investigations. On the subject of migration, is the hon. Gentleman aware that ever since the Lord President assumed responsibility for the North-East there has been more migration than ever? How does he intend to stop this?

The right hon. Gentleman knows very well that the measures announced in the Budget and the measures which are to become law if Parliament gives us the Local Employment Bill cannot possibly have had their full measure of success by now.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what consultations the Lord President had with the clerks to the urban district councils of Stanley add Consett in the county of Durham, on the occasion of his visit to the North-East and since, regarding the possibility and desirability of the siting of new industries in these two urban areas.

My noble Friend has had discussions with representatives of all the local authorities in the region, including the urban district councils of Consett and Stanley. His recommendations to his colleagues will take into account the various points made to him in regard to the siting of new industry.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that recent conversations I have had with the clerks to Stanley Urban District Council and to Consett Urban District Council revealed that they are not aware of any consultation with them by the Lord President of the Council? Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that of all people concerned the clerks to the district councils are more conversant with the needs and opportunities in their districts, particularly as regards the siting of new industry? Would it not be a grave omission if the Lord President of the Council failed to take their views into consideration?

My noble Friend first sees the councils themselves. It is up to the councils to choose the people whom they wish to represent them, but my noble Friend is always pleased to receive representations and suggestions from people in the area with such wide experience of its problems as the clerks to the local authorities.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, if he will consult the Minister of Education and the Minister of Labour on proposals to provide a solution to juvenile unemployment in the Blaydon area.

My noble Friend is already in touch with his colleagues about proposals to reduce juvenile unemployment throughout the North-East. As Blaydon is a development district, it should benefit from the Government's measures to expand the economy and to steer new industry into the area.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there are about 200 school-leavers registered in Blaydon who just cannot find a job? Are there any long-term plans to co-ordinate the work of the various Government Departments which must be involved in implementing any policy affecting unemployment in Blaydon?

So far as juvenile unemployment is a reflection of the larger problem, the decisions already taken by the Government and those which will be taken will be of considerable help. According to my information, the number of juveniles unemployed in the Blaydon area fell from 164, or 9·1 per cent., in March to 139, or 6·7 per cent., in April, so there is a small improvement.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, whether he will consult the President of the Board of Trade, the Minister of Public Building and Works and the Service Ministers with a view to expediting the placing of contracts, both civil and military, so as to reduce redundancy and short-time working at Vickers-Armstrongs engineering works, Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

Yes, Sir. He has done so and will continue to do so.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that if he has done so it has produced no result and that in this, the biggest engineering works in the North-East, there has been a large number of redundancies and that skilled workmen who have been employed there for twenty years or more are now having to draw National Assistance? Is it not a disgrace that skilled men who helped to win the war and on whom this country has depended in the past are now being forced to eke out their wages by drawing National Assistance? Will the Government get to work and do something about this situation in the very near future?

As the hon. Gentleman will recall, on 8th May my hon. Friend the Civil Lord of the Admiralty announced that one Leander frigate would be constructed at Vickers in Newcastle.

But that is a different works. I am talking about Vickers-Armstrongs (Engineers). That is Vickers-Armstrongs (Shipbuilders). The hon. Gentleman has got it all mixed up and does not know the facts.

The main aim is to get activity going in the North-East. This is of prime importance. My noble Friend, naturally, cannot give one firm any particular preference over another.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what action he has now taken following the representations made to him by the corporation of Sunderland on his visit to Sunderland on 6th February.

The Sunderland Corporation's representations have been taken fully into account for the purpose of the reports that my noble Friend has already made and will be making to his colleagues.

Surely the Parliamentary Secretary knows that a reply like this is completely unsatisfactory and that it is time that something was done. We have a desperate unemployment position in Sunderland. This sort of flippant attitude, that after months we are still awaiting reports, really will not do.

I disagree with almost every word that the hon. Gentleman has said, which does not seem to me to accord with the facts.

Is my hon. Friend aware that some of us take his Answer quite seriously and that we should like a Government decision on the issue of a scrap-and-build policy, for at the moment the absence of a decision is potentially holding up the placing of British ship-owners' orders for new ships?

I note what my hon. Friend says and will bring it to the attention of my noble Friend.

Can the hon. Gentleman say when some action will be taken about Sunderland?

Sunderland naturally is sharing in the general measures to reactivate the economy which the Government have taken and the other special measures which will spread over the North-East.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what steps he is taking to assess the need for the placing of alternative work in some of the shipyards in Sunderland.

My noble Friend is aware of the need of some of the Shipyards in Sunderland for alternative work. He has also studied the report produced by the team appointed by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Public Building and Works to consider the feasibility of spare capacity in shipyards being devoted to the manufacture of building products.

Now that we have had this valuable and helpful report, may I again ask the Parliamentary Secretary When we shall have some action? At least a couple of yards on the Wear are facing a pretty desperate position. One of them is very concerned about doing alternative work if it could have the opportunity, but this needs a good deal of action by the Government. Advice is not sufficient.

The essential thing, of course, is to have a point of contact between the shipbuilders, the shipbuilding industry, and the potential clients, and it is to provide such a point of contact that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Public Building and Works has established an office in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply to Question No. 17 and all the others, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman must confine himself to Question No. 20, because the time for giving notice about the preceding Questions is past.

asked the Minister of Aviation if the requirements which he originally postulated as to ownership and share of receipts have been embodied in the terms of the agreement he has entered into with Sheraton Motels Ltd. for the building of the proposed hotel at Prestwick Airport.

Yes, Sir; but my right hon. Friend is now prepared to grant a longer ground lease than was originally offered.

In view of the fact that the plan to deal with the development of Prestwick Airport was originally announced in 1957 or 1958, could the hon. Gentleman tell us what progress has been made in fulfilling that plan and, in particular, when he thinks that work on the hotel buildings will be started?

The reason for the delay has been the negotiations to get the agreement with Sheraton Motels. I hope that work will start as soon as this agreement is satisfactorily concluded and that the hotel will be completely by 1965.

Purely as regards the hotel, has my hon. Friend satisfied himself that Mr. Douglas Henderson, who is said to be associated with Sheraton Motels Ltd., has the financial resources necessary to enable him to carry through this rather substantial project, because there is a lot of talk going on in Ayrshire that he has not?

The agreement with Sheraton Motels is subject to my right hon. Friend being satisfied as to the financial arrangements and the completion of formal contract within three months. If these conditions are not fulfilled the agreement will lapse.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the development of the central terminal building is tied up with the development of the hotel? Did not he observe that fact when he was at Prestwick the other day? Could the hon. Gentleman answer that part of my question?

But this is not holding up the development of the central terminal building.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will issue a general instruction to British European Airways and British Overseas Airways Corporation that the departure of aircraft is not to be delayed, and passengers inconvenienced, for the benefit of unpunctual individuals, and that the regulations requiring passengers to arrive at airports well in advance of departure times are not to be waived in deference to such persons because they are deemed to have V.I.P. status.

No, Sir. Arrangements concerning punctual arrival of passengers or departure of aircraft are matters of airline management. They thus fall within the commercial responsibility of the Corporations or other operators.

Does not the airport control tower indicate to aircraft when they can take off and is not that within the responsibility of the Minister? For the information of the House, can the Minister tell us something about this matter and who the persons are who are allowed these special privileges?

Any aircraft gives the airport control authorities the time when it expects to go, but if for some reason it is delayed it simply loses its place in the queue and is fitted in as soon as possible.

asked the Minister of Aviation for how long the departure for Athens on 30th April of an aircraft with a number of passengers on board was delayed because the Queen of Greece was late in arriving at London Airport.

I am informed that the aircraft in question left 12 minutes late.

Why was it delayed?

The decision of the airline concerned was to wait until all the passengers were on board.

The Minister cannot dodge the question like that. Is not he aware that it was put out by his public relations officers and others that the delay was for the Queen of Greece to arrive? Why should this be done? If a foreign royalty is on a private and unofficial visit to this country, as we were told this was, why should everybody else be inconvenienced in this way?

It is none of my business, and, I venture to suggest, none of the hon. Gentleman's business, when an aircraft belonging to a Greek airline takes off from this country, or when that airline is satisfied that all its passengers are on board. It is no responsibility of mine whatever when the users of London Airport scheduled air services, or private airlines, or public airlines, choose to take off.

Can my right hon. Friend imagine the circumstances under which the hon. Member for Barking (Mr. Driberg) would have asked a similar question if, instead of the head of a friendly State being involved, the head of a hostile Iron Curtain country were involved?

There were some elements of a hypothetical question in that.

On a point of order. May I ask for your guidance, Mr. Speaker? These two Questions were scrutinised with special care by the Clerks at the Table—by the Table Office—and they were admitted to the Order Paper because it was considered, no doubt after special inquiry from the Ministry, that they were within the scope of the Minister's responsibility. The right hon. Gentleman has dodged answering both of them. Could you give me your guidance, Mr. Speaker?

We work on what is a prima facie case, which it was thought existed here. The result does not govern the Minister, I am afraid. He is responsible for what he answers or does not answer.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will give a general direction, in the public interest, to British European Airways to take into account, in planning the timing and frequency of the civil air services between Scotland and England, the proposals in the Beeching Report.

I do not doubt that British European Airways will take full account of any changes in the railway services in determining its own timetables and frequencies. I accordingly see no cause, at this stage, for any general direction.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that that part of the Beeching Report which is designed to isolate the north of Scotland conflicts with the policy of the President of the Board of Trade and the Secretary of State for Scotland, whose professed policy is to stimulate and develop trade, industry, commerce and employment in these parts? Will the right hon. Gentleman therefore consult those Ministers with a view to having some kind of coordinated policy for the north of Scotland?

I have done more than that, and I hope that it will command the hon. and learned Gentleman's agreement. I arranged the other day for my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to make a special tour of the airports in Scotland, including those in the Highlands and Islands, to see what more we could do to assist economic development in that part of the country.

asked the Minister of Aviation why, in view of the fact that the British Overseas Airways Corporation now announce that they will have ten aircraft too many following re-equipment with the Boeing 707 and VC10, the orders still outstanding last year for an additional three 707's at a cost of over £6 million were not cancelled.

B.O.A.C. placed this order for three further Boeing 707 aircraft in early 1961. Its purpose was to meet an anticipated shortage of large jet capacity and to improve its competitive position between then at the time of the order and the coming into service of the VC10. The order is thus unaffected by B.O.A.C.'s reappraisal of its traffic forecasts for the later years.

The anticipated shortage of jet capacity did not materialise. Did not many people point out early last year, including the magazine Flight International, that the over-capacity which B.O.A.C. was already experiencing would be intensified? Therefore, was there not a good argument for the cancellation of the outstanding orders for these aircraft?

No, I do not think so. I think that B.O.A.C. takes the view—and I see no reason to disagree with the Corporation—that it needs these aircraft in the period before the VC10 comes into service.

Why were the Comets taken out of service if B.O.A.C. did not have enough jet capacity?

Because the passenger appeal of the Boeing 707 is, I regret to say, greater.

asked the Minister of Aviation (1) if he will make a statement on the revised operating policy of British Overseas Airways Corporation;

I would ask the hon. Gentleman to await the debate later this afternoon, when I shall try to deal more fully with this subject.

asked the Minister of Aviation what steps he is taking to help and encourage the British aircraft manufacturing industry to increase its sales within the Commonwealth; and if he will make a statement.

I would refer my hon. friend to my reply to the hon. Member for St. Helens (Mr. Spriggs) on 8th April. This explained the principal ways in which my Department tries to assist the aircraft industry, including support for its efforts to increase sales to the Commonwealth.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that all possible sales are being made to the Commonwealth? In view of the recent statement by the Leader of the Opposition, will my right hon. Friend consult him to see what ideas, if any, he had when he made that statement, so that we can benefit workers in the aircraft industry immediately?

I am never satisfied that we are doing all we can, but I am quite sure that, on the whole, opinion in the aircraft industry thoroughly deprecates what the Leader of the Opposition said concerning the exports to South Africa. Nothing could be more damaging to our export policy, not only to South Africa, but to other countries also.

Are we to take it that the Minister is in favour of the policy of apartheid to the extent of providing weapons for the purpose?

If that is what the hon. Member thinks, I suppose he concludes that the sale of Viscounts to China means that the Conservative Government are in favour of the Mao Tse-tung line.

Did the Australian decision to buy the Boeing 727 rather than the Trident contain any lessons for my right hon. Friend's Department? If so, what action has he taken as a result of learning them?

We tried very hard to persuade the Australians to buy the Trident. We did not pull any punches or lose any opportunity of getting our wares across in this campaign. We cannot be blamed for the decision.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the complaints which I have heard from time to time, and that correspondence on the subject has been directed to hon. Members from Australia as regards both the sale of British aircraft and the production of British naval vessels in Australia to the effect that our public relations are most unsatisfactory—[Interruption.]—and that we do not advertise or boost our wares sufficiently? Will the Minister have discussions with the High Commissioner for Australia on this subject?

I have had a good deal of consultation. We are in continual contact with the High Commissioner and I have discussed with the industry what more we can do to promote exports. Certainly, we are always glad to receive chapter and verse on any detailed point where we fall short.

asked the Minister of Aviation (1) if he will make a statement on the plans under considera-

asked the Minister of Aviation the value of production and of research and development contracts, respectively, placed with Short Brothers and Harland in each of the past ten years; and what was their proportion to the total of contracts placed with the British aircraft industry as a whole, in each year.

I regret that the information is not available in the precise form asked for by my han. Friend. I can, however, give an estimate of the value of work done by Short's in each of these years as a percentage of the work done by the industry as a whole. A similar calculation can also be made in respect of direct Government contracts.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the apprehension which is felt particularly in the research and design section of Short Brothers? In view of this firm's successful record in the past for such things as vertical take-off, and also of the continuing high unemployment in Northern Ireland, will my right hon. Friend do all he can to place further research and development work with Short's as soon as possible?

We are always considering opportunities of this kind.

Birmingham Corporation has put forward proposals for extending the main runway to a total length of 7,000 ft. Its plans are being examined by the Ministry of Aviation to ensure that they comply with the safety clearances required in accordance with international practices. Birmingham Corporation is fully aware of the need to minimise noise and other nuisances.

Is my hon. Friend aware that one of the runways goes very close indeed to houses in Marston Green, that these houses are built on higher ground than the runway and that the local residents feel that if the runway is extended in this way, it will expose them to unnecessary danger?

Yes, we were aware of those facts when the decision was taken. The proposed extension will bring the end of the runway closer to houses on the south-west side of Marston Green, but those houses will still be well outside the zone in which building is restricted for safety reasons.

Does my hon. Friend recognise that what Birmingham needs most is greater use of the existing runways to provide more direct services with countries abroad to help the export trade?

Yes, I very much appreciate that point, and I hope that the day will come.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether design work on the new civil airport at Abbotsinch has been submitted and accepted.

The architects have prepared a design to our specification; whilst some details remain to be settled, the general layout is agreed and working drawings are being prepared.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that on 5th June, 1961, I was informed by either his predecessor or the predecessor before his predecessor—changes have been so rapid that the hon. Gentleman will understand the position—that Basil Spence and Partners had been appointed as architects and work was starting at once? Have they been engaged for nearly two years on this aspect of the work? When will something material arise at Abbotsinch?

If and when the negotiations with Glasgow Corporation are satisfactorily concluded. The Royal Navy will stop flying in July and will leave in November of this year. After that, if an agreement is reached, work will start. Clearly, however, we will not start work until we get agreement.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Minister of Defence, when Minister of Aviation, informed the House that Abbotsinch would be completed in 1963? He also said when making that statement that his mind was perfectly clear about what he was saying. Can the hon. Gentleman tell us that he will honour that promise made by the Government?

That promise was clearly made subject to negotiation. There are two sides to a negotiation, and when it is concluded, if it is concluded satisfactorily, this will go ahead.

As that promise or so-called promise was made to me—

The hon. Member is a liar.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Rankin) has just referred to my hon. Friend as a liar. Is that strictly in order?

rose—

Does the hon. Member wish to explain something?

Yes, Mr. Speaker. There is absolutely no record in HANSARD to bear out what the hon. Member for Ayr (Sir T. Moore) is saying. The question was put by me, the answer was given to me, and if I said he was a liar that was a lapsus linguae.

Do I understand that by the use of Latin words the hon. Member indicates that he wholly withdraws the expression?

Yes, I have achieved my purpose.

The hon. Member quite clearly referred to my hon. Friend as a liar. He has not apologised. Surely, he should apologise and withdraw in the proper way, in conformity with the practice of the House.

The hon. Member has withdrawn the allegation. If he had not, I should have been obliged instantly to order him to do so.

I am sorry to stir up all this business, but is it not a fact that no decision has yet been reached in regard to the future use of Abbotsinch as an alternative to Renfrew Airport?

The hon. Gentleman does not know what he is talking about. That is not true.

No decision has yet been reached because negotiations are still going on. Indeed, there is a meeting today with Glasgow Corporation and officials of the Ministry of Aviation.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance why the Government prefer to rely on bilateral agreements with other countries rather than ratify Convention No. 118 of the International Labour Organisation which provides for equal treatment as between nationals and non-nationals in social security matters.

Because, as indicated in Command Paper Number 1993 it is only by bilateral agreements that the varying provisions of different countries can be dovetailed in a foreseeable way. I should add that Convention 118 does not deal only with equality of treatment as between nationals and non-nationals, but also contains complicated provisions concerning, among other matters, residence conditions, the payment of family allowances and other benefits abroad, and the preservation of rights acquired in different countries.

While appreciating the reasoning behind that reply, may I ask whether the Minister is satisfied that bilateral arrangements are comprehensive enough to cover British nationals abroad as we would wish? May I ask about the position of a British coach driver who takes a party of holidaymakers on a tour of several countries? Is it not the case that although he is insured under our scheme he is not covered under our scheme for an accident abroad unless we have bilateral arrangements with those countries, and that it depends on whether we have bilateral arrangements? Would the right hon. Gentleman look into that position to see whether he is giving as comprehensive cover as he should in those circumstances?

I shall certainly look into that particular problem, but I am not at all certain in any case that it would be covered by our adherence to this particular Convention.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he will amend the regulations for industrial injury benefit so as to provide that a person who is forcibly suspended from work on suspicion of suffering from a prescribed disease is entitled to draw industrial injury benefit during suspension, even though the suspicion is not subsequently confirmed.

Neither the Industrial Injuries Act nor the regulations made under it require a person to be suspended from work on suspicion of suffering from a prescribed disease. The hon. Lady may have in mind regulations, which are the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour, under which persons in certain occupations may be suspended from employment by an appointed factory doctor. But it would not be appropriate to amend the Industrial Injuries scheme so as to provide for the payment of benefit where no industrial injury or disease has in fact been suffered.

But is the right hon.. Gentleman aware that Mrs. Killingbeck, of Blackburn, was recently suspended by the factory inspector from her work as a battery operative at Messrs. Park Brothers as she was suspected of suffering from industrial injury, that is, lead poisoning, but as it was later found that the amount of lead she had absorbed was below the level of tolerance she was refused industrial injury benefit although the reason for her suspension from work was entirely related to the nature of her work? Is it not quite wrong in such a situation that industrial injury benefit should be refused? Will the right hon. Gentleman amend the Regulations to cover these cases?

No. Some people are suspended because their health has been injuriously affected; others are suspended for preventive reasons, because it is suspected that their health may have been affected, or may be affected if they continue. In this case, the second case, it is open to the individual to obtain sickness benefit or unemployment benefit as the case may be, but a person cannot obtain industrial injury benefit unless it is shown that an injury has been suffered, or that some prescribed disease has been discovered.

Does the Minister think that it is fair that a woman who is suspended because it is suspected that she is suffering from lead poisoning should be told by the right hon. Gentleman that she should ask for sickness benefit when she is not in fact sick? Does he not realise that she has suffered pecuniary loss, and should not somebody make it up?

No. If somebody is suspended he normally goes to see his doctor, who will give him a medical certificate straight away, in which case he gets sickness benefit straight away, and he can apply for industrial injury benefit, which he may or may not get. This is decided by the statutory authority. Alternatively he will get unemployment benefit.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he will introduce amending legislation to enable a man who is separated from his wife and paying a weekly sum of 40s. towards her maintenance to be paid an adult dependant's allowance when he is in receipt of sickness or unemployment benefit.

No, Sir. I do not consider that a man who is separated from his wife should receive an allowance for her as his dependant unless he is contributing towards her maintenance at least as much as the standard weekly rate of the allowance, which is now 41s. 6d.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that one of my constituents up to 7th April this year who was on sickness benefit and paying 40s. per week towards his wife's maintenance on a court order was receiving 35s. as his adult dependant's allowance of this sickness benefit, and after the increase in the adult dependant's allowance of 41s. 6d. this payment ceased, leaving him 35s. a week worse off? Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that this is an anomalous situation which in many cases makes the whole position almost farcical? Will not he consider amending the appropriate Section of the Act?

I am aware of the case to which the hon. Gentleman refers. It is before the appeal tribunal at the present time, and I cannot comment on it, but I understand that the position is that before the change in the rates of benefits it was possible for the man to make his contribution of 35s. There is a court order involved in this case and as Minister I have nothing to do with that order. All I can do is to make certain that the particular requirements of the National Insurance Act are complied with, and that means in this case that the man should at least be contributing as much to his wife as the standard weekly rate of increase. After that, he can, if he falls out of employment, receive dependant's allowance.

Do not these cases want looking at where the difference is very small between two amounts, and whether it is a case of amending legislation or of further regulations, would not the Minister feel these people who are just near the appropriate rate get a rather fairer deal than they seem to be getting at present?

It is really a question here of drawing a line, and wherever it is drawn there will be some objection from some quarter. The present proposition does not seem unreasonable. If a person is to receive a dependency allowance he should be contributing, while he is in employment, at least its amount towards his wife with whom he is not living.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance how many widows within the jurisdiction of his Accrington office are now being paid pensions of 10s. per week.

I regret that the information asked for is not available for particular localities.

That is a pity, but is the Minister aware that there is quite a number of these distressing cases in my division, as in others, and will not he in the near future at least bring this 10s. up to the same purchasing power as it had when it was first awarded?

I am not aware that there are distressing cases of this kind. Most of these ladies are in employment and where they are not in employment they would be able to get National Assistance to help them meet their requirements. If the hon. Gentleman is aware of any cases which are distressing I shall be grateful if he will bring them to my attention.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the decision of the North-West Metropolitan Regional Hospital Board on the appointment of a third consultant at Three Counties Hospital, Arlesey, he will review the personal position of Dr. R. S. Russell to ensure that he suffers no loss of status or remuneration as a result.

No, Sir.

Will my hon. Friend not agree that Dr. Russell has lost a con- siderable allowance through no professional fault of his but simply because of an administrative rearrangement at this hospital? Why was it that the regional hospital board did not recommend him for another post, the duties of which he showed himself manifestly able to fulfil? Will not my hon. Friend make further representations.

Dr. Russell's allowance of £550 has been withdrawn because on reorganisation he no longer does the work which it covered. I understand he was told, when granted the allowance, that the arrangement was temporary. Dr. Russell applied for the new consultant job. The board, professionally advised, appointed another candidate. I am afraid, therefore, that there is nothing here to justify inquiry or intervention by my right hon. Friend.

On a point of order. While recognising the limitations of my hon. Friend in this case, in view of what seems to me to be the gross unfairness of it—

The hon. Member is not permitted to make fancy speeches instead of giving notice, because it cancels the time for somebody else's Question.

asked the Minister of Health how many maternal deaths occurred in the years 1958–60; in how many of these were found contributory factors which could be regarded as avoidable; and how many were ascribed to unwise arrangements for the confinement.

928; 315; at least 80.

While not wishing to get these very grave figures out of perspective, may I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he will issue an instruction that all house officers dealing with confinements shall have no option but to call a senior consultant in the event of complications, and will he remind general practitioners of the criteria to be established before booking any mother-to-be for home confinement?

I would not seek in any way to minimise the seriousness of these figures, though I am happy to say that the maternal mortality rate has continued to fall. I take note of what the hon. Gentleman says. Perhaps I should add that we have no evidence that where the avoidable factor was failure to book for a hospital confinement it was in any case due to a shortage of maternity beds.

Mr. Delargy.

Question No. 45.

I thought that the hon. Gentleman was rising in the ordinary course to put a supplementary question, and I called him accordingly.

But mine is the next Question, Mr. Speaker.

The difficulty about that is that it is now after the appointed hour for Questions.