asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what progress is being made in implementing the scheme for British Aid to Commonwealth English announced at the second Commonwealth Education Conference last year.

The scheme envisaged the recruitment and training of 30 experts in the teaching of English who would be on the staff of the British Council. So far 10 of these additional specialists have been recruited and are now completing further training at British universities prior to taking up posts in six Commonwealth countries.

While welcoming what my right hon. Friend had to say about that, may I ask him whether in all these plans any provision has been made for the further teaching of Basic English, which I believe to be the most potent means of simply teaching English to unsophisticated peoples which now exists?

While seeing the great merit in theory of what my hon. Friend says, we have found in practice that Basic English has so far proved a disappointing means of communication and that it is full English, as it were, which most people seem to want to learn.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation if he will review the British contribution to the United Nations Expanded Programme of Technical Assistance and to the Special Fund; if he will increase the contribution for the 1963 programme and pledge a large contribution for 1964; and if he will take steps to persuade other governments to do likewise.

The British contributions to these funds in 1963 were the result of a most careful review. They represent a 25 per cent. increase over 1962, and I fear that they must be regarded as final for this year. The level of contributions for 1964 will be considered in the autumn. Her Majesty's Government will certainly do their best to support the United Nations in its attempts to obtain contributions from its members.

May I appeal to the right hon. Gentleman to think in terms of a big increase for 1964 when this matter is under review in the autumn? Will he acknowledge that when we supported the resolutions on the U.N. Development Decade eighteen months ago we pledged ourselves, and other countries pledged themselves, to a big expansion in this work, but until now expansion has not measured up to what was intended then? Can he think in terms of a big increase in 1964 and subsequent years?

One would like to make a big increase in all these things, and what the hon. Member has said will be borne in mind, but I am sure that he will be the first to agree that we must consider the whole of our aid programme and not simply one portion of it, however important that may be.

Is it not of special importance that in 1964 the full target of 100 million dollars for this Special Fund should be attained? Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that if we increase our contribution we secure a further additional contribution from the United States?

Certainly, and I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will be aware that we have already set a fairly good example with a 25 per cent. increase and that we are and always have been the second largest contributor.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what forward planning is taking place in his Department to help the Voluntary Societies' Committee for Service Overseas increase the number of volunteers going to work in developing countries; and if he will make a statement on the scale of the increases anticipated in the next few years.

Discussions are at the moment in progress with the voluntary societies and other bodies concerned about plans for 1964–65. I will make a statement as soon as possible about the result of these considerations.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of us would prefer to see the establishment of some British equivalent of the American Peace Corps to do this job? Failing that, I welcome what the right hon. Gentleman said and ask him to give careful consideration to extending the number of graduate volunteers. I believe that 250 are going this year under the auspices of this Committee. Is his Department thinking in terms of a much larger number in subsequent years?

I would not like to forecast the numbers. I hope that when I make a statement it will be an optimistic and expanding one.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation if be will state the total sums of technical assistance which have now been granted to coun- tries overseas in respect of projects specifically designed to provide work in development areas in this country.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation whether he will now announce further projects of technical assistance to countries overseas providing work for development districts in Scotland.

My Department is mainly concerned with sending experts abroad and bringing students and trainees to this country. There is very little scope in technical assistance programmes for using surplus productive capacity in the United Kingdom. Such use of surplus productive capacity is capital aid and outside the scope of my Department.

Nevertheless, while I appreciate the point, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that this kind of activity is one which kills two birds with one stone, as it helps development areas in this country and helps development areas elsewhere? Will he use all his influence to see that this type of aid is stepped up?

I shall certainly bear that in mind, and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has already, by action, shown his understanding of that point.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that sending experts abroad and bringing students here on fellowships has led to large orders for British equipment, and that in fact on all the money which we have given for technical assistance, for the Special Fund, and even for the International Bank, we have made a large margin of profit in foreign exchange?

I very much agree with the right hon. Gentleman, and I appreciate what he says about this. Indeed, in the long run there can be no better aid to British trade, for the development areas and elsewhere than to bring as many people here to train and send as many of our people abroad as possible.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation whether, when overseas appointments are filled, preference is given to those with previous overseas service.

Previous overseas experience is regarded as a strong qualification. Of the 1,042 vacancies filled by my Department in 1962, 247 successful candidates had previous overseas experience.

Of the thousand or so jobs that he has filled, can my right hon. Friend say how many demanded the special skills of the former overseas civil servant, and whether before he fills them he consults the Overseas Resettlement Bureau?

Dealing with the latter point first, I assure my hon. Friend that the particulars of every vacancy of which we know are sent to the Overseas Resettlement Bureau so that we make sure that people with previous overseas experience can be considered. I cannot give my hon. Friend figures about the number of vacancies which specifically require the skills of those with previous overseas experience in Government service. They obviously are considerable. Nevertheless, it is also true that these developing countries are increasingly wanting new skills, and this is why the old overseas people have to be supplemented with new people.

Can my right hon. Friend say what progress is being made with the project of his predecessor, that of transferring people who are becoming redundant in Africa as a result of independence to Latin America?

Perhaps I might be allowed to look into that and write to my hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation when he intends to publish a further report on the activities of his Department.

The Government intend to publish a White Paper on Overseas Aid generally before the Summer Recess and this document will, of course, include a section on the work of my Department.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the House welcomes the news of a White Paper on this? Will he also realise that, whereas the first report of the Department he now heads was of a somewhat preliminary character, it left open a number of issues, and a number of inquiries to be made, upon which I think the House would welcome more information?

I shall certainly bear that in mind.

Will the White Paper include the tabulated report of the work referred to in the previous Question, showing what sort of posts are being filled, where they are being filled, by whom, and so on?

I shall also bear that point in mind.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what further proposals he has to encourage more teachers from this country to take teaching posts for a few years in those countries which are unable to meet their educational needs from their own resources.

In 1962, 270 teachers were recruited and we hope to do better this year. It is still difficult to attract the senior and experienced teachers who are especially in demand. I shall be consulting the National Council for the Supply of Teachers Overseas about further steps to improve recruiting.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a demand for thousands of teachers in these countries? Is he further aware that many teachers are reluctant to take short-term teaching posts overseas because of possible adverse effects on their careers in this country? What discussions is my right hon. Friend having with local education authorities and universities to see whether some scheme can be devised to that overseas service helps and does not damage their careers in this country?

I have the last point very much in mind, and one piece of work done by the National Council for the Supply of Teachers Overseas has been to draw up what I might call a code of secondment which, among other things, takes my hon. Friend's point into account. We shall certainly be pursuing this actively with the local authorities. With regard to the supply, I know that there is great need, and although I can do no more than hope, my hope is that last year's figure will be substantially succeeded.

How does the right hon. Gentleman fit this in with the difficulty that there is an enormous shortage of teachers here?

I think that the House must accept, and does accept, that this important matter of overseas aid demands some considerable self-denial in this country.

Of the 270 teachers referred to, does my right hon. Friend know how many of these might have gone to East Africa, where they are so vitally needed?

There is another Question about East Africa. I am afraid that I cannot give my hon. Friend that figure straight away, but I shall certainly write to him.

asked the Secretary of State for Technical Co-operation what progress has been made in the production and use of television films for teaching English overseas.

The B.B.C., with help from the British Council, has produced an elementary course of English by Television, in thirty-nine lessons, designed for general audiences. It has sold these lessons to a number of countries. The British Council and the B.B.C. have now agreed on the production of a further series of such lessons and of twelve teacher-training films. In addition, the Centre for Educational Television Overseas is in consultation with the British Council and the B.B.C. about the production of short teaching aid programmes mainly for use on television in underdeveloped countries.

While welcoming this evidence of progress in this form of teaching, can my right hon. Friend say in how many countries these films are now being used and whether they have been welcomed?

The first films are mainly in use in European countries, but the later films which we are producing are more specially designed for under-developed countries. I am sorry that I cannot give the exact number of countries offhand, but I can assure my hon. Friend that the films are welcomed and that that is why we are producing more of them.

Are any steps being taken to obtain copies of the sponsored films made by a large number of industrial and commercial companies, which can often be obtained free of charge and are extremely well done and very informative?

I am afraid that I do not know the answer to that, but I will certainly look into the matter, because I appreciate the value of the suggestion.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what basic research into the cause of migraine is being carried out by the Medical Research Council.

The aspects of the Medical Research Council's programme considered likely to throw light on the causes of migraine include studies on the blood vessels of the brain, hormone disturbances, and disorders of the special senses, particularly those of the eyes and ears.

Is the hon. Member satisfied that the work being done in this direction is extensive enough, in view of the large number of migraine sufferers in this country and the fact that we seem to be up against something of a medical mystery in this field? Is it not a fact that the funds which this country devotes to medical research in general are totally inadequate? Will the hon. Member therefore see that the sums devoted to this aspect of it are increased?

The difficulty about research into the causes of migraine is that it is really a symptom of what may turn out to be a considerable number of different states. The Medical Research Council is always ready to consider sympathetically applications which are made to it for grants for research into subjects which may have a bearing on migraine. In regard to the second part of the hon. Lady's supplementary question, I do not believe that the Medical Research Council is being kept short of money by the Government.

Does the hon. Member realise that there are 5 million sufferers from this ailment in Great Britain? Will he look a little more closely into the question of research, because it would appear that while research goes on it is not sufficiently organised and consolidated.

As far as the Medical Research Council is concerned, this work is Co-ordinated, and there is a close interchange of information. The difficulty is that research into the causes arid treatment of migraine have so far been very unrewarding, because of the large variation of precipitating factors and responses to treatment from patient to patient. It is not a single disease upon which we can turn the spearhead of attack.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what consultations have been held with the Atomic Energy of Canada Co. Ltd., regarding an exchange of technical information on heavy water reactors with the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority; and why such an exchange of information has been refused.

The hon. Member is misinformed. Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd. has recently made new proposals for the exchange of technical information with the U.K. Atomic Energy Authority on heavy water reactors, and these are under discussion.

I thank the hon. Member for that reply. Would it be right or wrong to claim that the heavy water reactor being developed in Canada may prove to be superior to the advanced gas-cooled reactor being developed in this country? If so, does he not agree that this could have serious consequences for this country and for the Atomic Energy Authority, having regard to the capital cost involved in the development of the gas-cooled reactor and the subsequent loss of the export market?

The hon. Member's premise is hypothetical, and his deductions even more so.

What kind of an answer is that?

It may be clever, but it is very silly.

If the hon. Member has no explicit information on this question, will he issue a statement relating to the supplementary question that I have raised?

The hon. Member asked me whether the Canadian reactor might not prove to be a better or more economic proposition than the advanced gas-cooled reactor. Until both are tested it is possible that one or the other will be the more satisfactory.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what method of inspection has been requested by Her Majesty's Government in order to ensure that the plutonium supplied to France is used for civil purposes and not for military purposes.

This plutonium is being supplied under the Co-operation Agreement of 1959 between the United Kingdom and the European Atomic Energy Community which contains guarantees that the material will be used solely for peaceful purposes. Inspections under the Agreement will be carried out by the Euratom Commission.

Are the hon. Member and the Government satisfied that the 1959 Agreement ensures that plutonium from this country will not be used for military purposes? In view of the declared policy of France to have an independent nuclear strike force of her own, does the hon. Member agree that a method of inspection should be embodied in any agreement we have with Euratom involving the supply of plutonium to France or any other country of the Six?

I agree that it is absolutely essential that there should be adequate powers of inspection, and adequate use of them. Article 81 of the Euratom Treaty empowers inspectors of the Euratom Security Control to have all necessary access at all times for the purpose of their duties, and under our agreement with Euratom it is open to Her Majesty's Government, by consultation and visit, to assure themselves that these safeguards and the control system are working properly.

What we are asking is not whether we have power to investigate but whether investigation has in fact taken place. Can the hon. Member tell us whether these powers are being used by us?

This is the first contract for a supply of plutonium to anybody other than the United States. As the hon. Member may know, the contract was signed in Paris yesterday, and it is therefore a little early to start inspecting where it is being used. But we have great confidence in the Euratom Security Control. Yesterday I was at the United Kingdom Euratom Continuing Committee when the subject was discussed.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what would be the cost to the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research of providing a postal computing service so that every O-level candidate in mathematics could be given practice in the elements of computer programming.

Such a service could not be provided by the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research within its present statutory responsibilities.

Is the hon. Member aware that his Department is the only one in the Government that is likely to appreciate the need for such a service, and that it would do a great deal to enliven interest in the teaching of mathematics? Will he consider offering the Minister of Education the use of such a service?

The hon. Member is wrong in not ascribing to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Education an interest in matters scientific and an interest in the teaching of mathematics equal to that which my noble Friend and I possess.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what research is being done into cryogenics and superconductivity.

Of the research establishments for which my noble Friend is responsible, the Atomic Energy Research Establishment at Harwell is carrying out work on the superconductivity of thin metallic films and on the relationship of metallic structure to superconductivity, while work on the mixing of helium III and helium IV has led to a new method of cooling to low temperatures. The Department of Scientific and Industrial Research is undertaking work on the influence of metallurgical factors and other physical variables on superconductivity and on the development of a cryotron at the National Physical Laboratory. It is also supporting work in universities.

In the United States this sort of development goes side by side with the missile programme. Is the hon. Member quite certain that the results of this research are being transferred to British industries?

I think that is the position. I should naturally be glad to receive any criticisms of which the hon. Member may have heard. There is a panel which exists to Co-ordinate and stimulate research into this subject, and very little of it in this country comes under any kind of security blanket.

I am sorry to confess my ignorance, but will my hon. Friend tell me what is the meaning of cryogenics?

Very roughly, it is doing things at extremely low temperatures.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what long-term studies are being conducted of the way in which minerals are extracted and concentrated by marine life; and what communications he has had with industry on this subject.

Research has been carried out for many years at marine laboratories in the United Kingdom, and particularly at the Plymouth Laboratory of the Marine Biological Association, on the concentration by marine animals and plants of the chemical constituents of sea water, including at the present time caesium, potassium, sodium, zinc and manganese, and in recent years strontium, iodine, niobium and vanadium. I have had no communications with industry on this subject.

Does not the hon. Member agree that the vanadium aspect is extremely important industrially? What can he do to bring this to the notice of industry?

At present most of the research is of a very basic nature, but if industry believes that there is a commercial proposition here, I have no doubt that it will have noted the hon. Member's Question and my Answer.

Can the hon. Member say whether this research covers the effect upon oysters of hot, chlorinated and slightly radioactive effluent from nuclear power stations?

Perhaps the hon. Member would be good enough to put down a Question on that point. My interest in oysters would preclude me from giving an answer off the cuff.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what research his Department undertakes into the possible effects on animal and human health of all new chemical products used in agriculture and horticulture.

Research in this field is currently being undertaken by all the four research councils, which are responsible to my noble Friend, and also by the British Industrial Biological Research Association, which is grant aided by the Department of Scientific and industrial Research. This research, as well as any applied research for which my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is responsible, is kept under review by a Committee set up by the Agricultural Research Council under the Chairman- ship of Professor Frazer of Birmingham University.

In the light of the new evidence now available about what appears to be a chain reaction between many of these chemicals and a consequent damage to human and animal health, does not the hon. Gentleman think it necessary to have a completely fresh approach to the whole problem and a much more rigorous examination of pesticides and chemicals before they are released on the market? If this is being done in America, is there any reason why we cannot do it here?

There are really two questions here. First, the research aspect. I am satisfied that the Frazer Committee is well equipped to survey and report on the state of research in this respect and to make recommendations. Regarding the commercial exploitation of chemicals, there is, of course, the voluntary notification scheme operated by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, and I think that Questions on that subject should be addressed to him.

Would my hon. Friend give an undertaking not to "double-up" unnecessarily on the semi-commercial research being undertaken in the United States and to give adequate publicity to the successful outcome of new chemical and agricultural methods, because it is only through steps forward in chemical methods that we shall be enabled to produce enough food for the country?

I agree with my hon. Friend. It is vital that the agricultural and horticultural producer should have every help that science can give him. But it is also important that we should parallel with it adequate research on the short-term and the long-term effects of all kinds of chemicals.

In view of the degree of uncertainty about the effect of these products on animal life, will the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that top priority is being given to this matter by the Government and by his Department? Is he aware that we are concerned that this should not be allowed to run on but that it should be treated as something of first-class importance, as it deserves to be?

I think it is receiving that treatment. Certainly research has been intensified since the publication of the Sanders Report.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science whether research into the causal relationship of cigarette smoking and lung cancer, undertaken by the Medical Research Council and other scientific institutions that have reported their findings to him, has fully covered the effects of inhaling smoke from tobacco that has been subjected to toxic sprays or grown in soil in which the residue of such sprays is still active.

Research workers of the Medical Research Council and others who have undertaken research on the relationship between smoking and lung cancer have taken the possible effects of toxic sprays into account and have found no evidence that these sprays are a causative factor in the production of lung cancer among cigarette smokers.

In view of the fact that we have had answers which are rather complacent—not from the hon. Gentleman but from the research people—with regard to pesticides and insecticides, is the hon. Gentleman absolutely certain that enough research has been done to enable such a categorical assurance to be given?

When the hon. Gentleman sees my original answer I think he will see that I said that no evidence had been found. I did not mean by that to express absolute certainty that no evidence would be found. Frankly, it is impossible to claim absolute certainty while the mechanism of causation of lung cancer remains uncertain. But research is going on at the Medical Research Council and a certain amount of research is financed by industry.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science if he will make it a condition of grant aid to research associations that they shall satisfy him that machinery for ensuring good management-staff relations exists.

No, Sir.

Can the hon. Gentleman give a good reason for that answer? Is not it entirely reasonable that where we are spending a considerable amount of public money we should satisfy ourselves that the minimal management-staff relationships exist, that appeals against dismissal are guaranteed and that in the research association to which we contribute tribunals do not give damning indictments of relationships which exist at the present time?

With regard to the wider point, the management of research associations are responsible to their councils and directors. It is a condition of receiving grants that they should be capable of carrying out research programmes effectively, which would not be possible if management-staff relations were poor. With regard to the case about which the hon. Lady and I have corresponded, one has to remember that the principal criterion which may be adopted by a National Insurance tribunal may not always be exactly the same as the criterion which may be adopted by an individual employer and employee.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this is a more widespread difficulty than his reply would seem to suggest? Will he look into the relationships of the staff and the technical direction of research in some of the larger research associations?

If the hon. Gentleman has any particular research association in mind, naturally I will take up the matter.

Has not the Parliamentary Secretary in correspondence with me already replied that he is not prepared to look at individual cases because administration is entirely a matter for the management?

That is true. But I am capable of passing on a letter from an hon. Member, which naturally would receive careful attention, to the directors of research associations.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what steps he is taking to encourage scientific research and development by research associations and public corporations.

My noble Friend is responsible for the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research and the Atomic Energy Authority, which support and carry out research and development. D.S.I.R. supports research associations by providing revenue grants in support of their general activities. These amounted to over £2 million in 1962–63. In addition, special grants are made for building projects and for the extension of information services, and earmarked grants for special research projects. The Atomic Energy Authority, of course, carried out a large civil research and development programme. I understand that my right hon. Friends discuss research programmes on appropriate occasions with the nationalised industries and statutory bodies with which they are concerned.

Will the hon. Gentleman make sure that more money is contributed to research associations by the large manufacturing institutions? Is he aware that there is a feeling—it seems to come out in the Report—that they are not making the contribution which ought to be made? Is he aware that many small manufacturers in this country are entirely dependent on research by public corporations and associations and that it is to help them that the research association should do more than is done at the present time?

The only way in which my noble Friend could constrain industry to contribute to research is through the use of the provisions of Section 9 of the 1947 Act. It is our constant effort to encourage industry to contribute more fully and generously to research associations, and it is by no means always the large firms in this country which are niggardly.

In taking steps to encourage contributions to research, as envisaged by the Question and the Minister's Answer, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to say what his Ministry is doing, compared with research in other countries, to ensure British supremacy in this field and what steps he is taking to apply the results of that research in a practical way to British industry and to the British way of life?

We follow carefully the arrangements in other countries with regard to research associations for cooperative research. My information is that the British Government are more generous than any other Western Government in giving general grants to such bodies.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what further consideration he has now given to the report of the ad hoc Committee on Biological Research, published as Appendix B in the Annual Report of the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy, 1961–62.

As I informed the hon. Member in reply to his Question of 19th March, substantial increases are envisaged in the expenditure of the Agricultural and Medical Research Councils and of the Nature Conservancy and of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research on grants for biological research during the coming year. The Advisory Council made clear in its Report that many of the matters touched on by the Royal Society Committee call for action within the universities. Matters of organisation will be further considered in the light of the findings of the Committee on the Organisation of Civil Science.

Can the hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that it is not shortage of money from the Treasury or the University Grants Committee which leads to the phenomenon of an enlarged biological section of the university and yet a static situation in biological research?

I do not think that there is a static situation. The bodies for which my noble Friend is responsible have substantially increased expenditure on biology.

The hon. Gentleman may say that it is not a static situation. But he knows full well that in the Report —[HON. MEMBERS: "Question."] Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in the Report the amount stated to be the minimal requirement is double the amount of money for biological research? Is it the intention of the Government to double the amount of money and increase the number of posts and to carry out not merely the money requirements but all the other requirements referred to in the Report, which was a devastating exposure of the inadequacy of biological research in this country?

As I told the House, expenditure by the bodies for which my noble Friend is responsible has been increasing. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the increased grants being made to universities which were announced only last week. Regarding the second part of the hon. Gentleman's Question, this is an independent Report by scientists who are responsible to themselves, and it is not incumbent on the Government to support their recommendations in every particular.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science how many of the scientists now working at the Atomic Energy Research Establishment at Aldermaston are likely to have to transfer to other work; and what steps he is taking to ensure that they and the engineers and surveyors who move to other Government service do not lose seniority in pay and pension rights.

As regards the first part of the Question, I have nothing to add to my statement on 19th March. The matters referred to in the last part of the Question are at present under consideration.

May we take it that most of the scientists are being retained at Aldermaston and that there should not be any great problem of redundancy, or has the position changed? As regards the engineers and surveyors, has progress been made in attracting to Aldermaston work from other Government Departments to keep them together as a team, and a very valuable team?

In answer to the first part of that question, not only is there at present not a surplus of scientists at Aldermaston, but there is none of any consequence in the rest of the Authority. Wastage rates of scientists are high, but there would have to be a substantial run-down at Aldermaston before any serious problem was likely to arise on that front. In regard to the engineering group, the major part is at Risley. It is only a subsidiary part which is stationed near Aldermaston, and I am afraid that I cannot make any statement on that today.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science when the Agricultural Research Council will complete its research into the storage of wet grain.

I am informed by the Agricultural Research Council that the Rowett Research Institute is investigating the feeding value of barley that has been stored in damp condition. The results from the first trials are expected to be available towards the end of this year. Further trials will not be completed before some time in 1964.

Is it not true that the Agricultural Research Council has been working on this problem for nearly three years now and many farmers are already storing wet grain? Surely my hon. Friend can tell us when he expects research to catch up with practice in this matter?

The Agricultural Research Council has been working on this problem from 1952. At the present moment we have investigations on a laboratory scale at the Rowett Research Institute and also on a wider scale on experimental farms run by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. When we have the results of those investigations to hand, I think we shall be in a better position to make an announcement.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science if he will set up a team of scientists to investigate the possibilities of harnessing the energy generated by an atomic explosion far below the surface of the earth.

No, Sir. The Atomic Energy Authority is in touch with work which is being done in the United States of America and Euratom. If it appears likely that this work would be a practicable and economic source of energy, it would be in a position to develop it.

Is the hon. Gentleman quite satisfied that we should be able to take full advantage of any experiment taking place in Euratom or the United States of America? Is it not possible that because we are not ourselves attracting scientists to investigate these possibilities, if there is a break-through in these sources of power we might be left behind other countries?

So far this has proved a very expensive matter. I think the hon. Member realises that nuclear energy covers so wide a field that it is impossible to put a reasonable effort into every single aspect. I am assured that if this method appeared to be a practical and economical source of energy, the Authority would be in a position to develop it.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what consideration he has given to those recommendations of the Elgood Committee on Natural Resources in Scotland which affect his Department.

These recommendations have been taken into account by the Committee on Research into Natural Resources—the Slater Committee —of the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy.

Can the hon. Gentleman say when anything is likely to be done about them, because this Report was published some time ago?

The Elgood Committee reported to the Scottish Council. Therefore, a very large part of its recommendations is the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Scotland. The Slater Report is at present under consideration by the Advisory Council which set up that Committee.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will give instructions to representatives of Her Majesty's Government at the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation Conference in Ottawa to oppose proposals for West German participation, direct or indirect, in the proposed multilateral nuclear force in the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation or in the proposed multilateral mixed crew surface fleet armed with Polaris missiles.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Ashfield (Mr. Warbey) on 14th May.

As the Prime Minister's reply on that occasion was simply "No, Sir", may I ask if he does not recognise that to allow Germany any share in the control or possession of nuclear weapons is well-nigh bound to increase suspicion, fear and tension in Europe and make it much more difficult to reach a settlement?

So far as I know, there is no proposal to give Germany control of or possession of nuclear weapons.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that Western Germany is far safer as regards the Soviet and Western Europe if she is a member of N.A.T.O. than if she is driven on her own to rearm from her own resources?

Yes, Sir. It has been the whole policy of successive Governments that Germany should be a part of the international Atlantic Alliance.

asked the Prime Minister what recent communication he has addresed to President Kennedy about a meeting; what was the nature of the reply; and when a meeting between himself and the President will take place.

asked the Prime Minister what were the circumstances in which he invited President Kennedy to meet him in Northern Ireland; and what reasons the President gave for declining the invitation.

asked the Prime Minister whether he has now reached agreement with President Kennedy on a meeting between them; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Prime Minister what progress he has made with his efforts to arrange a meeting between President Kennedy and himself during the course of the former's tour of Western Europe and Eire.

Since President Kennedy has been in office we have had six meetings. Three of these have been on British soil and three have been in the United States. We have thus met about two or three times a year. This pattern has followed that set during General Eisenhower's Presidency. We have found this arrangement convenient and have been able to fix up meetings at very short notice when we felt it convenient. No arrangements have been made for another meeting, but I have no doubt that we shall continue what I think has been a good practice.

Has not the right hon. Gentleman made a recent approach to President Kennedy for a meeting in view of his intention to visit the Republic of Ireland? If his communications are not strictly confidential, is it not possible to inform the country of what is happening? Is the right hon. Gentleman in his approach to a meeting with President Kennedy cooking up something in preparation for the next General Election?

No, Sir. I think there is some confusion. At the request of the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, since we are responsible for the foreign relations of Northern Ireland, I transmitted an invitation from the Prime Minister to a ceremony at the Giant's Causeway, but the President regretted that he could not fit that into his programme.

What is the purpose of the meeting to take place at the Giant's Causeway? Was the contemplated conversation of such secrecy that it was necessary to engage the Giant's Causeway for this purpose?

This was not a meeting I would attend, but an invitation from the Government of Northern Ireland who thought it might interest the President when he was in the Republic of Ireland to attend what I understand is to be a ceremony of some importance, and indeed of an historic character, but he said in his reply that he much regretted he was not able to do so.

Can the Prime Minister say whether he is just acting as a postman for the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland? Does he not realise that President Kennedy is going to Ireland so that he may have a couple of days' rest in a decent, intelligent, civilised country which has no missiles and no independent deterrent? Does he think that President Kennedy would want to go to Ulster to take part in an Orange Walk?

I think the President will have a nice time of rest, although when I saw something of the preliminary programme I thought it would be very difficult to get a full rest. I think it very proper, since the Government of Northern Ireland rely upon us for foreign relations, that I should transmit this request, which I did.

Has not the attention of the Prime Minister been drawn to reports from Washington in our newspapers—for instance, the Guardian of 24th April and The Times of 13th May —to the effect that the President's unwillingness to hold a conference of this kind at this moment is due to the suspicion in administrative circles that this is not unconnected with the approach of a General Election? What steps will the Prime Minister take to remove these unfortunate impressions in administrative circles due to a chronological coincidence which occurred also in 1954 and 1959?

I have seen various reports and I have seen the contradiction issued by the State Department of various statements which have been made. All I can say is that a lot of very silly things are said. In this case not only was the premise false but the inference was false.

Is not the Prime Minister very anxious to meet President Kennedy in the near future? Is it not very important that he should be able to tell President Kennedy at this moment that this country is unalterably opposed to any proposals which would involve West Germany in having any share, direct or indirect, in the use of nuclear weapons?

In the course of these meetings, which take place every four or five months, we have an opportunity of discussing this question with the President, and also of putting forward what I suppose is the view of the Labour Party on this matter.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the incidents in which unauthorised persons recently forced their way inside a Government building used by certain branches of the Security Service and took photographs of people working there.

I would refer my hon. and gallant Friend to the replies which I gave to Questions on this subject on 16th May.

While not being aware of any definite reply made by my right hon. Friend on this point, as opposed to the question of interfering with telephone lines, may I nevertheless ask him whether any arrests were made of people interfering with telephone communications or forcing their way into any of these establishments, and whether any proceedings are pending against them?

As far as my information goes, there was only one incident, and there was no question of a forcible entry. As I told the House last Thursday, a caller who said he was a reporter declined to give his name, entered the hall of the building and was then refused entry. He subsequently took a photograph of the outside. There is no offence in that and no question of prosecution therefore arises.

As reference has been made to the supplementary question about telephone calls, may I ask the Prime Minister whether the numbers have now been changed and in what form they will be made public?

Really, the right hon. Gentleman must not let failure go to his head.

Is the Prime Minister answering Questions Nos. 3 and 4 together?

No. 3 was not called. The Prime Minister answered No. 4.

Is it not a fact that photographs were taken of people going into this building and also of people inside it? Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether any photographs were taken of people going into or leaving this building? If there were any such photographs, is not this a much more serious matter than the House has so far been led to believe?

I could not answer Question No. 3, because it was withdrawn. My information is that a photograph was taken from the outside. It is difficult to make that into a crime, although I am bound to say that I can see the point made by the right hon. Gentleman. If somebody tries to hang about and to make it a habit, whether by photograph or other means, to check on all callers, that might be different, but I do not think that we can bring a prosecution against someone who just stands and takes photographs.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the request to the President of the Security Council by the chairman of the United Nations Special Committee on the Policies of Apartheid in South Africa that the report of the committee should be discussed by the Security Council as soon as possible, he will consult President Kennedy with a view to this matter being raised jointly by the delegates of the United Kingdom and the United States at the special meeting of the Security Council now in session.

No, Sir; there is no special meeting of the Security Council now in session. The Council is empowered to meet at any time and will no doubt consider the interim report of the Special Committee as soon as members think this appropriate.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the United Nations Special Committee pointed out that South Africa is now building up a military establishment far beyond its defence needs and has expressed grave anxiety and indignation at the continued provision of arms to South Africa by other Powers? Is he also aware that Chief Luthuli issued an appeal to the whole civilised world to stop supplying arms to South Africa, and that the International Commission of Jurists has described South Africa as copying some of the worst features of the Communist-Stalinist régime? In view of this, will he instruct the United Kingdom delegates, either at the Security Council or at the General Assembly, to raise this matter as one of urgency?

I think that the hon. Lady is under some misapprehension. The Security Council is not in session. It can, of course, meet if the president of the month calls it or if anybody applies for it. This report will come before the next meeting of the General Assembly and will, no doubt, be debated.

In the meantime, will the Prime Minister give his attention to the immensely important statement made by Chief Luthuli and reported in The Times this morning?

Yes, Sir. We will take that into consideration with all other relevant considerations.

Should not the United Nations and all of us work for peaceful co-existence between the various African States irrespective of the colour of their Governments?

I think that the views of Her Majesty's Government and, indeed, of the whole country on the question of apartheid are known. The only question is, what are the best methods which in the long run will bring happiness and peace to these territories?

asked the Prime Minister if he is satisfied that the existing machinery, by which Her Majesty's Government ensures that areas having high unemployment following the decline in the older industries are given priority in the siting of industrial estates, is adequate; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir.

Is the Prime Minister aware that there are large areas in Lanarkshire which have suffered very greatly indeed from the closure of pits and foundries and that no alternative industry whatever has been brought to that area? Is he also aware that in some parts there is very great difficulty in getting to any other project which the Board of Trade has brought there? Will he use his influence to ensure that those areas are not neglected and that industrial estates will be built in them?

Two advance factories are now building in the hon. Lady's constituency, and there are other Board of Trade industrial estates within reasonable travelling distance. We now intend to set up a new Government industrial estate in North Lanarkshire. The question is to get the best site to meet all the purposes which I described.

Does the Prime Minister recognise that there is a great deal of despondency and disappointment where there is siting and a definite promise but no employment or factories result from the siting? Will he do something to encourage Ministers to pay more attention to this aspect?

Two advance factories are now building in that constituency. That is not a promise, but the carrying out of a promise. The question of the next industrial estate is one on which I think ail hon. Members feel that it is very important to get the right siting from all the different points of view—not only unemployment, but facilities and the likelihood of it being attractive and making a success of it.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in the light of the facts contained in the evidence sent to him by the honourable Member for Burnley, he will initiate a study of the effect of nuclear bomb testing upon the weather.

I am grateful to the hon. Member for sending me a report of remarks attributed to Mr. Manalo of the Philippines, but I do not think they contain evidence that nuclear tests have had any significant effect upon the weather. I am advised that it would not be profitable to initiate a special study of this matter at the present time.

In thanking the Prime Minister for the courtesy of that reply, may I appeal to him to consider the matter, in view of the fact that these remarks attributed to Mr. Manalo have gone undisputed and that we might benefit in this country from a similar study to that effected under Command Paper 2029 and a report given to the House?

All sorts of remarks are made, and the fact that they are not disputed is not necessarily a reason to set in motion quite expensive and complicated studies. From the advice which I have, I feel that this is not a project on which we ought now to embark. I only have reports of what was said, but he said that if there were 2,000 atomic bombs exploded in the next ten years it would be the beginning of the ice age. We had very bad weather last winter, but I do not think that it was due to any explosions of atomic bombs. I have some information which the hon. Member may like to have: at any one time in the tropics there are said to be between 1,000 and 2,000 thunderstorms going on, each releasing the same energy as a megaton bomb.

I must again say that I appreciate the remarks made by the Prime Minister, but I ask him to remember that the remarks, a copy of which I sent to him, are from a scientist; and with due respect to the Prime Minister, he does not earn that coveted title.