asked the Minister of Public Building and Works on what occasion the stonework of the National Gallery was last cleaned; and what estimate he has made of the cost of cleaning it now.

The stonework of the National Gallery was last cleaned in 1951. The estimated cost of cleaning it now is£7,500.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that it has already got into a shockingly dirty state and that there is not much point in floodlighting a building as dirty as this? Can my right hon. Friend see if he can get it cleaned?

I do not accept the premise.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works if he will institute a programme of regular cleaning of the stonework of the major public buildings under his control.

I propose for the time being to continue my present policy of considering particular cases on their merits. I have, however, put in hand a review of the whole matter in the light of increasing experience in this country and abroad.

Has my right hon. Friend visited Paris lately and seen the absolutely staggering transformation which has been carried out there to public buildings? Will he make a further statement—if he is making investigations—as to his plans in this matter?

I have, happily, visited Paris from time to time. I think that the progress made there is remarkable, but the circumstances are, of course, rather different. I will certainly consider publishing the review if it proves to be of sufficient general interest.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the wonderful transformation which his Department has carried out to the Royal Scottish Academy in Edinburgh and also to Princes Street, and will he undertake further work of that kind in Edinburgh?

Yes, I will. Work on cleaning the National Gallery of Scotland has started and I expect it to be finished by June, 1964.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will prepare and publish an up-to-date book containing all the latest available information and advice on the restoration and preservation of historic buildings.

I undertook in my reply to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Southend, West (Mr. Channon) on 7th May to consider issuing a comprehensive publication of this character. I am having the necessary material collated and I intend to publish it either in a book or in a series of leaflets.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the booklet referred to in the reply which he gave was concerned with an out-of-date catalogue of an exhibition which happened many years ago, and will he take steps to remedy this?

I do not think that my hon. Friend listened to my reply. I think that he is a little unfair to the existing booklet, but I accept that it would be useful to have the latest information published in a new form.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works when he hopes to complete the restoration of the Banqueting House, Whitehall, and open it to the public.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what progress he has made with the reinstatement of the interior of the Banqueting House, Whitehall; and when he plans to make it available for use.

I am afraid that the Royal United Service Institution has still not been able to give me possession of the Banqueting House and so it has not been possible to start work on the reinstatement of the interior.

When does the right hon. Gentleman expect that it will be free?

The hon. Member knows what legal difficulties imply but the Institution is in consultation with the Charity Commissioners at the moment and they are working on a scheme which I hope will enable progress to be made.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will consider the construction of a subway linking the Banqueting House with the Henry VIII wine cellar, thus providing improved access and a link between these two places of hospitality.

No.

Is not the present approach to the cellar very poor and unattractive? Could not these two places be used very well together for official receptions and, perhaps, even for selected private ones?

The Question relates to the construction of a subway. I am advised that the construction of a sub-way would be a very complex and difficult operation and would be very expensive, too.

If my hon. Friend thinks that a subway would be too expensive, will he consider laying a pipeline?

I think that that question would be better addressed by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Power.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will arrange for the washing down of the stonework at the Treasury when restoration is completed, so that the architectural details of the building may be seen.

I have arranged for the stonework to be brushed down, to remove superficial soot and dirt and to tone down the new stone used in the repairs. Experiments have shown that washing down would be unlikely to restore the original colouring.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works, in view of the fact that the East Carriage Drive in Hyde Park has now been made a major traffic artery, if he will construct a horse ride parallel to it, and thereby complete the circuit for riders in the Park.

No.

Would my hon. Friend agree that now when there is very heavy goods traffic moving down this road at increased speed there is a case for restoring the pre-war track? Would he further agree that, although the number of civilian riders in the Row may be reduced, two squadrons of 230 horses of the Household Cavalry carry out their entire training in the Row?

I recognise my hon. Friend's interest, but it would be very expensive to construct a track at this time and there is little use for it apart from its use by the Household Cavalry.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will issue a White Paper setting out in detail his Department's proposals for extending and improving accommodation for Members of Parliament in the Palace of Westminster and in Bridge Street.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works (1) whether he will at an early opportunity inform hon. Members of plans for and progress made with the scheme to provide additional accommodation for Members in the roof over the Thames front of the Palace of Westminster;

(2) what further progress has been made with the development of accommodation in Bridge Street for Parliamentary purposes.

I will shortly publish this information and make it available to the House.

Could my right hon. Friend give some idea of the timing and when hon. Members might be able to use this new accommodation?

I think that my hon. Friend is referring to the accommodation in the roof. Work on phase I will commence in August. I hope that further details of this and, indeed, of the whole of the Bridge Street scheme will be given in the publication which I will make in a few days.

Between this date and the date of the possible forthcoming debate will the Minister address himself not only to this question but to the matter which arises from it, that is, whether he can consult the Leader of the House and Mr. Speaker and others to set up a continuing committee to supervise any accommodation in the interest of Members? It would be a very bad thing if in the end we had the sort of buildings which hon. Members did not like and the sort of accommodation they did not want.

I do not think that that is entirely a matter for me. I will certainly draw the hon. Member's views to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House.

Will my right hon. Friend consider installing simultaneous translation arrangements in the Bridge Street site when it is built?

That is a rather specialised question. I will certainly consider it.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will assign the parking facilities at Gloucester Slips, Regent's Park, to the London Zoo in view of the anticipated growth in the number of visitors to the Zoo, the absence of provision for car parking in the current reconstruction, the congestion en the Outer Circle at weekends due to kerbside parking, the loss of amenity and the danger to life this represents, and the anxiety expressed by local authorities about the whole matter.

No, Sir. The Gloucester Slips car park is at present available to visitors to the Zoo if they care to use it.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise that the reply makes nonsense of the whole problem? When his colleague the Minister of Transport is trying to get cars off the streets of London, why on earth does he allow cars to be parked on the Outer Circle of Regent's Park when unutilised accommodation is available? If it is not to be allocated to the Zoo, why cannot it be clearly designated for the use of visitors to the Park?

At the moment, the Gloucester Slips car park is open to both visitors to the Park and to the Zoo. If it were handed over to the Zoo authorities presumably it would be available only to Zoo visitors and we think it wrong to deny facilities to visitors to the Park.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether the car park is regarded as a permanency, since it is in itself a considerable loss of amenity to the public using the Park? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that one of his right hon. Friend's predecessors assured me that this was only a temporary expedient?

As the hon. Gentleman may be aware, the Minister of Transport and the Marylebone Borough Council have been considering for some time the possibility of an underground car park in Regent's Park. We expect shortly to receive proposals for our consideration and these will have a considerable bearing on the question of future car parking policy in that region.

The hon. Gentleman cannot have it both ways. Either the existence of a car park is a loss of amenity and there is no point in retaining it if car parking is allowed on the Outer Circle, or parking on the Outer Circle is a loss of amenity and there is no point in retaining the car park if it is not utilised. Cannot the hon. Gentleman utilise it in the way suggested instead of leaving it in a state of stalemate?

I cannot accept that this is stalemate. We need both the Gloucester Slips car park and parking in Regent's Park. If an underground car park were constructed the whole policy could be reviewed.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether the Admiralty building, constructed on The Mall during the Second World War, would resist the impact of nuclear bombs; and whether he will arrange on the grounds of amenity for its early removal.

It is expected that this building would give protection outside the immediate area of an explosion. As regards removal, I have nothing to add to my reply to the hon. Member for Dagenham (Mr. Parker) on 30th April.

Does not the Minister agree that this hideous pillbox would be useless in war time and that in peace time it gravely disfigures one of the few remaining unspoiled parts of London?

Whilst I certainly could not defend this building on aesthetic grounds, I could not agree that it would be useless in war time.

Would the hon. Gentleman look at this matter again and consider that the beauty of St. James's Park ought to rank very high as a Government priority?

I do not disagree with that, but it would be very expensive to remove this building and we should also have to find accommodation elsewhere for the civil servants displaced.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what was the total value of contracts placed by him in the Coatbridge and Airdrie district during the last financial year.

Contracts valued at£15,400 were placed by the Department in the Coatbridge and Airdrie district during the last financial year.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that that is an infinitesimal proportion of what is placed elsewhere? Has he taken into consideration the fact that it is nothing unusual to have 8 per cent. of the insurable population unemployed in this area? Will he not do his utmost in future to ensure that this total will be stepped up to a more realistic level?

We do all we can to help the development districts, and Scotland shares in the general arrangements. In accordance with our policy, firms in these districts are invited to tender for stores contracts wherever possible and preference is given to them provided that additional expenditure is not incurred.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether the construction and furnishing of the three-storey building to be erected by his Department in Dovecot Street, Stockton-on-Tees, is now scheduled for completion in a shorter period than the 24 months from August, 1963, previously anticipated; and how far considerations of cost have affected the timetable to be followed by the contractor.

We are at present allowing 22 months for construction and furnishing. We consider that a shorter construction period would have involved higher tenders, and that the extra cost would not have been justified by the extent to which earlier completion was likely in practice to have been achieved.

May I thank the Parliamentary Secretary for being quite frank in saying that the delay in the completion of what he knows to be an absolutely key building in the town renewal in Stockton is due entirely to the factor of cost? Will he consider it again? If the Government make a proper gesture towards the North-East, is the extra expense not worth while if it enables the local authority to go ahead with some absolutely essential projects? May I assume that the hon. Gentleman is aware that a leading civil engineering contractor says that: the building could be completed easily within 12 months?

I would not accept that. We realise the importance of this and we have brought forward the starting date, as the hon. Gentleman knows. We have also reduced the time of completion: that is to a total of 20 months for the actual building, which allows for delays, as one has to allow for them, and two months for furnishing. I do not think that that is too bad.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works how many prefabricated houses he expects to have erected and occupied this year; and for how long it is estimated they will remain habitable.

My Ministry expects to have five prefabricated houses completed and occupied this summer in the United Kingdom and 101 abroad. Their estimated life is 25 years, but with reasonable maintenance they should last much longer.

In view of our experience of prefabricated houses after the last war, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he is satisfied that this new experiment will be justified? Is he also satisfied that the introduction of this new type of building will not seriously harm the manufacture of the old traditional building materials, such as bricks and tiles, to which he promised the manufacturers to give high priority and a stable demand?

These prefabricated houses are not an experiment. I have certainly in mind the building of a number of houses for the Services by industrialised methods, but I do not envisage their being used unless the resulting product is at least as durable as the traditional house. I have no reason to suppose that these new methods, which include the rationalisation of traditional building, will upset manufacturers and others concerned in the construction industries.

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell his hon. Friend that even the building industry has made a considerable amount of progress since the report to the House in 1944?

The hon. Gentleman is quite correct.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the traditional manufacturers are a little concerned that the extra publicity that he is giving to the prefabricated idea may well upset the firm demand for their products? One would expect that there was room for both, but will my right hon. Friend work with the established industry to avoid apprehensions affecting their actual production?

Of course, I will work with them. That is exactly what we are doing. They have no reason for these fears, provided they are prepared to be up to date and to play a part in the introduction of now methods.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what action he is taking to apply to British embassies, legations and consular offices overseas the standards laid down in the Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Bill.

I believe that the standards observed in these offices compare very favourably with those laid down under the terms of the Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Bill.

Has my hon. Friend confirmed that view with the people for whom the Foreign Office is responsible? Is he aware that quite a lot of people employed in the Foreign Office are very interested to know whether the facilities of this Bill are going to be applied to them? Has he made inquiries before giving his answer, or is he giving it off the cuff?

No, Sir. I am not giving it off the cuff. I am informed that the standards for Government offices overseas are generally much in excess of the requirements laid down in the Bill. If my hon. Friend has any particular matter that she would like to bring to my notice I shall be glad to look into it.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what precautions he takes to prevent the emission of fumes from installations controlled by his Department in the Palace of Westminster.

Every effort is made to prevent the emission of fumes from installations controlled by the Ministry and experiments are at present being carried out with a view to making further improvements.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is an incinerator in this building in which rubbish is burned at certain periods during the day, that the fumes go into the rooms in this building, particularly in those rooms on the upper floor where the secretaries and the telephone switchboard girls work, and that these girls are constantly suffering from sore throats? Surely something should be done to avoid this nuisance in this building if the Ministry wants to get decent buildings elsewhere in the country. Can the hon. Gentleman say what can be done to avoid this during the Summer Recess?

I realise there is a difficulty here. I think the difficulty is caused by the fact that the stack for this incinerator cannot be higher than the roof; otherwise it would make the building look peculiar. Our engineers are carrying out experiments at the moment and we hope we shall find a solution to this problem.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that this is a long-standing grievance? It not only applies to the rooms where the secretaries work, where the smell is occasioned by the burning of garbage and all sorts of things on the ground floor; one cannot even go into the Library without the smell of fish and chips coming up from the cafeteria. This is a foul-smelling place. Is the hon. Gentleman also aware that the remedy to this nuisance has frustrated even the efforts of the Serjeant at Arms? What is his Department going to do to become alive to the inconveniences of this place?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we are very much alive to this problem and we are carrying out experiments to see what can be done to get over it. I realise that this is a problem and we are determined to find a solution to it.

Is my hon. Friend telling the House that he and his right hon. Friend are unable to Gothicise the kitchen chimney?

I think a Gothicised kitchen chimney would look very odd sticking up over the skyline here.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works if he has yet received the report of the Committee under Sir Harold Banwell which is inquiring into the practices adopted for the placing and management of contracts for buildings and civil engineering projects.

I have received an interim report in the form of a letter from the Chairman, Sir Harold Banwell. I will, with permission, circulate the full text in the Official Report.

The interim report recommends the greater use of selective tendering by local authorities. The Government accept the Committee's recommendations in principle and will immediately arrange further discussions with the local authority associations.

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us what he means by "selective tendering"? Does he appreciate that there has been a lot of public tendering and that there is a feeling abroad that there is far too much log-rolling among friends and friends' friends? What does he mean by "selective tendering"? Will the right hon. Gentleman also address himself to whether the old-fashioned form of tendering might not be looked at again?

That is exactly what the Committee has been looking at. It has made recommendations which are set out in detail in its letter, which I am sure the hon. Gentleman will read with interest. By "selective tendering" I mean tendering off a list of selected firms as distinct from open competitive tendering.

Could my right hon. Friend say when the full report of this very important Banwell Committee will be available?

I hope, without committing myself or indeed the Committee, that it will be completed by the end of the year.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that already there seems to be an abuse by which privileged contractors seem to enjoy more than their fair share of work, often undertaking contracts far beyond their capacity? Would he not do much better to recommend that the burden of work should be more widely distributed, so that smaller firms could also have access to some of these contracts?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will submit some evidence to the Committee which is considering these matters. I do not accept what he says. If, however, he has information on particular instances of abuse I will gladly investigate them.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works how many official visits he has made to historic buildings outside London since his appointment; and what plans he has for future visits.

Since my appointment a year ago I have visited 11 historic buildings outside London in an official capacity. I will continue to take every opportunity to visit and revisit historic buildings in the United Kingdom both in my official and in my private capacity.

Will my right hon. Friend make sure that this greatly extended field of his activities is not neglected in the future?

Yes, Sir. It is not neglected now.

When the right hon. Gentleman refers to visits outside London does he also mean his visits absroad?

No, Sir. My answer was confined purely to visits to historic buildings in the United Kingdom under my care, and not forts on the Yemen border.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what use is being made of Hampton Court Palace for official purposes during 1963;and whether he will encourage a greater use of the palace in the future.

So far there are no proposals for using Hampton Court Palace for official purposes in 1963 but I hope that the Cumberland suite, which is shortly to be restored, will be used for Government hospitality on appropriate occasions.

Could my right hon. Friend persuade the Lord Chamberlain to allow Government hospitality in the banqueting hall and the gardens much more frequently, because I am sure that official Commonwealth and foreign visitors would enjoy functions there and would also enjoy going there by river?

Quite a number of functions have been held in the Palace since 1961—at least five supper parties, for example. Hampton Court Palace is, of course, a Royal Palace which I administer on behalf of Her Majesty, so that her permission is required for any functions that may be held there.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will take steps to acquire suitable furnishings for the many empty state-rooms at Hampton Court Palace.

The furnishing of the State Apartments at Hampton Court is the responsibility of the Lord Chamberlain but I will certainly draw his attention to my hon. Friend's Question.

Could my right hon. Friend get some period furniture loaned from the Victoria and Albert Museum or some other national museum to fill up these empty rooms?

I will certainly pass on that suggestion. I understand that the Lord Chamberlain's present policy is to restrict the furnishings to items with historical associations with the Palace.

Will the right hon. Gentleman persuade the Lord Chamberlain to confine his activities solely to Hampton Court and to leave us to look after the House of Commons?

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what steps he has taken to publicise the opening of the restored Cardinal Wolsey rooms at Hampton Court.

Full information about the restoration of the decorated and painted ceilings in these rooms, and of the remarkable series of early 16th-century panel paintings in the Wolsey Closet, was circulated to all sections of the Press at the time of the re-opening in April, 1962.

Will my right hon. Friend do a little more? Since not one remains of the Palaces built by the Tudor sovereigns, is not this Palace built by Wolsey of particular historic interest?

I quite agree about the importance of this Palace. We are doing a great deal of work there. I shall do all I can to publicise its value and importance.

Now that such great interest has been taken in one of the great ornaments in my constituency, namely, Hampton Court, will my right hon. Friend open up the blocked doorway into these rooms so as to allow visitors to circulate more freely?

There is a further Question dealing with the extra work which we are doing. I will consider putting my hon. Friend on exhibition there, if he likes.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what arrangements exist for the purchase of suitable antique furnishings and works of art for British embassies; and what funds are available for this purpose.

When antique furniture is thought appropriate in an embassy, suitable pieces are purchased on the advice of qualified members of my staff from the funds provided by Parliament. Pictures are purchased on the recommendation of an advisory committee of experts set up in 1957, and in 1963–64,£6,000 is provided for this purpose.

Does my right hon. Friend arrange that people from his Department go regularly to the London sale-rooms in order to purchase suitable pieces of furniture, which can often be bought very inexpensively, for British embassies overseas?

Yes; they cast their net very wide. If he wishes, I will give my hon. Friend some examples of excellent purchases made recently.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that this is an important matter since our embassies are a great advertisement for this country? Will he make every effort to spend as much as he can?

I concur.

Will the Minister bear in mind that one of the worries of many hon. Members is the antique appearance of a large part of the Government's Administration already?

I cannot bear in mind all the hon. Gentleman's worries, but I shall try to think of some of them.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what plans he has for the future of Richmond Terrace, Westminster.

The intention is to demolish the Terrace and to redevelop the site in conjunction with the new Bridge Street development.

As the Terrace is named after my constituency, will my right hon. Friend reconsider the decision to demolish these magnificent buildings?

While not accepting the relevance of the connection, I do not think that I can reconsider the position.

Are the interiors in a good condition, and is there any chance of saving them?

They are not in very good condition, and they provide very poor office accommodation.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will publish a detailed and illustrated account of the restoration of Downing Street when the work is completed.

Yes, Sir.

What was the original estimated cost of restoring this street, what will be the actual cost, and why have the costs been so much greater than originally estimated?

I congratulate my hon. Friend on the ingenuity with which he relates that supplementary question to the Question. The original cost envisaged in the Crawford Report was£400,000. A provisional estimate of£500,000 was made in June, 1959. I estimate that the final cost of the work will be somewhere between£900,000 and£1 million.

Is this an example of selective tendering, or what?

It was a special form of contract designed for this particular purpose.

Is the Minister aware that what we want to see, as regards No. 10 Downing Street, is a photograph of the next tenant?

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he is satisfied with the supply of craftsman made bricks and tiles; and what steps he is taking to ensure the survival of a sufficient number of small brickyards.

Yes, Sir. I am not aware of any difficulties in the supply of craftsman-made bricks or tiles.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the growth of the huge brick combines has resulted in the closing of many local brickyards? Has not this monopolistic tendency resulted, first, in a shortage of common bricks and, second, in the extinction of the possibility in many of the brickyards which still exist of making these special bricks?

No, Sir; we have not received any complaints in recent months of a shortage of this kind of brick. If my hon. Friend will let me know of any particular case he has in mind, I shall look into it.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what progress is being made with the excavation of a further section of the Jewel House moat; and whether he will consider the excavation of the part lying under the roadway and its conversion to a pedestrian subway.

The moat west of the roadway has been excavated and the face-stones are now being consolidated and rebedded. A waterproof concrete base will then be laid and the east end sealed by a concrete retaining wall.

We cannot at present undertake to continue the excavation beyond this point.

Does my hon. Friend realise that, by not proceeding with this excavation, he is leaving unprovided for a very dangerous road where traffic proceeds very fast and depriving noble Lords of another place and hon. and right hon. Members of this ancient House of free access to the Palace of Westminster? If we had a tunnel under the road, would it not help to display some of our archaeological heritage at the same time as providing safe passage to the House of Commons?

To construct a tunnel under the roadway would be very expensive. From the archaeological point of view, we have a great deal of other work on hand and we could not undertake this at present.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works when he hopes to develop the Abingdon Street site now used as a car park; and what plans he has for an underground car park and gardens at street level.

Preparations are being made for work to start on the underground garage next month. The surface will be laid out as a public open space, on completion of the garage.

Why has it taken so long to make proper use of this site? What is happening about the garden? Is there to be a competition, or how will my hon. Friend decide what the layout of the garden will be?

The development of the site is a matter for the Westminster City Council, and we are acting as its agents in this matter. As regards the layout of the site, a design has been worked out by our own architects which, I hope, will be pleasing to the House.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what increased facilities for the purchase of coloured slides have been made available in 1963 to the public in places under his control, particularly in Scotland.

In Great Britain as a whole 393 colour slides are on sale covering 102 buildings and monuments in our care; an increase of 163 and 45 respectively over 1962. In Scotland, where 43 places in our control are now covered and the total range is133 items, slides were introduced in 1963 at five monuments and additional slides provided at five others.

Does my hon. Friend regard that as the maximum use which can be made of this form of advertising? Could he, perhaps, give encouragement to the Scottish Tourist Board by increasing still further the number of slides available?

We are prepared to increase the number, but the number produced does depend upon the demand and what we try to do is to meet the demand where it is.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what was the total cost of the reinstatement of the side of Apsley House following demolition of adjoining buildings; and what proposals he has for reinstating the exposed side of buildings on the other side of the new roadway.

The cost of reinstating the side of Apsley House is expected to be about£57,000. Of this,£35,000 is for facing the east wall with Bath stone and the balance is for associated works. We are not responsible for the buildings on the other side of the new roadway.

Since the Gowers Committee said in its Report that the surroundings of historic buildings are just as important as the buildings themselves, ought not something to be done about this building in any event?

We have done the restorations at Apsley House on behalf of the London County Council. The buildings on the other side of the roadway are the responsibility of the Crown Estate Commission, which we understand, has in hand the question of reinstating the exposed side of these buildings.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what recent steps he has taken to improve the state of the water in St. James's Park lake; and what are his future plans.

Towards the end of last year, areas at each end of the lake in St. James's Park were cleared of silt. Samples of the water are taken regularly and pumps are brought into use immediately the oxygen content falls to a level that endangers the fish. I hope soon to make arrangements for the removal of the remainder of the silt at the two ends of the lake and for more permanent arrangements for the aeration of the water, probably by means of a cascade.

I am sure that the many thousands of visitors there will appreciate the efforts my right hon. Friend has made on behalf of—I almost said the birds—our feathered friends which are so attractive, but can I persuade my right hon. Friend to spend a little more time on the welfare of the fish instead of the sex of the pelican?

I am very interested not only in the fish but in the birds.

Would the Minister consider making a comprehen- sive study of the water in London's various parks so as to make it all as pure as that in Highgate swimming pond for swimmers in the interest of public health?

It is very much like other water, but I will look into it very carefully.

Is it the state of the water which has delayed my right hon. Friend in carrying out his promise to the pelican that he would be joined by two female companions before long?

That is another question. I hope that the pelican will not be lonely for too long.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether the Royal Institute of British Architects Declaration is still used when his Department puts work out to tender.

We adopt a procedure which has a similar purpose and effect. In 1955 all firms on the approved lists of the Government Departments likely to be invited to tender for works over£3,000 in value were asked to confirm, as a condition of remaining on the lists, that they did not subscribe to the practices condemned by the report of the Monopolies Commission on the Supply of Buildings in the Greater London area. Any new firm wishing to be put on Departments approved lists is asked to sign a similar undertaking.

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the R.I.B.A. Declaration grew out of the London Builders' Conference. Is he aware that his predecessor, now Lord Eccles, condemned that practice? Will he be good enough to put in the Library a copy of the new Declaration which he seeks so that we may look at it and compare it with the R.I.B.A. Declaration?

The hon. Gentleman has written to me and I will reply to him in more detail. I will make available a copy of the form of assurance which firms wishing to be put on approved lists have to sign.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works why he has found it impossible to accommodate the National Health Service Dunbartonshire Executive Council, now seeking new accommodation, in the Crown building being planned for Dumbarton, which would avoid the duplication of common services and thereby save public money.

Executive Councils, as part of the National Health Service Organisation, are responsible for finding their own accommodation subject in Scottish cases to the approval of the Secretary of State for Scotland.

Why cannot the Ministry provide accommodation in this new Crown building so that the common services are available in the same building? As this money is coming out of the Treasury and the public purse, why cannot we save money by doing this?

I have stated a general principle on this, but in this case, which I have discussed with the hon. Gentleman, taking into account the rent, repairs and adaptations, I am advised that the cost of accommodation in Dumbarton would be about half that of enlarging the proposed Crown building.

The building which the hon. Member mentions will be vacated by the Inland Revenue and no new contract has been made. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what is the increase in cost of the scheme, as originally planned, for the rebuilding of the Bernhard Baron Pavilion in Regent's Park; what modifications to the plans are required to reduce the cost and by how much the cost will be reduced; and if he will make a statement.

It was found that the scheme as originally planned would have cost over£46,000 as against the provision of£38,000 which had been taken for it in the 1963–64 Estimates. The scheme is now being revised with the object of bringing the cost if possible down to the Estimates figure. The revisions proposed include a change in the heating arrange- ments, a simpler form of structural design and modifications to the roof construction.

Is my hon. Friend aware that it is now over five years since the boroughs of St. Marylebone, Hampstead, Paddington and St. Pancras made most urgent representations for the building of this pavilion? Is he further aware that two years ago it was understood that this pavilion would be built this year? This is a most unsatisfactory situation and a grave reflection on his Department and is in marked contrast to the energy which the Government show in so many other directions at home and abroad.

I am aware of the delays in going ahead with this construction, but I think it is right that we should come to the right conclusion. I hope very much that these new plans which have been produced will provide the right answer.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what proportions of his non-industrial staff are employed in London and Scotland, respectively.

Excluding locally engaged staff overseas, about 37 per cent. of non-industrial staff are employed in the London postal area and 7 per cent. in Scotland.

In view of the repeated assertions that Government policy is to bring about a much more sensible distribution of industry, will not the hon. Gentleman's right hon. Friend take a lead in this matter to see that there is much more effective distribution than has so far been achieved?

What we are intending to do is to see that all future works services in Scotland should be designed and controlled in Scotland itself, unless there are special reasons for making other arrangements.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what proportions of his industrial staff are employed in London and Scotland, respectively.

Approximately 23 per cent. of the Ministry's directly employed industrial staff in the United Kingdom work in London and 9 per cent. in Scotland.

Has the hon. Gentleman any proposal for increasing the industrial staff? Answers to previous questions have indicated an interest in the Central London area. Is he not aware that it is in the basic interests of Scotland that a higher proportion of industrial staff should be allocated to Scotland?

That would follow upon broad Government policy, because the industrial staff we employ are mainly engaged on the maintenance and repair of Government buildings and furniture.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what proportions of his staff in the professional grades are employed in London and Scotland, respectively.

Excluding locally engaged staff overseas, about 38 per cent. of professional staff are employed in the London postal area and about 6 per cent. in Scotland.

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that this and previous Answers indicate that there is still a great deal of room for spreading the activities of his Ministry more widely and doing rather more to assist Scotland?

I do not think that the hon. Member appreciates what I said in reply to an earlier Question when I said that we intended to decentralise a great deal more and that in future all works services for Scotland will be planned in Scotland, unless there are special reasons for doing otherwise.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he is aware of the general approval given to his floodlighting of buildings of merit in Central London; what is the annual cost to his department in terms of electricity used; and whether he will extend the provisions so that the buildings under his care will be floodlit throughout the whole year.

Floodlighting of buildings in my Ministry's care in London at present lasts from May to October. From May to September electricity is provided free by the London Electricity Board. The cost to my Ministry of electricity used during October is about£600.

The extra expense involved in floodlighting these buildings throughout the whole year would be substantial and although I welcome the general appreciation of floodlighting, I regret that funds cannot be made available for extending it throughout the year.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the word "substantial" is a little out of context in this matter when so much pleasure and some inspiration are given for what I regard as little cost? Would he not reconsider the matter so that after the peak hour in the winter, say from seven o'clock, some of these buildings could be kept floodlit?

It would cost an additional£8,000 a year and I am not satisfied that there is a demand for expenditure of that order.

Will my right hon. Friend keep to his present answer to the last part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question? Will he bear in mind that this floodlighting of public buildings, beautiful as it may be, is looked upon with some distaste by those villages in isolated areas which still require electricity?

I will try, as always, to balance conflicting views.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that the pleasing and warming sight of these illuminated buildings would, in a way, be more welcome to Londoners in the winter than in the summer? In view of the trivial amount of the additional expense which would be involved, would he consider this matter again before it is too late?

I am glad to have the right hon. Gentleman's definition of "trivial", but we must bear in mind the need to balance the demand for this facility in the winter against the cost.