asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether objectors, other than those indicated in section 23 of the Local Government Act, 1958, will be allowed to give evidence at local inquiries which he will set up to consider objections to the final proposals of the Local Government Commission for Wales.

It will be open to the persons appointed to hold these inquiries to hear any evidence which they consider relevant.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many local inquiries he will set up to consider the objections received to the final proposals of the Local Government Com mission for Wales; whether a single inspector will be appointed for all the inquiries; and if he will make a statement.

Arrangements for public local inquiries, about which local authorities will be consulted, have not yet been made. I expect, however, that it will be necessary to have several separate inquiries and it seems likely that more than one person will be appointed to hold them.

Can the Minister predict how soon these inquiries will take place? As Minister for Welsh Affairs he will understand that there is a great deal of anxiety about the proposals of the Commission at the present time.

I understand that it must be some months before they can hope to start.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he has yet received the results of the 1962 tests for radioactivity in the reservoirs supplying water to Leeds and Manchester.

Yes. The results will be included in a report on radioactivity in drinking water which is to be published next month. I will send a copy to the hon. Member.

Can the Minister say how these latest results compare with the previous tests made?

Broadly speaking, they are very similar to those in 1959 when the levels rose following the 1958 nuclear weapons test.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what action he proposes to take on the petition referred to him from citizens in Newcastle-under-Lyme concerning the nuisances of noise, dust, smoke, smell, and road damage in Orford Street and West Street, Porthill, Newcastle-under-Lyme; and, since some of this area will be required for road schemes in the future, if he will consult the Minister of Transport about ways and means of stopping avoidable nuisances.

I understand from the Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council that there is no evidence of any statutory nuisance against which it would be possible to take action under the Public Health Act, 1936.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that there is evidence of genuine nuisance having existed in this area for a long time on account of the anomalous fact that this noisy industrial works is sited slap in the middle of a residential area? Would he not, therefore, assist his right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport, who has now become the landlord of this site, to hasten the removal of this works from a residential area as rapidly as possible?

I will certainly co-operate with my right hon. Friend as much as we always do, but there is no direct power by which I can help the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what steps Manchester Corporation have taken to supplement their water supply from underground sources such as disused mines; and what consideration has been given to the storage underground instead of on the surface of surplus or flood water from the Lake District.

Both expedients were examined by the Conference on Water Resources in the North West which reported last April, and the first was examined separately by the Corporation. The conclusion was that neither expedient offered prospects of securing any large addition to existing supplies.

Is not my hon. Friend aware that in the last 200 years thousands of millions of tons of coal and minerals have been excavated from under ground in the north of England? Does he really suggest that, as a result of this tonnage having been excavated, there is not adequate underground storage space available for the pumping into these artificial underground reservoirs of the floodwater from rivers in the north of England at appropriate times?

I can only tell my hon. Friend that the Manchester Corporation examined no fewer than 34 coal mines and arrived at the conclusion that even if all of them were used only 13 million gallons a day would be available, whereas the immediate requirements of the Corporation are in the neighbourhood of an extra 50 million gallons a day. It is also, under present conditions, immensely expensive to extract from 34 different sources and to treat the water which may vary from one source to another.

Has no national survey been made recently about the huge underground deposits of water that exist, or are believed to exist, in this country, apart from in disused coal mines?

The Geological Survey carries out surveys of this sort. One of the main purposes of the Water Resources Bill, which is before the House, is to ensure that these matters are investigated on a national basis. I think that probably one of the difficulties in the past has been that there has been no one authority responsible for this operation.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what progress has been made in the storage of water underground instead of on the surface to meet the rapidly increasing water needs for agriculture, industry and domestic purposes; and if he will make a statement.

As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said in reply to a Question by myhon. Friend on 16th July, this technique will be studied by the Water Resources Board and the river authorities to be established under the Water Resources Bill. Some experimental work has been carried out already, but it is too early to say whether geological conditions in this country will prove suitable for the use of the technique on any considerable scale.

In view of the very great need, does not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that it is essential that this question of the examination of underground water storage possibilities should be pressed on with all speed? Is it not ridiculous that planning boards should talk about extracting water from the sea, and expensive methods of that kind, when there must be enormous possibilities of storing water underground, using it appropriately for industry, agriculture and domestic needs?

My hon. Friend's remarks underline the importance of the Bill which, we hope, will be disposed of between now and about this time tomorrow—and I hope that my hon. Friend will stay and help us to do so.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what progress the Kent County Council has made during recent months in obtaining the 10 sites for gypsies and other travellers.

Planning permission has recently been given for two sites, and I understand that applications for some further sites are likely to be submitted shortly. This is in addition to the site already in operation at Great Chart.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary bear in mind the fact that each site will have a maximum of 12 caravans and that on my site I already have 50? How much longer will it be before the authorities will live up to their responsibilities and look after Britain's outcasts in a manner which any Christian or democratic country should do without a private individual having to try to take the load off their shoulders?

The hon. Member will appreciate that the difficulty is that of local opposition. This inevitably inhibits a district council. I can inform the hon. Member that the four district councils which have not yet put sites forward have been contacted by the Kent County Council and in each of the four cases there are good prospects of sites coming forward.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is aware that there are long stretches of the Pennine Way, particularly in Derbyshire, the West Riding and Northumberland, where no overnight accommodation is available for walkers; and what steps he is taking to ensure that this deficiency is remedied.

Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friend is aware of this. A hostel is being provided by the Peak Park Planning Board at Crowden in the Long-dendale Valley. In Northumberland the County Council is discussing the matter with the Youth Hostel Association with a view to making some provision.

I thank the Parliamentary Secretary for that reply. May I point out that the hostel proposed by the Peak Park Planning Board has been under consideration for some time now and that this is a matter of great urgency? When the National Parks Act was passed in 1949 it was always visualised that the authorities would provide this accommodation. They were given powers to do so. Will the Parliamentary Secretary see that there is no further unreasonable delay in these cases?

I am sure that the hon. Lady realises that the initiative must come from the local authorities, the Peak Park Planning Board or the National Parks Commission. When it does I can assure her that there will be no delay by my Department in considering these matters.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is satisfied that Section 132 of the Local Government Act 1948 gives local authorities adequate powers to organise public firework parties on 5th November as a contribution towards reducing the number of firework accidents at this time; and if he will make a statement.

I am advised that the Section enables local authorities to provide or arrange public firework parties. It is for local authorities to decide whether to use these powers.

In view of the appalling accidents that take place every November through the mishandling of fireworks, will the hon. Gentleman consider reminding local authorities that they have this power, so that parents may be encouraged to take their children to such parties rather than to let off fireworks in their own back gardens?

I am not aware of any need to remind local authorities, but I will certainly see what publicity has been given to the matter. In the meantime, I am sure that the hon. Lady's Question will help considerably towards that end.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that these displays should be conducted by properly qualified people, in which case there needs to be either a vast training scheme to produce qualified people or these displays will be very few and far between?

There is a variety of views, and I have a good deal of sym- pathy with the view of my hon. Friend, but in this matter the responsibility is basically that of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.

Is my hon. Friend aware that just as soon as his right hon. Friend can announce that the County of Rutland is to retain its independence we will have a "bonanza" firework display; and that we know very well where to get the money from?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will issue a circular advising county councils to make definitive maps, prepared under Part IV of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act, 1949, available in public libraries as well as in council offices.

My right hon. Friend is prepared to write to the local authority associations encouraging this for the maps using the new notation, which can be reproduced mechanically. All these rights of way are being incorporated in Ordnance Survey maps.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that it would be a great convenience, to an increasing number of people who wish to consult them, if these definitive maps were made available in public libraries as well as in council offices which, being open only for normal office hours, are not available to people working during the day?

I appreciate that point and, basically, agree with it. The difficulty is that in the older maps the notation had to be shown in colour, which is not easy to reproduce mechanically and is expensive to reproduce by hand. This is why we have altered the notation so that the maps can be reproduced mechanically.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary also bear in mind that all over Britain people are now finding that rights of way and public footpaths are being taken up? Will he notify local authorities that it is their duty to keep rights of way, and see that they are noted on maps?

The county councils have a statutory duty in this matter and most of them are carrying it out conscientiously and rapidly, but it is a fairly long process because of the various public inquiries that can arise.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the fact that water rate is a part of the general rates taxation structure, why he requires a separate account to be submitted.

There is no general requirement to submit a separate account. The general rate and the water rate are often included in the same demand note.

As the water rate is now related to the general rate in all respects, in that an increase of rateable value increases the water rate by a similar proportion, does the Minister think it desirable to advise all the authorities concerned that they need not send two rate demands?

The hon. Gentleman should realise that where the water authority and the local authority are identical, it is often convenient to send out the two demands separately but on the same note but, of course, not all ratepayers pay their water rate on the basis of rateable value, as many of them pay by way of meter.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs in how many cases in the last year local authorities, and therefore ratepayers, have paid the legal expenses of both sides in public inquiries; and in how many of these cases opposing local authorities have been within the same county.

I regret that detailed figures could not be extracted without examining several thousand separate files. But I can state that in each case the numbers are very small.

Is my hon. Friend aware that cases are arising where the wishes of the ratepayers are fairly clear; and that whereas as a member of the legal profession I can see some advantage in the practice, as a ratepayer I strongly deprecate it?

With due respect, I think that my hon. Friend's Question is remarkably unspecific. The term "public inquiries" covers a very large number of subjects, many of which are wholly outside the control of my right hon. Friend. If my hon. Friend will let me know which particular types of inquiry he has in mind, I will try to find an answer to his problem.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what steps he is taking to curb speculation in derelict land.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the need to reclaim derelict land for housing and other purposes, if he will set up a committee to investigate how far these purposes are being frustrated by the speculative buying and selling of derelict sites.

I have no evidence that the reclamation of derelict land which is normally undertaken by local authorities is being frustrated as suggested. In these circumstances there is no need for a committee.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that I hold in my hand a mortgage signed by Peter Rachman eight days before his death between a company of his and the Eagle Star Insurance Company Limited for £100,000, prima facieevidence of fraud which needs investigation by the Inland Revenue and perhaps the Law Society? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the unencumbered assets on which the money was raised consisted of the Apedale Estate in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mr. Swingler), which was bought not long ago for £20,000 or £30,000 and now is apparently valued at well over £100,000? Will the hon. Gentleman now alert the little district councils all over the industrial areas of England, who were hoping that the scars of the Industrial Revolution would be bulldozed away and replaced by housing estates, that funds are available for these sharks who are making a fresh invasion—

Order. The hon. Member has ample opportunity to make speeches. This is Question Time.

With respect, Mr. Speaker, this is directly relevant. The Parliamentary Secretary has said that he has no evidence. I give it to him and ask him to follow this up. Will the hon. Gentleman undertake that he will not only follow the course of these funds but others from the previous Rachman empire, such as those from the sale of Nos. 63, 65, 67 and 69, Chepstow Road, Paddington, put on the market on the instructions of Captain Anthony Sykes?

Mr. Swingler.

With the greatest respect, Mr. Speaker, I do not often behave like this, but I am impelled by a grave sense of responsibility. I would ask you to exercise tolerance because it is difficult to make half a statement on a matter of this importance which carries such terrible responsibility. Captain Anthony Sykes, who is one of the "rich Charlies", as Rachman delighted to call them when he sold them some of his more disreputable property—

Order. The reason why we have to keep to the rules about Questions and have to keep supplementary questions short and not make speeches at Question Time is so that the common interest of all hon. Members with Questions on the Paper may be served.

Answer.

Hon. Gentlemen shout "Answer", but I have not had very much opportunity. What the hon. Member for Paddington, North (Mr. Parkin) has not made out is the argument that because this man paid a very large sum in the belief that there was oil on this site—

The hon. Gentleman still does not know anything about it.

Because he had paid that sum it does not put up the value of the land by that amount to this or any other purchaser.

I take it that the Parliamentary Secretary is not a complete fool, but people in north Staffordshire will think that he is, because none of them would fall for that sort of thing. Will the hon. Gentleman explain how on earth a parcel of mainly derelict land is taken over in my constituency and used to raise the sum of £100,000 for the purpose of speculating in London property and prostitution? This is what we want to know. Is the hon. Gentleman doing anything about this racket?

It really is not for me to answer for the reasons why any lender considered this to be reasonable security for that amount of money. All I am saying is that it does not follow at all that if there were a compulsory purchase order the Lands Tribunal would take any account whatever of that price.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, without any prospect of oil at all, a piece of land in Hampshire on which the county council placed a value of £10,000 in 1957 is being sold to London County Council after passing through several hands for £500,000? Does he not think that this is disgraceful?

Shocking.

This is racketeering.

Whatever may be the reasons for that particular amount, I cannot believe that a piece of land worth £10,000 in 1957 was or is derelict.

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that the policy of his Government is to encourage the use of derelict land, and if they proceed with that policy without any measures at all to check profiteering in land their advertising of their policy is simply an advertisement to people to make money out of it in return for no service at all to the community?

We have, of course, debated this matter on a number of occasions, and on the most recent of them the Opposition were singularly lacking in answering my criticisms of their scheme. I would remind the hon. Member once more, as he knows perfectly well, that whether or not this man gave this amount of money for this land is no conclusive evidence of its value.

The hon. Gentleman talks about not answering his criticisms of our proposals. Are we to understand that he has no answer to criticisms of the present situation and that he and his hon. Friends defend the kind of thing that Peter Rachman did and others do?

The hon. Member knows as well as everybody else does that that is not true. The Question relates to whether or not speculation in derelict land prevents its reclamation by local authorities. There is no evidence whatever that this or any other transaction would put up the price which would be determined by the Lands Tribunal, which is the last resort.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware of the discontent of the local council and the residents of Gosforth regarding the decision to grant planning permission for high offices and facilities for car parking to be provided in the midst of a residential area, which will increase traffic dangers and depreciate property values; and if he will meet a deputation from the Gosforth Urban District Council to discuss these decisions.

My right hon. Friend is aware of the views of the district council and of the residents; but the decision has issued and no useful purpose would be served by either my right hon. Friend or myself receiving a deputation.

May I put it to the Minister that it is not right that when there is a dispute between a local council and the residents where permission is given to erect great blocks of high offices in a splendid residential area, the county council or the planning authority gives a final decision without allowing time for local people to meet the Minister and make their objections? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in this case there were two or three other sites where the offices could have been built and where there was easy access? Is he aware that the facts in this case begin to smell and that people are beginning to think that a wealthy company can pull the wires and—

On a point of order.

I do not want any point of order. I think that we had better go on with the rest of that perhaps another day.

I will try to reply briefly to the hon. Member's speech. I would remind him that Parliament, and that includes Governments of both political parties, has placed the responsibility for planning matters on the local planning authorities, in this case the county council. It is clear that in this case the county council took some pains to find out the views of the rural district council and the residents and acted perfectly properly and well within its powers. My right hon. Friend has no power to intervene.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what progress he is making in his efforts to encourage local authorities to negotiate for the use of racecourses for sport and recreation facilities on non-racing days; and if he will make a statement.

My Department has written to all the local authority associations, and has taken note of the arrangements they have made to publicise this idea and to recommend it to their members. We have also enlisted the help of the National Playing Fields Association.

Would my hon. Friend agree that the local authorities and the racecourse authorities at Wolver Hampton and Birmingham have set a valuable example in this respect, and will he persevere with his effort to encourage local authorities to negotiate for the use of racecourses, because there are 70-odd racecourses in this country which could be adapted for such use on non-racing days?

I very much welcome the moves that have been made at Birmingham and Wolverhampton, and I am glad to tell my hon. Friend that a number of other local authorities are endeavouring to follow suit, but I do not think at the moment that any further publicity is needed from my Department.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, as a director of Birmingham racecourse, I can say that the arrangement that we have with the City of Birmingham has been very happy? It has helped our amenities by keeping the centre of the course clean and tidy, and I hope that other racecourses will adopt this idea.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many public inquiries resulting from planning appeals took place in Cornwall during each of the last five years; and how many have taken place during 1963, up to the latest convenient date.

I regret that the information requested is not readily available. The hon. Member may care to have figures relating to decisions issued, which, with permission, I will circulate in the Official Report.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary say what is the trend of those figures? Do they show that there are fewer public inquiries now than there used to be? Will he take account of the fact that, as he knows from correspondence with me, there is great dissatisfaction at the refusal to hold public inquiries in some parts of Cornwall recently?

In so far as there are fewer, this is only a conclusion to be drawn from the last year. On the whole, the figures are very much the same as in the past. The number of appeals generally in Cornwall has probably been slightly higher than the national average, but this is true of most rural areas and the percentage of those successful and otherwise is broadly in keeping with the national average.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will take the necessary steps to enable young married couples, who desire to become owner-occupiers, to take up a mortgage repayable over a period of 40 years at an interest rate of not more than 4 per cent.

No, Sir. The Government's objections to special forms of indirect subsidy have been explained on many occasions.

Would it not be more considerate: to these young married couples, who are finding great difficulty in getting decent homes at reasonable rents, for the Government to accept the principle in my question and so ease the present heavy burden that falls on young people who are trying to buy houses?

The problem of the number of houses for sale to such people is related to the capacity of the building industry, and the number of private houses under construction is at a record level.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what consultations have taken place or are contemplated for the provision of local employment in connection with the proposal by the London County Council for a new town of 25,000 people on Erith Marshes by the transfer of industry from London to the Erith district, in keeping with the policy of decentralisation of employment from London.

The only consultations about industry which have taken place with my Department have concerned the possibility of Exchequer assistance towards the cost of transferring non-conforming industry in London to the Erith area. No other consultations are contemplated at present.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when the plans were first discussed it was visualised that about 2,000 of the people from the new town would find employment locally? Is he aware that the unemployment situation in the Erith and Crayford areas has developed alarmingly in the last few months? Will he, therefore, bear in mind—since London said that it would look to his Department to find the money to transfer industry—that unless this is done before the new population moves in, Erith and Crayford could become another depressed area, which we want to avoid?

Before any decisions are taken the L.C.C. will obviously be re-examining the prospect of moving non-conforming industry—industry that can not, by its nature, go to development or overspill areas—to a place like Erith.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what safety standards he requires before giving approval to tenders for building high blocks of flats by local authorities.

Local authorities are themselves responsible for ensuring safety in the buildings they erect. The only requirement my right hon. Friend imposes is that they must certify that their dwellings are consistent with the building byelaws in force in the district.

In view of the large number of children who live in many of these high blocks of flats and the deaths which have already occurred through children falling from balconies and certain types of window, is it not essential that some safety standards should be set by the Minister since it is clear that the present arrangements are not satisfactory? Is it not important that local authorities should be made aware of the need, of which they do not at present seem to be aware, to erect guards to ensure safety on these balconies, particularly where very young children live?

I will certainly consider the hon. Lady's representations. In so far as we advise on design, the safety factors are absolutely basic to design. We give advice on design in individual cases and also generally in publications, and these matters are very much taken into account. However, I will consider what the hon. Lady has said.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind the difficulty some adults have experienced in seeing out of their windows at all in these high flats, because the windows are often far from the floor? Will he take that matter into account when considering the question of balcony guards, guard screens and so on and ensure that one is able to see through them? They should not be opaque.

I do not propose to dictate that sort of detail to local authorities.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs why the tenants of former Barber Trust houses, now in the possession of the Birmingham Corporation, are not to be allowed to purchase the freeholds of their property; and if he is aware that this was the expectation of those tenants when they were originally told that the Government was making a sale of these houses to any interested tenants a condition of their acquisition by the Corporation.

This is a matter for the Birmingham Corporation, which bought these houses in order to keep the estate together until a housing association can be formed to take it over, but it is being told that if it is willing to sell the freehold in particular cases any consent it needs from me will be forthcoming. I would add in fairness to the Corporation that, as I understand it, it gave no undertaking which would justify the tenants in their expectation.

Is the Minister aware that that change of position which he has taken up is very welcome? Is he aware that his predecessor insisted that tenants should have the right to buy and that the housing manager of the Corporation also said on 28th September, 1961, when the Corporation took the houses over, that tenants should have the right to buy their houses? Is he aware that many of the tenants in my constituency automatically took that to mean the right to buy the freehold? Because the Corporation is giving leases of 40 years, on the ground that the property might be needed for redevelopment, considerable controversy is being caused. Will the Minister, now that he has changed his mind, be more energetic in his representations to the Birmingham Corporation in an effort to get the Corporation to change its mind?

This is a matter for the Birmingham Corporation to decide. There may have been a certain amount of misunderstanding, perhaps on both sides, as to whether the sale referred to freehold or leasehold.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he will introduce legislation to prevent improvement grants from being given for the improvement of weekend cottages.

No, Sir. The test for grant should be whether the dwelling needs and is worth improving, regardless who happens to own or occupy it at any particular time.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in his own Minister's White Paper the Government's principle is declared to be that subsidies should not be given to people who do not need them; and that the vast majority of the English people think it monstrous that ratepayers' and taxpayers' money should be used to subsidise the provision of weekend cottages which make no contribution at all to the solution of the housing problem?

The hon. Member must appreciate that the object of this exercise is to preserve the houses. I am advised that in this matter it would be quite impossible to make a practical distinction of this kind. After all, many houses are improved by people who have only one house, and are then sold to those who may use them for weekends. Other people who are fully employed are virtually only at their homes at the weekends, and I am advised that it would be quite impossible to frame a statutory distinction.

Is my hon. Friend aware that ratepayers generally find that this is very good business because of the increase in rateable value? They make money on it.

I am sure that it is not in the interests of any area to allow houses to become slums unnecessarily, whoever owns them.

How do the Government square their attitude on this matter with their previous objection on Question No. 9 to what are called "indirect subsidies"?

The hon. Member knows perfectly well that the basis of a grant for improvement is quite different from the basis of a subsidy. The House should bear in mind that even under the Rent Acts it is possible for a controlled tenant to have the controlled tenancy of more than one house.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the very unsatisfactory reply from the Minister, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what decision has been taken regarding improvement grants where a bath unit can be installed without reducing living accommodation in a house, details of which were sent to his Department some months ago by the hon. Member for Liverpool, Exchange.

This is one of the matters I am considering in connection with legislation to implement the proposals affecting the improvement of houses outlined in the recent White Paper on Housing.

Will the Minister hurry up with this matter, because it is now 12 months since I sent information about it? There are very many two-bed-roomed houses in very good condition that have no bath. If it is possible to put a bath and the equipment in a kitchen it helps the housing problem, because many people do not want to move, and if a bath is put in a bedroom the house becomes overcrowded. I am very pleased to hear that the right hon. Gentleman is giving consideration to this matter, but will he please hurry up, as it needs urgent attention?

In this connection, has the Minister in mind the fact that some time ago his Department had discussions with the Liverpool Corporation on his Ministry's Circular 29 of 1962, which the Corporation regarded as introducing a more restrictive policy for the authorising of improvement grants? Does the case mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Exchange (Mrs. Braddock) come within the ambit of that policy Circular? If so, should not the right hon. Gentleman take the opportunity to communicate again with the Liverpool Corporation to clear up any possible doubt about the matter?

The whole detail of the improvement grant policy is under review at the moment, pending what I hope will be early legislation, but I will take up the hon. and learned Gentleman's point.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will introduce legislation to empower local authorities to borrow over a period of 80 years for housing purposes.

No, Sir. There is already power for local authorities to borrow over a period of 80 years for housing purposes but as a matter of policy the period is restricted to a maximum of 60 years except in the case of land.

Does this mean that the right hon. Gentleman is reluctant to grant loan sanction for a period of over 60 years although he is entitled to do so under existing legislation? Would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that in the National Income and Expenditure Blue Book and elsewhere the figure of 100 years has been accepted as the life of a house and that therefore local authorities should be able to borrow over a longer period than 60 years and thus bring down rents charged to their tenants?

It is prudent in a period of rapid change and obsolescence to keep the borrowing period for a property well within its effective life. To increase the borrowing period to 80 years would reduce the cost to the tenant by only 2 per cent.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs by how much the prices of houses have increased during the six months since 1st January, 1963.

I have no exact information about the selling price of houses. The average tender cost of local authority two-storey 3-bedroom houses, however, rose in the first five months of this year by £47 from £2,018 to £2,065.

Am I right in thinking that a report has recently been conveyed to the right hon. Gentleman on this issue of the increase in the price of houses since January, 1963? If so, is he bearing in mind the almost intolerable burden which house occupiers have to bear in the increased mortgage charges? This is becoming very serious among a large number of house occupiers.

I am not aware of having received a recent report on this matter, though I have seen estimates in the newspapers. I recognise that house prices have tended to rise. Nevertheless, house building is increasing faster. Of course, it is because we want to ease the strain on those who make great efforts to buy houses that we are going to introduce the Housing Corporation.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, if he will give special help to the borough of Willesden to deal with the cost of rehousing cases of eviction due to the Rent Act.

The rehousing of homeless families is part of the normal responsibilities of a housing authority, and Exchequer subsidies are already available to help with new building. The borough council has not represented to me that it is in need of special help.

Will the Minister concede that in the housing problem there are areas of acute shortage which need special consideration? Does he recall that we had to rehouse 74 hardship—mostly eviction—cases in the last 12 months and that we have spent £154,644 for that purpose? In addition to the provisions which he has already mentioned, of which we are aware, will the right hon. Gentleman give special consideration to areas like Willesden?

The point is that the subsidies are best directed to building new houses. I understand that Willesden has managed to buy over 100 houses for the sort of purpose the hon. Gentleman has in mind.

There is no opportunity to put new houses in Willesden because there is no land on which to erect them. Will the right hon. Gentleman give special consideration?

That is why the London Government Bill gives great prospects to places like Willesden.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how much money has been given to date from the £25 million designated for loans to housing associations.

By 17th July, advances of £711,330 had been made towards the cost of schemes for which the total Exchequer commitment will be about £9,200,000.

Is the Minister aware that these amounts are inadequate in the circumstances and that we want them increased? Will he consider making available cheaper interest rates on this particular form of loan for a borough like Willesden where there are 209 families each unable to live together under one roof because of lack of housing and 390 families overcrowded according to the statutory standard? Does he realise that we would welcome the co-operative approach of a housing association in order to cope with the problem but cannot go ahead because of the high interest rates at present prevailing?

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman will find that either the present scheme or any future scheme will break down on the interest rates. I must disagree with his view, because the rate of acceleration in the use of the £25 million scheme has been very striking over the past 18 months.

How much of the advances have been made in areas of severe housing need and how much in areas where substantial progress is already being made with housing apart from the associations?

That is another question, but my information is that most of it is for areas of high housing pressure.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what proposals he has for Government assistance to establish new industries in the south-west of England where wages are below the national average.

I shall continue to encourage industrial development in all localities in the south-west of England listed as development districts, where the provisions of the Local Employment Act apply.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that they are not all development districts? There is some despondency in the West Country about the difficulty of attracting the small industries which we need. We could do with help from my right hon. Friend's Department.

I have a great deal of sympathy with the view expressed by my hon. Friend, but my first priority must be the development districts, although, of course, from time to time there are projects which are tied to a particular locality. When they are tied to the South-West, industrial development certificates will, of course, be granted.

Surely the President of the Board of Trade is aware that in development districts like north Lanarkshire, where there is very heavy unemployment, wages are lower than they are in equivalent places in the Midlands and the South. What does he propose to do to try to bring more work to the people of Scotland who are desperately in need of it?

Relative wage levels are not among the factors which I take into consideration in operating the policy for steering industry.