asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will now make a statement about extending the specialisation scheme in the education branch of the Royal Air Force so as to include more arts graduates

The scheme is being extended to include arts graduates and the first officers will be selected in the next few weeks.

May I ask my right hon. Friend if he is aware that that statement will be most welcome to arts graduates in the education branch, and if he will appreciate that I am not being ungrateful when I ask if he is also aware that there will still be a considerable number of squadron leaders in that branch who will be very disappointed that their prospects of promotion have turned out to be nothing like as good as they were led to expect when they originally joined?

I thank my hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how much pension would be received today by a 14-year-old orphaned child of a squadron leader who retired on the 1956 Code after maximum service, if both parents had died on 3rd November, 1958; and how much it would be if the parents had died the next day.

£65 a year and £162 a year respectively.

:Is it not very odd that a child who lost his parents before 4th November, 1958, should receive only £65 a year, whereas a child whose parents died on the day after that receives nearly three times as much, although in each case the father retired on the same day, with the same rank, and after the same length of service? Is not this an extraordinary anomaly which it is impossible to justify?

:No, Sir. It has been justified for many years, and we are all well aware of the problem. As the hon. Gentleman knows, my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence has these matters under consideration and I cannot add more to the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how much pension, other than her own pension, would be received today by the 55-year-old widow of an air marshal who lost her husband on 3rd November, 1958, for one child; and how much would she receive for the child if her husband died the next day, assuming in both cases that her husband had retired after maximum service on the 1956 code.

£41 9s. 0d. a year and £207 2s. 0d. a year respectively.

:Does not that reply reveal an even more intolerable state of affairs than did his reply to the Question put by the hon. Member for Huddersfield, West (Mr. Wade)? In this case one widow receives five times as much for her child, for one day's difference. Does not this illustrate the iniquity of the whole doctrine of the immutability of Service pensions? Does my hon. Friend further realise that it is simply not good enough to tell us that the Minister of Defence is considering these things? Will he tell the House what discussions he has had with the other Service Ministers about this matter? Does he realise that Service pensioners and their dependants, and the widows and children of ex-Service men, must be treated fairly and differently? It is wholly iniquitous to continue like this.

:As I told the hon. Member for Huddersfield, West (Mr. Wade), and I now tell my hon. Friend, of course I am aware of this problem, as is the whole House. As I have said, my right hon. Friend is looking into it, and in this he has my full support.

:Is my right hon. Friend aware that he has not answered my Question? He has not told us what discussions he is having with the Minister of Defence. What is being done about it, beyond the fact the Minister of Defence is considering it?

I have nothing to add to what I have said. As for discussions with my right hon. Friend, of course I have discussions with him on many subjects, but it would not be proper to reveal them to the House of Commons.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will ensure that all Service men who are afforded indulgence passages home on Royal Air Force aircraft are guaranteed a return flight to base without charge

:No, Sir. Service men returning to duty overseas are given priority when there is spare capacity in a Royal Air Force aircraft. But an indulgence passage is a privilege which can only be granted when such spare capacity is available.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say, first, whether records are kept of these indulgence flights and how often Service men take advantage of them? Secondly, although Service men are informed that if there are no vacancies on returning Service aircraft they will have to pay their own return fares back to base, they treat this rather lightheartedly, and when they are due to return to Middle East or Far East stations and are informed that there are no vacancies on Service aircraft and therefore they have to pay between £50 and £100 to get back, this causes distress to them and often to their families? Even if it means that there will be a curtailment of some of these indulgence passages, is it not worth considering the suggestion made in my Question?

:No, Sir. As the hon. Gentleman knows, I have looked at this very carefully. When there is a free seat available in an aircraft it is much better that someone should have the benefit of using it, and it is made clear that if there is no chance of getting back free the man will have to pay his fare. This is quite separate from the normal overseas leave when the man gets back on a free passage.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will now make a statement on the development of the TSR2 and the technique to be used to discharge its nuclear weapon

Apart from the fact that I am satisfied with progress, no, Sir.

:Can the right hon. Gentleman give the House some indication of when he expects the Royal Air Force to receive its first operational aircraft? Does he stand by his original statement that the TSR2 will fly before March, 1964? Why is there all this mystery about the new weapons system? What is this wonder bomber? Has not the House a right to know about it?

:We have been into this matter many times before. I hope that the hon. Member will take the opportunity, by arrangement, to go to Weybridge to see the TSR2.

Is it not important that this weapons system should not only be capable of carrying nuclear weapons but should be able to operate in a tactical and strike rôle with traditional weapons?

:Will the right hon. Gentleman at any rate make it clear that some of the rumours that have been floating around about failures in the development of this aircraft are quite wrong, and that the thing is going ahead as expeditiously as we would wish?

:I thought that I had made that clear in the first part of my statement, when I said that I was satisfied.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what are the financial conditions governing the tenure of the United States Air Force base at Prestwick

Her Majesty's Government recover the costs attributable to United States Air Force use of Prestwick in accordance with the usual arrangements governing the presence of this force in the United Kingdom.

:I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman would not wish to mislead the House. Is he aware that there is another condition, whereby the commanding officer demands that an American Air Force person must have the sum of £100 before he is allowed to marry a bonny Scots lassie?

That is out of order. I call Mr, Brockway.

:On a point of order. Is it the bonny Scots lassie who is out of order, or the question, Mr. Speaker?

The question is out of order, whether it relates to a bonny Scots lassie or anything else.

asked the Secretary of Stale for Air if he will establish route flights from Northolt Airport so that they avoid built-up areas in the neighbour hood of Slough similar to those which have been laid down for London Airport

:Because of its proximity to London (Heathrow) Airport, the majority of outbound flights from Northolt ate confined to two lanes to the north-west, and north-east of the airfield. Except in very bad conditions, the only aircraft bound from or to Northolt which may pass near Slough are a limited number which are allowed by the Heathrow control to use the airways system. Under certain wind conditions these aircraft are routed round the Burnham Beacon.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. Is he aware that London Airport lays it down that westward aircraft shall fly across the playing fields of Eton College and so avoid the built-up area of Slough? Is he further aware that when complaints are made about aircraft flying over Slough, and the noise that they cause, the reply is frequently made that those aircraft come from Northolt rather than Heathrow? Will he do something to limit the flight of these aircraft over Slough?

I shall write to the hon. Member, giving him the details, but there are remarkably few cases. At most there are only about 50 a month.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what progress has been made in giving the Royal Air Force operational experience of vertical take-off and landing aircraft

:A few Royal Air Force officers have already flown prototypes of vertical take-off and landing aircraft. However the Royal Air Force will obtain its initial experience of operating this type of aircraft under the joint P1127 trials programme with the German Federal Republic and the United States announced in the 1962 Defence White Paper.

:Bearing in mind that this revolutionary British innovation was achieved entirely without the support of the Air Ministry until it was actually flying, can the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that he will give this invention much more support than it is receiving at present? Is it not an entirely unsatisfactory state of affairs that the first operational vertical take-off and landing aircraft will be French ones, although this was a British invention in the first instance?

:We are still ahead. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Aviation is fully confident about this aircraft. We very much hope that trials will start next year.

:Can the Minister at least assure the House that a British vertical take-off and landing aircraft will be the first one of its type to be operational?

I could not give that assurance. What I say is that our P1154, when it comes into operation, will be the best in the world.

:Can my right hon. Friend confirm that despite the unfortunate event which took place at the Paris Air Show the confidence of the Royal Air Force in the P1127 and the P1154 is in no way shaken?

That is so.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will make a statement on the operational rôle of the strike-reconnaissance aircraft in Cyprus.

The Canberra force in the Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus has a nuclear strike and reconnaissance rôle in support of C.E.N.T.O. It is also a ground attack force equipped for the conventional rôle with rockets and high explosive bombs, to which will soon be added the French Nord-Aviation A.S.30 guided air-to-ground missile.

:Is not the radius of action of this reconnaissance-strike aircraft such that for all practical purposes it covers only friendly territory? Are there any arrangements for this aircraft to operate from bases in other parts of the Middle East?

:These aircraft have operational plans, in which I am perfectly confident. They will carry out a wide range of activities.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what study he has made of the data made available to him from tests carried out by the Radio Corporation of America Limited at Fylingdales Early Warning Station; and what conclusions he has drawn regarding the length of warning of hostile missiles and the accuracy of retaliatory action

:A team of members of the United States Air Force, the Royal Air Force and the Radio Corporation of America Ltd. is carrying out routine tests of equipment installed at Fylingdales. These are proceeding satisfactorily. The length of warning of hostile missiles given by the station would depend on a number of variables, but I can assure the hon. Member that the V-bombers would be able to carry out accurate retaliatory action. The accuracy of the retaliation is not, of course, dependent upon the warning given from Fylingdales.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have received some information, which I am prepared to pass on to him, which suggests that this station is virtually worthless in its present position, because of the topography of the local area; that the maximum amount of warning given would be two minutes, and that any information sent to the launching pad would be hundreds of miles off target? If I give the right hon. Gentleman the information and the source of it, will the Minister investigate it and discuss it with the Americans?

I have seen this information, which is pretty inaccurate. It has appeared in one northern newspaper, and refers to the multi-path propagation problems of a new radar station. This is fully in hand, and I have full confidence that any local difficulties that may exist will be quickly overcome. As for the siting of the station, there is no question that this is the right site. It was decided upon by our experts and American experts. I have checked this newspaper article, which may have been the source of the hon. Member's information, and I find it to be entirely erroneous and misleading.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the source of this information is not a newspaper article? I will give him the source. Will he now tell me that if I pass it to him he will investigate it?

indicated assent.

Can my right hon. Friend say when this important part of the overall defensive system in the West will come into operation?

I very much hope that it will be in September.

asked the Minister of Transport if, before deciding whether to approve rail closures submitted to him by the Railways Board, he will give a general direction to the Board to consult the trade unions, with a view to securing economies by the abandonment of restrictive practices and thus enable certain passenger services to be retained

:No, Sir. The Board informs me that it is already doing all it can, in consultation with the trade unions, to limit the effect of any restrictive practices on the cost of its services, but it does not regard such practices as a factor materially affecting the economics of any passenger services which it plans to discontinue.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that it would be against the best interests of the railway workers, and of the nation as a whole, if passenger services were to be withdrawn when they could have been made economically viable by the abandonment of restrictive practices, and will he look at this matter again?

The question of restrictive practices is one of management between the Railways Board and the unions. In this industry I am bound to say that there has been a good deal of useful consultation.

Why is the need for economy so little stressed when economies might even make the difference between closing or not closing a marginal line?

:If my hon. Friend has any case in mind, perhaps he would let me have details.

As the Minister seems to accept that there are some restrictive practices, will he lay a White Paper and inform the House what are those practices? Is he aware that the railway men do not know of any restrictive practices involved in the operation of the railways which would affect the profitability or otherwise of these branch lines?

:It is a question of degree, of how much productivity may be obtained from a given number of men working harmoniously with the management. Measures for achieving greater productivity are among the subjects discussed between the management and the unions.

:But that is not a question of restrictive practices as such.

asked the Minister of Transport what provisional estimate for necessary road improvements was made by his divisional road engineers as a result of their first examination of the Beeching Report

:My divisional road engineers have made a broad examination of the consequences of possible rail closures in their areas, but they have not yet beenable to advise me what particular road improvements may be needed; obviously this must await the detailed examination of each closure proposal. No estimate of cost is therefore possible at this stage.

Have these investigations taken fully into account the additional traffic at holiday times in the holiday areas where railway lines will be closed and holiday-makers will be able to travel only by road?

They will be. The proposals are only those of the Railways Board. Each closure proposal will come before the Minister and then the question of alternative means of transport, the number of buses on the road, the extent and strength of the road and whether it is necessary to widen it will be taken into consideration.

:As the closures represent a saving of central funds, will my right hon. Friend consider making a sizeable contribution from central funds to improve roads in areas where there are rail closures?

We had better look at each case on its merits.

May I ask whether when deciding about the closing of a line the Minister will take into account the probable cost of supplying road transport facilities?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Transport what special steps he is taking to improve road communications to development districts; and, in particular, what additional expenditure he has authorised as the result of the scheduling of the Bideford-Torrington area under the Local Employment Act, 1960

:Apart from authorising special programmes which benefit a whole area, as I have done in the North-East, I can make grants or loans under the Local Employment Act, 1960, for roadworks which help stimulate employment and industry in development districts. I have not authorised such expenditure in the Bideford-Torrington area. But I am willing to consider any application that I consider eligible under the Act.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for saying that he will consider applications under the Act. May I inform him that I wish to make some applications? Would not he agree that in principle it is ridiculous for one Ministry to schedule an area as a development district and for his Ministry then to say that the railway line is to be closed? Is not he aware that the criterion on which an industrialist decides whether to go to a particular district is nearly always the adequacy of the communications?

That may be so. It is one of the points which will be taken into account before permission is given for a railway line to be closed. That has been said over and over again and I can only repeat it now.

Does not the Minister realise that there is adanger that while the possibility of a rail closure is in the offing industrialists will not go to a district because they are afraid that the railway line will be closed?

In which case it is up to individual Members of Parliament to say that industrialists will not go to a particular district, and give the reason, and we will look at it before the line is closed.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will give a general direction, in the public interest, to the British Railways Board requiring them to remove turnstiles from public conveniences on premises of British Railways

:I am informed that only two public conveniences on railway premises have turnstiles. I do not consider that their removal would be an appropriate occasion for a general direction, but I am bringing the matter to the attention of the Railways Board.

:Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his Government have decided to instruct local authorities to remove all turnstiles from municipal lavatories because they constitute a threat to the health and safety of women and young children? Is he also aware that some of the greatest inconvenience and danger from turnstiles arises from those on the premises of transport undertakings and that it is very important that British Railways—as a publicly-owned industry—should give a lead to privately-owned bus operators? Will he give an assurance that British Railways will give that lead?

:I will bring this to the attention of British Railways, but only two public conveniences on their premises have turnstiles. One is for ladies and one for gentlemen, so it is equality all round.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will give a date for the commencement of work on the Crocker-hill diversion on the A.27.

:As my hon. Friend knows, this diversion is linked with other road works, which are still under consideration. I intend to publish details of the proposals as a whole as soon as they are finalised.

:Is not my right hon. Friend aware that the West Sussex County Council has been itching to get ahead with this part of the scheme for years and that the delay in proceeding with the work is entirely due to disagreement between Ministerial Departments? Cannot he give an assurance that this part of the work can be commenced this year?

:I cannot give that assurance, but I will promise my hon. Friend to look at this matter again and see whether we can press on as quickly as possible.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will in future arrange for meter time to be free on Easter Saturday

No, Sir. There is no evidence that the demand for short-term parking in meter zones is less on Easter Saturday than on other Saturdays.

:Will my right hon. Friend come round with me when I am working in Marylebone next Easter Saturday and see the hordes of parking meter attendants roaming round the streets looking for the occasional motorist, and see that, on the whole, the meters are not used to the full?

I hope that my hon. Friend will not mind if I resist that invitation; but I will send one of my officials with him.

asked the Minister of Transport what representations he has received about the need for pedestrian crossings in the village of Wychbold; and what action he intends to take as a result of these representations.

:There has been some local pressure for a pedestrian crossing here, but this has not been supported by the police. In my view the volume of traffic is not sufficient to justify a crossing.

In view of the fact that 300 children have to cross the road to get to the school in the village, may I ask my right hon. Friend to consider this matter from the point of view of road safety?

I will consider it from a road safety point of view, but the best protection for school children is a school crossing patrol, which is a matter for the local education authority. I do not think a zebra crossing is the right remedy in this case.

asked the Minister of Transport what progress has been made in improving the A.25 road in the past 12 months

Two schemes covering three-quarters of a mile in total length have been completed. Three other schemes covering two and a quarter miles have been started.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for this comment, but how does he explain his Written Answer to me on 3rd July this year giving exactly the same length of road as he gave in his Answer to me on 3rd July last year, which had double white lines for half its length? From the reply given on 3rd July, in two years there appears to be no improvement.

I must ask my hon. Friend for notice of that question.

I am sorry, I could not hear what my right hon. Friend said.

I said that I must ask my hon. Friend for notice of that question.

:Is it not intolerable that when my right hon. Friend has the same Question put down to him on the same date, one year apart, he gives the same Answer each year? He ought to be well aware of his Answer to me. Has he not taken the trouble to go into the matter? This is the principal road from my constituency and the majority of Kent to the west of England. I must press my right hon. Friend to look at this matter seriously.

If myhon. Friend refers to previous Questions, surely be can do so in his original Question.

:On a point of order. Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter again on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Transport (1) when it is intended to proceed with the reconstruction of that part of the A.19 road between Sheraton Road End and Cold Hesledon;

(2) what decision he has reached on further development of the A.19 road in County Durham; and when the work will begin.

We are planning to start work on the Sheraton and Shotton Bypasses and the dualling of a 5 mile length of A.19 north of Wolviston later this year. The two by-pass schemes are among those which have been specially brought forward in the road programme to help employment in the North-East. A number of smaller improvements on the A.19 are also planned.

I am considering with my colleagues concerned the possibility of further accelerating the road programme in the North-East generally.

While I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for the attention which he has given to this matter and for the letters which he has sent me on the subject, may I ask whether it was not intended to proceed expeditiously with this part of the road because of the industrial development associated with it? Is it not the case that in the last letter which he sent to me, which I received only yesterday, he seemed to indicate that it would be some considerable time before the scheme was proceeding? Has he changed his mind in the last 24 hours?

:I never change my mind after I have sent the right hon. Gentleman a letter. The great difficulty in my Department arises from the statutory processes which Parliament has laid down. They take an incredible amount of time. The House has laid it down that the Minister of Transport should obey those statutory requirements. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that, subject to that, I move as fast as I possibly can.

:While thanking my right hon. Friend for this move forward, may I ask him whether he will make special efforts to let it be known in the North-East that this has arisen out of the Government's programme to help to alleviate unemployment.

Yes, Sir.

:Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this part of the road, which is in my constituency, is not even known to the hon. Lady the Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward)?

rose—

:Order. These are deep waters.

:On a point of order. Is it in order for the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) to assume something which is not correct?

Nor is it in order for him to ask the Minister to deal with the matter in that way, but I think that no grievous injury to the hon. Lady's reputation has been done.

asked the Minister of Transport what is the terminal date of the current four-year period at the end of which he will exercise control to ensure that all surplus revenue from parking meters is applied to the provision or maintenance of parking accommodation off the highway; and what steps he is taking to ensure that all local authorities concerned present their accounts in such a way that he is in a position to discharge his statutory duty in this regard

The four-year period varies from one local authority to another. The first quadrennial period for the City of Westminster, which was the first local authority to install parking meters, ended on 31st March, 1963.

I am sure the local authorities are aware of their statutory duties, and if it should be necessary to carry forward any surplus from one four year period to another, will make the necessary application for my consent. I have in fact asked all local authorities concerned to let me have annually copies of their parking meter accounts.

Is my right hon. Friend convinced that this complicated system will have the desired result of making sure that motorists get the off-street parking for which they have paid?

I think that it will, but if by any chance it proves to be too complicated as legislation has laid it down, one would have to consider altering it.

:Can the Minister assure the House that the money derived from the meters is being devoted to off-street parking arrangements as suggested by the Government and endorsed by the House? Is he satisfied that it is working effectively?

:I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that it is working quite effectively. In Westminster they have spent more money on off-street parking than they have collected in meter rents.

asked the Minister of Transport, in view of the general concern about the proposals of local authorities to raise their parking meter charges and the limited extent to which surplus revenue from these meters has been devoted to the provision of off-street car parking, if he will introduce legislation to enable him to control the operation of all parking meter schemes and to determine the amount of money to be devoted to construction of new car parks.

I do not agree with the premises on which the hon. Member's question is based. In any case, the present law gives me full control over the charges and other important features of parking meter schemes and requires that all surplus revenue from them must go to providing and operating off-street car parks.

:Is the Minister aware of the fact that people are complaining very bitterly about the moneys not being used in that way? If he is satisfied about the position, why are the parking meter charges to be raised? Does he propose to see to it that all the money which is received in future from the increased parking meter charges will be used for this kind of parking provision? Does he not think that it is serious that these charges are being increased in the way in which he is suggesting, driving motorists, who are entitled to some kind of return for the vast sums of money which they have paid, away completely from the use of their cars?

Since the meters were introduced into London in 1958, more than 4,000 additional public off-street car spaces have been made available in the central area by local authorities and private enterprise. These are not used to the full now. There are vacant spaces for motorists' use. It is wrong to say that there is not the accommodation there. It is there, but it is not being used, and the reason it is not being used is that it is cheaper to park all day on the street than to go off the street.

Will the Minister publish the accounts or get the accounts published so that we can see what the facts are?

I do not mind doing that.

:Is it not a fact that the amount of space available for off-street parking is very small and that the difference between the gross and the net receipts is only about 10 per cent. after all the expenses of the hoards of attendants, loans and maintenance have been paid?

:Whatever the net proceeds are, especially in the case of Westminster, they have been applied to off-street parking, and more money has been provided by Westminster City Council for off-street parking. This was the point raised by the original Question.

asked the Minister of Transport if he is satisfied with the extent to which off-street parking facilities are provided, or to be provided, out of revenue received from parking meters; and if he will make a statement

Net revenue from parking meters in London amounted to just under £400,000 up to March, 1963. By the same date local authorities concerned had spent many times this amount in providing off-street parking facilities. There are plans for the provision of more. The position outside London is similar.

In general, I regard progress as satisfactory so far.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many people regard the spread of meters throughout London as pock-marking and hideously disfiguring London's streets and squares? Is he aware also that the net revenue derived from meters seems to be out of all proportion to the disfigurement and inconvenience caused? Does he think that this is the best way of solving London's parking problems? Should he not look at the whole problem again?

:The primary object of parking meters here, as in the United States of America and elsewhere, is not so much the raising of revenue as the controlling of parking on the streets. That is the object of the exercise. The first priority on the road should be for moving traffic. If there is any space available for parking, it should be used by the short-term parker—the shopper and the person doing business there—and not by the long-term parker. If there is a space available, it should be used by eight people for one hour each a day rather than by one person for eight hours a day. That is the object of the parking meter.

Although not disagreeing at all with the view just expressed by the Minister, may I ask him whether the calculation which he gave in his original Answer was not wholly misleading? Did he not compare the annual revenue derived from meters with the capital expenditure involved in constructing off-street parking? The two should not be compared. They have very little relationship one with the other.

:I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that local authorities which have parking meters in their areas are not satisfied from the financial point of view. This imposes a great burden on them and on their ratepayers.

:Is my right hon. Friend aware that the other day his hon. Friend told me that there were 24,000 off-street parking places in Central London? Does he not think that this number is grossly inadequate?

It is for the motorist to decide that. All I can say is that they are not all being used.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that much off-street parking is not fully used, particularly the giant underground car park at Hyde Park?

It is the same at Finsbury Square. It is the same at other places. All over London there are places which motorists could use if they were prepared to park off the streets. If they can park on the streets for less than they can off the streets, they will not park off the streets.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will issue instructions prohibiting all night work on motorways and other major road constructions where residential areas are likely to be affected.

I sympathise with people disturbed by construction work at night. In particular cases I have asked contractors to help and they have done so. I will do the same in other appropriate cases. But night work could not be prohibited altogether because by their nature some operations may, on occasions, have to be continuous or carried out only at night. Moreover, night work must at times be accepted because on balance it is more economical or reduces dislocation to day-time traffic.

:Is my right hon. Friend aware that because he happened to be away recently it took over four days of urgent representation to stop all-night work on the new M.4 motorway at Brentford where it was disturbing the rest of over 500 people? Despite all considerations of urgency in various roadworks, does he not consider that the needs of the private individual should always be given greater consideration than any construction work which may be going on?

:The difficulty is to balance two conflicting interests, one of amenity and one of proceeding ahead with the work as fast as we possibly can. Sometimes it is necessary, particularly in pile driving, to proceed continuously, and that is why this was carried out at night, especially over Whit week when there was night work by the subcontractors, Marples, Ridgway and Partners, Ltd. This has been stopped, and I hope that my hon. Friend is now satisfied.

asked the Minister of Transport what plans he has for accommodating the increasing number of large heavy industrial vehicles which use the B.4102 road between South Birmingham, Solihull, Meriden and Coventry

The responsibility for initiating improvements to this route rests with the local highway authority. Works have recently been carried out to improve visibility at two junctions on B.4102 between Hampton in Arden and Catherine De Barnes Heath and a further scheme for the construction of a new stretch of road half a mile in length immediately to the west of the River Blythe is expected to be completed by the end of this year. A scheme for the improvement of Hampton Lane, Solihull, which forms part of this route is also being considered.

I welcome my right hon. Friend's reply in regard to the improvements envisaged for this route. Is he aware that once the heavy commercial vehicles are off the road and diverted in other ways private motor cars are likely to travel very fast through the neighbouring village of Hampton in Arden? Would he take steps to enforce a strict speed limit through the village?

:Enforcement is for the police. Fixing a speed limit is for my Department. I will consider my hon. Friend's suggestion.

asked the Minister of Transport if the contracts have been agreed to for the construction of the Sheffield to Leeds section of the M.1 motorway

Tenders will be invited as soon as the statutory processes and the complex engineering preparation are complete. As the hon. Member is aware, I plan to start construction of the Don Viaduct, and of some substantial portion of the roadworks, during the next financial year. The remaining roadworks will follow by stages thereafter.

:May I have a firm assurance from the right hon. Gentleman that it will be possible to continue with the whole length of this road during 1964?

I could not give that assurance. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we realise the importance of this scheme, and if we cannot get the continuity that we desire it will be because of difficulties such as statutory processes.

asked the Minister of Transport why land required for the M.1 motorway at Leicester Forest East was enclosed and fenced in without prior consultation with the owners and without a compulsory purchase order; and what steps are being taken to compensate the owners of the land

:Negotiations with the owners of properties in Charnwood Drive had taken place before their land was entered last April. By a regrettable error in the plans used for the negotiations and the compulsory purchase order, the amount of land was understated by about 200 sq. yds. out of 3,700 sq. yds. required from six back gardens. The land was fenced at the request of a firm of solicitors acting for all the owners and increased compensation has been offered. I am grateful to the owners for allowing the contractors to remain in occupation and thus avoiding any delay to the motorway.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is considerable anxiety amongst these owners, who are not people of very substantial means, about the whole matter? The line has been moved twice without their knowledge and without any negotiations with them. What does he intend to do about properly and adequately compensating them for the land which was taken in excess of the land which it was intended to take and which has been enclosed without their knowledge? Will he make inquiries about this?

I will make inquiries, but, as I said originally, increased compensation has been offered and the district valuer will reopen negotiations if these people are dissatisfied.

asked the Minister of Transport what was the number of motor accidents involving personal injury between Taplow and Langley on the A.4 during the period 9th April to 30th June, 1962, and on the A.4 and M.4 together during the same period in 1963

:There were 53 personal injury accidents on the A.4 and M.4 together from 9th April to 30th June, 1963. In the corresponding period of 1962 there were 40 accidents on the A.4 and four accidents on the length of M.4 then open to traffic.

:Will the Minister agree that one of the objects of building the M.4 was both to relieve traffic and reduce accidents on the A.4? Is he aware also that, when the M.1 came into use, the combined accidents on the M.1and the roads it relieved fell by 26 per cent.? In this case the number of accidents has risen. Is not this due to the fact that there is only a two-lane road on the M.4 as compared with a three-lane road on the M.1?

As a matter of fact, we have gone into this very carefully and the period chosen by the hon. Member is from 9th April to 30th June, 1963. Everybody agrees that that period is too short to draw any reasonable conclusion. Therefore, I think we must wait for some considerable time more before we can draw a satisfactory conclusion.

asked the Minister of Transport what reports he has received from the Road Research Laboratory regarding the water-holding propensity of the various types of surface on M.1; and what are his conclusions regarding future motorway surfaces

:The Road Research Laboratory has not yet completed its investigations. Our later motorways are being built with higher standards of drainage and a steeper slope from the centre. Central reserve drainage has been extended to the full length of M.1. These measures should help to combat the spray nuisance caused by water on the carriageways in periods of heavy rainfall.

Was the camber of this road wrong from the very start? Many of us who use the M.1 frequently after rain find that, even with this new irrigation, if that is the proper word, in the centre lane the water is still there. When motorists are called upon to brake rapidly, as they frequently are because of obstructions on the road, it becomes very dangerous. Is the camber the cause?

:It is part of the civil engineering problem. The cross-fall on M.1 is 1:48, which is generally steeper than on Continental motorways. On motorways designed now the cross-fall on the carriageway has increased to 1:40, with an even steeper cross-fall on the hard shoulder. The cross-fall is the slope of the carriageway from the centre of the motorway to the side. We are increasing it.

asked the Minister of Transport what consultation he had with the motoring organisations and local authorities prior to announcing his scheme for revised parking charges in London

None, Sir. The various measures I have suggested for making the control of street parking in London more effective have been put to the local authorities concerned and will be fully discussed with them. I have also published my proposals in order to give everyone interested an opportunity to comment. Copies have been sent to the motoring organisations. Their views, as well as those of other representative bodies, will be fully considered.

:Is the Minister aware that his scheme for increasing parking meter charges, taken together with the totting-up of offences by motorists, taken together with the other restrictive schemes, is making the motorist feel that he is being subjected to persecution? Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the importance of carrying the motoring organisations with him when he makes such announcements?

:These are proposals, and proposals only. The motoring organisations and the local authorities will have their chance to say exactly what they like about these proposals. We shall listen to them. These proposals are not made because we are against the motorist. We want to try to make traffic move in the centre of London. I only wish that some day I were able to remove all the restrictions and allow the motorists and others to do what they want for a few days. Then we should see what would happen.

:Is my right hon. Friend aware that the motoring organisations in Sweden themselves suggested differential parking in Stockholm and that the system has worked very well?

I agree. But there they do not have the same democratic system as we have.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that no telephone or other form of communication is provided on the Doncaster by-pass to help motorists when breakdowns occur to obtain assistance, particularly at night; and if he will take steps to remedy this omission

:Telephones will be provided on the by-pass when it is linked to the extension of M.1. On short lengths of motorway, as on many lengths of trunk road in open country, drivers must rely for assistance in emergencies on passing drivers, police and other patrols and any nearby telephones.

Can the Minister say how long it will be before this road is connected with the M.1? Will he remember that it is almost impossible at night to contact police cars and other people using the road, particularly if an accident occurs late at night? If he intends to install telephones or another form of communication on this road, will he get a move on quickly?

:The principle we follow is that the provision of emergency telephones can be justified only on major motorways—that is, motorways of not less than 25 miles long. The Doncaster bypass is so far only 15 miles long and until it is linked with the other motorway it will not have telephones.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will introduce legislation to make the fitting of wing mirrors on new vehicles compulsory

:No, Sir; vehicles which afford the driver sufficient field of view to both sides and have an effective internal mirror do not need to be fitted with wing mirrors. A quick glance before turning is safer than relying upon what they may show.

:Does not my right hon. Friend realise that a great number of accidents are caused when vehicles pull out from a parked position and it is impossible to see through a rear mirror whether the road is clear and to maintain a view when one is coming out on to the road?

That is covered by the Highway Code which says:

"Before you move off, look round, even though you may have looked in your mirror, to see that no one is about to overtake you."

Does not my right hon. Friend realise that a pedestrian may dodge out from behind a car and danger can arise from that kind of thing, and that a driver cannot cover such an eventuality by the use of the rear mirror alone?

Wing mirrors can be interfered with. If one leaves a car parked, it is possible to return and find that the mirrors have been moved out of focus.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will give a general direction to the licensing authorities henceforth to refuse Passenger Service Licences to omnibuses which have inadequate facilities for carrying luggage and prams

No, Sir. This is a matter which is within the Traffic Commissioners' discretion when considering applications for, or variations of, road service licences. With their knowledge of local needs the Traffic Commissioners are in a position to consider each case on its merits.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that one of the reasons why rail closures are being opposed is that some bus companies will not allow luggage and prams to be carried on the vehicles? Would my right hon. Friend at least make a statement to the effect that he expects every bus company to offer these facilities, because that would ease the transport problem in some rural areas very much indeed?

:I agree with the principle behind the supplementary question. I have already published proposals to allow buses to draw trailers to carry luggage and prams. If the Traffic Commissioners issue a road service licence enabling a trailer to be used, trailers may be provided.

:Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that coach body manufacturers, as opposed to coach chassis manufacturers, are producing designs—apart from trailers—suitable to meet the future requirements which are their concern? Is he aware that there is a belief that coach body designers and manufacturers resist the idea of producing designs which are somewhat unconventional so far as this country is concerned?

:I am not aware of that. I have never heard that suggestion before. If the hon. Gentleman has any method of design which he thinks ought to be considered, I will look at it.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will take steps to ensure that no person shall drive a motor vehicle at such slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation for compliance with the law

I do not think it is practicable to lay down or enforce a general requirement such as my hon. Friend suggests. I will consider, however, whether the point can be suitably incorporated in the next revision of the Highway Code.

:Will my right hon. Friend look at this again? Is he aware that the wording of the Question is exactly the wording of the law which is enforced in over 20 American States. If it is found possible to enforce it there why cannot we?

:We cannot adopt everything which is adopted in every other foreign country.

:As the Minister introduced legislation which was passed by this House laying down the minimum speeds for vehicles on the roads, will he tell the House whether he intends to implement that law? Has he any plans?

I want to implement it, but first we should get our roads into a condition where the implementation could be enforced.

Will my right hon. Friend try to deal with the terrible problem of goods vehicles and old motor cars which crawl up hills at 5 miles an hour and hurtle down at 50 miles an hour? Can he do something about that?

All the Ministers of Transport in Europe have considered this matter at various times. Sooner or later I think there will have to be a decision in which the power-to-weight ratio of goods vehicles will be settled.

asked the Minister of Transport what progress has been made with research into the design of rigid mud-guarding to make this more effective in preventing wheels of vehicles from throwing spray into the path of following vehicles

:The Road Research Laboratory has planned a programme and constructed equipment for research into this matter. I understand the work may need to continue for some months.

Can something be done about this before we come to wet weather again next winter? We have not had a very good summer and we may have a much worse winter. Is my right hon. Friend aware that it is extremely dangerous, particularly on motorways, when fast-travelling traffic throws up spray which can completely blind motorists following behind?

:I do not disagree about the seriousness of this matter. The Road Research Laboratory has already built a twin-wheel tanker-type vehicle designed to water the road in front of its wheels so that research can take place. It is taking place as fast as can be done consistent with getting results.

Will the right hon. Gentleman advise motorists to fix windscreen washers to their cars so that they can avoid this trouble?

:It is very difficult to stop heavy trucks throwing water from the side of the tyres—not behind, but from the side. The real answer is to have water which comes on to the wind screen and the windscreen wiper goes across it.

:Will my right hon. Friend agree that research has taken a remarkably long time, in view of the fact that these things seem to be taken better care of on the Continent?

:The Road Research Laboratory, with which I have been in touch, thinks that it cannot do this in too short a time. It wants to make exhaustive studies in order to get the right solution.

asked the Minister of Transport if he has yet appointed the Committee to advise him on the regulation of motoring events on public highways; and what it its composition

Yes, Sir. My noble Friend, Lord Chesham, will be the Chairman of the Committee. With permission, I will circulate a list of the members in the Official Report.

:Whilst welcoming the formation of the advisory committee under my noble Friend, may I ask if my right hon. Friend is aware that there is still considerable concern about unregulated motor car and motor cycle rallies which cause a great deal of dis- turbance in the country? When can he make the necessary order to set up a national scheme to control these unregulated rallies? Is he aware that the R.A.C. and the A.C.U., with wide experience of these rallies, would be willing to give him every help in this matter?

I shall certainly consider that proposal.

asked the Minister of Transport when he will implement the recommendation of the Wilson Committee on the Problem of Noise that the use of motor horns, except when necessary to avoid danger, should be forbidden at all times in built-up areas; and what action is to be taken on the Committee's other recommendations for the reduction of noise from motor vehicles

asked the Minister of Transport what action he is taking to implement the proposals of the Wilson Committee relating to the reduction of noise from motor vehicles.

As regards banning the use of horns, it has not yet been possible to obtain the views of the Departmental Road Safety Committee to which I am referring this matter.

Draft regulations giving effect to the other recommendations of the Wilson Committee for the reduction of noise from motor vehicles were circulated to interested organisations for comment on 17th June last.

:Has my right hon. Friend studied overseas experience in the banning of hooters? In view of the large number of smaller and noisier cars on the roads and coming on to the roads, is my right hon. Friend in full touch with the motor manufacturers on this problem?

:Yes. I have asked the Departmental Road Safety Committee to consider what has been done abroad in connection with the use of horns.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say how many committees are now in existence, the reports of which he is awaiting before he decides what to do about anything?

Order. I think that that is a little wide of the question of noise in connection with motor vehicles.