asked the President of the Board of Trade how many new jobs have been created in the Blaydon Employment Exchange area as a direct result of the operation of the Local Employment Act; and to what extent redundancies have been notified to Her Majesty's Government since June, 1958.

Some 400 new jobs are expected to be provided by projects in the Blaydon Employment Exchange area for which assistance has been offered under the Local Employment Acts. I cannot say how many of these have already arisen. In addition, the Board of Trade has decided to build an advance factory in the area which should provide another 100 jobs.

The Ministry of Labour has been notified of some 800 redundancies in the area since mid-1959. Records for the earlier period have not been retained.

Does not the Minister recognise that we are faced with a serious problem of depopulation as a result of redundancies and that the situation to be faced by school leavers is much worse than at any time since the end of the war? Cannot the right hon. Gentleman use his powers to see that the provisions of the Local Employment Act are brought fully into effect in order to assist more industries into the area especially when in that area so many jobs have disappeared completely?

I fully recognise the seriousness of the situation and that is why the locality was scheduled as a development district in July last year. That means that the area can have the full benefits of the Local Employment legislation.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if, owing to the lack of new industrial development in sight in the Barnard Castle area and the high level of unemployment, he will schedule as development districts the areas of the Barnard Castle Urban and Rural District Councils.

No, Sir. I am glad to say that the rate of unemployment in the Barnard Castle group of employment exchange areas was only 2·2 per cent. at the June count. But since I am not aware of any new industrial projects in prospect in the area I shall continue to keep a close watch on the position.

Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider this? Is he aware that at the height of the winter 25 per cent. of the males in Middleton-in-Teesdale were unemployed? How can he justify the artificial division between one part of my constituency and another when the economic facts of life of the constituency are precisely the same all over?

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will notice that during the Question Time period I shall be pressed by a number of hon. Members to increase facilities in their own localities where the position Is much worse. Obviously, if I were to increase the number of development districts I should not be able to help those in most need.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will build a new factory at Greenhill Industrial Estate, on the remainder of the site available, in view of the failure to induce other enterprises to build.

I do not accept the imputation of failure on the part of the Board of Trade to secure development of the Coatbridge estate. Three firms already have factories there and we shall be glad to consider building further factories for any suitable applicants.

Is the Minister aware that there is a remaining part of the site undeveloped and that both the town council and others interested, including his own Scottish controller, have done their very utmost to induce firms to erect a factory or factories on this part of the site? Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that, in this day, the fact that we have failed to build a factory proves conclusively that there is need for direct Government action to provide that factory in order to relieve the high unemployment rate in the district?

I would remind the hon. Gentleman that we are building two Board of Trade advance factories not far from Coatbridge. As regards the Coatbridge estate itself, we are building a new road which will open up sites for three more factories.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that travelling to work is all very well when it cannot be avoided, but where it is avoidable then, surely, it is the duty of the Minister to provide factories on the people's doorstep?

asked the President of the Board of Trade what plans he has for establishing a new industrial estate in North Lanarkshire; what sites are under construction; and what estimate he has made of the number of jobs involved.

I have nothing to add to the replies given to the hon. Member's Questions on 18th July and 10th May.

Is the Minister aware that a Sunday newspaper has already written a full story about a site selected by the Board of Trade for new industries which it is estimated will employ 12,000 people? Is is not unfair to Members of Parliament that this information should be available to the newspapers and not to hon. Members concerned? Will the right hon. Gentleman have another look at this matter and state where it is intended to build an industrial estate, and take into consideration the fact that it is well known in mid-Lanarkshire that different land proprietors are in the process of selling land for new development in North Lanarkshire?

I have not seen that newspaper report and I should be grateful if the hon. Member would let me know in what paper it appeared so that I may study it. I am anxious to inform hon. Members as soon as possible of details of proposals.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, why he will not accept a given rate of migration from any one area of the country as an indication of unemployment in that area, with a view to directing Government assistance towards it.

First, because I have no powers; and secondly, because first priority must go to the areas of high and persistent unemployment.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that migration is an indication of unemployment? Would it be possible for my right hon. Friend to establish how many areas would need to be included if a given rate of migration became a criterion for assistance under the Local Employment Act?

Naturally I shall try to help my hon. Friend with the provision of information. But as migration is not one of the factors which I am required to take into consideration, I do not feel that we should get very far by embarking on what would be a difficult and complicated exercise.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many jobs have been provided in the areas covered by the Wish wand Carluke Employment Exchanges since the passing of the Local Employment Act, 1960; and what proposals he has for the siting of an industrial estate in this area to provide work.

No jobs have yet been provided. I have no proposals for any new industrial estate in this area: our Larkhall estate is only a few miles away and developments there and at Shotts should provide a substantial increase in employment.

Surely the President of the Board of Trade must be perfectly well aware that in the Wishaw and Carluke areas there is a very high rate of unemployment? Surely he must also be aware that the jobs provided at the two small factories at Shotts and Larkhall will do no more than take up a small proportion of the unemployment in the areas? Does not he realise that his Answer proved how clear it is that the new industrial estate for Lanarkshire ought to go to this area or to the area about which my hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge and Airdrie (Mr. Dempsey) is concerned and not to where we understand it is to go?

I recognise the seriousness of the position outlined by the hon. Lady, but we must look at North Lanarkshire as a whole. We have done a great deal. Assistance totalling over £4 million has been offered to date for new projects estimated to provide 7,500 new jobs, but I fully accept that there is more to be done.

The right hon. Gentleman must be aware that the number of jobs provided merely replaces the number of jobs lost in the area. Does he realise that the Carluke area will be hard hit by the closure of another pit and that there is scarcely one mining job in the area today, and the Government have done nothing?

I am aware of that.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what machinery is at his disposal to attract industries to Scotland to use the strip steel produced at Colvilles, Gartcosh.

The facilities of the Local Employment Act are available to firms, including those using steel from the strip mill at Gartcosh, with suitable projects which will provide additional employment in the development districts. I have no special powers to give particular assistance to individual steel-using industries.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the area which is of interest to my hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge and Airdrie (Mr. Dempsey) and myself there is the cold-rolling part of a steel strip mill? Is not he aware that that would be an ideal place in which to site a new industrial estate, where the steel strip would be on the factory doorstep? Will he give further consideration to the siting of this industrial estate which I understand that we are to have?

I can assure the hon. Lady that I gave serious consideration to this matter. I do not think that it would necessarily follow that the industries most likely to come soonest to North Lanarkshire would be those which have exceptional uses for steel strip. At present there is sufficient steel strip capacity for the main using industries in their present locations.

Will the President take a rather more positive action than saying that the facilities are available? Did he not say some months ago that he was interviewing the heads of 600 firms? Has he invited some of them to take advantage of these facilities and come to this needy area?

Where appropriate I drew the attention of company chairmen to the facilities available here and elsewhere.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many applications he has received to establish industries in The Hartlepools; how many have been approved; and how many have been rejected.

Fourteen applications have been received for assistance towards the establishment of new projects or the expansion of existing firms in The Hartlepools. Seven have been approved, two rejected, one is in abeyance at the applicant's request, and four are under consideration.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for what assistance he has been able to give. Will he bear in mind that the loss of the Wylfa contract will leave an interregnum of unemployment in the next few months and will he do all that he can to hasten applications?

I am glad to give an assurance to my hon. and gallant Friend that I shall continue to do all I can for this hard-hit area.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what further measures he will take to reduce unemployment in The Hartlepools.

I shall continue to use my powers under the Local Employment Acts to encourage industrial development in The Hartlepools.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what proposals he has to arrest the projected decline of 5,000 workers in the Oldham area during the next 10 years.

I am not aware of any projected decline of 5,000 workers in the Oldham area during the next 10 years.

Surely the President is aware that there has been a decline of 61 per cent., 30,000 textile jobs, in Oldham since 1951—during the era of affluence? Is he aware that a mill is closing in two or three weeks and that 160 people are involved? Is he aware that the population of the town of Oldham has shrunk by about 30,000 people in the last 20 years and that another 10,000 drop in the population is expected over the next few years? Will he take seriously the argument which was put to the Prime Minister about the grey areas in Lancashire, of which this is one, and the fact that migration figures are not included in the unemployment figures before him?

I know that there is a severe decline in employment in the cotton industry in Oldham. But the fact is that most of the workers have been able to get jobs in other industries, so that now the unemployment figure is at 1·7 per cent. Oldham is favourably situated, particularly as there are about 1,300 new industrial jobs in prospect in non-textile industries in the Oldham group of employment exchanges.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what is the number of applications to the Board of Trade Advisory Committee since Blyth and Seaton Delaval were scheduled as development districts; how many have been granted; how many have been refused; and how many are still awaiting decisions.

Four applications have been received. Assistance has been recommended in one, one has been rejected and two are under consideration.

We welcome those figures to some extent. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that B.O.T.A.C. applications are a barometer of job availability in a given area? Will he look more closely at the position? Is he aware that we have been scheduled as a development district for close on two years and, while there are welcome signs of improvement regarding new jobs, these fail to keep pace with the decline in industry and that the unemployment figure is actually greater than at this time last year? Will the right hon. Gentleman look closely at this matter with a view to providing assistance?

Yes. I am looking very closely at all employment questions in the North-East and other development districts. However, I must allow firms to choose between one development district and another and help them to make the right selection in view of their particular labour requirements. Subject to those conditions I encourage industrialists to look at these localities in addition to some of the bigger cities.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware of the heavy unemployment which exists amongst the boys and girls registered at the Mexborough and Wombwell youth employment centres; and what his plans are to bring new industries into this area.

I am aware of the unemployment figures for boys and girls in Mexborough and Wombwell given by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour on 15th July. Subject to my overriding obligation to development districts, I am prepared to encourage suitable developments in the area.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take account of the summer school leavers—the hundreds of boys and girls who will be coming on to the labour market? Does not he realise that this district is in a coal mining area and that boys who are not physically fit to go into the mines have difficulty in getting jobs and may be unemployed? Is he aware that girls are having to travel to Bradford, Huddersfield, Doncaster and Sheffield from the Dearne Valley if they desire a job, and that something ought to be done for South Yorkshire as a whole?

We must accept that in modern conditions an increasing degree of travel to work may be necessary.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the long-term problem which is involved, that with growing automation in the coal mining industry the number of youngsters who go into the pits may be reduced, and that something ought to be done to keep pace with the growing automation which may exacerbate the problem?

Automation is only in its very early stages, and automation underground may lead to additional employment on the ground, because of the need to look after the automated equipment and deal with problems which may arise.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what steps he intends to take to inform unsuccessful applicants to the Board of Trade Advisory Committee of the reasons for refusal of their claims.

I fully support the practice of the Committee not to disclose the specific reasons which lead it to reject particular applications.

Is the President of the Board of Trade aware that it would be of considerable assistance to firms making applications to B.O.T.A.C. if there were more discussions with them as to the reasons why they are likely to be faced with refusal? I think that this piece of industrial assistance could be very well carried out by the President of the Board of Trade's Department. In many cases applicants are beginning to regard B.O.T.A.C. as a secret society from which they can get no information why applications are being turned down. This is a matter that requires the closest scrutiny and examination.

This is a matter which was referred to by the Select Committee on Estimates, and I should prefer to avoid giving a detailed explanation in answer to a Question in advance of the observations which I shall be sending to the Committee in due course.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how soon he will be making those observations?

I am not yet in a position to give an exact date.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is proposing any special measures to persuade or compel exporters of barley to this country not to ship excessive quantities in the months immediately following the home harvest.

We have drawn the attention of our principal overseas suppliers to the need to exercise restraint in the sale of cereals to the United Kingdom in the coming year to avoid depressing prices unduly. The Government will continue to watch the situation and keep in touch with our suppliers.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply. Is he aware that there are reports that barley, particularly French barley, is due to come here shortly at a very low price? While we are glad to have it, from some points of view, may I ask my right hon. Friend to balance the advantages against the fact that there is a grave danger of running up the deficiency payments to a high figure?

I have seen reports of French barley being offered at lower prices. We have made strong representations to the French Embassy and we are now awaiting its reply. In this matter we must remember that we have an important and useful export trade in barley, so we do not want to do anything which might have the effect of damaging that.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the very considerable switch that there has been from growing malting barleys to growing feeding barleys because of the increased yield, and will he do nothing that will make it impossible for the maltsters to import the barleys they need, even if it means going above the gentleman's agreement of 10 per cent.?

I shall certainly keep that point in mind, although without commitment today.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will make a statement on the number of firm commitments which have now been made by industrialists to expand in Scotland as a direct result of the Budget proposals.

Since the Budget the Board of Trade has received 136 applications for assistance under Sections 2, 3 and 4 of the Local Employment Act, 1960, and 54 preliminary applications for the new 10 per cent. grant on plant and machinery in respect of projects in Scotland. Over 90 per cent. of these are expansions by Scottish firms. I cannot say how many of these applications are firm commitments by the industrialists concerned.

Cannot the right hon. Gentleman be more specific? Is he aware that the situation is extremely serious in Scotland, which has still more than 90,000 unemployed of whom two-thirds have been unemployed for more than eight weeks? In other words, it is long-term unemployment, and the right hon. Gentleman should take this matter much more seriously and urgently than apparently he is doing.

I am taking it seriously and I am dealing with it urgently. If it had not been for the seriousness of the situation we should not have introduced the Local Employment Act, 1963, which represents an opportunity for helping all development districts, including Scotland, in a way not previously possible. While I am in no way complacent, I am pleased to be able to announce these figures today.

Is the right hon. Gentleman in a position to state in what particular areas these expansions have taken place, or will take place, with particular regard to north-east Scotland and more particular regard to the City of Aberdeen, where there is considerable unemployment?

I cannot give details about 136 applications without notice.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what estimate he has made of the extent to which the new measures announced in the Budget will provide more new jobs in Scotland than will be lost over the next three years.

None, Sir. The success of the Budget measures will depend on the momentum in the economy generally, on the amount of steerable industry, and on industrialists' choice of location as between development districts over the country as a whole.

Should not the right hon. Gentleman and the Government have some estimate of the kind of target they set and the number of new jobs that they are likely to expect, and have a right to expect, from the Measures which they have recently introduced, and set this against the number of jobs that are likely to be lost? Is he aware that 750 to 1,000 jobs were recently lost in the linoleum industry in Kirkcaldy and that according to my hon. Friend the Member for Dunbartonshire, East (Mr. Bence) jobs are being lost in the shipyards? Can the right hon. Gentleman give a specific undertaking that more jobs will be created as a result of the Government's policy than will be lost through the decline of industries?

The undertaking which I am prepared to give is that I shall do my utmost to steer steerable projects to the development districts, including Scotland.

How does the right hon. Gentleman explain the fact that after three years of the Government's Local Employment Act and all these new Measures there are now nearly twice as many people unemployed in Scotland as there were at this time of the year two years ago?

Because the run-down in some of the older industries has been more rapid than the development of new industries. The achievements over the last three years are very substantial, as the right hon. Gentleman knows from his visit to the new motor works in Scotland.

Surely the right hon. Gentleman ought to have some assessment of what has happened. How accurate can his assessment be in view of the fact that Denny of Dumbarton has just indicated that it is going into liquidation? Surely after all the deputations and letters received from Dumbarton he will bear Dunbartonshire in mind?

I am bearing Dumbarton in mind and I hope to visit Dumbarton before very long. [Interruption] If the hon. Gentleman who interrupted does, not want me to go to Dumbarton perhaps he will tell me so.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he has considered the request of L. S. Starrett and Company for a temporary remission of import duty on certain machine tools in order to enable them to develop a new plant at Jedburgh; and if he will make a statement.

I am not aware of any current application from this company relating to machine tools. But it has from time to time requested duty remission on measuring instruments and on parts imported for incorporation in its products. Under the Import Duties Act, 1958, remission can be given only if similar articles are not currently procurable in Britain. On the information so far supplied by the company, this condition has not been met but the company has been invited to discuss its problems further with my Department.

Is it not the case that a large American machine tool firm is anxious to develop on quite a big scale in Scotland? Surely the Board of Trade will be willing to show a little discretion and flexibility in trying to enable it to do so?

My duty is to administer the law fairly and impartially and not favour one type of firm at the expense of another. Incidentally, the parent company is located at Jedburgh which is not in a development district.

Within the law the President should do his best to encourage a scheme giving employment to an area of this kind.

I am very glad to explain to firms how the law is administered. Although we have hard cases occasionally, I think that industry recognises that the law is fairly administered and that most people are satisfied with it.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he has yet received the advice of the Tookey Committee on patents.

Yes, Sir. Following the receipt of the Committee's advice, we have now responded to the invitation to comment on the draft European Patent Convention. We have told the Brussels Commission and the Governments of the Six that if, as seems likely, the final form of the Convention is one to which we can subscribe, we shall wish to become a contracting country. I have placed a copy of the draft Convention and of our observations in the library.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the majority of British industry will welcome this? Can he say whether this applies to E.F.T.A. as well as Common Market countries?

The Convention has so far been drafted exclusively by officials of the Six, but it is not in terms confined to Common Market countries.

asked the President of the Board of Trade to what extent it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to encourage the import of iron ore from India into this country.

Imports of iron ore from India are free of duty and all other restrictions. The quantity imported is determined by commercial considerations and I should be happy to see it increased.

But as the Iron and Steel Federation largely has a monopoly of these iron ore imports and as India suffers from a great famine of foreign exchange and we presumably want to encourage Commonwealth trade, will not the President of the Board of Trade actively encourage the Federation and those responsible to buy from India more iron ore, which is of a high quality, than apparently it is now doing?

Having made the trade free, quite properly, in the interests of the British steel industry, I think that the industry should be left free to buy ore from the sources it thinks most suitable.

But as it is a monopoly buyer acting under the Iron and Steel Board, for which the Government are responsible, surely the right hon. Gentleman will not disclaim all responsibility for what happens?

What I am saying is that we have given it responsibility freely to choose from where it will get its ore. That is a sound policy, and the industry should be allowed to exercise its commercial judgment in a very important matter.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what are the reasons for the steady decrease of United Kingdom exports to Taiwan over the last three years, in view of the fact that Taiwan is becoming annually richer and increasing its trade with other European countries; what steps he is taking to remedy the situation; and what trade specialists are attached to the British Consulate in Taiwan.

While our exports to Formosa fell in 1961 and in 1962, they have increased this year to date by more than 30 per cent. over the corresponding period last year. Commercial work in Formosa is undertaken by H.M. Consul and his staff and the facilities they offer, together with the export services provided by my Department, are available to British firms engaged in trade with this market.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that Answer, but does not the fact remain that we are not pushing our trade with Taiwan where there are more than 12 million people, now extremely well off? Is this because the United States of America is trying to stop us from trading with Taiwan?

No. I am not aware of any approach by the United States Government to me about our trade with Formosa.

Would the right hon. Gentleman explain what are the political considerations given by the Government to trade with Formosa, bearing in mind the long-term need to encourage and develop trade with the People's Republic of China.

We wish to encourage trade with every country which is prepared to pay for the goods which we sell, and that goes for China and Formosa and India, too.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many advance factories are now under construction in the North-East when they will be completed; what inquiries are being made by industrial firms to occupy them; and what is the estimated number of workpeople they will employ.

During the past 12 months, 12 Board of Trade advance factories have been approved for the North-East. Seven of these are under construction and work is about to start on a further three. I expect that these 10 factories will be completed by the end of this year, and the remaining two in 1964. Tenants have already been found for two factories and a number of firms from outside the area have been shown the remaining factories or their sites. These 12 factories should provide more than 1,100 jobs.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that I accept his frequent assurance that he is doing his best to deal with the unemployment problem? But how does it come about that, in spite of the right hon. Gentleman doing his best, he fails to solve the unemployment problem? Will he explain that to me?

Perhaps my best is not good enough, but I will go on trying.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) might be encouraged if he read today's double page article on the North-East in the Daily Express and also if he took note of the public opinion poll in the Daily Mail and connected the two?

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain to me why his hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne, North (Mr. R. W. Elliott), who has just addressed a question to me in reply to what I said, should be so worried when he asks a question?

It is no part of the duty of the President of the Board of Trade to give explanations about the joy or gloom of his hon. Friends.

In view of the closing down of the Acklam steel works in Middlesbrough, will the right hon. Gentleman consider sending an advance factory to that town?

Not at the moment, because we want to see how tenants come along for the programme of advance factories under construction or about to be built, but we are watching very closely to see how rapidly they are taken up in order to decide if we should build further factories and, if so, where.

Further to the supplementary question of the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell), would my right hon. Friend inform the House that in a free society no Government of any kind can guarantee full employment all the time when 5 million jobs depend on exports?

asked the President of the Board of Trade what proposals the Consumer Council has for considering consumer difficulties in the standard and supply of school uniforms.

The Consumer Council is an independent grant-aided body. I suggest that the hon. Member might approach the Council direct.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that at least reputable manufacturers and traders and practical educationists are all agreed on the need for a national campaign on this continually irritating problem of highly priced poor quality school uniforms which is aggravated by the practice of many schools giving a monopoly of supplies to one particular shop? Since the Minister of Education has washed his hands of this subject, would the right hon. Gentleman use his influence to persuade the Consumer Council to put this subject on its priority list?

The Consumer Council is an independent body and it would be wrong for me to influence it in any direction. However, I am sure that the chairman will take note of the hon. Lady's supplementary question and the hon. Lady herself might care to supplement it direct in a letter to the chairman of the Council.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when he hopes to complete appointments to the Consumer Council? Is he aware—and I hope that he will correct me on this if I am wrong—that at the moment the Consumer Council does not have adequate offices in which to work?

Appointments to the Consumer Council have been completed and the last was announced a few days ago. The Council has office accommodation at present.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say, without giving any directions to the Consumer Council itself, whether it is within its competence to examine to what extent, if at all, arrangements exist between certain schools and certain traders as a result of which the parents of children who need new school uniforms have to pay through the nose?

A study of the standard and supply of school uniforms is certainly within the competence of the Council.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what considerations determine the scheduling of an area as a development district.

The considerations, laid down in the Local Employment Act, 1960, are that the Board of Trade should be satisfied that a high rate of unemployment exists, or is to be expected within such a period that it is expedient to exercise the powers of the Act, and that it is likely to persist.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman consider that the average wage level in the South-West, which is 25s. 6d. below the average level for England and Wales, is a consideration which should be taken into account, since new industry in the area would tend to force up wages? Does he not further admit the fact that the situation exists and that, as long as it exists, London will act as a magnet, particularly to young people, when there are so few opportunities of employment in the South-West?

Comparable wage levels are not one of the factors which I take into account in considering what localities should be designated as development districts.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that United Kingdom exports to South Africa have increased substantially this year so far compared with the corresponding part of 1962; and which industries, and which parts of the country, have chiefly benefited from this increase.

Yes, Sir. Exports have increased by £27 million or 46 per cent. in the first five months of 1963 compared with the corresponding period of 1962. With permission I will circulate a table in the Official Report which shows the industrial products chiefly contributing to this increase. It is not possible to estimate how this increase in exports has contributed to industrial production in different parts of the country.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that Answer. Is it not clear that it pays this country to continue to maintain our trade with South Africa, as with any other country with whose internal policies we may disagree?

It is most important that we should continue our commercial trade with South Africa, which benefits not only us but the whole population of South Africa.

Can the President of the Board of Trade say how much of the increase was due to the sale of arms?

No. The information in the table makes no reference to arms exports.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman's reply show—despite the imminence of the election of a Labour Government, as shown in this morning's Daily Express and Daily Mail—that the pledges that have been repeated by leading hon. Members on this side of the House that the next Government would not supply arms to South Africa has had no bad effect on our economic relationship with that country?

The hon. Member was not in the House in 1958 when his older hon. Friends were making exactly the same sort of remarks as he is making now. I do not accept the proposition in the second part of his supplementary question.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in deciding an application for industrial development certificate in the new town of Corby, he will now apply the same considerations as led him to authorise the trebling in size at an estimated cost of £750,000 of Stewart & Lloyds' plastic pipes works at Huntingdon; and what those considerations were.

Each application for an industrial development certificate is considered on its individual merits. The factors which led to the approval of the development by a subsidiary of Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. at Huntingdon may not be present in an application from this or any other company for a certificate to develop in Corby.

Can the right hon. Gentleman assure me that he will now apply the same considerations in Corby as he has apparently applied in Huntingdon, bearing in mind that he recently refused to do so?

Huntingdon is an overspill reception area for surplus population from London, which makes it somewhat different from Corby.

May I assure my right hon. Friend that the decision he made in regard to Huntingdon has enured to the great benefit of the place and is much appreciated?

I am grateful to find that one of my decisions has met with approval.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the considerations applying to an overspill town apply with even more force to new towns, where fresh populations are continually being brought in and where there is a crying demand for more employment to be established, especially for women and young people?

asked the President of the Board of Trade when he now expects to be able to reach a decision about the support that his Department will give to the erection of a national industrial exhibition centre on the Crystal Palace site.

When I have had an opportunity to consider whatever conclusions may be reached by the industrial interests concerned on how to make their capital contribution to the cost of the project.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether it is probable that a decision on this most important scheme will be reached before the end of the year?

It is not possible for me to give an answer to that question because discussions are continuing between the Federation of British Industries and the London County Council. I cannot, therefore, say how long those discussions will take.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what steps he is taking to implement the recommendation of the Feilden Committee on Engineering Design to collect and publish information on the income and expenditure incurred under licence agreements between British and foreign firms, so that the value of this trade can be assessed.

I am at present considering this recommendation.

In view of what the Feilden Committee had to say about this in relation to exports and research, will the matter be urgently considered?

Most certainly.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what action he proposes to take against a firm, whose name has been given to him, which has been selling knitting machines in the Newcastle-upon-Tyne area, and which has misrepresented its terms in order to sell its knitting machines.

I am having a careful investigation made of the facts relating to these sales. I understand that the Company Fraud Department of Scotland Yard is also investigating the activities of the company. I will write to my hon. Friend as soon as these investigations are complete.

Would it help my right hon. Friend if I sent him details from Newcastle about this firm, Sure Distributors Ltd., which has closed its Newcastle offices and has "scarpered" to Manchester? Would this help to prevent this firm causing damage there?

My hon. Friend has been kind enough to send me an advertisement. I will be glad to receive any additional information he may make available to me.

Does not this case show that the Consumer Council should have power to take action in cases like this, in view of the natural reluctance of Government Departments to seek prosecutions in such matters?

I think that a case of this sort is quite properly being investigated by the Company Fraud Department of Scotland Yard, which is the proper body to do it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have already submitted to him the names of two individuals who are being subjected to the fraud of this firm of Sure Distributors Ltd.? Will he investigate this matter to ensure that Scotland Yard's fraud squad gives close consideration to whether there can be prosecution in respect of unsavoury practices of the sort adopted by this firm?

I will be glad to receive any further details in addition to those the hon. Member has sent to me. I hope that I will be allowed full discretion as to the use I may make of the information.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what assistance he will give to any firm in this country or from overseas to take advantage of the offer of the displaced Ford workers at Doncaster to put their redundancy pay into promoting a new industry in the factory building which is to be closed down.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware of the plan by the displaced Ford workers at Doncaster to invest their redundancy pay in a new industry there; and what assistance he is giving in finding a tenant for the factory.

I am aware of this proposal put forward by Ford workers in Doncaster. I understand, however, that no decision has yet been reached as to the future of this privately-owned factory.

Will the President of the Board of Trade take more seriously the offer made by the Ford workers? It is a unique offer, and further proves that the men employed at this factory are of such quality that we should make certain that there is work for them in this plant. They have not had a strike there for 22 years. Is he further aware that relations between management and men are of the best? Will not he, therefore, do more than he has said he will do to ensure a continuation of work at this plant in Doncaster and in future not take work from Doncaster to other parts of the country, so robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Unemployment in Doncaster is about at the level of the national average. I must continue to give first priority to the development districts, as the hon. Gentleman must have noticed from the Questions tabled by his hon. Friends earlier in the afternoon. I have every sympathy with what the hon. Gentleman has said about the quality of the men and the management. I admire the action of the men in handling their severance payments in the way that has been announced, but this is a privately-owned factory and it is for the owners of the factory to make the necessary arrangements.

asked the Prime Minister if he will issue an instruction that in future the provision of premises for the National Health Executive Councils should be the responsibility of the Minister of Public Building and Works.

I see no present reason to alter the existing arrangements.

Will the right hon. Gentleman look at this matter again? Is he aware that a new Crown building is planned for Dumbarton? Would it not be sensible for the National Health Executive Council, which also requires new premises, to be accommodated in the new Crown building, and so avoid the duplication of conference rooms and other common services, since the capital and running costs must all come from the same public purse?

I think that there are already in existence arrangements whereby the Minister of Public Building and Works uses his good offices to help the Executive Councils to get suitable accommodation, but I will bear in mind what the hon. Member has said and I will go into the matter further.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will take steps to enable the House in future to discuss the reports of the Ecclesiastical Committee on Measures presented by the Church Assembly for its consideration, so that hon. Members may have the opportunity of expressing their opinions before being presented with a completed Measure which they have the option of approving or rejecting but not of amending.

No, Sir. I do not think it would be right for the Government to take an initiative of this kind.

While realising the difficulties of my right hon. Friend in this connection, because of the tradition of leaving the discussion of these matters to the Church Assembly, may I ask whether he realises how many hon. Members on both sides of the House do not wish to come to a real disagreement with the Church Assembly merely by being presented with a fait accompli which they cannot do anything but either accept or refuse?

This is inherent in the system under which we operate, and I do not think it would be wise for the Government to intervene.

In view of the possibility of ill feeling growing between the Church of England and this House if major proposals are made that we are unable in any way to amend, could not the Prime Minister make representations to the effect that when major reforms are initiated which are likely to be controversial, some informal consultation between this House and the Church could be established?

That is a rather different matter. Informal consultation is one thing but I am asked for a Government alteration of a system which has been operating for some years, on the whole I think successfully.

asked the Prune Minister whether he will make a statement on the recent negotiations in Moscow on a nuclear test ban treaty.

I am not yet in a position to make any statement.

Can the Prime Minister give any indication when he expects to be in a position to do so?

No, Sir. I am not quite sure. These negotiations are proceeding. As the right hon. and learned Gentleman will realise, they are to some extent made rather difficult by the great spread of time between the countries concerned—two hours and five hours, resulting in a seven or eight hour spread; with summer time, it is only two hours—and with the movement of telegrams backwards and forwards. That, I think, is the chief reason for the delay.

If agreement is reached in Moscow today would it be possible for my right hon. Friend to make a statement in the House before we rise tonight?

I will consider that.

When the Prime Minister comes to make his statement, would he give the House and the country a categorical assurance that in his anxiety, which we all share, to further the cause of peace, he is taking fully into account the long-term defence needs of this country and the Western Alliance?

Yes, Sir.

Will the Prime Minister assure hon. Members that he will make no statement elsewhere before he reports to the House?

I think that these things are not yet absolutely settled. There will have to be a communiqué issued in Moscow. The timing of that has to be fixed to meet the needs of all three countries. It is a matter for some care, but I hope that it will be such as to suit our convenience as well as that of the other countries.

I am sure that the Prime Minister is aware that the whole House—hon. Members of all parties—are hoping for a quick and successful outcome. May I raise one procedural point with him which may be helpful at this stage? Is he aware that under the Ponsonby Rules there might be certain difficulties about the signature and ratification owing to the fact that the House will not be sitting much longer? Would the right hon. Gentleman take it, at any rate from my hon. Friends—and I am sure that this applies to hon. Members of all parties—that we would not want any procedural difficulty to stand in the way of a quick signature and ratification?

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for what he has said.

asked the Prime Minister what steps he is taking to co-ordinate the activities of the Minister of Power and the Lord Privy Seal in the necessary preliminaries to the preparation and introduction of legislation to enable the 1958 Geneva Convention of the Seaconcerning mineral exploration and exploitation on Continental Shelf areas to be ratified.

I am satisfied that the Ministers concerned are in close consultation and agreement.

Is it accepted that both oil and methane scientists are worried lest their activities in the North Sea may be hampered by want of non-controversial legislation?

If there were an agreement, there would, of course, have to be legislation to deal with some of the things to do with prohibitions and obligations contained in the Convention in order to make them part of the law of this country. In addition, there would have to be an administra- tive framework for exploration and exploitation, which would have to be given a statutory basis.

asked the Prime Minister what recent representations he has received concerning Government policy for the jute industry; and what reply he has made.

I was informed of the views held by the industry at an early stage of its discussions with the Board of Trade. I was able to reply that the progress of the negotiations would remove any grounds for the industry to fear that those would, for the next year at least, be any decline in the measure of protection for the vast bulk of the goods it produces.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the proposals put forward threaten thousands of jobs in this industry; and that he himself has caused grave confusion and uncertainty by making a statement on this matter to his hon. Friend the Member for South Angus (Sir J. Duncan) which was quite different from what the Minister of State, Board of Trade was at the same time saying confidentially to the industry in Dundee? Will he therefore give an assurance that the Government will not take any action to make any changes in the present structure of protection in the industry until there has been a full-scale inquiry into the industry?

There are two points there. I do not think that there was anything inconsistent between what I said and the plan being discussed. As to a full inquiry, consultations are going on on this very point.

As this gratuitous intervention by the Board of Trade may, in the opinion of those best informed in Dundee, threaten the city with the worst unemployment crisis for 20 years, will not the Prime Minister, if he wants the Government's policy on Scotland to be taken seriously, now invite the Board of Trade to abandon these proposals, and reconsider the whole matter?

I think that by far the best thing is for the consultations and discussions that are now going on to proceed.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman give more thought to this subject, as it is so serious as to merit reconsideration and withdrawal of the existing proposals? Will he look at the report in Hansard of the debate that took place at about three o'clock this morning, and pay some attention to the speech delivered by the vice-chairman of the Unionist and Conservative Party in Scotland, which expressed very considerable concern and distress at the wayward policies of the Government in respect of Dundee and jute?

I have looked at that and, in fact, these consultations are going on, and I think it better to leave it there for the moment.

asked the Prime Minister if he will set up an inter-Departmental inquiry into means of improving co-ordination on matters of Government economic policy between the Scottish Office, the Board of Trade and his own office.

No. Sir.

Does not the Prime Minister think that it is thoroughly undesirable that the practice should grow up of garbled statements on Government policies coming from his office which are different from what has been said at the same time by his own Departmental Ministers in confidential negotiations? In view of the muddle there is here, will the right hon. Gentleman set up an inquiry to make sure that his office is in line with his own Departments?

There is no inconsistency between my statement and what was going on.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consult President Kennedy with a view to co-ordinating Anglo-American policy on the export of arms to South Africa.

Her Majesty's Government are naturally in close touch with the United States Government on all the issues raised by the forthcoming discussion in the Security Council on apartheid.

Is it not a fact that the United States Government believe that the time has now come to impose, through the United Nations, an embargo on the export of arms to South Africa? Since the United Kingdom is the head and centre of a multi-racial Commonwealth, and since certain members of the Commonwealth, such as Mr. Nyerere, the President of Tanganyika, are pressing our Government to support such an embargo, will the Prime Minister give a guarantee that our delegate in the Security Council will, in the next few days, vote for an embargo on the export of arms to South Africa?

No, Sir. What we have first to do is to see the resolution, and we have not seen the draft of it yet.

Will my right hon. Friend also consult Mr. Khrushchev with a view to co-ordinating Anglo-Russian policy on the export of arms to Cuba?

The more all these things are co-ordinated the better.

The Question relates to South Africa—[Interruption.]—we could always have a Question on Cuba. Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether, in the matter of the present controls on exports to South Africa, Her Majesty's Government are working entirely on the same basis of control as the United States? Secondly, will he tell us what representations he has had from heads of Commonwealth Governments on this question?

Neither of those supplementary questions arises from the Question on the Order Paper, which asks whether we will consult President Kennedy on co-ordinating Anglo-American policy. That is what we are doing.

Since the Question asks whether the Prime Minister will consult President Kennedy with a view to co-ordinating Anglo-American policy, does not the Prime Minister think it relevant to ask him whether our policy is the same as that of America on the control of the export of arms to South Africa; and will he now answer the Question?

No, Sir. We are asked to co-ordinate our future policy.

asked the Prime Minister if he will arrange for the chief scientist or chief engineer in civil Departments to be put on the same level as the chief scientist in the Ministry of Defence in the machinery for tendering advice to Ministers.

No, Sir. The levels of these posts reflect the relationship between their responsibilities and those of the Permanent Secretaries at the head of the Departments.

Does not the Prime Minister think that the time has now come when, in matters involving scientific and technological considerations, no policy decision should be taken by Ministers without the direct consideration and advice of the chief scientists and engineers, in exactly the same way as is to be arranged by the Ministry of Defence?

I think that the rôle of the chief scientists in the civil Departments is well understood, and I do not think that there is any difficulty in operating it.

asked the Prime Minister if he is prepared to take the initiative in Europe to establish a non-aggression pact between the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation and Warsaw Pact Powers.

I would refer the hon. Member to what I told the House on 9th July.

While both sides of the House appreciate what the right hon. Gentleman said on 9th July, may I ask him whether he is aware that all hon. Members may soon be able to congratu- late him and those in the other nations who have co-operated in getting what we hope will be a nuclear test ban? Is the right hon. Gentleman therefore aware that we believe that some initiative should be taken by Britain, because we are sure that he wants peace as much as anyone else in the world? Would he therefore ask for a nuclear-free zone, and try to call the Warsaw Pact Powers and the N.A.T.O. Powers together in an initial talk?