asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the constitutional conference on Malta.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is arranging for new elections in Malta before that country proceeds to independence

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what conclusions were reached as a result of the consultations he had recently with representatives of the Government and of the Opposition of Malta

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement about his discussions with the Maltese political parties

The talks which my right hon. Friend held last week with the leaders of the political parties of Malta showed that they were unable to resolve their differences on the independence constitution. My right hon. Friend urged them to make a further effort to agree upon some suitable procedure by which the Maltese people could be given the opportunity of stating their opinion; and he asked the Opposition leaders to give careful thought to a proposal by Dr. Borg Olivier for a referendum to be held on the main questions in dispute, which are: what form Malta's future constitution should take and whether new elections should be held before independence. This they undertook to do.

With permission I will include in the Official Report the text of my right hon. Friend's announcement at the conclusion of the talks and of Dr. Borg Olivier's letter offering a referendum.

While thanking the Minister for that detailed reply, may I ask whether he realises that the Government's failure to achieve success in the talks that have taken place is very bad, not only for the British Commonwealth and for Malta but for all the peoples concerned? Will he try to take more constructive and effective steps to achieve success, in the interests of the British Commonwealth and the Maltese people?

If I may say so, the hon. and learned Gentleman is being a little hard. One cannot force people to agree if they do not wish to agree. We hope that this matter will be referred to the Maltese people for their decision.

If there is not general agreement with the proposals, and the Maltese Prime Minister and the opposing parties wish to go forward for new elections, will that find agreement with the Secretary of State?

Dr. Borg Olivier's proposals are for a referendum in which the people will be asked to decide between his form of constitution and Mr. Mintoff's form of constitution. If all the parties agree to a referendum, that is the way the matter will be decided, but, if they do not agree, my right hon. Friend will have to decide, and this is the last thing he would want to do.

As Malta is not viable, and is unlikely to be viable for some years, is it not very unfair to discuss a constitution for the date of independence until talks have been held on long-term financial aid from Britain to Malta: and when will those talks take place?

We are ready for financial talks whenever Malta is. Our view is that Malta should not be less generously treated as a result of independence than she has been hitherto.

What is the urgency for pressing independence on a reluctant Malta?

The two major parties both said they wanted independence, and both made it part of their policies at the General Election in 1962.

Is not a referendum likely to cause confusion in the minds of the people of Malta? Would it not be better to have a General Election?

I always thought that a referendum was a very democratic method, of deciding what people wanted.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why permission was refused to David Joubert, President of the Seychelles Government Workers' Union and employed in the Accountant General's Department of the Seychelles, to attend either on unpaid or paid leave a course at the College of the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions at Kampala; and what official salary was earned by Joubert at the time of his request

It was not possible to release Mr. Joubert to attend this course when he applied for leave in September because his department at that time was short staffed. At the time of his request his salary was £234 a year.

Is it seriously being suggested that a man who has such a derisory salary, even by the miserable standards in the Seychelles, could not be spared from the department? Is it not appreciated that in an island such as this, where there is considerable exploitation and a great number of problems, it is most desirable that there should be responsible training and leadership? Is it not also appreciated that the course of the kind provided was the sort of thing which would have helped in this respect? Could not the hon. Gentleman consider whether, now that the man goes back, he should be reinstated in his position and given the salary which he has lost as the result of taking this responsible course?

In a small territory like the Seychelles civil servants cannot expect to be allowed to take leave whenever they wish to do so. I hope that the hon. Member will not mind my saying that in my view the primary purpose of a job is to do it and not to use it as a laboratory to learn about trade unionism. [Hon. Members: "Oh."] Yes, I think so. There is no vacancy for Mr. Joubert as a trade union expert, because the post is already filled by someone better qualified. His reinstatement is a matter for the local Government.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Mr. Joubert is a most responsible person? When I visited the Seychelles I formed the opinion that the best thing that could happen to the Seychelles was that training should be given for responsible trade union leaders of his type. Is the hon. Gentleman further aware that there is a feudal atmosphere there which is a disgrace to this House? Will he not look again at the question of the principle of trade unionists attending conferences?

There is nothing against Mr. Joubet, but there was no possibility of his being employed on his return there on trade union matters because, as I have said, another Seychellois with considerable training in trade union affairs is already employed in the Civil Service in that capacity.

Is it not important that public servants in the public service should be given training and experience of responsible trade unionism? Is not that in the interests of the Seychelles? Will not the hon. Gentleman look at this matter again?

That is very important, but it is also important that the administration of the Seychelles should go on.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of the present great increase in population in the Seychelles, and the grants paid to this island by the United Kingdom, he will withdraw the present directive by the medical services of the Seychelles prohibiting instruction of birth control techniques involving contraceptives

The directive was issued after it had become clear that instruction by a Government medical officer in birth control techniques involving contraceptives was widely criticised in Seychelles on religious grounds. I am studying the problem further.

Is it appreciated that in this island the rate of illegitimacy last year was 44 per cent.? Would it therefore be noted that it seems highly improbable that there is a large section of the population of the Seychelles who would object on religious grounds? Whatever the views of the Swiss order of priests over there, if there are—as I gathered clearly from my visit—a considerable number of people who want such instruction, will the hon. Gentleman look at this matter again? Will he see that there is freedom for all people, irrespective of their religion, to have what they have a right to have and what the taxpayer in this country, who pays grants in aid for this Colony, has a right to see they get?

I am personally inclined to agree with the hon. Member that in a territory where there is unemployment and over-population family planning or migration are the only alternatives, but we must bear in mind that 90 per cent. of the people there are Roman Catholics and we must take account of public opinion, whether we agree with it or not.

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that there is a good deal of religious objection to contraception in this country but we do not allow that to be imposed upon those who wish to practise contraception? In the circumstances, could the hon. Gentleman make it clear to the Government of the Seychelles and to the hospital authorities there that, while no one is compelled to employ contraceptives, those who wish to do so should be at liberty to do so?

I am inclined to agree, but of course our population is not 90 per cent. Roman Catholic. It is probably the other way about. There are therefore special circumstances, but I am sympathetic and I am asking the Governor to look at the matter again.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many roof top dwellers there were in Hong Kong at the latest convenient date

It is estimated that there were about 80,000 in October this year.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in 1956 when I was in Hong Kong the number of roof-top dwellers was 40,000. Is not that increase scandalous? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the number has doubled in seven years instead of decreasing, as many of us expected? Is he further aware that one of the major caues in retarding housing development in Hong Kong is the absolutely fantastic price of land? Would not the hon. Gentleman try to get the Hong Kong Government to establish some fair system for the regulation of the price of land to help housing development in the island?

I do not think that this is a scandal at all. One must remember that the population of Hong Kong, in an extremely small area, amounts to over 3½ million. Over 1 million Chinese have entered the Colony since the war and more than ½ million have been re-housed in resettlement and low-cost housing estates paid for by the Hong Kong Government in that time. Present plans provide for the housing of 100,000 squatters a year. I think that this is a jolly good record.

I am perfectly familiar with those figures and I pay respect to what has been done, but is the hon. Gentleman aware that what has been done bears no comparison with what ought to be done? May I ask the hon. Gentleman to look at this problem and at the fantastic prices imposed upon those who want to start public enterprise development in Hong Kong? Could not the hon. Gentleman think of introducing a fairer system?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what is the maximum percentage rate of income tax payable in Hong Kong

The maximum rate is 25 per cent, on personal incomes, subject to a provision that the tax charged shall not exceed 12½ per cent. of total assessable income without the deduction of allowances.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when married women Government servants in Hong Kong will be given equal pay

As the hon. Member is aware, I have asked the Governor to examine further the question of the differences in pay between single and married women Government servants. I am sure that he will do this as quickly as possible.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that while income tax stands at such a derisory level in Hong Kong neither married women Government civil servants, roof-top dwellers, nor any other of the needy people there can be persuaded that there is not the money available to meet their needs? Will the hon. Gentleman take a firmer line with the Hong Kong Government in meeting their responsibilities?

I sense a difference of approach in this matter. Unlike hon. Members opposite, I think that it is a rather good idea for Governments to have low taxation instead of high taxation. It is not only a question of money. An assessment of priorities must be made. Hong Kong is relatively rich, but no country, however rich, can meet every demand at one and the same time, and housing and schools may have greater priority than Civil Service pay.

How do they pay for housing or anything else at this derisory level of taxation?

As I am sure the hon. and learned Member well knows, there are special reasons why it is important for Hong Kong to attract investment and enterprise. As the leading trading centre in that part of the world it must attract and retain capital from outside, and therefore I think that the Government's tax ratio is geared to the particular requirements in Hong Kong.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when the annual reports on Bechuanaland for 1961 and 1962 will be published; and if he will ensure the prompt production and publication of such annual reports in future

A report covering the two years 1961 and 1962 should be ready for publication early next year. Arrangements for the preparation of Bechuanaland reports are being overhauled to ensure much earlier publication in future.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that not only in Bechuanaland but in many other territories there is great delay in producing these reports? Is this under review as well?

Yes, it is indeed. I am sorry about this. I have looked into it very carefully. It is hoped that in the future the reports for each year will be available in the Library not more than six months after the end of that year.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what plan has been drawn up for the development of education in the British Solomon Islands; what is the estimated cost; and what action is being taken

The plan aims to provide 420 places in secondary schools and 4,620 places in designated primary schools. The capital cost is about £780,000 plus a further £260,000 which will be met by the churches and local authorities. The recurrent cast to Government in a full year's working will be about £140,000. I am glad to say that all the churches, to which We are greatly indebted for the development of education in the territory, welcome the plan and all but one of them are prepared to participate in it.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied that this plan in adequate? In the last figures which were available in 1960, there was a plan which took up £100,000, and this is a considerable improvement, but is my hon. Friend really satisfied that out of a budget of about £1·7 million enough is being spent on education?

There will be a high priority for education in this next planning period. As to the total amount of money, we must bear in mind that the Territory is grant-aided to the extent of half its budget. In the last CD. & W. period, £239,000 per annum went to the Solomon Islands and in the next the total will be £453,000 per annum. This is a big improvement—it is about double—and expenditure on education will reflect it.

Are there any proposals in the education plan for teaching family planning, and what would Solomon have thought of it?

That has not yet arisen in the Solomon Islands.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps have been taken in Fiji to implement the recommendations of the Burns Report on family planning

The Government of Fiji have established a network of family planning clinics and advice is now available at over 50 rural hospitals, as compared with only five when the Burns Report was written. Two delegates went to the Seventh International Planned Parenthood Conference in Singapore this year. A Family Planning Association has been formed and, with Government assistance, this will supply family planning material and propaganda.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the number of attendances at family planning clinics in Fiji has remained virtually static during the past four years? In view of the importance of this matter in an island such as Fiji, does not my hon. Friend feel that an important programme of attack should be undertaken to deal with the problem?

I agree with my hon. Friend. We are implementing the Burns Report, and recently the Executive Council decided on a big increase in the amount of publicity devoted to this objective.

Is the Minister aware that an international family planning campaign was recently launched by the Family Planning Association and the International Planned Parenthood Campaign? Is it not incumbent upon Her Majesty's Government to give the maximum co-operation to this campaign not only in Fiji but throughout the Commonwealth?

I agree with that, and I note what the hon. Gentleman says.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is aware that arbitrary deportations are contrary to the Charter of Human Rights, to which Her Majesty's Government subscribes; and what was the number of trade unionists deported from Aden following the recent dispute at the Aden base

I am aware of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I am not aware that any persons have been deported from Aden in circum- stances which contravene the provisions of that Declaration. The answer to the second part of the Question is 67.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many of the 67 trade unionists deported were born and bred in Aden, they have never left the Colony before in their lives, and their wives and families have been left in Aden to fend for themselves? Is not this a clear violation of Article 9 of the Declaration of Human Rights? Is he aware, also, that a British trade unionist, who is also a justice of the peace, was refused permission to go to Aden to help these trade unionists to settle their problems? Should not something be done to end the industrial turmoil in Aden?

I will look into the point which the hon. Gentleman raises about that individual. On the wider question, he is misinformed. Nobody who was born in Aden or even whose father was born in Aden has been deported. Of the 67 people deported, 63 were Yemeni, migrant workers from the Yemen, and 4 were from the Protectorate of South Arabia.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many of the Aden trade unionists seem to be motivated not by a desire to improve the conditions of their members but by questions of international politics? Can he tell us how many strikes have been fomented there during the last 12 months?

I think that my hon. Friend is broadly right, but I do not know the number of strikes. I will look into it and let him know.

Is the Minister aware that the trade union movement in Aden is affiliated to the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions and is one of the best trade union movements in the Arab world? Is he further aware that, so far as it has a legitimate interest in politics, its resentments could be greatly eased by more vigorous action by Her Majesty's Government?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what recommendations he has received for a revision of the franchise in Aden; and if the next elections will be held on the basis of the present franchise or of a revised one

These matters are still being considered by the Aden Government.

Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that there has been a quite inexcusable delay in this matter of franchise and elections in Aden which is leading to a sense of frustration in Aden and suspicion about Her Majesty's Government's intentions? Does the hon. Gentleman recall saying in this House on 26th February that elections were due this year and that there would be no question of delay? What is he doing to make sure that elections are held as soon as possible and on as wide a franchise as possible? There will be trouble if this is not done.

There is nothing sinister about this. The Commission of Inquiry established by the Chief Minister of Aden last August completed its report at the end of October and its recommendations are now under consideration by the Aden Council of Ministers.

As to the date of the elections, these must be held, as the hon. Member knows perfectly well, within three months of the dissolution of the Legislative Council, which is due in January, 1964. Therefore, the elections must be held by April, 1964. We have no intention of introducing an Order in Council to postpone them, so they will take place during that period.

Does the hon. Gentleman recall that on 26th February, in answer to me, he gave an undertaking that elections would take place this year? Is he now saying that this pledge is to be broken?

No. There was possibly a misunderstanding. What I meant to say—and if the hon. Gentleman looks up the position in Aden he will see that this is correct—was that the present Legislative Council has to be dissolved in January, 1964, and that elections have to be held within three months thereafter. Therefore, what we are doing conforms entirely with the Constitution.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what action has been taken to bring to justice the murderer or murderers of Village Headman Nandumbo, of the Kasupe District of Nyasaland

The Director of Public Prosecutions in Nyasaland has instructed that five Africans be charged with the murder of Village Headman Nandumbo. A preliminary inquiry is at present being held before the Resident Magistrate, Zomba, and the case is therefore sub judice.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this man was beaten to death last June, that his relatives were intimidated into burying his remains in secret, and that it was not until August that the police ordered that his body be exhumed, when it was found that his skull had been fractured and two ribs had been broken, one of which had pierced his heart? Have not the authorities been very lax in getting on with the matter?

The case was reported to the Director of Public Prosecutions in Nyasaland on 9th September. Before authorising a prosecution, the Director required further statements from witnesses. Some time elapsed before the witnesses could be seen. There was inevitably, therefore, a delay before the Director of Public Prosecutions could institute proceedings in the middle of November.

Will my hon. Friend confirm that law and order in Nyasaland on the whole reaches a high standard and that a though, as in any country, it is possible to pinpoint disasters and criminal occurrences, it is most unfair to draw any deductions harmful to the reputation of Nyasaland?

A number of complaints have been made recently about law and order in Nyasaland. These have been very carefully investigated and a report has been published by the Deputy Governor's office. Copies of the report have been placed in the Library. The report shows that many of the complaints have been greatly exaggerated and that considerable improvements have been made in the administration of law and order. It is, I am sure, the determined wish of the Nyasaland Government, no less than of ourselves, that justice should be properly administered there.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is aware that citizens of Nyasaland are still being detained and ill treated when found not to possess Malawi Congress Party membership cards; by what authority this is being done; and what action the police are taking to preserve law and order

Isolated incidents of illegal detention or ill treatment of Africans have occurred in one district only during the past month. These actions have not had the backing of the party leaders. The Prime Minister, Dr. Banda, has constantly reiterated that they must cease. It is not a legal offence, as has sometimes been suggested, to be found to be without a Malawi Congress Party membership card. The police thoroughly investigate all complaints of this nature which are reported to them; and, when sufficient evidence is available, those accused are prosecuted.

I welcome the news that the party leaders do not countenance this sort of behaviour, but is my hon. Friend aware that the Malawi League of Youth has been responsible for a number of beatings-up in various districts prior to the month he mentions and, in particular, for the death of the person referred to in my Question No. 14. What is being done to stop the League of Youth from behaving in this way? Secondly, has the Attorney-General yet withdrawn his instruction to the police that they are not to institute proceedings for violence or intimidation without his personal permission?

In reply to my hon. Friend's question about what is being done, I do not think that one can deal with the matter in general terms. I shall gladly have investigated any specific cases which my hon. Friend cares to bring to my attention. His point about the Attorney-General is another matter. If my hon. Friend will put down a Question, I shall gladly deal with it. Strenuous efforts have been made to deal with and overcome some of the teething troubles which emerged as the result of the reorganisation of the local courts in Nyasaland, and very great progress in that respect has been made.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement about the compensation terms offered to British ex-Service men who went to Kenya under the auspices of the European Agricultural Settlement Board.

In the Second Reading debate on the Kenya Independence Bill. my right hon. Friend said that he had carefully studied the case of the British ex-Service men who went to Kenya under the auspices of the European Agricultural Settlement Board; but he was not convinced that it would be fair to single them out for special treatment more favourable than for the rest of the European farming community. He said that about one-third of the Settlement Board farmers could expect to be bought out under the existing land schemes and that many others might be helped under the measures which he then announced.

Have not the Government a special obligation to these British ex-Service men who were encouraged to go to Kenya under the auspices of this scheme? Can we be assured that the Government are devoting the most sympathetic consideration to giving financial compensation to any of these ex-Service men who have to vacate their farms?

I am very sympathetic in this matter, but all these people went of their own accord and I think that it would be invidious to give any one category special treatment. There is no legal case against the Kenya Government. On the moral question, I think that our obligation extends equally to all European farmers out there. On the right hon. and learned Gentleman's last point, I must honestly say that this is not intended to be a compensation scheme. It is intended to help Europeans if we possibly can, but it is an African land settlement scheme, not a compensation scheme for farmers.

Surely the hon. Gentleman would agree that the Government of the day did not encourage civilians in the same way as they encouraged ex-Service men who served their country during the war to go to Kenya?

I think that encouragement was given and that there is a moral obligation on us to help. We are trying to help, but I do not think there is any legal obligation. No guarantees were given, or anything of that sort, against hazards which might arise. I must ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman to bear in mind that the implications of a compensation scheme as such would be very wide and would go far beyond the confines of Kenya.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what provision is being made for the extension of the work of the Settlement Board in Kenya after the Colony becomes an independent member of the Commonwealth; and to what extent the United Kingdom Government will continue to be responsible for the appointment of the Settlement Board and the finance of its operations

The European Agricultural Settlement Trust was established under local legislation. The British Government have no responsibility for the appointment of the trustees nor for the financing of its operations.

Is not this the body which is looking after the settlement of the 1 million acres and any further land which, we understand, is now to be allocated for resettlement? If not, has the body been renamed? Can my hon. Friend tell us about the future of this body, which the Government are financing?

I think that the body referred to by my hon. Friend in his Question is the European Settlement Board which was discussed earlier, arising from the Question asked earlier today by the right hon. and learned Member for Rowley Regis and Tipton (Mr. A. Henderson).

asked the Secretary of Stat; for the Colonies the result of his inquiries into the reasons for the ban on entry into Kenya of the hon. Member for Torquay (Mr. F. M. Bennett) to attend the independence celebrations

The Governor has reported that the Kenya Government adhere to their earlier decision.

To clear up one of the uncertainties of this case, may I ask my hon. Friend to give the date on which, without reason, this ban, which has been so strongly deplored on both sides of the House, was imposed?

I do not have in mind the exact date of the ban, but I will look it up and inform my hon. Friend as soon as possible.

Since this decision affects a Member of this honourable House, may I ask whether it is not a pity that wherever the Union Jack is pulled down personal liberty seems to be restricted?

The views expressed by hon. Members, and the views of my right hon. Friend, have, of course, been conveyed to the Kenya Government. Our position is quite clear, but I do not think that there is anything else that we can do at this stage.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that he should use his high office to try to bring tolerance to the Colonies who are getting independence? We had the instance concerning my hon. Friend the Member for Wednesbury (Mr. Stone-house) in 'Rhodesia, and the incident concerning my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Ipswich (Mr. D. Foot). in whose case no reasons were given. Now that the Under-Secretary's hon. Friend is involved, should not his Department try to bring tolerance to these Colonies?

We always like to think that we are a good example and show tolerance to other countries. I do not think there is anything that we can do to induce tolerance in a country which is to become independent in two days' time, but I hope that people there will notice the reaction of hon. Members in this House.

Would it not have been better if the Minister himself had taken this opportunity to express the Government's regret at the position and not merely rely upon expressions of concern from back benchers on both sides of the House?

I thought I had done so. I said that the views of hon. Members and of my right hon. Friend, who naturally spoke for the Government, had been conveyed to the Government of Kenya. I could not have expressed it more clearly.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why the Swaziland Government, when selling him land for farming purposes and permitting him to import Jersey cattle, now refuses to grant a residence permit to Mr. Sydney Kitching, of Labora Farm, Manzini, and has requested him to leave the territory

The Swaziland Government has not sold any land to Mr. Kitching for farming purposes. He did not consult the immigration authorities either about his private purchase of land or his importation of cattle. The Immigration Control Board did not consider itself justified in granting Mr. Kitching a permanent residence permit.

Will the Under-Secretary of State investigate that information further? Is it not a fact that Mr. Kitching has been permitted to purchase several farms and to import Jersey cattle through South Africa where he has interests? Is it not extraordinary that, having developed some agricultural methods in Swaziland, he seems to have been asked to leave mainly because he is a strong opponent of apartheid?

I assure the hon. Member that there were no political reasons for this. As he knows, it is not normal to publish reasons in these cases, but if he cares to have a word with me after Question Time I will give him the reason. It was certainly not political. Mr. Kitching purchased this land on his own initiative, knowing perfectly well that he had only a temporary residence permit which would expire very soon.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when the new Constitution for Swaziland will come into effect

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when the proposed new Constitution for Swaziland will be brought into effect

It is proposed to make the Order in Council on 20th December. It will be brought into effect on a date to be announced later.

Will my hon. Friend undertake to look into the method of election to and the composition of the Legislative Council? Will he give particular attention to the method advocated by a large majority of Swazis and put forward by the Ngwenyama, which is a much fairer and simpler way than the method proposed in the White Paper?

My right hon. Friend looked at this proposal and was very interested in it. One of the difficulties is that the system which my hon. Friend suggests would require the re-registration of electors and the drawing of new constituencies every time there was an election. It is thought that this is rather impracticable.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what territories for which he is responsible remain classified as Colonies and Protectorates, respectively; what is the population and area of each of these; and what gross amount of financial aid is being extended to them

I will, with permission, circulate in the Official Report a list of the Colonies or Protectorates for which my right hon. Friend is responsible, together with details of their areas and populations.

The financial aid to these territories for the financial year 1962–63 was approximately £32,500.000, details of which were published on 4th December in Cmnd. 2147.

I thank the Undersecretary of State for that Answer. May I ask two questions? First, can he give some indication of the different kinds of Protectorate which are now within his responsibility? Secondly, in view of the very striking contrast between the area and population of the colonial empire 20 years ago and now, what steps has he taken to publicise this fact and the means by which this transformation is being more or less completed?

On the hon. Gentleman's first supplementary question, the Protectorates vary very much. These are Bechuanaland, the British Solomon Islands, Northern Rhodesia, Nyasaland, Swaziland, the Protected States in South Arabia and part of The Gambia. I think that in this enterprise both parties have made a very great contribution. I should like to see more publicity given to the fact that we have decolonised to this extent. I hope that the hon. Gentleman's Question will give rise to some publicity on that count.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement concerning the circumstances in which seven men, convicted for offences arising out of demonstrations in St. Vincent on 2nd March, 1962, who lodged an appeal against sentence, were not given the result of their appeal until 2nd November, 1963, and were then told that their sentences were to run from this date

The seven men were convicted on 4th March, 1963, and sentence was passed on 19th March. Notice of appeal was given on 15th March. The appeals were heard on 13th August but judgment was not given until 2nd November. Their sentences will run from 19th March, the date of the passing of sentence, and not from 2nd November.

I have just been informed this morning that a notice of intention to petition the Privy Council for leave to appeal has been served. In the circumstances it would not be appropriate for me to comment until the further legal proceedings have been concluded.

In thanking the hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask whether he will undertake to investigate certain rather peculiar circumstances surrounding this case, of which I will send him particulars?

Yes, of course I will.

asked the Prime Minister what reply he has sent to the Fife County Council's representations against the cutting of their school building programme for 1964–65 to £300,000

I told the county council that its representations would be considered by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland. A fresh proposal has been made to the council, namely, that it should plan in the expectation of being permitted to startschools to the value of £1 million in each of the next three years.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is still merely a fraction of what the Fife County Council says that it can achieve if given the necessary permission by the Government? What sense is there in slashing the original estimates of local authorities and then, if the local authorities shout loud enough, the Government making a concession which is fractionally part of what the local authority originally asked for? Can the Prime Minister give an assurance that if any other local education authority makes its representations and makes them loud enough, it, too, will get an increase in its allocation in this election year?

My right hon. Friend reviews the situation from time to time and is not in a position now to allot any more than this sum to school building in Fife. It is a fairly substantial sum.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that we should be grateful for the extra money that is made available for the new developing towns in the area represented by the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. W. Hamilton), but that there is also need to see that the rebuilding of schools in the older parts of the county, such as Dunfermline and St. Andrews, is equally catered for?

Yes, Sir. I certainly take the point and I think that £1 million in each of the next three years will look after the point which my hon. Friend has made.

asked the Prime Minister what steps he is taking to inquire into influence upon voting in Parliamentary, by-elections, as at Kinross and East Perthshire, and at Luton recently, by the conduct of public opinion polls between nomination day and polling day; and whether he will make a statement

I doubt if electors allow their votes to be influenced by these polls and I see no reason for an inquiry at present.

A very good Answer. Would not my right hon. Friend agree that public opinion polls add greatly to the gaiety and vivacity of Parliamentary elections and would he dismiss at once the complaint made by Scottish Liberals after the Kinross by-election that their vote was adversely affected by an opinion poll? Would he dismiss it as stunting, as also was the Liberal alleged punch-up outside the St. Marylebone Town Hall last Thursday night?

I thought that I took the earliest opportunity I could to put all my opponents in their place.

Will the Prime Minister also take into account the amount of pints which he bought the electors during the course of the campaign?

On a point of order. Is it in order for an hon. Member opposite to allege against the Prime Minister that he bought pints for electors in Kinross, thereby imputing—[Hon. Members: "Sit down."]—a breach of electoral law against my right hon. Friend? [Interruption.] Would you require that opprobrious suggestion to be withdrawn, Mr. Speaker?

I do not think that it is a matter for me. In any event, I did not hear what was said.

Further to that point of order—[Interruption.]

Order. Question Time is precious. I should be grateful if I might be permitted to hear what is being addressed to me.

As all my hon. Friends and myself heard the imputation that the Prime Minister bought pints for electors at a by-election, is it not reasonable to require it to be withdrawn?

I do not propose to rule on anything I did not hear myself. It is too difficult. Do let us get on.

asked the Prime Minister if he will appoint a separate Minister for the Fishing Industry

No, Sir. I consider that the interests of the fishing industry are best served by the present arrangements.

Whilst I do not want to imply any criticism of the present Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that the fishing industry has an enormous number of problems at present and that it is very disturbed? If he cannot appoint a separate Minister for the industry, would it not be possible for him to arrange for one of the Parliamentary Secretaries to the Ministry to devote himself whole-time to fisheries?

I know the hon. Member's interest in this. I, too, am interested in the fishing industry. As Foreign Secretary I conducted the negotiations with Iceland. I think that the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Foreign Secretary are a very good team to conduct negotiations about fishing.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this is the sixth new Ministry which hon. Membersopposite wish to create? Has he formed any estimate of the cost of this further extension?

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that the suggestion in my hon. Friend's question is of added importance in view of the failure of the fisheries conference last week? Will he, therefore, reconsider his Answer?

I have no evidence—and I do not know what evidence the hon. and learned Member can have—that the conference has failed. I have no desire to multiply Ministries. I think that under present arrangements we can deal with the fishing industry's problems adequately.

asked the Prime Minister whether new measures were discussed during his meeting with the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland to help reduce unemployment in Ulster

The main purpose of this meeting was to enable me to meet the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, but, together with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, we discussed various aspects of the Northern Ireland economic position.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the news of an early meeting between him and the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland will be very much welcomed there? Will my right hon. Friend do all he can to see that the United Kingdom Government's new assistance through increased public expenditure in development areas is extended to Northern Ireland in proportion to the number of men out of work there?

I heard my hon. Friend's speech in the House last week and read the reply made by my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. I hope that they were both satisfactory.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his discussion with President Johnson; and what arrangements have been made for a further meeting in the New Year

asked the Prime Minister whether he discussed with President Lyndon Johnson at their recent meeting the need to take a new initiative with a view to ending the present deadlock at the Geneva Disarmament Conference

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his recent meeting with the President of the United States of America

The purpose of my recent visit to Washington was to join in the tributes to President Kennedy paid by Governments and peoples from all over the world. While I was in Washington I had a brief talk with President Johnson but there was not the opportunity nor was this the occasion for detailed discussion. As the House knows, I shall be visiting the UnitedStates for more detailed talks in February.

When the right hon. Gentleman goes to the United States again, will be put two questions? First, will he ask the Americans not to be deflected from their wish for a reduction in tariffs during the G.A.T.T. negotiations next year, despite the trade war which is being forecast as a result of the Common Market countries increasing their tariffs? Secondly, will he tell the Americans that this country wants no part in a mixed-manned force, as was confirmed by a vote at the Western European Union Assembly last week?

The answer to the first of those questions is "Yes" and the answer to the second "No".

In view of the resumption of the Geneva disarmament conference on 21st January, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether the Government intend to negotiate new proposals for making a start on the physical processes of disarmament, such as a reduction of the numbers of nuclear vehicles and missiles? Does he propose to attend the conference, or will it be at Foreign Ministers' level?

I understand that the conference will be at Foreign Ministers' level, and my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will, of course, be attending.

We are consulting the Americans about disarmament proposals and whether there is any fresh initiative we can take. I think that the right hon. and learned Gentleman will have read my speech to the United Nations Assembly in which I expressed the hope that we might perhaps include the destruction of some nuclear delivery vehicles in stage one.

When the right hon. Gentleman meets President Johnson, will be consider putting forward the idea of appointing neutral observers at appropriate points on each side of the East-West border in Europe in order to try to build up further confidence between both sides?

I have myself felt that this ought to be done, but the need is to press it on the Soviet Union rather than on the United States.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind what Mr. John McCloy said last night at the Pilgrims'Dinner—that whether we like it or not the Americans are the best friends we have in the world?

Will the right hon. Gentleman instruct our delegates to the Committee of Eighteen to put forward compromise proposals, drawing on what is best in both the Russian and the American draft treaties, as he himself urged should be done in the Committee 18 months ago?

The United States draft treaty is the treaty which we support but, of course, there are certain suggestions in the Russian draft treaty which are well worthy of consideration and possible importation into the final agreement that might be made.

Since the Conference has been meeting for nearly two years, is it not time we began to accept some of the Russian proposals?

It depends on what the Russian proposals are. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, this is a very complicated question. I am as keen as he is to make progress in this. There is the question, of course, which we cannot answer ourselves yet, as to how far the Russians themselves, in view of the Chinese position, feel it safe to disarm.

asked the Prime Minister what action the Secretary of State for Industry, Trade and Regional Development, the Ministers of Pensions and National Insurance and Labour, and other Ministers concerned, are taking to prepare a co-ordinated scheme for the relief of unemployment, pending the completion of schemes referred to in the White Paper on regional development

The Government's plans for assistance to areas of high unemployment include a number of measures which are already in operation. Amongst these are the new standard grants under the Local Employment Act, 1963, free depreciation on investment undertaken in development districts, a substantial increase in public service investment in the North-East and Central Scotland, permission for local authorities to undertake work up to £15,000 without prior authorisation in the coming winter and a £75 million credit scheme for shipbuilding. The sharp increase in unemployment when occurred in the autumn of last year has not happened this year and unless we have another abnormally hard winter the effect of these measures should be increasingly felt in the coming months.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the schemes to which he has just referred, though very good in themselves, will take some time to come to fruition Does he recognise that both in Scotland and the Norht-East, and in some other parts of the country, there exist a vast number of unemployed persons for whom no relief is available apart from unemployment benefit and, occasionally, National Assistance? Would not he agree; that some further relief should be provided either by an increase in unemployment benefit or by a revision of National Assistance allowances?

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Industry and Trade is concerned with training schemes for young people who may not be able to find employment. I think that I would like to see the full effect during this winter of the measures we have taken. I think that it may be quite considerable.

Does the Prime realise that there are very nearly 100,000 unemployed n Scotland before the winter starts, and that the great majority of the schemes he outlined a few moments ago will have no effect whatever on their standard of living nor that of the thousands of unemployed in England? How can he say that we are one nation when there are hundreds of thousands living on subsistence rates?

I cannot accept the hon. Gentleman's suggestions and forecasts in this case. The total of assistance on firm offers, for instance, under the Local Employment Act at the end of October amounted to £93 million for 494 projects which can provide employment for nearly 100,000 people. [Interruption] The hon. Gentleman made certain assertions and I must refute them. The loans for the shipbuilding industry alone, I would have thought, are already having an effect on the Clyde.

Is the right hon. Gentleman purporting to refute the only assertion contained in the supplementary question of my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, West (Mr. W. Hamilton)—namely, that there are more than 100,000 unemployed in Scotland before the onset of the winter and a great many more in England, all living on subsistence rates? Does the Prime Minister accept that as part of the present situation or does he not?

It was the fact of unemployment in Scotland and the North-East that led us to introduce our present proposals.

Do those answers mean that the right hon. Gentleman proposes to ignore the low standard of living, and, in many cases, the lack of proper nutrition for more than 400,000 unemployed? [Interruption.] Is that what it means? Is that all the sympathy he has? Let him answer that question. [Interruption.] You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

The right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends have been pressing us for a long time to do something about the North-East of England and Scotland. We have now taken certain measures which I think will be effective, and I want to see the results.

To ask the Prime Minister whether he will now make a statement on pensions increases.

With permission, I will answer Question No. Q14.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Bromley (Mr. H. Macmillan) told the House on 1st August that he was considering certain matters concerning pensions and allowances. Since I became Prime Minister I have myself been looking into this question and the representations that have been made particularly as regards widows.

My right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance will put detailed proposals before the House in today's debate. These proposals will be directed mainly towards some improvement in the position of widowed mothers, whether they go out to work or stay at home and look after their children, and will be on the following lines:

First, the widowed mother's personal allowance will continue until the last child's nineteenth birthday instead of the eighteenth birthday as at present; and the child's allowances and the family allowances in respect of widowed mothers will also continue until the child's nineteenth birthday instead of the eighteenth birthday on the same conditions that now apply, namely, if the child is in full-time education or is a low-paid apprentice. This involves extending to the same limit the children's allowances paid to other National Insurance beneficiaries. The cost of this proposal will be £2 million a year, including about £1 million for family allowances, rising to about double that cost within 10 years.

Secondly, we propose a change in the allowances to the children of widowed mothers and an increase in the amount. At present these children attract a National Insurance allowance and a family allowance. We now propose a single allowance of 37s. 6d. a week in respect of each child of a widowed mother, instead of the existing aggregate allowance of 30s. a week for the first and second children and 32s. a week for subsequent children. The estimated cost of this is £3½ million a year.

Thirdly, we propose some improvement in the earnings rule as it applies to all widows and to retirement pensioners with a continued preference for widowed mothers. We propose that the earnings limits should be increased from £6 to £7 in the case of widowed mothers and from £4 5s. to £5 in the other categories. The cost of this would be about £2 million.

In addition, we propose to deal with the situation of what are known as pre-Grigg widows. These are the widows who have been drawing pensions on the basis of the 1952 code because their husbands died before the date—4th November, 1958—on which the Government accepted the recommendation of the Grigg Committee that future Service widows' pensions should be related to their husbands' retired pay or pension. It has now been decided that the pensions of those pre-Grigg widows should be calculated on the same percentage basis as widows whose husbands died on or after that date. The cost of this is estimated at £300,000 in the first year.

Will my right hon. Friend accept the appreciation of many hon. Members, myself among them, of this new break-through? Will he convey to the Chancellor our appreciation of his co-operation with my right hon. Friend? Will he also accept my pleasure at the successful result of our assignations and my hope that he will go from strength to strength in the magnificent new break-through which he has so successfully started?

The House knows how interested my hon. Friend has always been in these questions. What my colleagues and I were particularly anxious to do was to benefit not only the widow who was ableto go out to work, but the equally deserving widow who stayed behind to look after her children.

While the Government are now being a little more forthcoming at this late hour, after resisting for several years our proposals in this direction, as is on record, proposals against which hon. Members opposite have voted, will not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the time is now long overdue for abolishing the earnings rule in respect of widows? Why does he not do it?

The right hon. Gentleman's party did not say that at the Scarborough Labour Party conference.

Of course we did. [Interruption.] Is the right hon. Gentleman aware, if he can hear what I am saying, that this was said in our policy statement at our party conference and was available to be read by those hon. Members who can read? Finally, is the right hon. Gentleman proposing nothing to help the position of the so-called 10s. widow, who is suffering more acutely than any other class in the country?

People hold different opinions about the earnings rule. We have held the view, and we have acted upon it, that we should make an extra allocation in this matter and that the widow who earns £7 a week should not have that deducted when her pension is assessed. I think that that is a tenable position. I cannot say what the future may hold. The broader and more general question of pensions must be a matter which all Governments keep under review.

Probably because of the noise, the right hon. Gentleman forgot the second of my questions. Will he tell us why nothing is being done about the so-called 10s. widow?

I have nothing to say on this occasion about the 10s. pension.

I thank my right hon. Friend for what he has said. Is anything to be done for the public service widows and the widows of Service men drawing pensions under several different codes, some getting less than £200 a year?

What is known as the pre-Grigg class of widows is a case in which there is an anomaly which I am convinced should be put right. The wider question must wait for another occasion.

While congratulating the right hon. Gentleman on the result of his ruminations since he became Prime Minister, may I ask him whether that statement portends an early General Election?

I think that the right hon. Gentleman had better wait and see, but he had better be ready for it at any time.

May I ask my right hon. 'Friend whether he is aware that his action in personally looking into this question of the pensions of Service widows so soon after assuming office, and in announcing this welcome decision, will be very warmly appreciated far outside the circles concerned in this House, in the constituencies, and in the Services?