asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what plans he has for assisting overseas Governments to hold teacher training courses in the summer of 1964.

Teacher vacation courses will again be held in Nigeria, Tanganyika and Nyasaland during the coming summer. Courses are also being arranged for the first time in Kenya and, I hope, also in the Federal Republic of Cameroon. The courses will be staffed by upwards of 70 British tutors recruited mainly from schools and colleges and will be attended by about 1,100 African teachers and assistant education officers.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, which I am sure will be very well received by the Governments concerned, may I further ask him what subjects are to be included in the courses which he mentioned?

The main subject will be the improvement of the teachers' use of English, bin subjects taught in primary schools will also be included, and in Kenya there will be two courses for sixth form teachers and in Nyasaland two courses in the use of visual aids.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation how his Department is supporting research in Great Britain on the problems facing developing countries.

We are spending nearly £l million in the current financial year on supporting research in Britain for the benefit of developing countries. The Anti-locust Research Centre and the Tropical Products Institute are two well-established, examples. A new one is the Tsetse Fly Laboratory at Bristol which I opened last month.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that the value of this work depends largely on its application in the developing countries themselves?

Yes, indeed, and we try to take care of that. Many of the people working here on research have overseas connections of long standing and all the research institutes which we support take trouble to keep in touch with events overseas, both by correspondence and by visits in both directions. The Tropical Products Institute, to take one example, had no fewer than 1,000 inquiries to handle last year.

Could the right hon. Gentleman tell the House something of the inter-governmental machinery which exists to make sure that all the useful results of this research are made available to the Governments of the developing countries?

I would have to make a long speech about that, but if the hon. Gentleman will put down a Question I will try and condense the Answer.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what aid his Department is giving to the new University of Basutoland, the Bechuanaland Protectorate and Swaziland.

On the advice of the Colonial Universities Grants Committee, I have allocated £325,000 to the university from funds made available for the three years beginning in April, 1963, under the Commonwealth Development Act, 1963. The Inter-University Council for Higher Education Overseas is helping to find the staff needed by the university.

Apart from what my right hon. Friend has just said, which is very welcome, can he say whether any other overseas aid is being provided for this university?

If my hon. Friend means from British sources, the answer is that further aid will be given from funds administered by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations and for the Colonies, and there will also be aid from outside Britain, principally from the Ford Foundation and the United States Agency for Aid to International Development.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation if, following his recent visit to South-East Asia, he will make a statement on the scale and nature of his Department's programme of technical assistance in that area.

Our technical assistance under the Colombo Plan and other schemes to South-East Asia, including the Indian Sub-Continent, will amount this year to over million, an increase of more than 20 per cent. on last year. Half of this goes towards the cost of providing about 1,100 British experts of all sorts. Nearly 20 per cent. is spent on training students from the area in the United Kingdom, of whom there are 12,000 in all. Most of the balance goes on equipment.

Can my right hon. Friend say what developments he foresees in this area?

I came back from my recent tour there most impressed by the value of the present type of British aid and I hope to see this steadily increasing, but I also think we should try, and I hope we shall be able, to keep going a few larger single projects, of which a notable example is the Delhi Institute of Technology, to which we are now giving very substantial help.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation whether he has considered the recommendations of his Advisory Committee on Co-operatives on help for developing countries; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. The Committee's Report on Co-operatives Overseas is being published as a White Paper today, together with a detailed statement of the Government's views on their recommendations as hon. Members will see, the Government are able to accept the Committee's recommendations for improving the supply of technical assistance to co-operatives overseas, and my Department is already taking action on those requiring immediate attention.

May I ask the Minister whether he has in mind any means whereby information on matters to do with co-operation can be exchanged between Commonwealth countries, and also whether there are any facilities available for training Commonwealth and other overseas students in co-operative matters?

:A good deal of interchange takes place through the normal services of my Department and their contacts overseas, but, specifically as a result of the recommendations of this Report, I shall be making funds available, for example, to enable the Plunkett Foundation for Co-operative Studies to organise a Commonwealth conference of agricultural studies at the University of Exeter later this year. As regards training in Britain, arrangements are being made to improve the facilities for training at the Co-operative College at Loughborough.

While welcoming the fact that the Government have accepted the recommendations of Lord Peddie's Committee, may I ask the Minister wheher he is aware that there has been great difficulty in recruiting co-operative officers for some of the Colonial Territories? Can the Minister say whether these recommendations will assist in making that recruitment easier?

We hope so, but it is difficult to judge. I think that more work and more interest in this field should have that effect, and I am sure that we shall get the full co-operation of the Co-operative movement in this country. The hon. Gentleman will note that this Committee is to remain in existence and will keep things of this sort under review.

May I, as a member of that Committee, thank the Minister for his fine commendation of my colleagues' work? May I ask the Minister whether he is aware that we might have been more ambitious in our recommendations if we could have been more certain about funds being available to take up ideas that we might produce? Can the Minister assure the House not only that these ideas have his good will, but that none of them will be inhibited by any lack of funds for developing co-operatives overseas?

:It would be a bold Minister who gave such an assurance without qualification. I can only say that, generally speaking, the moneys that we are spending on technical assistance have been growing.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what was the amount expended in respect of former civil servants' pensions and compensation, for loss of office during the year ended April, 1963; and what percentage this formed of the assistance to former colonial Territories.

The net cost to Her Majesty's Government in the financial year 1962–63 of all payments—including loans—in respect of pensions and compensation of retired civil servants of former Colonial Territories which were independent or became independent during that period was £9½ million. This represented 25 per cent. of Her Majesty's Government's total aid in that year to all former Colonial Territories.

:Is not this a very high percentage and since, naturally, it detracts from the direct aid available for these territories, may I ask the Minister whether it would not be better if more energetic steps were taken to provide alternative employment, especially for younger civil servants who have a reasonable career in front of them?

These energetic steps are taken for those who come back. It is important, not just for our people, but for the countries in which they are working, that as many of them as are wanted in those countries should be maintained there, and an essential condition of that is that there should be a real feeling of security about pensions and compensation payments. I therefore believe that this is genuine aid. It ought to be kept in perspective, because although it was 25 per cent. of the aid for some Colonial Territories, it represented only 7 per cent. of the United Kingdom's total bilateral aid in 1962–63.

asked the Secretary of Technical Co-operation who is entitled to the services of the Overseas Resettlement Bureau.

The Overseas Services Resettlement Bureau is available on retirement to officers recruited in the name of the Secretary of State for the Colonies and for whose careers Her Majesty's Government accept a special responsibility.

:May I ask my right hon. Friend whether he will consider extending the services of this Bureau to the large number of British subjects, including local government officers, now returning from these territories, who feel frustrated because certain occupations which they are qualified to fill are not available through the ordinary Ministry of Labour sources?

I think that my hon. Friend ought to question my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour as to the efficacy of the Ministry of Labour's resources in this field, but, as regards this Bureau, my hon. Friend has raised a difficult matter and one with which one cannot help but have sympathy, but I think we must also remember that if we widen the scope of the Bureau, we equally and inevitably weaken the help it can give to those for whom we, as the Government, have a special responsibility because we recruit them.

asked the Secretary of Technical Co-operation if he will make a statement on the future of the official scheme undertaken in cooperation with the United States of America to provide teachers for East Africa.

Recruitment for 1964–65—the fourth year of the Anglo-American "Teachers for East Africa" scheme—has now started. East African Governments are asking for a total of 320 teachers for their secondary schools and the apportionment of this recruitment total between Britain and the United States will shortly be worked out.

May I ask the Minister whether he is aware that this has been one of the most notable and successful examples of Anglo-American co-operation in granting educational aid, and an example which might usefully be carried out in other places? Can the Minister therefore confirm or deny rumours that the American Government are considering withdrawing from this scheme, and if there is any truth in them, will the Government take every opportunity in discussions with the Americans to try to keep the scheme going?

If the rumours do not have a Ministerial origin, there is no obligation on the Minister to answer about them.

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker. May I, with respect, rephrase my question without the use of the word "rumours" and ask he Minister whether he has received information that the American Government are considering withdrawing from the scheme? Would that be in order?

It depends. It is really asking the Minister to confirm or deny something for which he may or may not be responsible. That is my difficulty, and that is why the question is out of order. If the information is in the air, I do not think that we are very much better off. If the hon. Member can attach it to the Minister, the hon. Member can do what he likes.

Perhaps I might be allowed to endorse what the hon. Gentleman said about the value of the scheme both in itself and as a basis of co-operation between ourselves and the United States, but I cannot comment on the reports which the hon. Gentleman mentioned at the end of his supplementary question, because I have no knowledge of them.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what is his estimate of the number of technical experts placed in developing countries by his Department since its foundation; how many were specially trained under his Department's auspices; and to what extent these persons were provided or trained in response to direct requests from the recipient countries.

About 2,500. Most of these were fully qualified on appointment, but 136 received special training. All these appointments were at the request of the receiving countries.

Is the Minister satisfied that the figures that he has given are sufficient to offset—and, one would hope, more than offset—the number of experts who have been withdrawn as a result of the run-down in the Colonial Service? On the last point, is not there a need not just to sit back and accept requests from overseas countries but to go out and stimulate ideas as to how experts might usefully be used in those territories?

I think that the figures show that this is happening. The number appointed in 1962 was three times as great as the number appointed in 1961, and the figure for 1963 was more than 25 per cent. up again. We certainly hope that the 1964 figure will also show an increase. The numbers of vacancies and the numbers of appointments are increasing, and we are stimulating quite a number of requests.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation why the estimate of expenditure of £200,000 in 1962–63 on the low-priced books scheme and a statement of estimated expenditure and commitments of £150,000 for the same period, which he gave the House on 12th April, 1962, were in excess of the actual expenditure of £107,000 for that financial year.

The £150,000 quoted on 12th April, 1962, referred to total expenditure since the inception of the scheme in 1960. The estimate of £200,000 for 1962–63 was prepared in the expectation that many more book titles would be approved in that year than eventually were. The process of selection and approval includes consultation with the publishers and with interested bodies overseas, such as the Indian University Grants Commission Her Majesty's Government are fully aware of the desirability of including more books, but the process is not of course wholly within their control.

Is not this a disturbing situation? May I ask the Minister whether he is aware that two years ago the House of Commons voted £200,000 for this purpose for one year, and that in fact Her Majesty's Government's efforts over two years are not going to succeed in reaching even that one year's total? Cannot the Minister do some—- thing to make sure that the money voted by the House of Commons is used for the purposes for which it is voted?

I assure the House that we are trying to do just that, and final approval is expected to be given shortly to a large number of selected titles. As I said, this process of approval is not entirely within our hands, nor entirely within the control of this country.

Does this scheme apply to all developing members of the Commonwealth, or only to some of them?

In the first place it applied to the Indian sub-continent, and last summer I was able to announce that it was to be extended to West Africa. Further extensions are kept in mind and are under consideration.

May I ask the Minister whether he is aware that in spite of this short-fall in expenditure under the estimate there is still a large unsatisfied demand for law text-books both by students and practitioners in West Africa.? Cannot the Minister do something about that?

We must bear in mind that under the scheme 120 titles have been published and more than 1 million books have been sold. It has made a considerable impact and we are anxious for the impact to increase as rapidly as possible.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what proposals he has for the development of the Overseas Information Services in 1964–65.

The Overseas Information Services have been considerably expanded in recent years, and after consultation with my right hon. Friends I am proposing further development in 1964–65, particularly in the activities of the British Council with special reference to English language teaching; the production of television and other films; the programme of bringing visitors to this country, and the British Information Services, especially in the newly independent countries of Africa. There will also be some increases in other information media, including broadcasting.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, as far as it goes, his statement will be welcomed? Will he say how much new provision he is making for the British Council and the B.B.C. to meet the rapidly increasing demand all over the world to learn English—and especially to learn English from English people?

I have been as helpful to the House as I can, in advance of the publication of the Estimates, the details of which are not finally settled. I am afraid, therefore, that the hon. Member's detailed question must await the publication of the Estimates.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will now make a statement on the future of the site of the former Royal Ordnance Factory, Swynnerton.

In agreement with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War and other Ministers concerned I have concluded that it would not be desirable to propose using or earmarking this site for any major development of the kind that would depend on the issue of industrial development certificates, or the provision on a substantial scale of new housing and community services. Discussion of detailed proposals for disposing of the site in conformity with that conclusion must now proceed between the War Office and the local planning authority, and the House will be informed of the outcome.

Can the Minister elaborate a little more what that means? Having spent several years in order to reach a decision about this site, do we understand that the Minister has now arrived at the conclusion that it is unsuitable for satellite development, and is no longer related to the question of overspill? Are we to understand that there will now be a real sense of urgency in using this site for industrial development in North Staffordshire?

The disposal of the site, in the light of the decision that I have just announced, will be a matter for discussion between the county and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War. I can confirm that, as the hon. Member concludes, we have decided that this is not a suitable place for a new town or for a satellite town. There is a limited amount of mobile employment available, and we have to take the decision about solving overspill problems on a broader basis than that of new towns only.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs in how many cases in the last year planning powers have been used to prevent disused railway lines from becoming derelict, unsightly and overgrown with weeds.

This information is not available since local authorities are not required to notify my right hon. Friend of schemes for treating derelict, neglected or unsightly land.

As this is likely to become an increasing problem, may I ask my hon. Friend what steps his Department is taking to cope with it, and to get in touch with local planning authorities in order to see that they cure this problem as it arises?

Local planning authorities and local authorities generally have a wide variety of powers under which they can acquire land, or require land of this sort to be dealt with. My right hon. Friend does not consider that any special consideration should be drawn to their attention at the present moment.

Would not a good way of solving this problem be to continue to use the railways?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he will now make a further statement on the policy of Her Majesty's Government towards the regional development agencies recommended by the Crowther Steering Group to the Buchanan Committee.

I do not want to appear unforthcoming, but I will be glad to make a further statement on an appropriate occasion.

Does this mean that we may expect a statement within the next month or so? If so, will the Minister bear in mind the strong feeling that exists in the professions concerned and elsewhere that his original apparent rejection of this proposal was peremptory, and that the proposal deserves serious examination, in the light of thegreat deal of current discussion of regional executive authorities on their implications for the whole of local government?

I shall welcome any opportunity to make my point of view known at greater length. I take very seriously the attitudes of mind and the enthusiasm of the people to whom the hon. Member has referred.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs to what extent the fact that the total of qualified town planning staffs in all the planning authorities in the East and West Ridings is the lowest, proportionate to population, of all the regions of England, has resulted in the slowing up of necessary planning projects; and if he will make a statement.

The shortage of people competent to advise planning authorities on the increasingly complex problems that confront them is a source of great anxiety to my right hon. Friend and me. We think this applies in all parts of the country, and doubt if it is more serious in the East and West Ridings than in some other parts.

Can the Minister tell us why it is that the situation is so bad in the East and West Ridings, as compared with anywhere else, and who is ultimately responsible for seeing that a sufficient number of these valuable men are trained?

The universities and professional bodies are stepping up the provision of training facilities. The hon. Member will realise that the complexity of planning which gives rise to this increasing demand also gives rise to the need for fairly lengthy training—so it is not a matter which can be cured overnight.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many local authorities have training schemes providing day release for their clerical officers under 18.

No figures are available but I understand that it is the general practice in local government to provide day release for junior staff.

Should not the figures be available In view of the Industrial Training Bill, is not it time that the Ministry of Housing and Local Government organised a training department to find our what is going on, and to stimulate and co-ordinate training?

I do not think that it necessarily follows that because we do not have a regular report there is no knowledge of these matters. The Local Government Examination Board carried out a survey in 1960 as a result of which it was revealed that nearly all local authorities with a population of more than 100,000 operated this scheme, as did about three-quarters of those with populations under that figure. The balance were mainly small authorities with very little demand.

Surely the Ministry has a particular rôle to perform in respect of the smaller authorities? If the Government are to put a high standard on industry in respect of training, surely it is up to the Government also to have a high standard?

As a result of this survey, consultations are going on with the representative bodies of the grades concerned with a view to tightening up conditions of service, should that prove appropriate.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will make a statement on the future use of surplus land in Woolwich Arsenal.

:Five hundred acres have been offered to the London County Council which I understand has already indicated its interest in this land. The future of the remainder of the Arsenal site is being urgently considered.

Is the Minister aware that, whatever is done about the Royal Ordnance factory, it is absolutely necessary that this whole area, and the neighbouring area of Erith, should be developed comprehensively, and that particular attention should be paid to local transport problems and the level of local employment? What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that this comprehensive development takes place?

I note that the L.C.C. and other local authorities are seized of these issues and I shall be glad to see them if they wish to discuss the matter with me.

Since there is an estimated increase of population in this area which is mooted at about 85,000, would not the Minister agree that it would not be a bad idea to look at the possibility of improving transport conditions before the permission is given?

This is all at a relatively early stage. The first thing to be decided was whether the War Office would continue to use the whole site. That decision having been taken, the L.C.C. and other authorities are able to consider an application.

Is not the Minister aware that the simple fact is that the War Office is distributing parts of the land to other Government Departments without proper consultation with the L.C.C.?

All these matters are considered by all the interests concerned before the War Office takes any such action.

By whom?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs why he has refused to include Battersea in the name of the proposed new London borough made up of Battersea and parts of Wandsworth.

There are many ancient and honoured names in London with strong claims to be retained in this way, but I think it is generally agreed that short and simple names are best for local government purposes. In this instance "Wandsworth" appeared to be the most appropriate name for the new borough.

Is not that an exceptionally silly Answer, even for a Member of this Government? If the Minister is really so keen on short and simple names, why has he included Chelsea, a smaller area with a smaller population, in the name of the Borough of Kensington?

I agree that I made an exception in that case—[HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"]—but there was a combination of reasons. In the case of Chelsea and Kensington both existing councils wanted the double name and there was strong feeling locally. Chelsea has many historical associations and is famous throughout the world as a centre of the arts. For all these reasons in combination, I decided that the exception was justified.

Is the Minister aware that all those reasons also apply in the case of Battersea where both councils wanted the other decision, and that his decision has been received with disgust by all parties?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what steps he is caking to facilitate the acquisition of land by housing societies and self-build housing associations.

The loan facilities available to housing associations of all kinds should enable them to raise money to buy land in the open market for worthwhile schemes. Local authorities have been asked to make land available to associations where they can do so without detriment to their own housing activities.

How is the Minister going to avoid competition between authorities, private developers and housing associations, where there is a shortage of land, and housing associations have some difficulty in finding land?

The hon. Member and the House will know that under the proposals of the Housing Bill the Corporation will be able to assist housing societies and, in certain circumstances, will have compulsory powers to acquire land for that purpose.

Does the Minister realise that the answer that he has given the House is quite impossible of application, because of the increasing price of land? Is he aware that in the case of Slough, for example, his right hon. Friend has admitted that the main difficulty facing housing associations will be the fact that land has rocketed in price, and will be quite outside their reach?

:The hon. Member says that it is impossible, but under the £25 million scheme this is already being done in a number of cities where the pressure on land is particularly high.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will refer to the, Milner Holland Committee the activities of numerous limited companies, of which details have been sent to him by the hon. Member for Brixton, which now own residential property in Brixton and other districts of London, formerly owned by Mr. D. Brady and Mr. Arthur Bertram Waters.

The Committee's attention has already been drawn to the report to which the hon. Member referred me and I am sure it will be considering it.

:Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that there is something fishy and crooked about a company like that of Waters, and various others operating in South London, with, for example, a paid-up capital of £2 and no banking account, but which own a considerable amount of freehold and leasehold property in Brixton?

If the Committee finds evidence a illegality they will get in touch with the authorities concerned.

:Is the Minister aware that the notorious Mr. Brady has not been identified? Can he ascertain who are the landlords of these properties which have been transferred from Mr. Brady and his 40 companies? Will he see that something is done so that tenants may be certain of their landlords and be able to take the necessary steps regarding grievances?

I am in touch with the local authorities whom I know to be concerned with this company and I shall act on any information which becomes available to me.

:Does not the right hon. Gentleman remember that the subject of mushroom companies was debated extensively when the 1961 Act was going through its stages in this House? Will he consider strengthening the housing legislation which is being considered by a Standing. Committee so that the problem may be dealt with?

There is, obviously, every chance for the hon. Gentleman to put down Amendments to the Bill.

But will the Minister accept them?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, what request he has received to provide qualified assistance to secretaries of rent tribunals who have recently been asked by the Milner Holland Committee to supply, at short notice, information which can only be secured by searching through all their files; and what help he will provide.

I have received no such requests.

I have not thought it proper to make any inquiries of the Paddington Tribunal, but is the Minister aware that I have certain knowledge that one secretary was asked to prepare in 10 days a report which could be drawn up only by having a search made through the whole of the files and the whole history of the tribunal? Does the Minister appreciate that this would seem to indicate a lack of realisation of the extent of the problem to be investigated?

I understand that before the request was made there were discussions with several of the clerks about whether it was practicable. Obviously any clerk in difficulty has only to get in touch with me.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what numbers of staff have been made available to the Milner Holland Committee to deal with information which the Committee has recently asked for in a widely circulated duplicated letter, and what are their qualifications.

Apart from its secretarial staff, the Committee has three research officers working for it. All are trained and experienced research workers. They are assisted by one clerk.

In view of that shocking Answer, will the Minister attempt to calculate how many investigators—for instance, experienced researchers and experienced assessors—were at work in Fleet Street to deal with this problem before they could get anything like a fraction of the answer required? Would not he accept that more like 50 would be required to do this work, with the assistance of the Inland Revenue and the Board of Trade? Will he do his best to dispel the impression that this Committee is not intended to deal seriously with the problem, and that this is a "sweeping under the carpet" device?

The Committee is an exceptionally strong one, with forceful people among its members. It is extremely interested in finding the answer to this problem. It is open to the Committee to ask me for more staff if it needs them.

Is the Minister aware that much more experienced staff, including some people experienced in criminal investigation, will be required to unravel the tentacles of the Brady slum empire?

It may well be that from the report of this Committee further research may prove necessary in certain fields. But those fields have to be identified and the Committee must do the work before that identification can be made.

Can the Minister estimate when the Committee is likely to report?

I fear that it will not be before the middle of the year. I cannot be more accurate than that.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the number of houses the Easington Rural District Council are permitted to build in Haswell, South Hetton, Thornley, Wheatley Hill and Blackhall in the current year; and to what extent the maximum construction will reduce the waiting list of those who are in need of accommodation.

The council has not yet told me how many houses it hopes to put into contract in 1964. Where it builds is, subject to planning permission, a matter for the council.

Because of the long waiting list of people requiring houses in this area, will the right hon. Gentleman be good enough to institute inquiries to ensure that no obstacles are being placed in the way of the building of these houses, either by the county planning committee or the National Coal Board, in respect of the acquisition of land?

:I will certainly discuss the situation with the authorities, if the right hon. Gentleman will identify his worries more precisely—perhaps in a letter to me.

asked the Lord President of the Council and Minister for Science what emergency action the Government propose to take to train the extra number of university teachers required for the critical years 1965 and 1966.

The availability of university teachers depends to a large extent on the number of post-graduate students, and the Government proposes to make available substantially more postgraduate awards for the next academic year than were made this year.

Is the Minister—whose keen interest in education we all appreciate—aware that the most urgent of all the great needs in higher education is to provide this year the training of a number of extra university teachers to cope with the expanding population in the universities from the critical year 1965–66, and will he give his personal attention to this aspect?

Yes, Sir.

In view of his great interest in higher education, can the Minister tell us for how much longer it will be in order to put down Questions for him to answer on this subject?

I understand that the hon. Gentleman is anticipating a Question to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister which already stands on the Order Paper.

Does the Minister's first Answer apply to teachers in the sciences, and, if so, what relation does it bear to the valuable work which is being done at Dounreay in Scotland? Does he propose to extend or diminish that work, in the public interest?

It does apply to science. The question has no relation to the work going on at Dounreay.

asked the Lord President of the Council and Minister for Science whether he will now take the appropriate action to ensure implementation of the recommendation of the Robbins Committee that at least one and perhaps two new universities should be established in Scotland.

I hope to make an announcement shortly.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman satisfied that the short-term problem can be met by extensions of existing facilities at existing universities? If he is so satisfied, can he nevertheless give an assurance that, from the psychological point of view, the statement which he has promised will be made in a very short time, because Scotland is desperately anxious to have a firm decision very soon?

I expect that the statement will be made in a week or two, but what the psychological effect of that delay will be I can only speculate.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury if he will now recognise the claim of Mrs. Schofield against the estate of her late mother, Mrs. A. B. Wood, for remuneration as her mother's housekeeper, notwithstanding the absence of written evidence of a contractual claim.

No, Sir.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that the circumstances in which the late Mrs. Wood made the extraordinary decision to leave the whole of her £20,000 estate to the Treasury warrant some sympathetic consideration for her daughter who devoted 12 years of her life to acting as unpaid housekeeper to her mother, enabling her mother to carry on her occupation as a teacher and thus amass the money from which the Treasury has benefited? Will he look at this matter again?

:The difficulty is that the fact that Mrs. Wood left all her estate to the Treasury is not in itself evidence that she was not in a fit and proper state to make a will. Undoubtedly, one must have great sympathy for her daughter, but the difficulty is that the will is a valid will carrying out the testator's obvious intention, and Mrs. Schofield really has no ground in law for contesting it.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Answer, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he win review vehicle Excise licence fees to ensure that heavy lorries pay an adequate amount compared to cars, in view of the evidence of the extra wear and tear they cause to roads and the fact that their annual mileage averages 20,000 as compared to 8,000 for cars.

The present tax on heavy lorries is substantially greater than the tax on cars, and I do not think that any special review is called for.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what were the administrative costs for 1962 of the Queen's and Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer in dealing with estates falling to the Crown as ultimus haeres in Scotland, and under which vote these costs were borne.

:The salary costs were £4,900 borne on the Vote of the Treasury and subordinate Departments. Offset against this were fees of approximately £1,760.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will bring the National Incomes Commission under the National Economic Development Council in order to ensure that recommendations about increases in incomes in particular industries form part of a broader national incomes policy which has the support of leaders of the trade unions and industry.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) whether he will refer to the National Economic Development Council the question of reducing tariff protection for industries where profits and incomes are rising above the rate of the Government's guiding light, as a means of distributing the benefits to the consumer;

The whole problem of prices and incomes is at present under urgent consideration by the National Economic Development Council which is seeking to define the respective rôles to be played by Government, management and the trade unions. The various matters raised within these questions are within the scope of these discussions. It is too early to predict in detail what view the Council will take of these questions. But, following last week's meeting, I am sure that it would be wrong to underestimate the broad measure of agreement which exists on the need for a constructive and properly balanced policy relating to prices and incomes of all types. The Council will be resuming its discussion at its next meeting.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that an effective incomes policy requires the co-operation of the trade unions and the employers and that the N.E.D.C. is a body where employers and trade union representatives are meeting to discuss, among other things, an incomes policy? Is it not, therefore, essential that the N.I.C. should be more closely associated with the N.E.D.C? If not, what is the future of the N.I.C?

:This is one of the reasons why the original Answer to the Question was not as detailed as it might have been. This is a part of the discussion which is going on within the National Economic Development Council. The Council is resuming discussion of the whole problem at its next meeting. As I said, at the moment my right hon. Friend does not contemplate any change in the constitution of the National Incomes Commission. Within the framework of its discussions, he regards it as having, and as having demonstrated the importance of, a separate rôle.

:Do I understand from his Answer that the Minister accepts the principle that tariffs should be reduced in industries where profits and incomes are rising above the level laid down by the guiding light? Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that this is one way of limiting increases in the cost of living which affects both sides of industry equally?

:The criteria for assessing the justification for any particular wage increase were suggested in fairly general terms in the White Paper, Incomes Policy: The Next Step, Cmnd. 1626. They have since been somewhat amplified in Ministerial statements, and in the Government's evidence to the National Incomes Commission on the Scottish plumbers' and builders' case, copies of which also were made available to Members of Parliament.

With reference to the first part of the Economic Secretary's last answer, in view of the reports which have been appearing that the Government put some statement before the last meeting of the National Economic Development Council, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to consider publishing any such statement so that the House of Commons may know what proposals the Government have in mind in this connection in order that we may be informed as to any bargain which they have put to the employers and the trade unions so that the public interest can be fully taken into account in all these matters?

This is an entirely separate question. I shall report to my right hon. Friend what the hon. Gentleman has said.

How can this be a separate question when the Minister, in his last reply, referred to published statements by the Government on these matters? I am asking that unpublished statements—unpublished, at least, as far as Members of the House of Commons are concerned—should also be made available so that we may consider and debate these issues which are at least at important to the House of Commons and the public as a whole as they are to the National Economic Development Council.

I am not quite sure what the hon. Gentleman is worrying about. I have already said that I shall tell my right hon. Friend of the hon. Gentleman s desire to have the unpublished, if any, published; but I still think that unpublished statements are a totally separate issue from published ones, to which I referred.