asked the Minister of Labour whether he will now establish an industrial training centre in The Hartlepools.

There is at present a centre at Tursdale and we are setting up a new centre at Billingham. My right hon. Friend considers that these should give an adequate coverage to the area.

Will not my hon. Friend reconsider the matter? More Industry is coming into my constituency, I still have to face the loss of the shipyard a couple of years ago and there is still 6·3 per cent. unemployment. Would it not he a good thing to establish an industrial training centre in the constituency to give greater confidence for the future?

I certainly appreciate what my hon. and gallant Friend said about the problems of The Hartlepools. At the same time, he realises that it is important for us to put a centre in one of the main areas of population, which is done in the case of Dillingham. It is, of course, available for The Hartlepools.

What does the hon. Member mean by "adequate"? Does he mean that the number of training places is one-quarter or one-tenth, of one-twentieth, of the number unemployed or likely to become unemployed, or is it related to the needs for labour for future industries?

We must be very careful in this matter to match our training arrangements with the jobs which will become available at the end of them. That is particularly important if we are to attract the support of all concerned, as is very necessary in a training programme. We shall certainly watch the situation and, if we can, we shall expand the programme.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of the decision to raise the school-leaving age by one year, he will consult the Minister of Education with a view to examining the post-school advisory services of each department to meet the new circumstances.

My Department, the Ministry of Education and the Scottish Education Department maintain continuous liaison through the Central Youth Employment Executive, which will be examining this question carefully to ensure that the Youth Employment Service is ready to meet the change.

Can my right hon. Friend give any indication when this Executive will be considering the matter?

I cannot give a precise indication. My hon. Friend is aware that the proposed change will not take place for some time. I assure her that it will be given full consideration well in advance of that time.

asked the Minister of Labour how large a percentage of unemployed workers has used employment exchanges in Great Britain in recent years.

The great majority of unemployed workers register at employment exchanges and youth employment offices. Large numbers of unemployed persons who are receiving no payment register to make use of the placing service and also to obtain credit of their National Insurance contributions. Registration is, of course, a condition for the receipt of unemployment benefit and also, in most cases, for the receipt of National Assistance.

While I am grateful to the Parliamentary Secretary for some answer, can he not nevertheless answer my Question by giving me an approximate percentage?

No. I am afraid it is not possible to give that.

asked the Minister of Labour how many prosecutions were brought during 1963 for failure to report industrial accidents.

There were 121.

Is not this an extraordinarily low figure? Does not the Parliamentary Secretary recognise that there are about 80,000 unreported accidents, many of which probably could have been the subject of prosecution? Is the reason for the very small number of prosecutions the overload on the Factory Inspectorate and the very few factory inspectors?

No. I do not think that it is. There are a large number of matters which have to be considered before one decides whether a prosecution is appropriate.

asked the Minister of Labour what progress has been made with the survey into the reporting of industrial accidents.

As the House is aware, a survey in October 1962 revealed widespread failure on the part of occupiers to report industrial accidents. Both sides of industry are cooperating in giving publicity to the reporting requirements of the Factories Act, and a leaflet reminding occupiers of their obligations will shortly be distributed to all factory occupiers.

I welcome those moves, but would it not be desirable to trace back some of the results of the reporting of industrial injuries to the source—that is to the accident—and then make more strenuous attempts to prosecute? Does the Minister think that 121 prosecutions out of whatever figure he likes to give—it is many thousands—is sufficient deterrent by way of penalty?

I do not think would like to express a point of view one way or the other on that. Cases of failure to report will certainly be followed up and, in appropriate cases, prosecution will certainly be undertaken.

asked the Minister of Labour if he has had his proposed discussion with the four banks concerned on the suggestion in paragraph 326 of Lord Cameron's Report relating to the conditions of service of bank employees, on the lines of the complaint made by the National Union of Bank Employees; and if he will make a statement.

I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for East Ham, North (Mr. Prentice) on 9th March.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that the reply he refers to was a very inconclusive one'? Will he not give a date when this very important matter concerning very important public servants should be dealt with? Will he expedite the matter?

I am hoping to have further talks with the other parties concerned in the not-too-distant future. I agree that I want to make progress, but, as I indicated last time, I do not want to comment in detail at this stage.

A week ago, when answering Questions, the Minister did not want to be drawn on his own attitude on this matter. Will he at least go as far as to say that he takes the view as Minister of Labour that all workers, including bank employees, are entitled to representation with their employers when they form a bona fide trade union which organises a substantial proportion of the staff?

I must deny myself the luxury of criticism of one side or the other at present. There are points in this which, as the hon. Gentleman is fully aware, are very complicated. I want to give myself the best opportunity of making progress.

This is admittedly a very complicated situation, as is shown by the Cameron Report. Is there not one simple principle here, that people are entitled to representation? Is not this recognised by a very large part of industry and commerce? Has not this principle been supported very often by the Minister's predecessor? Why cannot he come out in public and say that he supports the principle in this context?

I think that the hon. Gentleman fully realises the attitude of the Government in regard to matters of this sort. However, I have indicated that, for the reasons I have given, I do not want to comment on this particular matter.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will now take steps to contribute from public funds towards the legal expenses properly incurred by the Bank Staff Associations arising out of the inquiry recently conducted by Lord Cameron at the Government's request into a complaint against the Government made by the National Union of Bank Employees to the International Labour Organisation.

I have explained to the bank staff associations that the Government do not feel able to make a contribution to the expenses they incurred in connection with Lord Cameron's inquiry.

Is not this rather unfair? Was not the inquiry set up entirely for the purpose of giving the Ministry some information—which according to the bank staff it already had? Could the Government not see their way to making some contribution to the necessary expenses? Obviously, the bank staffs have had to employ counsel for this business.

I have invited the staff associations to come to see me on this and other matters. I am perfectly willing to hear what they have to say, but I must point out that in no circumstances previously have the Government made contributions of this nature, and it would be very difficult for me to establish a precedent in this case.

I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for saying that he will see thy; staff associations to discuss the matter afterwards, as I really think they have a point here.

asked the Minister of Labour, in view of the drain of fitters trained by local firms to Government Departments and local authorities, what action is being taken by Her Majesty's Government to encourage apprenticeship schemes by such employers.

The movement of trained men between private industry and public authorities is by no means all one way. On the contrary, Government Departments, together with the Services, are, over the country as a whole, net contributors to the supply of skilled engineering manpower to industry.

I am glad to hear that, but is my hon. Friend aware that as recently as 4th March my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War admitted that the War Department had taken on five times as many civilian fitters as it had trained? Will my hon. Friend draw the attention of his right hon. Friends to this point so that Government Departments and public authorities shoulder their full responsibility for running adequate apprenticeship schemes?

I assure my hon. Friend that my right hon. Friend is most anxious that Government Departments should contribute their full quota to training arrangements. Indeed, during the Second Reading debate on the Industrial Training Bill, my right hon. Friend said that Government Departments would at least equal the standards set by the training boards and would make a fair and reasonable contribution to training in the appropriate industries. With that undertaking in mind, I will certainly see that what my hon. Friend has said is brought to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War.

asked the Minister of Labour what proportions of the Great Britain total of males under 20 years and wholly unemployed for more than 52 weeks were in Scotland and the Midlands, respectively, on the date of the most recent count.

On 13th January, 32·9 per cent. of the Great Britain total were in Scotland and 4·1 per cent. were in the Midlands region.

Will the Minister bear in mind that this is long-term chronic unemployment relating to young men who ought not to be out of work at all? Does he not agree that the contrast between these two parts of the country is really staggering and indicates that the measures that the Government have stated they are following are apparently having no effective results whatsoever?

I would not say that they are having no effective results. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that anybody who is unemployed for a long period is a cause of grave concern. I also agree that the high percentage in Scotland is very regrettable indeed. We are' trying, in ways of which the hon. Gentleman is well aware, to make progress here. I hope that the more encouraging picture of unemployment generally will help us to reduce these numbers substantially during this year.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the ratio of wholly unemployed boys to notified unfilled vacancies for boys at the latest available date in Scotland and the Midlands, respectively.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the ratio of wholly unemployed girls to notified unfilled vacancies in Scotland and the Midlands, respectively, at the latest available date.

In February, for every 100 wholly unemployed girls there were 75 unfilled vacancies in Scotland and 1,406 in the Midlands region. For every 100 wholly unemployed boys, there were 24 vacancies in Scotland and 694 in the Midlands region.

Is the Minister aware that these figures continue to be disquieting? In relation to the figures he gave me on 27th January, they show that there has been very little change in the number of unfilled vacancies in Scotland, whereas in the Midlands there has been at least a 50 per cent. increase in job opportunities? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a whole parade of Ministers of Labour and Chancellors of the Exchequer have told us that they would not rest until there was parity of job opportunity? Can the Minister give us a date when the Government will achieve this state of being able to rest?

No, I do not think that I can give the date which the lion. Gentleman wishes. In these comparisons, of course, it is true that the Midlands region, in particular, is showing a much better position. In the most recent figures, it is relevant to bear in mind that over Christmas, and again at the end of January, there were very substantial numbers of youngsters coming from school on to the employment market in Scotland. In fact, there were over 14,000 at Chrismas and 3,000 at the end of January, whereas in the Midlands region for that period there were only 2,000. It is only fair to make this point

We appreciate these points, but we ask the Minister to appreciate equally that we have thousands of boys and girls who have been without jobs. Many of those who will get jobs when they leave school will find in two years' time that they are paid off so that the employers can take on labour coming from school.

I accept that there may be a degree of this. For that reason, we are seeking all the time to get as great a percentage of them into apprenticeship as we can.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the increase in the number of males in employment in Scotland and the rest of Great Britain, respectively, from mid-1951 to the latest available date.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the increase in the number of women in employment in Scotland and the rest of Great Britain, respectively, from mid-1951 to the latest available date.

A comparison of the estimated figures for 1951 and 1963 shows that the number of women in employment increased by 44,000 in Scotland and 849,000 in the rest of Great Britain. A similar comparison for males in employment shows a decrease of 33,000 in Scotland and an increase of 963,000 in the rest of Great Britain.

Is it not fantastic that these figures should exist? Are they not evidence of a very serious position, more serious than most people realise? What is the Prime Minister doing to fulfil the recent promises which have been made about the improvements that are to come to Scotland?

These figures bear out the position which has been shown in a number of Questions there have been in recent weeks on this subject. It is a position about which all Ministers have expressed their concern. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the real problem is the basic problem of certain declining industries in Scotland, just as in certain areas of England, too. What we are seeking to do is to combat that. I think that the proposals, including the White Paper issued last autumn, go a very considerable way towards trying to help in this field.

Surely the Minister is aware that we have been faced with these declining industries for many years and that we on this side of the House and the people in Scotland are tired of getting the excuse trotted out time after time that our position is due to declining industries? What have the Government been doing in the last twelve years to find jobs to take the place of those that we lose through declining industries? That is the problem which the Government have to solve.

Yes. This is what the Government are seeking to do at present. Indeed, we have given assistance amounting to over £50 million under the Local Employment Act and, as announced in the White Paper last autumn, public service investment in Scotland is to be increased during the first two years of the plan from £100 million to £140 million. So we are trying to do what we can.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the increase in the number of boys in employment in Scotland and in the rest of Great Britain, respectively, between mid-1951 and the latest available date.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the increase in the number of girls in employment in Scotland and the rest of Great Britain, respectively, from mid-1951 to the latest available date.

Between mid-1951 and mid-1963 the number of girls in employment increased by 4,400 in Scotland and 140,400 in the rest of Great Britain. The number of boys decreased by 600 in Scotland and increased by 111,900 in the rest of Great Britain.

Are not these figures, particularly for boys, disgraceful, and do they not, together with the other figures which the Minister has been giving this afternoon, illustrate the intolerable degree of economic injustice that is taking place between one part of the United Kingdom and another? When will the Government do something drastic about this?

I have been endeavouring to point out in reply to other Questions the steps that the Government are taking in seeking to establish new employment and by the provision of advance factories. These and other steps are helping to provide a number of new types of industry. When these are established, I hope they will grow.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that each of his predecessors in the past 10 years has been confronted with similar figures, although not nearly so bad, and that each has given virtually the same answer? Despite their giving the same answer, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the trend continues and appears to be worsening? Is it not obvious that we know the cause of the trouble and that the only way to solve it is for the Government to take action so that we in Scotland may get rid of the constant draining away of our young people to the South?

As I have pointed out, we have new proposals, as well as those referred to in the White Paper of last autumn, and we are endeavouring to solve this problem. We are also trying to develop advance factories which, in their turn, will be of help.

asked the Minister of Labour what percentage of boys leaving school in Scotland entered apprenticeships in each of the last five years.

They were 32·1 in 1959, 33·3 in 1960, 38·2 in 1961, 38·9 in 1962 and 37·9 in 1963.

Is the Minister aware that, though these figures are comparable with those in England and Wales, they still show a great need for an increase in the training for skills for our young people for the future? In view of the Newsom Report and other reports on training for skills, is the Minister satisfied with what is being done north of the Border to provide such training for our young people?

In this sphere the figures for Scotland are more satisfactory than those in the rest of the country—the percentage of apprenticeships is somewhat higher there, I am glad to say. In relation to training for young people in general, I attach great importance to the Industrial Training Act, which got the Royal Assent last week. Once established the Act will enable us to give a much better start to young people both in apprenticeships and other types of youth training.

asked the Minister of Labour how many jobs have been lost in Scotland in the last four years; how many have been provided in the same period; and when it is expected that the level of unemployment will be comparable to that of the rest of the United Kingdom.

As my hon. Friend informed the hon. Gentleman in his reply to his Question on 17th February, the only reliable and comprehensive figures of jobs lost and gained are those derived from changes in the numbers of employees in employment, which show an increase in Scotland of 21,700 between mid-1959 and mid-1963. I cannot forecast the level of unemployment at any particular time.

Would the Minister agree that the figures show a net gain of about 5,000 new jobs per year, which is not anywhere near to the figure shown by the Government in their own White Paper on Central Scotland? In that White Paper a whole lot of assumptions are made on emigration and bringing down the rate of unemployment in Scotland nearer to the national average. Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Government themselves estimate that a net gain of at least 10,000 new jobs a year is needed for the ten years between 1961 and 1972, and a net gain of 14,000 per year between 1971 and 1981? What additional measures do the Government intend to take to get anywhere near the figures they themselves produced?

I have indicated in earlier replies today some of the things that the Government are doing, or are proposing to do in the future, in Scotland. In particular, I attach considerable importance to the advance factories, which are getting under way. Considerably more are being introduced now, and I hope that they will have a good effect. In addition, there is the good underlying trend of employment over the country as a whole, including Scotland, which is much healthier than it was some time ago.

Will my right hon. Friend consider as part of his Departmental responsibility issuing a comprehensive statement on what has been achieved in employment in the areas that have special Government attention? Would it not be a very good idea for his Department to show what tremendous progress we have made on the North-East Coast?

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for that comment and I should certainly like to look at what she has suggested. I am sure that there is a very good picture to show generally, when considered against the problem involved.

Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider his statement that he cannot make a forecast of levels of unemployment, both because it rather makes nonsense about what has been said about making these forecasts and because the level of unemployment is an extremely important factor for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to consider in the regulation of the economy? How can the right hon. Gentleman control the economy if the Minister of Labour does not know what the level of labour will be?

I do get in touch with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer from time to time, but I do not propose to try to establish his targets. What matters is getting people into jobs and not trying to arouse any hopes that one may not be able to fulfil. Much the more important thing is to create the jobs, and that is what we are seeking to do.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he has mentioned several times this afternoon the prospects of advance factories? Does he not recollect that at least for 10 years the present Government have been opposed to advance factories, and that it is only the imminence of a General Election which has converted them?

No, I cannot accept that suggestion. In fact, these advance factories have been planned and have been going ahead for some considerable time.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that the number of boys and girls under 18 years who were unemployed in Scotland for more than eight weeks has increased more than three-fold in the last 12 years, and that this was a greater increase than in any other region; and, in view of this widening difference between Scotland and the rest of the country, what special measures he intends to take to deal with the problem.

I am greatly concerned about this problem. The Government are taking special measures to raise the general level of employment in Scot- land. I am convinced that this is the best way of dealing with the problem of unemployment among young people.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the young people who are currently unemployed in Scotland will be very gratified that he is concerned about the situation?

asked the Minister of Labour what action he is taking to provide alternative employment for the civilians at present employed at Sculthorpe air base in Norfolk which is soon to be vacated by United States Forces.

Our local officers are in touch with the responsible authorities and will do everything possible to assist any of the workpeople affected who seek their help in finding alternative employment.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that several hundred civilians are employed at this base, which is soon to be given up by the United States Forces? Is he aware that there is no alternative employment in this rural area for these civilians and that the estimated value of the buildings, houses, equipment and so on at the base is between £60 and £80 million If the Air Ministry does not intend to use the base, which is a ready-made industrial site, will the hon. Gentleman ask his right hon. Friend to have early discussions with his colleagues, since it is no good waiting until these people are unemployed before action is taken?

Although I recognise the concern which must be felt by those who may lose their employment, we do not think that the closure will create any long-tern unemployment in the area. Despite that I note what the hon. Gentleman says and I will see that it is brought to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Industry and Trade.

asked the Minister of Labour how many labour attachés are now serving overseas; what were the comparable figures five years ago, and 10 years ago; and whether he plans to increase these appointments.

There are now 18 labour attachés and labour advisers serving overseas. There were 19 in 1959 and 18 in 1954. A vacant post in South America will be filled shortly and a new post is to be established in East Africa. An assistant is to be appointed to the labour adviser in West Africa.

Are not these figures very small, and would the Minister not agree from his experience at the Foreign Office that labour attachés are extremely valuable and often have contacts in a country which the embassy itself does not have? Now that the whole question of representation is being reviewed, in the light of the Plowden Report, will the right hon. Gentleman consider increasing the number of labour attachés?

I agree that labour attachés play a valuable part in diplomatic representations and, as I have indicated, we are making certain marginal increases in their numbers. I would like to think again about the point the hon. Gentleman has raised, and I can assure him that, where a real need is shown, I will look at the matter sympathetically.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the percentage rise in wage rates, taking into account reduced hours of working, for the period since October 1963.

It is estimated that the index of hourly wage rates has increased by about 2¾ per cent. between the end of October, 1963, and the middle of February, 1964.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that is a very satisfactory figure when related to the "guiding light", and since the cost of living in the same period has gone up by about 1 per cent., the figure is even more satisfactory when one realises that wage rates are ahead of the cost of living?

I would agree with the latter part of my hon. Friend's question in that it is satisfactory that wage rates should keep ahead of the cost of living. I am not quite so sure that I am as happy about the first part because of the short period over which it has taken place. However, if one equates it with the period January, 1963, to January, 1964, the annual rise is about 4½ per cent., which is within the rate of increase in productivity during that period.

Is it not significant that these wage increases have taken place in the pre-election period, when employers and the Government want to keep the workers sweet? If this is not the case, why did the Government reject the 3 per cent. wage claim of the nurses and others two years ago?

The hon. Member will be aware that there are other reasons relating to the economy and that the position is very different now from what it was then. But, if the hon. Gentleman is saying that the Government are seeking to keep the workers sweet, he should occupy my job for a little while and then he will realise that the workers do not always say that.

If the Minister finds satisfaction in wage rates having taken this trend since January, 1963, what is all the row with the postmen for; why not give them what they want?

The subject of postmen does not arise on this Question.

How do the figures compare with the period a year ago and with 1951, when the party opposite were in power?

I have given the comparison for the period a year ago. I am afraid that I do not have the other figures available. However, I think that they are generally quite well known.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will take steps to ensure, through the grant of labour permits, that foreign girls working as au pairs are not exploited as cheap labour.

No, Sir, Labour permits are issued for full-time regular employment. They are not suitable for an au pair arrangement where the girl comes to this country primarily to learn the language and live for a while as a member of a British family. My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, who is responsible for au pair arrangements, has recently had a revised booklet prepared in several languages which, he hopes, will help to prevent misunderstanding and abuses.

While recognising and accepting what the hon. Gentleman has said, is it not a fact that once the Home Office grants a girl a permit to come to this country, from then on it takes no interest in her? Is he aware that these girls must find jobs for themselves and that when they find jobs they have no stable agreements and are liable to instant discharge without reason? Is he further aware that, because of the language difficulties which many of the girls have, they are thus often placed in very precarious situations? Would the hon. Gentleman not consider trying to find a scheme whereby, when the Home Office grants permits, the Ministry of Labour then takes some interest in these girls when they come to this country?

I am sure the hon. Gentleman appreciates that it is of the very essence of an au pair arrangement that it is not a job and that, therefore, it is not subject to a labour permit. Nevertheless, I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary will take note of what the hon. Gentleman has said. I must repeat, however, that a labour permit is not appropriate for au pair arrangements because these arrangements do not constitute an employer-employee relationship.

Surely the hon. Gentleman is aware that these girls come to Britain for a double purpose, to study and to work, and that their work is part and parcel of their way of being able to study in this country? Will the Parliamentary Secretary urge his right hon. Friends to show more interest in these girls when they come here?

Whatever may be the purpose of the girls in coming here, it is not for the purpose of taking up a job.

asked the Minister of Labour whether it is proposed to extend the scope of the half-yearly inquiry into the average earnings of manual workers so as to bring more industries within its scope.

I am looking into the possibility of establishing a regular earnings inquiry in the distributive trades.

I understand that in the present figures that the Minister takes, industries like transport and agriculture are not included. I should have thought that one would have got a more realistic figure if the earnings were taken further across the board. Would my right hon. Friend look at that suggestion? Further, can he tell me what he, or his Department, thinks would be the difference in the present earnings figure if it had been taker across a wider field?

It is difficult to give any precise indication on the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question. On his first point, although we have inquiries covering a very wide number of industries, there are also certain other industries—such as agriculture, coal mining, railways and docks—that are not specifically covered but which give us certain information. This is made available from time to time and published in the Ministry of Labour Gazette. We therefore have a fair coverage across the field.

asked the Minister of Labour what were the average monthly percentages of unemployed registered in the Greenock—Port Glasgow area in the years 1961, 1962, and 1963, respectively; and what is the average monthly figure so far for 1964.

They were 7·4 per cent. for 1961, 7·2 per cent. for 1962, 8·5 per cent. for 1963 and 7·4 per cent. for January to February this year.

In view of the Government's failure to make progress with this very urgent problem, can the right hon. Gentleman inform the House of his intentions in relation to industrial retraining in the area? Is he aware that he is proposing to provide far too small a service for the number of unemployed, and we are completely at sea about the numbers to be introduced in these courses. Can the Minister give us some information on the subject?

We shall certainly consider the kind of training to be provided at the new centre in Port Glasgow in relation to the jobs becoming available in the area. I will certainly look at that matter again for the hon. Member. Training will be provided in the engineering and building trades.

asked the Minister of Labour how many building workers are registered as unemployed in the London area.

At 10th February, 7,273 workers whose last employment was in the construction industry were registered as unemployed in the Greater London area.

With so many thousands of building workers out of work, and so many other thousands employed on office building and luxury and other inessential building, how and when will the Government ever tackle the real problem of housing people now living in. London in conditions that are hardly fit for animals? When do the Government intend to sit up and take notice of the desperate situation now existing in London, and in quite a number of other places, at the present time?

Without in any way commenting on the last part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question—which is, of course, a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government—I must say that the really important item is the number of skilled workers. There can be no doubt, and it is widely accepted, that the shortage of skilled workers in the industry will become acute during the year, and every possible means of adding to the labour force will be fully justified.

asked the Minister of Labour what has been the response to date to his appeal to industry to support the course being organised for training officers by the British Association for Commercial and Industrial Education in Bristol in May.

There has been a heavy over-application for this course, which is being organised jointly by B.A.C.I.E., the Institute of Personnel Management, the Industrial Training Council and the City and Guilds Institute.

While I welcome what the Minister has just said, may I ask what further steps he is taking to enlarge the operation of the course? Will he agree that lack of skilled training officers is likely to be a bottleneck in expansion of industrial training, and that something on a big scale is needed that may lead to some hundreds of courses every year? What plans are now being made to prepare for that sort of operation?

The words used by the hon. Gentleman in the earlier part of his supplementary question seem to me to be a paraphrase of something I said during the Committee stage of the Industrial Training Bill. We both agree on the need for more provision, and I am very glad that this time there has been over-application for the course. While I am looking at the whole position, we must see as the course goes along what steps we can take, or need to take. However, I think that the hon. Gentleman will remember that this particular course was heavily subsidised by my Ministry, and I believe that, in general, industry should bear the cost itself.

asked the Minister of Labour what he is doing to give effect to the Industrial Training Act.

I have circulated to the interested industrial organisations draft schedules setting out the activities which I propose should be covered by Industrial Training Boards for the engineering and construction industries, and I am publicising these definitions. I shall take into account any views which these organisations may have before making Industrial Training Orders for these two industries. I shall be circulating similar drafts for the iron and steel and wool textiles industries in the near future. I am happy to inform the House that Sir John Hunter has agreed to become Chairman of the Central Training Council which I hope to set up next month.

Will my right hon. Friend accept how helpful that will be to the North-East, and how welcome it will be particularly to the North-East, to hear that Sir John Hunter has agreed to serve? Will my right hon. Friend accept the grateful thanks of those of us who have been pressing this sort of action upon him, and will he keep up the good work?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. We shall certainly endeavour to keep up the good work.

The right hon. Gentleman has told the House that he is circulating a draft of his definition of the industries for the two boards. Can he give a forecast of how long it will be before he can produce an industrial training order in relation to these two industries? What does he expect the timing to be before the first boards are appointed? Secondly, what steps is he taking to build up a larger team at the centre to provide central planning for this whole operation? Can he say how the present size of his training division compares with what it was a year ago?

I should not like to tie myself down specifically in answering the first part of that supplementary question. I have asked for representations to come back to me on these definitions by 3rd April in respect of the construction industry and by 10th April in respect of the engineering industry. I am seeking to make progress as quickly as I can. I should not like to say specifically how soon thereafter I can set up these boards.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will give the number of unemployed registered in the Mexborough Employment Exchange area at the latest available date.

Nine hundred and nine on 10th February.

Does the hon. Gentleman not think that the figures for this district are rather alarming? Could he say how many of these men were employed at Messrs. Baker and Bessemer? Is he not aware that Messrs. Baker and Bessemer will close down on the 28th of this month, which will swell the numbers of unemployed by another 200 or 300? Does he not know that the unemployed men in this district are disgusted at the complacency which he and his right hon. Friend are showing? Will he consult the Secretary of State for Industry, Trade and Regional Development with a view to getting some industries into this area and taking over this vacant site?

Of the 853 discharged by Messrs. Baker and Bessemer, 86 men and 12 women are registered as unemployed at Mexborough Employment Exchange and 18 men are registered at other nearby offices. As for the remainder who will lose their jobs in the melting shop, their prospects of employment are reasonably good. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that there is no hint of complacency so far as my right hon. Friend or I myself are concerned. I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Industry, Trade and Regional Development will take note of what the hon. Gentleman has said about getting new industry into the area.