asked the Minister of Power if he will give a direction in the national interest to the Iron and Steel Board under Section 10(1) of the Iron and Steel Act, 1953, authorising the Board to reduce the maximum price of steel to be charged by producers to the shipbuilding industry.

No, Sir.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that British shipbuilders are paying to the British steel industry higher prices than Continental shipbuilders are paying for Continental steel, which makes the British shipbuilders' competitive position much inferior to that of the continental shipbuilding industries? Really, could he not, as he has power to do, reduce the maximum price which steel manufacturers charge for steel? Could he tell me whether individual steel companies in this country are at liberty to reduce the prices of steel or give discounts to particular customers for heavy bulk purchases, or are they bound by the price fixed by the Steel Board?

The price fixed by the Steel Board is the maximum price. The Board did reduce the maximum price to shipbuilders by about £1 a ton in December last year. It has recently carried out one of its normal reviews of steel prices and has concluded that no further reduction is necessary. I see no reason to disagree.

But surely, a £1 a ton reduction in December, 1963, while Continental steel prices are far lower than ours! Really, could not the hon. Gentleman take some action to break this monopoly ring in the steel industry and force it to be more competitive with Continental manufacturers, in order to give that help which our shipbuilding industry needs?

I would reject any suggestion that British steel prices are not competitive. Of course, prices change from time to time in relation to Continental prices.

asked the Minister of Power what steps the Government are taking towards a national fuel and energy policy; and whether he will now reconsider the policy of Her Majesty's Government on the writing down of National Coal Board assets, which have become devalued but which are still serviced at 3 per cent. per annum.

I refer the hon. Member to my replies to the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. W. Hamilton) on 28th November, 1963, and my statement in the House on 29th November, 1963. On the second part of the Question, I see no need for a change of policy at present.

Was it not in February, 1961, that the present Government made statements in the House about a national fuel policy, and yet the nation, despite the statements, is still not clear where we stand with regard to a national policy? With regard to the estimated 4 per cent. increase in production by the Electricity Board arising from atomic energy, in view of the over-rosy picture painted during the ebullient time of Zeta, may we now have a reassessment of our whole fuel policy and the relationship of atomic energy to it?

No, Sir; I do not think that an exposition of fuel and power policies can really be made in answer to a question, and a supplementary question at that. I would refer the hon. Gentleman to my statement on the subject in the debate on the Second Reading of the Electricity and Gas Bill on 29th November last.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that a national fuel policy should involve two elements—low cost energy available to the consumer and absolute freedom of choice of fuel? Will he also consider the difficulties of obtaining such elements in a national fuel policy if the electricity workers are not prepared to adhere to a three-year arrangement?

I should like to study the succinct definition of the policy put forward by my hon. Friend.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware of the magnificent effort of the publicly-owned National Coal Board? Is it not acknowledged that private industry, since public ownership of the coal mining industry, has virtually been subsidised by hundreds of millions of £s by the National Coal Board being able to provide cheap industrial coal? Is not this admitted by the Institute of Economic Affairs, whose papers are presumably read by that defender of the freedom of private enterprise, the hon. Member for Willesden, East (Mr. Skeet)?

asked the Minister of Power whether he will take the necessary steps to oblige petrol distributors to display clearly the octane rating of the various brands of petroleum as well as the respective retail price.

No, Sir, I am not convinced that legislation for this purpose would be justified.

Surely octane rating is the valid test of every petrol. Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that petrol can be sold with any sort of claim but that unless there is some standard by which the public can judge, in this as in many other things covered by the Merchandise Marks Act, it will not have the sort of protection it should have? Should not this be considered?

If general legislation were required, that would be for my right hon. Friend the secretary of State for Industry and Trade. I do not accept that only octane rating is a valid test of the standard petrol. There are such matters as volatility and absence of deleterious material.

It is octane rating that is used in the testing of engines by the manufacturers and if it were established generally as a test, would not the public be in a better position to know what it was buying?

I am aware of what the hon. Gentleman said in the first part of his supplementary question but I still maintain that this would not be a very useful guide to motorists.

asked the Minister of Power if he will introduce amending legislation to provide for comprehensive compensation for consequential damage in cases of mining subsidence.

No, Sir.

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary think that the time has come to recognise that all citizens should be comprehensively covered against damage resulting from the hazards of mining subsidence? Is it not illogical and unjust that—having recognised that when dwelling houses and other structures are damaged the citizens concerned should be comprehensively compensated—where, for example, as happened in my constituency recently, a citizen's television set is completely smashed by the tilt of the house he should not also be able to claim compensation for that?

This is a very difficult problem. It was fairly recently considered by Parliament, in 1957 when the Coal Mining (Subsidence) Act was passed. The difficulty would be that if one extended the amount that could be recovered to consequential damage, including personal injury, it would place an immense burden on the coal industry and the National Coal Board and would produce very great difficulties of definition.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that when the Departmental Committee on Mining Subsidence, on which I was privileged to serve, some years ago investigated the problem of mining subsidence we were aware of these possibilities of consequential claims for damage, and, in order that the human relationship between the National Coal Board and people living in mining areas may be put right, is it not about time that we somehow or other evolved an answer to this admittedly very difficult problem? I sincerely hope that the hon. Gentleman will not just turn this aside.

I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman for the way he has acknowledged the difficulties. If he wishes to make any representations to my right hon. Friend, I can assure him that they will be looked at. However, I am equally obliged to say that we have to be careful not to put a quite intolerable burden on the National Coal Board.

While I acknowledge the difficulties and appreciate the burden on the National Coal Board in this respect, may I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he does not think it wrong that citizens who live in mining areas should have to suffer, in addition to the discomfort anyway caused by mining subsidence, the financial loss where serious subsidence damages their property, which is not very frequent or widespread?

I cannot add to what I have said.

asked the Minister of Power what research is at present being carried out into dust conditions in coal-mining; how many persons are concerned in this research; what funds are devoted annually to the purpose; and what results have been obtained so far in regard to the causes and incidence of pneumoconiosis, chronic bronchitis and emphysema among mineworkers.

About 220 people are employed in the research into dust conditions in coalmining undertaken by the National Coal Board, the Medical Research Council and my Department. The cost is around £450,000 a year. Information concerning the work is published from time to time.

Can the hon. Gentleman say that a definitive report will be made to Parliament about the results of this research and, in particular, the connection between the incidence of chronic bronchitis and emphysema among mine-workers and the occupational hazards to which they are subject? Is he not aware that there is rising public opinion in mining and other areas that chronic bronchitis and emphysema ought to be recognised for National Insurance payments? Will he not issue a definitive report as a result of the research?

I should not like the hon. Gentleman to think that there was any doubt in my mind about the importance of the problem. On the other hand, research into pneumoconiosis, because of the nature of the disease itself, is necessarily very slow. Certainly as soon as any clear results are available from the research, they will be made available. As I said, information is published from time to time by the bodies which are responsible for research work, and I ought to make it clear that the research work by the different bodies is coordinated.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a growing belief in mining areas and among mineworkers in particular that men who are disabled by dust diseases and who had formerly expected to be certificated as suffering from pneumoconiosis are now being said to suffer from chronic bronchitis and emphysema, and that these men and their families are convinced that the disability arises from their occupation? Is it not time some further steps were taken to give adequate compensation to men who are so badly disabled in the nation's service?

It is not yet known whether exposure to dust is a significant factor in causing the diseases of bronchitis and emphysema. The problem of diagnosis is frequently raised in the National Joint Pneumoconiosis Committee of which I am the chairman, and was raised at the last meeting. I am always prepared to look at the matter again to see if difficulties can be overcome.

asked the Minister of Power what is the present payment per year by the National Coal Board in standing interest charges.

The N.C.B.'s outstanding liabilities to the Exchequer fluctuate from year to year and interest payments vary accordingly. Interest payable for 1963 was about £41 million.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that my estimate for the year before was £43 million? What pressure is he bringing upon that troglodyte organisation, the Treasury, to formulate a new policy towards this burden on the National Coal Board? Is it not time, with these pits closed, that assets now dead should no longer receive a 3 per cent. interest? If the coal industry is to be given the chance it deserves, there should be a new approach by the Treasury and the right hon. Gentleman's Department. Is he considering ways and means of cutting out the dead wood of worn-out assets?

The greater number of the assets on which interest is payable are alive and not dead.

Has the right hon. Gentleman ever considered a capital reconstruction of the industry?

The subject has been considered.

asked the Minister of Power why he will not issue a general direction to all gas boards prohibiting the practice of general managers circularising employees in their departments on behalf of provident associations, with a view to promoting the interests of private medicine.

Because there is no good reason for doing so.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his colleague the Minister of Health has as his policy that the National Health Service should give a service unsurpassed whether one pays for it or not, and that the circular which his Minister sent to the north-west region permitting it to organise fee-paying services is likely to undermine the whole principle of the National Health Service? Is it not his right hon. Friend's job to support the policy of the Minister of Health.

Questions relating to the National Health Service are entirely matters for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health. I have no information whatever that employees of any boards are under pressure to contribute to these schemes. I agree that it would be wrong if they were under such pressure. If the hon. Gentleman has any evidence of that, I shall be glad to look at it.

Is it not wrong for one Government Department to undermine the work of another? Is not the organisation of these groups within a Government-sponsored section in the Ministry of Power an example of bad co-operation between two Departments? Is it not the job of his Department to co-ordinate with the Ministry of Health on this?

I understand that the policy of my right hon. Friend towards these schemes is one of benevolent neutrality. It is not the intention or policy of my Department to undermine the policy of the Ministry of Health.

Would not the hon. Gentleman at least go so far as to say that he considers it inappropriate for a nationalised board even to promote the interests of private medicine in this way, which is what happened in a case about which he knows?

I do not think that it would be right to interfere with the normal freedom of a nationalised board any more than with that of private industry.

asked the Minister of Power what consultations he has had with the Central Electricity Generating Board on the Powell Report; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Power what discussions he has had with the Central Electricity Generating Board on the kind of reactor to be used in the next series of nuclear power stations.

The Central Electricity Generating Board has been fully consulted during the consideration of the future nuclear power programme.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is some mystery surrounding the Powell Report and the Government decision on the next generation of nuclear power stations? Will he give an assurance that, when the Government's decision is announced, a White Paper will be published enabling hon. Members to know the views of the Central Electricity Generating Board and the Atomic Energy Authority whereby we may judge whether the decision is right or not? Can we have the maximum information about this? At the moment, we have none.

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, on several occasions in reply to Questions recently, has said that a statement will be made.

This House is being continually frustrated by lack of information not only on this subject but on many others. If we have to work in the dark we are not able to criticise effectively what the Government are doing. This will be a very serious decision affecting the nation's power supplies for generations. It is, therefore, important to get the decision right. We must have the information available so that we can form our opinion of the efficacy and intelligence of the Government's eventual decision.

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's concern, but I ask him to await the statement.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that it would be extremely useful to have a technical report as well as the statement? Someone will try to make a general analysis of the information and the House will be in some difficulty if such technical information is not available. We should be much better placed if it were made available to us.

I appreciate my hon. Friend's concern, but I ask him also to await the statement.

asked the Minister of Education if he will give the estimated numbers of boy and girl school leavers in The Hartlepools at Easter.

Information provided by the local education authorities concerned suggests that the number may be about 500, divided roughly equally between boys and girls.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that these figures are higher from time to time and that the number of school leavers is about to increase? Will he consult his right hon. Friends with a view to attracting further industry to the area to take up the slack in employment? We never seem to catch up. We still have 6·3 per cent. unemployment.

I am not responsible for industry. I recently visited the North-East to discuss the contribution which the education service could make to solving the problem of unemployment among young people. As my hon. and gallant Friend will recall, I included in last year's building programme a technical college for The Hartlepools. I hope that might provide greater opportunities for school leavers.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with the arrangements for advising school leavers in areas of this kind, where the normal prospects of employment are not good and where particularly careful advice may be needed to make sure that we do not waste ability?

I am obliged to the hon. Lady for saying that. This was one of the matters I ventured to discuss on my visit two months ago. I agree that this is a subject which my Department should always be bringing to the attention of the local authorities.

What work is done by voluntary bodies or the churches to help my right hon. Friend's Department in relation to school leavers?

I cannot answer that without notice, but my hon. Friend is quite right in suggesting that the churches and voluntary bodies are taking a very great interest in this matter.

asked the Minister of Education if he will sponsor through the Ministry of Education research fund a number of small research projects in co-operation with Her Majesty's inspectors of schools, local education authorities, institutes of education with constituent training colleges, and with practising teachers, whoshould be consulted at an early stage.

I am currently supporting a wide variety of projects from my research fund, and will send the hon. Member a list. I am ready to consider any proposals put to me, or where necessary, to initiate projects.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I am grateful for the document, 'Provision for Research ", which he has sent to me? Is it not important that the classroom teacher should be able to initiate research and not just be restricted to carrying it out because it has been brought from above by an inspector? Will he consider the means of bringing to the notice of classroom teachers the results of research already taking place? Unless it gets to them it is wasted.

I would not rule out the possibility of classroom teachers initiating research. Many of them are now associated with much of the research going on. For example, one line of research is into streaming in primary schools and whether it is necessary or even desirable. I agree that it is most important to make sure that the classroom teachers know of the research carried out, and we ensure this through bulletins and other means.

asked the Minister of Education how many students who have been to, a teachers' training college have been admitted to read for a university degree during the last three academic years; and what steps he will take to facilitate application by certificated teachers for internal and external degree courses.

The information asked for in the first part of the Question is not available. It is for the universities to determine the conditions upon which they will admit students for degree courses. They will no doubt be aware of the suggestion of the Robbins Committee that universities should allow students who transfer from a training college certificate course some remission of their normal requirements.

As one who, as a practising teacher, read for an external degree, may I assure the right hon. Gentleman that a great many impediments are put in the way of certificated teachers who try to do this? Is he satisfied with his Answer? Does not he think that a positive policy by the Ministry and suggestions to the universities of ways in which they might facilitate this development would be a good thing? Does not he think that a certain amount of research on the subject might be feasible?

It may well be that some research would be feasible but this is part of a larger question concerning the whole future of the training colleges and the system of full-time higher education. If the hon. Gentleman would care to discuss this with me some time, I should be pleased to do so. This is too big a subject to deal with fully at Question Time.

There is the further important matter of the extent to which teachers, during their teaching careers, tend to become out of date. There is a strong case for further degree study.

It also raises the question of in-service training, which we are considering carefully.

asked the Minister of Education when the proposed new school at School Lane, Coven, Staffordshire, will be begun; when completion can be expected; how many additional places will be provided; and whether he is aware that the expansion of population in recent years has created an urgent problem of overcrowding in the existing schools.

No project to provide new premises has been requested by the Staffordshire local education authority for its 1965–68 major building programme. I understand that it is keeping the position under review but does not regard present or expected numbers at St. Paul's School as justifying a high priority.

May I take it from that that if there is any lag in the provision of essential school places in this area, it is coming from the county authority and not the right hon. Gentleman's Ministry.

The hon. Lady is quite right. It has not been included in the proposals put to me by the local authority. The programmes for 1965–66 and 1966–67 are about to be announced. Perhaps I may say that the Friarswood project, about which the hon. Lady's hon. Friend has so often asked me, will be included and it will be open to the authority to put additional proposals for 1967–68 if it so wishes; but at the moment, no proposal for the project mentioned in the Question has been made.

asked the Minister of Education if he will make a statement on the educational possibilities of local sound broadcasting.

asked the Minister of Education, in the light of the experiments in local broadcasting two years ago which showed the potential of this medium in the field of education, if he will consult the Postmaster-General concerning the early setting up of a number of local broadcasting stations for educational purposes.

asked the Minister of Education what co-operation is being offered by his Department in experiments in local sound broadcasting for educational purposes.

I would refer the hon. Members to the Answer given by my right hon. Friend the Postmaster-General to the hon. Member for Leeds, South (Mr. Merlyn Rees) on Thursday, 19th March.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we are not asking him for the views of the Postmaster-General on local sound broadcasting as such, but for a statement on what he believes his Ministry's attitude ought to be to the educational aspect of local sound broadcasting? As it would be possible to set up these stations for a capital cost of less than £20,000 each, does he not think that this could make a big contribution? After three years since the B.B.C. first put up the suggestion, surely he has some view about whether he supports it.

As the hon. Gentleman's own supplementary question makes plain, technical considerations are involved and I cannot make a statement until my discussions with my right hon. Friend on the technical aspects are complete. We are considering a variety of proposals for experiments in educational broadcasting which, I agree, have important educational implications, but we must get the technical matters thrashed out first.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman recognise that there are certain experiments which could be carried out with existing stations without technical changes and that it is most desirable that, while he is carrying on with what may be lengthy discussions on new forms of local sound broadcasting, he should at least encourage the B.B.C. to proceed with what we are given to understand is now possible without making any technical changes whatsoever?

I was considering the technical implications of what is under discussion. I am very keen that we should make rapid progress in this matter and I hope that I or my successor will be able to make a statement on this subject before too long.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the B.B.C. is willing and able—it claims—to go ahead now with the formation of at least six local stations, which would be primarily concerned with educational activity, and even with schemes to provide extramural classes complementary to the actual broadcasting?

I cannot go further than I have this morning, but I take note of the feeling in the House and hope that it will be possible to make a statement on these matters before long.

asked the Minister of Education when Sunderland's technical college will be recognised as a college of advanced technology.

I am fully aware of the progress made by the Sunderland Technical College, but in the light of the Robbins Report the designation of another C.A.T. would not be possible, since this would imply, in effect, the designation of a new university.

Will my right hon. Friend take it from me that this is still altogether unsatisfactory? The North-East has one college of advanced technology. Sunderland has the largest college of such a type in the country, nearly four times as big as one of the universities, and is providing courses of a very high standard. Is not this a decision which cannot go on being postponed, for postponement destroys the moral fibre of those who are teaching and working, in these colleges? Is not this something which needs urgent attention?

When I was last in the North-East, I explained fully, by all the media available to me, why, in the light of the Robbins Report, the designation of another C.A.T. would not be possible, and I was also careful to emphasise the large amount of first degree work being carried out at Sunderland and Rutherford College; and the Constantine College at Middlesbrough. The fact remains that at this moment it is not possible to designate another C.A.T.

asked the Minister of Education what conversations he has had with the Saudi Arabian Government about the possible supply of English teachers to Saudi Arabia.

None, Sir.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that people able to teach English are needed in Saudi Arabia? As that country is now looking to this country for friendship and support, is not this something in which my right hon. Friend's Ministry should take an initiative?

I refer my hon. Friend to an answer given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on 23rd March.

asked the Minister of Education, in view of the fact that recommendation 104 of the Robbins Committee stated that the work for adult education undertaken by extra-mural departments and the Workers Educational Association should be encouraged, if he is aware that his grant arrangements for 1964–65 are acting as a discouragement to the responsible bodies; and if he will take action to remedy this situation.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to the Member for Bradford, South (Mr. George Craddock) on 19th March.

When the right hon. Gentleman goes around the country and meets responsible bodies and takes public meetings, he always says that this is an activity which it is very important to develop. Has he changed his mind, or is it just that his deeds do not match his words?

I have not changed my mind and there will not be a standstill on grants to responsible bodies next year. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, I regard the highest priority in this respect the building programme for long-term residential colleges, to which the hon. Gentleman rightly referred me last year. I made no apology for continuing to make that the first priority for the future. But we certainly cannot judge this over one single year. There was a definite step forward in the grants to the responsible bodies last year, and I hope that those concerned will not be too easily discouraged because they have not had a further increase in the number of tutors for the very next year.

But surely the sum of money required to allow responsible bodies to go on naturally developing is very small, and there is now a check. As the Robbins Report makes a very strong recommendation that this work should be encouraged, surely the right hon. Gentleman should struggle a bit harder to get some more money.

I thought that the increase in money which I was proposing for this year was reasonable and a further increase in the number of tutors in the very next year was perhaps not something this year to which I should give the highest priority. I must ask the House on this matter to look at this over a term of years. During the whole of this Parliament, the total grants for adult education have risen considerably.

On a point of order. Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Education what steps he is taking to ensure that all five-year-old children in Middlesbrough will be able to start school in the term beginning at Easter.

The Middlesbrough local education authority assures me that all children who reach the age of five before the beginning of the summer term will be able to start school in that term.

Would the right hon. Gentleman accept from me that Middlesbrough Corporation is a progressive authority and that the education committee is anxious that the rising-fives should also have an opportunity of going to school, and that if he would cooperate, this could be done?

One must recognise that there is bound to be very great pressure on staffing standards in infant schools. It may be that a number of authorities who have hitherto done so would not find it possible to admit all the rising-fives. Middlesbrough will be able to meet its responsibilities for children of statutory school age and I hope that it will also be reasonably satisfied with the school building programme which will reach it shortly.

asked the Minister of Education how many French-speaking assistants are currently teaching in English schools; how many are French, Belgian and Swiss, respectively; and how these numbers compare with those of the previous year.

1,003 French speaking assistants are currently teaching in English and Welsh schools of whom three are Swiss and the rest French. In 1962–63, there were 937, of whom six were Swiss, three Belgians and 928 French.

No progress has been made in increasing the number of Belgian, French and Swiss assistants. Has the right hon. Gentleman done nothing to deal with the difficulties which I raised with his predecessor more than a couple of years ago? Is that why there has not been an increase in the number of Belgian and Swiss assistants?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that I have made it known to both the Belgian and Swiss authorities that we would welcome candidates from their universities, but Belgian and Swiss universities apparently neither expect nor encourage undergraduates to spend a year in this country. There are difficulties and I have done my best about them.

asked the Minister of Education what steps he is taking to see that the anti-litter campaign is supported in schools and colleges.

Schools and colleges are already aware of the importance of this matter, and I do not think that any special action is needed on my part.

Could not the Ministry keep in touch rather more with the Keep Britain Tidy campaign to see if more could be done? Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that a walk down any high street would convince him or anybody else that most of our schoolchildren are set an appalling example by their parents in these matters? Would he not agree that schools could do more to make a major impact on the standard of cleanliness and tidiness both in our towns and countryside?

This is a matter which is best left to the schools and colleges and local education authorities. I was glad to see a recent article in The Times which said that there were now nearly 2,000 Keep Britain Tidy school committees, but this would not be a satisfactory subject for an educational circular.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that all the education in the world will be of very little value unless local authorities provide receptacles for litter? Litter is to be seen lying all over the place, and particularly in stations, where people leave their tickets on the ground—but there are hardly any receptacles in which they can be placed, anyway. Will he consult his right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government on the matter?

It is not the responsibility of the Minister of Education to put litter bins in stations.

Does not my right hon. Friend think that perhaps the best thing to do would be to persuade Giles, the cartoonist, to lead a campaign?

I think that the best thing that we can do is to move on to the next Question.

asked the Minister of Education what arrangements are made to grant recognition to a teacher who is fully qualified, but who has obtained these qualifications by means of part-time study.

Generally speaking, university degrees and specialist qualifications acceptable for the award of qualified teacher status are so accepted whether taken through full-time or part-time study, but teacher-training qualifications are only accepted for this purpose if attained through full-time training. If the hon. Lady has any particular case in mind I shall be glad to discuss it with her. I am reviewing the justification for this limitation.

I am glad to hear that the right hon. Gentleman is reviewing his matter. Does not he agree that, as the Kelsall Report stresses so strongly, many women wish to take part-time work only in the teaching profession, and that it is quite illogical to put up an insuperable barrier by insisting on full-time training?

The hon. Lady is correct in saying that it was the Kelsall Report in particular that made me think that we should look at this matter again.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that, after a five-week campaign, the police in West Ham ascertained that in the Forest Gate area alone there were 430 vehicles without licences or insurance or both; and whether, as the practice of using unlicensed vehicles and leaving them on the roads is growing, he will advise the Commissioner of Police in the Metropolitan area to initiate a London campaign similar to that just carried out in West Ham.

The cases which the hon. Member refers to came to light as a result of a review of standing vehicles which was considered necessary in the Forest Gate area. The Commissioner does not consider that a general review of this kind is necessary for the Metropolitan Police District as a whole, but special action is taken in particular areas when local circumstances make it necessary.

I congratulate the Forest Gate Police on the excellence of their activities, but is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are literally thousands of these derelict cars, vans and other vehicles, which have not only become eyesores but which are uninsured and untaxed? Is he further aware that children play about in them, and that there was recently a case of a child being killed in this way? Does not he think that if the law provides that these vehicles should be taxed and insured if they are on the road, the police ought to enforce the law? Will not he ask the police to consider this matter again in other areas, so that they can be as progressive as the police of West Ham?

The police review in the Forest Gate area arose because of the large and recently much-increased num- ber of vehicles left parked and unused. It was not primarily concerned with taxation and insurance matters I think that this is best left to the police. The Commissioner can, if he thinks fit, issue general directions to the forces, or he can leave it to local officers to take special action locally. I am grateful to the hon. Member for the congratulations that he has expressed to the police in the Forest Gate area.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the police have to waste many hundreds, if not thousands, of valuable man-hours trying to trace the owners of these vehicles before they will authorise local authorities to take them away? In those circumstances, will he alter the present arrangements so that the necessary steps can be taken within a much shorter time to tow these vehicles off the streets?

This is a large question As I said in my original Answer, the Commissioner has suggested to local taxation authorities certain changes in procedure for reporting unlicensed vehicles which will enable the police to give greater assistance to local authorities.