asked the Postmaster-General whether he will arrange for the limit on weekly withdrawals from Post Office savings accounts to be raised from £10 to £20 so as to allow wages paid by cheque to be more easily encashed, and for deposits to be withdrawable in less than eight days where a cheque from a depositor's employer has been paid in.

To raise the limit for withdrawals on demand would greatly increase the amount of losses by fraud. As regards the second part of the Question, since the purpose of the Post Office Savings Bank is to provide for savings and not for current-account business, I am sorry could not justify the elaborate special procedures which would be required to enable deposits by cheque to be cashed more quickly.

Should not the Post Office be more willing today to help in the payment of wages by cheque? Should not it be quite possible to make an arrangement with a local firm which is using this method of paying wages so that the cheques can be encashed through the Post Office and more than £10 can be drawn out at any one time?

We have looked at that possibility, but it is not possible within the framework of the Post Office Savings Bank. It would, of course require Post Office Giro and, as my hon. Friend has explained on more than one occasion, we do not think that a venture of that sort would be self-supporting. As regards frauds, there is no doubt that if the limit were to be raised frauds would increase. Our losses last year amounted to about £130,000.

asked the Postmaster-General what is his policy regarding the refitting of cable ships; and how much work of this nature has been undertaken in the North-East in the last three years.

Cable ships have an annual refit, the work being undertaken by firms familiar with their specialised structure and equipment. Two of the four Post Office cable ships—"Monarch" and "Ariel"—have had their annual refits done in the North-East, in each of the last three years.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply and appreciating the technical difficulties involved in the refitting of cable ships, would he not contemplate channelling more of this work to the North-East, especially to Grey (Tees) Limited in my constituency, where unemployment is still 6 per cent.? Will my hon. Friend look at the matter again?

We have, as I said, four cable ships and at the moment these ships each go to an area of relatively high unemployment. In fact, the other two ships, "Iris" and "Alert", are refitted on the River Clyde. I think that this is a fair balance for the four ships which we own.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is satisfied that the removal of the head office of the Post Office Savings Bank to Glasgow will not mean that all the money deposited is deemed to be located in Scotland, and that if anyone subsequently dies leaving money in the Post Office Savings Bank and probate or letters of administration are obtained in England or Wales, the grant will not have to be revealed in the Scottish court before the money can be distributed; and whether he will make a statement.

I am advised that there is no reason why the removal of the principal administrative office of the Bank to Glasgow should have the result which my hon. Friend suggests. At present the Bank pays out the deposits of a deceased person to a personal representative producing a grant issued in any part of the United Kingdom without requiring any grant to be resealed and it will continue to do so after the move to Glasgow.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his reply will be received with great relief by trustees, executors, and legal advisers throughout England, and not least by those Welsh investors who do not relish the thought of having their savings in the hands of a country like Scotland—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh"]—which is so backward that it does not recognise the legal existence of Wales? Will he give the widest possible publicity to his reply so that investors may not be discouraged from increasing their savings in the future?

The answer to my hon. Friend is, generally speaking, yes, although I must confess that I have inordinate difficulty in understanding what this is all about.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT the factors which conditioned his approach to, and his breakdown of, the merits and demerits of Glasgow, Liverpool and Tees-side as places put on the short list for the dispersal of the Post Office Savings Bank from London, as given to the staff side of the Post Office Departmental Whitley Council.

The main factors were: a sizeable location right away from London with high unemployment, an adequate supply of local staff, good housing and educational facilities, and adequate communications with other parts of the country.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the operational requirements did favour Tees-side, and can he explain why it was that at the joint discussions with the staff side, at which the national factor was introduced, he completely ignored the views of the staff side? Does he not regard this as imperilling staff consultation, particularly in the field of Whitleyism, which has gone on for so many years without any great difficulties?

I agree, as I have said to the hon. Gentleman before, that Tees-side offered many advantages both to the staff and to the Bank, and I agree that Glasgow did have disadvantages in some respects, but the really decisive factor here was the high level of unemployment in Glasgow at 5·2 per cent. as compared with 3·9 per cent. on Tees-side, and the 5·2 per cent. represented a far greater number of people.

asked the Postmaster-General what further representations he has now received from interested parties about his decision to transfer the Post Office Savings Bank to Glasgow in preference to Tees-side.

I would refer the hon. Member to my Answer to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough, West (Dr. Bray) on 7th April. I have also had representations from hon. Members and others on behalf of certain local authorities which are disappointed with the choice of Glasgow, and also on behalf of a few individual members of the Savings Bank staff.

Does not the Postmaster-General think that it is very undesirable what has happened in this case should happen in the future? Is it not wrong that high hopes should be built up in a locality that a service of this kind will be stationed there and those high hopes should then be disappointed? Would he not agree that, in addition to a long list of reasons which he has given this afternoon for the Post Office Savings Bank going to Glasgow in preference to Tees-side, there is one more outstanding reason, and that is that there are more marginal seats in Glasgow than there are on Tees-side?

It is, of course, perfectly understandable that there should be disappointment on Tees-side, and, indeed, in other parts of the country, but not at any time did I give any indication that I or my colleagues in the Government had come down in favour of Tees-side. I can certainly disabuse the hon. Gentleman's mind about the decision being a political one. If one thinks in terms of marginal seats, the Post Office Savings Bank would have gone to Liverpool.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the people of Scotland, and particularly the people of Glasgow, are very well satisfied with his decision? May I on behalf of them congratulate him on having had the courage of his convictions and done something sensible and wise in Scotland?

asked the Postmaster-General what assessment he made of the cost of transferring the Post Office Savings Bank to Glasgow and to Tees-side respectively.

None, Sir. Any difference in the relative costs would not really be a material factor.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the discussions that have taken place between his Department and the American Satellite Communication Corporation regarding the development of a global satellite communication system, specifying the British commitment in this proposed venture.

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to last week's discussions between representatives of the European, United States and Canadian Governments. This was an exchange of view on the many problems involved in the creation of a world system of satellite communications. Good progress has been made. We have as yet made no commitments, but if we can secure acceptance of conditions as indicated in my reply of 26th February to the hon. Member, the United Kingdom would be willing to provide up to £15 millions towards the capital cost of a world system.

Can the right hon. Gentleman inform the House what we have offered during the course of these discussions, other than facilities for ground stations; to what extent he thinks that British industry will benefit from entry into this venture; whether the Russian interest, which was shown last week, is really serious, and to what extent it may affect our interests?

The principles to which the United Kingdom has been working in this field art, first of all, to take a positive part in the design of the system when it comes, to share in its ownership, to play a full part in the management of the system, and finally, to have the opportunity, as the system is expanded, to provide satellites, launchers and any other equipment which may be necessary. As regards the Russians, they have not, as the hon. Gentleman knows, taken part in these recent discussions with the Americans. Frankly, I am not aware of their interest.

Can my right hon. Friend give an assurance to the House that, even assuming we have a successful agreement with the American Satellite Communication Corporation, in the subsequent phase of this development British industry will have a substantial part to play in this important development?

Yes. I think it is only fair to say that in the initial stages the system is bound to be largely of American construction, but we are determined that a way must be left open to British industry to supply material to the system as soon as it is able to do so.

asked the Postmaster-General what would be the weekly extra cost to his Department of meeting the wage demands of the postmen over and above what he has already offered them; and what estimate he has made of the probable cost to the Post Office of the threatened one-day token strike and fortnight's ban on overtime.

The Union of Post Office Workers has made no specific claim on behalf of postmen, although they clearly hope for more than 4 per cent. this year. As to the second part of the Question, the effects of strike action are too unpredictable for me to estimate how much it would cost the Post Office. I am hoping anyway that such action can be avoided.

asked the Postmaster-General, in view of the rejection by the postmen of the terms of a solution to the dispute proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and bearing in mind the need to maintain the good labour relations in the Post Office service, if he will now agree to accept the postmen's request for an interim rise and an inquiry into their wage level in relation to other comparable occupations.

As the House knows, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer and I made a further proposal to the union yesterday. We have discussed it with it this morning. We are very much hoping that the union will accept this proposal.

Is the Postmaster-General aware that everyone will be relieved if the Government's initiative results in a peaceful settlement of this dispute? In that event, may I ask why the Government did not agree to this inquiry right at the beginning? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Government have gained no credit from the way in which they have handled this dispute with an essentially peaceable body of men?

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman's appreciation of the situation is anything like accurate. I think that the House will agree with me that, certainly at this stage, it would be most unwise to add to what I have said.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will install a stamp cancelling machine at Bala, Merioneth, Post Office.

No, Sir.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for that very exhaustive reply, may I ask him whether he will take into account that all prepaid mail posted at Bala is sent to Corwen to be stamped, so that the figures which he has received from the local offices are incorrect?

Of course, the pre-paid mail obviously does not have to be dealt with by a cancelling machine because the cancellation has already been done. In fact, the amount of posted correspondence would not justify installing a machine in this case.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will upgrade the present post office of Bala, Merioneth, and give it Crown Office status.

No, Sir. The existing office is providing adequate service and we should not be justified in making this change.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a special stamp issue to mark the opening of the Forth Road Bridge later this year.

Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friend has decided that the opening of this bridge will constitute a current event of outstanding national importance fully warranting a special stamp issue. The denominations will be 3d. and 6d. The date of issue will be announced later.

While warmly thanking my hon. Friend for that welcome though, I admit, somewhat unexpected reply, may I ask whether he is aware that this decision will cause universal satisfaction throughout Scotland?

Will the hon. Gentleman agree that the proceeds from these issues of stamps should go towards making the bridge toll-free?

There is one major consideration which would prevent that, and that is that the Post Office can do with the money.

asked the Postmaster-General what proportion of dialled telephone calls fail to connect first time.

Excluding failures due to number engaged, no reply, or misdialling, the present average figure for local and trunk calls combined, is just over 3 per cent.

Is the Minister aware that there is a widespread public feeling that this is perhaps higher than it should be? Will he take steps to obtain some international comparisons so that we can see how well we are doing in this respect?

I can tell the hon. Gentleman and the House that there has been a very substantial improvement during the last few months, and I am absolutely confident that this improvement will continue.

How does my right hon. Friend account for the fact that on dialling Darlington 2811 this morning I got a quite different number in Newcastle?

asked the Postmaster-General when the facilities at telephone exchanges where dialling from London is only possible to the local exchange will be extended so that the exchange and number can be dialled; and what are the exchanges in the South-Western area within 20 miles of London where the facilities are at present so limited.

The facilities will be extended progressively over the next few years as the exchanges concerned are converted from manual to automatic working. Most of the conversions will be completed by the end of 1966, and the remainder by 1970. I will, with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the names of the exchanges concerned in the South-West Telephone Area of London.

May we take it that all the conversions to dialling will be completed by 1970, irrespective of whether the exchanges are manual or partly manual and partly automatic?

Yes, that is our aim. Those exchanges which still have to be changed over are fairly new manual exchanges, but they will all be completed by 1970.

asked the Postmaster-General how many applications for telephone installations were outstanding at the last convenient date; and the average waiting period in England and Wales and in Scotland.

Leaving aside orders under inquiry or being met, there were 44,000 applications outstanding in the United Kingdom on 31st March, 1964.

The composition of the waiting list is constantly changing, and I am sorry that we cannot give a reliable average waiting time.

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman cannot state the relative waiting period as between Scotland and England and Wales, although I believe that the waiting period in Scotland is much longer. Can he indicate whether the Postmaster-General still adheres to his assurance that the backlog of orders for telephone installations will have been met by 1966?

That is our aim and I see no reason why we should not fulfil it. As to the waiting list, I know of no major difference between Scotland and England. The figure represents about 0·79 per cent. of the total number of working lines, but, as I have said, we hope to clear the whole lot by an early date.

Would my hon. Friend not agree that this is a rather negative Question, since it does not show the number of installations which have been completed in recent years?

It has been a major problem that we have had to cater for ever-increasing demands for telephones and, at the same time, try to reduce the waiting lists. We have made terrific strides, taking into account the additional demand, which is still continuing.

asked the Postmaster-General how many telephone subscribers questioned the accuracy of their accounts during each of the years 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962 and 1963; and in how many cases the complaints were found to be justified in each of these years.

I am sorry the information is not available.

Naturally, I am very much disappointed with the reply that the hon. Gentleman has given. On the basis of the number of complaints which I have received in my constituency, may I ask whether the hon. Gentleman agrees that complaints concerning accounts represent a high percentage of the complaints from telephone subscribers, who blame the system which is used in the exchanges for the recording of calls as being the prime cause of the discrepancy between what they claim to be the amounts incurred by them and the amount demanded by the Post Office?

The major difficulty is that most of the queries which are made concerning the accuracy of accounts are made by telephone and it would be difficult to keep a record of them. The question of deciding whether complaints are justifiable cannot be established as, very often, subscribers are given the benefit of the doubt in the interests of good relations. Obviously, the recording system is not perfect, but we hope that we can get a system which will accurately record calls as well as keep a check on people who consistently complain, so that we have an accurate record of the number of calls over a period.

asked the Postmaster-General if the committee studying the economics of Post Office telephone kiosks has yet reported; and if he will make a statement.

The study to which my right hon. Friend referred in his reply to the hon. Member for Barnsley (Mr. Mason) on 18th November is being made in the ordinary course of Departmental work. We do not expect its full results to be available until later this year.

I am much obliged to the hon. Gentleman, but could he give the assurance that the motive behind the study is not to reduce the number of telephone kiosks in the rural areas?

The motive of the study is to try to categorise kiosks properly so that we can know just exactly what the income from kiosks is compared with the social responsibilities which we have, but there is no basic intention of reducing the number of rural kiosks.

asked the Postmaster-General how many applications for telephone installations are outstanding in Clydebank, Bearsden, Milngavie, Kirkintilloch and the new town of Cumbernau1d.

Leaving aside orders under inquiry or in course of being met, the numbers of applications outstanding, on 31st March, in the five places mentioned by the hon. Member were 1, 32, nil, 49 and 52.

In thanking the hon. Gentleman for the letter which I received from him about the situation in Cumbernauld, may I point out that there is a very serious situation there? There are 49 applicants, and some have been waiting a very long time for their telephones. Furthermore, is he also aware of the difficulty about kiosks? Will he please speed up the process and get into contact with the New Town Development Corporation to see whether the difficulties with the contractors can be resolved?

As I explained to the hon. Gentleman, in this case we are installing a temporary exchange to try to overcome the immediate problems, and we shall certainly keep moving as fast as we can

asked the Postmaster-General if he will now state the system to be adopted by Great Britain for a colour television service.

asked the Postmaster-General if he has completed his study of the Television Advisory Committee's Report on Colour Television; and if he will now make a statement on the colour system to be adopted and when it is likely to be introduced.

The Television Advisory Committee, which includes representatives of the B.B.C., I.T.A. and the radio industry, has recommended the introduction of a regular colour television service in 1967. It has also advised me that, in view of the desirability of avoiding a unilateral decision which might adversely affect the export of colour components to Europe and the easy exchange of colour programmes, a final decision on the system to be employed should not be taken until the C.C.I.R. meeting to be held in April, 1965, but that if that meeting fails to agree on a common system the United Kingdom should adopt the system of its choice.

I have considered this advice in the knowledge that the B.B.C. and the radio industry now take the view that a colour service could not in any case begin to operate until the end of 1966 or the beginning of 1967 even if a decision were to be taken now. If the decision is not taken until April 1965, it will still be possible to begin a colour service early in 1967, and on this clear understanding, I have decided to accept the advice of the Television Advisory Committee.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that while there may well be a case for waiting for a unified European system, nevertheless the announcement which he has just made will be received with keen disappointment by some of our leading manufacturers, who have for some time been geared to go ahead? Does not my right hon. Friend think that in this case there is a good reason for Britain showing the lead to the rest of Europe? Does not this also mean that colour television will be long delayed in starting in this country?

The trouble is that if this country were to take a unilateral decision at this point in time, as we could do if we thought it wise, we would be in danger of being out of step with all the nations of Western Europe, which undoubtedly would be damaging to the radio industry of this country. I should add that both the B.B.C. and the Indus- try, having taken a realistic look at the problem, do not feel that we could get either the transmission equipment or the receivers into operation much earlier than the end of 1966.

If we went ahead now with the development of N.T.S.C., which seems to be the colour system most favoured in this country, and the European countries went ahead later with either P.A.L. or S.E.C.A.M., exactly what would be the obstacles in our way? How would we be handicapped? Secondly, has the right hon. Gentleman any idea whether, when the Committee meets again in 1965, there will be any better prospect of success in getting European compatibility?

If we adopted, say, the American system now and the French, Germans and other Europeans adopt a different system in 12 months' time, the British radio industry would be under the handicap of not being able to export colour components to Europe and the B.B.C. and the I.T.A. would find it more difficult than otherwise would be the case to exchange programmes with European countries. I think that the prospect of getting agreement at next year's meeting is fairly good. I should like to emphasise that the Post Office pressed strongly for a decision at the meeting a couple of months ago.

May I ask my right hon. Friend whether the B.B.C. accepts his decision and whether he is saying that it will be technically impossible for the Corporation to initiate this service until 1967?

Yes. The B.B.C. and the I.T.A. are represented on the Television Advisory Committee and the report of this Committee was both unanimous and unequivocal.

Is it not true that whatever decision the Postmaster-General takes today, neither the B.B.C. nor I.T.A. could mount colour television before 1967? Having said that, is it not important that the right hon. Gentleman makes his decision fairly quickly?

Yes. What the hon. Member has said in the opening part of his supplementary question is perfectly true, as it is in the second part also.

asked the Postmaster-General what is his estimate of the increase in cost of a television licence which would be required to cover the cost of colour television broadcasts when they are approved.

An estimate in this form would be inappropriate. The B.B.C.'s finances are considered as a whole from time to time; and colour television is unlikely to start, as I have said, before 1967. Even then the cost will depend on the number of hours of colour television that can be mounted, both at the start, and progressively.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that colour television services are likely to cost three times as much as the black and white system and that broadcasting costs will also be very high, and is it not a little unfair to elderly people, when the cost of the licence is already rather heavy, that they should have to bear the cost of colour television which they will never wish to have or be able to buy?

Well, no doubt there is something in what my hon. Friend says, but I think it is the wish of the House and the country that we should embark upon colour television at the right moment.

Does not the information about costs bear out the fact that my right hon. Friend's decision for caution in this matter is right?

Yes, but is the right hon. Gentleman aware, on the question of the licence, that having given the B.B.C. the right to go ahead and develop B.B.C.2 he now appears to be stiffing this development by severely restricting its broadcasting hours, and that this is really more or less a political expedient in order to avoid a licence increase? Excluding commercial advertising, is the right hon. Gentleman giving any consideration at all to financing the B.B.C. or broadcasting or television development without necessarily increasing the licence fees?

This Question refers to colour television. It has nothing at all to do with B.B.C. financing or B.B.C.2.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will give a direction to the British Broadcasting Corporation under Section 14(4) of the Licence and Agreement to refrain from transmitting on sound party political broadcasts between the time signal and the regular time for news bulletins.

The arrangements for party political broadcasts are agreed between the leading political parties and the broadcasting authorities. The sound broadcasts my hon. Friend has in mind form part of these arrangements.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that the newspapers and the broadcasting authorities did a wonderful job in drawing the nation's attention to the elections for the county councils and the Greater London Council? For everyone who believes in democracy likes to see a high poll. On the other hand, is he aware that when one switches on at seven o'clock to listen to the news it is slightly aggravating to have to listen to a party political broadcast by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition? Is not news bulletin timing more or less sacrosanct? Why should it be gerrymandered in this way?

A great deal depends upon one's politics, I suppose; but the position here is that in agreement with the B.B.C. and the I.T.A. the major political parties fix the timing of these broadcasts, and my responsibility is limited simply to requiring the broadcasting authorities to refrain from going beyond those agreed arrangements.

asked the Postmaster-General when a third television programme will be made available to Scottish viewers.

The B.B.C. tells me that it hopes to start transmitting its new television programme in Central Scotland by about the end of next year.

While I am pleased to hear that the B.B.C., and not the advertising companies, is to transmit the third programme, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he can give an assurance that when the third programme is introduced into Scotland, the whole of Scotland will be able to receive television programmes just as well as the central belt can?

The B.B.C. tells me that it hopes to open a high-powered u.h.f. station in North-East Scotland towards the end of 1966, but it is not quite ready with its plans for other Scottish stations. As soon as it is, I will let the hon. Gentleman know.

asked the Postmaster-General what action he has taken to dissuade advertisers from making use of Radio "Caroline"

On three occasions during the past two years I have invited the attention of the principal advertising associations to reports of plans to establish broadcasting stations on ships—not "Caroline" specifically—outside territorial waters and I have sought their co-operation in dissuading their members from supporting such ventures. The answers they have given me have been encouraging.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that doubts are being expressed about the truthfulness of the statement which he made in the House last week? [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh"] Wait a minute. Will the right hon. Gentleman state specifically which representative organisations of advertisers have given him an assurance that they will tell their members not to broadcast on Radio "Caroline", and will he also say on what date he received those assurances? Will he make it quite clear whether or not the Advertising Association, the Incorporated Society of British Advertisers Ltd. and the Institute of Practitioners in Advertising are among the associations which have given him the assurance which he claims they have given?

There are three advertising associations with which the Post Office has been in contact over this matter—the Advertising Association, the Incorporated Society of British Advertisers Ltd. and the Institute of Practitioners in Advertising. The third organisation has, at our request, on three occasions circulated its members ex- pressing the Post Office point of view on advertising on pirate radio stations. I have no reason at all to suppose that any leading advertisers in this country will support that venture.

Will my right hon. Friend do nothing to deprive the people of East Anglia of the first decent radio programme they have had for a long time?

Is the Postmaster-General now able to reveal to the House the steps that he intends to take to discourage the permanent establishment of these pirate radio ships around our shores?

We are still examining the possibilities of legislation and are making a technical examination of the possibilities of jamming, although I shall have to proceed cautiously there.

Will the right hon. Gentleman use all his endeavours to see that no ex-Cabinet Ministers take time on this service to broadcast their views of their former colleagues or the methods by which they were sacked?

I understand that this vessel now has no flag or registration. What is the position regarding liability for seizure or other deterrent action on the high seas?

My understanding is that the Panamanian Government have withdrawn the ship's registration, which creates a number of very practical difficulties.

In view of the very unsatisfactory nature of the right hon. Gentleman's reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many buildings in the rural districts of Herefordshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Leicestershire and Shropshire have been provisionally listed, and how many have been statutorily listed, as of special architectural or historic interest.

I will, with permission, circulate the figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will send a circular to local planning authorities encouraging them to follow a policy of improving and enhancing land of negligible amenity value in green belts.

There is no need for further guidance. The point was made in the booklet "The Green Belts", which was sent to local authorities in 1962.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that the Government's green belt policy is directly leading to deterioration of green belt land because owners of scruffy land can make a good case for its being used for building, with a consequent phenomenal increase in value? Is he aware that one Middlesex farmer is using his land for car-breaking and that such practices will increase unless the right hon. Gentleman takes positive action?

I have no reason to think that the example quoted by the hon. Lady is a normal practice leading to planning approval. There is specific guidance on page 28 of the booklet I mentioned encouraging local authorities in the way she desires.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the booklet appears to be used as a ground for saying that the green belt must be reduced? Will he give a further assurance that nothing, of the sort is meant by it?

My hon. and learned Friend is thinking of another booklet, about which he has a Question down later.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs when he expects to make his decision on the report of his inspector on the public inquiry into the future status of Cheltenham.

The public local inquiry into objections to the Local Government Commission's proposals for Cheltenham was held only last month and I have not yet received the inspector's report. I cannot yet say when I will be ready to take a decision.

Will my right hon. Friend at least assure us that when he receives the inspector's report he will read it himself?

I do not think I need give any such assurance, even to my hon. Friend. I always read these reports.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will consider including the Sculthorpe Air Base, Norfolk, which will soon be vacated by the United States Air Force, in his proposals for new towns, in connection with his plans for the future of south-east England.

I have asked the local planning authorities for their views on the proposals in the South-East Study, and I shall consider any suggestions that they put forward for expansion at places not named in the Study. I understand, however, that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence for the Royal Air Force has not yet reached any decision on the future use of the airfield at Sculthorpe.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are 600 civilians employed at the base while the number of farm workers in the area continues to decline and there is no alternative employment? Is he further aware that it is considered likely that this base, with houses, buildings and installations valued at about £80 million, could form the basis of a new town and bring much-needed new industry into the area? Will he give careful consideration, in consultation with his colleagues concerned, to this very valuable site?

Subject to the decision of my right hon. Friend the Minister for Defence for the Royal Air Force, all these will be considerations for the local planning authority to take into account in the consultations I am having with them.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what action he is taking to improve standards of sound insulation in the construction of flat dwellings in the new housing programme; and to what extent these standards have been approved by the professional organisations concerned with sound insulation.

Sound insulation is one of the matters covered by the building regulations which my right hon. Friend the Minister of Public Building and Works will be making later this year. The various professional bodies concerned have been consulted.

As these new building regulations are to be published, will my hon. Friend give special attention to the question of noise in modern flats? Is he aware that there is a great deal of disquiet about the flimsy nature of these modern buildings, with noise issuing from one room to another? Will he also take into account the question of blocks of flats built near airports?

I am satisfied that the proposals will be very important and practical advances on the present position.

rose—

Order. The hon. Member for Leek (Mr. Harold Davies) knows that if the right hon. Gentleman who is addressing the Committee does not give way the hon. Member may not remain on his feet.

I am sorry not to give way, but I am trying to develop a consecutive argument and we will have plenty of time to study this point.

Turning to the private sector, in the construction industries, which are a key sector of the economy, output has risen fairly steadily since building controls ended in 1954, both because the labour force has increased and because output per head has improved. These industries are likely to be heavily loaded again this year and may have difficulty in meeting all demands. To deal with the increase in demand, productivity will have to be increased, since in conditions of full employment there is no prospect of large additions to the labour force.

The Government are co-operating with the construction industries in the development of measures designed to achieve this rise in output, particularly in such important fields as the introduction of new methods of construction, standardisation of components, training and research and development. I am sure that the National Building Agency, established by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Public Building and Works, will contribute significantly to securing the increased productivity which we need.

There are now signs of a substantial increase in the level of investment in manufacturing industry. The Committee will recall the very great improvements made last year in the system of capital allowances. I doubt whether, even now, the advantages available for new investment are fully appreciated. Quite apart from special concessions for firms operating in development districts, the general benefits are very striking. For example, a company investing in a computer gets 60 per cent. of the cost allowed against profits in the first year and over 100 per cent. in the first five. At the end of the day a company will have received tax relief of very nearly 70 per cent. of the total cost of that computer, or nearly £175,000 in tax relief on art outlay of £250,000.

Much emphasis is now placed, and rightly placed, on the importance of encouraging investment in advanced and often, therefore, expensive modern machinery and equipment. The figures I have just quoted show how effectively we have already provided such encouragement. I know of no country in the world that gives so great a tax incentive to the installation of modern equipment, and I believe that if it should be true that businessmen are, in any cases, still reluctant to buy the most modern machinery we must look beyond the tax system for the reasons.

Greater enterprise now brings greater rewards. No longer can it be said that the weight of taxation on industry here is greater than that on our industrial rivals. If our industry is to thrive it is right that enterprise and efficiency should be rewarded by higher profits. But the other side of the coin is to ensure that inefficiency and lack of enterprise suffer the appropriate penalty. Here the most effective means is the stimulation of competition. The measures recently announced and introduced by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Industry and Trade, designed to sweep away barriers to competition throughout the economy, are a vital and central part of the total picture.

Would the Chancellor give way this time?

No.

On a point of fact.

No. There will be plenty of opportunity for several days to debate anything I say this afternoon.

It is a misinterpretation of the Chancellor's own document. He would not know, because he has not read the damned thing.

Reading and understanding do not always march together.

As I have said, in the coming year all the components of demand will be expanding vigorously. To begin with exports, there is no doubt that the opportunity is there for another substantial increase this year in British exports. The American economy should be expanding well under the influence of their tax cut. A good rate of growth is likely to continue in most of Western Europe and, with higher commodity prices, demand from the primary producers, w ho are so important to our exports, should again be higher. There seems every reason to believe, therefore, that the business will be there on an increasing scale if we go out and seize it. There is also good reason to believe that our exporters are rising to their opportunities.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Industry, Trade and Regional Development will be elaborating on this theme tomorrow. But I can say here and now that, as the March trade figures will show, the trend of exports is still encouragingly upwards—a heartening achievement. Even greater successes will be needed if we are to attain all our aims, but current progress shows that it can be done.

On the side of internal demand, there has been the turn-round in investment expenditure by manufacturing industry and all the indications are that there will be a vigorous growth this year. In the public sector the expansion that is already well under way is certain to continue.

Then there is investment in stocks, which has risen rapidly in recent months after running at a relatively low level for a considerable time. Stock-to-turnover ratios are still comparatively low and we must be prepared to see stock-building continuing at a high rate and, indeed, probably increasing further.

With all these forces making for expansion of the activity of the economy, real personal income—or spending power, in simpler terms—must be expected to go on rising strongly and this will be reflected in the actual growth of consumer expenditure.

The outlook for demand as a whole is a continued expansion at a high rate which, although somewhat lower than in recent months, when it has been about 6 per cent., would still be very high and substantially greater than 4 per cent. per annum.

I turn now to the external position. The prospect for exports, as I have already shown, is encouraging. There should be a substantial increase. The prospect for imports, also, is that they will be considerably higher in 1964 than in 1963. This is the inevitable effect of a higher rate of activity.

It is difficult to make any exact prediction, partly because of the uncertainty of import prices—which have already risen substantially—but also because it is difficult to be sure how far recent substantial imports have already reflected the initial stock-building phase of our expansion. The level and extent of stock-building is notoriously the most volatile and unpredictable element in our economy.

While, therefore, we have already seen the effects of the first spurt in stock-building, there can be no certainty about what will follow. But in so far as we are paying for imports that are necessary for economic expansion, we are, as I have repeatedly said, entitled to regard this as a proper subject for financing through the use of our external credit, so long—and this condition must never be overlooked—as our domestic economy remains sound.

Here, I want to say a word about imports of manufactures, as much attention has been given to this recently. They have, of course, risen rapidly recently in relative terms although in absolute terms they are less important than the bulk imports of food, fuel and materials. There are some people who argue that we should place controls upon the imports of manufactured goods—about two-thirds of which, by the way, are machinery for industry—on the ground that we can make them for ourselves.

I do not object to import controls on doctrinal grounds, but on grounds of practical policy. Certainly, there could be occasions where their use would be justified and permissible under international agreements, that is, if we should be facing severe balance of payments difficulties which could not be dealt with in better ways. But we must always remember that as a country that lives by the export of manufactured goods our interest lies in the greatest worldwide freedom of trade in them. We cannot expect to export machinery and consumer goods if we are not prepared to import them.

There are three further difficulties about a policy of import controls on manufactures. First, in the case of machinery, where trade is becoming increasingly worldwide and specialisation more extensive, we should be denying to our manufacturers access to some of the best and most modern machinery. Secondly, by protecting our own industries against external competition we should be missing opportunities of stimulating them to greater efficiency. Thirdly, our policies for helping the under-developed countries will be frustrated if we are not prepared to accept from them as the years go by progressively increased imports of manufactures.

There is only one effective answer to growing imports of manufactures: to produce more and more efficiently ourselves in competition with imports and to expand our exports.

On the capital account this year, we cannot look for a continuance of the comparatively low rate of net outflow we have had in the past few years. Overseas investment by the oil industry, for example, is likely to increase this year. But we are all the time building up our stock of overseas assets. We are net creditors on assets and liabilities of most types, and there is a substantial excess of assets over liabilities in the higher-yielding categories.

As a result, we have a net income from overseas by way of interest, profits and dividends of £340 million a year. While, therefore, the outflow of long-term capital may add to our short-term problems, we must remember that it is strengthening the current account in the future, though there are, of course, limits to what we can or should do, even in this field of useful and profitable activity.

To sum up the external prospects for the coming year, the combination of an increased capital outflow with a deterioration in the current account will mean a worsening of the overall balance of payments this year. Provided that it is temporary, this should give rise neither to alarm nor dismay, and it would be very foolish of anyone to proclaim that it shou1d. It is the predictable accompaniment of a vigorous rate of growth which all of us are committed to seek. We have very large first and second line reserves and other borrowing facilities which can be mobilised to deal with a position of temporary imbalance or with movements of short-term funds. In addition to the gold and dollar reserves, there is the Government's dollar portfolio which has averaged around 1 billion dollars in value. Short-term assistance from other central banks is available, as we saw a year ago, and we have the 500 million dollar swap agreement with the U.S.A. Our standby arrangement with the International Monetary Fund enables us to draw quickly 1 billion dollars from that source and our total drawing rights amount to nearly 2½ billion dollars.

These are strong defences. I hope, moreover, that the work of the Group of Ten, in which the United Kingdom is playing a full part, and the coming meeting of the International Monetary Fund this autumn, will further strengthen the international liquidity system, with benefit to the position of sterling along with the other major currencies.

We cannot, however, be confident that the worsening in our overall balance will be temporary unless we keep control of our own costs and particularly of our export pi ices. It is manifest from the figures that I have given, and from the studies published, for example, by the N.E.D.C., that the key to all our success is a vigorous increase of exports and that this depends upon keeping our costs competitive. We have recently benefited from increases in costs suffered by some of our competitors particularly on the Continent, but we cannot, and should not, rely on this process continuing; it will not. In Germany, in France and in Japan vigorous measures have been taken to keep the situation under control; while in the United States, still our most formidable industrial rival, the level of costs has been kept quite remarkably stable for several years now.

It cannot be too often repeated that the level of costs is a matter within our own control. It is fair to say that British manufacturers have, in general, access to raw materials on terms at least as favourable as our competitors. It is what we add ourselves that will make the difference between success and failure in our export efforts.

This year, we have encouraging prospects of price stability in basic industries. The National Economic Development Office has recently announced that price increases this year are unlikely for a number of key products, namely, coal, oil, steel, cement and chemicals. Indeed, I understand that it is likely that the National Coal Board will shortly he making a reduction of 2s. 6d. per ton in the price of coking coal supplied to the steel industry. As I said earlier, out policy in setting financial targets is bearing fruit.

It is encouraging that the Board feels able to make this reduction, despite the difficult task with which it is faced in continuing fully to pay its way, for the industry has a stern struggle on its hands, and feels the current pressure of prices of supplies and other components in its costs. This reduction in the price of coking coal should yield benefits beyond the steel industry itself, and I regard it as a useful contribution towards keeping our industrial costs competitive. This prospect of stability in some of the basic products gives us a foundation on which to work. Our success will depend more than anything else on the trend of incomes.

Will there be half a crown extra on the bottle of liquid which the right hon. Gentleman is pouring himself?