asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation how many students in colleges of technology in African Commonwealth countries are being financed by his Department.

None, Sir. We give aid to technological training overseas not by grants direct to students but by providing assistance to certain institutions and to the staff serving in them.

Would it not be desirable if Her Majesty's Government could offer scholarships to students in these territories, to encourage greater interest and drive among these people to seek higher education?

While, of course, we do, and it is right that we should, offer many scholarships to people to come and train here, it would be rather difficult and tricky in some ways to offer scholarships to students of another country in their own institutions. I think it is better for us and more in accord with the wishes and needs of the developing countries if we help those countries to build up their own institutions and leave them to give such grants as may be necessary to their students.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation how many British graduates of British universities are teaching and doing research in African Commonwealth countries.

There are approximately 1,600 British graduates engaged on teaching and research in African Commonwealth countries who are financially assisted by my Department. There are also about 600 employed in universities. The number of those engaged in similar work in the private sector is not known to me.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply and while expressing satisfaction that the figures are such as they are, may I ask him whether he would not agree that it is very important that in helping the under-developed countries we should do all we can, whether by grants or scholarships, or by sending experts from our country to stimulate in the countries themselves an urge to reach the highest scientific and technological levels, since by establishing such institutions in these countries we can probably do more good for them than by giving material aid?

I fully agree with all that the hon. Gentleman says. I think that those British people who are prepared to go out and teach in this way are doing a fine job. It is an aspect of the brain drain which I am doing all I can to encourage.

Could the right hon. Gentleman tell us of any progress that has been made in the scheme for co-operation between British and overseas universities, for the secondment of university staffs to developing countries?

I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman has any specific points in mind. If so, perhaps he could put specific Questions to me on the Notice Paper. In general, I think that the scheme is going well.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation how many British doctors and nurses he expects to recruit this year for service in Northern Rhodesia.

We have been asked to supply 20 medical officers. So far we have three British doctors in line for appointment, but this is a very difficult field and we are not confining our recruiting efforts to this country. I cannot yet say how many we are likely to recruit this year. Fifty staff nurses have been asked for and there are good prospects of supplying them.

Is not the situation very disappointing? Even if the 20 were appointed, how far would this go to replace wastage in the existing service?

The doctor recruitment situation is very difficult and serious. We have, for example, on our books 230 vacancies for doctors and medical specialists for 38 countries, and only half the number of British doctors who are needed are coming forward. This matter is receiving special attention from a special panel of the Porritt Committee and I am expecting a report from that panel very shortly.

Apart from the difficulties in the supply of doctors, which are understood, is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with the time taken to meet these applications from overseas countries? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some of them are complaining that his Department takes a great deal longer to deal with these applications than, say, the equivalent department in the Federal Republic of Germany?

I am, of course, aware that these countries need these doctors and other specialists very quickly, and when we find difficulty in recruiting and we are slow in finding people there is disappointment. I have been looking into these difficulties and I am satisfied that any slowness is due to the shortage of supply and not to any procedural red tape. Procedural red tape is something that we are constantly getting our knife to.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation when he expects to appoint agricultural liaison officers to the High Commission offices in the developing countries of the Commonwealth.

I am not convinced that such specialised permanent representation is needed at present, particularly in view of the regular contacts maintained by my professional advisers with these countries; but I will review the position with my right hon. Friend in the light of experience.

Has the right hon. Gentleman considered the report which led to this recommendation? Is not he aware that there is a need for a better assessment on the spot of the requirements of the developing countries, not only in terms of equipment and capital but in agriculture, education, and matters of that kind? If only a comparatively small number of personnel is involved, would it not be possible to take some tentative steps to try to get the better liaison which is recommended?

I agree with the purpose behind the hon. Member's remarks, but I do not think that the sort of attachment which he suggests in his Question is the best way of meeting the point, at any rate at present. We are trying to build up, and are increasing the establishment of one or two home-based institutions, in order to provide more advisers in the many different specialities connected with agriculture in order to provide a better service overseas.

Would not one effective way to deal with this problem be to set up in other parts of the world bodies modelled on the Development Division in the Middle East, operated by the right hon. Gentleman's Department?

That Division is certainly doing very fine work. I made a particular point of calling to see how it was working on my way back from Asia before Christmas, and the point that the hon. Gentleman has raised is very much in my mind.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation if he will make representations to the University Central Council on Admissions to ensure that students from developing countries applying for places at British universities have the same admission procedure applied to them as is applied to students from the United Kingdom.

I have already been in consultation with the Council on this matter. It is sympathetic to this point, and has assured me that it is seeking to simplify the system in the hope of achieving a common procedure for all applicants in 1965–66.

I appreciate the efforts made by the Minister in this matter, but is not he aware that during the coming year, for the first time, there will be discrimination against Commonwealth students from developing countries. Is he aware that the students' officers of the Commonwealth High Commissions here are deeply offended by this development? Can something further be done to make the university clearing house aware of the unfortunate effect which this action has on Commonwealth students?

What the Central Council is trying to do is something that I am sure we would all agree with, namely, to create a system of admissions for all students, home or overseas, on the same basis. Hitherto, overseas students have not been admitted on the same basis. This year has been what the Council has described to me as a running-in year. I am afraid that it is too late to do anything this year. The full system would not work this year. I am satisfied that this is a step towards a genuinely uniform system.

Is it not a fact that certain places are reserved for overseas students in universities, and that in such cases they have priority over our students?

I cannot speak from direct knowledge of that point. I would not have thought so, however, except in respect of the relatively small number of scholarships and endowments which various universities have specifically for overseas students. They would cover only a small number of overseas students. Generally the universities are completely autonomous in their selection of students, whether from home or overseas.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation if he will make a statement about the extent to which his Department is now equipped to make and distribute films for use in developing countries; and what his future policy is in this respect.

My Department supplies films for use in education and training but does not itself make and distribute them. It also provides experts and training facilities in film making when requested to do so by developing countries.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman consider that as the work of his Department increases there will be an increasing need for films not just borrowed from other Departments or institutions but specifically directed to the work of his own Department? Ought not he to be thinking of setting up the right sort of film unit within his own Department for these purposes?

I have no doubt that that is a matter that we should keep our eye on, but I am satisfied that up to now it would be wrong for us to take on the big expenditure, heavy commitments and the staff involved in going into the film producing and distributing business. At the moment—and as far as I can see, in the foreseeable future—we are doing the right thing. But I will certainly keep my eye on the situation.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation if he is aware that, in order to encourage technical experts to undertake periods of overseas service, it is necessary to guarantee security in respect of their future employment and promotion at home; and what proposals he has to help employers offer such guarantees to members of their staff.

Promotion can seldom be guaranteed, but there are satisfactory arrangements for the re-employment on return from overseas of teachers, civil servants and the staff of public corporations. Arrangements in the local government field are being examined. We do all we can to encourage private employers and the professions to recognise this need, and to give positive credit for overseas service.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman recognise that the Question is directed more to non-public employers than to the organisations he mentioned in the first part of his Answer? Does not this problem apply particularly to the small firm and the small organisation? They might have very suitable staffs, but would it not be unreasonable to ask the staffs to take the risk involved, or the firm to shoulder the financial burden that may be involved in reorganising its set-up? Is not there a need for a tripartite arrangement, providing for Government assistance and an employee-employer relationship, in order to make sure that people go out for the right sort of period?

It would be very difficult to organise any formal scheme. So far we have managed, on the whole, to meet the requests which have come to us. We have to do most of this by persuasion at the moment, as far as I can see, and the officers of my Department and I are having many conversations with the leaders of the professions and the employers. We shall try to find ways to make more overseas recruitment possible.

In his reply my right hon. Friend said that promotion can seldom be guaranteed. Under what circumstances can it ever be guaranteed, in a free society?

I should like to know that, for my own use.

Is not there a real difficulty concerning the people doing this kind of service, arising from the effect on their health insurance and pensions? Will the right hon. Gentleman have special talks with his right hon. Friend in order to consider that aspect of the matter, which affects both public and private employees?

I will certainly take that into account.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what progress has been made in setting up the Council for Volunteers Overseas.

The membership of the Council under the Presidency of His Royal Highness The Duke of Edinburgh has now been settled. I will, with permission, publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT the Council's terms of reference and the names of those who have accepted invitations to become members. I understand that the Council will hold its first meeting towards the end of May.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this news will be warmly welcomed by all those who support the admirable work of this service? Is he aware that this House will wish to support the work of the Council throughout its term and that we hope that the Government will do likewise?

I am glad to hear my hon. Friend say that. This is something which has the support of all parties and that is much appreciated.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation (1) what payment, other than earned pension, is being offered to designated and to non-designated officers, respectively, in Nyasaland who are no longer required after independence; and approximately how many officers there are in each category;

There are approximately 600 designated officers still serving in Nyasaland and 16 non-designated officers on overseas terms of service. A general compensation scheme for designated officers is already in force and I am informed by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations that the Nyasaland Government is about to introduce a retirement benefits scheme for the non-designated officers. I will, with permission, circulate brief details of these schemes in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

My right hon. Friend has said that there are only 16 non-designated officers. Would he look at the difference between the terms offered to designated and non-designated officers and try to be more generous to the non-designated officers? Is he aware that, so far as I know, there is no machinery for arbitration or for the consideration of cases of hardship, and will he see whether this can be introduced?

The terms for non-designated officers is not my responsibility, but that of my right hon. Friend. I will consult him and draw his attention to what has been said by my hon. Friend.

In view of the relatively small number of non-designated officers, is the Minister aware that there would be strong support from hon. Members on this side of the House for any generous arrangements made about hardship cases?

I note that.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what consultations there have been between his Department and voluntary organisations regarding the allocation of money collected by registered charities for development work overseas.

There are consultations from time to time about specific projects or questions; but there has been no approach to my Department about overall allocation.

The Minister will be aware that there is grave anxiety felt by some of the leading voluntary bodies in this country and that a statement was made yesterday in another place. Am I right in thinking that the meaning of that statement is that there is in fact no serious obstacle to the allocation of charitably subscribed money to development projects overseas, provided that the constituent body collecting the money makes plain that contributions might be used in such a way?

This is very largely a matter for the jurisdiction of the court, and the interpretation of trust deeds and terms of reference, and so I feel that it would be wrong for me to express a definite opinion. I think that the House will have noticed that some noble Lords in another place were reasonably encouraged by what my noble Friend said on this matter yesterday.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what steps he is taking in connection with the setting up of a new council to stimulate and co-ordinate British aid and assistance to developing countries; and what is the time-table for the establishment of this council.

None, Sir, so far as Government aid is concerned. If the hon. Member is referring to discussions which I understand are going on between voluntary societies, I have received no proposals, and therefore the second part of the Question does not arise.

Is not it a fact that there are proposals for the creation of a new council to stimulate and coordinate the activities of both voluntary and official bodies in respect of aid to developing countries? Is not it important that the Government's view should be known and expressed at an early date?

The Government facilitates the work of voluntary agencies in many ways and I need hardly emphasise that we attach tremendous value to what they are doing. I think that it is for the voluntary societies to complete the discussions between themselves, and it would not be proper for me to comment on that.

Would not the best way of co-ordinating and stimulating British aid and assistance to developing countries be by merging the right hon. Gentleman's own Department into a really effective Ministry of Overseas Aid?

Perhaps I am unduly vain, but I like to think that my Department is already an efficient instrument of aid. I believe that it has achieved a great deal during the 2½ years since it was set up. We should delude ourselves if we imagine that the setting up of a new Ministry, or changing an organisation, of itself achieved very much. When the need was there, my Department was set up in its present form. I am satisfied that when there is a need for a change in the organisation, it will be made.

I am sure that the Minister would agree that it is wasteful to have several voluntary organisations all doing the same thing? Would not it be wise for the Minister to consider suggesting that they come together so that there should be full co-ordination?

What sometimes appears wasteful on paper is often helpful in practice. I think that the House would be well advised not to approach getting relationships too tidy on paper. It is diversity of enthusiasm on the part of a number of people which so often leads to successful results.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation on what basis conducting officers for foreign and Commonwealth visitors are selected and trained.

These officers are provided by the Central Office of Information, the British Council and the Overseas Departments.

Does the Minister agree that the person who makes the most lasting impression on a visiting delegation is often the conducting officer? Is it not of the greatest importance that he should have the best possible qualifications? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are hundreds of people in this country who, although they may not be qualified or willing to be full-time conducting officers, have a special knowledge and affection for certain countries? Is anything being done to enlist them for this work on a part-time basis?

I have indicated that the British Council makes use of part-time people. I believe that the Colonial Office also does. But I will certainly keep in mind the hon. Member's remarks, and draw the attention of other Departments to them.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what facilities exist for the technical training of information officers in Commonwealth and foreign countries.

The Central Office of Information has held courses for information officers of the Foreign Service and Commonwealth Relations Service since January, 1961. These courses include technical training in all information media and outlets currently used by our overseas missions.

I am grateful for that reply, but will the Minister bear in mind that what the Plowden Committee recommended was that all information officers in future shall be career diplomats, and that this involves an extension of the training of such people?

I recognise that that Plow-den recommendation will almost certainly increase the need for training, but since 1961 all new information officers have been given training before going to posts. I agree that the need may well increase.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation whether he is satisfied with the arrangements for bringing sponsored visitors to this country; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. The estimates provision for visitors sponsored by the British Council and the Central Office of Information has been increased this year to about £1·3 million compared with about £1 million last year. This should enable them to sponsor considerably more visitors than last year when the total was over 6,300. Other Departments also arrange tours for visitors with particular interests in their fields.

I welcome this information. Can my right hon. Friend do still more to encourage these visitors to get around the industrial areas so that they may see for themselves what Britain has to offer the world by way of "know-how"?

Yes, indeed. Most visitors wish to spend a certain amount of time in London, but we are encouraging more and more of them—and more and more are finding it profitable and enjoyable—to get well away from London as well.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation whether he is proposing to expand English language teaching overseas.

Yes Sir. In 1964–65 there has been an increase of nearly £1 million in the estimates provision for the British Council, and a substantial part of this will be devoted to English language teaching.

Will my right hon. Friend do everything he can to facilitate recruitment for this very important work, and the provision of teaching overseas?

Yes, certainly, it is very important. The 30 English language teaching experts referred to whom we shall get overseas by next year compare with eight in the field at the present time, and so the House will see that there is a considerable expansion.

Would not it be helpful if the right hon. Gentleman could get a more general idea of all the different efforts which are being made in this sphere, not only by the British Council, but by B.B.C. experts and by television programmes, universities and Government information services? Could not we be given an opportunity of seeing the whole work of the British Government in this connection?

I should very much like to do that, but one of my difficulties in answering the Question is that there are so many people active in this sphere and increasing their activities. We should encourage them to do so. I should welcome any such opportunities that may arise.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what further plans he has for the extension of the Low-Priced Book Scheme.

The Low-Priced Book Scheme has now been extended, with the publishers' agreement, to 10 further countries, mainly in Africa, which I will, with permission, list in the OFFICIAL REPORT. The Scheme will be limited initially to university textbooks.

Is the Minister aware that there will be a wide welcome for this announcement, belated though it is? Can he say whether he proposes to go ahead and consider whether low-priced books apart from text books might be made available in the 10 countries which he has mentioned?

Yes, but we think it better to get the university text books going because we believe that they are the greatest need. Regarding the hon. Member's comment about belatedness, we have not done too badly. In the last year we brought in the whole of West Africa and most of East and Central Africa and one or two other countries as well.

Would not it be a good idea to have some kind of exhibition so that people may see what sort of books are involved? Will my right hon. Friend consider that?

Yes, but I had better not say anything now, because there is a Written Question on the Order Paper today which I shall be answering.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider introducing a low-priced HANSARD into this scheme?

I have a feeling that our friends overseas have plenty of reading of other kinds and can afford the little bit of money if they really want to read all our words of wisdom.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what percentage of secondary schools in the West Riding of Yorkshire have a paid careers master and/or mistress.

The local education authority tells me that about two-fifths of its secondary schools have one or more posts carrying special responsibility allowances awarded solely or partly for careers work. Such work is also undertaken in many schools by those holding posts of special responsibility as heads of department or as deputy headmasters or headmistresses, and by the heads of the schools.

What of the remaining three-fifths? Does not the right hon. and learned Gentleman consider it desirable that every secondary school today, not merely those in the West Riding of Yorkshire, should have one member of the staff responsible for providing information to its students about employment possibilities; in other words, acting on the recommendation of the Newsom Report that there should be at least one member of the staff acting as an essential liaison between schools, parents and the youth employment service? What will he do to urge this view on the laggard L.E.A.s?

I share the hon. Member's enthusiasm for getting careers masters or teachers in every kind of secondary school. Certainly the West Riding authority to which this Question relates made additional posts of special responsibility available on 1st April last and it may well be that some of these go to that purpose. The authority has recently published a booklet of advice. I shall certainly do what I can to encourage local authorities generally to take the same kind of view.

While appreciating what the right hon. Gentleman has just said, may I encourage his enthusiasm and encourage him to follow the example of West Riding? Would he consider collating information about the steps very successfully taken in some schools—the careers convention, for instance, in Woodbury Downs School—and brine, that to the attention of all schools?

I have asked my Department to see what further steps could be taken to develop careers posts in secondary schools generally. I am very anxious that this should go forward.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is aware that 28 per cent. of Walthamstow's schoolchildren are being educated in schools built before 1900 while only 33 per cent. are being educated in post-war schools; and by what date his approvals of new constructions will enable Walthamstow more closely to approach the national average in educational standards.

I understand that 25 per cent. of Walthamstow children are in schools built before 1900 and nearly 34 per cent. are in completely new postwar schools and in schools which have been brought fully up to modern standards. This figure is about the national average.

While I am pleased to note that in terms of post-war schools Walthamstow is thought not to be lagging behind the national average, may I ask whether my hon. Friend considers that the large number of those being educated in schools built in the last century suggests that it is high time that greater priority was now given to replacing these very old schools?

My right hon. Friend recognises the claims of Walthamstow on the major building programme approved for Essex, which for the next two years is valued at £3·9 million and £4·1 million respectively; these figures compare with £1·6 million for the current year.

When the Minister was bragging on television last night about the remarkable and phenomenal school building programme for which the Tory Government are alleged to be responsible, had he happened to read this Question beforehand?

Yes, Sir. The record of school building by this Government is indeed a creditable one and it is significant that from the Opposition Front Bench, so far as I know, there has been no undertaking to implement larger programmes than we have announced.

The Parliamentary Secretary should know that he is quite wrong. We have discussed the school building programme in previous debates and made quite clear that we regard the present Government programme as wholly unsatisfactory and inadequate.

If this undertaking to implement a programme larger apparently than £80 million a year can be equated with what the hon. Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan) has said on more than one occasion, I shall be much surprised.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what plans he has for the reconstruction of the 19th century Woodford Green Primary School.

It was not possible to include this project in the school building programme for 1965–67. My right hon. Friend will be considering it sympathetically for the 1967–68 programme.

While I am glad to have that assurance, may I ask whether my hon. Friend is aware that the encouraging figures he has suggested for Essex as a whole are not reflected in the urban areas of Essex now incorporated in the Greater London area? Is he aware that this particular school was built in 1820 and that the amount of money spent in patching it up might by now have gone a long way to provide a new school?

I am aware of the condition of this particular school about which my hon. Friend has written to the Department previously, but we must have regard to the priorities chosen by Essex itself——

May we take it that the ones to which priority has been given are worse than this one?

—and a large number of replacements. Within the very large programme for the country of £80 million announced for the coming year, there is approximately £50 million for new needs and £30 million for replacements.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science why, out of a total income in 1963 of £69,285, £59,576 was spent by the Duke of Edinburgh's Award Scheme on office and administrative expenses.

I think some misunderstanding may have been caused by the phrase "administrative expenses".

How did this misunderstanding come about?

The hon. Member should perhaps address that question to the Award office, for which of course my right hon. Friend has no direct responsibility, but I am grateful to him for putting this Question down and giving me the opportunity to refute the suggestion that there is an unwarrantably high proportion of the Award Scheme expenses going in office expenses.

Is the Minister saying that he takes no responsibility——

Nevertheless, for the record, would not my hon. Friend agree that this scheme is very much welcomed by all throughout the country and that it is doing a wonderful job?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The Department makes a grant of £10,000 to the Award Scheme and I agree entirely as to its worth. The scheme is, of course, concerned principally with administering awards and therefore a high proportion of the expenditure may in a sense be termed administrative.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science to what extent, in formulating school building programmes recently announced, he took into consideration the school building survey which has not yet been made available to the public.

The larger part of the programmes is allocated to the provision of essential new school places for increasing numbers of pupils and areas of new housing. These factors were not included in the survey. Account was taken of the individual returns of authorities, along with other factors, in deciding the broad distribution of that considerable part of the programmes devoted directly to the improvement and replacement of existing schools.

If the Department has been able to use the survey why has it not been published? Does it turn out that the survey makes such a criticism of the state of the schools that the right hon. Gentleman and the Government are afraid to publish it?

No. I refer the hon. Member to an Answer given by my right hon. Friend on the subject on 16th April, in which he explained why the survey material had not been published and that he was considering what form the publication should take.

Would my right hon. Friend indicate whether there is any geographical split up in this survey, because there is a feeling in the South-East that too much money is being spent in other areas? We should be grateful for an assurance that the South-East, which is the development area with the greatest increase in population, is to have its fair share?

I am answering this question because the distribution was made before I left Curzon Street. The South-East had its fair share. I am sure my hon. Friend will bear in mind the heavy legacy of old schools in the North-East and the North-West.

Does the right hon. Gentleman's inquiry confirm that of the N.U.T., which showed that one-seventh of our primary schools have no water sanitation?

I would not wish, without notice, to answer questions on particular details. The questionnaire was considerably more complicated than the inquiry by the Union, and this had implications in the collection and processing of the material.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science having regard to the saving of 12½ per cent. in building costs through the bulk purchase of standard components by the consortium of 10 education authorities in Wales, what steps he is taking to bring the other education authorities in Wales within the consortium; and what is his estimate of the saving on the cost of the current building programme if all the authorities joined the consortium.

This matter was brought to the attention of all local education authorities by my Department's Circular 1/64 of 28th February last. I am sending the right hon. Gentleman a copy and I welcome the opportunity of giving it further publicity. Although I cannot estimate the additional saving I hope that more authorities in Wales will recognise the advantage of joining the consortium, although this is a matter for them to decide.

Does not the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that a saving of £30,000 on schools' bulk purchase tenders in one year is a very creditable performance? Does it not prove that, if other local education authorities in Wales and elsewhere adopt this method, they will save a great deal of money for the ratepayers and taxpayers'?

I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman. I have always done what I could to encourage consortia of this kind.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many school buildings in Carmarthenshire tall below the standard set by his Department; and why he has cut the school building programme of the county education committee by over £500,000.

Information is not readily available about the present number of school buildings in Carmarthenshire which fall below the standards specified in the Standards for School Premises Regulations, 1959. For the 2½ year period beginning 1st April, 1965, major school building projects to the value of £738,000 have been programmed for Carmarthenshire. I am satisfied that these take appropriate account of relative priorities and are equitable in relation to the needs of the Authority and of other authorities.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that in one school in particular, the modern secondary school at Ammanford, pupils spend a great deal of time during the day moving from one building to the other? Will he ensure that priority is given to this matter in any future plans?

I will take note of what the right hon. Gentleman has said about that school.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman explain what is the use of having regulations if one is not aware whether or not they are being observed?

That is a very good question, if I may say so. What I said was that it would be difficult to get information in the form asked for by the right hon. Member for Llanelly (Mr. J. Griffiths). But, of course, the regulations are for application by individual authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on the work of the Torry Research Station, Aberdeen.

The Torry Research Station of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research studies properties affecting the quality of fish as food and aims to improve preservation methods and also the equipment and procedures used at sea or on land in handling, storing, processing, and distributing fish. It collaborates closely with the White Fish Authority, the Herring Industry Board and the various sections of the fish industry.

Does the Minister realise that the most important aspect of this very useful work carried on by the Torry Research Station lies in its application to trade and industry with a view to facilitating not only British trade but British exports? Will he address his mind to that aspect and make a comprehensive statement on that?

I am not sure that the House would welcome a comprehensive statement at Question Time, but the hon. and learned Member is quite correct in saying that the work of the station is of immediate importance and application. It is concerned with the handling and treatment of fish straight from the sea, as it were, freezing, cold storage, smoking and prevention of deterioration. We have all these aspects very much in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what percentage of the cost of research and development for which he is responsible is carried out in Northern Ireland and in development districts, respectively.

9·5 per cent. of the expenditure of the four Research Councils is in support of research institutions in development districts, and rather less than ½ per cent. in support of institutions in Northern Ireland. 14 per cent. of the Atomic Energy Authority's expenditure is incurred in development districts.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to ensure that an adequate portion of the research and development carried on by his Department takes place in Northern Ireland.

The primary consideration in carrying out a programme of research and development must be scientific efficiency. Subject to this, however, the Research Councils have for some years been requested to bear in mind the needs of areas of high unemployment, including Northern Ireland. The results of research are, of course, available to the whole country.

Does not my right hon. Friend recognise the importance of having this kind of work widely spread in development districts and in Northern Ireland? In view of the figures he gave me in answer to Question No. 30, showing that only ½ per cent. of this work is being done in Northern Ireland, will he consider situating the next research station in Northern Ireland?

We must realise that the primary purpose of these stations is research and development and that they must be situated where they can operate most efficiently. But my right hon. and learned Friend is aware of the importance of all these matters to Northern Ireland and we shall certainly bear it in mind carefully when, for example, dealing with subjects like research grants to universities and postgraduate awards.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the location of this research is perhaps at this time the most important factor determining the location, and the continuing location, of industry? Will he bear this in mind when considering where these stations shall be?

Certainly, research institutions closely connected with an industry should, if possible, be situated near the centre of that industry. I agree that the two things are closely linked together.