asked the Postmaster-General what conditions he will lay down regarding the fulfilment of a British quota in the showing of feature films on experimental pay-television.

Any pay-television operator who shows registered cinema films will be required to include British cinema films at least at the prevailing rate of cinema exhibitors' first feature screen quota, at present 30 per cent. Any film which has been registered with the Board of Trade as a British quota film will count towards the quota requirement.

That is not a very satisfactory Answer. In view of the decline in cinema attendances and the need to stimulate the British film industry, and as the pay-television companies are being given this important concession, ought they not to be required to fulfil a much higher British quota than the ordinary cinemas?

I appreciate the considerations which the hon. Gentleman has mentioned, but at the same time I do not think that it would be fair to have the same provisions applying to pay-television as to cinemas. After all, cinemas can show the newest of films whereas pay-television cannot, and, of course, we have to consider the interests of the local exhibitors. That is why we have made the special provisions for the pay-television companies.

Can the Postmaster-General say what proposals he has in mind for limiting the cinema film proportion of total programme content of pay-television stations, and, secondly, is he satisfied that after a film has been on the major circuit the subsequent-run exhibitors will be safeguarded by this new innovation of allowing six-month-old films to go on pay-television?

The latter part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question was, I think, answered before the House rose for the Whitsun Recess. We are providing that at least the prevailing rate of the cinema exhibitors' first-feature screen quota of 30 per cent. shall be observed.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will now have discussions with the British Broadcasting Corporation, the Independent Television Authority, and interested bodies in the film industry and cinema trade about the general principle governing the showing or feature films on television, in the light of his decision about experimental pay-television.

The procurement of programme material, including films, is a matter for commercial negotiation both for pay-television and for the B.B.C. and The only reason I have laid down certain conditions about the possible use of films in the pay-television experiment is to safeguard the interests of exhibitors in the few areas concerned during the experimental period.

Does not the Postmaster-General think that it is time that this whole matter was reviewed round the table by the interests concerned? Would it not be ridiculous, as the right hon. Gentleman has made the concession to the pay-television companies to allow them to show feature films six months after general release, that they should be doing that while the B.B.C. and the I.T.A. go on showing this ancient stuff at the weekends? Is it not time that all the interests concerned, especially as the Minister has incorporated provisions for compensation to cinema exhibitors while they suffer competition from pay-television, should now confer and try to reach a new basis of agreement?

I think that there are two points there. The first is that, unlike the B.B.C. and the I.T.A., pay-television, certainly in the early stages, is bound to rely largely on films. I do not think that it would be appropriate to treat pay-T.V. and the broadcasting organisations in the same way.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will give a direction to the British Broadcasting Corporation, under Section 14(4) of the Licence and Agreement, to refrain from transmitting on its second television network programmes of mass appeal which, its opinion, would discourage commercial television companies from maintaining their present number of programmes with a specialised appeal.

Programmes are a matter for the B.B.C. In authorising B.B.C. 2, however, the Government's overall purpose pronounced in the first White Paper on Broadcasting, was that the viewer should have a choice of different types of programme including more programmes of an educational or informative nature, or drawn from regional sources. The B.B.C. has made it plain in a number of public statement that it is planning the use of the two networks on this basis. The I.T.A. is, of course, under a duty to see that the programmes it broadcasts maintain a proper balance in their subject matter.

Whilst very much welcoming that Answer, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he agrees that it will give the commercial companies an incentive to discontinue such specialised programmes as they put on at present if they know that they will inevitably be competing with mass appeal programmes on the other channels? Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that this is a real problem which needs to be solved?

I understand what the hon. Gentleman has in mind, the danger that if the B.B.C. were to put out two popular programmes they might have the effect of detracting from the balance of the I.T.A. transmissions. I do not think that there is any serious risk of the B.B.C. manipulating its programmes in this way, but I agree that this is a situation which requires watching.

asked the Postmaster-General whether, following the example of Sweden, Denmark and Belgium, he will introduce legislation to ban pirate ship broadcasting.

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in considering legislation concerning offshore radio stations, he will take into account the need for an adequate all-music radio programme to serve the eastern half of England.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) what plans he has for the licensing of commercial sound radio;

asked the Postmaster-General when he will publish the terms of his Bill to illegalise the support of off-shore private radio stations.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) if he has received the report of the working party on local sound broadcasting stations; and when he expects to permit the British Broadcasting Corporation to start local experimental stations;

As the answer is rather long I shall, with your permission, Mr. Speaker, make a statement after Questions.

rose—

Order. As far as I can see, nothing could arise out of the Postmaster-General's Answer.

I must consult the House, as I am not sure how to deal with the matter. In view of the form of the Answer which the Postmaster-General gave to Question No. 8 and others, I think that I should call other hon. Members whose Questions were answered then, in the hope that they will not be able to invent a supplementary question.

Question No. 11.

As the Answer is rather long, I should like, with permission, to make a statement after Questions.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the plans for educational television in Scotland.

As I indicated on 19th February in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Stratton Mills) the discussions I am having with my colleagues about educational broadcasting cover a whole range of proposals; and raise important questions of general principle such as, who should produce, who should transmit, and who should pay for. Educational television in Scotland is covered by these discussions.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware of the numerous complaints about the lack of educational content and inspiration in Scottish television on the grounds that the choice and treatment of the subjects presented are unworthy of the viewers? Will the right hon. Gentleman look into this question again to make its standard more worthy of the viewers?

That is precisely the object of the study which is at present being undertaken.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will inquire into British Broadcasting Corporation reception in the Port Talbot area.

The B.B.C. tells me that, provided suitable outside aerials are used, reception of its sound and television services should be satisfactory in most of the Port Talbot area.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that there is general dissatisfaction in many parts of Wales because of the television reception, and that that includes Port Talbot in my constituency? Many parts of Port Talbot are not able to receive the new B.B.C. Wales service at all. Is the hon. Gentleman further aware that within the last few days Red Dragon Relays has been concerned about the construction by the Central Electricity Generating Board of transmission lines which may well obliterate both B.B.C. and I.T.V. reception in this area? In view of the seriousness of the situation, will the hon. Gentleman investigate the possibility of the construction of a low-power station in the area and, secondly, undertake a survey to discover how many people receive the new B.B.C. Wales service in the whole of Wales?

The B.B.C.'s information is that there is quite widespread opportunity for obtaining this station. The B.B.C. has been made aware of the fact that many viewers are trying to obtain the new Channel 13 service on an existing Channel 10 aerial, which obviously will not give perfect reception, and it is trying to publicise the need for fitting the right type of aerial, although it admits that there is a certain amount of ghosting in certain parts as a result of hilly ground, and so on. Nevertheless, I shall notify the B.B.C. of the points made by the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware of the difficulty experienced by distant-water fishermen in receiving, owing to wave-band difficulties, the Saturday afternoon sports programme now that it has been transferred from the Light to the Third Programme; and what proposals he has for improving reception of this service.

It is true these fishermen will be able to receive the Light Programme on long wave, but not Network Three. However, the B.B.C. tells me that it broadcasts in its General Overseas service on short waves, a sports programme, "Saturday Special", from 3.15 p.m. to 5.0 p.m. and from 5.15 p.m. to 5.45 p.m. British Summer Time. This programme should be receivable at the distant-water fishing grounds on good equipment.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement concerning the loss of a mail bag dispatched from Tamworth, Staffs., on 27th February, containing cheques deposited with a local bank; and on what date the loss of this mail bag was notified to the Tamworth bank in question.

The mail bag in question was dispatched to London on the evening of 27th February, and contained unregistered letters, including five packets posted by different banks in Tamworth and reported to have contained cheques. I regret that, in spite of the fullest inquiries, we have been unable to trace how the loss occurred. As the packets were unregistered we had no details concerning them and could not notify the senders before they informed us, at various dates, that the packets had not been delivered.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that that is an extremely unsatisfactory Answer? Why was there a ten-day delay before the bank in question was advised about the loss? Why does postal control in Birmingham persist in regarding this as ordinary unregistered mail when these cheques were dispatched in official pouches and, therefore, presumably were subject to special control? What special tightening up has followed the raising of this sort of issue in the House three months ago?

The hon. Gentleman has given me some information which I did not have before. He suggests that the cheques were in pouches. That is a matter at which I shall have to look, because at the moment I am not aware of that. So far as I know, these were sent as normal unregistered mail, and therefore it is impossible to know what was contained in those bags when they disappeared, but I shall consider the point raised by the hon. Gentleman.

I am much obliged.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will reconsider his decision not to replace the letter-box at St. Olave's, Great Yarmouth, in view of the inconvenience this will cause to holiday-makers and the fact that no saving will result to the Post Office.

We have reconsidered this matter and decided in the special circumstances to have the box replaced.

asked the Postmaster-General when the Shakespeare sets of stamps were sent to Mr. P. N. Bulivant, who, as a stamp dealer, paid£81 in response to his Department's advertisement stating that they would be delivered on 24th April; and why, for over four weeks, inquiries have received the explanation that the stamps would be delivered in a few days without the stamps being sent.

I very much regret that this order was wrongly filed amongst those which had been met or were being met and that Bulivant's inquiries were incorrectly answered on this basis without adequate verification. An apology has been made to him and his stamps were delivered on 28th May.

But is not the whole case one of inefficiency and misrepresentation? [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Wait for it and I shall give the details. Will the hon. Gentleman explain how, when it was known that preparations were not made to complete the orders on 24th April, for weeks after stamp dealers were told that they would receive them in two or three days, yet the delay lasted for a month or five weeks? Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that this sort of thing has created a good deal of ill-will with the customers, and having got them out, they are sticking to the material of the packs, thus damaging many stamps. This is an example of in-efficiency. Will the hon. Gentleman ensure that if this sort of thing is done again better preparations are made for it?

Certainly mistakes have been made in regard to this issue. The matter to which the hon. Member refers is the issue of a first-day cover which we provided. This is the first time that we have sought to provide a first-day cover. We made a calculation of how many would be required, and we were grossly out. In fact, we calculated that about 20,000 or 30,000 would be required, whereas, at the end of the day, it was nearer 100,000. Mistakes were made in the Department, but we are making certain that they will not occur again. This was a teething problem, in respect of an issue which we had never offered before. I can assure the hon. Member that next time an issue of this kind is made we shall have learnt from the mistakes we made this time.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this mistake is made by every publisher in the United Kingdom, all the time?

asked the Postmaster-General if he will state the result of his inquiries into the organisation of postal arrangements in the area covered by the Crown post office in Peterlee.

I arranged for incoming mail to continue under periodic observation and as a result special instructions have been issued to those post offices where correspondence for the Peterlee area may have been delayed. I should be greatly helped in improving the service by a reduction in the amount of incorrectly addressed mail for the area. One of the main faults has been the omission of the post town of Peterlee. I am considering whether any further publicity measures in the Peterlee area would assist, and meanwhile I should be very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman if he would discuss this with me personally.

What is the point? I recognise the courtesy of the right hon. Gentleman in inviting me to have a discussion with him, but is he aware that I raised this matter more than two months ago? I then asked why this Crown post office was sited without any plan about the method of delivery and the nomenclature for the area. Surely this is a matter which could be settled in five minutes. If the right hon. Gentleman cannot do it himself, can I go to Peterlee and discuss it with the postmaster? Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the failure to solve a simple matter of this kind is an example of the inadequacy of the Post Office?

I realise that there seems to be an aversion in the North-East to using the word "Peterlee" as a postal town. Since February of this year we have examined about 1,400 letters intended for Peterlee, and have found that about 40 per cent. were wrongly addressed, and that consequently quite a number were held up in the post. I agree that there was no trouble before the new office was opened in Peterlee. Clearly there are local associations here which the right hon. Gentleman could help me about. That is why I should like to discuss the matter with him.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that the continued slowness of postal deliveries in the Lichfield, Staffordshire, area, which has been the subject of previous complaints by the hon. Member for Lichfield and Tamworth, is causing inconvenience to both private and commercial interests; and why letters posted from Westminster by 10.30 a.m. are not delivered by first post the following day in Lichfield.

I am sorry that staffing difficulties at Lichfield are still causing delay in the delivery of mail there. We are doing our best to overcome these.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I have already referred this to the Postmaster-General in the House of Commons? I did this as a test to corroborate the many complaints that I have received about this bad service. Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that his Department, like certain other Government Departments, does not seem to understand the problems confronting the area because of its being an overspill receiving area, with a greatly increased population? Will he accept what is intended to be a constructive suggestion? Why cannot the mail for this area be sent on the express train which leaves London in the late afternoon and which would at any rate provide a delivery first thing in the morning, without any delay? Why must the mail go via Birmingham?

I will consider this point, but it is important for the hon. Member to remember that this is a rapidly growing area, which makes it more difficult to recruit the right type of labour. This is one of our problems. Nevertheless, we are doing everything we can to put the matter right.

Pay them better, and you would get some more staff.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the progress of the telephone conversion to subscriber trunk dialling in Scotland; and when he expects to have it completed and in full working order in all regions.

Forty per cent. of telephone subscribers in Scotland now have S.T.D. I expect that the introduction of this facility will be substantially completed in all regions and available to well over 90 per cent. of subscribers by 1970.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he realises that that is an extremely unsatisfactory Answer? Why should Scotland lag behind England in this matter? Will the right hon. Gentleman take steps to see that Scotland is brought up to at least the level of England?

There is not a great deal in it. The percentage covered in the United Kingdom as a whole is 45, the percentage in Scotland is 40, and, anyway, Aberdeen has it.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs when he expects to publish the master plan for Dawley New Town; and what have been the results of his discussions with the New Town Corporation and the Secretary of State for Education and Science concerning the idea of creating a new university town and including it within the master plan.

The Development Corporation hopes to publish its master plan towards the end of the year, and it is open to it to reserve land for a university site. The proposal for a university at Dawley will be considered in the first instance by the University Grants Committee, and until provisional conclusions have been reached discussion; on the lines suggested would be premature.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that already on two previous occasions he has said that the University Grants Committee is considering the matter? Is he aware that the master plan is supposed to be ready in September? In view of the Robbins Report, can he intimate to me, the House and the country when a decision will be taken to include the university in the new town plan?

I cannot give an indication of the date of the decision of the University Grants Committee, but I can assure my hon. Friend that I have no reason whatever to suppose that any delay by the Committee will in any way prejudice the proper planning of Dawley New Town.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware that the maximum penalties under the Litter Act are inadequate; and if he will take an early opportunity of asking Parliament to increase them.

No, Sir. I have no reason to think that in general the penalties under the Litter Act are inadequate for the purposes for which that Act was designed.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied that the intentions of the Litter Act are being implemented? If he is, he must be the only person in the Kingdom who is. If not, what does he propose to do about it?

As my hon. Friend is aware, the great problem in connection with an Act which attempts to deal with the question of litter is enforcement. I know that my hon. Friend has in mind such matters as discarded motor cars, and so on, but I do not think that that is a reason for an increase in the penalties imposed under the Litter Act, as a general proposition.

Does the hon. Gentleman remember that when we last met, in the last hour, on the Adjournment, his right hon. Friend the Minister was saying that the Litter Act could be used to deal with the problem of discarded motor cars? If the penalties are not in line with the great commercial profits derived from dealing with this kind of scrap, is it not making a mockery of the whole idea of using the Act for this purpose?

The point that I wish to make—and I am sure that this is in line with the general thought in the House—is that for the ordinary offence under the Litter Act £10 is probably an adequate penalty.

Can the Minister say how many prosecutions have been brought under the Litter Act and what penalty, broadly speaking, has been imposed.

That is another question. If the hon. and learned Gentleman will put it down I shall do my best to answer it.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind the fact that the whole of England, from Loch Ness to Ditchling Beacon, is becoming increasingly nauseating, and that it is high time that either the existing Act were enforced or stiffer penalties were imposed?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs from which overseas countries he expects that migrants will come to settle in the southeast of England between now and 1981; and how many migrants he estimates will come from each country.

For the purpose of the South-East Study our broad and necessarily tentative breakdown was that round about a quarter of the net migration into the South-East over the period 1961-81 was likely to be migration for retirement; that a further quarter was likely to be migration for work from the rest of Great Britain; and the remaining half migration for work from elsewhere. This last would come from Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the Commonwealth and foreign countries.

As these figures envisage an increase of something like 550,000 people coming into London and the South-East Region from overseas, have the Government taken the trouble to discuss this problem with the London Standing Conference on Regional Planning which consists of 15 local authorities in the area, all of which are concerned about the additional strain which will be placed on housing, transport and other social services?

That, with respect, is another question, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the proportion of the total migration, based on the estimates of the Government Actuary, which has been allowed for from overseas is considerably less than it has been in the past.

In the figures for migration from other countries has the Minister included the exodus from Scotland to the south-east of England, or does his Answer refer to foreign countries or to different parts of this country which are losing population?

If the right hon. Gentleman will read what I said, he will find that I have attempted to regard the figure in three parts: migration for retirement; migration for work from other parts of Great Britain and migration for work from countries outside Great Britain.

On what grounds does my hon. Friend base his estimate that only 500,000 Commonwealth immigrants will come in to that area during the next 20 years, since my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department said recently that at least 300,000 are waiting to come in from India alone at the present time? Is he aware that on that basis the number would be 1 million?

My hon. Friend will be aware that I have to rely to a large extent on the Government Actuary. How many people are waiting to come in from India or Pakistan, or anywhere else has, with respect, no relevance to this estimate.

Of course it has.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I have received a letter from the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Labour proving that in 1963 there was a net loss of 12,000 insured workers from the Northern Region who migrated to the Midlands and the South-East? Is he aware that many thousands of insured workers are migrating already to the South-East? Can he tell us what he intends to do about that?

If I did not quite hear what the hon. Member said, I apologise, but I must stress that these estimates take account of our estimation that the Government's efforts to reinstate or increase employment in the North-East, the North-West and Scotland will be successful.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will extend his policy regarding the approval of compulsory purchase orders for residential accommodation to include cases where colour discrimination is exercised by landlords in contracts for the sale or lease of houses or flats.

The powers of compulsory purchase under Part V of the Housing Act, 1957, are concerned with the provision of housing accommodation and not with questions of colour discrimination which of course we greatly deplore.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware of the case—particulars of which I have for warded to him—of a property company in London which not only forbids property being sublet to a coloured person but even to the employer of a coloured person? If he cannot introduce legislation on this matter, will he at least use his influence among his colleagues on the Government Front Bench, and on the back benches opposite, who are shareholders or directors of this company, to try to end this practice of gross discrimination?

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman realises the great difficulty of formulating legislative provisions which would be enforceable in a matter of this sort. I can assure him that I and my colleagues—including the ones he has in mind—very much deplore this practice.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the Islington Borough Council takes a very serious view of this matter and regards it as one which can be dealt with only by legislation of a national character? Will the Minister therefore reconsider the reasons why it is not possible to introduce legislation on the lines suggested by my hon. Friend?

The hon. Gentleman will be well aware that this matter has been considered on a number of occasions and I have no reason to believe that it would be easier to draft provisions now than in the past. I will continue to keep the matter under review, but I cannot hold out any hope that this is a matter which should, or could, be dealt with by legislation.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the outcome of his review of housing subsidies; and when he intends to introduce his proposals.

The review is still in progress and it will not be possible to introduce proposals during the present Session.

Is not it true that this review has been going on for many months and that meanwhile the councils and their tenants have had the heavy burden of interest which they bear further increased because of a rise in the Bank Rate and the interest rate of the Public Works Loan Board? Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that to meet the same proportion of the annual deficit on a new house as was met 10 years ago would require the present rate of subsidy to be trebled?

The hon. Gentleman will bear in mind that this relates to the total cost of new houses. He must also bear in mind that the working party which has studied this has had to collate a great deal of information which is not uniform throughout the country. Only when that information can be put together and the result discussed with the local authority associations would it be right to make a firm proposal.

Does my hon. Friend realise that certain authorities which had introduced differential rent schemes, in order to spread the subsidy to those on their housing waiting list who really needed it, are now considering doing away with the schemes purely for political ends? Will he do everything in his power to discourage this?

I can assure my hon. Friend that, so far as my information goes, no local authority is unable to relieve genuine need by means of the existing system without over-burdening the rates.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that there are hundreds of thousands of houses in the country in respect of which no rent is paid at all and that these are in the control of the Government? What do the Government intend to do about them?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what sums of money his Department has paid to the Mutual Households Association Limited; on what dates this was done; and what conditions were involved.

From the financial year 1958–59 to date grants of £2,880 towards the cost of providing board and lodging in four of the Association's properties have been paid annually to local authorities to be passed on to the Association under arrangements made by the authorities with the Association and approved by my right hon. Friend. These arrangements incorporate a number of conditions, including conditions that the Association shall provide the apartments in respect of which the grants are made, and that they shall be let or kept available for letting.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this Association has recently served notice on one of my constituents in most unjustifiable circumstances? Will my hon. Friend look into the recent new rules of management set out by this body, and will he investigate its affairs generally in so far as he can?

I am aware of the case which my hon. Friend has in mind and his concern is shared by my right hon. Friend and myself. Nevertheless, matters of complaint regarding associations of this type are for the Registrar of Friendly Societies, who has not as yet heard both sides of the case, and I think that it would be wrong to prejudge the issue.

Does the hon. Gentleman remember that when we were discussing these kind of matters in the debates on the housing legislation which is being dealt with by the House, the Minister expressed great confidence that the existing provisions were strong enough to prevent this kind of thing from happening? Is he aware that if it does happen, it will greatly weaken the appeal to tenants of housing associations generally?

The hon. Gentleman has forgotten that under the proposed new legislation the Housing Corporation will have greater powers of mortgage than have ordinary local authorities under the existing arrangements.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs when he expects to reach a decision on the size of the old people's home to be built near The Vicarage, Tokyngton, Wembley.

I assume my hon. Friend is referring to an appeal to my right hon. Friend by the owners of this site against a certificate from Middlesex County Council which would determine the price to be paid for it. The appeal is being conducted by written representations, the exchanges of which have taken some time. My right hon. Friend hopes to be able to give his decision very soon after one of his inspectors has visited the site on 4th June.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask if he is aware that negotiations for this home have been going on now for about three years? Will he do everything possible to speed up the building, which is badly needed?

I appreciate that, but I have checked the dates when various representations were sent in and the fault of delay does not rest with my right hon. Friend's Department, but, in part at least, with one of the local authorities concerned.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware of the difficulty the local authority is experiencing consequent on his delay in reaching a decision on the Newcastle-upon-Tyne Slum Clearance Parker Street Compulsory Purchase Order 1963, on which the public inquiry took place on 10th December, 1963; and when he expects to announce his decision.

My right hon. Friend is aware of the corporation's anxiety and he expects to issue his decision within the next fortnight.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that this application was made last August and that the Minister held an inquiry last December? Will the hon. Gentleman do something to see that such extensive delay does not take place in future? We are grateful for the fact that the Minister will give a decision within a fortnight.

I should point out that there were 75 objections to the scheme. There are limits to the extent to which these things can be speeded up without completely overruling the rights of interested parties.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the purpose of the circular issued by his Welsh Office on 13th April to local authorities in Wales headed The Welsh Survey; aid to what extent authorities within the area of the Mid-Wales Industrial Development Association are affected by it, in view of the Report on Rural De-population for this area which he has had since May, 1963.

The circular was designed to give local authorities in Wales and Monmouthshire, including Mid-Wales, an opportunity to contribute views and information which might be of help in carrying out the survey.

Is the Minister aware that seven Reports on Mid-Wales have been issued since this Government have been in office? Surely to goodness this kind of information is not required after the last Report which was published last week? What is the purpose of it all? Cannot we get some action instead of Reports?

The hon. Gentleman would be the first to agree that Mid-Wales should not be left out of the general regional studies. I am equally certain that if this opportunity had not been offered to the local authorities in connection with this survey, the hon. Gentleman again would have been the first to complain. I can assure him that this further and wider survey will not prejudice action which may be taken under the Reports he has in mind and on which my right hon. Friend will make a statement very soon.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a further statement on beef supplies.

Beef is short partly because Argentina is unable to send us her usual supplies and partly because of the demand on world supplies from Continental countries. On the other hand home supplies should be well maintained and there are good supplies of other meat available.

Does the Minister recall that two years ago he had to come to the House to ask for a Supplementary Estimate for £78 million, principally for beef? Does he agree that his present policy still results in uncertainty as to how much the housewife will have to pay week by week for the meat which she buys; secondly, how much the Exchequer will have to provide; and, thirdly, how much the farmer will eventually get for the calf which he raises? Has not the time come for a thorough inquiry as to where the subsidies go and what effect they are having, and should there not be some co-ordination between home supplies, home needs and overseas trade?

The difference between the year to which the hon. Gentleman referred and this year was that there was a total difference in the world supply and demand situation. No policy devised by Her Majesty's Government could influence the output of beef from the Argentine in any one year following upon a drought, or indeed the level of demand or the level of output on the continent of Europe.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that the number of beef cattle imported into this country in the first four months of this year was more than treble the amount of beef cattle exported from it and, further, that the increase in the number of beef cattle imported over the number imported in the corresponding period last year was more than half as much again as the increase in the number exported in the same period?

I would not without notes give exact confirmation of the figures my hon. Friend suggests, but the figures of imports were infinitely greater than any figures of exports.

Surely the Minister must accept some responsibility? His failure has led to rationing by the purse of a very important commodity, and the price of beef has increased considerably. Is not the Minister aware that the crisis in the Argentine should have been known months ago and he should have acted much more quickly? Will he give an assurance that he will stimulate production over the next two years? Can he say what will be the extent of supplies from the Commonwealth?

The reason for the rise in the price of beef on our market in recent months has been the fact that we pursue here a free market from which the people of this country have drawn enormous benefit over the years. What the hon. Gentleman means by "rationing by the purse" is that the price of beef has risen because of the alteration in the balance of supply and demand. We look forward to the opportunity when he will tell the House and the country what he will do—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."]—when he will tell the House what arrangements he would make other than allowing the price of meat to rise, which inevitably happens in the workings of a free market when the supply and demand balance has changed.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that a great deal of damage is being done by exaggeration of the shortages of supply and, still more, by exaggeration of the increases in price, which in many cases have not happened at all?

I know that my right hon. Friend will have noticed that, although the prices rose over a matter of some weeks earlier in the year, in the past couple of weeks they have in fact been falling.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his statement this afternoon will be small comfort to the housewives who have continually been paying increasing prices? If the statement of the right hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Mr. Turton) is true, does it not mean that the people concerned in selling beef use the housewife as a pawn in the game to get more profits from the so-called shortages? What assurance will the Minister give to the housewife that she will be able to buy beef at reasonable prices in the future?

I disagree profoundly with the hon. Lady. I believe that housewives appreciate the great advantages they have gained and do gain from the operation of the free market in this country they would not like it to be interfered with.

rose—

We have much to do. We cannot debate this matter now.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations and the Colonies whether he will make a statement on the present situation in Cyprus.

With permission I will make a statement at the end of Questions.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations and the Colonies if he will make a statement about the proposed constitutional conference for the South Arabian Federation.

The conference of which I gave particulars to the House on 14th May will open at Lancaster House on 9th June.

Is it intended to invite the political leaders of Aden Colony, particularly remembering that possibly after the election they will be in control?

I think that the right hon. Member will have seen the statement I made a little time ago on this question explaining why we were confining the conference to the representatives of Governments.

As a result of representations made from this side of the House, will the right hon. Gentleman give the matter further consideration with a view to inviting the political leaders of Aden Colony?

I am always happy to receive representations from the party opposite.

What were the reasons my right hon. Friend advanced for not holding an election in Aden and the area to decide who are the proper political leaders? What made him decide not to hold a general election in advance of the conference? What advantage is there in having a conference of people who are not properly elected?

That, of course, is quite a different question.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider raising the state of emergency in the Colony of Aden while his hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State is there holding consultations with the various political groups?

I was in Aden myself the other day. I must say that no one would know that there was a state of emergency there. It does not interfere with normal life. All the people who would wish to be consulted or invited to such meetings are freely available to express their opinions.

Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider his decision to limit representation at this conference to representatives of Governments? Would it not be possible to bring to the conference representatives of the very popular People's Socialist Party in Aden? [Interruption.] Yes, the dominant party. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether he believes that any solution of this problem is possible unless he confers with the representatives of the popular movements in the area?

As they do in Ghana?

We have already to accommodate around the table the representatives of 14 different States. That is going to be quite difficult enough. If we enlarged the conference and included outside elements from all those States we should have a conference which would be quite unmanageable. When I was in Aden the other day I had a long meeting with representatives of all the main political parties, including the P.S.P., in which the hon. Member is interested. I am fully aware of their views on all these questions.

Am I to understand from the right hon. Gentleman's reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Dundee, East (Mr. G. M. Thomson) that it is possible for political meetings to be held in Aden? If not, why not?

The position is that while the state of emergency is on political meetings are not permitted. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] When I said that I had a meeting I meant a private meeting. As the right hon. Member for Middlesbrough, East (Mr. Bottomley) knows, that would not fall within the terms of the restrictions on movement and political assemblies under the emergency.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations and the Colonies if he will make a statement about his talks with the Prime Minister of Malta.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations and the Colonies if he will make a statement on his recent talks with the Prime Minister of Malta, and on the results of the recent constitutional referendum.

I am at present having talks with the Prime Minister of Malta and I will make a full statement as soon as possible.

We shall await this statement, but in the meantime may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether any further consideration has been given to the suggestion that perhaps the referendum has shown that elections before independence are desirable?

The right hon. Gentleman will not press me to anticipate my statement.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say roughly how long we shall have to wait for that statement? Is it a matter of weeks or a matter of days?

More than days—weeks; or a week, maybe. But perhaps I could make this clear, to avoid any misunderstanding: the British Government's offer of early independence to Malta naturally stands, but the constitutional question remains to be resolved, and it is on this that I am having these talks with the Prime Minister of Malta.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations and the Colonies if he will now make a statement about constitutional changes in Bechuanaland.

As a result of discussions initiated by the Resident Commissioner during the second half of last year representatives of all political parties and other important groups in Bechuanaland formulated unanimous proposals for the revision of their Constitution.

While thanking the Minister very much for that statement, and while wanting to read the White Paper before making a final comment, may I ask whether he can give some indication of when the general elections are likely to take place which are to follow these constitutional changes?

Next March.