asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he now proposes to take in order to restore confidence in the herring industry.

Over the last two or three years the financial results of herring catching have been reasonably good for most of the boats concerned, the majority of which are now able to choose between this and other forms of fishing as they see fit. It would seem, therefore, that there are good reasons why the fishermen should have confidence in their future. My right hon. Friend and the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food will shortly be laying before Parliament their proposals for fisheries subsidies for the coming subsidy year.

Is my hon. Friend aware that what has shaken confidence amongst the fishermen were the recent revelations by the Herring Industry Board? Will he give an assurance on two points: first, that the Government believe in, and will support, a prosperous, efficient and developing herring industry; and, secondly, that that industry will be efficiently administered in the future?

I am, of course, aware that the herring fishermen have been extremely critical of the Board's mistake over the price of surplus herring in Stornoway last winter, but we must keep a sense of proportion. A mistake was made, but there is no indication that it was more than an isolated one. The Board has done its best to rectify the mistake and has offered to meet the fishermen's representatives regularly and to consider any suggestions they may have to make. I would affirm that the Government are anxious to see a prosperous herring industry.

In order to assist that prosperous herring industry, can the hon. Gentleman tell me why the herring is becoming such a scarce commodity for the Scottish housewives?

The herring is by no means scarce, if the housewife wishes to buy it. It is a cheap and excellent food, and if only people would eat more than one herring a month the whole future of the industry would be assured.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the estimated value of school building at present under construction.

The total value of school building work under construction at 31st May, 1964, the latest date for which information is available, was £44·illion, the highest figure so far achieved.

Is not this position very satisfactory, and does it not reflect great credit on the Government, the local authorities and the building industry in Scotland?

Yes, Sir.

Over how many years is this figure spread? Does it include the two technical colleges, in Ayr and in Kilmarnock, which were first given highest priority in 1955 but which have not yet been completed?

The question referred to school building.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has completed his consideration of the need for special financial provision for school building purposes for local authorities which have a new town within their boundaries; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has accepted a recommendation of the Local Government Finance (Scotland) Working Party that the general grant distribution formula which has applied since 1959 should continue unaltered until the review of local government finance which is now in progress has been completed. The Working Party rejected the suggestion that special financial provision for school building is needed by local authorities with a new town in their boundaries.

Does not the noble Lady realise that those authorities in Scotland which have new towns are finding it very difficult to provide the schools which the rest of the child population desperately need? Is she aware that the provision of schools in East Kilbride new town and the big development in Bishop-briggs, providing schools for pupils who previously had no connection with Lanarkshire, is starving the rest of Lanarkshire of schools? May I emphasise once again that, if I had a child allocated to one of these schools in Lanarkshire outside the two new towns, some of which are in a scandalous condition, I would go to gaol before my child would enter it?

In areas which have either overspill or growth areas or new towns, account is taken of the extra needs in the investment authorisation.

In Dunbartonshire we have the new town of Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch has an overspill agreement with Glasgow which is working very successfully, but education in Dunbartonshire and the provision of schools is very difficult indeed. Will the noble Lady look into the matter again and see to it that in Dunbartonshire particularly some extra help is given for the county school programme?

As the Working Party specifically recommended against any change until after the Local Government Review, I cannot give the hon. Gentleman that assurance.

Surely, the noble Lady must have been convinced by what has been shown in debate after debate, that there is a great distorting factor here in the provision which must be made within a county for a new town. Will she reconsider this business? How long is the Review to take? Are we to be bound by a recommendation made by a Working Party if we ourselves have no great confidence in its ability adequately to deal with this matter? Why cannot this be separated and dealt with now, since the problem is here?

The major local authority associations were represented on the Working Party. I said in answer to an earlier Question that the present amount of school building under construction in Scotland is a record.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many houses he now expects to be completed in Scotland in 1964.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will estimate the number of houses he expects to be completed in 1964; and how many of these will be for private owners.

About 34,000 houses should be completed by all agencies this year, of which some 7,000 are likely to be built for private owners.

Is not this also a record, for a great many years at least? Can my hon. Friend say whether any particular building agency is responsible for this more than any other?

It is a satisfactory figure and reflects the energetic work of all the building agencies concerned. More than 48,000 houses are now under construction, and this is the highest number since the war.

But is not the figure which the hon. Member for Galloway (Mr. Brewis) described as a record still 6,000 less than that reached in 1953 as a result of the planning of the Labour Government? Is it not a fact that if that 1953 figure had been maintained we would have had 100,000 more houses in Scotland today?

I should add that there are no fewer than 40,000 public authority houses currently under consideration, so the public authorities are clearly pressing ahead vigorously.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that last week he informed me that only 22,000 local authority houses were expected to be completed this year? According to the figures which were given today, he has said that something like 7,000 private houses will be built in 1964. Is he aware that in 1957, the last occasion on which the Government managed to reach the high figure of 28,000, only about 3,500 private houses were built and that in my constituency, in Kinghorn, where 48 private houses were built recently, no local authority houses were built for people in need? When will the Government so alter the subsidy structure that local authorities can build houses?

I pointed out that the local authorities are building at a high rate and that a great number are now under construction. I am glad to note the increase in private enterprise building, which we also encourage. This is essential in order to accommodate the first-class management, scientists and technologists who are needed in industry in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the annual average of houses completed, as expressed in terms of apartments, for the two periods 1945–51 and 1958–63, respectively.

Information available about houses provided by public authorities is in the form of tenders approved, not of houses completed. I shall, with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a table showing the average number of different house-sizes provided

Why could not the hon. Gentleman give the two figures I asked for? I have sought to work them out myself and they show that the number of apartments provided in the first period was at least as great as in the second period. This reveals the stupidity and silliness of seeking to make comparisons in terms of houses built. Will not the hon. Gentleman consider putting into the Housing Return in future an additional table showing the number of apartments provided instead of the number of houses? Does not he recognise that, in the first period, the number of four and five-apartment houses provided was 58 per cent. and in the second 19 per cent.? Does not this make nonsense of talking about a house as if it were a homogeneous commodity?

Public authorities are free to build the size of houses they need. Since the war, 45 per cent. of public authority houses have been of the four-apartment size or over. There is now a need for smaller houses. One category in particular which will benefit from this is the elderly. They need such houses. During the second of the two periods mentioned by the hon. Gentleman, 7,500 more houses per year were built.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) how many pupils remain at school in Scotland after attaining the age of 17;

On 15th January, 1964, there were 66,000 pupils at public and grant-aided schools in Scotland aged 15 and over. Of these, 12,400 were 17 and over.

Can my noble Friend tell the House how these figures compare with the corresponding figures of 10 years ago?

There are twice as many pupils aged 15 and over in Scottish schools as there were 10 years ago, and the proportions in each age group have doubled.

Would the noble Lady call the attention of the Press to these remarkable figures and point out that all juveniles today are not delinquents but that they are attending schools full-time and evening classes to a record number?

I quite agree with the right hon. Gentleman, and I hope that the Press will take note of his comment.

We are all gratified at the number remaining longer at school, but is the noble Lady aware of our concern that last year of the number who left school and those who continued at school beyond the leaving age, 15,300 did not complete a five-year secondary course and that the test is whether or not the courses have been completed? It was certainly an increase from the previous year, but we have no room for complacency.

I quite agree; that is why we have decided to raise the school-leaving age in 1970–71.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps are being taken to make the provisions of the Succession (Scotland) Act known to the public.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the Reply my right hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member for Edinburgh, Leith (Mr. Hoy) on 17th June.

Does my noble Friend agree that this Act underlines the need for people to make wills and the wisdom of so doing?

Yes, Sir. However carefully the Act has been framed, it cannot be anything but a substitute for the making of a will, and I hope that everyone will note how important it is to make a will.

Is the noble Lady aware that the vast majority of women in Scotland know the provisions of the Bill, since they waited many years to get it and had to depend upon this side of the House pushing the Government to bring it forward?

The fact remains that it was this Government that got the Bill on the Statute Book.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when legal aid in criminal cases will start operating.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he intends to appoint a day for the coming into operation of Clause 48 of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act, 1963.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further progress has now been made in preparing for the introduction of legal aid in criminal causes under the Criminal Justice Act, 1963.

The necessary preparatory work is now well advanced and it is hoped to start operating the Criminal Legal Aid Scheme in the autumn.

Will my noble Friend press ahead as quickly as possible with this matter and give attention to methods of publicising the scheme when it comes into operation?

Yes, Sir.

Is the noble Lady aware that last year she promised that this scheme would come into force on 1st April of this year? Is it not quite scandalous that after all this shillyshallying over the past 12 years we were told that it was to come into operation on 1st April and now we are told that it will come into operation in October? Why should we have to lag so many years behind England in this matter? Is not it quite disgraceful?

I indeed said that I hoped that it would be possible to bring the scheme into operation in the financial year 1963–64, but all those concerned are working very hard on the preparatory work and it should be ready by the autumn.

Will the noble Lady ensure that persons who are tried and found not guilty and whose trial has involved expense in legal costs are provided with costs or indemnity? It would be unjust otherwise.

That is another question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what are the current investment figures in the Highlands and Islands through public investment, loan or grant under the following headings, namely, roads, tourism, electricity, including nuclear power stations, and other industries.

As the Answer consists of a table of figures, I shall, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Can my hon. Friend ensure that, despite the importance of the plan for central Scotland, the rate of investment in the Highlands continues and is increased on present figures, because this is of tremendous importance to the Highlands?

I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of this, and it is certainly my right hon. Friend's intention that the Highlands and Islands shall continue to benefit from public investment. An important contribution is the Exchequer expenditure connected with the pulp mill. Another is the fact that the Highland counties are development districts and qualify for financial assistance under the Local Employment Act.

Will the hon. Gentleman take every advantage of whatever means there are to give widespread publicity to the dependence of the constituency of the hon. Member for Inverness (Mr. N. McLean) on public investment? Could he also think of adding to the list of figures one showing the number of Questions which the hon. Member for Inverness has asked about this matter over the last four years?

I do not think that it is necessary to do the first, because my hon. Friend the Member for Inverness (Mr. N. McLean) made a very good speech on the subject recently. The important point which he made was that these important industries should not be under the threat of nationalisation.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what are the current investment figures in the Highlands and Islands through public investment, loan or grant under the following headings, namely, crofting, rural industries and shipping services.

As the Answer consists of a table of figures, I shall, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Can my hon. Friend break down the figures for crofting into those amounts given for agricultural improvements and those given for the improvement of the tourist side of the crofting economy?

At a quick glance, I think that the increase is roughly the same between 1963–64 and 1964–65. It appears that the increase in those two years was roughly 10 per cent. on agricultural production and about 12 per cent. on housing which might be attributed to improvements with a view to furthering the tourist trade.

Could the hon. Gentleman include in the figures the total amount of private investment in the Highlands?

Not without notice.

The hon. Gentleman is getting the notice.

Could the hon. Gentleman add to the figures the public money which has gone under the Labour Government's equalisation grant to provide local services in the Highlands, which amount in some cases to between 90 per cent. and 95 per cent. of the expenditure?

I do not think that those figures are included, but if the right hon. Gentleman cares to put a Question down we will answer it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will take steps to ensure that food grown by factory farm methods has its source designated for the benefit of the consumer by the retailer, in view of the fact that it is of inferior quality to that produced in the normal way.

No, Sir. I know of no evidence to support the hon. Member's view that food produced by intensive methods is of inferior quality.

In view of the hon. Gentleman's ignorance on the subject, would he pursue his inquiries a little more closely and deeply than evidently he has done? Is he aware that the practice of designating food supplies, both liquid and solid, as to source and quality is now widely followed by those who have no reason to fear any challenge to their products? Would he not approve of it and encourage it in these new methods of producing food which have now developed?

It is true, as I think we discussed last night, that there are regulations under the Food and Drugs Act which give power to prescribe labelling to protect the public against buying food which is different from or inferior to what they want to buy, but there is no evidence, in the true meaning of the word, that this intensively produced food is inferior in quality.

Is the Minister aware that while the regulations to which he refers protect the animal which is fed the commodities which are suspect, particularly in the case of arsenical compounds, there is no regulation known—if there is one perhaps the hon. Gentleman will quote it—which protects the consumer against the amount of the animal that he may eat carrying those dangerous products?

Let me repeat that there is no evidence of food being inferior in quality.

Then what is it?

Is my hon. Friend aware of the considerable anxiety in all sections of the community, including the farming community, about factory farm methods, and would he see if any regulation could be made laying down conditions under which animals should be kept in these farms or factories?

I shall certainly take note of that suggestion. It is a fact, of course, that a Committee is about to investigate the whole question of the condition under which animals are being kept under intensive methods, and this, I am quite sure, will be a subject of which it will take note.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will set up a committee to examine and report on the provisions made for road safety in Scotland.

My right hon. Friend is considering with the Minister of Transport how best to give a new impetus to road safety activities, and he will bear the hon. Member's suggestion in mind.

In view of the fact that Scotland has some responsibility in this matter, that road accidents are increasing, and that the reports from the various authorities in Scotland show varying success records and that efforts differ very widely on how to tackle this problem, would it not be worth while, in Scotland, to have a committee to examine this problem so that it could give guidance to local authorities and others as to the best methods and organisations to deal with it?

As I said, this suggestion will be taken into account. The hon. Member has described what he has in mind, and I know that he has studied this matter very fully. I can assure him that his suggestion will be considered.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when and where the inquiry into the typhoid epidemic in Aberdeen will hold its sittings; and what evidence it will call.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland where the inquiry into the typhoid epidemic at Aberdeen will hold its meetings.

These are matters for the Committee to decide. I understand that they intend to hold meetings in Aberdeen, Edinburgh or elsewhere, as occasion requires.

Now that the epidemic in Aberdeen is happily over, will the Minister see that the inquiry is as expeditious and as complete as possible, so that Aberdeen can quickly regain its traditional reputation as a clean and healthy seaside resort?

I know that the Committee is aware of my right hon. Friend's desire to have its report as quickly as possible, but when the precise date will be I would not like to say. I should like to pay tribute to the public health authorities and to the public in Aberdeen for the quite miraculous way in which the disease has been contained.

As to the places where the Committee will meet, may I ask the Minister to be more explicit? Could it possibly require a meeting anywhere eise outside Edinburgh or Aberdeen?

There was a meeting in London initially, and I believe that the Committee met in Aberdeen yesterday and proposes to meet there again, but it is not impossible, perhaps, to seek some kind of bacteriological evidence from experts, that it may wish to sit in London.

Apart from the actual meetings of the Committee, could I ask my hon. Friend to press on his right hon. Friend once more the need to make it clear to Britain as a whole, through any contacts that he may have with the Press and otherwise, that the epidemic has now subsided and that it is quite safe for people from other parts of Britain to book their tourist holidays in Scotland from now on? There have been cancellations in hotels in my area in the South-East and the Borders, and I think that people have not been sufficiently informed that the danger is over and that they can well book their reservations for August at least.

I think that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made it clear on Tuesday that Scotland is a large place and that holidays in Scotland are perfectly safe. It gave me great satisfaction to see in the newspapers this morning that in certain parts, namely on the Western Coast, the tourist traffic has built up to a peak much sooner than usual.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will so frame the terms of reference of the proposed inquiry into the typhoid epidemic in Aberdeen as to enable its members to assess the loss and damage sustained by shipowners and crews and by owners and workers in hotels, boarding houses, shops and other businesses, and to make appropriate recommendations.

My right hon. Friend announced on 8th June the terms of reference of the Committee of Inquiry, and it has already started its work. The purpose of the Committee is to investigate the source of the epidemic, and my right hon. Friend does not think it would be appropriate to ask it to consider the different questions raised by the hon. and learned Member.

But does not the hon. Gentleman realise that precedents show that in typhoid epidemics elsewhere similar committees dealt with the question of compensation? Will he make it clear to the Committee now sitting that it should construe its terms of reference in such a way as to enable it to deal with the question of compensation?

I am afraid that I cannot give that assurance. If the hon. and learned Gentleman would like to give me details of the examples which he has quoted, I will certainly invite my right hon. Friend to draw them to the Committee's attention. My impression is that on previous occasions committees of inquiry into the causes of the outbreak did not deal with compensation. However, if I am wrong, I hope that the hon. and learned Gentleman will let me know.

The hon. Gentleman is wrong.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many hospital patients in Scotland were suffering from tuberculosis during each of the years 1951, 1957 and 1963.

The numbers of hospital beds occupied by patients suffering from respiratory or non-respiratory tuberculosis in the years in question were as follows:

The figures given by the Minister will be welcomed by the people of Scotland. May I ask my hon. Friend if the beds occupied formerly by T.B. cases are now available for general hospital use?

There is certainly no surplus of beds to hospital requirements. The greatly lessened need for such beds over the past few years has resulted in the closure of some of these types of hospitals, either in whole or in part, and the diversion of beds in others to different uses, for example the accommodation of geriatric patients.

Could the hon. Gentleman try to correct the impression that he has given by stating the number of patients admitted rather than the number of beds that were used. If he will look at the figures which I had in answer to a similar Question a few days ago, he will discover that I was given an entirely different set of figures. Although the trend was much the same, there was a greater number of patients—7,900 and 4,500.

I shall certainly take note of that. I am afraid that my memory does not carry the number of figures which the hon. Gentleman has given.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many-cases of cancer were notified in Scotland in each of the past five years.

Cancer is not a statutorily notifiable disease. The numbers of deaths from cancer in the last five years, however, were as follows:

Does my hon. Friend realise the great anxiety that there is throughout Scotland at the enormous increase of this dread disease, and can I have an assurance that neither money nor effort will be spared to try to arrest and combat this dreadful disease?

Yes, Sir.

; Can the hon. Gentleman say what steps the Government are taking to step up their campaign against smoking because of the connection between smoking and cancer?

It is a fact that the great increase in the cause of cancer lies in cancer of the lungs. Continuing efforts are being made to improve the methods of earlier diagnosis and treatment, and the Government and local health and education authorities are carrying out a campaign to try to educate the public about the risk involved in smoking.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what information he has about the progress of the construction of the Cockenzie power station.

I am informed by the South of Scotland Electricity Board that work is proceeding satisfactorily and to schedule. The Board hopes to have the first of the four sets in operation by 1966.

Can my hon. Friend tell me when the work will be completed and the whole station working, and what effect it will then have on the number of people employed in the coal mining industry?

It is hoped to have the station in full production by 1968. It should keep about 5,000 miners employed.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he intends to arrange for training and instruction of magistrates in Scotland, and if he will make a statement.

As my right hon. Friend stated in reply to the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy (Mr. Gourlay) on 10th June, he already encourages local arrangements for courses of lectures for justices.

Will my hon. Friend step up the arrangements so that, in the interests of justice, magistrates will not be as much in the hands of their clerks as they have been up to now?

Yes, Sir. A good deal is being done to encourage these local courses.

In a reply which I received the other week, it was stated that a new manual was being produced, "What the Scots Magistrate Ought to Know." Will the noble Lady give an assurance that when this manual is ready she will circularise all local authorities in Scotland requesting them to supply copies to all the magistrates?

This manual was published in 1955. It is being revised and brought up to date. There will be a free issue to justices, and all clerks of the court will be told about it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many combine-harvesters there were at work in Scotland during the 1963 harvest; and what was the equivalent figure 10 years previously.

Information is not available about the number of combine-harvesters at work during a particular harvest, but the Agricultural Machinery Census of February, 1964, shows that there were then 5,531 combine-harvesters in Scotland. The total at the corresponding census in 1954 was 1,245.

In view of this remark able increase showing the energy and enterprise of Scottish farmers to take advantage of modern machinery and modern methods, can my hon. Friend say approximately how much of the 1963 harvest was reaped in this way and what was the increased productivity?

I cannot give any specific figures. As we move about Scotland during harvest time our eyes give us a pretty good indication that the proportion of the total acreage harvested in this way is very large. I do not think that there are any precise figures available about the increased productivity. For my own part, I would hazard the guess that it might well be one or two bags extra on every acre.

In view of the representations of the Scottish farmers to Members recently, can the hon. Gentleman say how the Scottish farmers could afford these very expensive machines? Was there any application to the National Assistance Board to enable them to purchase them?

Farmers are most remarkable people.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is yet satisfied that a humane substitute has been found in Scotland for the gin traps: and if he will make a statement.

No humane and reasonably effective substitute for the gin trap has yet been found for use under Scottish conditions against foxes and otters, which are the only two remaining permissible uses. Every effort is being made to find a satisfactory alternative.

Since a suitable humane trap has been found for England and Wales, why could not my hon. Friend authorise a similar trap for Scotland?

I think that that is putting a slightly different inflection on the problem. Most of Scotland is hill country where it is extremely difficult to hunt foxes efficiently. It is also very difficult to gas them. In Scotland foxes do a great deal of damage to lambs, which form a much higher proportion of the livestock population than they do in England.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the hon. Member for Ayr (Sir T. Moore) is of the opinion that a humane alternative to the gin trap is birth control pills for rabbits? Is he further aware that the rabbit problem is causing great concern in Ayrshire and that we would welcome a safe period-say, between April and October? Does the hon. Gentleman know that the only reason why the hon. Member for Ayr does not advocate this is that he is awaiting a decision by the eminent ecclesiastical authorities?

I say to the hon. Member in reply to his suggestion about contraceptives for rabbits that many a true word is spoken in jest.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the hon. Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Emrys Hughes) is talking complete nonsense, as he very often does?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give an approximate starting and finishing date for the new general hospital to be built in Airdrie; and if he will make a statement.

This project is at present expected to start in 1968 and to take about four years to complete.

Will the plans be completed by 1968? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that planning is being held up because the planners are tackling this onerous task only in their spare time? In view of the fact that general hospitals in this part of the country are already a century out of date, is it not about time that the hon. Gentleman expedited the starting of this new building?

My information is that the start is not being held up because of planning delays. The starting date of this scheme could not be brought forward without disturbing an order of priority which was settled after full consideration of hospital needs.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell us who was consulted and by what process of consultation the order of priority putting Motherwell after Airdrie was decided?

There was certainly correspondence with the chairmen of the regional hospital boards, who were well aware of what was intended.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, in cooperation with other interested bodies, he will launch a health and hygiene campaign, with a view to giving the general public greater protection against the outbreak and spread of typhoid and other serious epidemics; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend is sure that the Aberdeen outbreak has brought home to all concerned the importance of cleanliness in avoiding the spread of infection, and the chief medical officer wrote on 8th June to all medical officers of health recommending them to reinforce continuous food hygiene teaching to traders and the public. To help in this, posters were distributed to local health authorities and hospitals.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his right hon. Friend is wrong in this respect, and does not he realise that thousands of people who are taking meals from certain restaurants would never dream of eating them if they knew the unhygienic conditions in which the meals had been cooked? Is it not about time that we reinforced the sanitary inspectorate for this purpose and appealed to proprietors, consumers and all who handle food, either directly or indirectly, to have a widespread campaign in Scotland to improve present standards of hygiene?

My right hon. Friend is well aware of this problem. The Scottish Food Hygiene Council considered it at its last meeting. The Council has proposals in preparation and expects to make recommendations after its next meeting.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will state, for the latest year available, the average cost of store cattle produced by farmers in the East of Scotland; what was the average realisation price; and what profit or loss accrued to the feeder.

Figures of costs of store cattle in the East of Scotland, their eventual realisation prices and the resulting profit or loss vary enormously with the age of the animals, the system of feeding and management and other factors. I refer my hon. Friend to the recent report, "Costs of Cattle Production 1962–63", from the Edinburgh School of Agriculture, which shows the results for a number of different systems of feeding on a sample of farms in the South-East of Scotland.

Having regard to the public interest in meat prices, will my hon. Friend agree that these figures show that some feeders make a very small profit and others make a loss, the high price of meat being due to world shortage and, for instance, the doubling of the amount bought by the Common Market in the last two years, not to any increased profit accruing to Scottish fanners?

I notice from the report that there were 109 enterprises examined, and it is certainly true that the profits shown were disappointing. I agree with my hon. Friend that it is, initially, a world shortage of meat, particularly of beef, which is causing the high prices in the market at present.

Can the hon. Gentleman say what the profits of the wholesalers and distributors are, because there is a vast body of opinion in the country which feels that this is where the housewife's purse is being filched, rather than at the farmer's end?

I could not give that figure without notice, but, if the hon. Gentleman is anxious to have it, I commend to him the Verdon Smith Report which, I believe, went into the matter in great detail.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the expenditure for the year 1963–64 per head of population in new construction and major improvements on roads in Scotland.

Expenditure in 1963–64 on new construction and major improvements on roads in Scotland was about £3 10s. per head of population.

How does this figure per head compare with the equivalent figure for England and Wales?

The comparable figure for England and Wales is £2 15s.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many miles of the A.74 dual carriageway from Glasgow to the English Border have been completed; how many are at present under construction; on how many miles construction has not yet commenced; and what is the estimated date of completion of each of these two last categories.

I refer my hon. Friend to the Reply my right hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member for Dunbartonshire, West (Mr. Steele) on 22nd June.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the A.74 carries about three-quarters of all the road traffic between Scotland and England? Will he, therefore, regard it as a matter of special urgency to have the work pressed ahead on the section which constitutes something of a bottleneck between Beattock in Dumfries and the Lanarkshire county boundary, and can he state when work on that section will begin?

My right hon. Friend recognises the importance of the road to which my hon. and learned Friend refers. I can tell my hon. and learned Friend that the Secretary of State has just authorised Dumfries County Council as his agents to seek tenders for the scheme which he mentioned, and work should start this summer.

In the reply which the Secretary of State gave me earlier this week, it was said that this whole stretch from Uddingston to the Border would be finished by 1970, but I had a letter in 1955 saying that it would be finished by 1965. Since the project is now five years behind anyway, may we have a firm assurance that the work will, in fact, be completed by 1970?

I can repeat what my right hon. Friend said to the hon. Gentleman in his earlier Answer. It is certainly his intention that the work should be completed by 1970.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now set up a single negotiating body for the Probation Service; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend and the Home Secretary will shortly be writing to the parties concerned inviting them to consider the establishment of Great Britain negotiating machinery.

This matter has been subject to considerable delay. Can my noble Friend say whether the Government are in favour of Great Britain negotiating machinery?

They are in favour.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what proportion of working persons under 18 years of age attended day-release classes in Scotland in 1956–57 and in the latest year for which figures are available, giving proportions for boys and girls separately.

Eleven per cent. of insured persons under 18 attended day-release classes in 1956–57, and 12·4 per cent. in 1962–63. Separate figures for boys and girls are not available for 1956–57; for 1962–63 they were 20·9 per cent. for boys and 4·2 per cent. for girls.

Is it not time that all the Ministers for Scotland looked into this matter again? Is it not shameful how badly off we are in Scotland compared with other parts of Great Britain, even though other parts of Great Britain are badly off compared with what is happening elsewhere? Will the noble Lady express her shame and concern that the results are what they are, and will she see to it that something is done at once about this desperately urgent matter?

Without doubt, the figures are disappointing, but a number of new colleges have been opened in an effort to deal with the problem, and we have also passed the Industrial Training Act. I think that these measures, together with the special publicity undertaken, ought to help to improve the situation.

Will my noble Friend give special attention to increasing the present small number of girls who are given day-release?

I agree that the figures for girls are not at all good. I understand that part of the reason is that many of them do not go in for apprenticeships, and also, of course, employers are inclined to think that they may get married. No doubt this is true, but I do not share this view about girls—[Laughter.] I hope that girls will get married, but I do not share the view that employers should not try to let them go on day-release. What we have done in the new colleges which are coming into use is to encourage the authorities to give, for instance, commercial education and catering education. We hope that this will assist.

What action have the Scottish Office taken since the publication of the Henniker-Heaton Report on day-release?

What I said in answer to the last supplementary question gave some indication of what we are doing. Of course, we did have the equivalent of the Henniker-Heaton Report in 1962, and we are studying that as well.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how the figures for 1963 compare with the previous year in respect of crimes of violence against the person, including sexual offences.

The number of crimes against the person made known to the police in Scotland in 1963 was 4,604, of which 2,084 were sexual offences. The corresponding figures for 1962 were 4,508 and 2,079.

I admit that I cannot say that there is much increase, but, in view of the figures which my noble Friend has given, does not my noble Friend agree that there is still the need for far more severe punishment—

Corporal punishment?

—yes, preferably physical—and that this should be adopted in Scotland?

No, Sir; we are not in favour of the reintroduction of corporal punishment.

Do the crimes of violence listed include offences committed by motorists under the influence of drink, which are causing a great deal of concern in Ayrshire? Is it proposed to introduce flogging for such cases?

No, Sir.

Is my noble friend satisfied that a Bill similar to the Malicious Damage Bill is necessary in Scotland, or is the law adequate, in her opinion, to deal with hooliganism?

I think that the law at present is adequate. A great deal is done by the police, so far as they can, in crime prevention.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now take steps to set up a Highland Development Authority.

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend takes the view that the setting up of a Highland Development Authority is a matter for consideration in the light of the outcome of the Scottish Development Group's current review of the Highlands and Islands.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his right hon. Friend is wrong, that this matter has been under consideration for years and years, and that the north of Scotland cries out now for some executive action by a body which is not merely advisory but which has a duty to act and some finance? Will the hon. Gentleman read the introduction by Crowther to the Buchanan Report which makes quite clear that development authorities are the solution to the imbalance which exists between different parts of the country?

It is true that a great deal of the activity in the Highlands does need co-ordination, but where coordination is required it can be achieved through the action of the Secretary of State and his Departments, with the advice of bodies like the Highlands Panel or the recently established Highland Transport Board.

Has my hon. Friend been given any indication by the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Grimond) and others of the powers that they would be prepared to take out of the hands of the local authorities and give to a body like the one suggested? That is a very important factor.

It is one of the considerable problems involved.

The Government say that co-ordinating action should be achieved by the Secretary of State, but is it not the case, certainly in transport, that such action has not been forthcoming and that there is conflicting advice from various advisory bodies in relation to what is being done by the Minister of Transport and the Secretary of State? Is it not also true that the Government always manage to find a reason for saying "No" to taking the right action in the Highlands? Is it not time that we had a body with executive authority and suitably backed with adequate finance?

The Highland Transport Board has a promising future and I expect great things of it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he will give authority for a permanent bridge to be erected to replace the temporary Bailey bridge on the A.9 trunk road which passes over the Conon river.

My right hon. Friend hopes to authorise replacement of this bridge within the next three or four years.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Does my hon. Friend realise that this is a main trunk road and that it has had this Bailey bridge for over eight years? Does he know that the bridge has had to be closed because it is breaking down? This would not be tolerated in the South. Will he put more drive and energy into this and see that a two-way bridge is started immediately?

I fully understand my hon. Friend's concern about this. I, too, live in the North and I am familiar with this bridge. Within the last few days the county council has been in direct touch with the Department and the matter is under consideration at this moment. I am sorry that I cannot say more at present, but I will keep in close touch.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will increase his proposed grant of £4,000 in respect of Carberry Tower youth leadership training and conference centre of the Church of Scotland.

My right hon. Friend has already increased from £4,000 to £6,250 his offer of grant for the further extension and adaptation now proposed.

The figure of £6,250 is certainly better than £4,000, but is not the hon. Lady aware that excellent work is done at this centre in training for youth leadership? She must also be aware of how important it is in these days that as many youth leaders as possible should be trained. Will she give further consideration to giving an even bigger grant to the Church of Scotland for this purpose?