asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will make a statement on the proposals of Her Majesty's Government for securing continuity of employment in the aircraft manufacturing industry.

No, Sir. I am unable to anticipate the results of the review of the aircraft industry which I am about to undertake, but I can assure my hon. Friend that, in this review, the need for continuity of employment will be taken fully into account.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I am grateful for that undertaking, which I expected? There was increasing anxiety about employment in the industry under the last Government, and the assurances which my right hon. Friend has already given have been of value. While we are reviewing the question of contracts for the sale of aeroplanes abroad, will my right hon. Friend discuss with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence for the Royal Air Force the question of outstanding contracts for the purchase of planes abroad?

I will certainly keep in touch with my right hon. Friend on all these matters.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the order for Buccaneers for South Africa would be of very great value in securing continuity of employment in the aircraft industry?

The question of Buccaneers for South Africa is another question.

asked the Minister of Aviation what official consultations with outside bodies he intends to have in connection with the future size, programme and projects of the aircraft industry.

I have nothing to add to the reply I gave my hon. Friend on 11th November in answer to a similar Question.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the meantime there is grave and deep anxiety among aircraft workers engaged in projects like the Concord, TSR2 and HS681 that the abandonment of those major projects is likely to lead to a major redundancy? Is he further aware that there are many apprentices and aeronautical students, too, who will hesitate to enter what they might regard as being a disintegrating industry? In those circumstances, will my right hon. Friend announce a decision very soon as to whether it is the Government's intention to continue with these projects?

Many of these projects are matters not only for myself but for my right hon. Friends the Secretaries of State for Defence. I can assure my hon. Friend that we shall try to give stability to the aircraft industry as soon as possible, and I hope that he and others, too, in the meantime will do nothing to give currency to the view that this is, as he put it, a disintegrating industry.

Did I understand the Minister to say that he was about to conduct an inquiry into the aircraft industry? If so, is it not a little odd after the difficulties which have arisen, to put them no higher, over the Concord and the Buccaneers, that he did not start the inquiry the moment he started making inquiries into the Concord?

I gave the House the reasons the week before last why I thought it necessary that we should have an urgent review of the Concord project. I hope to make an announcement about the review of the industry as a whole in the fairly, but I am sure that the hon. Member would not wish the terms under which this review is to be conducted to be rushed unduly.

asked the Minister of Aviation what he estimates would be the cost to public funds of making adequate grants for sound proofing of rooms, imposing a jet ban for a few hours at night and reducing the permitted level of noise at London Airport checkpoints.

I am at present considering various measures for limiting the disturbance to residents around London (Heathrow) Airport. Until these ideas have been worked out I could not say what if any cost to public funds would be involved.

Does not the hon. Member remember that his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister in a speech during the election gave an assurance that these things would be done? Does he mean that he gave the assurance without full consideration of the cost involved?

I am well aware of the speech which the Prime Minister made on 1st October, but as the hon. Member knows only too well from his own recent experience, there are many factors which must be borne in mind.

Is the hon. Member aware that the Prime Minister gave a definite pledge at Isleworth on 1st October that he would ban all night jet flights into London Airport. Is he going to carry out this pledge, or is he going to abandon it?

The whole question of night jets is under consideration and we hope to make a statement about it in a week or so, but I am sure that the House agrees that before we do this it is important that I should take an early opportunity of seeing the consultative committee and others directly concerned.

Is the hon. Member aware that the Wilson Committee gave some estimates of the probable cost of such things and that whereas it is normally desirable that election pledges should be costed before they are made, at least once they have been made it is about time that the Ministry started urgently to consider how they can be implemented?

I have already given an undertaking to the House that these questions are under current consideration. I hope that very soon we can make a statement about it. I would say that I not only remember what the Wilson Committee said but I also remember that the Administration which the hon. Member supported turned down the idea of sound proofing point blank.

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply. I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will take steps to introduce an intermediate qualification for private pilots not in possession of a full instrument rating to allow greater freedom of movement for private and business aircraft equipped with up-to-date navigational and radio facilities.

Yes, Sir. Proposals for such a qualification have just been sent to the interested bodies for their views. I am sending the hon. and gallant Member a copy.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary appreciate that this will give considerable pleasure to a large body of private pilots, and will he do his very best to bring this country into line with other countries, such as France and the United States, in freeing skilled private pilots who want to buy and control their own aircraft?

That is what we have in mind. We want to improve the standard of flying and instrument experience for pilots who fly in bad conditions. We hope to do this soon.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will give a general direction to the British Overseas Airways Corporation to improve the moral standard of its trading advertisements; and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir. The advertising policy of B.O.A.C. is a matter for its own managerial discretion; and, in any event, I have seen no recent B.O.A.C. advertisement, including the one of which my hon. Friend was good enough to send me a copy, to which I would wish to take exception.

Does not my right hon. Friend think that sexy advertising is a very poor substitute for an efficient and competitive publicly-owned service? Would not he agree that if this money were wed to cut fares that would be a more effective fashion of attracting trade to B.O.A.C.?

This particular advertisement was used between 14th September and 27th October of this year and was subsequently given a good deal of publicity by my hon. Friend, although no complaints, other than that from him, were received. I am perfectly sure, particularly bearing in mind the difficulty of getting agreement even between my hon. Friend and myself as to what is or what is not a good advertisement, that it is no part of my duty to try to censor B.O.A.C.'s activities in this respect.

Will the Minister nevertheless keep an eye on the advertising of the Corporation, bearing in mind the fact that earlier this year it spent more than£1 million on saying what a wonderful aircraft the VC 10 was, and then proceeded to halve the order?

I hope, having had the opportunity last weekend of taking a flight in a VC 10, that it, aided by B.O.A.C.'s advertising campaign and other means, will have a very important future.

Can my right hon. Friend give me the name and address of the young lady shown in the advertisement?

I do not think that that, either, comes within the terms of my new duties.

asked the Minister of Aviation what indemnities Her Majesty's Government are required to pay to British and French aircraft manufacturers and sub-contractors and to the French Government under the provisions of the Concord agreement of 29th November, 1962, in the event of Great Britain renouncing the contract.

The Agreement of 29th November, 1962, between the British and French Governments does not provide for payment of indemnities in the event of termination. Payments to contractors are a matter for the Government concerned; in the case of contractors and sub-contractors to my Department, cancellation charges would be determined in accordance with the terms of the relevant contracts.

Has my right hon. Friend taken note of the view of both partners in this Anglo-French project, as cancellation would not only cause heavy financial losses but also incalculable losses in terms of good will? In those circumstances, is he prepared now to say that it is the intention of the Government to proceed with this project in one way or another?

No, Sir. We are very hopeful of coming to an amicable arrangement with the French Government and I am sure that my hon. Friend, who I know is a great believer in Anglo-French collaboration, will do everything he can to help us in this respect.

In the general review of this project which the right hon. Gentleman is embarking upon, has he given full consideration to the cost of its cancellation not only to the aircraft industry but to other industries supplying equipment to this project? Since he must have done that, could he indicate what that figure is?

I am taking into account not only the direct but the indirect effects of my review, but I am not in a position to give detailed information to the House.

My right hon. Friend said that he was quite sure that he would come to an amicable arrangement with the French Government. Will he clarify that a little and tell us what sort of arrangement—to discontinue or continue with a supersonic aircraft?

No, Sir. We are discussing this matter with the French Government and the nature of our discussions must necessarily be confidential.

Is the Minister aware that, while we welcome his assurance that he is hopeful of reaching an amicable agreement with the French Government, we would welcome an assurance that he will not come to any decision which is not amicably arranged with the French Government? Will he also bear in mind that, whatever indemnities may or may not be payable, no idemnity could conceivably make up for the shock to international relations which such a cancellation would cause?

Amicability is necessarily a two-way process, but I remain hopeful.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he has completed his review of the Concord project; and what have been his conclusions.

Not yet, Sir.

Would the Minister agree that, whatever the decision he comes to, it will be in the very best interests of everyone that he should be able to come to a conclusion very speedily, because there is so much uncertainty in the industry as to what decision the Government are about to come to? Will he tell the House when he thinks it likely that he will be able to announce his decision?

I had the impression that I was being accused by some of the hon. Gentleman's friends of having come to too speedy a conclusion on this issue. I have not come to a conclusion, but I hope that it will be possible to do so in the fairly near future.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the cancellation of international agreements may affect other exports we have to the countries concerned? Would he further agree that this is particularly important in the case of South Africa, where our total exports are £200 million a year?

I do not think that we were proposing to export the Concord to South Africa.

asked the Minister of Aviation what consultations he has had about the future of the Concord aircraft with interested representatives of employers and employees; and with what result.

I have had discussions with the chairmen of the companies in charge of the United Kingdom's share of the project and with representatives from both Bristol and Coventry of the Amalgamated Engineering Union, the Draughtsmen's Allied Technicians Association, and the Association of Supervisory Staffs, Executives and Technicians. Their views will be borne fully in mind by the Government in the course of the current review.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for the steps he has taken to familiarise himself with the views of all those who are concerned on the industrial side, may I ask if he will take into consideration the fact that the operators are equally concerned? Has he had any approaches from the British Airline Pilots Association, or has he offered to meet that association? If there has been no such offer, will he consider meeting it or its appropriate representatives?

I should be happy to meet the officials of B.A.L.P.A. on this or other issues when the occasion arises.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is a matter of great importance to Bristol, both for management and employees in the industry? A great deal of time has been spent on design study, not only of the engine but also of the whole project of Concord. Will he kindly not lightly dismiss the great deal of good work which has been put into it?

Yes, indeed, I am aware of the importance of this project to Bristol. That is why I have taken an early opportunity to have discussions both with the management and trade union sides of those employed in the Bristol factories concerned.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he has now been informed of the reaction of the French Government, following his expression of the views of Her Majesty's Government on the Concord project at a meeting with M. Jacquet and other Ministers in Paris; and whether he will make a statement before taking any further action.

I would refer the right hon. and learned Member to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Hendon, North (Sir Ian Orr-Ewing) on 16th November. I am not yet in a position to make a statement.

The House will quite understand that the reply of the French Government requires serious consideration, but would it not have been better if that serious consideration had been devoted to the matter before the Minister's disastrous visit to Paris?

I think that this problem requires serious consideration at all stages. I am sorry that the right hon. and learned Gentleman takes quite such a depressing view of my visit to Paris as he does.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that he will not abandon or delay the Concord project without the agreement of the French Government?

I have nothing to add to what I have already said. We are in close exchange with the French Government and I am very hopeful of an amicable outcome.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will state the average fares per passenger mile charged on the Atlantic and European routes, respectively.

Average fares can be misleading because there are so many different types of fare and lengths of journey. But typical examples of the lowest round trip excursion fares from London are 3·7d. per mile to New York or Montreal, 4·4d. to Lima and 4·5d. to Trinidad, compared with 4·9d. to Rome, 5·7d. to Geneva and 6·9d. to Paris.

In view of the fact that there is better utilisation on the European than on the trans-Atlantic routes, is there not implicit in these differentials the idea that European airways are ganging up to charge the passenger more for travel in Europe than is strictly necessary?

I think that fares per mile tend to be lower on the longer haul routes than on the short ones, but certainly I will bear in mind what the hon. Member said. I am sure that he recognises that fares are a matter not for me or B.E.A. but for international agreement.

asked the Minister of Aviation why it is proposed to reduce the flight angle at Ringway; and what effect this will have on the noise level in houses in the vicinity of the flight path.

My right hon. Friend is considering a request by the airlines operating heavy jet aircraft at Ringway to lower the glidepath angle from 3 to 2½degrees, which is the angle recommended by the International Civil Aviation Organisation. We shall take full account of the noise effects before a decision is reached.

But will the Parliamentary Secretary remember that although my constituents do not make a lot of trouble in this connection they are subject to the same nuisance value from noise as are other airport dwellers who make a lot more noise?

We shall certainly bear all that in mind.

asked the Minister of Aviation (1) having regard to the fact that passengers are expected to climb flights of stairs and thereafter pass down a ramp before boarding aircraft at the civil airport of Aldergrove in County Antrim, what steps he is taking to install a one-way escalator similar to those in use at London Airport;

Plans for an extension of the terminal building, in order to relieve congestion and to permit a general improvement in facilities, are well advanced and will be completed shortly. The proposal to install an escalator is one of the questions being considered.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that there was quite appalling congestion at the airport last summer and that, owing to the increase in passengers, there is likely to be further congestion? Will he expedite these plans as rapidly as possible, and can he give some indication when the work is likely to start?

The various plans are now being considered. I have had reports sent to me about the position. I hope to see the airport myself at some stage. I can assure the House that these plans are being considered now.

When my right hon. Friend is considering these airport arrangements, will he consider the possibility of using the caterpillar landing, which makes it possible for people to board an aircraft without having to go out into the wet?

Piers are being constructed at Heathrow which will help this to be achieved, and we hope that this can be extended elsewhere as well.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will seek to amend the Civil Aviation (Licensing) Act, 1960, so as to require the Air Transport Licensing Board to act in accordance with policy directives issued by him.

I shall certainly consider, when I have had an opportunity to make my own assessments, whether this or any other changes in the licensing system are called for.

Does not the Minister appreciate that the Air Transport Licensing Board has criticised the present situation for many years as preventing operators from forming a reasoned judgment of the licences they are likely to receive; and that if he were to accept this advice it would enable operators to plan their investment on a long-term basis?

I shall bear what the hon. Gentleman says in mind although, of course, it would involve legislation.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will now publish the Corbett Report on the British Overseas Airways Corporation.

Having read the Corbett Report for myself, I can assure the House that there is little of substance in it with which it is not already familiar from the thorough investigation of the Select Committee on Nationalised Industries. It is nevertheless a fact that when Mr. Corbett was asked to undertake this inquiry he was told that it would

"… be regarded as private and confidential".

Does the Minister appreciate that many of the criticisms in the Corbett Report are shown by the Select Committee to be completely unfounded? Will he now congratulate Sir Matthew Slattery on the excellent results achieved under his chairmanship and, in particular, on the wonderful profit and loss account that has just been produced?

I think that Sir Matthew Slattery will already have found, in many of the comments published on recent results, a substantial note of congratulation, which I certainly share.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we welcome what we regard as his very well justified decision, as there are obviously certain things in this Report that would be commercially valuable to competitors of B.O.A.C.? Is he aware that one of the purposes in setting up this inquiry was, in his own words, to end "recriminations and controversies" that had previously taken place, and that this is surely the main achievement of this Report?

Yes, but the hon. Gentleman will note that I did not underline the judgment that it was right to set up this secret inquiry in the first place. I do not think, whatever the intention was, that, during the time it took place, the existence of the inquiry helped to do away with the atmosphere of recrimination.

asked the Minister of Aviation what financial assistance he will give to Dundee Corporation to provide a suitable airport for Dundee.

We have already offered Dundee Corporation about £4,000 towards the cost of technical equipment at Riverside. The next stage, which is not easy, is to find an airline operator who is ready to provide Dundee with a regular service. I would then consider further assistance to the Corporation.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Dundee Corporation has already spent a great deal of its own money in trying to secure a regular air service, that the need for this has been admitted in the Government's Central Scotland development plan? Is he aware that it has been described as being absolutely necessary by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Bexley (Mr. Heath), and that the only person in the last Government who would not agree to it was his predecessor? Will my right hon. Friend therefore do a little more to try to rectify this sore thumb of the lack of Scottish aviation, as it is described by the Scottish Aviation Advisory Committee, in order to try to help this development district to get the air service necessary for its full development?

I will certainly do all I can, and shall be very happy to see Dundee provided with regular air services, but my hon. Friend, and the House, will be aware that I have no power to direct an operator to provide such a service.

asked the Minister of Aviation what proposals he has for reducing aircraft noise near airports.

The arrangements for restricting noise which are now in force will be continued, and I am considering what further steps are practicable. I am proposing to meet the municipal authorities around Heathrow Airport and the Heathrow Consultative Committee within the next few weeks.

When considering the problem of aircraft noise, which is mentioned in the Prime Minister's pledges, will the Parliamentary Secretary also consider aircraft noise near other airports and do what he can to alleviate the noise, which causes a great many people considerable hardship?

Yes, we have that in mind. As the House knows, the responsibility for dealing with aircraft noise at Southend, for instance, is primarily a responsibility for the Southend Corporation, but at the Ministry we wish to do all we can to restrict this noise.

Would the hon. Gentleman indicate how much noise is made when promises are broken?

It is the intention of my right hon. Friend and myself to reach the right decision in this matter. It will take us a few weeks to consider all the factors involved, and then we will bring a proposal before the House.

asked the Minister of Aviation what progress is being made with the TSR2 programme; and if he will make a statement.

The TSR2 flew for the first time on 27th September. This flight was satisfactory. The aircraft was then laid up for an engine change and for other normal work. I understand that it should fly again shortly. Future expenditure on this costly and complex, but very important, project is necessarily a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence as well as myself.

Can the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that it is still the intention of Her Majesty's Government to bring this equipment into service with Bomber Command as speedily as possible?

I can assure the House that it is the intention of the Government to take into account the progress which has been made and the expenditure which has taken place on this project, together with all other considerations.

If there is any difficulty about flying the TSR2 for the purpose for which the last Government intended, will the Minister try to apply it for the purpose for which it was originally designed?

We shall certainly beat that in mind.

Is the Minister aware that his last answer but one will cause considerable concern, because it suggests that not only is this another project which is, in the current jargon, "under review" but that he is at least disposed towards cancellation of it, which is a serious matter from the national point of view?

It does not suggest anything more than it says, which is that the Secretary of State for Defence and my other colleagues are fully entitled to review the position which was left to them.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will make a statement about the Government's policy towards British participation in the European Launcher Development Organisation programme.

Yes, sir. We are prepared to continue to play our part in the initial programme of the European Launcher Development Organisa- tion. Future arrangements will be considered at a conference of member states in January next.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that British participation in space development projects of this kind is good, not just for international relations, but more especially for the technological benefits which will follow to this country's advantage?

Yes, I would. That is why I gave the original Answer, but we have the position that costs have risen and, as I told the House a week or so ago, the French and Italian Governments have asked that this should be looked at.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he realises the immense amount of work which has gone into trying to get technology going on a European basis, and that all these projects—the Concord, E.L.D.O. and a whole range of defence projects—hang together, and the moment that the good faith of any one Government can be called into question, to some extent all these projects are in peril?

Yes, of course, I do, but I think I am entitled to answer a question about a project which the French and Italian Governments have asked should be reviewed without the right hon. Member getting very excited about good faith.

I hope that neither the right hon. Gentleman nor anyone else will get excited, but does he realise that the moment one Government starts asking for reviews of contracts honourably entered into, the danger of all other Governments doing the same is very high indeed and a great programme of technological advance in Europe is put at stake?

Yes, of course. I recognise the principle the right hon. Member is making, but he must not try to put it on a foundation which will not bear it. This review of E.L.D.O. was asked for long before we asked for a review of Concord.

Can my right hon. Friend recall how often the late Government not only reviewed projects but cancelled them after considerable expenditure? Will he clarify what is the purpose in the construction of aircraft? Is it merely to provide work or is it to provide decent military defence in a practical form?

My right hon. Friend's questions are always so well phrased that they provide the answers as well as asking the questions.

asked the Minister of Aviation if, in view of its importance to Scotland, he will increase the facilities available to foreign airlines in the use of Prestwick Airport; and if he will reconsider the recent cuts made in the number of weekly flights allowed to Scandinavian Airlines System.

The Governments of Denmark, Norway and Sweden were advised in April, 1964, that Her Majesty's Government would be willing to review the frequency of S.A.S.'s services through Prestwick in the winter of 1965–66 should the three Governments then consider a higher frequency justified. I see no need to increase generally facilities to foreign airlines at Prestwick since the present services are adequate for the traffic offering, and I must have due regard in these matters to the interests of B.O.A.C., which has this year considerably augmented its Prestwick services. But I am prepared to allow S.A.S. four services a week through Prestwick next summer, as opposed to the three services a week that it would have been permitted under the previous arrangements.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this small increase on the S.A.S. flights, although small, will be very welcome to many people in Scotland? Will he also agree that, while we all wish to give adequate protection to our own airlines, it is not possible in the foreseeable future fully to utilise an airport of the size of Prestwick without foreign airlines? Will he, therefore, not agree that other foreign airlines must be given the impression that we are not going to cut the numbers of their flights freely in the future, as was done with S.A.S.? Will he further agree that S.A.S. has had a certain amount of bad luck in that it did a lot of good work in promoting sales on this line for which it is now suffering?

I recognise certainly that S.A.S. is a very good airline which has done a good job. I hope that the small concession will be welcome to it. Of course we want to develop Prestwick, but the hon. Member and the House will recognise that the objection is not to a service between Scandinavia and Prestwick or Prestwick and Scandinavia—the difficulty is with a service which goes on to North America and takes traffic which otherwise would be taken by B.O.A.C.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that we do not expect him in a few weeks to remedy all the blunders which his predecessors made, and that this was one? Will he, however, bear in mind that S.A.S. brings travellers to Scotland, that they stay for a week or two before they go on to Scandinavia, and that helps the tourist trade of Scotland? In view of the difficult and complex problems at Prestwick, will my right hon. Friend pay an early visit to the airport so that we may give him information at first hand about this matter?

I shall certainly consider an early visit to Prestwick.

Will the right hon. Gentleman do something to help the growth of Prestwick, to which he referred, and this very important area of Scotland, by paying more attention to the desires of passengers rather than to the finances of B.O.A.C.—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—by allowing passengers to use the many services which fly between London and Prestwick and Prestwick and London instead of forcing them either to go by train or via Renfrew? This is a most important matter to this expanding area, and I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will do something about it.

As I have just announced a 33⅓ per cent. improvement over what my predecessor was prepared to offer to S.A.S., I think that the hon. Member might like to argue it out with his own Front Bench.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are services in existence being flown by foreign firms which British people would like to use, but they are prevented from doing so? If he wishes to help this airport and, indeed, this area of Scotland, I ask him to allow these passengers to use the services which at present exist but which they are not allowed to use at the moment.

I will bear this point in mind. I will consider it. However, the hon. Gentleman must not think that I can help Prestwick only by having no regard to the interests of B.O.A.C.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that when the Air Transport Licensing Board grants licences to independent operators to operate between Glasgow and London it always lays down that the operators must use Renfrew Airport? Is it not possible for my right hon. Friend to suggest to the Board that some of these licences might specify Prestwick, thus increasing its trade?

I will look into the point made by my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will take steps to ensure that a continuous flow of development and aircraft construction orders are placed with Short Brothers and Harland, in order to maintain employment in its factories.

In questions relating to the allocation of aircraft work, I shall bear in mind the special importance of Short Brothers and Harland to the economy of Northern Ireland.

In view of the vital contribution made by Short Brothers and Harland to employment in Northern Ireland and also the firm's encouragement of much advanced research and development work and technical education in Northern Ireland, would the right hon. Gentleman consider repeating the assurance given by his predecessor that employment will be maintained in this factory at its existing level until 1970?

I hope that we shall be able to maintain a very high level of employment here, because as I said in my original Answer, I recognise its special importance to the Belfast and surrounding area. However, I should like to study the matter in the context of the aircraft industry as a whole.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether his review of the HS681 order will affect the share of work on this aircraft promised to Short Brothers and Harland.

I am unable to anticipate the results of the review of the content of the defence programme in which the HS681 will be included.

Is the Minister aware of the importance of the share of this work which has been promised to Short Brothers and Harland, particularly in view of the rundown of the work on the Belfast freighters which is taking place at the moment? Will he bear this in mind in considering this point? If work cannot be maintained, will he consider allocating other similar work to Short Brothers employing at least the same number?

Yes. I am certainly aware of this, and I will bear it in mind. I would certainly not wish, if it could be avoided, to see the labour force run down.

Will the right hon. Gentleman also bear in mind that there are other independent aviation firms equally well qualified as Short Brothers and equally ready to accept development and construction work for the Government?

Yes. In the short time in which I have been in my present office, the hon. Gentleman has not left me in any doubt about the existence of at least one of these firms.

asked the Minister of Aviation what contracts have been given for the P1154 radar; and if he will make a statement.

Only a contract for a project study completed early this year. A decision on further contracts will be taken after the current review of all major defence projects.

To which firm has this project development contract been given? Can the Minister assure the House that the P1154 programme will go ahead?

No, Sir. The contract will be let on a normal competitive basis so that the firm best able to do the work does it. The position about the P1154 is the same as the position in relation to various other projects already mentioned this afternoon.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he has confirmed British United Airways' replacing of British Overseas Airways Corporation on the eastern South American route.

British Overseas Airways Corporation had already withdrawn from the route before I took office and under our various bilateral agreements British United Airways had been designated to exercise traffic rights in its place. British Overseas Airways Corporation, having made the necessary changes, does not wish to resume the service, which it could not have done in any event without a delay involving a further period when no British operator would have been on the route. I therefore decided that it would not be desirable to reverse what had already been done. British United Airways is now operating the service under a temporary exemption from licensing which had already been granted and I do not propose to upset this arrangement pending a decision by the Air Transport Licensing Board on the unopposed application now before it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the House will be very glad to hear that he has repudiated his right hon. Friend the Member for Newton (Mr. Frederick Lee), who made some foolish remarks during the election campaign? Is he also aware that some of us on this side of the House are anxious that he should give B.U.A. all the assistance it needs regarding traffic rights with Brazil? Will the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that he will give all the help that he possibly can?

I do not think that there is any question of repudiating my right hon. Friend's remarks. I was confronted with a situation in which B.O.A.C. had withdrawn from 1st September, and I had to deal with that situation as it pre- sented itself. In these circumstances, it is only in the interests of everybody that B.U.A. should be given the fullest assistance in negotiating traffic rights with the Governments concerned.

Does B.U.A. pay its pilots the same salaries as B.O.A.C.?

Under Section 15 of the Act there is a statutory obligation on the company to do this, and I think that in the case of these services the old differential between pilot salaries would not operate.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that both his right hon. Friend the Minister of Power and his hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Mr. Cronin), purporting to speak officially on behalf of the Labour Party, during the election campaign most violently attacked the decision of his predecessor in respect of B.U.A. and the South American route? Is not the right hon. Gentleman in effect now saying that this was the right decision to have made and that he intends to continue it?

No, Sir. I was confronted with a particular position. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman and the House will recognise that there was nothing in my Answer indicating that I would have got into this position had I had my present responsibilities earlier. But I was confronted with this position and I dealt with it in what I thought in all the circumstances was the best way.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what requests he has had to consider the problem of quotas on foreign fish landings; and what has been his reply.

The Grimsby Fish Merchants Association has asked for a meeting with me to discuss the restrictions imposed by certain sections of the industry on the landing of Faroese fish. The meeting will be held tomorrow.

May I congratulate the hon. Gentleman upon his appointment, particularly on his special responsibility for the fishing industry? When the meeting takes place will he bear in mind that the problem of Faroese landings is due solely to the unilateral action of the Faroese Government and that the problem can be solved only by negotiation? Will he do his best to persuade the Faroese Government to negotiate?

May I thank the hon. Gentleman for what he said about myself? He has correctly described the cause of the position in which the industry now finds itself. That will have to be taken into consideration.

Does the Minister realise that foreign landings have inflicted great loss upon the fishing industry of north-east Scotland, particularly Aberdeen? Therefore the regulation of quotas is urgently necessary. Will he give his attention to that with a view to tackling the problem of the fishing industry in north-east Scotland?

We shall be discussing this problem tomorrow. I should prefer to wait until I have had this meeting with the merchants before making any statement.

What is the exact position about these landings at the moment in the Port of Aberdeen?

My information is that certain Faroese vessels have been refused landing rights. I gather this from the Press. This is one of the questions which will have to be studied, because apparently their landings would exceed the quota laid down by the British Trawlers Federation.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he is aware of the increase in malicious damage on farms, especially near big cities, involving damage to farm buildings and other fixed equipment, and cruelty to livestock; and if he will take steps to prevent this.

My Depart- ment has received no recent representations on this subject, and does not keep any figures of such damage. I am confident that the police do all they can to prevent these offences, and I would advise farmers generally to keep in close touch with the police about measures which would be useful to protect their property.

Is there not increasing anxiety in the farming community on this subject? Would the hon. Gentleman consult with his right hon. Friend the Home Secretary about it?

I would be loath to think that there is tremendous anxiety on the subject. I farm in the midst of what is probably the biggest built-up area, only 19 miles from where we are sitting, and I have had no damage at all in the past 12 years. However, I know that there are complaints and I will certainly take this matter up with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will publish as a White Paper the recommendations recently made to him by the Chairman of the White Fish Authority.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, what action he intends to take on the proposals of the White Fish Authority put to him.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, what proposals have been placed before him by the White Fish Authority; and what action he is contemplating upon these.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, what progress has been made with the proposed statutory minimum prices scheme for white fish and a licensing system.

My right hon. Friend has received no recommendations from the Chairman of the White Fish Authority. However, he expects to receive shortly a progress report on the discussions which the Chairman has been having with the industry about minimum prices, and he will consider the question of publication then.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the White Fish Authority's Report distinctly says that proposals were made to his predecessor which could not be discussed because they were under consideration? Would it be possible now to disclose what the proposals were if there is going to be no answer to them; so that we shall know whether they ought to be answered or not?

The proposals were made to the hon. Lady's right hon. Friend some considerable time ago. We do not think it would be particularly helpful to publish them now. As I have said in reply to the original Question. we are giving effect to two of the proposals that were contained therein.

Is my hon. Friend fully aware that the larger companies in Hull are investing heavily in deep-water freezer vessels? Can he give an assurance that the White Fish Authority will step up research so that the industry may get the technical support which perhaps has been lacking in the past?

Yes, we are aware of the considerable sums of money which are being expended in connection with new trawlers. In the field of research we are discussing with the White Fish Authority the best way in which to spend the money available for the betterment of the fleet.

On the question of statutory minimum prices, is the hon. Gentleman aware that in many ports some such system has already been in operation, though on a voluntary basis? Can he now take steps to put teeth into the operation of such schemes in order to deal with individuals who do not subscribe to the regulations which have been voluntarily agreed upon?

This scheme is being considered at present by the White Fish Authority. As soon as the Authority presents its report to us we will deal with the matter.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I supported the request for the publication of these recommendations by the Chairman of the White Fish Authority when we debated the matter? Why cannot the Minister publish them now?

Of course, I am aware of that, but I do not think the House would expect me to go back to every letter received by the previous Minister and then authorise publication.

Is not my hon. Friend being a little pedantic when he says that no recommendation has been received from the White Fish Authority? Is not he aware that the White Fish Authority has given very close attention to the current needs of the fishing industry, and will he look at this with a view to shaping his course accordingly?

My hon. and learned Friend perhaps did not hear what I said. I said that we were giving effect to two of the recommendations made by the White Fish Authority. As soon as we receive its further proposals we shall consider them.

When does the Minister expect to be able to reach a decision on the question of minimum prices?

As I say, I have not yet had any further proposals from the White Fish Authority. When we get them from the Authority we shall come to a decision as soon as possible.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how he proposes to give effect to the agreement on new marketing arrangements for home-grown cereals announced on 22nd September, 1964.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will make a statement on Her Majesty's Government's plans for cereal marketing.

The Government welcome this agreement and are urgently considering legislation to give effect to it.

Will the Minister accept my congratulations on his appointment? Can he say whether the Bill will set out to preserve the aims and the balance of this agreement which resulted from 18 months of somewhat delicate negotiations; and, in particular, can he give an assurance that the Government are not seeking to set up a commodity commission with full trading powers?

I think the hon. Member knows full well what the agreement was, and I have given my answer.

It is surprising to hear from the right hon. Gentleman that he is not going to set up a commodity commission. May we take it that no commodity commission on cereals will be set up?

The hon. Member is aware of what I said in reply to the main Question. He knows my views.

Are we to understand from the right hon. Gentleman that he intends to legislate to implement this agreement arrived at some time ago with all the interests concerned in the marketing of the home cereal crop, that this will be his only intention, and that he does not intend to superimpose on that agreement any other form of body?

May I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his new appointment? I said in reply to one of his hon. Friends that the Government welcome the agreement and are urgently considering legislation. What more does the right hon. Gentleman expect?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will now announce his decision on the application of the Severn River Board, made in May, for grant-aid for the Board's £40,000 scheme for further bank revetment.

My right hon. Friend hopes to be able to do so before the end of the year.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this matter has been standing over for a long time and that the riparian occupiers and the Severn River Board are anxious to have continuity so that they can get on with the work?

I agree that the proposals first came before the Department in May, but we shall do our best to expedite the answer.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what plans he has for introducing a system of retirement grants for farmers on a voluntary basis.

This is a matter which I shall be considering. But it will need much study and I shall want to get the views and advice of the agricultural industry on it.

Will the Minister take into account the fact that many of these small farms are the only means by which young farmers can enter the industry?

Of course, and that is why I should like to consult all sections of the industry before I do anything.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is the estimated cost to the agricultural industry of the proposed duty on hydrocarbon oils.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is the estimated cost to the horticultural industry of the proposed duty on hydrocarbon oils.

The estimated total cost to agriculture and horticulture combined is about £2½ million in a full year; £¼ million of this is attributed to horticulture.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is part of a considerable extra rise in costs which farmers will have to bear next year, quite apart from the import surcharge, wages and so on? Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that he intends to take all these extra costs fully into account when deciding upon the Review and satisfying the proper requirements of farmers' incomes?

Of course, this will be taken into consideration when we deal with the Review. I am rather surprised that the right hon. Gentleman suggested that we would not be aware of these factors. He must remember that he was a Minister in an Administration which in 1961 put £3½ million on the industry in respect of duty on oil, petrol, etc.

Will the right hon. Gentleman also remember that in 1961 the Government rescinded the duty in favour of horticulture which cannot be taken into account in the Annual Price Review? Will he give an undertaking that at least in the case of horticulture the Government will do the same this time?

We shall, of course, bear this in mind and I shall be much more sympathetic to the needs of agriculture and horticulture, as the hon. Member knows fill well.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that what we are asking him is what he proposes to do for horticulture and whether this duty will not mean an increased demand for horticultural produce to be imported?

I will bear that in mind, of course, and I have said so.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this is part of the Revenue proposals to finance old-age pensioners? Could he tell us how many farmers will have old-age pensions?