asked the Minister of Labour what has been the loss of skilled manpower from Scotland in the years 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, and 1963, respectively.

I regret that information about the loss of skilled manpower is not available. It is estimated, however, that the net loss of employees of all kinds was 9,000, 24,000, 11,000, 18,000, and 13,000 in the years 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962 and 1963, respectively.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that these figures are shocking to us in Scotland, because at present there is a shortage of skilled labour in Scotland? Are we right in assuming that the major loss has been in skilled labour? Will my right hon. Friend consult the responsible Cabinet Minister to see if something can be done to bring new scientific-based industries to Scotland so that we can keep our skilled labour at home?

It is very difficult to say what percentage of skilled labour is involved in the total figure, but we are very much aware of the shortage of skilled labour in certain parts of Scotland. I believe that my hon. Friend's next Question will have something to do with that.

Will not the situation be made more difficult by the 7 per cent. Bank Rate, which must impede regional development?

I do not think that a supplementary question about the 7 per cent. Bank Rate relates to the Question I am asked on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps he is taking to provide training facilities in Scotland to meet the needs of new and expanding industries.

I am at present reviewing the adequacy of training facilities throughout the country including Scotland. Under the present programme for the expansion of the Government training centres in Scotland four new centres have been provided within the last eighteen months, making five in all, and two more will be coming into use next year.

I thank my right hon. Friend for the information he has given me. Will he inquire what measures are being taken to provide training for men between 45 and 50, because many men in this age group are being made redundant in the Scottish coal industry? In many cases these are the sort of men who need training for new skills.

We hope that the centres will be able to train 1,700 adults and 144 first-year apprentices annually.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that the figures he gave show that a considerable proportion of the increased number of places being made available in Government training centres is devoted to Scotland?

Yes, that is true.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will seek the early provision of additional forms of protective employment for persons disabled by chronic disease but capable of and needing whole-time or part-time employment.

Provision is made for severely disabled persons in the employment field who are not able to work in ordinary industry, in Remploy factories and in sheltered workshops run by local authorities and voluntary bodies. The possibility of extending this provision is kept under regular review. The provision of occupation for those outside the employment field is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health.

Is not my hon. Friend aware that that reply does not deal with the cases I have in mind? Though the Oldham Corporation has taken magnificent advantage of the facilities for providing employment for some unemployables, in the case of chronic disease I have been trying for years to get employment for two men suffering from haemophilia? I have cases of epilepsy petit mal, byssinosis, Parkinson's disease and disseminated sclerosis, muscular distrophy, all men suffering terribly, all men who would benefit from employment, and all men who need this sort of provision which a Labour Government really should provide.

I am sure everybody accepts the point, but the distinction has to be made. Remploy exists for people who are capable of productive effort, and we hope that Remploy will be able to increase the number of severely disabled persons whom it employs. As for the other people, this is very much a question for local authorities and voluntary bodies. The Government are looking at both sides of this problem.

During the regular reviews, will the Joint Parliamentary Secretary also bear in mind blind persons? Does he realise that after blind persons have been retrained for specific jobs they are often only able to obtain employment for as little as one or two days a week? This is most discouraging for them, and will the hon. Gentleman do everything in his power to ensure that employment is built up for blind persons?

This will be taken into account.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that men who fall out of employment over the age of 50 years often have serious difficulty in obtaining comparably paid posts; and if he will establish a Departmental inquiry into this problem.

There is a problem here. It is being tackled in a number of ways and I do not think a Departmental inquiry would help at the moment.

Is the Minister aware that the parrot cry for "young men and more and more young men" is becoming increasingly apparent in the professions and in industry? Is he further aware that because of this growing trend, many middle-aged men with good qualifications both in the professions and in industry, including clerical work, find it increasingly difficult to get work if they are thrown out of employment, and they feel that society has turned its back on them? Does he not feel that his Department ought to give a lead in these matters in what is a serious human problem?

The Ministry of Labour is trying to give a lead in this matter. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that this is one of the cruellest problems in society at the present time. But this is rather a question of attitudes in industry than of inter-departmental inquiries. As the hon. Gentleman is aware, we are trying through the employment exchange service to encourage employers to get away from this rigid attitude. In addition, I propose that the National Joint Advisory Council shall undertake early studies of any of the facts of which we are not already aware—although we are aware of most of them—to see if we can deal with this problem in a far more humane way.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that since the present Government insist on reviewing practically every defence contract as well as practically every aircraft project, he may have many more of these people on his hands? Will he, therefore, redouble his efforts to find a way of helping them?

I do not know what the hon. Gentleman means by "redoubling" my efforts. The efforts are very concrete and valid.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the best methods of tackling this problem is by creating more retraining facilities? With regard to the training centres that have been set up, has he made certain that they are geared to the existing employment agencies which are set up in the various areas, in order to avoid travelling and breaking up homes when men secure new employment?

Many of the men referred to in this question are not the sort of persons who would take to retraining. I think they have already built one career. What they are looking for—and this creates one of the greatest difficulties—is jobs with comparable rates of pay. It is very difficult to place them in industry if younger men are already in the channel of promotion. However, I can assure the House that I am deeply aware of the agony that this problem causes many people.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will draw to the attention of the Lichfield and Tamworth Local Employment Committee the need to investigate the shortage of work paid at rates competitive with Birmingham in the area, resulting in the continued commuting of workers to Birmingham; and if he will request the committee in question to make this matter the subject of a special report.

The desirability of doing this is very much a matter for the Committee itself. I gave an undertaking last week that the suggestion would be brought to the Committee's notice.

I am obliged to my hon. Friend. Is he aware that the legacy of high unemployment in other parts of the country left by the previous Government has resulted in lack of industry coming into this overspill area and that there is some evidence of personal stress due to excessive travelling time and pecuniary loss?

As my hon. Friend will appreciate, the general question of the distribution of industry is one for my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade. As to the effects of the last Administration, it would take too long to deal with all of them.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will arrange for separate committees to sit in respect of the Tamworth and Lichfield Local Employment Committee in view of the changed working population situation since the original single committee was instituted.

No, Sir; but my right hon. Friend will reconsider the balance of representation between the two areas.

Is my hon. Friend aware that since the original committee was formed the industrial development in each of these towns has become quite important and there seems to be some difference of interest between the towns which might justify separate committees?

Although employment has been growing faster in Lichfield than in Tamworth, the two towns are very closely linked and they are not big enough to justify separate committees.

asked the Minister of Labour if, in view of the importance of regional planning and the need for full information on which to base it, he will take steps to publish average weekly earnings of male manual workers in the city of Norwich and the county of Norfolk for a suitable date in 1964.

Reliable figures of average earnings are not available for areas smaller than "regions", and I am afraid, therefore, I cannot publish the information requested by my hon. Friend.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the region to which he refers in our case stretches from Poole to Cromer, a distance of more than 200 miles, that it includes a large proportion of the industrial fringes of London and that all the average figure given is, therefore, totally misleading so far as Norfolk is concerned? Would not the hon. Gentleman agree with me that a more local figure, if not so accurate, is preferable to statistics so general as to be virtually useless?

I quite appreciate that the eastern and southern region covers a very large area indeed. We shall certainly bear this in mind in any review that is undertaken, but I would remind the hon. Gentleman that these statistics are based on samples and on voluntary information given on a confidential basis. They must not be given for so small an area that an individual firm can be identified.

asked the Minister of Labour what increase there has been in average earnings in the South-West in the last year, to the nearest convenient date; and how it compares with increases in other areas.

The increase in average weekly earnings of adult male manual workers in the south-west region was 31s. 9d.—that is from 302s. 9d. in April, 1963 to 334s. 6d. in April, 1964. As the second part of the reply is a table of figures I will, with permission, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a lot of leeway to be made up? Will he speak to his right

asked the Minister of Labour if, in view of the amalgamations and mergers taking place among industrial companies, he will introduce legislation to encourage the 180 unions affiliated to the Trades Union Congress to amalgamate so as to avoid the management of some factories having to negotiate with a dozen or more unions.

There was such legislation in the last Parliament. The Trade Union (Amalgamations, etc.) Act, 1964, made it much easier for unions to amalgamate or transfer their engagements.

Would the Minister not agree that, in view of the fact that in some modern European countries there are only about a dozen unions and

I read the reply and I thought it was quite a good one. I think the hon. Gentleman will be interested to see the figures, because his Question is about increases. When the hon. Gentleman sees those figures he will observe that, from the point of view of absolute figures and in percentage terms, the South-West is next to the top of the 10 regions.

I agree with the desirability of the hon. Member's objective, but when he asks for legislation to encourage amalgamation I find it difficult to envisage such legislation. We shall move towards amalgamation with as much speed as is possible.

While welcoming the Minister's reference to the Trade Union (Amalgamations etc.) Act which was brought forward by a Member of this party in the last Parliament, may I ask if he will do all he can? I will not ask him to redouble his efforts because he seemed rather touchy about that earlier on; I suppose that is because of the bed of nails he lives on. May I ask him to do all he can? I am sure he realises the need to get more and more amalgamation. We introduced the Act to which he referred to assist the unions and I hope that they will respond accordingly.

I was not touchy about the suggestion that I should redouble my efforts. I think it is a bit of a sauce, however, after being Minister for six weeks, to be told to redouble my efforts when hon. Members opposite were in office for years. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that, in spite of the trouble that I usually get into on the question of trade union reform, I shall continue to do all I can.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that this matter is of particular importance not only in the motor industry, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Mr. Gresham Cooke) has referred, but also to the shipbuilding industry where there are sometimes as many as two dozen unions in the same yard? In view of the importance of both these industries to the continuing prosperity of Merseyside, will the right hon. Gentleman use his best efforts in both these industries to hasten as much progress as can be achieved?

I can only repeat that I will do all I can to influence the course of events. All the problems in industry and in negotiations do not arise from the multiplicity of trade unions. There is some multiplicity on the side of the employers as well.

asked the Minister of Labour when he intends to introduce legislation providing for a redundancy pay scheme.

Consultations with industry are proceeding urgently and legislation will be introduced as soon as possible.

Would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that he inherited a great deal of work on this subject? Can he tell the House whether he intends to jettison that work, or will he bring forward some of the proposals which were near to fruition? In particular, does the right hon. Gentleman intend to start first on a severance pay scheme or to start on a wage-related benefits scheme?

The Question asks the Minister of Labour

"when he intends to introduce legislation providing for a redundancy pay scheme".

asked the Minister of Labour if he will initiate new studies into the effects and consequences of automation.

The future programme of work of the Manpower Research Unit will pay full regard to the effects of automation on manpower and I will also arrange to keep under review the need for further work on the effects on human relations in industry.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that both management and unions require a much better appreciation of the consequences of both the benefits and the difficulties of automation, particularly as this revolution is proceeding at a very fast pace and we want it to come as a harmonious one? Should not the survey, apart from manpower, be on a much broader basis so that we can coordinate the various reports which are coming through and publish them from time to time?

Yes, indeed. First, the unit is exploring the possibilities of manpower forecasts on the basis of the estimated trends in output and productivity, including the effects of automation. Secondly, the unit is planning to follow up its current studies of changes in the occupational structure of the metal industries and the effect of computers on office employment with new studies of the changing structure of particular industris, and on the introduction of particular new techniques. We are doing a great deal of work and, if the right hon. Member for Grantham (Mr. Godber) wants praise for it, I am glad to inherit the work which he has done.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will state the minimum weekly wage for a labourer at Her Majesty's Naval Base, Portland, and the minimum weekly wage for a London worker employed in a civilian dockyard, respectively.

The minimum weekly wage for a labourer at Her Majesty's Naval Base, Portland is £10 8s. for a week of 42 hours. The minimum weekly wage for a London worker employed in a civilian shipyard is £9 11 s. for a week of 41 hours, but, in addition a compensatory payment of 15s. a week is made to workers on plain time rates who have had no payments by results, incentive payments or bonuses.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary agree that when the various complications are taken into account there is a very large discrepancy between the amounts actually earned in London and those earned in Dorset and that this ought to be remedied? Does not he agree that this particular case can only be remedied by the Government who directly employ these men? May we hope that they will do something about it?

On the latter part of the supplementary question, it will be a matter for the employer on the one hand and the trade unions who represent the men on the other. The difference in the minimum weekly wage between the two places which the hon. Member mentioned is only about 1½ per cent.

But the earnings?

asked the Minister of Labour what form the inquiry into trades unions and their place in law and national affairs will take.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement on his discussions with both sides of industry about an inquiry into the law affecting trade unions and employers' organisations and their rôle in modern conditions.

I am glad to say that following the Government's decision to introduce legislation this Session to deal with the unsatisfactory situation created by the judgment in Rookes v. Barnard there can now be an inquiry into trade unions and employers' associations in a satisfactory atmosphere and with the full co-operation of the Trades Union Congress. I think we need an inquiry into the rôle of both trade unions and employers' associations in our modern society. I am at present consulting the Trades Union Congress and the British Employers' Confederation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many people will welcome that news? Can he give us any more idea of the form of the inquiry he has in mind and of the kind of evidence it will take?

I can only say at this point that I am in consultation with the T.U.C. and the British Employers' Confederation, but, as the hon. Member knows, I would wish for a very high level and searching inquiry.

While welcoming the extremely important announcement which the right hon. Gentleman has made, may I ask whether he can give any indication of how soon he will be able to give us the terms of reference of this body as well as information about the type of body and how soon it will start sitting? The right hon. Gentleman in his reply referred also to legislation on the Rookes v. Barnard issue. Will the inquiry start sitting before we have that legislation?

While I am not in charge of the time-table in this House, it is hoped that legislation dealing with the Rookes v. Barnard case will be introduced shortly after Christmas. I hope, in the comparatively near future, to be able to tell the House the terms of reference of the inquiry.

Will the right hon. Gentleman be putting a time-table on the inquiry?

I have not thought of that. I do not know whether or not such authority rests with me.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware of the dissatisfaction among Immingham dockers at the working of the Dock Labour Scheme for Grimsby and Immingham which gives priority of jobs at Immingham to Grimsby dockers; if he will vary the scheme, and establish a separate register for Immingham workers; and if he will make a statement.

No such dissatisfaction has been reported to me. I am, however, having inquiries made and will write to the hon. Gentleman.

Will the hon. Gentleman take it from me that many of my constituents feel that they have had a very raw deal for many years? Is he aware that they have made protests to the branch that amalgamates the two smaller units and that the Immingham men feel that they always get the worse part of the choice because the majority of the men in the branch live at Grimsby? Will the hon. Gentleman see that they get a fair crack of the whip?

The hon. Member will readily appreciate that there are enormous numbers of people who have had a raw deal in recent years. We hope to change that. The day-to-day working of the scheme at any particular port is a matter for the dock labour boards, and my right hon. Friend has no powers to intervene.

On a point of order, In view of the absolutely unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will state the relationship between the inter-departmental committee on industrial training and retraining which he has appointed, and the Central Training Council established under the Industrial Training Act, 1964.

The inter-departmental committee is a part of the machinery of government for securing co-ordination between the Government Departments concerned on important training issues. It is in no sense a substitute for the Central Training Council. The Council will remain the principal forum in which the views of leaders from industry and the educational world can be focused and brought to bear on the development of policy in the field of industrial training. Discussions on the inter-departmental committee will, of course, be very much influenced by the views of the Council, and both I and my colleagues will give the greatest weight to these views in the decisions we have to make.

While welcoming the emphasis which the Minister has placed on the importance of the work of the Central Training Council, which I fully endorse, may I ask whether it is not some-what unusual to publish formal details about an inter-departmental committee and particularly its terms of reference? The right hon. Gentleman and I know very well that there are many interdepartmental committees at all levels of Government which meet all the time, and they are not usually given this formality. Does not this announcement give special importance to this committee? Can the right hon. Gentleman inform us that the Central Training Council will continue to be, as intended, the main forum for the discussion of these problems?

I considered it important to inform the House of the establishment of this committee in view of the announcement in the Queen's Speech of the Government's intention to improve arrangements for industrial training. Having said that, I again emphasise that the Central Training Council will be the main forum.

In the light particularly of the first part of that answer, is it not true that this is really a piece of window dressing on behalf of the Prime Minister?

No. The right hon. Gentleman is far wider awake than that. He knows very well that when the machinery of Government for education and for labour is inter-mixed, it is necessary to have a co-ordinating body. It is not a piece of window-dressing. It is a very important piece of co-ordination in industrial training. I again emphasise that it will perform a useful function, but the Central Training Council will still be the main forum.

asked the Minister of Labour which associations of employers and workers accepted his invitation to send representatives to the second African Regional Conference of the International Labour Organisation which opened at Addis Ababa on 30th November.

The British Employers' Confederation and the Trades Union Congress were invited to appoint representatives to a full tripartite delegation to this conference. The B.E.C. accepted this invitation but the T.U.C. did not. In these circumstances, it was decided to send an observer delegation instead. The B.E.C. did not wish to join such a delegation. I understand that the T.U.C. would have done so but found it impracticable to send anyone.

In view of recent developments, will the Minister take steps to assert the right of free association of employers' organisations and trade unions in communist-controlled areas such as Tanzania?

I am not sure what that means. All I can say is that the T.U.C. and the B.E.C. did not see fit to join in an observer delegation.

asked the Minister of Labour how many accidents occurred to employees in the catering industry in the years 1953, 1958 and 1963, respectively; and how the incidence of accidents in this industry compares with the general incidence of accidents in British industry.

There are no statistics available in our Department, since the Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Act, under which accidents in catering establishments must be reported, only came into force on 1st August, 1964. On the basis of claims for industrial injury benefit made to the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance, it would appear that the accident rate in the catering and hotel industry, in each of the years 1953, 1958 and 1953, was substantially lower, in relation to numbers employed, than the rate for all industries and services.

As this is one of the most significant and most accident-prone industries in the lighter range, is there not justification for a special inquiry by the Factories Inspectorate into it, and does not the Minister agree that the substantial percentage of old and female labour employed, with the dangers of scalding, bruising and injury from the carrying of excessive weights, gives further justification for such an inquiry?

I repeat that, from the information available, it appears that the incidence of accidents is less than in industry generally. It is rather difficult to make the comparison because of the different types of return rendered to the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance in past years. We shall now be comparing these and our factory inspectors are giving local authorities guidance about enforcement. My right hon. Friend will be laying before Parliament next year the statistics for the last five months of this year in his first Annual Report under the Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Act. We are concerned that there have been some serious accidents reported, and we think it important that an effective check should be made.

asked the Minister of Labour how many registered disabled workers are unemployed in Thorne and Goole; and what special action is being taken to find suitable employment for them.

On 9th November, there were 80 registered disabled persons registered as unemployed at Thorne Employment Exchange and 36 at Goole. Our local officers are doing all they can to find them suitable openings.

Is my hon. Friend aware that some of these unemployed men and women are people of high intelligence, and that some of them, having been sent away for special courses of training for re-employment, had the grievous disappointment, on their return, of finding that there was no work for them in the industry for which they had been trained? Will he take special steps to see that local employment officers set about finding work for them in a much more vigorous way than in the past and, perhaps, consult Remploy about the establishment of a local factory?

I agree that the level of unemployment among the disabled in Thorne is considerably higher than the national average. The main difficulty is lack of light industry and efforts are being made to encourage firms which could provide suitable work to move to the district. I am sure that my hon. Friend will agree that the local employment exchanges are doing all they possibly can in this matter. Remploy factories are intended for the severely disabled, and there are insufficient of these unemployed in the area to justify one being set up.

asked the Minister of Labour what new action he is taking in regard to the delay in the docks of exports, examples of which, such as footwear needed for the Christmas trade in Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, and France, have been given in the correspondence sent to him by the hon. Member for Louth; and if he will make a statement.

On the immediate question of restrictions on weekend working which are contributing to the delays in certain ports, including London, I am seeing the two unions particularly concerned today. On the wider issues, the Committee of Inquiry under the chairmanship of Lord Devlin which has reported on wages will now be examining the subjects of decasualisation, causes of dissension in the industry and other matters affecting efficiency of working.

I wish the Minister good luck in his interview today and I hope that he gets results, but does he agree that many exporters, such as footwear manufacturers, find that their exports are held up by these irritating delays in the docks and that, if we are to get our exports where we want them, the docks problem must be solved? Would not his right hon. Friend Mr. Frank Cousins do better if he shared the Minister's bed of nails instead of playing with technology?

The last part of that supplementary question was not worthy of the hon. Gentleman. On the first part, I agree that we must somehow or other, and quickly, find a solution to these problems at the docks. We are bedevilled by history and the mess of generations and I can only say at this point that, once hon. Gentlemen let me off the hook, I shall resume consultations with the union.

Will the Minister ensure that Lord Devlin's Committee has every opportunity to visit foreign docks such as Antwerp and Rotterdam which have had a much more successful record than we have had in many cases in order to try to discover some of their secrets?

I do not give instructions to Lord Devlin or his Committee. I am sure that he will note what has been said.

Does the Minister agree that some of the restrictive practices operated in the docks are the worst in the country, and is not this by far the most urgent problem to be investigated?

The hon. Gentleman generalises again. I do not know whether they are the worst in the country. There are certain other areas of industry which I should want to look at very carefully before saying that about the docks. I am trying to clear up a mess. I do not yet know how to do it, but I am doing my best.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that a trade dispute between the Heating and Domestic Engineers' Union and the Plumbing Trades' Union is causing delay in the installation and renewal of heating in schools and colleges in Newcastle-upon-Tyne; and what steps he is taking to resolve the dispute.

Yes. My officers have held meetings with the parties. Unfortunately, these did not result in a settlement. Since then, however, the executives of the two unions have met and I am hopeful that, as a result of their efforts, this dispute will soon be brought to an end. My officers will continue to keep in close touch with the situation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, as a result of this unfortunate inter-union dispute, there is now a serious threat to the educational work of the City of Newcastle? Is he aware that this unfortunate dispute on a demarcation point has been dragging on for no less than three months and that, in addition to holding up the installation of heating systems in new educational establishments, in old educational establishments where the heating system was due to be renewed in midsummer the renewal has not yet been done? Will he use his every energy to bring this ridiculous situation to an end?

Yes, Sir. As the hon. Gentleman knows, at this stage the general secretaries of the two unions concerned are doing all they possibly can to reconcile the differences at local level.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the district committee will be meeting on 15th December in connection with this dispute? May we be assured that, if it does not accept the respective national executive committees' findings, my right hon. Friend will use his good offices as speedily as possible after the decision on that date is known, as this regrettable dispute has lasted so long and is holding back educational building needed in the city?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Labour how many skilled and unskilled workers whose last employment was in the construction industry are at present unemployed in Scotland.

At 9th November, 10,364 workers whose last employment was in the construction industry were registered as unemployed in Scotland. Of these, 10,001 were men aged 18 and over, of whom 1,187 were skilled. I regret that an occupational analysis of the remaining 132 women, 224 boys and seven girls is not available.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that the impact of the 7 per cent. Bank Rate in Scotland will increase the problem of unemployment in the construction industry there?

I should like to congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his supplementary question. For any Tory to weep crocodile tears about unemployment in Scotland requires a degree of brass-faced cheek which is most impressive.

Can my hon. Friend say how many of the skilled and unskilled workers referred to in the Question belong to the shipping and associated industries in north-eastern Scotland and what steps he is taking to reduce the number by correcting the delusion propagated by the last Government that the north-east of this island ended at Newcastle-upon-Tyne?

I am afraid that my hon. and learned Friend's Question goes rather wider than the original Question.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of the number of wage thefts, he will seek co-operation from the trades unions to extend the payment of wages by cheque.

Under the Payment of Wages Act, 1960, the individual worker can decide whether he wants to be paid by cheque. I would not wish to interfere with this freedom of choice.

Yes, but would not the hon. Gentleman agree that the progress in achieving acceptance by the unions of payment by cheque has been highly unsatisfactory since the passage of the Act, and does he not feel that the time has come to urge upon the unions the need for additional use of this procedure?

I am quite satisfied from my experience that the unions generally know what is in the best interests of their members. I should certainly not feel justified in exerting any influence upon them. Bearing in mind ordinary banking facilities and working hours, even hon. Members would be asking for some of their salary to be paid in cash if it were not for the special facilities that we have at the Post Office.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that the best way to stop wage thefts is to punish more severely those who thieve?

asked the Minister of Labour if, in view of the importance of regional planning and the need for full information on which to base it, he will take steps to publish average weekly earnings of male manual workers in the north-east of England Development Area for a suitable date in 1964.

Figures for the northeast of England Development Area are not available. This area, however, accounts for some 90 per cent. of the insured population of northern region for which figures of earnings of adult male manual workers are regularly published in the Ministry of Labour Gazette and the quarterly publication "Statistics on Incomes, Prices, Employment and Production".

Is my hon. Friend aware that it is extremely difficult to make comparisons between areas such as the North-East, which are receiving economic aid, and areas such as Norfolk, which may well deserve such aid, because comparative figures are not available? Is he prepared to take steps to secure such figures?

We will certainly keep the matter under review. This is a rather complicated subject, but we will give it our attention.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement on the labour problems caused by the proposed closure of the General Electric Company's factory at Four Ashes, near Wolverhampton; what period of notice the workers affected are under; and what steps he is taking with regard to the matter.

asked the Minister of Labour how many workers have become redundant at the General Electric Company's factory at Four Ashes, near Wolverhampton; what period of notice they are under; and what plans he has for assisting them.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the decision to close the General Electric Company's factory at Four Ashes, near Wolverhampton, affecting the employment of approximately 400 work-people; and what action he is taking to prevent the dispersal of the trained labour force.

asked the Minister of Labour what provision he is making for workers rendered redundant by the closure of the General Electric Company's factory at Four Ashes, near Wolverhampton.

I am aware of this proposed closure. I understand from the company that of the 758 workers employed on 19th November when the closure was announced some 258 had left by 4th December and that a further 90 had been offered employment at other G.E.C. establishments in the area. A phased redunancy, with the statutory period of notice to each worker, is to take place between 11th December and 26th March. My local officers took advance registrations of 284 workers at the factory last week and have offered a similar service to the remainder. Employment prospects in the area within reasonable travelling distance are very good and my Department will do all it can to assist those who need to seek help in finding other work.

Will my right hon. Friend give the House information on the following points? First, has there been to his knowledge any consultation between the managements and the unions or the workers' representatives in regard to this redundancy? Secondly, is it correct that only two weeks' advance information has been given to some of the men of their redundancy, and that there was an advertisement issued by the factory for fresh labour only eight weeks ago, in consequence of which men gave up other employment and their homes in order to take these new jobs and now find themselves with the prospect of being out of work and without a home? Thirdly, is it true that the largest amount of compensation offered to men who have worked for the firm for 21 years is five weeks' pay, and does this not indicate the need for the Government to press on with all speed with their legislation dealing With redundancy and severance pay?

On the first two points, I understand that there has been bitter complaint from the unions about the sudden announcement on 19th November, and that bitterness has been expressed about the lack of consultation that took place beforehand. I also understand that there is great feeling about the terms of compensation, which, as my hon. Friend has said, amounts to five weeks' pay for over 21 years' service. The point is that the firm is complying with the statutory requirements of the Contracts of Employment Act. There is little that I can do about it other than to accept the hon. Member's suggestion to press forward with our legislation on redundancy and severance pay. I would add that I have received no representations from the unions on the matter.

Are we not here dealing with one of the very great companies of this country? How comes it that a company with all these ramifications and the experience that it should have of relations with employees carries out a policy like this with all its anti-social implications?

I can only say that it is a pity that such things should arise and that we would hope to alter much of them in the term of this Government.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that it cannot possibly be in the national interest to close a factory of this nature and disperse its highly skilled labour? Could he refer the matter to his right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade to see whether the Government might be able to take over the factory and use it for constructive production?

I will take note of what my hon. Friend says in the last part of his supplementary question. In reply to the first part, my information is that the whole of the labour force is not highly skilled and that a large measure of it is semi-skilled.

asked the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs if, in view of the fact that British diplomatic representatives abroad are not doing enough to promote British exports, he will take steps to relate their salaries and expenses directly to the achievement of a rapid and sustained increase in British exports.

No, Sir. I do not accept that British diplomatic representatives are not doing enough to promote British exports. This is one of their most important tasks and they treat it as such. But actual orders have to be won by exporting firms and organisations.

As my hon. Friend knows, foreign affairs is about war or trade. Would he not agree that a great deal more of the Department's resources and manpower should be devoted to obtaining increased orders? Would he not further agree that there is a need to increase the status and emoluments of commercial and marketing officers? Finally, would he not also agree that there is a considerable need for market research officers in appropriate cases where our country can achieve a considerable increase in exports?

Commercial officers of the Foreign Office are members of the Diplomatic Service and their salaries and allowances are, as recently agreed under the recommendations of the Plowden Committee, the same as for other members of the Service. Active steps have been taken in recent years to give diplomatic officers doing commercial work the fullest opportunity to train in that work in this country.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, starting with the Labour Government after the war, diplomatic representatives have been playing an increasingly important and effective part in our export trade? Will he point out to them that the implications in the Question and the supplementary question do not represent the opinion of either side of the House of those who are doing this work?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his tribute to the commercial work of our diplomatic representatives. My Department receives many compliments from exporters about the kind of help that they have received from our commercial officers overseas.

Whilst not wishing to criticise any members of the existing diplomatic staff, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he does not agree that there is urgent need for an expansion of our staffs abroad on both the technical and the sales sides?

We are always ready to expand the work we do to help British commercial interests overseas but my hon. Friend's supplementary question might be better addressed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Will the hon. Gentleman ask the Government, before they increase their own salaries, not to make our diplomatists' tasks more difficult by surcharges and other irritations which have antagonised almost every other country?

That is quite another question. There are questions on that subject on the Order Paper later.

asked the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs what is the extent to which British-owned rubber estates and other properties in Indonesia have been affected by compulsory acquisition in consequence of the policies of the Indonesian Government.

By a Degree dated 26th November, the Indonesian Government officially confirmed that all British-owned commercial interests in Indonesia, including rubber estates, had been placed under complete and direct Indonesian management and control.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there are about £200 million worth of British assets in Indonesia and that for many years these companies have been subjected to savage taxation and unreasonable trading conditions? Is he aware that if strong economic retaliatory action is not taken it will merely encourage other countries to solve their financial problems by expropriating British property?

It is very difficult to put a figure on the value of the assets concerned, but our estimate is that it is well over £100 million. It is not the policy of the Government to indulge in retaliatory expropriation. In any case, we believe that by this kind of action the Indonesian Government are likely to do themselves a great deal of economic damage.

Is my hon. Friend aware that I and other right hon. and hon. Members on both sides deplore this country being pushed around by Indonesia or any other country? Nevertheless, can he tell me whether these expropriations have taken place since the Labour Government took office?

Yes. In my Answer I stated that the decree was dated 26th November. But I agree with my right hon. Friend's general point of view. Certainly, Her Majesty's Government are not to be deterred by this kind of action from supporting our Commonwealth ally, Malaysia, in face of the acts of aggression against her by the Indonesian Government.

For purposes of accuracy, will my hon. Friend inform the House whether similar action has not been taken by the Indonesian Government before 26th November?

I beg my right hon. Friend's pardon. I misunderstood his original supplementary question. Of course, this is only the latest of a number of actions of a similar character carried out by the Indonesian Government.

Will the hon. Gentleman convey this Question and Answer to the Prime Minister in Washington and ask him to discuss this matter with President Johnson to see whether the United States will withhold the aid it is giving to Indonesia and back this country up in some commercial matters?

I am sure that the affairs of South-East Asia will figure in the Washington conversations.

asked the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make a statement on Her Majesty's Government's policy towards the use of Article 19 of the United Nations Charter, which deprives member States of their vote if they are over two years in arrears with their financial contributions to the Organisation.

asked the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs what instructions are being issued to the United Kingdom delegation at the United Nations with regard to the voting rights of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics under Article 19 of the Charter.

Her Majesty's Government's policy is to work for a settlement of the Article 19 issue in accordance with the United Nations Charter. We consider that under that article States two years or more in arrears with their contributions have no vote in the General Assembly. I ought to emphasise that we do not regard this as an East/West confrontation but as a question of principle under the Charter of the United Nations, the authority of which must be upheld if the rule of law in international affairs is to be maintained and the United Nations effectively strengthened.

Will the hon. Gentleman say what kind of proposals for a compromise he is considering, since he has stated acceptance of the principle of the International Court's judgment so clearly? Will he also state the Government's attitude to the 59-nation Afro-Asian group's suggestion for shelving the matter indefinitely in order that the General Assembly may both vote and work?

The Government and my noble Friend, Lord Caradon, are doing all they can to assist in getting a settlement of this matter in accordance with the principles I have just described. This matter is under active negotiation in New York at the moment and I would not wish to say anything which might prejudice those negotiations.

Will the hon. Gentleman say whether it is the Government's expectation that this matter will be settled during the present General Assembly session?

We all hope that it will be settled, because Her Majesty's Government are very anxious, as I hope to explain to the House a little later, to enhance the peace-keeping operations of the United Nations, and this must be the first step towards that.

asked the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs whether Her Majesty's Government have submitted their views to the Expert Committee which was established by the Security Council Resolution of 18th June, 1964, and of which the United Kingdom is a member; and whether they will now communicate those views to the House.

Her Majesty's Government are taking a full part in the work of the Committee and are expressing their views on all questions as they arise during the Committee's work. We shall also be answering, both on our own behalf and on behalf of our dependent territories, the Questionnaire sent to all members of the United Nations by the Committee. The Committee has decided that its proceedings shall be confidential. I cannot therefore disclose at present the contents of these replies.

asked the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in view of the prospects for improved Anglo-Arab relations, he will make an early official visit to the Arab world.

We have the possibility of a Ministerial visit to the area very much in mind, but no decision has yet been taken.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but will he bear in mind that there have been certain important developments there, such as the new Government of Saudi Arabia, the changes in the Yemen and our relations with Libya, which would make an immediate visit both necessary and important?

We have all these matters very much in mind.

Will the hon. Gentleman also bear in mind that the recent bomb outrages in Aden were almost certainly Egyptian-sponsored? Will he make representations to President Nasser that if he wants better relations with this country, this is not the best way to set about it?

The whole House will deplore the use of violence in Aden in recent days. The authorities of the U.A.R. are already aware of our views on this matter and any other similar matters which might cause difficulties in our relations, and these will be much in our minds when considering the idea of a visit to Cairo.

Will my hon. Friend take into consideration when arranging such visits the serious war declarations made time and again by Arab States against Israel, including the recent resolution in Alexandria, and point out to them that these are quite contrary to the United Nations Charter and cannot possibly be tolerated?

One of the purposes in seeking better relations with the States of the Arab world is to contribute to a more stable situation in the Middle East as a whole. The Foreign Secretary had an opportunity to talk about these matters with the Deputy Prime Minister of Israel when the latter passed through London recently on his way to New York.