asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many children aged five years are receiving part-time education in Clydebank and Kirkintilloch; and what steps he is taking to remedy the situation.

None in Clydebank; 56 in Kirkintilloch, all of whom are beginners in the primary department of one school. The authority is seeking additional staff required to bring part-time education to an end.

My information is that in the Burgh of Clydebank a considerable number of primary school children are receiving only part-time education, and as we had under the previous Administration very savage cuts in our school building programme, would my hon. Friend take emergency steps to see that by prefabrication we can get accommodation so that these children may have full-time education?

I understand that at the beginning of the session there was one class of beginners at Clydebank having part-time education. I think the difficulty is largely shortage of staff rather than shortage of accommodation. We are looking very closely at all the means we can take to increase staff.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many voluntary nursery schools there are in the County of Dunbartonshire under the auspices of the National Association of Pre-School Playgroups; and what steps he proposes to take to encourage such schools.

I understand that the Association has two member groups in Milngavie—of which one is registered with the local health authority. I think that the extension of these activities is essentially a matter for voluntary effort, which I hope will be encouraged by the Milngavie initiative.

Would my hon. Friend consider recommending that some aid be given to these organisations, because they are doing excellent work? I feel sure that they would submit themselves to some surveillance and control. This is a highly desirable project, and I feel sure that some grant in aid would be welcomed by the Association.

One is very glad indeed to see these play groups embarked upon, because they are very useful. We give a small grant to the Nursery Schools Association and some local education authorities make grants. It is a matter which my right hon. Friend would need to discuss with local education authorities.

Would my hon. Friend consider the possibility of encouraging local authorities to start a nursery class in each school as a means of encouraging married women teachers to return to teaching?

We are very glad indeed to welcome local education authorities' provision of nursery classes where there are married teachers and we shall continue to encourage them wherever we can.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will introduce proposals for a widows and orphans pension scheme for the teaching profession as part of a comprehensive plan to increase the attractiveness of teaching as a profession.

My right hon. Friend initiated on 4th December the formal consultations required by the Education (Scotland) Act prior to the introduction of such a scheme. My right hon. Friend hopes soon to have the views of the representatives of education authorities and of teachers who have been consulted on the terms of the scheme proposed.

Will my hon. Friend give an assurance that she treats this problem with the urgency which it deserves, and which has not been evident for many years past? Is she aware that there are cases of considerable hardship arising out of the lack of such a scheme, and will she give an assurance that the whole matter will be discussed with the teaching profession as a whole because of the tremendous teacher shortage we are cursed with?

I can assure my hon. Friend that we are regarding this as a matter of great urgency. We are consulting the various bodies concerned in presenting draft regulations by the beginning of the year and bringing the scheme into operation from 1st April. I can tell him that, as he probably knows, the working group with which the teachers themselves were closely involved was concerned in preparing the scheme we are to introduce.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what will be the terms of reference of the proposed Scottish Planning Board; how many members will serve on the Board; and what is the estimated annual cost of administering the Board.

The Board will, under my right hon. Friend's general direction, co-ordinate the relevant work of the Government Departments concerned in the formulation and execution of plans for regional development in Scotland. Its chairman will be an officer of the Scottish Office and its members will be drawn from the various Departments concerned. It may not be possible for the annual costs of administering it to be separately identified in the expenditure of the various Departments.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for his reply, may I ask him whether he will not agree that, while this work of the Scottish Planning Board has been promoted with some enthusiasm for many years by hon. and right hon. Members opposite, the people of Scotland still, even after his reply, have no clear idea as to precisely what the Board is to do? Would he state once for all whether the Board will have any executive powers, because if it does not have executive powers it will merely be a talking shop of well-meaning people clogging up the administrative machinery in Scotland?

Yes, it will. I think probably the best thing would be for the hon. Gentleman to await the announcement which is to be made by the First Secretary of State within the next day or two concerning these boards.

While being only too delighted to await the statement, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to tell me whether there is any difference between the answer he has given on this and what the Scottish Development Group has in fact been doing for the last two years?

The important difference will, of course, be that this will be a much better equipped group to deal with the question of economic planning. In other words, we intend to give it some economic content.

While, no doubt, nobody would deny the need for planning, can the hon. Gentleman say whether he is having any effective discussions with the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to whether the necessary money will be made available for implementing these plans?

I think the hon. Gentleman had better wait till the announcement is made by the First Secretary.

Is my right hon. Friend keeping in mind the necessity of not waiting till complete plans are ready before action is taken, so that where it is clear that certain money can be made available and a plan is already in existence, as, for instance, that for the Great Glen, and it can be seen to fit in with the ultimate plan, action can be taken on each part as it becomes possible?

This will in fact be done. Work which is to be done and can be seen to be of a kind which will fit into the plan will in fact be proceeded with.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that comprehensive reorganisation of the structure of local government in Scotland is required; and when he intends to submit proposals to the House to achieve this.

I have nothing to add to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton) on 11th November.

While appreciating the guidance which the right hon. Gentleman gave on that occasion, may I ask whether he would not agree that what Scottish people are concerned about is that local government in its present form is increasingly unable to carry out the functions given to it in ever-increasing amounts since 1929? Can he give an assurance that he will further the impetus given to this programme by the White Paper issued last year?

On the first part of the question, yes. On the second part, we are taking every step we can to have this very complex matter properly examined before making a decision. A precipitate decision would probably be the wrong one.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether the Government are continuing the committee of local authority associations which has been studying this problem?

Yes.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the principal concern is with local government finance, particularly the burden placed on many local authorities in the past decade, and that we shall make little progress in modernising the structure of Scottish local government till we solve this basic problem of money?

Yes. My right hon. Friend made that point perfectly clear in his Answer on 11th November, and it is absolutely essential to our consideration.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the difficulty of administering remote rural councils if the centre of regional government is to be over a hundred miles away? Will he be able to get representatives to go all that distance?

I really cannot anticipate whatever recommendations there may be from the working party. I am sure that very pertinent point will be uppermost in the working party's mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, in view of the need for modernised hospital accommodation, he will bring forward the starting date of the new general hospital to be built at Airdrie.

My right hon. Friend is at present reviewing the whole hospital building programme, but I think it is unlikely that he will be able to bring forward the starting date for this scheme.

Is my hon. Friend aware that competent medical opinion has described hospital accommodation, with the exception of the new Bellshill Maternity Hospital, as being half a century out of date, and is she aware that part of the delay is due to the planning taking place at the present time? Will she ask her right hon. Friend to get cracking on the project? Let us have this hospital much earlier than was anticipated, because of the urgent need in this community.

I appreciate much of what my hon. Friend has said. In fact I can assure him that there have not been holdups because of planning delays. The regional hospital board has been planning seven district hospitals in this area. On that part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question about bringing the work forward, the problem is the urgent need for hospital accommodation all over Scotland. That is why we shall be reviewing the hospital programme as a matter of urgency.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will authorise the starting of the new schools for Airdrie High School and Coatbridge St. Patrick's High School, for January-February, 1965; and if he will make a statement.

I understand that Lanarkshire education authority proposes to start these projects as soon as it is ready; the likely dates are, respectively, autumn and spring 1965.

Yes, but is my hon. Friend aware that on two or three occasions we were told that these schools were earmarked to be started at the beginning of 1964? Is she aware that at Airdrie High School we are using accommodation condemned 40 years ago and that at St. Patrick's School we have the most deplorable and shocking overcrowding situation imaginable in Scotland at present? In view of the urgency, and the high rate of unemployment in this part of Lanarkshire, will my hon. Friend give us some hope of starting the work earlier, even though the money may be borrowed in the next financial year?

The difficulty here is not one of anticipating the money allocation. Airdrie High School is a large and complicated project, and it is now going to start in the autumn. I do not see that there is any possibility of the education authority itself bringing it forward. St. Patrick's High School is due to start in the spring, but if it should start a little before the present financial year ends, there will be no objection coming from us.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent, following the recent extension of fishing limits, he has considered the possibility of alternating conservation zones so that they are not permanently fixed, as at present, within the three-mile belt; and if he will make a statement.

The restrictions on certain methods of fishing inside the threemile belt were made primarily in the interests of small boat fishermen; where their purpose is conservation it is to protect plaice nursery grounds, which are nearly all inside the three-mile belt. My right hon. Friend can see no advantage, therefore, in the hon. Member's suggestion.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this idea is supported by experienced skippers of inshore fishing boats in the north of Scotland, and probably elsewhere, and that the idea is that over periods of perhaps five or 10 years some of the area between three and six miles might be put into conservation, while the area from the shore up to three miles might be brought into fishing use? A long-term rotation of this kind could be beneficial.

It is difficult to see how this proposition would affect the plaice beds. It would not affect them at all. With regard to other forms of fishing, fish migrate from belt to belt. There does not seem to be anything to be achieved by changing the present procedure.

Does my hon. Friend realise that the complications from which Scottish fishermen in the North Sea suffer already are great enough, and that the solution to their difficulties is not that indicated in the Question, but lies in protecting the existing rights—something which has not been done—and seeing that the fishing industry is properly preserved?

I am not quite sure what my hon. and learned Friend is suggesting, or what he wants an answer to, but if he is suggesting that the Moray Firth should be closed, perhaps I might point out that this was debated when the new limits were imposed, and the decision at that time was that in the best interests of fishing nothing further should be done.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if the studies of the Highlands, the Border, the northeast and the south-west of Scotland, which were undertaken by the Scottish Development Group, are being continued.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is continuing the study of the development plan for the north-east of Scotland; and what immediate proposals he has to make.

All these four studies are being pressed forward as quickly as possible within the framework of the Government's policies for the country as a whole.

Will the hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that the thorough studies and sincere searches for solutions which have been carried out, and are being carried out, through the Scottish Development Group with the local authorities and other bodies concerned will not be prejudiced by ill-considered decisions and measures taken for purely doctrinaire reasons?

Yes, Sir.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that my Question applies mainly to the north-east development area of Scotland where recent Government measures, in particular the surcharge and the petrol duty, are causing real difficulty to two firms, due to the geography of the area, and also to the varied nature of their businesses? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this has come at a time when we have just begun to break the unemployment difficulties of the area, and that there is a real need for him to treat the development areas as special areas and to try to gain some alleviation for their economic problems in that way?

That is hardly related to the hon. Gentleman's Question which asks whether the study of the plan for the North-East is continuing. The answer to that is "Yes". The second part of the Question is whether there are any immediate proposals to be made. The answer to that is that we are awaiting the report of the Planning Group on the North-East.

Will the hon. Gentleman assure us that there will be no delay in the publication of the study for north-east Scotland, and that the north-east section will not be delayed to enable the Government first to complete their plans for a Scottish Planning Board?

Yes, Sir.

Can the hon. Gentleman give any indication of the approximate date when the south-west plan will be published?

We expect all the plans to be put forward by the middle of next year. It has not yet been decided how best to publish them.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will review the allocations of money for school building in Scotland over the next three years.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what proposals he has for altering the existing financial provisions for school building in Scotland.

The factors determining the amount of investment for school building include the capability of the building industry, the general economic position, and the rate of economic growth. Whilst at present my right hon. Friend can hold out no prospect of increasing the allocations, he will keep the position under close study.

Is the hon. Lady aware that that reply will cause some disquiet, as indeed did the announcement of the allocation of money during the last Administration? This cut-back in allocation will postpone the much needed improvement of school buildings, and, secondly, it seems to be in direct contradiction of the intention to raise the school leaving age to 16 by 1970.

The raising of the school leaving age by 1970 presents its own special problems. On the general question of the allocation of money for school building, we are confronted with the economic circumstances in which we find ourselves, and there can be no way out of this at the moment.

Does the hon. Lady realise that during the election campaign her party made considerable play of the school building cuts? Does her Answer mean that that campaign was mere electioneering, and was sheer humbug?

It means that we had not quite anticipated the extent of the economic disaster which the party opposite left us.

Will not the hon. Lady admit that the economic situation of the country as a whole—and I do not accept her description of it—has very little to do with the particular needs of Scotland for which her right hon. colleagues have done nothing?

The right hon. Gentleman will, I think, be looking back at his own period as one of rather less than nothing if this is the definition he applies to what we are trying to do.

Is the hon. Lady suggesting that over the last two or three years Scotland has not had very considerably more than her share of money both for education and for other things, and is not this to continue?

What is quite clear is that Scotland will continue to get her fair share of everything that is going. What is also clear is that we have a great deal of catching up to do.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will take steps to assist the county council of Inverness to provide the necessary educational facilities for the incoming population anticipated as a result of the pulp mill, without detracting from their programme in other parts of the county.

This assistance is already being given.

But is not the hon. Lady aware that what in fact happens is that money which would otherwise be spent in other parts of the county has to be channelled to meet the problems of the pulp mill? Does not this detract to some degree from the regional development benefit which one gets from such a scheme?

I appreciate the point made by the hon. Gentleman, but less than half the value of the work in the Fort William area is directly attributable to the pulp mill. The rest was in the normal course of the school building programme. The allocation ahead took full account of the authority's need to provide new places and to make reasonable progress with modernisation and replacement in the rest of the area.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when work will start in the Strome Ferry bypass on road A.890.

I cannot say when it may be possible to authorise this bypass. My right hon. Friend will review highways needs in the Highlands in the light of the Highland study to be completed by the Scottish Planning Board next year.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the last Administration promised the local authority that this road would be started in 1963, and will he bear in mind the increase in tourist traffic in the area over the past few years?

I am so aware, and of the sins of the fathers as well. It is a fact that the Secretary of State for Scotland as far back as 1961 reached such an understanding, but this was based on a diversion of certain other road funds to which the Highland Panel itself took exception. I can only repeat the assurance that my right hon. Friend will review this in the light of the Planning Board's submission.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his right hon. Friend does not appear to be winning Cabinet battles for money as effectively as my right hon. Friend did?

That could not possibly arise from the Answer.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when work will be started on a permanent replacement for the temporary Bailey bridge on the A.9 road at Conon Bridge.

My right hon. Friend is seeking powers to build the bridge. The design work for the bridge and the making of a Trunk Road Order are expected to take at least a year. We hope, therefore, that work will start early in 1966.

Will the hon. Member remember that this Bailey bridge has been in existence for eight years and that it was made necessary because of the heavy traffic going to Dounreay, and also that. the Counties of Caithness and Sutherland were given all the bridges necessary to carry that traffic? Will he bear in mind the special circumstances that apply at Conon Bridge.

Yes. It is because I am aware of that, and also because we have a new Administration which is anxious to remedy many of the these difficulties, which have persisted for 13 years under the Government of the party opposite, that we are most anxious to proceed with this matter. My right hon. Friend is winning the battles in the Cabinet for road bridges such as this.

If that is so, will the hon. Gentleman tell us why his hon. Friend, when answering a supplementary question just now, said that all that we wanted for Scotland was a fair share on a population basis?

I am surprised at the right hon. Gentleman, with all his knowledge, quarrelling over a phrase like that. It is the fact that we are arguing the case on a population basis and, as my hon. Friend said in her concluding remarks, on a basis of need. This work we shall pursue with more success—I say this in all modesty— than the right hon. Gentleman and his predecessors.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will initiate a full investigation into the Solway Barrage Scheme.

A preliminary investigation of these proposals has already been made. The next step is for the new planning machinery to examine the project, along with similar proposals for Morecambe Bay, in the context of the very substantial and competing claims on the nation's capital investment resources over the coming years.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply, but can he assure me that the county councils and local authorities concerned will be brought into the discussion before a decision is made?

The Scottish Development Group has already had discussions with the local authorities on both sides of the Border and also with the North-West Study Group on this matter, as a result of which they have reached certain conclusions. They have also had discussions with Dr. Drew and experts from Strathclyde University. This has established the fact that the feasibility of impounding fresh water in the way proposed requires a further technical survey, which in itself would be a very considerable undertaking. That will be considered in due course.

Can pressure be put upon the Atomic Energy Authority to be helpful also?

When the planning machinery is set up and takes over the consideration of this project it will consider anything that is likely to assist it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will regard burghs of population of 2,000 and under as part of the landward areas of counties for grant purposes.

The general grant distribution formula will be considered as part of the comprehensive examination of local government finance which is now in progress. The question whether burghs of under 2,000 population should be regarded as part of the landward area for grant purposes is being kept in mind, but we must look at the whole pattern of grants and rate levels.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that in the county of Banff there are 11 small burghs, seven of which have a population of under 2,000, as a result of which great hardship is felt throughout the county? Is he aware that this applies not only to Banffshire but to other Scottish counties, and that we feel that these counties have a real hardship problem? Will he take urgent action to see that they receive redress and assistance?

I agree that the formula has not been to the advantage of Banff County, but the average rate payment per household in Banff is £20 19s., which is still well below the Scottish average of £32 14s. I am afraid that my right hon. Friend could not contemplate any change in the present grant arrangements until the general review has been completed.

I realise that no formula will suit every county, but after the review will the hon. Gentleman give special consideration to the problem of Banffshire and similar counties, because they really have a special difficulty?

It will all be considered when the review is going on—not before or after, but in the review—because the review must be essentially a Scottish one as well as having a relationship to the whole of the United Kingdom.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will remove the three-mile fishing limit in the Moray Firth, particularly with reference to seine net boats.

My right hon. Friend is advised that there are important plaice nurseries within the three-mile limit in this area and that it would not be in the best interests of the fisheries to do as the hon. Member suggests.

Is the Minister aware—in fact, I know that he is, because he has already said so—that the three-mile limit was imposed to protect the small line net boats? Cannot he say that areas could be designated for the protection of plaice beds and so on, instead of the lineal areas that exist at the moment? Is he aware of the frustration of the seine net boat fishermen at not being able to fish in areas where there is an abundance of fish in bad weather?

I am aware that some—not all—seine net fishermen would like this arrangement to be made, but we must also consider the line and creel fishermen, who would also have very strong objections if we gave effect to the proposal made by the hon. Member.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is not only a need for conservation of our fish stocks in many instances but also a need for their active development?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will set up a committee to examine the operation of the collection of feu duties in Scotland.

My right hon. Friend is aware that the feudal system of land tenure has features that are open to criticism in modern conditions and he has the question of review under consideration.

I thank my hon. Friend for that information, but is he aware that one of my constituents who is living in one of 16 flats which have been built in one feu was asked to collect all the feu duties of the remainder of the tenants or pay all the feu himself—and was told that if he refused he would be evicted from the house? Bearing this in mind, is my hon. Friend now prepared to give the matter further consideration?

I am aware of the case to which my hon. Friend refers and, as I have said, my right hon. Friend is considering this together with the other aspects of the problem.

Will my hon. Friend consider the introduction of legislation to abolish the feudal system?

As I said in my original Answer, we are at present considering the whole question with the object of seeing what steps should be taken to bring it into line with modern conditions.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will consult the Ayr County Council regarding the shortage of school accommodation in the Burgh of Irvine, and give it additional financial help, because of the educational problems arising from the development of this growth area.

My right hon. Friend is aware of the difficulties of providing new school accommodation in Irvine and will remain in close touch with the education authority on its future school building programme. The investment allocations will continue to allow for the new education needs of expanding areas.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the expanding industrial growth in the Burgh of Irvine, leading to a larger school population? Does not she agree that that, coupled with the Glasgow overspill commitments, is leading to a situation in Irvine which is causing resentment among parents, teachers and others who are interested in school education? Will not she agree to consult Ayr County Council so that appropriate steps can be taken to deal with the problem, which arises as a result of Government policy and not education authority policy?

I know the general problem involved. My right hon. Friend will keep the needs of Irvine very fully in mind and will continue to discuss them with the education authority. He will certainly ensure that the educational implications of further population development are kept very closely in mind in considering future allocations. One is aware of the difficulties Irvine is facing. The authority is coping with the problems very well, although it cannot do everything at once.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consideration he has given to the setting up of a small department within the Scottish Office to deal with forestry; and if he will make a statement.

The organisation of the Forestry Commission and the arrangements made by the Forestry Ministers for the discharge of their responsibilities are at present being reconsidered in the light of the Report on the Commission last Session by the Estimates Committee.

Now that forestry interests are to go to a separate Ministry in England and as I am sure that the Minister of State believes that forestry is of the very greatest importance to Scotland, does he not think that there is a case for a small addition to the Scottish Office staff to deal particularly with forestry so that the Forestry Commission, landowners, farmers and others may have an independent body they can go to advising his right hon. Friend?

Private woodland owners made certain complaints to the Estimates Committee about the present set-up, but they did not make this suggestion. With the establishment of a new Ministry this is clearly one of the questions which must be examined.

Will my hon. Friend consider at least the last Report of the Forestry Commission, whose main complaint with regard to the future planning of forestry was that the Commission was not getting the co-operation of landlords in the acquisition of land? Will he try to strengthen his Department in that respect to ensure that the Commission is able to plan forward for several years?

I can assure my hon. Friend that we shall certainly ensure that the Commission gets the land it wants.

What steps are being taken under the new organisation to ensure that there is no misuse of public money by the giving of grants for forestry when grants have already been given for the use of land for agriculture in the past? Is there liaison between the forestry Ministry and the Department of Agriculture?

The hon. Gentleman ought to wait until the appropriate Question is reached.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what rôle he envisages for the Scottish Council; and if he will make a statement.

I am sending the right hon. Gentleman a copy of a letter on this point which my right hon. Friend has written to Lord Polwarth as Chairman of the Scottish Council.

I shall await anxiously the receipt of the letter. I am sure that the Secretary of State appreciates, as we all do, the amount of really hard and successful work the Council has done and I hope that he will be able to find real use for the Council in the future.

We would wish to be associated with that tribute to the work of the Council. Arrangements for the future will allow the Council to continue the kind of work that it is doing at present.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations he is planning to hold with Aberdeen Trades Council, Aberdeen Chamber of Commerce and Aberdeen Corporation in preparing national and regional plans to promote economic development in Aberdeen and north-east Scotland.

When the Scottish Development Group has made further progress with the North-East Study on which it is engaged, there will be on-the spot consultations with a number of bodies in Aberdeen, such as those mentioned by my hon. and learned Friend.

Does the Minister realise that that Answer will give great satisfaction in northern Scotland? Does he also realise that during the last few years the inadequacy of such consultations has gone far to negative and frustrate any such plans for north-east Scotland, with the result that trade, industry and commerce have been neglected there and unemployment has grown?

Is the Minister of State aware that his hon. and learned Friend has shown by his supplementary question that he is quite misinformed and that a great deal of work has gone on in consultation? Indeed, it was my right hon. Friends who initiated the North-East Study Group which the present Government are now continuing.

I think that both my hon. and learned Friend and the noble Lady are quite correct.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the increase in the incidence of rickets in children in Glasgow, and that the uptake of vitamin welfare foods has declined by two-thirds in the last eight years, particularly since the imposition of increased charges in 1961; and if he will restore the free distribution of these foods.

My right hon. Friend is aware that there has been a sharp increase in the number of children treated for rickets in Glasgow, and that the uptake of welfare foods in Scotland is now about a third of what it was in 1956. I do not think that abolition of payment for welfare foods would in itself ensure that they are taken by the larger families in poorer housing areas who need them most.

Although that Answer is not wholly satisfactory, there is, nevertheless, the hint of a change from the policy of the previous Administration, which initiated these higher charges, putting children's health at risk. Can my hon. Friend say anything of the results of Dr. Arneil's investigation in Glasgow into the nutritional value of these foods and the need for the education of young mothers? Is the return of this disease due to the lack of nutrition or to the latter reason, or to both?

Dr. Arneil's report, for which I think everybody must be very grateful, shows that there are several possible factors, one of which certainly is that young mothers tend not always to know what are the best foods on which to put their young children when they have been weaned. Another factor, however, is lack of sunshine, which affects families in tenement areas in Glasgow. Lack of sunshine leads to lack of vitamin D. These are the kind of factors which merit a more comprehensive survey so that more definitive answers can be given.

Does what the hon. Lady has just said mean that it is really lack of education, not knowing the right diet, rather than lack of money which is at the root of the problem?

If the hon. Gentleman had listened more carefully, he would have heard that what he is suggesting is one factor. Clearly there are others. It is for this reason that a further study will be carried out.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what outside impartial advice is available to him when deciding competing claims for land use between agriculture and forestry.

In each case the views of the chairman of the Agricultural Executive Committee are sought in confidence to supplement the advice given by agricultural and forestry officials. Where crofting interest is involved the Crofters' Commission is consulted.

Would the Minister of State agree that, if fewer viable agriculture holdings had been planted up in earlier years, probably farmers would have been willing to give much more ground to forestry? Is it not essential that justice should appear to be done in land utilisation? Will he consider setting up a proper tribunal?

I am not quite certain what kind of land the hon. Gentleman is referring to, whether privately-owned land or land which is acquired by the Forestry Commission.

Land which could be economically used for farming.

There is a proper procedure for determining the use of land acquired by the Commission. The hon. Gentleman was given a full description of this on 16th July. He probably remembers it. No planning permission is required to devote part of land which is privately owned at present to forestry. I should have thought that the farmer would use his land to the best advantage.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is aware that, while the Forestry Commission has to satisfy the Department for Agriculture before using agricultural land for forestry, private owners are able to plant large areas of good agricultural land; and if he will take steps to control this situation.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer my right hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member for Aberdeenshire, West (Mr. Hendry) on 1st December.

Is the Minister aware that this question relates very largely to the competing interests of farming and forestry; and that unless he takes steps to control the situation on private land he will find great difficulty in getting the two interests to co-operate over Forestry Commission planting? I hope that this forms a large part of the Minister's plans for development in Scotland. Does he not agree that this is an extremely important situation, and that he needs to take steps to control it?

This problem does not arise to any considerable extent on land owned by the Forestry Commission. I think that during the past few years there has been an average of only one case a year coming to my right hon. Friend.

I am talking about private land. Is the Minister aware that in the north-east of Scotland large areas of good agricultural land have been planted because there are immense taxation advantages to a really rich landlord, and that this arouses immense resentment?

I am aware now of the land to which the hon. Gentleman was referring, though he did not make that clear in his first supplementary question. As I said earlier, there is no control at the present time, and control could be obtained only by legislation. Up to the present it has never been thought that legislation should be introduced for this purpose.

Does not land used for forestry rather than for agriculture give greater employment prospects, and is it not very useful to encourage it in those areas where we are worried about lack of jobs making people leave the land?

There are a great many arguments about the respective merits of forestry and agriculture. As I understand that the land to which the hon. Gentleman refers is quite suitable for forestry there does not seem any reason why it should not have been afforested. I must admit that I did not know anything about the special taxation benefits that can accrue. We are certainly quite prepared to keep the matter under observation in order to see what happens, but up to now we have not really come across this problem in such serious form as to warrant legislation.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has for extending the Small Farmers (Scotland) Scheme.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has for improving the Small Farmers (Scotland) Scheme.

The question of how best to assist small farmers is one of the matters which my right hon. Friend will be considering in consultation with the agricultural industry in the coming months. I cannot anticipate the result of these discussions.

When the Secretary of State reviews the Scheme, will he bear in mind that there are a number of small holdings which were set up by the Department after the First World War and that the present distinction between farms of 22 acres and farms of 18 acres which the occupant is farming whole-time is somewhat illogical? Would the Government seriously consider whether the time has not come to eliminate the minimal level for the application of the Small Farmers Scheme and make it purely dependent on the number of days worked by the applicant on a holding?

A large number of factors have to be considered. Clearly this is one of them.

Is my hon. Friend aware that one of the best ways to help small farmers in Scotland is to do something to reduce their rents? Is he aware that the disquiet of small farmers about their rents was recently expressed in a very interesting article in the Scottish Farmer? Some rents have doubled or trebled. That means as much as 2d. a gallon on milk. When the Government are revising their proposals for dealing with small farmers, will they keep in mind the absolute necessity for reducing their rents?

My attention was drawn to that article.

When considering help for the small farmers, will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that some small farmers go in for potato growing, and so have more than the 500 man-days laid down in the Scheme? Will he consider that fact very carefully, and not too rigidly regard 500 man-days as the line of demarcation for future help?

These matters are familiar to the farming interests, and to the organisations representative of farmers. As I said before, these questions are to be considered.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a report on the recent operation of the extensions of Scottish fishing limits indicating the number and nature of international fishing incidents which have resulted from that extension; and if he will make a statement.

Since the new fishery limits came into operation on 30th September, only one foreign fishing vessel, a Frenchman, has been detected fishing within the new limits off Scotland. This incident occurred on 1st October in the Firth of Clyde, and the vessel was warned and escorted outside the limits.

Does my hon. Friend realise that the fishing fleets in the North Sea are exposed to great danger and to limitations owing to recent legislation? What steps is he taking to see that the patrol vessels in the North Sea are sufficient for the purpose, having regard to modern scientific discoveries and inventions?

As I understand it, the question of the patrol vessels has been looked into.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the employment position in the Helmsdale district of Sutherland; and whether he will assist the Forestry Commission to obtain planting land in the Strath of Kildonan and elsewhere in order to double its planting programme.

My right hon. Friend is aware that there is unemployment in the Helmsdale area, and he hopes that the Forestry Commission may be able to help. It wants to acquire more land there, and has recently begun a survey of the Strath of Kildonan to assess its forestry potential. It is also in touch with a number of landowners in the district.

Is the Secretary of State for Scotland prepared to use the compulsory powers for acquiring land that I understand he has if he wishes to use them?

I think that we had first better wait for the result of the inquiry, and also for the approach to the land-owners. Up to the present, most landowners have been quite co-operative.

Can the Minister give an assurance that no agricultural land in the Helmsdale area will be planted with trees?

It depends on what the hon. Gentleman means by "agricultural land".

Does not the Minister think it a little odd that the hon. Member for Caithness and Sutherland (Mr. George Y. Mackie) should be trying to stop employment in the planting of trees in other constituencies, and gaining it in his own?

I think that both supplementary questions were quite reasonable.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what asistance or advice his Department is giving to Edinburgh Corporation about the traffic problems affecting the city.

My Department is giving all posible help to the working party which the Corporation has set up to advise on Edinburgh's future road network and ancillary matters. The Corporation also consults the Department about short-term traffic management measures.

Does the Minister agree that the abolition of the suburban rail services has added to the trouble, and will he consult his right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport with a view to altering the law, and taking powers to reintroduce those services?

I agree that this is very relevant, although this Administration can hardly be held responsible for some of the plans of the past. The work now being done by the survey should demonstrate the extent to which the city depends on public transport. A wider survey may be undertaken later on, but that is very much a matter for consideration depending on the initial report.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will seek power to control taxi fares in Scotland.

Town councils have adequate powers to control taxi fares by means of byelaws if they wish.

Does the Minister realise that taxi fares in Edinburgh are going up next month as a result of the fuel tax that has just been put on; and that this is hitting many of my constituents, and those of his hon. Friends? What does he intend to do about it?

The hon. Gentleman is strangely misinformed on that point. The increase was permitted by Edinburgh Corporation under legal enactments after the proposals had been advertised, and my right hon. Friend considered that adequate control. It has really no bearing on recent Government action.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will make a statement on the results of the Civil Defence recruiting campaign to date.

During the third quarter of this year, when the campaign was at its height, 1,284 persons joined the Civil Defence services in Scotland, compared with 1,005 during the comparable period last year. Figures for October onwards are not yet available.

What does the Minister intend to do about future recruiting campaigns for Civil Defence in order to try to get these figures?

This matter has to be considered. It has not been considered yet.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he proposes to introduce legislation to give effect to the proposals of the Wheatley Report.

Before the Christmas Adjournment, if at all possible.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Is she aware that this stands in favourable contrast to the policy of delay, dither and procrastination of the party opposite, when in power?

My right hon. Friend will be grateful to my hon. Friend for those remarks.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what proportion the average annual rent of local authority houses bears to the gross annual value of such houses.

Approximately three-quarters.

That is only about 75 per cent. of the gross annual value. Does not the hon. Gentleman think that this is a very low figure for local authority tenants to pay? As most of them could pay the equivalent of the gross value, will he get his right hon. Friend to try to get local authorities to bring their rents up to the gross value figure, so that they will have more money to spend on helping those people who are really in need of houses?

The statutory obligation, as the hon. Member most assuredly knows, is on local authorities to decide these matters. The wider question of the financial relationship between local authorities and the central Government is under very thorough review but I cannot add anything at the moment.

When will the result of the review be made public?

I hope that the review will be concluded some time in the spring or early summer, but I cannot say. It is an extraordinarily complex matter which the previous Government did not do much about.

Apart from exceeding the average figure which the hon. Gentleman mentioned, does the hon. Gentleman know that there are many local authorities where the rents are well below that average? Is he in the meantime prepared to take steps to deal with that, particularly in cities like Glasgow where the average rent is less than half of the total cost of housing?

This Administration is very confident. We will trust the local authorities.

Mr. Speaker, with permission, I should like to make a short business statement.

May I thank my right hon. Friend for the commendable speed with which he has proceeded in dealing with the Highland shipping undertaking?