asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, under his regulations, it is permissible for anyone, other than regular police forces, to display imitations of official police signs; and whether he will take steps to prevent this practice.

The use of these signs is not prohibited under any regulations made under police legislation. Highway authorities have powers to deal with unauthorised traffic signs and I do not consider that action is necessary on my part.

Is the Home Secretary aware that these signs go up off the highway on private roads but that they are, nevertheless, imitations of official police signs? In particular, for example, British Railways put them up on British Railways property. Is it not rather defrauding the public to put up imitations of police signs? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman, therefore, take steps to ensure that there are official police signs that no one else should use?

There are powers already in existence to deal with these signs under Section 56 of the Road Traffic Act, 1960, and Section 124 of the Highways Act, 1959. I have no information before me at the moment to lead me to think that those powers are inadequate, and, in any event, any extension of them would be a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport.

Has my right hon. and learned Friend's attention been drawn to a little bit of private enterprise by some householders who put up imitation police signs outside their houses to discourage parking under the title "Polite Notice"?

I have heard of that sort of thing being done. There are adequate powers under the ordinary law dealing with obstruction to take account of that type of sign. Again, I do not think that any further legislative powers are necessary, because existing powers can be used.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department for which makes of cars and goods vehicles ignition keys are supplied to the Metropolitan Police charged with the duty of removing vehicles causing an obstruction in the West End of London.

Vehicle removal crews of the Metropolitan Police are provided with keys to fit the majority of British-made vehicles and some foreign vehicles. Keys for new types of vehicles are issued when it becomes apparent that they are coming into fairly common use in the Metropolis.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the ignition keys fitted to certain well-known makes of cars normally used by the more affluent members of society are not usually supplied to the police and that this often leads to the erroneous impression that the police are enforcing one law for the rich and another for the poor? Will my hon. Friend take steps to ensure that ignition keys fitting these cars are provided so as to avoid the quite wrong impression that the police are to blame and to show that the blame lies elsewhere?

My information is that there is no class distinction in this matter and that the keys are issued according to the types of cars used in the country. This would apply to the more expensive cars as to the sort of car that I have.

In view of the fact that under Socialism only the wealthy can park their cars in the West End of London, is it not rather important that these keys should be supplied?

Will my hon. Friend go further into the matter and see if there are certain well-known makes of cars which are excluded, as I have indicated, regarding the supply of ignition keys to the police?

Certainly, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether the same standards are applied under the general orders of the Metropolitan Police Force for the prosecution of policemen involved in road accidents when off duty as are applied in the case of private citizens; and whether the same standards are accepted when a decision is made on the prosecution of a member of the public involved in an accident with a policeman who is off duty as would be accepted at all other times.

The answer to the first part of the Question is "Yes", except when a complaint is made by a member of the public; then the case is dealt with under the procedure prescribed by Section 49 of the Police Act, 1964. A member of the public involved in an accident with a Metropolitan police officer would not normally be prosecuted for an offence connected with the manner of his driving, except in certain cases which involve a third party or in exceptional circumstances such as flagrantly reckless or dangerous driving. In all cases the same standards are applied whether the Metropolitan police officer concerned is on or off duty.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is a widespread impression among the police and the public that different standards are applied, and that some of the police, for example, think that they do not get the treatment which they should get, while members of the public have a comparable impression? Will he, therefore, make it perfectly clear that the same standards are applied in all cases?

This is not an easy matter, because it involves the relationship between the police and the public. Proceedings are not normally taken against members of the public involved in accidents with a Metropolitan Police officer on or off duty, as it may be felt that the police, being parties to the accident, could not be wholly impartial. This is a long-standing arrangement intended to ensure that the public shall not be at a disadvantage. When a complaint is made by a member of the public against the police officer, the Commissioner of Police, unless satisfied after further investigation that no criminal offence has occurred, must send the report to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department to what extent the figure of 10,000 for evasion of control under the Commonwealth immigrants Act relates to certain Commonwealth countries only; what these countries were; and if he will give the evasion figures for other Commonwealth countries during the last two years.

I would refer my hon. Friend to item (5) of the reply that I gave on 22nd March to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Dearne Valley (Mr. Wainwright).

To the best of my knowledge, the extent to which evasion may or may not be taking place from Commonwealth countries, other than those which have been the main subject of debate in the House on the subject of immigration in recent months, has not been made clear. Could this kind of information be provided?

The figures which I gave in the Answer to which I have referred disclosed all the material from which inferences could be drawn as to whether there was any, and if so the scale of, evasion on the part of immigrants from the old Commonwealth countries.

In view of the great anxiety felt about these matters, could not a much fuller statement be made by the Home Secretary at an early date on the subject of evasion and on the rather disquieting figures about immigration which are now available? Does the right hon. Gentleman intend to make an early statement about these matters?

I do not feel that I could usefully embark upon any full statement until the return of the Mountbatten Mission with the information which it will bring back and the conclusions which it will form. Until that time, the matter must rest on the figures which have been published from time to time and, in particular, those to which I have just referred.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, in view of the facts that the literary remains of the late Sir Roger Casement are still in the custody of the British Government and that they are part of the history of Great Britain and Ireland, what arrangements exist to give Irish scholars and historians access to them for perusal and for literary and historical purposes.

The Casement diaries in the Public Record Office may be examined by historians, other responsible persons who have made a study of Casement's life and persons qualified to express an informed opinion on their authenticity. Applications for permisison to examine the diaries should be addressed to the Home Office.

Does not the Home Secretary realise that the Answer he has given is not the answer to my Question? Would it not be reasonable, logical, politically expedient and academically correct, as well as just, to allow Sir Roger Casement's literary remains to follow his mortal remains to Eire? Is not the administration of the Home Office, which has refused to do this over many years, a disgraceful example? Will my right hon. and learned Friend change it?

The answer to the first part of the question is that I think that my Answer was the answer to the Question. The answer to the second part of the question is that it raises a completely new issue outside the scope of the Question. The answer to the third part of the question is that the administration of the Home Office is not disgraceful.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that there are also diaries of Sir Roger Casement in the Dublin National Library and that I have obtained photostat copies of these diaries from there? Will he consider giving Irish students the same opportunity of getting photostat copies of the entries in the British diaries? Is he aware that in the Irish diaries there are no indecencies at all and that the only indecencies are those which were a long time in the possession of Scotland Yard and the Home Office?

The answer to the first question is that I was not aware that my hon. Friend had obtained photostat copies of the diaries to which he referred. The answer to the second part of the question is that applications from responsible persons made to the Home Office are each considered on their merits and, when it is possible to grant them, they are certainly granted, as it is desired that a legitimate and proper study should be made of these diaries. The answer to the third part of the question is that I was not aware that there were any indecencies in the copy my hon. Friend has, because I have not studied it.

Are not most of the scholars and historians who would like to examine these diaries Irish, and would it not, therefore, be more convenient if they were located in Dublin?

The answer to the first part of the question is that only some of the persons who made the applications were citizens of the Irish Republic. Others were not, and the balance of convenience in that aspect of the matter is therefore in doubt.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that the use of radar traps, when the equipment is operated by a single policeman, can give misleading readings if not expertly operated; and if he will take steps to bar the use of this equipment in those circumstances.

My right hon. and learned Friend is satisfied that adequate instruction is give to police officers as to the location and use of radar speed meters, and that it would be contrary to practice for a case to be brought to court if there was doubt as to the identification of the vehicle under observation. It is for the courts to assess the adequacy of the evidence in cases brought before them.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in a recent case a police officer stated in court that he was an experienced radar operator—"seven years, no other qualification"—but that he went on later to admit that when he was trained he had the "usual half-hour's training at headquarters", presumably, seven years ago? Would not the hon. Gentleman admit that this was apparently his total qualification for calling himself a qualified radar operator? Does not the hon. Gentleman know that there are radar instruments in existence—I have here a brochure—which are made abroad and which identify the car by photographing it while at the same time identifying the speed by photographing the speed counter on the radar instrument, so completely obviating the risk of error by a policeman? Is he not——

Order. I think that we had better find out if the hon. Gentleman is "aware" as far as we have got.

I am aware of that document and I have a very good answer for it—to a later Question. As for the officer having had half-an-hour's training, I do not know the case. I should think that it was not in Wales or in the Metropolitan area. I should he glad to receive details from the hon. Gentleman and I will certainly look into them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will introduce legislation to lay additional duties on traffic wardens or traffic controllers, with a view to allowing the police forces more time to deal with the prevention of crime.

On 17th May I made the Functions of Traffic Wardens Order, 1965, extending the functions of traffic wardens to include the control and regulation of moving traffic. The Order will come into force on 1st June next, when some 1,200 traffic wardens employed in 36 police areas in England and Wales will, subject to their being suitably trained, be available for these duties in aid of the police. It is my hope that these numbers will increase substantially in the near future.

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for that encouraging reply and for the action which the Government have taken. I hope that he will look at this question because in the magistrates' courts of this country a great deal of the time of the police is wasted through their having to attend court to deal with offences. As has been suggested, if the traffic wardens can regulate and control traffic, this will release police to deal with other duties.

I thank my hon. Friend for what he has said. I entirely agree with him and will most certainly keep the problem of traffic wardens under close review.

Can the Home Secretary say what action he is taking about the representations made by the Civil Service union concerning the power of traffic wardens under this Order?

I have said that I will give attention to this matter. However, the question of what powers traffic wardens should have is governed by the 1960 Act which limits them to some extent, but, broadly speaking, it would be useful if they were entrusted with such functions as do not require specialised training which only police officers have.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that, although the introduction of traffic wardens was originally regarded as a controversial experiment, they have proved their worth and that the limited extension of their duties which he proposes will be generally welcomed?

I accept in principle the introduction of traffic wardens for the very sensible purpose set out in the Question. It is important, however, that they should have proper powers and should be properly trained. I hope that the Home Office will not make a complete botch of this advance.

I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that we will try not to make a complete botch of it, or indeed any botch of it. It is important that we should ensure that the traffic wardens are employed on those things which it is appropriate they should undertake with proper training. Nevertheless, there are functions which must rest with fully trained police officers, which have an important public relations aspect and which people who have not the full experience and full range of training of police officers cannot be expected safely to undertake.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans he has for providing work of a more worthwhile nature for prisoners in local prisons.

The efficiency of prison industries is being improved to attract more and better work from other Government Departments and private firms. Progress with the prison building programme is making more workshop space available for the organisation of industries on modern lines. Efforts are being made to expand work outside prisons. Detailed plans, based on a pilot study which was recently completed of a typical local prison, are to be made for the provision of work suitable for all types of prisoners.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Would she agree that even the most industrious man, given a sufficiently lengthy period of imprisonment, will lose the will to work, and that it is vitally important if he is to be rehabilitated that he must have every opportunity of doing worth-while work while serving his sentence?

I fully agree with everything that my hon. Friend has said. I set very great store by the provision of work for prisoners, but I would remind my hon. Friend, as I said in the Answer, that it is not just a matter of the provision of work from outside prison for prisoners to do. Space in some of our older local prisons is sadly lacking.

Can the hon. Lady say what is the average number of hours worked per week in local prisons?

Not without notice, but it has considerably increased over the last few years. Quite a number of prisoners are working between 40 and 50 hours a week. Women prisoners seem to work far longer hours than men prisoners because there is no shortage of work for them.

Would my hon. Friend say what the attitude of the trade unions is to this matter? They have often been abused in the past as being restrictive, and this has not been true. What is my hon. Friend's experience?

Years ago there were some difficulties, but today there are no difficulties at all. The T.U.C. has representatives on a committee which advises my right hon. and learned Friend about work for prisoners, and representative trade unions sit on similar committees in the localities.

Would the hon. Lady consider giving higher pay for such worthwhile work so that money can be put aside to benefit the prisoner when he leaves the prison and possibly to compensate his victim?

That is being considered as a result of the report which the working party made some time ago. Until we can provide adequate work in all prisons, it might be unfair to prisoners to introduce such a scheme prematurely because the amount earned would depend, not on the prisoner's skill, but on the work available for him in the prison.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will issue guidance to local authorities on the danger involved in sending to a remand home a child whose only offence has been that of truancy.

Local authorities have been reminded by my Department that they should consider other possibilities before having recourse to a remand home for the temporary accommodation of children in care. I do not think there is need for further general guidance, but I am writing to my hon. Friend about a case which he has brought to my attention.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. May I also thank her and the Department for the considerable amount of care which they took over this case? Is she satisfied that local authorities are trying to segregate these girls, particularly the younger ones, from the older girls who have been earning a living on the streets?

If it comes to our notice that girls of this kind are put with the more innocent type of girl, we certainly take steps, through our inspectors, to draw the attention of the local authority to it. That has been done in the case of the remand home which my hon. Friend has in mind. I emphasise that local authorities are responsible for the provision and running of remand homes.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will give figures showing the working of the education programme now in operation in Her Majesty's prisons, indicating the number and nature of prisoners dealt with in this way and the effects on them.

All inmates of borstals and detention centres attend educational classes. In prisons attendance is voluntary, and some 8,500 prisoners out of 24,000 elect to attend. About 500 take correspondence courses and a few attend further education institutes outside prisons. About 300 prisoners and 300 inmates of borstals and detention centres attend classes for the illiterate or semiliterate. In addition, about 3,500 receive physical education. The effects of education cannot be precisely evaluated, but there is no doubt of its importance in the training of prisoners.

I thank my hon. Friend for that Answer. Does the programme referred to in my Question include training in spiritual, moral and social duties to the community in which we live, and has it had any effect on reducing juvenile delinquency, in particular?

I am sure that inside prisons and borstals there is the kind of training to which my hon. and learned Friend refers. But I cannot say that training in prisons and borstals would have any effect on juvenile delinquency since by the time people get to borstals and prisons they have passed the stage of juvenile delinquency.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what proposals he has for increasing the number of child care officers by means of an increase in training facilities.

As I said in my reply on 13th May to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham, East (Mr. Mapp), courses of professional training, which produced 187 qualified child care officers in 1964, are being expanded to an estimated output of 235 in 1965, 300 in 1966 and 400 in 1967.

I am sure that we are all grateful for that increase, but would not the hon. Lady agree that those figures fall fairly far short of what she and I and many other people would agree are required? First, can she say what money is being spent on publicity to get new entrants into this service? Secondly, is she satisfied with the salary structure of this service in so far as it attracts men, who are more likely to stay in it than girl trainees?

As the hon. Member knows, the salary structure is a matter for the negotiating machinery. I am anxious that many more people shall be attracted to the child care service, because, looking ahead, particularly concerning the preventive measures, we shall need many more. There are, however, competing demands and a great many social workers are needed in a great many services, and it will be necessary for us to look to the training of more social workers in general.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the great backlog—for example, 550 to March last year and towards 400 in the current year—as a result of neglected opportunities in the past? Will she ensure that the specialised agencies via the universities and similar bodies are able to meet the expanded programme which she has mind?

We are already doing that with regard to the universities and the institutes of training. We are anxious to get as many child care officers as we can. I know that there is a backlog to make up and we are doing everything we can to deal with it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) whether the Metropolitan Police are equipped to use non-lethal gas in an emergency;

Arrangements are being made to supply police forces in case of need with limited amounts of non-toxic tear smoke, which causes temporary incapacity but has no permanent harmful effects, for use in dealing with armed criminals or violently insane persons in buildings from which they cannot be dislodged without danger of loss of life. The tear smoke would not be used in any other circumstances.

Can my right hon. and learned Friend give a little closer indication of the sort of circumstances in which this gas might be used so that it does not affect innocent and non-participating persons?

There might be the case of a violent lunatic who had barricaded himself in a house, possibly holding as hostage a member of the public, in circumstances in which it was quite impossible to approach the house or lay hands upon the lunatic without the lives of police officers and, possibly, bystanders being endangered through the lunatic or armed criminal firing shots at the approaching police officer or at persons within range. It is that sort of situation in which it is thought that much the best thing is to use a harmless tear gas which could not hurt anybody in the vicinity and would do no lasting harm to the lunatic or criminal.

What would be the long-term effect of such gas upon an innocent person who was caught in the fumes?

The answer is, none.

Is the Home Secretary aware that the House and, I believe, the country will appreciate that this facility is being made available to the police and that we believe that this is the right course to take?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the average weekly number of debtors in prison for the last available year.

It is estimated that during 1964 an average of about 159 persons committed by county courts and about 330 civil process prisoners committed by magistrates' courts were in custody at any one time.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps are being taken to institute legal proceedings against members of the British Nazi Party, the British National Party, the Greater Britain Movement and the Nazi International who have participated in the daubing of synagogues, the desecration of Jewish cemeteries, and the fly-posting of Fascist and racialist leaflets on property in parts of London and other cities, the names and description of which have been passed to the Chief Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police by the hon. Member for Willesden, East and copies of which have been submitted to the Minister.

The police institute proceedings in suitable cases where adequate evidence is available in time to enable action to be taken. But in this case the documents were supplied by my hon. Friend after the expiration of the statutory time limit for the institution of proceedings.

That may be so, but may I ask my hon. Friend to bear closely in mind that not only is this situation persisting in London and in other cities, but that it is getting worse? Will he bear in mind that synagogues are being burnt out, shop windows are being smashed and people are being attacked and beaten up by the thugs belonging to these kinds of organisations and that there is growing concern in certain localities in London and elsewhere that the situation is out of control by the local authorities?

I know that the whole House views with contempt the activities of people who desecrate religious places. The evidence available to me from the Metropolitan Police is that there is not a greater number of offences committed against synagogues than against other places of divine worship. There is no evidence of a marked intensification of Fascist and Nazi activity in our land at the present time. That is the information which is at my disposal. Last year, the police proceeded against 18 Fascists and in the first quarter this year, it is true, they have proceded against 12.

Does the list of detestable activities given in the Question include any which will become offences under the Race Relations Bill but which are not offences at the present time?

The Question deals with offences at the present time—in the main, the daubing of walls and billposting. These are summary offences that can be proceeded with only if the evidence is presented within six months.

Has my hon. Friend seen leaflets which have been sent to every hon. Member which are calculated to cause a breach of the peace? Are we to understand that we have to wait for a breach of the peace before action is taken? For example, if I am attacked by one of these persons and punch him on the jaw, as I am likely to do, despite my venerable age, am I to understand that only on such an occasion will action be taken against some Nazi—or will it be taken against me?

My right hon. Friend has drawn attention to a most offensive leaflet which right hon. and hon. Members have received. [HON. MEMBERS: "Not all of them."] Perhaps there has been selective posting. This is a serious matter. I want my right hon. Friend and the House to know that my right hon. and learned Friend and all of us in the Home Office take this matter seriously, and I believe that the Metropolitan Police take it seriously also. We will keep a very close watch. I assure my right hon. Friend that I will look further into the matter of the leaflet to which he has drawn attention.

Mr. George Mackie. Question No. 17.

On a point of order. I do not want to delay Question Time, Mr. Speaker, but as these letters which hon. Members have received threaten them with violence if they support the Race Relations Bill and state that they will be brought to trial by these people, and so on, for this crime, does not this constitute some kind of offence against this House?

If the hon. Member likes to make a complaint of breach of Privilege, I will consider it in due course, but not now.

I should like to do that, Mr. Speaker.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department to what extent the pensions of police officers, injured in the execution of their duty and compelled to retire prematurely, are affected by the system of averaging recommended by the Oaksey Committee as against the system under the Desborough scheme which was in operation before 1949.

Where a police officer retires prematurely, the extent to which a pension based on his average pay during his last three years of service would be less than a pension calculated on his actual rate of pay at the time of retirement, would vary according to the officer's length of service, the nature of any recent changes in pay scales and the interval between any such changes and the date of the officer's retirement.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there are a very large number of anomalies in police pensions, particularly about disability, and that an officer who is injured—I have a case in mind—to 100 per cent. disability through injuries received when tackling a housebreaker would have received almost twice the size of pension if he had been injured in an accident covered by the Industrial Injuries Act? This sort of thing has a very grave effect on recruiting. My constituency is an area from which the Metropolitan Police are recruited. I know of several cases, and the whole question requires looking into.

There are, unfortunately, anomalies in most pensions schemes and I have no doubt that there are anomalies in this one, but the Royal Commission on the Police, in its interim Report submitted in 1960, made no recommendation that the Regulations to which we work should be changed in relation to injury on duty awards.

Surely the hon. Gentleman can recognise injustice and try to put it right, whatever was recommended in a report five years old? Will he take note of that?

Obviously, I will give the utmost consideration to what the hon. Gentleman has said, because we are all mindful of our obligations to police officers injured on duty. I can go no further than say that it will be looked into very carefully by myself.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department why he will not seek to repeal that part of the Police Act, 1964, which provides for the inclusion of nominated representatives of magistrates to watch committees; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department why he will not seek to amend the Police Act, 1964, in relation to representation on watch committees; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that there is concern about the representation of magistrates on watch committees permitted by the Police Act, 1964; why he will not introduce amending legislation; and if he will not put this part of the Measure into force.

The arguments against the inclusion of magistrates on watch committees were fully discussed during the proceedings on the Police Bill, and as Parliament has so recently expressed its intentions in the matter, I am sure that it is now right to give the Act a fair trial.

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for that reply, but I wonder whether, in view of the continued representations made by many local authorities, and the concern of very many people throughout the country about the way this is influencing the formation of watch committees, he will in the near future reconsider and make a further statement?

I do not think that I can add to what I have said. I can at the moment hold out no hope of legislation on this matter.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that both sides of Liverpool City Council have unanimously expressed great concern on this question and have repeatedly asked that this matter be reconsidered? In view of the statements made by the Home Secretary himself when he was in opposition, when he put the case most cogently against the Bill, could not this be considered again, remembering that this Measure was introduced by the Conservative Party?

I still, in general, hold to the views which I expressed in the course of the discussions on the Police Bill when it was in Committee. The arguments, however, are not all one way; there are considerations on the other side; and, indeed, the Police Act follows the recommendations of the Royal Commission. At the beginning of the year I received representations from the Association of Municipal Corporations and from others and I expressed to it the view I am now putting before the House, that it would be best for the Act to have a chance, to see how it works out. In any event, I am not in a position to hold out any hope of amending legislation at this stage.

Mr. Gregory.

On a point of order. I have a Question which has been answered with this group. May I not ask a supplementary?

I am not accusing the hon. Member of any kind of malpractice. It is merely that it is still desirable to maintain the rule which I announced to the House about late Questions, and there is today a need to get on. Mr. Gregory.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has received the report and recommendations of the working parties on the carriage by road of highly inflammable, explosive, toxic and corrosive substances; when he will introduce legislation for the clear marking of tankers and vehicles as to the nature of the load; if he will advise fire services of the correct action in the event of accident or spillage; and if he will make a statement.

I am sorry that this Answer is a little long. I will read it quickly.

A working party on the marking of road tank vehicles drafted a voluntary scheme of marking, but the introduction of such a scheme was deferred pending the outcome of international negotiations on this and related matters. Certain other committees, including the Working Party on Inflammable Substances, have also from time to time considered problems concerned with dangerous substances. There is no prospect of international agreement on the carriage by road of dangerous substances before next year and in order to avoid further delay, as well as to co-ordinate the various activities to which I have just referred, my right hon. and learned Friend has suggested to the local authority associations and other interested bodies that the Working Party on Inflammable Substances should be reconstituted as the Standing Advisory Committee on Dangerous Substances. The new Committee would advise my right hon. and learned Friend on all questions, falling within his sphere of responsibility, which relate to the control of dangerous substances in the interests of the safety of the public, and he will ask it to examine urgently how best to extend the scope of existing regulations on the carriage of dangerous substances by road.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make arrangements for more Ministers, in addition to those from the Board of Trade, to go overseas on trade promotion visits.

Such visits will be arranged whenever the circumstances justify them.

is the Prime Minister aware that there is a growing feeling that some of the senior Ministers who ought to be going abroad to help the export drive are in fact detained in this country due to voting in this House? In view of the small margin of the Government, would it not be better to give one party or the other a sensible majority so that it can properly govern and get on with the job, if we had a General Election?

I always wonder what sort of laboured supplementary we shall get from the hon. Gentleman—[HON. MEMBERS: "It was a very good one."] If he is interested in the export trade, as I thought he was, from his original Question, the position is, of course, that a very large number of senior Ministers have gone abroad and will continue to go abroad on negotiations and on trade promoting visits. When, for example, I was in North America last month, in addition to the other jobs I went to do, I spent a very long time with the importers of British goods there, discussing their problems and British exports to the United States. Wherever this is possible we shall do this.

While recognising the necessity that Ministers have to go abroad on occasions, may I ask the Prime Minister whether he does not agree that the Opposition have been reasonable in facilitating most of those visits, and is it not, therefore, unfortunate that a senior Minister should give a quite different version to the British public? Could he not ask his colleagues to be fairer?

I think there was an awful lot of confusion about who returned from abroad and who did not at that particular time. I am not sure if I have a pair myself yet for a very important visit to Vienna on European economic co-operation next Monday. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will help.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that even when Ministers are in this country there is an important job of promoting trade to be done, and would the right hon. Gentleman investigate why it is that the President of the Board of Trade, who was in this House yesterday, found that he was unable to keep a long-standing engagement to address the Canadian Chamber of Commerce?

Yes, there was a reason, a very good personal reason, which I do not want to advertise, but which I will be happy to discuss with the hon. Gentleman if he wants me to.

asked the Prime Minister which Minister is responsible for the release of Service land for house-building and other purposes.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in one notable case it took the Army 10 years to decide to give land back to civilian use? Will he ask my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to use a lot more speed than right hon. Members on the other side of the House used when they were in office?

Yes, and I am sure he will. Of course, the rehousing programme in Woolwich, which my hon. Friend has in mind, is an enormous one, and there are quite a lot of details to be settled, particularly in relation to the Greater London Council, and it will not be possible immediately to work out all the details, but so far as Service control of land is concerned, I am sure that my right hon. Friend will do what he says.

Would my hon. Friend institute an inquiry into the various offices about the sale of public land for development? Much of this land is ripe for development, and it would be a bit of a scandal if public land were handed over to private developers who could proceed to make fortunes by reselling it.

This has been a problem in recent years. Some changes in the law a few years ago make it more difficult for local authorities to get land within their areas for important developments. This is a question which will come up when we come to the Land Commission Bill. I can assure my right hon. Friend that the point he has in mind will be looked after then.

Could my right hon. Friend say whether any calculation has been made of the extent of the land owned by the Service Departments which can be developed for housing? Could he give an indication of the amount which was released by the Departments in each of the last two or three years, for example?

I should want notice to give my hon. Friend the figures, but a good deal has certainly been done, and done recently, in releasing Service land in the centres of towns for housing and other purposes. Of course, a good deal of land held by Service Departments in the more remote areas would not be relevant to the housing situation.

asked the Prime Minister what forms of financial aid have been given by Her Majesty's Government representatives in France, India and Malta to British subjects resident there over 60 years of age in the last financial year.

Monthly relief payments were made to 176 British subjects resident in France and to one British subject resident in India. Most of these beneficiaries were over 60 years of age, but precise information is not readily available. No financial aid was given to elderly British residents in Malta.

Could the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether that in any way compares with the amount of public assistance which could be given, if it is decided to do so, to British residents of great age in those parts of the world?

I am not quite sure what the hon. Member has in mind. It would not be possible for the National Assistance Board to operate overseas: it has no statutory or other powers to do so. Traditionally, it has been the duty of the Foreign Office and the Commonwealth Relations Department to help in cases of destitution of British subjects overseas. Traditionally, this has been done under the sums voted in the Estimates. If the hon. Member has any evidence that this is not being done on a satisfactory scale, perhaps he will let me or the Ministers concerned know about it.

Is the Prime Minister satisfied that there are not many more cases than those represented by these figures? Most people think that there is a considerable amount of tragic poverty among elderly British subjects abroad which is not dealt with. Will he assure us that it is not shortage of funds which prevents more being done?

One of the things done by consular officers and by the officers of the Commonwealth Relations Department is to help to repatriate British citizens who are in the acutely strained circumstances to which the hon. Member has referred. Where this is not possible, relief is made available. I have no evidence that there are a number of others who are not getting relief, but I am sure that if hon. Gentlemen know of any cases, they could be looked into. It is not shortage of funds which prevents the relief of destitution or the provision of help to bring them home. But the amounts which can be paid—the amounts—must be limited. I am not aware that people are kept out of the scheme because we have no money for them.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will institute an inquiry to investigate the rôle of standing committees which advise Her Majesty's Government on various aspects of policy, with particular reference to the fact that many of the committees report confidentially to Ministers; and whether he will make a statement.

No, Sir.

Would the Prime Minister have another look at this? Does he recollect that over 240 of these committees have grown up during the last 60 years or so and that over half report confidentially to Ministers? Is he satisfied that all these committees are still necessary? Would he not agree that there may be some threat to free and open Government in this large number of unpublished reports?

I think that the last time the hon. Member raised this, I gave him the figure of 251 committees. That was the up-to-date figure at that time. I believe that every case must be looked at on its merits. I do not think that we can have a committee to inquire into committees; that would simply be a proliferation of work. It must be the duty of the Government and the Departments concerned to decide in which cases it is desirable to publish—whenever it is possible, we hope to do so—and in which cases the reports should be confidential. Many committees, which were in operation under the last Government and the Governments before them, quite obviously could not do their work if the reports had to be published.

Is there available anywhere a list of these committees? Would the Prime Minister consider publishing one?

I will certainly consider that. I think that there must be, because to have the number of the committees suggests that someone has a list of them. I shall certainly consider that point. If the right hon. and learned Gentleman, who created some of these committees himself, would like to put a Question down, I will see what can be done about answering it.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Prime Minister what effect the recent changes made in the aircraft industry will have on the restoration of the external and internal balance of the economy.

They will provide substantial savings in defence expenditure for the next decade and thus release high-quality productive resources for civil work to the benefit of the balance of payments and the domestic rate of economic growth.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, because of the cancellations, our aircraft industry has suffered a severe loss of prestige and many of our top aeronautical design staff have given up in disgust or gone abroad? Is he aware that a high proportion of the increase in taxation which is being raised this year will now have to be spent in the United States to buy American aircraft, and that, because of the cancellations, these will not be paid for by increased exports?

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman obviously did not get into the two censure debates on this matter, or we could have had that speech then—and it would have been as inaccurate then as it is now. The threat to the aircraft industry has not been caused by the cancellation of projects which have turned out to be too late to be of service to the Armed Services, and then have escalated too much in cost. The threat to the industry was the over-deployment of that industry on the wrong projects for political reasons.

Can the Prime Minister tell us whether the French Government are aware of this decline in the confidence in our aircraft industry, when they have just agreed to three more co-operative projects?

It would not seem so. On that point, all the warnings of hon. Gentlemen opposite and the attempts of some Front Benchers opposite to stir up trouble with the French about Concord have proved to be completely wrong.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible.

asked the Prime Minister when he proposes to visit India.

I have accepted invitations in principle to visit India, Pakistan and Malaysia, but no firm dates have yet been fixed.

Is the Prime Minister aware that, after his visits to Washington, Bonn, Paris and Rome, his visit to New Delhi will be greatly welcomed as a sign that Britain under a Labour Government has a vital rôle to play in peace-keeping in the Far East?

Hear, hear.

When the noise has subsided, I think that the whole House will feel that Britain has a very important rôle to play, not only in the peace-keeping operations there, but also—as in the recent critical situation on the Indo-Pakistan borders—as a mediator to help to avoid serious difficulties between Commonwealth countries. As my hon. Friend realises, in advance of the visit which I hope to pay to these countries, we shall have the opportunity of a conference of Commonwealth Prime Ministers.

Can the Prime Minister say how Mr. Kosygin's visit will be fitted into the pattern of visits? Is it still on?

I am not sure how this arises out of the Question about India, but we are still in touch with the Soviet Government, both about the visit of the Soviet Prime Minister to this country and about my own visit to the Soviet Union. I am sorry to say that I never saw similar enthusiasm on the part of the right hon. Gentleman for visits of this importance when he was in office.

Perhaps the Prime Minister will allow me to remind him that I signed the Test Ban Treaty in Moscow.

Yes, the right hon. Gentleman had one visit to Moscow, when all the work had been done—[HON. MEMBERS: "Cheap."] It had been initialled before he went. So far as active talks with the Soviet Union were concerned, I do not remember that the right hon. Gentleman, either as Foreign Secretary or as Prime Minister, did very much to bridge the gap by personal visits of that character.

Is the Prime Minister aware that it would be far better for him to stay at home and deal with the serious labour situation than to go abroad?

Hon. Gentlemen opposite had better make up their minds where they want—[Interruption.]—I know that they are always very anxious to see me here at Question Time. I have seen that they spend half their time telling the Press what a rough time they are going to give me at Question Time. I have not noticed it yet.

Before the right hon. Gentleman goes to India will he get in touch with the High Commissioner and ask him for a list of British subjects who might be suffering from the complaints about which I was talking earlier?

Yes, Sir, and, as I said, if the hon. Gentleman will give me a list of any other names of people he knows who are being neglected I will be glad to look into them.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that he has been less than fair to the Leader of the Opposition? Is he aware that when the Leader of the Opposition went to Moscow he made two excellent speeches—the most wonderful speeches he had made in his life—in which he asked, "Why should we quarrel with the Russians?"?