asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he is satisfied that the amenities of the South Wales coast lines are adequately safeguarded by the existing arrangements for disposal of sewage and trade effluent; and if he will make a statement.

The maritime authorities in South Wales are continuously improving the sewage disposal arrangements. Since the war they have spent over £2·5 million on schemes involving new or improved outfalls, and they are now considering further schemes estimated to cost about £14 million. The authorities have in general shown themselves fully alive to their responsibilities for avoiding nuisance and my right hon. Friend is continuing to watch the position closely.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this little departure from the crawl of the past is welcomed, but is not the swamping of the beaches by sewage filth due to the vexatious delays between the evolving of schemes and the execution of the treatment of sewerage?

If my hon. Friend has any particular case in mind in the Bristol Channel, I shall be glad to look at it to see what progress can be made. I shall certainly do that.

With a view to making improvements, will the hon. Gentleman consider some of the sewage schemes which exist in foreign countries?

Every factor will be borne in mind by the authorities that deal with it, and I am prepared to call their attention to anything that is relevant.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects to receive the report from the Welsh Planning Board on communications in Wales.

My right hon. Friend expects to receive a report on this subject before the end of July.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask whether the report will cover the desperate need for improvements in road communications in the industrial valley areas of South Wales.

I am well aware of my hon. Friend's keen interest in this important matter, but, as he knows, the Heads of the Valleys Road Scheme is now nearing completion and my right hon. Friend is very anxious to consider other road improvements which will link the North with this system and the South with the coastal system.

Is the Welsh Planning Board also considering the urgent necessity of improving communications between North and South Wales? As the hon. Gentleman knows, it is very difficult to go from one part to the other. The road journey takes a long time. Is progress being made on the North-South Wales trunk road?

The original Question related to communications in Wales, and that, of course, includes communications between North and South Wales. That aspect of the matter will certainly not be neglected.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if the Welsh Planning Board will undertake a study of the industrial future of North Wales.

Yes, Sir. As my hon. Friend is aware the Welsh Planning Board has already submitted to my right hon. Friend a report on the problems of Mid-Wales and it is at present engaged on a study of South Wales. My right hon. Friend is most anxious that the Planning Board should examine the problems of North Wales as soon as possible.

I thank my hon. Friend for that valuable reply, but may I ask whether the industrial estates of North Wales will be considered as part of this structure?

Certainly. Industrial estates are of some importance in the Wrexham and Deeside areas, and there are one or two similar estates in other parts of North Wales. The proposed study will definitely include an appraisal of the position and prospects of such areas.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when the results of the origin and destination survey carried out on the B.4275 road linking Mountain Ash and Aberdare will be announced.

The survey was carried out by the local highway authority, the Glamorgan County Council, which has communicated with the Aberdare Urban District Council about the matter.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but is he aware that some time has elapsed since the taking of this survey and that in the meantime the traffic has considerably increased? Will he convey the urgency of this matter to the highway authorities, particularly in view of the traffic bottleneck in Aberdare?

I can assure my hon. Friend that I will make the necessary inquiries on the lines that he suggests.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects a start to be made on the proposed new trunk road Cardiff Merthyr East/West Link Road north of Abercynon.

This link road would be a classified road and its construction is a matter to be settled in the first place between the two local highway authorities, the Glamorgan County Council and the Merthyr Tydfil County Borough Council, who are now in consultation with the Welsh Office about the project.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the residents in this area have suffered considerable inconvenience for a number of years and that the Ministry of Transport has suggested to highway authorities that an immediate solution could be brought about by the creation of a small link by-pass which would form part of the major scheme? Will he bring this matter to the attention of the highway authorities?

My hon. Friend will appreciate that this is a matter entirely for the authorities, but if we can spur the matter on we shall do so.

Can my hon. Friend say whether there is any prospect of these two authorities being merged into one and thus simplifying the process?

That is quite another matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales why the investigations of the new town consultants have been limited to the area between Caersws and the English border.

I have asked the consultants to consider this area in the first place because, on the advice of the Welsh Planning Board, an up-to-date urban centre developed here would be well placed in relation to other parts of Mid-Wales, including other towns where the Development Commissioners are accelerating the provision of small factories, and because of the road and rail facilities which already exist along the Severn Valley.

Is the Secretary of State aware that it is a widely held view that if there is a new town in the area the further west it is the better? If it is in the eastern part of mid-Wales it will inevitably draw population from the west and will add to the depopulation of the rural areas.

My anxiety is to see that the first new town in Mid-Wales is so placed as to be able to attract industry and workers there, including some of the 100,000 Welshmen who left Wales to seek work in the Midlands conurbation. If this is done and is a success its influence will extend to other parts of Wales.

We would not all agree with the attitude of the right hon. Gentleman towards the idea of a new town in Central Wales, but if there is to be such a town, can he tell us whether the present investigations by the consultants are limited to Montgomeryshire, or whether this is merely the first step and that he may go elsewhere?

It is not limited. I have asked them in the first place to look at the Severn Valley because this seems to me to be the most appropriate place.

May we take it from that reply that the Secretary of State intends, immediately after they have made the first report, to ask them to make a second report—to investigate a second area?

When I have received their first report I shall consider it, and I hope that we shall then be able to make a final decision.

On a point of order. You will have noticed, Mr. Speaker, that Questions Nos. 8 and 12, in the name of the same hon. Member, are in identical terms, which clearly indicates what is true, namely, that the people of Wales are waiting for some information about this report.

I cannot contrive the latter point because it is not within my care. With regard to the other point, I am afraid that all it indicates is that the point was missed.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what subjects the Council for Wales has been asked to examine and report upon this year.

I understand that the Council hopes to submit two reports to my right hon. Friend fairly soon, one on road development and the other on forestry. A third report, dealing with the provision made for the arts in Wales, is also expected to be ready this year. These subjects were selected for examination by the Council, as indeed it has discretion to do.

Would it be a good idea to have an examination of the structure of technical education in Wales and to have a report by the Council for Wales?

It will not be possible to ask the Council to undertake any further studies, since the Council has handed over its economic and technical work to the new Welsh Economic Council. It is now being considered whether another advisory council may be necessary to take over the Council's cultural work. In that sense I am afraid that I must say "No" to my hon. Friend's suggestion.

Can my hon. Friend say whether, in that report, there is any reference to the possibility of the construction of a clearway from the North-West into South Wales? I believe that this would lead to fuller use being made of the South Wales ports.

I am sure that all the relevant factors which might contribute towards a solution of the problem of road communications are being studied by the Council, but I will look into the specific point which my hon. Friend has raised.

Has the Council for Wales been asked to consider industrial relations, especially with regard to the use of the Welsh language in industry and particularly with regard to the recent incident in Blaenau Festiniog? Has it been asked to report on that matter? Will it be asked to consider the position in the future?

The Council for Wales has not been asked to consider that point, but I understand the hon. Member's interest and anxiety about it—which all Welsh Members share.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will now make a statement about the future of the Council for Wales.

The completion of its present studies will bring to an end the Council's distinguished work over many years. Its work in the economic field will be taken over by the new Welsh Economic Council and when I have studied the report which the Council for Wales will be making on the provision for the arts in Wales, I shall consider what body would be appropriate to carry on the work in this field.

As the Council obviously, therefore, will be dissolved in due course, will my right hon. Friend consider an all-Wales body which would be more representative than the Welsh Economic Council?

This is a matter, of course, of local government reorganisation. As my hon. Friend knows, this is something which is now receiving our attention.

Some of us will regret that the Council is coming to the end of its time. In view of the great work which it has done and the good advice which it has given to a number of Ministers and Governments over the years, could we take this opportunity of placing on record our good thanks and gratitude for what it has done?

I share the hon. Member's view. I met the Council for Wales in order that I could personally offer not only my own thanks but the thanks of the whole House for the work which it has been doing over the years.

Could we also put on record that the previous Government never adopted any suggestions of the Council?

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what estimate he has made of the number of houses which will be built in Wales this year; and how this figures compares with the average annual output in the last 10 years.

On the basis of the number of houses completed during the first five months of this year, it is estimated that about 20,000 will be completed this year. This compares with 18,969 last year, and an average annual number of completions over the last ten years of 13,184.

Is my hon. Friend aware that hon. Members on this side of the House very much welcome the increase, which is equal to 60 per cent. over the average record of the previous Administration? Does he realise that the Tories in Wales so neglected housing that over the ten years from 1954 the loss of housing production in Wales was the equivalent of a complete standstill in the building industry in Wales for one year and ten months?

I appreciate what my hon. Friend has said.

I do not accept the figures produced by the hon. Member for Swansea, West (Mr. Alan Williams). Will the hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that plans for housing in Wales will not be held up by the present unfortunate shortage of cement which is prevalent in other areas in the border counties?

I can assure the hon. Member that we shall do all we can. I cannot prophesy what the position will be next year, but as I understand it, it is proceeding satisfactorily at the moment.

In relation to the construction of houses by local authorities, will my hon. Friend convey to his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State the importance of the retention of housing concessionary subsidies in respect of any future proposals for changes in subsidies?

I shall certainly draw attention to that aspect of the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether the Welsh Planning Board, in the study they are making of the industrial prospects of South Wales, will give consideration to the towns and valleys of Carmarthenshire.

The largely industrial south-eastern part of Carmarthenshire comprising the coastal towns from Llanelly to Kidwelly and the industrial areas to the north of them are included in the Planning Board's present study of the prospects of industrial South Wales. The rest of Carmarthenshire will be the subject of a separate study.

As there is little or no prospect of work in many of these parts of Carmarthenshire, will my right hon. Friend expedite the studies, otherwise these places will become shadow towns and valleys?

I share my hon. Friend's concern about this part of South-West Wales, which both of us know so well. The Report on the industrial part of South Wales, including industrial parts of Carmarthenshire, I expect to receive before the end of July. There will follow a study of the rural areas, including those of Carmarthenshire, which I hope to receive before the end of the year.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what progress is being made in establishing the new business schools at the universities of London and Manchester.

Both schools have leased temporary pre- mises which are now being adapted and equipped. Staff are being recruited and planning is at an advanced stage. The first full-time course at Manchester will begin next September. In London it is hoped to hold some part-time courses this autumn, and full-time courses should start in February next.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that progress so far has been due largely to the initiative of the previous Government? Would he say whether he is satisfied now with the progress which is being made and also whether he considers that any particular encouragement should be given to industry and business to make use of the facilities which are now beginning to become available for them?

I do not think that the question of these two notable business schools is quite a matter for party political points across the Floor of the House. Very rapid progress is being made. I do not think that special encouragement is required at the moment. Indeed, I am very encouraged by the fact that in one case full-time courses are starting in September and, in the other, in February. That seems to me to be a considerable rate of progress, whichever Government is responsible.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that both the McMeeking Report a few years ago and the Report this year of the A.T.T.I. have drawn attention to the terrible wastage of business talent in this country because of the inadequacy of business training during the previous Administration?

Yes, Sir.

How many chairs are unfilled? How many have been filled in both establishments? Is there adequate co-ordination with the Minister of Technology, and to what extent is his or other Ministries responsible?

As far as staff is concerned, the London School, as the hon. Member no doubt knows, has appointed its director. The Manchester School is waiting to appoint one now and will do so as soon as it finds a suitable candidate. Both schools have advertised for their first instalment of staff and are immediately engaged in interviewing candidates. It is too early to give the figures. I am satisfied that liaison between the schools and the Ministry of Technology and the Government generally will be close and sufficient.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, in the next financial year, he will permit local education authorities with direct labour ground maintenance staffs which are not fully employed in the winter months to undertake site and playing field improvement schemes, off the ration, up to £2,000 on any one item.

No, Sir.

Is the hon. Member aware that there is a widespread feeling amongst local education authorities that the whole of the mini-minor works allocation off ration should be restored to them? Is he also aware that this highlights a specific example, whereby there is a real danger of redundancy amongst ground maintenance staffs which are fully employed in the summer but unable to perform any of the off-ration works and will be short of work in the winter months.

Of course, I am aware and have been made very well aware of the way in which local authorities value the mini-minor allocation, but I have explained several times in the House that this had to be removed in the sense that allowance had to be made for it out of minor works as a whole. This reduced the amount for allocation. This principle applies to any concession, however small, and it would have to be allowed for from the total minor works allocation. It is a call on resources and therefore reduces the amount avavilable for other urgent works.

Because this does not add further burdens or make any definite demands on the resources of the building industry, would the hon. Gentleman reconsider this? It is a very modest proposal to relax this restriction a little.

I have been studying very carefully in recent months various possibilities of relaxing restrictions. The difficulty is that any kind of work like this makes a demand on resources. If it is a modest piece of work, it is a modest demand, but it is still a demand. To free it in this way, to reduce the total allocation in this way, would create unfairness between one authority and another. All authorities have a great deal of work to do under this heading.

While appreciating the difficulties in this matter, could I ask whether the hon. Member could suggest what should be done with ground maintenance staff in the winter if they are not fully employed on maintenance?

I am advised that many authorities organise their labour force in such a way that they are fully employed in the winter. One of the difficulties with the suggestion is that this would create a new distinction between those authorities who organise a labour force in one way and those who do so in another. This would be resented by those which did not benefit from it.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science why some pupils in Leicestershire Education Authority schools have to complete their general certificate of education examinations in holiday time; and whether he will arrange for all examining boards in the country to bring forward their examination dates to prevent this happening.

I understand that the dates of the trade holidays for Leicester and Leicestershire were fixed after certain of the examination timetables were settled by the responsible examining authorities. In the case of some schools the dates fixed by the responsible bodies did not clash with the trade holidays, and one examining body was able to offer alternative arrangements.

I am grateful to the Minister of State for that detailed reply. Is he aware that the London University G.C.E. Examining Board is the only examining board which has not fallen into line at the moment? The result is that a large number of pupils in Leicestershire now have to take their examinations during their holidays.

I am afraid that it is too late to do anything about the examination this year, but we have had assurances that all the examining bodies which carry out examinations in Leicester or Leicestershire have now agreed that their examinations next year will be completed by the end of June. This is apart from the wider operation which I mentioned in my original reply.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what amount of the subsidy paid from public funds to the Royal Shakespeare Company, namely, £80,000 for 1964–65, was expended on the productions at Stratford-on-Avon, and what amount on the productions at the Aldwych Theatre.

This information is not available. The Arts Council grant is for the work of the Royal Shakespeare Company as a whole.

Would the hon. Lady ask Sir Fordham Flower so to prepare the accounts that this information will be available. Would she agree that, since the National Theatre receives grants to produce plays of a very wide range in London and since excellent Shakespearean productions are produced at Stratford-on-Avon, it would be wiser to give this £80,000 a year to the Royal Shakespeare Theatre for production of Shakespeare at home and on tour?

I hope that the hon. and learned Gentleman would not want either direct or indirect political direction or censorship of the Arts. The questions which he raises are for the Arts Council, and he can be assured that the assessors established by the Arts Council are looking very carefully indeed not only at the amounts granted but at how this money is spent.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what information he has as to the number of grammar schools in the South Dorset constituency which will be affected in the foreseeable future by plans for comprehensive education.

I am aware that the Dorset Local Education Authority is considering possible schemes of comprehensive education in parts of the county, but it has not made any proposals to my right. hon. Friend affecting the future of the two grammar schools in the South Dorset constituency.

May we assume that the necessary urgent building improvements to grammar schools in which Dorset people take great pride will not be held up because of any hypothetical reorganisation which might take place in future?

It is not the intention of the Government that any improvements scheduled in our programmes should be held up by reorganisation proposals.

Does that mean that the Minister does not rule out the rebuilding of grammar schools in subsequent building programmes?

My right hon. Friend will be issuing a circular to local authorities on that matter. That will be in a week or two, but I think that it would be better for the House to await that circular because this is one of the issues with which it will deal.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science in what way provision of classrooms, showers, changing room facilities and other accommodation at Swanage Grammar School falls short of the standards laid down by his Ministry.

I understand from the Dorset Authority that the teaching area of this school is 5,359 sq. ft. below the minimum standard. The school is short of six toilet fittings and six wash basins and there is no medical inspection room. The playing fields are below the minimum size laid down. No precise standards are laid down for hall, gymnasium, changing rooms, showers and storage space.

Is the Minister aware that I visited this school recently and that the conditions there fall very far short of what any reasonable parent might expect? May we hope that the Minister will give us a definite date by which the improvements will be carried out?

Improvements to and extensions of this school were included in the proposals submitted by Dorset for the 1965–68 programme but were not accepted by the former Government who then, of course, had responsibility for the matter. If in due course the improvements are submitted again, for the remainder of the 1967–68 programme, we will give the matter careful consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will introduce legislation to enable the State registration and inspection of correspondence colleges.

No, Sir. I am awaiting the submission to me of a draft scheme for the establishment of a national accrediting body for correspondence colleges, and I believe that such a development is likely to provide the best means of achieving a general improvement in the standards of correspondence education.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that Answer. Is he aware that the courses offered by many of the commercial correspondence colleges are often of a very low quality? Is he also aware that students are often exploited by tricks of salesmanship and that the purpose of these institutions is not, in fact, education but the amassing of profit? Would he not therefore agree that there can be no effective supervision by any body which is dominated by the commercial colleges themselves and that only inspection and registration by his Department will bring about the improvements which are necessary?

I am certainly aware that there is a lot that is unsatisfactory in the present situation regarding correspondence education. It was for that reason that we set up the committee which is now sitting under the chairmanship of Dr. Gurr, who was recently the Chief Education Officer for Middlesex. I believe that that was the right way to go about it, because had we chosen the alternative suggested by my hon. Friend, it would have taken a great deal longer and would have required legislation. I believe that the course we have taken is by far the quickest method of trying to cure what is unsatisfactory in the situation. As to what may come out of this, I envisage that a national accrediting committee or body will be set up, and that the chairman and at least half the members should be appointed by me so that the independent members appointed by the Secretary of State will be in the majority on that body.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what percentage of schoolchildren living in the city of Newcastle-upon-Tyne were not admitted to grammar schools when they were being considered for selective secondary education in each of the years 1960, 1962 and 1964, respectively.

Information is not available in the form requested. With permission, I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the percentages of 13 year old pupils for whom the local education authority was financially responsible, in schools of different types in 1960, 1962 and 1964, respectively.

Is my hon. Friend aware that on the basis of the previous Written Answer to me, which was of a similar type to the Answer which my hon. Friend has just given, he gave information to show that approximately only one in five of the children in the City of Newcastle are receiving the benefits of a grammar school education? Would he agree that there is no evidence to show that children in Newcastle are less intelligent than children in other cities which have a higher percentage of children attending grammar schools? Bearing this in mind, would my hon. Friend support the actions of the L.E.A. in doing away with this outmoded system of the 11-plus segregation which is undermining the educational potential of children in that city?

To answer the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, the information in the Answer which I will circulate will be in similar terms to the Answer to the previous Question to which my hon. Friend referred. My only difficulty was that the wording of the two Questions were slightly different. To answer his general point, I of course accept that children in Newcastle-upon-Tyne should be regarded as intelligent on average as children elsewhere. The difference between the number of children who are getting a grammar school education in different parts of the country is one of the examples of the absurdity of segregating children at the age of 11.

In view of the criticism just now of the omission of a Dorset school from the building programme, is the Minister of State aware that the previous Administration approved two very large secondary schools for Newcastle in the 1963–64 and 1965–66 programmes, worth more than £½ million each, which will enormously increase the chance of children in Newcastle getting a secondary course leading to G.C.E.?

The previous Government approved a number of building improvements, but not nearly enough in terms of the general needs of the country.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, in view of the teaching shortage, he will encourage local authorities who face difficulties in filling specific vacancies to make direct approaches to retired teachers with a view to their recruitment.

Local education authorities generally, and particularly those in shortage areas, already seek to retain the services of suitable teachers after their retirement. This practice has my full support.

While admitting that this is really a very narrow Question, would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that it would be desirable to have more push in this direction, not only to take account of teachers who are just retiring but also of teachers who have retired for three or four years and who might be susceptible to such a direct approach, which might enable them to fill, say, a particular science vacancy? Would the Minister not agree that an approach of this sort might help to mitigate the problem?

I will consider the question whether any additional push on our part would be helpful. In general, local authorities are now fully seized of the seriousness of the teacher shortage problem. A great deal of pushing has been done by my Department in recent months and I am sure that the great majority of authorities now know the serious position they have on their hands.

Would it not encourage more teachers to return to the profession after their retirement if my right hon. Friend paid them, on their return, the pension which they have already earned for teaching?

The question of full pay, pensions and so on was raised in the debate on 30th April, when I said, as I have said on other occasions, that I have a great deal of sympathy with the teachers' case here. The trouble is that one cannot consider teachers in isolation. This matter raises the whole question of public service pensioners and it becomes a major question covering many Departments besides my own, ultimately becoming a matter for the Treasury.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will take steps to make regional colleges independent of local education authorities.

No, Sir. As my hon. Friend knows, it is the policy of the Government to develop regional and other leading technical colleges as part of the public sector of higher education alongside the universities. I believe that this can be done most effectively within the local education authority system under arrangements providing for proper academic freedom.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that in many cases regional colleges cover a much wider area than typical local education authorities, some of them indeed having international reputations and that so often L.E.As are too parochial to govern an institution of that nature?

We are doing the preparatory work and are about to set up a study group on the whole question of advanced work, in particular in the regional colleges and the whole technical college sphere, as well as to consider whether any changes are needed in the general structure. I hope that the point made by my hon. Friend will come within that general review.

Would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that it really could not make sense to treat regional colleges differently from area colleges, which also do a considerable volume of full-time higher education? Would he not further agree that one gets a little fed up with a great deal of comment in the Press and elsewhere suggesting that no higher educational institution can be of national standing if it remains within the ambit of a local education authority? Would the Minister not agree that this is not true and make it plain that such views are not held by the overwhelming majority of hon. Members on either side of this House?

I agree most strongly with the latter point made by the right hon. Gentleman. Anybody who has had the pleasure, as I have had in recent months, of going around and looking at both the technical colleges and colleges of education must get the incredibly strong impression of the enormous vigour, energy and experience which local authorities have put into the higher education system. Like the right hon. Gentleman, I feel strongly that it is not only important that we have a considerable sector of higher education under local control but that local authorities should maintain a considerable stake in higher education.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what further guidance he will give to local education authorities on the representation of staff on governing bodies.

Questions of the internal government of technical colleges will be covered in the consultations which I am going to have with the national representative bodies about the future pattern of advanced work in the further education system. Arrangements for the government of colleges of education are being reviewed by a study group which I recently set up.

In the 20th century is it not appropriate that institutions of higher education like colleges of education and technical colleges where advanced work goes on ought to be as democratic and self-governing as universities?

I am entirely in favour of adopting the best practice which is most suitable for the mid-20th century, but I should not like to go into more detail at the moment, if my hon. Friend will forgive me, because in the case of colleges of education a study group is already at work, and in the case of technical colleges I hope that one will be at work by the autumn.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether there is an exchange of information between the Air Pollution Research Unit and similar research units in other countries; what harmful substances have been identified in air pollution by research workers in this and other countries; and what research has been carried out into the effect of all those harmful substances by this country.

There is very close contact and frequent exchange of information between the Air Pollution Research Unit of the Medical Research Council and other national and international agencies in this field. A great many substances, a few of which are potentially harmful to human beings, have been identified in air pollution and their relevance to human health is kept under constant scrutiny and examination.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that the evidence to date shows that the rate of lung cancer is greater in the metropolitan areas than in rural areas even where the rate of smoking per adult may be the same or greater in the rural area? Does it not show that air pollution must play a very prominent part in the development of lung cancer, and is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that the amount of research now carried on is sufficient?

I am quite certain that this is a matter very much in the minds of the authorities concerned. I agree with the general tenor of the hon. Member's supplementary question, but as yet no direct relationship has been shown. We shall continue to give support to such research.

What are the relations of the Department and other authorities responsible for administering the existing rules and regulations? Is it not patently obvious that there is much unnecessary pollution because many lorries—and indeed cars—are so neglectfully maintained that unnecessary pollution is caused? British Railways render the air offensive by lack of proper maintenance.

Two-thirds of that supplementary question was for the Minister of Transport, but I am happy to assure the House that there is constant and very close co-operation between all the Departments concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how much has been spent in each of the last five years on research into air pollution by the Air Pollution Research Unit of the Medical Research Council.

With permission, I will tabulate this information in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

It is a little difficult to comment until I see the figures published. May I nevertheless ask whether the amount is anything like the £1 million to be spent this year by the Tobacco Council to examine the relationship between smoking and health? If it is not so large, why not?

It is nothing like that. It has gone up from about £21,000 in 1960–61 by about 50 per cent. to £32,800 for 1964–65.

Is that not a grossly inadequate amount to spend on this important topic? Is the lack of research into this topic because it might throw up results which might be expensive to cure? Is that the reason why research is not being undertaken'?

I do not want to promise greater research on this question irresponsibly, but whether or not the amount was inadequate, it was the programme authorised by the previous Administration.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received concerning the omission of Dover from the programme of building for the South-East Kent Technical College in 1966–67.

The only project in respect of Dover submitted for this Programme was for some communal accommodation and my right hon. Friend has received no representations about its omission other than those made by my hon. Friend.

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the Minister's decision was based on the priorities presented by Kent County Council and not on any decision against this proposal? Will he bear in mind that Dover has been waiting for a long time?

Yes, I can confirm that Dover was lower down the list of building projects and I shall bear this in mind in future programmes.

asked the Prime Minister what proposals he has for disengagement in Europe.

I have nothing to add to the Answers which I gave to Questions on 11th March and which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs gave on 3rd May.

Does that mean that there has been no progress at all over this question of disengagement in Europe? If so, does the Prime Minister recall his election hopes expressed to the electorate about disengagement? Does this not amount to the fact that those hopes were held out without proper consultation and proper consideration?

The hon. Member may have forgotten the very long exchanges we had on this at Question time on 9th February in which I stated our policy. This was the basis on which I spoke in Germany on my visit, both to the German Government and to the German Press. We hope to make further progress on this matter as part of proposals for arms control in that area. We have not changed our policy at all on this matter, but the hon. Member must realise, as I am sure all hon. Members do, the great difficulties especially before the German election.

Clearly this is a very difficult matter. Can the Prime Minister say whether the Minister for Disarmament is following up the plan for placing observers in the N.A.T.O. and Warsaw Pact areas, which always seemed the most likely preliminary to some thinning out of forces on either side?

Yes, indeed, he has and we hope to go further on the matter of arms control and some agreed withdrawal on both sides of the Iron Curtain of conventional troops, quite apart from the nuclear situation. I think the whole House would want to see progress made on this. Equally, the House recognises the enormous difficulties, including that of giving some reassurance to Germany.

In the very cordial atmosphere which followed Her Majesty's visit to West Germany, would it not be possible to approach the West Germans to see if we can agree with them proposals for some modification of the tension on the East-West frontier in Europe which we can then put before our allies?

I said in the House once, as I said in Bonn, and I am sure we all agree, that any progress towards German reunification and many of the other things to which the Germans attach so much importance, as we do, must depend on a detente in Europe. This requires the greatest co-operation of all States. Even at some risk, as it may be, to get that detente arms control and disengagement are all part of such a policy.

Will my right hon. Friend seeks the views of the East and West German Governments, together with the Polish, Czech and Hungarian Governments, to seek eventually a European conference on the question of disengagement when the political climate is perhaps more appropriate than it is now?

The Foreign Secretary has visited Czechoslovakia and had many discussions with the Czechoslovakian and Polish Governments on this question. As far as the East Germans are concerned, this is obviously not going to be done without agreement with the Soviet Government and I think we can assume that the Soviet Government will be—shall I put it this way?—well aware of the views of the East Germans on this matter.

asked the Prime Minister if he will give details of the dispositions has made to keep himself informed about security risks.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer I gave on 18th May to a similar Question by the hon. Member for Chigwell (Mr. Biggs-Davison).

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that although many of us on this side of the House have nothing against the Paymaster-General [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—except perhaps that he is not very good at answering Parliamentary Questions—nevertheless we feel that his status and responsibility in this field is not very clear to the House of Commons and that Parliament is entitled to know where exactly responsibility lies and to what extent? The Prime Minister himself has delegated his authority in this very important field.

I have delegated no authority in this important field. I have made it clear to the House on a number of occasions that a Prime Minister must not be put in the position of not being informed of everything going on in this field. I have taken steps to ensure that I shall be fully informed. I did not notice in the Question anything about my right hon. Friend the Paymaster-General, who is better at knowing the answers to the questions than some hon. Members are at knowing the questions to the answers. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will join in the tribute paid by Mr. Macmillan to my right hon. Friend for all he did in the field of security in some very difficult issues two years ago.

Quite apart from the view that some of us hold about the Paymaster-General, does not the Prime Minister realise that when a party Minister meddles in security matters this is bound to raise anxieties in the country? Even if the Prime Minister has residual responsibility in this matter, many of us are not content that there should be a party Minister, and this Minister in particular, with the responsibility for security.

I thought that for a very long time in our constitutional history all Ministers have in fact been members of parties. While I am not myself concerned about the interest hon. Members take in my right hon. Friend, which seems a matter more for a psychiatrist than for any other kind of professional, I should have thought that we would all agree that in the past there have been occasions when there was a feeling that the Prime Minister was not kept sufficiently in touch with security matters, and this is what we want to put right.

asked the Prime Minister what machinery for co-ordination exists between Government Departments on Her Majesty's Government's policy with regard to the steel industry.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer I gave on 15th June to a similar Question by the hon. Member for South Angus (Mr. Bruce-Gardyne).

Does the Prime Minister feel that the machinery for co-ordination between the Minister of Power and the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs worked well on the night of the steel debate? Can he tell the House, following that sordid bargain, which policy the Government have adopted towards steel, or is the First Secretary still listening to his hon. Friends?

I do sympathise with the hon. Gentleman. There are so many questions on the Order Paper about the Paymaster-General and other subjects that every Question which is put down to me now is about six weeks out of date, including this Question of the hon. Gentleman's. I am perfectly satisfied with the machinery for coordination. If the hon. Gentleman wants to know the policy of the Government on this matter, if he is in any doubt, I will send him a copy of the statement that I made the Wednesday following the debate to which the hon. Gentleman referred.

If the policy of the Government is clear, could the Prime Minister tell us whether his promise to the House made on 18th March that the House would be invited to pass the Steel Bill into law this Session still holds good?

In the words of the lady at the Hammersmith Palais de Danse, I say to the right hon. Gentleman, "Do you come here often?" [Laughter.] It is very nice to see the right hon. Gentleman. On his question, I think that the position that the House now has to face, with the pretty fair knowledge that we are not likely to be able to introduce much new legislation between now and July—[HON. MEMBERS: "Ah."]—is that the House will have to consider its convenience in the matter, as to what part of the summer it intends to sit into. I can imagine that right hon. and hon. Gentlemen will not want to sit on 12th August, but we are prepared to receive representations. Then we shall have to decide whether our convenience is best served by extending the Session in order to get this and other necessary legislation through, or whether we should make a clean start with an early new Session. This is a matter we have to consider between us.

Is the Prime Minister aware that at Question Time even the Prime Minister is expected occasionally to answer questions? This one is in absolutely specific terms. On 18th March, and to great applause from his side of the House, he gave an undertaking that Parliament would be asked to pass the Steel Bill into law this session. Now, "Yes" or "No"—does that pledge hold?

I have said—

Answer.

—that it all depends on how long right hon. and hon. Gentlemen are prepared to sit.

"Yes" or "No"?

I know how disappointed the right hon. Gentleman is at being left behind by his right hon. Friend. I can promise him that he will not be disappointed in having this Bill early enough for him to show how he can shine.

rose—

"Yes" or "No" we must get some more Questions done.

asked the Prime Minister what representations he has received asking for the introduction of legislation to make it illegal for criminals to make money by selling their stories to the Press.

None, Sir, but, as I have made plain on previous occasions, the Government thoroughly deprecate this practice.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the publication, for instance, of the Bossard memoirs by papers such as the Sunday Telegraph and the Daily Express appeared to show more concern for circulation than for the national interest? Does not my right hon. Friend think that this deplorable practice should have been referred to the Press Council?

I thought that it was the Daily Sketch, myself. In past years hon. Members on both sides of the House have deprecated the fact that those who have been found guilty of a criminal offence can then make large sums of money for themselves by selling their memoirs. I am sure that my hon. Friend is right: this is a matter for the Press Council. Proprietors generally have expressed their abhorrence of this practice, and I am sure that the House would do well to leave these matters in the hands of the Press Council which, I think, is perfectly capable of dealing with this practice.

Is the Prime Minister aware that some people, including former Members of the House, have produced most interesting reminiscences about their experiences in prison? Would he not agree that it would be an unwarrantable interference with freedom to prevent or discourage those reminiscences from being published, since they sometimes give information about the prison system which could not otherwise be obtained?

I am well aware that hon. Members opposite are rather disturbed by the revelations of the former Postmaster-General, but I was not aware that anyone yet regarded him, in the wording used in the Question, as a criminal.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that not all of us share the confidence that he has just expressed in the Press Council's ability and intention to take action in this matter?

Yes, Sir, but I think that we must leave this to the Press Council. I think that it would be wrong for us to try to legislate in this matter. I think that the Press Council is well aware of the feeling of the House.