asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources what increase or decrease in staff there was in the Department under his control in the period 16th October, 1964, to 15th October, 1965; and what increase or decrease he anticipates in the period up to 15th April, 1966.

The Department was not set up until 21st October 1964. The staff numbered 277 on 16th October, 1965, and I expect there will be an increase of 78 by 15th April, 1966. These figures include the staffs of the National Parks Commission and the Water Resources Board.

Can the Minister give any reason for this increase of nearly 30 per cent. in the next six months?

Yes, Sir. This is largely due to the work that will be required in the setting up of the Land Commission, the work of the National Parks Commission and the Water Resources Board.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources whether he will set up a central advisory committee to assist in co-ordinating the process of commons registration.

No, Sir. I do not think that this is necessary. I have from the outset been in close touch with the various bodies affected; and I shall keep in touch with them while registration is going on. These arrangements are working smoothly and effectively.

Would it not be helpful to have even an informal group of advisers, consisting of those most expert in this matter, in order to collate the experience and knowledge of procedures that have already been reached?

As I have said, I do not think that it is necessary at the moment. One awaits the report of the Nuffield Trust inquiry, and one can look again at this matter in the light of that report.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources when he proposes to make a statement on the future of national parks and the preservation of the countryside.

With the agreement of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales, I propose to give an indication of the lines on which the Government are thinking to the Conference on the Countryside in 1970, which is meeting later this month. We can then take account of the results of the Conference, and of the informal consultations which have been opened with representatives of the local authorities, before submitting proposals of Parliament.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural. Resources what will be the relevant date or dates in his proposed legislation after which transactions in land will be subject to liability to a levy, and which will render the land concerned subject to the possibility of subsequent compulsory purchase by the proposed Land Commission.

The Bill will provide for a day to be fixed by Order, after which liability for levy will arise on transactions in land and the Commission will be able to exercise its powers of compulsory purchase. I expect this to be towards the end of next year.

But will the right hon. Gentleman make it clear, as the White Paper certainly does not, whether, when that liability arises—as I understand it, on the day which he intends to appoint—it will bite on transactions, planning permissions or sales which take place before it?

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will put down a Question on that point. He has asked for the date, and I have given it.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources what is his estimate of the annual yield of the levy of certain dealings in land foreshadowed in Command Paper 2771.

I estimate that when the scheme is fully operating, the gross yield will be about £80 million per year, on the basis of a 40 per cent. levy.

How much of that £80 million does the right hon. Gentleman estimate will be passed on to the consumers—the purchasers or lessors of houses—as a passing on of the charge?

As the right hon. Gentleman is aware, the major purpose of this levy is to relieve the burden of the high cost of building.

But is the Minister aware that, whatever the purpose may be, it is everyone's experience of taxation that it tends to be passed on to the consumer? Will he, therefore, apply his mind to my original Question as to how much of this revenue he thinks he will get will, in fact, be paid ultimately by those who buy, let or rent houses?

We have made it quite clear that we intend to relieve, as set out in the White Paper, by means of concessionary disposals for housing and by lifting the burden on the local authorities.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources what right of appeal or arbitration he proposes to set up for local or public authorities, housing associations or individuals against the sale price or ground rent demanded by the Land Commission on sale to such bodies or individuals.

None, Sir.

That is a rather surprising reply. Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise that the Land Commission in these circumstances will be in a position in which it could literally hold to ransom not only private individuals, but local authorities and other authorities? Is it not necessary that some kind of right of appeal or arbitration such as I have suggested in the Question should be provided? Will the hon. Gentleman look at this again?

My right hon. Friend is always prepared to look at anything again, but the hon. Member, with his great experience in these matters, knows that the price is adjudicated on by the district valuer, and in the light of very considerable experience, not only of transactions in recent years but under the 1947 Act, we find that no difficulty has been experienced and do not expect any difficulty now.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources whether he will make a statement on his appointment of members of the reconstituted Forestry Commission.

The appointment of Mr. L. A. W. Jenkins to be Chairman of the re-organised Forestry Commission was announced during the Commons Debate on the Seventh Report from the Estimates Committee on 14th June.

I welcome the emphasis on the Forestry Commission as a timber seller in the new set-up, but can the Minister say whether it is intended to pay a salary, or take powers to pay a salary, to part-time members of the Commission?

We have no such present intention. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to make representations on this subject I will, of course, consider them.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources whether he will seek to extend leasehold enfranchisement to include new towns.

My right hon. Friend will be presenting the Government's proposals about leasehold in due course.

When he does so, will the Minister take into account the very strong desires of people moving into new towns to own their houses? Now that the Minister is responsible for leasehold enfranchisement, will he over-ride the queasiness of his right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government and be prepared to use all his energy to ensure that leasehold enfranchisement is extended as widely as possible?

We certainly know the hon. Member's interest in this question and it is one which will not be overlooked by my right hon. Friend in presenting his proposals.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources if he will provide an arbitration tribunal in the event of disagreement between the Duchies of Cornwall or Lancaster and the Land Commission on the sum to be paid in lieu of levy.

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend foresees no need for this.

Can the hon. Gentleman say why there is going to be no need for this? Is it not quite feasible and likely that there will be severe wrangles between the highly respectable bodies mentioned in the Question and this rather ridiculous Commission?

May I remind the hon. Member that a similar situation might have arisen in connection with development charge in 1947 but no difficulty was experienced between the bodies mentioned in the Question and the Government of that time. We do not anticipate any difficulty now. It is inconceivable that there should be the sort of difficulty which the hon. Member suggests.

Will my hon. Friend try to curb the desire on the part of the Opposition to provide more jobs for the legal boys?

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources what criteria will be employed for deciding if an area of land is suitable for development, and when the time is opportune; and by what body or bodies the decision will be made.

Local planning authorities or the Ministers responsible for town and country planning will decide whether land is suitable for development on the same criteria as they do at present.

I find that very difficult to understand. Will the Minister please try to reconcile that with paragraph 17 of the White Paper by which apparently land is to be acquired in anticipation of requirements? What sort of procedure is to be adopted for that? Is the White Paper actually a mask for wholesale nationalisation of land?

Perhaps without impertinence I may ask the hon. Member to reread paragraph 17 of the White Paper. There is nothing there which suggests that the normal procedure for deciding planning permission and bringing forward plans for development is changed. The position is as it was.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources if he will state his reasons for exempting local authorities from payment of the development levy on comprehensive development and town development.

Increases in value realised by schemes of comprehensive development and town development are created almost entirely by the activities of the local authority itself and the benefits should therefore accrue directly to the local community.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that in fact if a public body were to sell any land no levy would be raised on it if it were sold to private interests?

That is another question.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources if he will state his reasons for exempting Crown interests in land from payment of the development levy.

The levy would be in effect a payment by the Exchequer to itself, and the extra work would not be justified.

Is it not a fact that Crown properties do in fact pay a form of rate?

That is another question.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources after what period of time the rate of levy on development value described in Command Paper No. 2771 will be raised from 40 per cent. to 45 per cent., and to 50 per cent.; and what figure he proposes to fix as a maximum.

Decisions on all these questions will be taken at the appropriate time, in the circumstances then prevailing.

When "the appropriate time" comes, will the Minister consider the difficulty which will occur if these periods are too close together? For example, suppose a man is asked to treat and decides that he would prefer compulsory purchase procedure to take place. That usually takes a considerable time. What would happen supposing the intervals were put too close together and thereby a man was penalised because he exercised his democratic rights of going to compulsory purchase?

That supplementary question was too long.

As the White Paper says, they will be reasonably short intervals.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources under what circumstances developers owning land with planning permission for purposes other than housing on 22nd September, 1965, or being under a contract to purchase on that date, will be liable to pay a levy.

Where, after the appointed day, the developer starts development, or disposes of the land without doing so, and the value when he starts, or the price which he receives, exceeds what he paid for the land.

Will the Minister explain how he is to allocate these various funds? How does he propose to separate, for instance, the question of value of land for shops and for houses?

I should have thought that what I have said was quite plain to the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources if the staff of the Land Commission will include architects and surveyors.

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the Land Commission will have whatever professional staff is necessary for its functions.

Will the hon. Gentleman say from where he is to get this professional staff in view of the chaos in the industry at the moment due to licensing proposals?

The hon. Member is well aware of the situation which has existed for some considerable time in relation to professional bodies, and no doubt he has made sound suggestions to put it right. Where there is a shortage of skilled staff it is essential that they should be wisely and properly used in bodies of this character.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources if the Land Commission will build houses for sale on land acquired by it by compulsory purchase; how extensive these activities will be; and if the Commission will contract with private enterprise building firms.

The Land Commission will be able, with the consent of Ministers, to provide houses for sale on concessionary terms where such bodies as housing associations, co-operative groups or local authorities are not available to meet this need. The extent of the Commission's activities in this field cannot therefore be forecast at present, but in so far as the Commission does build houses for sale, it will not be debarred from contracting with private firms where that is the most efficient method.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that, if the State is to trade, the principle of a willing seller and a willing buyer will be broached by compulsory purchase and, if the State is to speculate, there will be widespread anxiety in the country? We on this side of the House will want to look at this matter very seriously.

The information which has so far reached me is rather in the opposite direction.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources by what means he intends local authorities to benefit financially from the operations of the proposed Land Commission.

As the White Paper indicates, it is the intention of the Government to ensure that the gain to the Exchequer from the operations of the Land Commission will in one way or another be reflected in the new arrangements under which local authorities will receive financial assistance from the Government. I must therefore ask the hon. Gentleman to await the announcement by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government of the results of the review of local government finance.

Has the Minister made any speculation yet as to what extent such a reduction will affect council house rents?

Of course I have considered these matters, but the hon. Member will realise that we have to await the statement which will be made on local government finance.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources what powers of entry will be given to the proposed Land Commission in respect of the leases granted for 999 years; and what provisions will be made for future comprehensive development in the light of the length of such leases.

The Land Commission will be empowered to buy out the remainder of the lease by agreement or, if necessary, by a compulsory purchase order.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary say that if the freehold is allowed to be acquired by the local authority and if the land is not maintained by the local authority the Government will insist that the freehold shall pass to the subsequent developer?

I think I ought to have notice of that question rather than answer off the cuff.

asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources what estimate he has made of the number of professional valuers required to perform the duties outlined in Command Paper No. 2771; and what steps he proposes to take to secure their services.

Any valuations required will be the responsibility of the Valuation Office of the Inland Revenue, but my right hon. Friend is confident that they will be able to manage.

Is not the Joint Parliamentary Secretary aware that the Valuation Office of the Inland Revenue is already very short of valuers and that this year they have had a lot of additional duties put on them? Will he give the House an assurance that he will not introduce this levy until such time as he is satisfied that there are a sufficient number of people properly to assess the quantum, bearing in mind that in certain cases there is no appeal against the quantum?

My right hon. Friend is aware that there will be a burden on the Valuation Office, but the amount of valuation work in our scheme is to be kept to a minimum. For example, actual market prices will be used as far as possible. So far we have no indications to suggest that the Valuation Office will not be able to deal with these matters.

Does the Joint Parliamentary Secretary's refusal to answer the Question as to how many valuers will be required mean either that he does not know or that he will not tell us?

The precise number of valuers required at this stage is certainly not known, but a general estimate has been made and it was in the light of that that I gave my Answer. I shall not seek to deny the House any information that I have.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works why the lowest tender for the erection of a Customs hut at Mullan, Fermanagh, Northern Ireland, was not accepted.

I am not bound to accept the lowest tender; and there are other reasons besides price for accepting a tender.

Can the Minister give us an assurance that one of the reasons why the lowest tender was turned down was not that the contractor happened to be a Roman Catholic? As so many curious things happen in Northern Ireland, will my right hon. Friend assure us that in future contracts there will be no discrimination against Roman Catholic contractors?

I have no reason to assume that there has been, but I have written to my hon. Friend about this and would still be prepared to discuss it with him.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what increase or decrease in staff there was in the department under his control in the period 16th October, 1964 to 15th October, 1965; and what increase or decrease he anticipates in the period up to 15th April, 1966.

A decrease by about 850 between October, 1964 and October, 1965. I am not yet able to forecast the change up to April, 1966.

Can the Minister tell the House why this disappointing reply reveals his inability—[HON. MEMBERS: "Reading."]—to reduce his staff by the 2,000 which he forecast six months ago?

The hon. Gentleman is not satisfied with anything. In April, 1965, I said that I hoped to reduce the staff by 2,000, but since then my Ministry has had to cope with an increasing load of work, both at home and overseas. This work can be done either by contract or by direct labour, and we have used rather more direct labour than I expected. The level of the industrial staff tends to fluctuate and is affected by seasonal changes. However, we have done rather better than our predecessors.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what has been the total cost to date to public funds of the naval base of Holy Loch.

None, Sir.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works if he has yet formulated any proposals to provide additional accommodation for the improvement of working conditions for Lobby and Gallery correspondents.

As the hon. Member will have observed, building is going on in Star Court. When this is completed and an allocation of rooms made, we will be in a better position to consider accommodation for correspondents.

Has the Minister any hope of improving on this?

This is really not a matter for me. The House, I believe, proposes to set up a special Committee. It will not be done strictly under my Department. The Committee of the House will make its own allocation.

Will the Minister press ahead as hard as he can on this question? Will he bear in mind that the new Second Reading Committee may impose an additional strain on the Gallery calling for extra staff in already woefully overcrowded conditions?

Yes, but I am conscious of the increasing strain that is continually borne by Members and I must keep my priorities right.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works if he will state the cost of the pest control treatment of the outside fabric of the Palace of Westminster, the estimated time during which such treatment will remain effective, and the reason for such treatment.

Treatment cost £900 and will last three years. The hon. Member must be the only Member of the House who does not appreciate the reason for it.

Where have all the pigeons gone? If the right hon. Gentleman succeeds in banishing them from London, is he not afraid that action may be taken by Mary Poppins?

I can only say this: I expected another supplementary question. I thought that the hon. and learned Gentleman was concerned about cruelty to dumb animals. I can only tell him that I am advised that the pigeons get a sort of neurosis. It does not harm the pigeons, but I am told that the birds are repelled by a sense of insecurity on landing.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what is the reason for the delay in completion of the second part of the roof scheme over the Lords end of the Palace of Westminster.

There has been no delay, except for the allocation of the Fees Office.

Can the Minister tell us when this accommodation will be available for the use of hon. Members?

It will be ready for occupation at the beginning of December.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works when he expects to complete the Star Court building; and what provisional allocation of new space has been made.

By the end of next year. The allocation is a matter presumably for the proposed new House of Commons Services Committee.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works who is occupying Admiralty House; and what has been the cost of alterations thereto.

No one, Sir. I answered a smiliar Question on 10th and 17th May.

What are the Government's plans for Admiralty House?

I have already stated those in answer to a previous Question, but the allocation is not a matter for me.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what staff he anticipates will be necessary to deal with the forthcoming building licences proposals; and where they will be accommodated.

Only about a dozen staff.

With regard to these doctrinaire proposals, how many licences does the Minister think his staff will be able to issue in a day and how long will it be before the fact of refusal is known and an appeal can be made?

If the hon. Gentleman has read the Order Paper he will know that I am to answer Questions about that later.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works, in view of the fact that three months have elapsed since the announcement of the introduction of building licences, whether he will make interim arrangements to give provisional licences for developments urgently required in order to overcome the uncertainties of architects, builders and builders' suppliers.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works if he is aware that many urgent building projects are in jeopardy because their sponsors do not know whether a building licence will be granted; and if he will make a statement on the policy he intends to pursue in granting licences.

In advance of the Bill I am prepared to consider applications for permission to start a limited number of projects that are extremely urgent and essential. I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT details of the form which these applications should take.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his announcement will give a great deal of relief to the building industry, particularly in the North-East, where we have a great deal of development which it is generally recognised is urgent? Would he accept that since the announcement of the building licence proposal there has been enormous confusion in the building industry, with even a laying-off of some architectural staff?

I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman should have referred to the North-East because he should be aware that that is one of the excepted regions, to which, of course, this does not apply.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his Answer—and I, too, welcome this very much—I am sure that all hon. Members and—

Order. The hon. Lady must ask a question.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that hon. Members and people outside support him in everything he is doing to get building going and to get our building priorities right?

Will the document which the right hon. Gentleman said he would distribute contain some indication of the class of case which he is likely to consider favourably, and will he circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT?

The right hon. Gentleman could not have heard me. I said that it is being circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT. It is rather too long to get by this Mr. Speaker. I will only say at this stage that what has to be proved is that these sorts of thing are matters of extreme urgency. That is the only qualification I can give at this stage.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works how the economic measures of 27th July will affect, for the period 1965 to 1970, the expansion in the production of building materials and components, investment by contractors in plant and equipment and on recruitment and training of manpower of all types.

The measures announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 27th July, 1965, do not alter the objectives set out in the National Plan. All sections of the construction industry recognise the need for expansion and investment to meet those objectives.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the industry concerned has found very little encouragement in anything the Government have done so far? Is his right hon. Friend prepared to come to the Dispatch Box and say that no threat exists to the building construction industry and that the Government have set their face resolutely against stop-go, because that is what the Minister said on 20th November of last year?

We have given the building industry the confidence in its future expansion—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—it needs to make long-term plans for reinvestment in plant and equipment and for the recruitment and training of manpower.

How has it happened that we have gone so quickly from the severe shortage in the brick industry which existed earlier this year to the conditions of surplus which apparently obtain now?

There is another Question on the Order Paper which I will answer on that matter, but the stock of bricks now is still less than it was in September, 1963.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works (1) whether he is satisfied that the building restrictions which he is now imposing will not result in a surplus of building materials; and if he will make a statement;

Yes, Sir.

Is it not a rather disgraceful situation that the Minister begged the brickmakers last year to increase production while at the same time, as a Minister and as a responsible member of the Government, he creates conditions in the industry which result in a lack of confidence as expressed in the National Plan and causes a surplus of bricks in the industry and a larger stock than has existed at any time for many years past?

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what plans he has for the reopening of the Kensington Gardens Tea House during 1966.

In view of the improved facilities which have been provided in Hyde Park, my right hon. Friend is considering whether the expense of reopening and refurbishing Kensington Gardens Tea House is justifiable.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware of the desire of the public for more accommodation, and would he very carefully consider reopening it, if only for the summer months next year?

We are considering a report from Forte's, which has the catering concession in Hyde Park and Kensington Gardens for both of these establishments, as to whether this is justified or not. Plans are in hand for the equipping of several new kiosks in Kensington Gardens and Hyde Park.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works why he asked the brick companies to increase 1965 brick production by 8 per cent. over that of 1964.

Because brick stocks were almost non-existent when my right hon. Friend assumed office.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that his right hon. Friend wrote to me saying that when they fixed the brick target the Government could not have foreseen the economic crisis? If the Government could not have foreseen the economic crisis, why did they make such a row about the Tory inheritance, and will they now eat their words?

No, Sir. This year brick production will meet the anticipated demand and stocks will again reach the normal level.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if she is aware that sickness payments are made on certificates issued by non-qualified persons at nature cute establishments; and what steps she will take to deal with this.

Sickness benefit is paid for incapacity for work and it is for the independent statutory authorities to decide whether a particular claimant satisfies this requirement. Where a claimant submits a certificate which has not been issued by a registered medical practitioner, these authorities are usually provided with a sick visitor's report and may themselves require the claimant to be medically examined by a regional medical officer of the appropriate health department. My right hon. Friend sees no reason for change.

Does not the Joint Parliamentary Secretary think that these certificates ought to be issued only by medical practitioners, and would he say what the B.M.A. has to say about this?

I know nothing about the B.M.A.'s attitude. The determining authority takes its decision in the light of all the evidence made available to it or for which it has asked. The medical certificate is only part of that evidence.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if she will seek to include within the provisions of the National Insurance Act a person temporarily employed by parents in a private house.

Such a person is already within the scope of the National Insurance scheme as a non-employed person and should contribute accordingly. In certain cases where the employment is for the purposes of a trade or business, contributions proper to those of an employed person may be payable.

While being aware of that, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to give favourable and sympathetic consideration to the occasional case which is very genuine where a person has been employed in her own home—and I have given him details of one case—for very good reasons indeed? Will he not look again at this whole matter possibly with a view to bending the Regulations just a little?

It is, I am afraid, impossible to bend the Regulations. Indeed, it was as a consequence of the 1958 Amendment Regulation that the constituent whose case the hon. Gentleman mentioned, and for whom he has shown considerable concern, was eliminated from the classification of employed persons.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether she will review the regulation by which sickness benefit is automatically stopped in the case of mentally disabled persons who earn more than 40s. a week.

No, Sir. Sickness benefit is paid for incapacity for work. The earnings of 40s. which are referred to are merely a practical measure of the amount of therapeutic work a person may be allowed to do and still be treated as incapable of work for sickness benefit purposes.

Is the Joint Parliamentary Secretary aware that the National Insurance Advisory Committee, in proposing this limitation in 1960, at the same time recommended that the limit should be reviewed if there were evidence of a substantial change in the pattern of employment of such cases? If I send the hon. Gentleman evidence to show that there has been such a substantial change, at any rate in the Oxford region, will he consider it?

Yes, Sir. I will be glad to look into any evidence which the hon. Gentleman sends to me on this matter.

asked the Minister of Health if he will set up an independent inquiry into the pay and conditions of work of student nurses.

I see no need for this.

Does my right hon. Friend's Answer mean that he is completely satisfied with the pay and conditions of these young girls? Can he tell me which member of his Department was responsible for the remark, reported in the Daily Mirror some while ago, that these girls might have great prestige to counteract all the disadvantages of possibly low pay? Will he take steps to make certain that that kind of argument is not used to exploit these young people?

I should want notice of the last part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question about an alleged statement reported in the Press. I would only say to my hon. Friend that I am never completely satisfied, but, as he knows, pay and service conditions are matters for the Nurses and Midwives Whitley Council. As he also no doubt knows, student nurses' pay has this year been increased by between £24 and £76 per year, which is between 6 per cent. and 15½ per cent.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that an undue proportion of a student nurses's time is devoted to menial ward work; and what steps he is taking to prevent the exploitation of these nurses as a form of cheap labour.

I have no evidence of this and I do not accept the implications of the second part of the Question.

Will my right hon. Friend take steps to get evidence, because the information I have is that these girls are being exploited in this regard because it is difficult, especially in the urban areas, to get the kind of ancillary workers who are required to do this kind of work? Will my right hon. Friend take steps to get the facts and figures from the hospitals, particularly in the London area?

I shall be glad to consider any evidence which my hon. Friend can put before me. I can give him some facts and figures. The increase in the number of nursing auxiliaries and assistants which has taken place in the National Health Service between 1951 and 1964 is about 100 per cent. In the same period there has also been a 20 per cent. increase in the number of ward orderlies, domestics and other ancillary staff.

asked the Minister of Health what representations he has received about the shortage of medical staff at the Norfolk and Norwich Hospital; and whether he is aware of the strain imposed upon the staff and the difficulty of coping with patients and would-be patients thereby created.

My Department is in close touch with the East Anglian Regional Hospital Board. An additional consultant anaesthetist and three additional house surgeons have been appointed. I understand that the board is considering making further additions to the medical staff, whose number is recognised as being inadequate.

Will my hon. Friend agree that the present situation, with about 500 more patients on the waiting list, according to the figures at the end of August, than there were at this time last year, would fully support any representations which might be made to him either by the regional hospital board or by others for a further increase of staff, whose working conditions are generally accepted in the city to be intolerable?

I assure my hon. Friend that we have this in mind, and we have been in touch with the regional hospital board. We shall, of course, consider anything put to us by any regional hospital board.

asked the Minister of Health what action he has taken to meet the request of the works organisation professional and technical staff of the regional hospital boards that he should intervene to prevent the threatened breakdown of the present pay negotiations.

I understand that agreement has now been provisionally reached.

I understand that the majority must await the report of the pay research unit in the Civil Service. Will any increases both for civil servants and for regional hospital board staff be back-dated to the same date?

The position is that agreement was reached on 26th October in a small negotiating committee and it is subject to ratification by both sides. In the meantime, it would not be appropriate for me to announce the actual details of the provisional settlement.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the statement by the East Kent coroner on 14th September, 1965, during the inquest on Mrs. Capeling of Gillingham, regarding her treatment in hospital, details of which have been sent to him; and what action he proposes to take.

Yes, Sir. I am satisfied that no blame attaches either to the doctors or to the hospital authorities concerned.

In the light of the investigations which the right hon. Gentleman has carried out, will he agree that the remarks of the East Kent coroner verged on being irresponsible? Will he agree also that the standards of treatment at the particular hospital are of the highest, and that the unfortunate feature of the coroner's remarks was that they would be likely to create alarm in people having to attend the hospital for treatment? Finally, will he say whether the suggestion that people who attempt to commit suicide should be kept in hospital for 48 hours has been extended to other hospitals?

I should want notice of the last part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. I entirely agree with him about the standard of treatment at this hospital. As regards the first part of what he said, I have already written to him, and I think that I had better content myself with saying that doctors from overseas play an essential part in staffing our hospital services and we owe a great deal to them.

asked the Minister of Health if he is satisfied that hospital authorities have been following the advice they were given that where an enrolled nurse is appointed as a senior enrolled nurse and has been carrying out the duties appropriate to the new grade since 1st October, 1964, her increased pay should be back-dated to 1st October; and if he will make a statement.

I have no reason to believe that hospital authorities have not followed my advice.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the National Association of State Enrolled Nurses has had to take up with the authorities cases in which this back-dating has not been followed? I have sent him evidence of one such case and there may be many others which have not come to the association's knowledge, and there is great anxiety in the association on this subject.

I was aware of only one case in which there was some difficulty, which has now, happily, been overcome; but I should be glad to consider any evidence which the hon. Gentleman cares to submit to me.

asked the Minister of Health, following his review of the hospital programme, what extra capital allocation he will make to the Eastern Regional Hospital Board to enable adequate hospital services to be provided for the increased population resulting from the planned expansion of towns in the East Anglia region.

I am not yet able to add to the answer my hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member on 29th March.

Does the Minister realise that the present projection of capital allocations in the East Anglian board's region simply will not cover the known increase of population which has been planned by the Ministry of Housing and Local Government and the Department of Economic Affairs, and that it is absolutely essential that there be a substantial increase to enable standards to be maintained, let alone improved?

All regional hospital boards have been asked to submit their preliminary proposals to me by today. When I have studied them, I shall consider whether to vary the provisional distribution of resources as between regions. I shall bear in mind the point which the hon. Gentleman makes.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has completed his review of his policy on pay beds; and if he will make a statement.

Not yet, but I will make a statement as soon as possible.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind in the course of his consideration of the review of pay beds that according to figures issued in the Annual Report of the Ministry of Health for 1964 there was an average daily number of 5,449 Section 5 pay beds available and in the course of the year the average daily number in use was only 2,892? Is it not wrong that only 53 per cent. of the pay beds should be used, and does he not think that he should do away with these pay beds when we have a waiting list of almost half a million people?

I am certainly aware of the statistics which my hon. Friend quotes from my Department's Annual Report. I can only tell him that these were among the considerations which led me to undertake the current review.

asked the Minister of Health when he expects the building of the new general hospital in Hull to be completed.

The Leeds Regional Hospital Board hopes for completion about the end of May.

Can my hon. Friend tell me what the delay in building will mean in increased costs and whether the costs will be met, as usual, by the central fund?

I am not sure what my hon. Friend means by delay in building increasing any costs, but if he will table the Question I will look at it.

asked the Minister of Health if he will make a statement on the detailed technical survey of the existing buildings and services which was held at the Montagu Hospital, Mexborough, in 1962.

A survey was completed in 1963. By comparison with modern standards, it revealed certain deficiencies. These will be taken into account by the Sheffield Regional Hospital Board in deciding the extent of upgrading or rebuilding necessary, and the priority to be accorded to it.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many substantial alterations have taken place at the hospital over the last few years to try to improve the facilities but the facilities are still very inadequate? Does he not realise that surveys are of no use unless action is taken upon them?

I think that everyone can assume that when one is dealing with a building which was first opened in 1905 and one makes a survey of it, deficiencies are bound to be shown. [Interruption.] I see that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has just entered this Chamber; I thought that that applause could not be for me. I have no reason to believe that any of this hospital building is unsafe, but if my hon. Friend will send me any points that he has in mind I shall be glad to consider them.

asked the Minister of Health when the upgrading or the rebuilding of the Montagu Hospital, Mexborough, will be commenced.

I am not at present able to say when upgrading or rebuilding might be undertaken at this hospital.

Does my hon. Friend realise that the staff at the hospital are working under great stress and, although they are proving their worth as members of the medical fraternity, they are not able to carry out their work in the efficient manner that they would wish? Does he not further realise that unless his Department supplies more money to the Sheffield Regional Hospital Board, the new hospital, which is long overdue, will not be built in the next decade?

I am very glad that my hon. Friend paid tribute to the staff working in the hospital. As my right hon. Friend said a moment ago, hospital boards are at present reviewing their programmes and some information will soon be forthcoming. I must emphasise that each regional hospital board is responsible for the priorities in its region.

asked the Minister of Health if he will order stocks of corned beef withdrawn from sale last year to be destroyed, so as to eliminate any risk to the general public.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has reached a decision on the proposal that hitherto suspected canned meat should be re-processed and released by the firms at present holding it and sold for human consumption; and if he will make a statement.

I refer my hon. Friends to my Answer to the right hon. Member for Grantham (Mr. Godber) on 27th October.

Did that mean that Ministers acted in such a way that the corned beef was destroyed?

Two points arise here. The first concerns the tins from the establishment associated by the Committee of Inquiry with the outbreak which it looked into. Those tins have already left the country. The second point is that there are other stocks which are suspect, some held by the Government. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has indicated to the trade that we will not release our stocks. Two major importers have agreed not to release their stocks as well. There are small stocks in private hands, but I have no reason to believe that those importers or traders will act contrary to what has already been done.

In the reply to the right hon. Member for Grantham (Mr. Godber) on 27th October, my hon. Friend stated that these tins had left the country. What exactly does "left the country" mean? Did they leave by themselves, were they dumped in the river, or were they re-exported?

This is the full stock in relation to Establishment No. 1A, and, as far as I know, they were dispatched by the people who held the stocks at that time.

Is the Minister absolutely satisfied that by no means, by re-exporting, by firms holding these stocks in this country or in any other way, can they be produced for human consumption? There has been a great deal of concern about it in the City of Aberdeen. We got over the outbreak very satisfactorily, and no one wishes to be reminded of it.

I cannot give an absolute guarantee because, as I said, there are stocks in private hands at present, but I can assure the House that, if any firms indicate that they propose to process or reprocess these stocks to make them fit for human consumption, any technique of processing will have to be agreed with my Department, and they will be identifiable afterwards so that the trade and the public can be protected.

asked the Minister of Health if he has now agreed the surgery improvement grant scheme for general practitioners; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. Under the scheme, which start on 1st December, general practitioners will be eligible for a grant of one-third of the cost of approved projects for the improvement of existing surgery premises. In accordance with my earlier undertaking to the profession, any project started this year which satisfies the conditions will be considered for grant.

Does my right hon. Friend contemplate, as I do, a great measure of satisfaction throughout the general practitioner world at the announcement he has made today? He has covered the supplementary question which I had in mind about it.

asked the Minister of Health what steps Her Majesty's Government is taking to negotiate reciprocal medical agreements with the Spanish Government.

None, Sir. Spain has not the kind of health service which could provide a basis for reciprocity.

I accept my hon. Friend's remarks, but is he aware that many British visitors to Spain are being charged fantastically high medical fees and have been exploited? Is he aware that one of my constituents was forced to pay over £1,000 for something which in this country would have involved relatively negligible expense? Does he agree that something ought to be done, and, in the meantime—

Order. That is becoming too long. We will stop there.

I have knowledge of and appreciate the great problem in the case referred to by my hon. Friend, but the difficulty we face is that "medical benefit" in Spain applies only to certain limited categories of people. I understand that a person has to earn less than £300 a year, be an old-age pensioner or be in receipt of accident insurance benefit. Obviously, it is a difficult problem to get the Spanish authorities to offer to British tourists a better health service than they offer to their own people.