asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether, because projects which may require licences can take more than six months to plan, he will keep developers and their architects and surveyors informed, though without commitment, about the prospects of their projects being licensed to enable planning to proceed and to avoid delays in starting.

The right hon. Gentleman cannot have read what I said in column 149 of the OFFICIAL REPORT of the proceedings in Standing Committee E on 27th January. I think that I went as far as his hon. Friends wanted me to go and satisfied even them.

When communicating with the industry, will the Minister also make clear to it the present position about alterations, concerning which the Opposition made a welcome but Ministerially unforeseen alteration last week?

I do not know whether I should be in order in speaking about what took place in Standing Committee last week, except to say that that was carried by a majority of one from Ulster in the morning while we had 5,000 votes of confidence the same night.

We must confine our Answers to the Questions on the Order Paper, not other matters. I am not even sure whether the Minister was in order in his first Answer.

Does not the Minister realise that there is a real problem of stop-go in architects' offices that is causing considerable anxiety to a number of very responsible professional men?

I did realise that and I was not trying to be flippant when I referred to my statement of last week, which indicates the settlement which I have made with the industry. I have taken a great deal of professional advice about this. I feel sure that the industry will be completely reassured by what I said last Thursday, as I hope he will be.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what steps he is taking to encourage the production and use of artificial lightweight aggregates made of waste slate, coalmining shale, pulverised fuel ash, brick clay, and similar materials.

As the Answer is rather long, I am writing to the hon. Lady.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I cannot comment on an Answer I have not seen? Will he, however, bear in mind that the National Plan looks forward to a production of something like 140 million cubic yards by 1970? Will he, therefore, give the production of lightweight aggregates every support?

I will give it as much support as I can. As to not being able to comment on something which she has not seen, I thought that my hon. Friend was after information and not conversation.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what steps he is taking to ensure that the Building Regulations can be easily and rapidly amended where such amendment is justified.

Before making Regulations, or amendments to them, my right hon. Friend is required by Section 9 of the Public Health Act, 1961, to consult interested bodies and the Building Regulations Advisory Committee.

In thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I point out to him that local authorities are experiencing difficulty in interpretation? Will he consider the issuing of explanatory memoranda?

That has already been done.

As the Minister was able to make certain minor amendments on 23rd December to those coming in on 1st February, does he not accept that it should be easy to speed this up quite considerably?

My right hon. Friend has taken steps to ensure that that happens.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works (1) how many bricks were produced in 1965; and how this figure compares with the target of 8,400 million bricks which he set for the brickmaking industry for the year;

Brick production in 1965 was about 7,900 million. I have indicated publicly my view that some 8,000 million bricks will be used in 1966.

Will the Minister state, first, what would be the number of bricks in the stockpile at present if his target had been achieved, and, secondly, why he is setting a lower target of bricks for 1966 than he did in 1965? Is it because he expects fewer houses to be built?

Of course, that is not true at all. The target of 8,400 million bricks included a provision of between 200 and 300 million bricks for rebuilding stocks, and we have taken all this into consideration with the present level of stocks.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what are the stocks of bricks accumulated in the country at the latest available date; how many houses these represent; and what advice he is giving to brick-makers as to expansion of their productive capacity.

At the end of December, 1965, stocks were 550 million, equal to about 21 days' average usage. These do not by themselves represent any houses at all.

Can the right hon. Gentleman answer the last part of my Question? What advice is he giving to brickmakers about their capacity, in the light of the restricted building targets which his right hon. Friend is now laying down?

There is no restriction on building work. After all, the housing performance was up on the previous year. The National Plan calls for over 9,000 million bricks a year by 1970, and it may well be that these stocks may be mopped up in the resurgence of building when the better weather comes. I would remind the right hon. Gentleman that two years ago stocks were running at 900 million, very much higher than this. It is not true that this is an all-time high level.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he is aware that large stocks of bricks have accumulated at the brickworks at and near to Fletton; and what steps he is taking to ensure that these bricks will be used for building the houses, schools and hospitals which are needed.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what plans he has to absorb the growing surplus of bricks being produced as a result of his policy of stepping up production.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works why he appealed to the brick-making industry on 10th November, 1964, to install new kilns and step up the production of bricks by between 8 per cent. and 10 per cent.; what was the stockpile of bricks on that date; what is the stockpile today; and on what date Her Majesty's Government decided to reduce the expected completion of housing in 1965 from approximately 430,000 to approximately 382,000.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what is the extent of the current stockpile of bricks; and how much of the reserve supply has accumulated owing to adverse weather conditions.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what plans he has to provide that the national stockpile of 500 million bricks will be used for building houses.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he is aware of the large stockpile of bricks at the premises of a Tunbridge Wells company, of which he has been informed; and what plans he has for reducing the national stockpile.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works if he will give details of the guarantee which he has given to the representatives of the National Federation of Claymakers that existing stocks of bricks will be cleared before the spring.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what representations he has received from the National Federation of Clay Industries about brick stocks; what action he will take; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what plans he has for further discussions with brick manufacturers regarding future output in view of the fact that brick stocks are well above normal reserves and that a well-equipped works has been compelled to close for at least three months because of the lack of storage space.

After my meeting with representatives of the National Federation of Clay Industries on 18th January I issued a Press statement. I have sent a copy to each of the hon. Members.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for letting me have advance notice, may I ask him whether he is aware that the present stocks of bricks, especially in the important Fletton area, are very much higher than can be accounted for by seasonal factors or by the weather, and are probably due to the decline in private house building as a result of Government policy? Will he persuade his colleagues to rectify that policy so that the builders can get on with the job, and to avoid possible unemployment?

I am afraid that the right hon. and learned Gentleman has not done his homework. He cannot be sure of his facts, because the information I have had from the major Fletton makers is that they are expanding production. Presumably they are not alarmed at the stocks they hold—about 40 million—in or near Fletton, which covers the area to which the right hon. and learned Gentleman refers.

While expressing my thanks, as, I am sure, other hon. Members will, to my right hon. Friend for the memoranda circulated, may I remind him that there is no reference in the memoranda to the latter part of my Question, which refers to the accumulation of these stocks due to adverse weather condtions?

The stockpile of bricks was 550 million at the end of December —as I said, 21 days' supply; but bad weather could probably have accounted for about 200 million.

Would not this stockpile of 550 million have built 30,000 houses? When are the Government going to allow those 30,000 houses to be built?

The total was up last year and will be even higher this year. I would remind the hon. Member—something that apparently has not crossed his mind—that about 40 per cent of bricks are used on building other things than houses. He should consult the National Plan.

Despite what has been said, is it not true that we built more houses last year than ever before and that the targets next year will be even greater? Surely it is preferable to have a great supply of bricks than a scarcity, such as we had a year or two ago? Would my right hon. Friend give some reassurance to the industry, because it has great hopes that under this Government it will build more houses, that when the housing drive gets under way this stockpile of bricks will be required?

There are serious problems of imbalance in the industry itself. I cannot hope to resolve all those problems in what is, after all, a private enterprise industry. This is a matter which the industry must put right by itself. However, I did notice, for instance, that The Builder of 21st January reported the Chairman of Redland Holdings Limited as saying:

"We have shown our absolute confidence in the future by resolutely refusing to cancel or postpone the building of this second kiln, and this is our complete answer to the pessimists and doubters."

Has the right hon. Gentleman included in his own homework the fact that Knowle brickworks, one of the oldest brickworks in the Birmingham area, closed down on 7th January due to shortage of storage?

Actually, the all-time record of closures was in the last year of the Conservative Administration, when no fewer than 24 firms closed down; in 1964 there were 24 closures. We are very much on the better side. But there are all sorts of reasons for firms in the brick industry to close down. Sometimes a source of clay is exhausted; and sometimes the works become uneconomic. If he looks at the figures of this industry since 1945, as I have, the right hon. Gentleman will find that there is a continual change within the industry itself. I would have to give him a dissertation on the build-up of the industry itself to answer all the questions and put them in perspective. The question of one isolated firm closing down does not explain the situation.

The right hon. Gentleman said that bricks are used for other things than houses. Could he, then, exercise his influence particularly in the South-East, to see that there is a greater expansion of school building and other types of building like that which are very much needed in the area and which would very much help to reduce the stockpile of the bricks we are discussing?

I am not responsible for the building of schools. I have a great deal of sympathy with the hon. Member, having lived in the same county for a great number of years. I have also been a member of the Kent Education Committee in my time.

Is it not extraordinary that, although production fell short of the Minister's target by 600 million, there was an over-stocking of 550 million? Is not that really ludicrous forecasting? Can the right hon. Gentleman give a list of those brick firms which have closed down, and of the redundancies, and the reasons—not just such reasons as exhaustion of a deposit, but the real reasons?

I did not give any guarantee to the brick industry—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh, yes."]—no. It was an agreed target at the time. Neither the hon. Gentleman nor I have any control over the weather. We have to look at the figures for the brick industry. These were ghastly shortages that we inherited—not three days' supply; and we had questions all round the place, from all parts of the House, as to when there were going to be supplies of bricks. I negotiated in good faith with the industry at the time on the best facts at my disposal. I want to make this perfectly clear. Neither this industry nor any other can be insulated against the measures taken for the general health of the economy.

Does it occur to my right hon. Friend that, for the second time, the Conservative Opposition is trying to arouse some feeling of uncertainty in the industry as a whole, although it appears from the Secretary of the Building Societies Association that he anticipates that advances next year for new houses will be an all-time record?

As a matter of fact, the building societies tell us that both November and December were record months. I can only tell the House that one of the great problems that I have had as the Minister is to try and blot out the long memory that they have of their treatment by hon. Gentlemen opposite.

The right hon. Gentleman says that he gave no guarantee to the industry, but does he not recall that on 20th November, 1964, he did exactly that, when he gave them a guarantee that every brick produced in the next four years would be used? Can he now answer the question which has been asked three times already and tell the House whether or not he is now asking the industry to increase its productive capacity further?

The right hon. Gentleman has given the answer to his question. The four years are not yet up. I said "over a period of four years", which is reasonable. Just as the Government cannot complete the whole of their legislative programme in 15 months, he cannot expect the house building target of 500,000 to be reached before 1970. I might point out that right hon. and hon. Members on the other side never promised any more than 400,000, and they said "as soon as possible after 1964". That is what the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph) said at the Conservative Party conference. I think that right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite would very much like the public at large to forget what happened during their Administration. The fact that people remember was exemplified at Kingston upon Hull, North last Thursday.

Order. The answers are getting too long.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works when he proposes to hold the inquiry into that part of the Whitehall Plan which relates to the redevelopment of the west side of Parliament Square known as Broad Sanctuary; whether the buildings on both sides of Princes Street will be included in the inquiry; what form the inquiry will take; and what will be its terms of reference.

"Princes Street", it says in the Question. I think it is still Storey's Gate. I have been over the territory. I am in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government about the arrangements for holding a public inquiry on his direction, into the future of the area bounded by Parliament Square, Broad Sanctuary, Princes Street and Great George Street. I hope it will shortly be possible to announce the name of the person who will be appointed to hold the inquiry, together with the terms of reference, the firm scope and other particulars of the inquiry. I hope this can be held in the late spring of this year.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his Answer will give wide satisfaction to those who felt that this was a matter which really did need to be inquired into, and that although it does not cover all aspects of the plan it does cover some of the most important ones? May I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he will just clarify one point? Perhaps I was wrong in describing it as Princes Street, but he knows the street I mean. Will the inquiry include the houses of both sides of that street?

I have a map in front of me. It will not go towards the direction of Old Queen Street. It will be bounded by Storey's Gate, which the right hon. Gentleman calls Princes Street.

It will includes the houses on the opposite side of the street—that is to say, the same side as Central Hall, Westminster? All those houses?

Yes. I only want to make clear, on the previous matter, that we attach a very great deal of importance to this inquiry, because the scope of the Martin and Buchanan proposals was so wide that this may well be a precedent for others.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what was the increase in productivity in the construction industry in each of the four quarters of 1965; and how gross productivity for the year compares with 1964.

There is no Productivity Index for Construction, but figures for the average output per operative, after correcting for price changes, are available for the first three-quarters of 1965. Ii was about 3 per cent higher than the average for 1964.

While thanking my hon. Friend for his reply, I am rather disappointed that we do not have the figures for the last quarter of 1965, bearing in mind that there was an overall percentage increase in production in the industry in 1964 and a blank for the final quarter of 1964. Does not that further heavily underline the necessity for the intensification of winter building methods to maintain an increasing, continuous flow of production throughout the year?

Indeed, yes, I cannot understand why 100 per cent. of builders do not realise that winter building pays and is in the national interest.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what is the reason for the shortage of galvanised tube for building purposes.

My right hon. Friend has received no complaints of serious shortages of galvanised tube, although delivery periods have been longer than is desirable. Production is increasing and the delivery periods should get shorter.

As this is holding up factory building in my constituency needed for the export trade, will the Minister look at the details if I send them to him?

Certainly, Sir.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what progress has been made with the arrangements for a memorial to the late Sir Winston Churchill within the Palace of Westminster.

The Committee appointed to advise on the memorial, of which my right hon. Friend was Chairman, has recommended that the memorial should take the form of a statue in bronze on the vacant plinth by the Churchill Arch in the Members' Lobby, and that the sculptor should be Mr. Oscar Nemon.

May we assume that the arrangements for the letter racks in the Members' Lobby satisfy the officials who have to operate them? Secondly, can my right hon. Friend say whether the suggestion that was made in the course of the Committee's proceedings that some facilities should be provided in the House for a Churchill Room are now under consideration?

Taking the latter part of the question, that has been referred to the special Committee that now looks after these matters in the House. It would be for it to look into that. On my right hon. Friend's earlier point about the letter racks, I have looked into this myself. It is proposed to divide the letter racks in the Members' Lobby to get them away from the plinth and so allow an unrestricted view of the statue. We are keeping this very much under consideration.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House what the cost of the statue will be?

I am not in a position to say that at the moment.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works why he placed the £154,000 contract for the new Post Office Savings Bank at Glasgow with Terrapin Limited, Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, without giving Scottish firms the right to tender.

One of the three firms invited to tender for this specialist work was Scottish.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the most reputable firms in Lanarkshire and Glasgow did not have this opportunity, and, as they could have provided jobs for all classes of people from designers to labourers, will he ensure that in future such suitable building firms are given an opportunity to tender for this type of public work?

I can assure my hon. Friend that Scottish contractors are invariably included in the selected list of tenderers for projects in Scotland, and I can reassure him that the particular contract to which he refers will have no effect whatsoever on the placing of the very much larger main contract for the permanent Post Office building.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works when the present rebuilding of the Royal Marine Barracks, Stonehouse, Plymouth, will be completed; and if he will reconstruct the dining hall and the galley for the Royal Marines.

The present rebuilding scheme will be substantially completed by the end of this year and the outstanding items should be finished by the middle of next year. The possible addition of a new Marines' dining hall and galley is now being considered.

While the present building is satisfactory as far as it has gone, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to remember in future that the Royal Marines are not a race of pygmies? If he cares to examine the bathrooms and other accommodation in the new sergeant's mess, he will see that they are for very small people indeed. Will he bear in mind in future reconstruction that that is so and should be catered for by the architect?

I visited the training school at Lympstone recently and I was impressed by the size, good morale and personal bearing of the Royal Marines I met there.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will now take steps to regulate the siting of oil fuel storage tanks for greater public safety as recommended by the Building Regulations Advisory Committee in its first Report to Her Majesty's Government.

New statutory powers are required in this as in other fields of building.

Could the hon. Gentleman offer some indication as to when they are likely to see the light of day? I would remind him that I have been pressing this need for some time and it is of great concern to the owners of neighbouring properties.

These are being very actively considered but, in relation to the oil interests, the industry itself has not been quite as smart as it might have been.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will introduce into the Building Regulations 1965 a system of blanket waiver, whereby new products can more simply achieve national acceptance and so avoid the delay under the present system, where authorisation of a new product is to be sought for a specific project.

A system of blanket waivers is not possible under present legislation. The powers in Section 6 of the Public Health Act, 1961, to dispense with or relax Building Regulations are exercisable only in relation to particular cases. A particular case may, however, include a number of separate buildings put forward in a single application.

Does the Minister realise that oak panelling in a room similar to this Chamber would have to have a special waiver, and does he further realise that if the oak panelling were the front of a cupboard in which books were stored it would not need a special waiver for fire risks? Does he not agree that it is quite absurd and will he not take powers to have a special waiver procedure?

This is being considered in relation to the new legislation which is some time off. If there is any fault in the existing Regulations, the onus of responsibility lies very much on right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what steps he is taking to overcome the delay which is at present being experienced in testing the fire resistant properties of new building products.

I am in touch with my colleagues at the Ministry of Technology. We are together considering what steps can be taken to expedite testing and increase testing and experimental facilities.

When the hon. Gentleman blames those on this side for not relaxing the Regulations, will he not be honest and admit that when the Labour Government took over they failed to have proper consultations over fire risks? Is not that the cause of the trouble?

No, Sir. On this particular occasion, I have been personally to the Fire Research Station to investigate the problem that was left to us.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what steps he is taking to encourage the recruitment of apprentices and investment in laboursaving plant in the building industry.

As to apprentices—improving welfare facilities, shortening the length of apprenticeship, better training and career prospects—which are mainly the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour.

Would not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that by far the best encouragement for these things is to get a state of confidence back into the building industry? Is he not alarmed at the latest state of trade inquiries announced by the National Federation of Building Trades Employers which show that a very large proportion of firms expect to carry out less work next year than this year?

We are doing very well in encouraging confidence in the building industry.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if she will exempt students over 18 years of age in full-time education from liability for National Insurance contributions; and whether she will make a statement.

These students are not required to pay contributions, except when they work for an employer.

Will my hon. Friend consider crediting these students with insurance contributions, as it bears very hardly on them when they start work at 24 or 25 and they have either to accept lower National Insurance benefits, or pay instalments, at a time when all their income is required to make ends meet?

I am aware of certain difficulties facing students, but when considering their position we must also consider other sections of the population. Ordinary school-leavers are not eligible for benefits until they have paid sufficient qualifying contributions. Spinsters who have stayed at home looking after aged parents, persons who have been abroad, persons who have been excused liability because of their low incomes, discharged prisoners, and so on, are in a similar position. This is one of the consequences of a contributory scheme with contribution conditions for everybody.

Will my hon. Friend consult his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science with a view to providing that when next students' grants are increased contributions are deducted automatically? This would meet the point raised by my hon. Friend, and would also ensure that the insurance benefits of students were protected.

This is a question which must be placed directly before my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science.

Would not it be a good idea if, now that these contributions are growing, and have done under both Governments, and that what we are paying at 18 is entirely irrelevant to the situation at 65, we could arrive at some formal amount to achieve membership without the amount being subject to these various increases?

As the hon. Gentleman probably knows, and as his right hon. Friend knows, the National Insurance Advisory Committee has considered the position of students on three occasions in the past, and the present regulations are in accordance with the Committee's recommendations.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what representations she has received from university student organisations about their liability for National Insurance contributions; and what replies she has sent.

Representations have been received from the National Union of Students and the Scottish Union of Students that students should be credited with contributions during their period of further education or be allowed to pay a reduced rate of contribution. They have been told that concessions additional to those already made cannot be justified.

In view of the fact that the Government are investigating the future of social security, and that we can soon expect a new Bill dealing with National Insurance, will my hon. Friend look at this again and see what can be done in the matter?

It will be looked at, but I can tell my hon. Friend that my Department has co-operated with the students' unions in the preparation of a guide, which will shortly be issued, which will explain what students can get and what they cannot get now.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if, in view of recent evidence as to the extent of poverty among children, especially in big families, she will take action to increase family allowances.

There is nothing I can usefully add to the reply which my hon. Friend received from the Prime Minister to his Question of 25th January.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the evidence as adduced by this investigation reveals a disgraceful state of affairs so far as big families are concerned? Will she give an assurance that the social security investigation on which the Government are engaged will not omit consideration of this problem so far as it relates to family allowances?

I can readily give that assurance. The evidence which we have had from this study backs up the knowledge of which we had been aware, that for some of the bigger families, particularly those of low wage earners, there is poverty in this country at the present time.

Will the right hon. Lady confirm this if she can, that the Child Poverty Group estimates that 500,000 children in this country at present are living in poverty? Will she confirm that figure, or say what evidence she has as to whether it is correct or not?

It is not possible for me to confirm the figure, but we know that there are a large number of children, the children of low wage earners and the children of unemployed people who are hit by the wage stop, who are in real poverty at the present time.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what is the value of the basic family allowance of 8s. expressed in terms of 1946 prices; and what is the similar comparison in the case of a basic retirement pension for a single person.

In terms of August, 1946, prices the 8s. family allowance in respect of the first qualifying child has a value of 3s. 11d. and the 80s. retirement pension for a single person has a value of 39s. 3d.

I do not think that I need comment on those statistics. It is self-evident from them that there is a great amount of leeway to be made up, and it will be made up only by a Labour Government, and the sooner the better.

Order. We cannot have statements—hon. Members must ask questions.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance how many discretionary additions to the weekly National Assistance allowances were being paid at the end of 1965; what was the average amount of these additions; what percentage of those getting regular weekly allowances were also qualifying for a discretionary addition; and what were the corresponding figures for the end of 1964.

It is regretted that the information asked for is not yet available for the end of 1965. At the end of 1964 discretionary additions were being made in about 1,095,000 weekly allowances out of a total of 1,961,000 allowances then in payment. The average amount of the additions in the cases in which they were made was 9s. 6d. per week and the percentage of those getting regular weekly allowances who received discretionary additions was 55·9.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that information, but has he sufficient up-to-date information to show that the valuable discretion which the Board has to give additional payments for special needs has not been devalued by the welcome increase in the basic National Assistance scales?

I have not got the information yet. Obviously we cannot get that information until the 1965 figures for discretionary additions are available. They are expected to be available in about a week.

Has the hon. Gentleman a reasonable belief that the number of weekly allowances has increased or decreased over the past year?

Again, it is impossible to tell until we receive the 1965 figures.

asked the Minister of Health if he will take steps to empower local authorities and hospital boards to appoint general practitioners to their service on a salaried basis.

These authorities are already able to appoint general practitioners to part-time salaried posts for their own services.

I appreciate that, but will my right hon. Friend consider—this was the implication of the Question—empowering local authorities and hospital authorities to appoint full-time general practitioners, particularly bearing in mind the growing and renewed interest in the establishment of health centre networks in various parts of the country?

Arrangements can already be made for general practitioners to work in close association with local health services through health centres, but if my hon. Friend has in mind the possibility of legislation empowering local authorities to provide general medical services, I must tell him that I do not think that this would be appropriate in the present circumstances.

asked the Minister of Health why his Department decided not to issue a further motor-tricycle to Mr. Peter Penketh of St. Helens; and if he is satisfied that the action taken is justified in the special circumstances.

Mr. Penketh has had the use of eight tricycles in the last three years; all have been damaged or neglected. I regret that my right hon. Friend cannot agree to issue another one.

Is my hon. Friend aware that his Department has deprived a young man who can hardly use his legs to get to and from work of an invalid machine which is the only means by which he can do the journey with any comfort at all? Is my hon. Friend further aware that by taking away this machine he and his Department have deprived this young man of his only pleasure in life? Will my hon. Friend look at this again in view of the fact that a lot of these old machines to which he refers are in a dilapidated condition when they are sent out to invalids? Will he not close this case at this juncture, and will he look at this again? I shall give him all the assistance that I can to help to bring light back to this young man's life.

I should very much like to do what my hon. Friend asks, but I assure the House that this decision was not taken lightly. The machines which this man had were not old ones. In fact two of the tricycles—one of which was only a year old—were so badly damaged that they had to be scrapped, and he had six other vehicles. We have incurred a lot of heavy cost in this. Although this machine was withdrawn in July, this young man has not lost any time at all away from work. It is a case which I much regret, but I am afraid that we cannot possibly think of issuing him with another tricycle.

asked the Minister of Health if he is satisfied that corned beef originating from Establishment 1819 in the Argentine, which was originally suspect as a hazard to health and has since been reprocessed in accordance with the recommendations of the Milne Committee, can now be safely released for sale to the public; and if he will make a statement.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield, West (Mr. Lomas) on 26th January, 1966, by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

Can the Minister confirm that following the discovery that some of the Establishment 1819 corned beef was suspect, those companies holding stocks were told by his Department that the product would be all right provided it was reprocessed? Why did the Prime Minister intervene to prevent the sale of one particular consignment of stocks? Would it not have been more consistent for the Government to have banned all sales of stocks? Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that in matters of public health there should be some consistency?

The fact is that not only matters of public health but matters of commercial practice were involved. That is a subject for which my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture is responsible, and he has, I think, explained to the House why those stocks have been withdrawn by the holders of the consignment concerned.

In view of the disastrous effects which imported corned beef has had recently on the national health, will the Minister specify clearly and particularly what scientific steps he takes to satisfy himself that imported corned beef is fit for human consumption?

Without accepting the premises on which my hon. and learned Friend's supplementary question was based, I can assure him that every reasonable step is taken to ensure the safety of imported meat, and we have recently reviewed, and so has my right hon. Friend, the Minister of Agriculture, the arrangements for these imports.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent the training schools for physiotherapists are fully staffed; whether training is available for all suitable applicants; and if he is satisfied that there are sufficient training facilities available to provide the personnel required by the National Health Service.

The schools reported shortages totalling 26 teachers in September but calculations were not on a uniform basis: there are more applicants with the minimum qualifications for training than there are places in schools, but an increase of 10 per cent. in the number of teachers last year was accompanied by an increase in the number of students, which I expect to continue. There are shortages of physiotherapists, but the number employed in hospitals increased last year from 4,009 to 4,098 in whole-time equivalents.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether the Answer to my Question will satisfy the Chartered Society of Physiotherapists? In view of the shortages and difficulties involved in the make-up of a profession supplementary to medicine, has the hon. Gentleman personally consulted the Chartered Society? I ask, because I notice that a Question about the Royal College was answered by the Minister—[interruption.] —and a Question about the Chartered Society by the Parliamentary Secretary. Has he consulted the Chartered Society—[Interruption.]—and if hon. Members go on shouting, I will go on shouting—

Order. The hon. Lady has asked enough. Mr. Loughlin.

The hon. Lady has asked enough but, unfortunately, I did not hear half of it. My reply to her is that whether the Association will agree with my answer is of no consequence to me in this context—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—in this context, because I was not asked that question. I was asked to supply the hon. Lady with information, which I did.

asked the Minister of Health when he expects to receive a report from the working party on hearing aids.

This is an informal advisory body which does not submit formal reports. Suggestions which it makes to me from time to time are carefully considered.

Will the right hon. Gentleman ask this body for urgent advice on a specific problem of which I know he is aware—the provision of hearing aids for those who are unable for various reasons to use the aids provided by the Health Service and who therefore have to pay for these aids because of their particular disability?

I am glad to tell the right hon. Member that this is one of the matters which the working party considered at its last meeting and I am now considering the views it expressed on this matter. I shall, of course, at the same time have to consider relevant priorities between improvements in this respect and improvements elsewhere in the Health Service.

asked the Minister of Health what answer he has given to the Royal College of Nurses on their representations regarding nurse recruitment policy by regional hospital boards; and what action he proposes to take.

I have sent the hon. Member a copy of my letter to the Royal College of Nursing.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his courtesy in this matter. Can he say whether the Royal College is satisfied with his reply, or whether there is still a controversy? Will he publish the letter in the OFFICIAL REPORT, so that everyone can see it?

I will consider the question of publication in the OFFICIAL REPORT. It would, of course, mean consulting the Royal College—

I will do that.

I think that, in the circumstances, it might be better if I consulted the Royal College rather than that the hon. Lady should do so. I think that the Royal College letter was written under something of a misapprehension, and I tried—I hope successfully—to put the matter in perspective in my reply, and the Royal College accepts it. I was able to point out that in September hospital nursing staff reached a figure of over 232,000, including almost 56,000 student nurses and over 11,000 pupil nurses, and all of these figures are the highest ever.

Can my right hon. Friend say how those figures compare with the recruitment figures immediately after the callous treatment of the nurses' salary claim under the previous Administration?

I think that the answer to my hon. Friend is "favourably".

Can the Minister say how many regional hospital boards have enough nurses to meet all requirements?

How many nurses are necessary to meet all requirements is really a matter of subjective evaluation, but if the right hon. Gentleman wants any information about a particular regional hospital board, and what its vacancies or shortages are, I shall be glad to try to answer him.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has considered the representations made to him by the hon. Member for St. Marylebone on behalf of the Hospital Junior Staff Action Group; what action he will take and whether he will make a statement.

I wrote to the right hon. and learned Member on 23rd December last explaining the methods of consultation with hospital staff and the help given in hospitals to junior doctors in preparing for higher qualifications.

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the representations were to the effect that in studying for higher degrees some of these young people were actually driven to National Assistance. As they have complained that the Ministry does not fully recognise the necessity for time off for studying for higher degrees, and that higher degrees are necessary for consultant status, will the right hon. Gentleman keep this matter under his own personal consideration, and give it favourable attention?

It has been considered by me personally. I am aware that there are certain difficulties here, but the views expressed by the right hon. and learned Gentleman were those of the Action Group, and I explained to him that whilst I will always consider any views they express I cannot negotiate with them, because I can negotiate only with the recognised bodies representing the profession.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has completed the review of pay-bed policy; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. I am asking hospital boards to review the number of pay beds in their hospitals and, where necessary, to submit revised proposals designed to bring the relationship between provision and demand more closely into line with that which obtains for other hospital beds. This is one of a number of measures I propose to take which I have discussed with the Joint Consultants Committee, and which are designed to promote the more effective use of consultant manpower and hospital beds. As the details are rather long I am circulating them in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Does my right hon. Friend assume that this review will be quick and that it will avoid queue-jumping? Can he say what effect this will have on the employment of whole-time con- sultants? For example, is it obligatory on regional hospital boards to offer part-time or whole-time appointments to consultants? And what will happen about amenity beds?

I hope that this review will be reasonably speedy. As to my hon. Friend's second supplementary question, I think that there is some misunderstanding that a hospital board is obliged in all circumstances to offer an option of a full-time or a maximum part-time appointment. This is not the case, and I am calling the attention of the boards to the fact that they have always been able to advertise their whole-time appointments if that is what they decide is required. I am considering how best hospitals can further publicise the existence of amenity beds.

Can the Minister say why it is that Socialist Members always seem to think that it is a crime that anyone able to pay for health services should do so if they wish?

Queue-jumping.

What concerns some of my hon. Friends, and certainly concerns me, is that people should not, because they are able to pay, be able to get treatment more quickly than those who do not pay.

asked the Minister of Health what arrangements exist to meet the cost of medical treatment in cases where a general practitioner recommends hospital care but no bed in a local hospital is available.

Patients requiring admission urgently on medical grounds can usually be admitted without delay. I have no power to meet the cost of treatment arranged privately.

In the case of old people who may be acutely ill and have to be admitted but where a hospital bed is not available, is it the Minister's view that the cost of the treatment should fall on friends or relations who may be ill able to afford it?

No, Sir. This I hope would never happen. The right hon. Member's Question referred to a local hospital. It is sometimes possible, if one cannot get admission to a local hospital immediately, to get admission to a rather more distant hospital. If there is a particular case the right hon. Member has in mind, I shall be glad if he will give me details and I will look into it.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will take steps to encourage employers in the private sector to end sex discrimination in pay rates.

My right hon. Friend has received the report of the Inter-Departmental Working Party on Equal Pay which he set up last year. The principle of equal pay is not in question, but its implementation raises important issues of timing and methods which need to be examined in consultation with industry. He proposes shortly to invite the T.U.C. and the Confederation of British Industry to discuss these matters with him.

I thank my hon. Friend for that Answer. Can he explain the leak in today's Press intimating Government rejection of equal pay on the basis of this Report, for which hon. Members have been pressing for months and which we have not yet received? Will he give encouragement to the private sector by recommending that the Government award equal pay to women workers in Government industrial establishments?

I cannot accept responsibility for leaks to the Press or for what is in the Press. I repeat that the principle of equal pay is not in question, but its implementation raises difficult problems which my right hon. Friend will be examining in discussions with the T.U.C. and the C.B.I. That is the next essential step in this movement to a desirable objective.

Will the hon. Gentleman be very careful about those dangerous words "discrimination" and "equal", which can beg a lot of questions? Will he bear in mind the Royal Commission on Equal Pay, which went very carefully into this, and reported that the average value of work by men was 30 per cent. greater than that by women and that what we should aim at is equal pay for equal work, not the rate for the job.

These, of course, are all very complicated issues and they will all be taken into account in the discussion which my right hon. Friend will have with both sides of industry.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that the Government's incomes policy is neither fair nor just if it tolerates a system where 10 per cent. only of women are receiving equal pay?

The question of an incomes policy will be only one of many factors taken into account in considering this very complex and important problem.

asked the Minister of Labour what action he has taken in regard to those building trades employers who have forced building operators to become self-employed, thereby circumventing the Redundancy Payments Act.

I would draw the hon. Member's attention to a statement my right hon. Friend issued on 3rd January in the case of a Bournemouth firm. With permission, I will circulate this statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I thank my hon. Friend for that statement. Would he not agree that the attitude of the employers concerned was utterly disgraceful and that the sort of attitude they adopted does not help better relations in the building industry? Will he give an assurance that the strongest possible measures will be taken against any other building employers who take, or try to take, similar steps to avoid redundancy payments?

I deplore the action taken by the building firms in question, although it is only fair to say that overwhelmingly the employers have observed their legal obligations under the Act. I hope that my hon. Friend will closely examine my right hon. Friend's statement. Then he will see that the opposite effect from that expected by the building contractors concerned might take place.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in the light of the youth employment service report, he will establish a training centre for youth employment officers in Scotland, in addition to the existing centres at Lamorbey Park, Sidcup, and the Manchester College of Commerce.

Possible ways of expanding facilities for full-time training of new entrant local authority youth employment officers are at present under consideration by the Youth Employment Service Training Board which, I am sure, will have due regard to the needs of Scotland.

Is there any idea when it will reach a conclusion?

I expect it will reach a conclusion within the next few months.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on his visit to Latin America.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make a statement on the recent visits of himself and the Minister of State to Latin-American countries; and what proposals he has for improving the contacts between these countries and the United Kingdom.

Between 2nd and 14th January I visited Peru, Chile and Argentina. This was the first visit of a British Foreign Secretary to Latin America.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his visit was welcomed by all those who desire to improve relations between this country and Latin America? Has he, however, any statement to make on the cancellation of the Mantaro contract?

I am obliged to my hon. Friend for the first part of his Question. On the second part, I discussed this contract with President Belaúnde in Lima in view of its general importance, but my hon. Friend will realise that it has always been a matter for the Peruvian Government to decide on the basis of the information and advice available to them. They have decided to exercise their right to cancel the existing contract with the Anglo-German consortium, which is in my judgment most disappointing news. I do not think I should make further comment on this point, although there will be aspects of it in which Her Majesty's Government will be concerned.

In view of the desirability that the House and the country should be kept informed of progress in these developing relations between our country and Latin America, will the Foreign Secretary arrange for a statement to be published in HANSARD of the aid, direct and indirect, we are at present giving to those countries and any projects the Government have for developing that assistance?

I should like to see if that is possible, as I think it should be, and I hope to be able to do it.

Will the Secretary of State say whether there were any specific proposals from these countries he visited for improving relations? Could he say what actual practical achievements he hopes to see secured by his welcome visit?

A number of particular proposals were made which we are now examining and which will result in further discussions with the countries concerned. Since my return I have been in contact with British businessmen particularly interested in this trade and I believe it is entirely reasonable to expect that we shall see an increase of trade between this country and Latin America.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (1) to what extent the British Police Advisory Mission in Vietnam has been engaged in interrogating prisoners;

Members of the British Advisory Mission are not concerned with the direct enforcement of law and order anywhere in South Vietnam, nor have they been engaged in interrogating prisoners.

Would the Foreign Secretary tell us exactly what these police officials are doing there? In view of the great increase in violent crime in this country, can he tell us why the British taxpayer should provide police missions for Saigon?

The mission, as its name implies, is engaged in advisory functions and not in the direct enforcement of police work. The main fields in which it has been engaged in the last year are such matters as the organisation of training schools, not units, a marine branch of the police, and advising on measures of defence against terrorism. One of the police advisers occasionally lectures to the National Interrogation Centre. I believe that these men are helping in a field which will be vital if order and peaceful life are to be restored in this unhappy country.